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| 09:02 |
ian1 |
Good morning all. I'm having trouble with my initial installation of Evergreen. I'm following the instructions here: https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/install/README_3_11.html and I'm nearly done. Is anyone available to help me troubleshoot? I can provide more detail of course, but I don't want to bloat the chat before anyone responds. I'm on step 13. |
| 09:02 |
Dyrcona |
ian1: What happens when you start Evergreen? |
| 09:03 |
* redavis |
listens (with my eyes) |
| 09:04 |
ian1 |
Here's the command and the error message: |
| 09:04 |
ian1 |
opensrf ian:~$ osrf_control -l --start-all |
| 09:04 |
ian1 |
Use of uninitialized value $@ in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/local/share/perl/5.34.0/OpenSRF/Transport/SlimJabber/Client.pm line 162. |
| 09:04 |
ian1 |
Exception: OpenSRF::EX::Jabber 2024-07-09T12:58:51 OpenSRF::Transport::SlimJabber::Client /usr/local/share/perl/5.34.0/OpenSRF/Transport/SlimJabber/Client.pm:162 Jabber Exception: Could not authenticate with Jabber server: |
| 09:06 |
Dyrcona |
ian1: After you install Evergreen, you have to updated the jabber passwords in the opensrf_core.xml file again. |
| 09:07 |
ian1 |
I updated them when prompted, but not since |
| 09:07 |
Dyrcona |
It's in the paragraph in Step 11, below the sample copy commands. |
| 09:08 |
Dyrcona |
You have to edit the new opensrf_core.xml like you did for OpenSRF. |
| 09:08 |
ian1 |
Ill take a look. |
| 09:40 |
Dyrcona |
ian1: How's it gonig? Are things working now? |
| 09:55 |
ian1 |
Well that part moved along. Am I understanding correctly that the Evergreen installation overwrote `opensrf_core.xml` after I had set it up during the opensrf setup? |
| 09:59 |
JBoyer |
ian1: It overwrote opensrf_core.example, which needs to be re-copied to plain opensrf_core.xml and updated again. |
| 10:00 |
JBoyer |
opensrf comes with a very barebones core config and Evergreen comes with a more fully defined one that it needs to find all of its parts. |
| 10:00 |
ian1 |
Got it |
| 10:00 |
JBoyer |
This is related to opensrf being a separate project (though there's been talk of that ending in the future) |
| 10:01 |
ian1 |
Now I'm getting errors when i run autogen |
| 10:01 |
JBoyer |
try osrf_control -l --diagnostic to see if everything is still running. |
| 10:02 |
JBoyer |
autogen failing is usually an issue with opensrf.xml or a problem with some of the database services |
| 10:02 |
ian1 |
That gives me a bunch of messages that look like this: |
| 10:02 |
ian1 |
* ERR open-ils.acq Has PID file entry [4031], which matches no running open-ils.acq processes |
| 10:02 |
ian1 |
* ERR open-ils.actor Has PID file entry [4079], which matches no running open-ils.actor processes |
| 10:03 |
JBoyer |
you may need to use --stop-all and if diagnostic still says that there's --kill-with-fire which will remove all opensrf processes |
| 10:03 |
Dyrcona |
Sorry. Phone call. JBoyer++ |
| 10:04 |
ian1 |
I restarted it and tried autogen again: |
| 10:04 |
ian1 |
Exception: OpenSRF::EX::Session 2024-07-09T14:04:14 OpenSRF::Transport /usr/local/share/perl/5.34.0/OpenSRF/Transport.pm:83 Session Error: routerprivate.localhost/open-ils.cstore IS NOT CONNECTED TO THE NETWORK!!! |
| 10:05 |
Dyrcona |
ian1: Did you run eg_db_config? |
| 10:06 |
Dyrcona |
https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/install/README_3_11.html#_creating_the_evergreen_database_and_schema |
| 10:06 |
ian1 |
I did that yesterday |
| 10:06 |
JBoyer |
Thinking about this there is kind of an assumption at some points in the install that the db is already there. :/ |
| 10:06 |
Dyrcona |
I'd do it again and make sure that the settings are correct. |
| 10:07 |
ian1 |
What settings? |
| 10:08 |
Dyrcona |
ian1: The options to eg_db_config, particularly: --user, --hostname, --password, --port, --database. |
| 10:08 |
ian1 |
Can I ask why you are lead to think its this particular step? |
| 10:08 |
Dyrcona |
You can also skip building the database if you just need to update opensrf.xml. Oh1 You did copy the new opensrf.xml.example to opensrf.xml in /openils/conf. |
| 10:09 |
Dyrcona |
ian1: This right here: routerprivate.localhost/open-ils.cstore IS NOT CONNECTED TO THE NETWORK!!! |
| 10:09 |
Dyrcona |
cstore reads the database settings from opensrf.xml. They (can) get set by eg_db_config. |
| 10:10 |
Dyrcona |
The #1 reason cstore is not connected on a new install is missing/bad database connections. Number 2 is you need to run ldconfig as root. |
| 10:10 |
ian1 |
I did copy the new example. |
| 10:11 |
Dyrcona |
OK. Can you connect to the database with psql? |
| 10:11 |
ian1 |
How would I check? |
| 10:11 |
Dyrcona |
run: psql -U {username} -h localhost |
| 10:12 |
Dyrcona |
where {username} is the database user that you set up for evergreen. (It works best if that user is named evergreen.) |
| 10:14 |
ian1 |
Looks like youre onto something: |
| 10:14 |
ian1 |
psql: connection to server at "localhost" (127.0.0.1), port 5432 failed: FATAL: database "evergreen" does not exist |
| 10:15 |
Dyrcona |
OK. run eg_db_config again. |
| 10:15 |
ian1 |
Which is fun because it definitely took up most of the allocated storage on my virtual machine. =D |
| 10:15 |
Dyrcona |
I usually use 25GB and it's OK. |
| 10:19 |
ian1 |
running now |
| 10:20 |
Dyrcona |
ian1: Do you mind pasting the command line you used? |
| 10:21 |
ian1 |
perl Open-ILS/src/support-scripts/eg_db_config --update-config --service all --create-database --create-schema --create-offline --user evergreen --password ******* --hostname localhost --port 5432 --database everdb --admin-user evergreen --admin-pass ********* |
| 10:22 |
Dyrcona |
