| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:15 |
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| 07:54 |
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| 08:41 |
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| 09:02 |
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| 10:25 |
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| 10:26 |
* Bmagic |
waves at Dyrcona |
| 10:26 |
* Dyrcona |
waves back at Bmagic. |
| 10:26 |
Dyrcona |
I updated my laptop and had some issues signing into IRC. |
| 10:27 |
Bmagic |
I went full fedora on my PC, trying to get all the same stuff to work.... long story short, formatted back to Windows :( |
| 10:27 |
Dyrcona |
Well, upgraded to Ubuntu 22.04. |
| 10:28 |
Dyrcona |
Well, if you depend on a Windows-only program, I wouldn't recommend switching to Linux. |
| 10:28 |
Bmagic |
Mostly games is the problem. Combined with Discord. Linux is a stickler for letting you use the push-to-talk feature when the "listening" program isn't in focus |
| 10:29 |
Dyrcona |
wine is for games mostly. I blame StarCraft for the existence of wine. :) |
| 10:29 |
Bmagic |
I did get all* of my games to work one way or another, but each one had it's own quirks, just little stabs. It was death by a thousand cuts basically. I was like, why am I doing this to myself |
| 10:30 |
Dyrcona |
But, there are many games that come with a Linux version thanks to Valve and Steam. |
| 10:30 |
Bmagic |
yes! Steam is a godsend |
| 10:30 |
Bmagic |
Atomic (I think) is the magic |
| 10:31 |
Dyrcona |
IDK, I don't play that many games anymore. |
| 10:31 |
Bmagic |
Windows just works. Sad but true. I ain't got time to fight each little thing |
| 10:31 |
Dyrcona |
Linux just works. |
| 10:32 |
Bmagic |
And now, Windows has linux... |
| 10:32 |
Rogan |
@Dyrcona StarCraft is one of the few games I didn't have trouble with wine appropriately enough |
| 10:32 |
pinesol |
Rogan: Leave me alone, I'm busy right now. |
| 10:33 |
Bmagic |
wifi cards, bluetooth headphones, proprietary headphone radios, The whole audio stack isn't as good in Linux either, I noticed |
| 10:33 |
Dyrcona |
I played StarCraft and WarCraft III for years using wine with no issues. |
| 10:34 |
Rogan |
I mostly use linux command line and use mac for every day use, I've not been impressed with video or audio tools in linux. |
| 10:34 |
Bmagic |
I did get Starcraft to work, that wasn't easy though. Mostly because the blizzard launcher needed a bunch of TLC to make work |
| 10:34 |
Rogan |
I did recently put together a Windows machine for games because the kids wanted to play games with me, tragically I have not been able to interest them in RTSes though I restarted playing Starcraft a few weeks ago |
| 10:36 |
Dyrcona |
I've used Linux or FreeBSD as my main desktop/laptop O/S since 1996 or so. Did have a Mac Book for a while in there. |
| 10:37 |
Rogan |
one day I'll probably try a linux desktop seriously again but having BSD available on mac makes it a nice platform for me |
| 10:37 |
Dyrcona |
I mostly play Battle for Wesnoth lately. It's turn-based. I do sometimes think about installing StarCraft or WarCraft IIi from time to time. |
| 10:37 |
Rogan |
if mac hadn't adopted BSD I think I'd probably be on a linux desktop for personal stuff but who knows |
| 10:38 |
Dyrcona |
Well, I'm getting more curmudgeonly when it comes to software licensing as I get older. |
| 10:39 |
Bmagic |
Linux for the desktop is better than it has ever been, I'll give it that. I gave it a serious amount of my time a few months ago. Ran it full time on my big hardware machine. It was almost* usable. :) |
| 10:40 |
Bmagic |
Fedora with KDE if you're wondering |
| 10:41 |
Dyrcona |
So, work laptop is Ubuntu 22.04 (as of this morning) with Ubuntu's Gnome. Personal laptop is Arch with standard Gnome. |
| 10:42 |
Bmagic |
I tend to have too many windows open for me to use Gnome. I need to "see"/address each individual window on the bar. Gnome loves to dissapear that stuff |
| 10:42 |
Dyrcona |
Oh, I have a Pinebook with Manjaro and KDE just to have something different. Last time I tried to update it, one of the package maintainers keys had expired. I should see if they've fixed that. :) |
| 10:43 |
Dyrcona |
Bmagic; You do know about virtual desktops, right? |
| 10:43 |
Bmagic |
yeah |
| 10:43 |
Bmagic |
I'll admit I don't make use of that feature as much as I should |
| 10:43 |
Bmagic |
(Windows has it too) |
| 10:44 |
Dyrcona |
'bout time. :) It's been around since the '90s. |
| 10:45 |
Bmagic |
:) |
| 10:49 |
|
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| 10:51 |
mantis |
Lately, I've been playing Frostpunk |
| 10:51 |
Bmagic |
mantis++ # A new one for me to explore! |
| 10:52 |
mantis |
it gets kind of depressing but I like the concept of building a community in that kind of environment |
| 10:52 |
Dyrcona |
Neverwinter Nights was good for building a community around persistent worlds. |
| 11:00 |
|
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| 11:08 |
Dyrcona |
Y'know what's bugging me this week: HDMI. The connection is so finicky. Bump the table and the screen blanks then comes back. |
| 11:11 |
Bmagic |
berick: zoom meeting |
| 11:12 |
* Dyrcona |
shudders. Emacs as a snap...... |
| 11:12 |
Dyrcona |
Oh... I should check for a Zoom update. Bmagic++ |
| 11:15 |
berick |
Bmagic: arg! |
| 11:44 |
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| 11:58 |
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| 12:39 |
|
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| 12:52 |
Dyrcona |
And, now, there's a BIOS update. Might as well install that, too. |
| 13:00 |
|
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| 13:17 |
Dyrcona |
I'm looking at Lp 2040514. Does anyone have any tips for testing SFTP for EDI? I'm planning to set up one of my VMx to be the SFTP server. I'm wondering where I can look for actual messages to send back and forth. I'm pretty sure the actual EDI gets stored in the database somewhere. |
| 13:17 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2040514 in Evergreen "EDI SFTP doesn't work" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2040514 - Assigned to Jason Stephenson (jstephenson) |
| 13:18 |
|
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| 13:29 |
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| 13:29 |
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| 13:30 |
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| 13:42 |
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| 13:44 |
mantis |
in a situation when a hold is status Error -1, is retargeting the only way to have it become an active hold again? That's what I got from this ticket https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1526605 |
| 13:44 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 1526605 in Evergreen "Holds can get stuck with a hold status of -1" [Undecided,New] |
| 13:49 |
Dyrcona |
mantis: I think so. -1 means that the holds backend code is unable to determine the status of the hold. |
| 13:49 |
Dyrcona |
is there a hopeles date on that hold? |
| 13:51 |
Dyrcona |
hopeless_date is the field |
| 13:56 |
Dyrcona |
huh. I spot checked a few hopeless holds and they give different statuses. |
| 14:16 |
jeffdavis |
Is anyone here using something *other than* SIP2 for self check? |
| 14:17 |
jeffdavis |
For example, I know NCIPServer exists but I don't know if anyone is successfully using it with self-check machines? |
| 14:19 |
Dyrcona |
jeffdavis: NCIPServer would need some work to function as a self check. |
| 14:19 |
mantis |
Dyrcona++ |
| 14:19 |
mantis |
didn't come up as a hopeless hold for me but I can ask them to retarget the hold |
| 14:