Two suggestions: 1. if there is no other database on here, name the database "evergreen" it will save you issues with psql. |
| 10:23 |
Dyrcona |
2. Set the --admin-usr to "admin" and the --admin-pass to "demo123". This way, you can run the automated tests and they will just work. |
| 10:23 |
ian1 |
I can just run it again right? |
| 10:23 |
Dyrcona |
I guess a third suggestion: Add --load-all-sample to get some sample data in the database, unless you intend to build your data from scratch. |
| 10:24 |
Dyrcona |
You can, but I'd drop everdb, first : psql -U evergreen -h localhost -d postgres -c 'drop database everdb;' |
| 10:26 |
ian1 |
round x |
| 10:27 |
Dyrcona |
I don't remember how many times it took me to get a working test installation the first time. I still mess things up now and then when I build a new vm for testing. There are also scripts and docker images out there to make the setup easier. |
| 10:27 |
Dyrcona |
It's because we've all made the same mistakes that we're able to help. :) |
| 10:28 |
Dyrcona |
Also, if you can think of better ways to word the instructions, please do make suggestions/open bugs on Launchpad. |
| 10:29 |
ian1 |
I'm planning to attend DIG meetings at a minimum. May look for other ways to get involved as well. I love a clean well formatted document. So I ran the db config again. |
| 10:30 |
ian1 |
should I try to start it up again with: `osrf_control -l --start-all` and `autogen.sh` |
| 10:31 |
Dyrcona |
Just to make sure, run `osrf_control -l --stop-all` then those two. |
| 10:32 |
ian1 |
Same issue essentially: |
| 10:32 |
ian1 |
opensrfian:/openils/bin$ ./autogen.sh |
| 10:32 |
ian1 |
Updating Evergreen organization tree and IDL |
| 10:32 |
ian1 |
Updating fieldmapper |
| 10:32 |
ian1 |
-> /openils/var/web/opac/common/js/fmall.js |
| 10:32 |
ian1 |
Updating web_fieldmapper |
| 10:33 |
ian1 |
-> /openils/var/web/opac/common/js/fmcore.js |
| 10:33 |
ian1 |
Updating OrgTree |
| 10:33 |
ian1 |
Exception: OpenSRF::EX::Session 2024-07-09T14:32:29 OpenSRF::Transport /usr/local/share/perl/5.34.0/OpenSRF/Transport.pm:83 Session Error: routerprivate.localhost/open-ils.cstore IS NOT CONNECTED TO THE NETWORK!!! |
| 10:33 |
Dyrcona |
OK, run `osrf_control -l --diagnostic | less` and scroll through the output to see what is an isn't connected. |
| 10:34 |
Dyrcona |
List those things that are not running in the channel. |
| 10:34 |
* Dyrcona |
tries to figure out how to do git format-patch on two directories.... |
| 10:35 |
ian1 |
from open-ils: auth, auth_internal, cstore, pcrud, qstore, reporter-store and from opensrf: math and dbmath |
| 10:36 |
Dyrcona |
OK, run this: `sudo ldconfig` then `osrf_control -l --stop-all` |
| 10:36 |
Dyrcona |
then try the start-all again. |
| 10:37 |
ian1 |
got it |
| 10:37 |
ian1 |
and then autogen again? |
| 10:37 |
Dyrcona |
Try osrf_control -l --diagnostic |
| 10:37 |
Dyrcona |
Then autogen.sh |
| 10:38 |
ian1 |
Looks like the same problems in the diagnostic |
| 10:38 |
Dyrcona |
So, auth and auth_internal do not use the database, which is why I suggested the ldconfig. |
| 10:39 |
Dyrcona |
Ok, run the stop-all, and then go back to the Evergreen source directory if you're not already there. |
| 10:41 |
ian1 |
Okie doke |
| 10:41 |
ian1 |
done |
| 10:41 |
Dyrcona |
Once you've done that, try running `make clean` |
| 10:41 |
Dyrcona |
Then, do the `sudo make install` , `sudo chown -R opensrf:opensrf /openils ./` steps again. |
| 10:42 |
Dyrcona |
After that, we'll try again with osrf_control -l --start-all |
| 10:44 |
ian1 |
Okay. Started all again |
| 10:44 |
Dyrcona |
What does the diagnostic say this time? |
| 10:44 |
ian1 |
same errors again |
| 10:45 |
Dyrcona |
huh.... |
| 10:45 |
Dyrcona |
At this point, I'm stumped. |
| 10:45 |
Dyrcona |
I'd need to see the configuration files. |
| 10:46 |
Dyrcona |
Did you test OpenSRF before with the math add test from the OpenSRF README? |
| 10:46 |
ian1 |
I did that yesterday and at the time it worked fine |
| 10:46 |
Dyrcona |
So, you have /etc/ld.so.conf.d/opensrf.conf, then.... |
| 10:47 |
Dyrcona |
Is this Ubuntu 24.04? |
| 10:47 |
Dyrcona |
but, no. You'd see messages about the routers not running, too. |
| 10:50 |
Dyrcona |
It looks like you're having an issue with the services written in C, but what we just did should have fixed them. |
| 10:50 |
ian1 |
Im running Ubuntu 22.04.4 LTS, I see ld.so.conf.d, but I dont see a opensrf.conf in the etc directory. |
| 10:50 |
ian1 |
Stepping away for 5 minutes. Brb. Thanks for all the help so far. |
| 10:52 |
Dyrcona |
ian1: try this : `sudo bash -c 'echo /openils/lib > /etc/ld.so.conf.d/opensrf.conf ; ldconfig'` You want the single quotes bu not the backticks for sure. |
| 10:55 |
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| 10:55 |
Dyrcona |
git am is lying to me: error: "templates/opac/course_browse.tt2: does not exist in index" |
| 10:56 |
Dyrcona |
The file is right there: ls templates/opac/course_browse.tt2 -> templates/opac/course_browse.tt2 |
| 10:57 |
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| 11:01 |
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| 11:01 |
ian1 |
I have returned. |
| 11:01 |
Dyrcona |
ian1: did you see what I sent a few minutes ago, just before you left? |
| 11:02 |
ian1 |
which message? |
| 11:02 |
Dyrcona |
try this : `sudo bash -c 'echo /openils/lib > /etc/ld.so.conf.d/opensrf.conf ; ldconfig'` |
| 11:04 |
ian1 |
Is this supposed to be all one command? |
| 11:05 |
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| 11:05 |
Dyrcona |
yeah, everything between ` and ` |
| 11:06 |
Dyrcona |
You want to keep the single quotes |
| 11:06 |
ian1 |
okay. I ran that |
| 11:07 |
Dyrcona |
OK try starting services again. |
| 11:07 |
ian1 |
diagnostic looks good now I think |
| 11:07 |
Dyrcona |
Ok, now autogen.sh |
| 11:08 |
ian1 |
looks much better but I got a permission denied at the end: "./autogen.sh: line 172: /openils/var/web/eg_cache_hash: Permission denied" |
| 11:09 |
Dyrcona |
`sudo chown -R opensrf:opensrf /openils` |
| 11:09 |
ian1 |
Did the ownership of th... yerp I was on my way to ask about that |
| 11:10 |
ian1 |
"Done" |
| 11:10 |
Dyrcona |
do the autogen.sh again. |
| 11:11 |
ian1 |
made it to the end this time |
| 11:12 |
Dyrcona |
ian1++ Congratulations! |
| 11:12 |
Dyrcona |
Now, you should try signing in with the staff client to see if it works. |
| 11:13 |
ian1 |
Hows that? |
| 11:13 |
Dyrcona |
Point a browser at your vm, and see if it works. |
| 11:13 |
ian1 |
What do you mean by point a browser at it? |
| 11:14 |
Dyrcona |
open a browser and navigate to https://{your-vm'shostname or ip address here}/eg/opac/ <- that will get you to the public catalaog, IIRC. |
| 11:18 |
ian1 |
Well it for sure works within the machine on localhost |
| 11:19 |
Dyrcona |
did you set up the websockets? |
| 11:22 |
ian1 |
I believe I did |
| 11:24 |
Dyrcona |
Try going to /eg/staff/ and logging in with the admin-user and admin-password credentials you used in the eg_db_config step. It's good to the JavaScript console open when you do this. |
| 11:27 |
ian1 |
Yup. Login failed with errors in console |
| 11:28 |
Dyrcona |
Something about websockets? |
| 11:28 |
ian1 |
Yes |
| 11:28 |
ian1 |
I can send the errors over, but it seems like you already know. |
| 11:29 |
Dyrcona |
First, check that websockets are running: `pgrep -af websocket` if nothing comes back then they're not running. |
| 11:29 |
ian1 |
Nothin |
| 11:29 |
Dyrcona |
Did you install nginx and set it up as a proxy for Evergreen? |
| 11:30 |
ian1 |
Nope. I skipped all optional steps |
| 11:31 |
Dyrcona |
OK. Go here: https://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/install/OpenSRF/README_3_2_5.html#_websockets_installation_instructions |
| 11:31 |
Dyrcona |
Scroll down to option 2 b. |
| 11:32 |
Dyrcona |
You'll wan to run that command. |
| 11:32 |
Dyrcona |
You want "b. Run websocketd without a proxy" |
| 11:33 |
ian1 |
Okay. done |
| 11:33 |
Dyrcona |
Try logging in again. You may have to reload the page first. |
| 11:34 |
Dyrcona |
You may have to restart apache. |
| 11:34 |
ian1 |
Im into workstation registration now |
| 11:34 |
ian1 |
8-) |
| 11:36 |
Dyrcona |
Cool! It's working. |
| 11:36 |
ian1 |
excellent. Thank you |
| 11:37 |
Dyrcona |
You're most welcome. |
| 11:39 |
* Dyrcona |
fixed the git am issue by using 3-way merge: git am -3 .... Getting the updates into our overrides is another question. :) |
| 11:54 |
mmorgan |
ian1++ |
| 11:54 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona++ |
| 11:56 |
* Dyrcona |
is patching the overrides 1 at a time, and... Hey! Look at that.... Lunch time! |
| 12:47 |
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| 13:15 |
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| 14:04 |
pinesol |
News from commits: LP2045440: Add copy tags url to 852$u in marc_export <https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=99014918fd2b72fb49d29bb76907956194c8ebf7> |
| 14:04 |
pinesol |
News from commits: LP2045440: marc_export Exports Public Copy Tags <https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=c4b363145af8944b704ffd8c6ae6ed29acdb6089> |
| 14:04 |
pinesol |
News from commits: LP2045440: marc_export Exports Public Copy Notes <https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=dee174adbd3ed5f7e676ef387cb9130dfae53fd2> |
| 14:39 |
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| 14:50 |
abneiman |
t-minus 10 mins to dev meeting |
| 14:51 |
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| 14:56 |
JBoyer |
Dyrcona++ #helpin |
| 14:56 |
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| 15:00 |
abneiman |
alrighty we're doing it live |
| 15:00 |
abneiman |
#startmeeting 2024-07-09 Developer Meeting |
| 15:00 |
pinesol |
Meeting started Tue Jul 9 15:00:17 2024 US/Eastern. The chair is abneiman. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 15:00 |
pinesol |
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. |
| 15:00 |
pinesol |
The meeting name has been set to '2024_07_09_developer_meeting' |
| 15:00 |
abneiman |
#info agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=dev:meetings:2024-07-09#new_business |
| 15:00 |
abneiman |
eh, sorry for the jump link. Y'all will figure it out. |
| 15:01 |
abneiman |
#topic Introductions |
| 15:01 |
redavis |
#info redavis = Ruth Frasur Davis, ECDI |
| 15:01 |
abneiman |
who are you all, anyway? Please use format #info, nick, name, affiliation |
| 15:01 |
dluch |
#info dluch = Debbie Luchenbill, MOBIUS |
| 15:01 |
mmorgan |
#info mmorgan = Michele Morgan, NOBLE |
| 15:01 |
phasefx_ |
#info phasefx_ = Jason Etheridge, EOLI |
| 15:01 |
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| 15:01 |
abneiman |
#info abneiman = Andrea Buntz Neiman, EOLI |
| 15:01 |
smayo |
#info smayo = Steven Mayo, PINES |
| 15:01 |
sandbergja |
#info sandbergja = Jane Sandberg, PUL |
| 15:01 |
terranm |
#info terranm = Terran McCanna, PINES |
| 15:01 |
sleary |
#info sleary = Stephanie Leary, EOLI |
| 15:02 |
berick |
#info berick Bill Erickson, KCLS |
| 15:02 |
abneiman |
welcome, all. If you come in late please feel free to introduce yourself! |
| 15:03 |
abneiman |
#topic Action Items from Last Meeting |
| 15:03 |
abneiman |
#info gmcharlt - create a Git commit message type and update bug 2051946 |
| 15:03 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2051946 in Evergreen "institute a Git commit message template" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2051946 - Assigned to Galen Charlton (gmc) |
| 15:03 |
eeevil |
#info eeevil = Mike Rylander, EOLI |
| 15:03 |
abneiman |
I believe this is still pending |
| 15:03 |
Dyrcona |
#info Dyrcona = Jason Stephenson, CWMARS |
| 15:04 |
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| 15:04 |
abneiman |
#info mmorgan will explore moving LP stats to community site and automating same |
| 15:04 |
mmorgan |
Rather than keeping this as a recurring action item, I would like to move this to a launchpad ticket where it can evolve with community input. |
| 15:04 |
JBoyer |
#info JBoyer = Jason Boyer, EOLI |
| 15:04 |
abneiman |
good call, mmorgan |
| 15:04 |
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| 15:04 |
abneiman |
would you like an action item to convert the action item? :) |
| 15:04 |
collum |
#info collum = Garry Collum, kcpl |
| 15:05 |
mmorgan |
Yes! happy to open a ticket |
| 15:05 |
redavis |
mmorgan++ |
| 15:05 |
sleary |
mmorgan++ |
| 15:05 |
abneiman |
#action mmorgan will open a ticket for moving LP stats to community site & automating same |
| 15:05 |
abneiman |
mmorgan++ |
| 15:05 |
abneiman |
next... |
| 15:05 |
abneiman |
#info eeevil will open a bug for cross-column stats targets |
| 15:05 |
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| 15:06 |
abneiman |
eeevil, anything to report? |
| 15:06 |
eeevil |
eventually, yes, I will ... |
| 15:06 |
shulabear |
#info shulabear = Shula Link, GCHRL |
| 15:06 |
abneiman |
noted |
| 15:06 |
abneiman |
#action eeevil will open a bug for cross-column stats targets |
| 15:06 |
abneiman |
oh and ... |
| 15:06 |
abneiman |
#action gmcharlt - create a Git commit message type and update bug 2051946 |
| 15:06 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2051946 in Evergreen "institute a Git commit message template" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2051946 - Assigned to Galen Charlton (gmc) |
| 15:06 |
abneiman |
and because it's that kind of day, back up the agenda to... |
| 15:07 |
abneiman |
#info Dyrcona will take a look at bug 1017990 |
| 15:07 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 1017990 in Evergreen "Possible to bypass holds placement limits via direct API calls" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017990 - Assigned to Jason Stephenson (jstephenson) |
| 15:07 |
Dyrcona |
I haven't really had time, yet. Also does this need to be a meeting item, other than it was brought up here? |
| 15:08 |
abneiman |
nope, it was just on the agenda as an action from last time. Will drop it for next meeting. |
| 15:08 |
abneiman |
#info kmlussier will update wiki (commit message standards) to include details about shared components/pullrequest rule for LP tagging on multi-commits |
| 15:08 |
JBoyer |
It does serve as a reminder to some of us that our branches are broken. (it me, I'm us. er, somehting like that) |
| 15:08 |
abneiman |
#info kmlussier has done this: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=dev:git&do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1712683062&rev2%5B1%5D=1720473693&difftype=sidebyside |
| 15:08 |
abneiman |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:09 |
abneiman |
she notes "I did not update the new devs wiki page on Git for Windows because there are no instructions on the page for modifying the commit message at a later time." |
| 15:09 |
redavis |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:09 |
mmorgan |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:09 |
dluch |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:09 |
shulabear |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:09 |
abneiman |
#info redavis, Dyrcona, abneiman, LindaJansova, EvaCe will investigate and see what it will take to move our translations to POEditor |
| 15:09 |
abneiman |
we did have this meeting! it feels like it was a long time ago. |
| 15:10 |
abneiman |
does someone not-me want to give a quick summary? |
| 15:10 |
Dyrcona |
I think I'm supposed to do something related to that... and it does seem like a long time ago. |
| 15:10 |
redavis |
It does feel like a long time ago. We did walk through POEditor plans and Galen was able to get some new functionality added. |
| 15:11 |
redavis |
Because of the Project's non-profit status, it didn't cost anything. But now, we're looking at what it'll take to make decisions and port stuff (if deemed useful) from Launchpad to POEditor. |
| 15:11 |
scottangel |
#info scottangel = Scott Angel, MOBIUS |
| 15:11 |
abneiman |
redavis++ |
| 15:11 |
sleary |
redavis to clarify, does that mean that we were missing some things that should have been available to us on the open source / non-profit plan we're on? |
| 15:12 |
redavis |
Yes |
| 15:12 |
sleary |
thanks |
| 15:12 |
mmorgan |
redavis++ |
| 15:12 |
redavis |
Hold and I'll bring up what they were. Carry on. |
| 15:12 |
dluch |
redavis++ |
| 15:12 |
sleary |
redavis++ |
| 15:12 |
abneiman |
#info quoting redavis: We did walk through POEditor plans and Galen was able to get some new functionality added. Because of the Project's non-profit status, it didn't cost anything. But now, we're looking at what it'll take to make decisions and port stuff (if deemed useful) from Launchpad to POEditor. |
| 15:12 |
abneiman |
final action item: |
| 15:13 |
abneiman |
#info redavis will look at making a regular calendar event for translation work in lock step with point releases |
| 15:13 |
abneiman |
I believe there was also progress on this, yes? |
| 15:13 |
redavis |
So, I wouldn't say that THAT has been done exactly... |
| 15:13 |
Dyrcona |
We do plan to have extra time for translations in the 3.14 release cycle. |
| 15:13 |
abneiman |
redavis++ Dyrcona++ |
| 15:13 |
redavis |
But we did build some extra time into the next release cycle to accommodate more time for translations and talked about how that might continue for other releases, but it point or major |
| 15:14 |
redavis |
s/but it/be it |
| 15:14 |
Dyrcona |
Regarding POEditor: They turned on GitHub/Gitlab integration for us and are willing to turn on other features according to gmcharlt. |
| 15:15 |
abneiman |
redavis: do you want the action item to carry forward? There is a larger discussion that should continue, but in terms of the calendar event? |
| 15:15 |
Dyrcona |
I think I'm supposed to look into getting the integration to work. |
| 15:15 |
redavis |
Right. GitHub/GitLab integrations, translation memory, history and audit logs. |
| 15:15 |
sleary |
nice! |
| 15:15 |
redavis |
abneiman, I feel wholly unprepared to answer that competently, so I'll say "yes." |
| 15:15 |
abneiman |
Dyrcona: as today's action item fairy, I am ready and able to give you an action for that in this meeting if you wish :-D |
| 15:16 |
abneiman |
#action redavis will look at making a regular calendar event for translation work in lock step with point releases |
| 15:16 |
redavis |
abneiman, I think more than making the regular calendar event, extra time for translation work needs to be added into release cycle procedure. |
| 15:17 |
abneiman |
redavis: both, I think, since we at least make a nominal effort to calendar point releases |
| 15:17 |
redavis |
abneiman++ #truth_has_been_spoken |
| 15:17 |
Dyrcona |
abneiman: That's OK. I'll take an action to look into git integration with POEditor. |
| 15:18 |
abneiman |
#action: Dyrcona will look into git integration with POEditor |
| 15:18 |
abneiman |
Dyrcona++ |
| 15:18 |
abneiman |
anything else from last week's actions? |
| 15:18 |
|
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| 15:18 |
abneiman |
or last month's, even? what is time. |
| 15:18 |
sleary |
Dyrcona++ redavis++ abneiman++ |
| 15:19 |
* redavis |
clarifies that POEditor offers no subscription fee to open source projects - not non-profit. |
| 15:19 |
berick |
Dyrcona++ redavis++ abneiman++ |
| 15:19 |
abneiman |
#info redavis clarifies that POEditor offers no subscription fee to open source projects - not non-profit. |
| 15:19 |
abneiman |
good clarification redavis |
| 15:19 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona++ redavis++ abneiman++ |
| 15:19 |
abneiman |
moving along |
| 15:19 |
abneiman |
#topic Release info |
| 15:20 |
abneiman |
#info two OpenSRF releases! https://evergreen-ils.org/evergreen-and-opensrf-security-releases-evergreen-3-10-5-3-11-6-3-12-4-3-13-1-opensrf-3-2-5-and-3-3-1/ |
| 15:20 |
abneiman |
#info also, Evergreen security releases! https://evergreen-ils.org/evergreen-and-opensrf-security-releases-evergreen-3-10-5-3-11-6-3-12-4-3-13-1-opensrf-3-2-5-and-3-3-1/ |
| 15:20 |
abneiman |
hahaha that's the same link, genius |
| 15:21 |
abneiman |
anyway, ++ to all who helped get those out |
| 15:21 |
dluch |
++ |
| 15:21 |
mmorgan |
Indeed! |
| 15:21 |
abneiman |
as a reminder: |
| 15:21 |
terranm |
everybody++ |
| 15:21 |
abneiman |
#info 3.14 Roadmap is here: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=faqs:evergreen_roadmap - mark your calendars! |
| 15:21 |
abneiman |
and, a ninja edit of the agenda from me, your erstwhile meeting leader ... |
| 15:22 |
abneiman |
#info given that we just did a security release, is there any intent to do a further July point release (for non-security bugfixes) or are we waiting til August? |
| 15:23 |
abneiman |
discuss! |
| 15:23 |
redavis |
If we're adding reminders (I was going to wait until announcements, but will do it now) - there is...as abneiman just stated a scheduled monthly maintenance/point release on the books for next week. |
| 15:23 |
abneiman |
also, gmcharlt++ eeevil++ sandbergja++ Dyrcona++ # security release |
| 15:23 |
sandbergja |
+1 to a July maintenance release |
| 15:24 |
sandbergja |
and I can help out with it |
| 15:24 |
abneiman |
I'm available for release notes next week |
| 15:24 |
abneiman |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:24 |
redavis |
also +1 to the maintenance release, and I can do...something. |
| 15:24 |
redavis |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:24 |
abneiman |
redavis++ |
| 15:24 |
shulabear |
sandbergja++ redavis++ |
| 15:24 |
abneiman |
sounds like it's a go |
| 15:24 |
* mmorgan |
is willing to help also |
| 15:25 |
redavis |
I'll go ahead and send out a reminder to the list(s) tomorrow for anyone who wasn't here today. |
| 15:25 |
dluch |
sandbergja++ redavis++ abneiman++ mmorgan++ |
| 15:25 |
abneiman |
#info yes, Virginia, there will be a July point release |
| 15:25 |
redavis |
abneiman++ |
| 15:25 |
abneiman |
#action sandbergja, abneiman, redavis, and mmorgan will put out said point release |
| 15:25 |
abneiman |
mmorgan++ |
| 15:25 |
abneiman |
now that the karma is all in order. next item! |
| 15:25 |
jeffdavis |
thanks all! |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
#topic Launchpad stats |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
Snapshot |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
Open Bugs - 3108 |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
Pullrequests - 95 |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
Signedoff - 11 |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
Edit |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
Updates Since Last Meeting |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
Bugs Added - 76 |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
Pullrequest tag Added - 20 |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
Signedoff tag Added - 6 |
| 15:26 |
abneiman |
Fix Committed - 8 |
| 15:27 |
abneiman |
decent progress over the last month. any questions / comments on those? |
| 15:27 |
abneiman |
mmorgan++ # for the stats |
| 15:27 |
mmorgan |
progress++ |
| 15:27 |
abneiman |
onward! |
| 15:27 |
abneiman |
#topic New Business |
| 15:28 |
abneiman |
#info Can we make some progress on some of these issues? http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/evergreen/2024-03-12#i_547284 |
| 15:28 |
sandbergja |
I put this on here. I think I lied when calling it "new business" hahaha |
| 15:28 |
abneiman |
"eternal business" |
| 15:28 |
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ian1 left #evergreen |
| 15:28 |
terranm |
lol |
| 15:28 |
mmorgan |
Everything old is new again :) |
| 15:28 |
dluch |
lol |
| 15:29 |
sandbergja |
I was hoping we could go back to the previous discussion, and pull out one or two bitesize items that we could make progress on *in this meeting* |
| 15:29 |
abneiman |
ok - did you have your eye on a couple items in particular? |
| 15:29 |
redavis |
fer sure. But I do like the idea of someone being able to checkout a virtual machine. Just used that in a class and it was delightful. |
| 15:29 |
sandbergja |
so not like move git hosting or setting up a VM checkout system, but... like more guidance on backporting. Or doing something proactive about existing pull requests without test plans |
| 15:30 |
jeffdavis |
Would a "needstestplan" tag be useful or is that just kicking the can down the road some more? |
| 15:30 |
redavis |
jeffdavis++ |
| 15:30 |
sleary |
was just thinking that, jeffdavis |
| 15:31 |
abneiman |
it's certainly a start |
| 15:31 |
abneiman |
jeffdavis++ |
| 15:31 |
Dyrcona |
For testing, we do have this old document: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=dev:contributing:qa |
| 15:31 |
Dyrcona |
It basically says, you must include tests. |
| 15:32 |
jeffdavis |
I think " a plan for how to test if the fix works" is not necessarily the same as the automated tests contemplated there. |
| 15:32 |
jeffdavis |
Although automated tests are certainly ideal. |
| 15:32 |
sleary |
correct. |
| 15:32 |
abneiman |
yes, I was going to say - not everything is automatically-testable |
| 15:32 |
redavis |
I think there are both code tests and feature tests. |
| 15:33 |
sleary |
and I think that document is not entirely up to date with our current translation process. |
| 15:33 |
abneiman |
and in fact, we do have a "needstest" LP tag which indicates that an automated test is needed (and is often misapplied by people who think it means "please test this") |
| 15:34 |
sandbergja |
It seems to me that the automated test part of that document has been more or less ignored for 9 years... It is pretty unusual to see any code submitted _with_ automated tests. |
| 15:34 |
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| 15:34 |
Dyrcona |
True. We have not been enforcing it. Commit messages explaining how to test have been acceptable, too. |
| 15:34 |
redavis |
there's a nuance differentiating needstest and needstestplan |
| 15:36 |
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| 15:36 |
Dyrcona |
I'm not sure we were all that strict with the 2.8 and 2.9 releases mentioned in the document, but it's a start. |
| 15:36 |
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| 15:36 |
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Jaysal joined #evergreen |
| 15:36 |
sandbergja |
I'm hearing no strong objections to a needstestplan tag |
| 15:37 |
redavis |
+1 to needstestplan tag |
| 15:37 |
sandbergja |
And the page Dyrcona mentioned has a nice example of a test plan in a commit message |
| 15:37 |
redavis |
It seems that that page could also do with a nice update, but I can't volunteer for that. |
| 15:37 |
abneiman |
no, but I will point out that with one exception, the needstest tag is on bugs that haven't seen any action in 3+ years |
| 15:39 |
* mmorgan |
likes the idea of using Launchpad tags, but we need to make sure the tags are more like action items than reasons to kick the can down the road. |
| 15:39 |
abneiman |
this ^^^^ |
| 15:39 |
redavis |
abneiman, I can envision the needstestplan used on a consternating lp ticket during BSW where a tester might need more info to set up their test. "help me!" |
| 15:39 |
abneiman |
good point, redavis |
| 15:40 |
jeffdavis |
I will say I committed something today because abneiman asked for eyes on the 3.14 roadmap, and the fix had a test plan and no merge conflict. |
| 15:40 |
abneiman |
"The disambiguation of uses of Lauchpad tags: an Evergreen Conference Panel and / or drinking game" |
| 15:40 |
redavis |
lol! |
| 15:40 |
abneiman |
jeffdavis++ |
| 15:40 |
sandbergja |
nice, jeffdavis! |
| 15:40 |
redavis |
jeffdavis++ |
| 15:40 |
mmorgan |
jeffdavis++ |
| 15:40 |
dluch |
jeffdavis++ |
| 15:40 |
jeffdavis |
So reminders can work. Maybe sharing a "bugs to look at" list regularly would encourage that? |
| 15:41 |
abneiman |
Tags are good, and comments along with tags are even better. |
| 15:41 |
Dyrcona |
jeffdavis++ # The collab group looked at it yesterday, too. I thought some from that meeting was going to commit it. |
| 15:41 |
redavis |
re: EVGILS Panel vs. drinking game. Porque no los dos? |
| 15:41 |
abneiman |
jeffdavis: I like that idea, but who will produce that list? |
| 15:41 |
sleary |
could we add a new item to the stats in this meeting for bugs that have newly added "needstestplan" tags? |
| 15:42 |
mmorgan |
+1 |
| 15:42 |
smayo |
sleary++ |
| 15:42 |
abneiman |
well, in that case, "needswork" and "needsrebase" should also be on that list |
| 15:42 |
sandbergja |
One etiquette question (which I think might be part of not kicking the can down the road): if a pullrequest gets a needstestplan applied, can anybody reply on launchpad with the test plan? Or would it have to tbe the original patch author. |
| 15:43 |
mmorgan |
I also like the idea of a bugs to look at list. |
| 15:43 |
redavis |
that's a cool idea. clarifying question - would needstestplan only go on pull requested tickets? |
| 15:43 |
redavis |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:43 |
sleary |
redavis I think so |
| 15:43 |
redavis |
sleary++ |
| 15:43 |
shulabear |
redavis++ |
| 15:44 |
Dyrcona |
sandbergja: In keeping the bazaar atmosphere, I think anyone could offer a test plan, though it would be better coming from the original patch author. |
| 15:44 |
abneiman |
yes, I was basically typing what Dyrcona just said re test plan |
| 15:44 |
redavis |
Dyrcona++ |
| 15:44 |
mmorgan |
I also think anyone could offer a test plan. |
| 15:44 |
sandbergja |
Dyrcona++ |
| 15:44 |
shulabear |
Dyrcona++ |
| 15:44 |
abneiman |
and +1 to the tag being only applicable to pr'd items |
| 15:45 |
jeffdavis |
IMO it should be an expectation that the author provides the test plan, but I agree anyone could do it. |
| 15:45 |
abneiman |
OK, so, I think we have a few items of agreement here: |
| 15:45 |
redavis |
And maybe worth noting that there might be people who excel at test plans but not other stuff and vice versaish. |
| 15:45 |
shulabear |
redavis++ |
| 15:45 |
sandbergja |
redavis: good point |
| 15:46 |
sleary |
I think we've occasionally gotten test plans from the first signoff person. |
| 15:46 |
abneiman |
1) [someone] will create a needstestplan tag, which will be appplied to PR'd bugs if a test plan is lacking and needed; 2) we prefer if all PR'd bugs ALREADY have a test plan from the patch author, but if not, anyone can provide them; 3) mmorgan will update the LP stats monthly pull to include new uses of needswork, needsrebase, and needstestplan |
| 15:46 |
mmorgan |
Providing test plans could be a good fit for folks that use Evergreen and not so much write code. |
| 15:47 |
abneiman |
is that an accurate summary? does anyone want to take the first item as an action? |
| 15:47 |
redavis |
I do envision that this might be a nice entry point for community contribution as well. |
| 15:47 |
sandbergja |
I can make the tag right now |
| 15:48 |
mmorgan |
I would think it could be a good entry point. A good bug squasing week activity! |
| 15:48 |
mmorgan |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:48 |
abneiman |
sandbergja++ # the best kind of action items are the ones already done! |
| 15:48 |
abneiman |
ok, for the minutes: |
| 15:48 |
redavis |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:49 |
abneiman |
#info agreed upon the following: 1) sandbergja will create a needstestplan tag, which will be appplied to PR'd bugs if a test plan is lacking and needed; 2) we prefer if all PR'd bugs ALREADY have a test plan from the patch author, but if not, anyone can provide them; 3) mmorgan will update the LP stats monthly pull to include new uses of needswork, needsrebase, and needstestplan |
| 15:49 |
terranm |
It will need to be added to https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=dev:lp_tags as well - I can do that |
| 15:49 |
abneiman |
terranm++ |
| 15:49 |
redavis |
terranm++ |
| 15:49 |
Dyrcona |
I think there's actually and #agreed command for the bot. |
| 15:49 |
abneiman |
moving along, or any other discussion here? did we meet your goal of bitesize actionable items here, sandbergja? |
| 15:49 |
Dyrcona |
s/and/an/ |
| 15:49 |
terranm |
To make sure I'm right, needstestplan should be applied to tickets needing testing instructions, correct? (I had to step away, so trying to catch up)_ |
| 15:50 |
sleary |
yes |
| 15:50 |
terranm |
thx |
| 15:50 |
sandbergja |
I'm good! Thanks all! |
| 15:50 |
abneiman |
everyone++ |
| 15:50 |
abneiman |
next item |
| 15:50 |
abneiman |
#info several items on the 3.14 roadmap are already pullrequested, and two are signed off - can these get some eyes to avoid last minute merge scrambling? |
| 15:51 |
abneiman |
this was from me. |
| 15:51 |
abneiman |
oops, links are helpful: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=faqs:evergreen_roadmap:3.14 |
| 15:52 |
abneiman |
jeffdavis already took one of these on, so there are now TWO features committed for 3.14! |
| 15:52 |
dluch |
woot! |
| 15:52 |
eeevil |
side note, I'm happy that evergreen pi will be a spoooooky release right by Halloween :D |
| 15:52 |
abneiman |
and yes, I will give myself a related action |
| 15:52 |
abneiman |
#action abneiman will review existing EOLI PRs for test plans |
| 15:52 |
phasefx_ |
we could just keep versioning in the pattern of pi, but it wouldn't be rational |
| 15:52 |
Dyrcona |
eeevil: Should we do what tex does and increment 1 digit of pi for each future release? |
| 15:53 |
Dyrcona |
phasefx_++ |
| 15:53 |
abneiman |
phasefx_++ |
| 15:53 |
abneiman |
but I mean, if y'all are done... |
| 15:53 |
abneiman |
ahem. |
| 15:53 |
redavis |
phasefix_++ |
| 15:53 |
redavis |
phasefx_++ #too |
| 15:53 |
dluch |
phasefx_++ |
| 15:54 |
smayo |
A spooky release with dark mode on the roadmap? Very spooky. |
| 15:54 |
phasefx_ |
we're all nerds |
| 15:54 |
abneiman |
(I'm just forging ahead, you nerds) there are 3 pullrequests and 2 signoffs on that 3.14 roadmap. Perhaps instead of a Last Minute Merge Melee, we can look at some of those earlier? |
| 15:54 |
sleary |
smayo we should put a ghost easter egg in there somewhere |
| 15:54 |
eeevil |
alliterative code names: pumpkin pi |
| 15:54 |
redavis |
There are couple of those that are still in or pre-testing. |
| 15:55 |
abneiman |
good point, redavis |
| 15:55 |
sleary |
yes, and a few not finished at all--although dark mode is getting pretty close! |
| 15:55 |
redavis |
Also, I'll go do a root around LP and see if there are some other things that should be added to the roadmap as well. |
| 15:56 |
jeffdavis |
I'm kind of scared to commit bug 2043142 because it's so big, even though folks here at Sitka have tested and signed off on it. Does a non-EOLI person need to commit it? |
| 15:56 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2043142 in Evergreen "wishlist: Reports security improvements" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2043142 |
| 15:56 |
abneiman |
AFAIK these are ready for review: |
| 15:56 |
abneiman |
Add PostgreSQL 16 support bug 2037656 – pullrequested & signedoff |
| 15:56 |
abneiman |
Experimental Angular Circulation update (alerts, messages, notes; accessibility) bug 2065344 – pullrequested |
| 15:56 |
abneiman |
Rename Any Parts label bug 1902120 – pullrequested |
| 15:56 |
abneiman |
Reports security improvements bug 2043142 – pullrequested & signedoff |
| 15:56 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2037656 in Evergreen "Add Support for PostgreSQL 16" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2037656 |
| 15:56 |
abneiman |
Various changes to the release process bug 2060734 – pullrequested |
| 15:56 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2065344 in Evergreen "Angular Circ: notes & messages; UI & accessibility omnibus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2065344 |
| 15:56 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 1902120 in Evergreen "Rename 'All parts' to 'Any part' in hold placement screen" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1902120 |
| 15:56 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2060734 in Evergreen "Various changes to the release process" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2060734 - Assigned to Jason Stephenson (jstephenson) |
| 15:56 |
redavis |
jeffdavis, that's preferable. |
| 15:57 |
Dyrcona |
Regarding Lp 2043142: Someone at CW MARS told me it likely would not affect us because we don't let library staff create templates. Otherwise, we would probably have tested it by now. |
| 15:57 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2043142 in Evergreen "wishlist: Reports security improvements" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2043142 |
| 15:57 |
sandbergja |
out of curiosity, does bug 2043142 have a test plan? |
| 15:58 |
abneiman |
sandbergja: there is a tech ref doc and an extensive commit message, but not necessarily a "do A and get B" test plan |
| 15:58 |
Dyrcona |
I have actually been looking at Lp 2060734, and I should go ever it again. I think I'd like to suggest/make some modifications. |
| 15:58 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2060734 in Evergreen "Various changes to the release process" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2060734 - Assigned to Jason Stephenson (jstephenson) |
| 15:59 |
abneiman |
which, does point to a wrinkle that I of all people should've thought of, which is, what's the difference between a bugfix test plan and a feature test plan |
| 15:59 |
Dyrcona |
typos-- |
| 15:59 |
sandbergja |
Dyrcona++ # thanks for reviewing that |
| 15:59 |
Dyrcona |
sandbergja++ Thanks for taking it on. |
| 15:59 |
sandbergja |
abneiman: good question |
| 16:00 |
Dyrcona |
yeah, bug fix tests should be easier than new features, unless the feature is really simple. |
| 16:00 |
abneiman |
because with features, it's not as simple as "do A and get B" - which is why we (Equinox) try to include documentation and tech ref docs with new features, along with extensive commit messages |
| 16:01 |
abneiman |
but, if you all would rather us put out more formal test plans, I can work on that as well |
| 16:01 |
|
rlefaive joined #evergreen |
| 16:01 |
abneiman |
however, we are at the top of the hour so maybe "test plans for big features" could be a future topic |
| 16:02 |
sandbergja |
yeah, that might be where it gets trickier |
| 16:02 |
dluch |
+1 |
| 16:03 |
redavis |
also +1 |
| 16:03 |
abneiman |
#action discussion item for next meeting: test plans for big features |
| 16:03 |
abneiman |
that even might be a worthy hackaway topic |
| 16:03 |
abneiman |
anyway. |
| 16:04 |
abneiman |
anything else to discuss? Anything that I forgot? Any parting words of wisdom? |
| 16:04 |
redavis |
stay hydrated |
| 16:04 |
eeevil |
never start a land war in ... oh, nevermind |
| 16:04 |
abneiman |
#agree we're all gonna stay hydrated |
| 16:04 |
dluch |
lol |
| 16:04 |
redavis |
eeevil++ |
| 16:04 |
shulabear |
never got up against a sicilian when death is on the line. |
| 16:05 |
abneiman |
going once |
| 16:05 |
* mmorgan |
want some pi(e) |
| 16:05 |
eeevil |
shulabear++ |
| 16:05 |
redavis |
shulabear++ |
| 16:05 |
abneiman |
going twice ... |
| 16:05 |
dluch |
shulabear++ |
| 16:05 |
abneiman |
it's been real y'all |
| 16:05 |
terranm |
Cheers y'all |
| 16:05 |
abneiman |
#endmeeting |
| 16:05 |
pinesol |
Meeting ended Tue Jul 9 16:05:22 2024 US/Eastern. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 16:05 |
pinesol |
Minutes: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2024/evergreen.2024-07-09-15.00.html |
| 16:05 |
pinesol |
Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2024/evergreen.2024-07-09-15.00.txt |
| 16:05 |
pinesol |
Log: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2024/evergreen.2024-07-09-15.00.log.html |
| 16:05 |
eeevil |
abneiman++ |
| 16:05 |
shulabear |
abneiman++ |
| 16:05 |
Dyrcona |
abneiman++ |
| 16:05 |
dluch |
abneiman++ |
| 16:05 |
mmorgan |
abneiman++ |
| 16:05 |
collum |
abneiman++ |
| 16:05 |
sleary |
abneiman++ |
| 16:06 |
scottangel |
abneiman++ |
| 16:06 |
redavis |
abneiman++ |
| 16:06 |
phasefx_ |
abneiman++ |
| 16:06 |
smayo |
abneiman++ |
| 16:50 |
sandbergja |
abneiman++ |
| 16:51 |
JBoyer |
abneiman++ |
| 16:54 |
sandbergja |
abneiman++ |
| 17:23 |
|
mmorgan left #evergreen |
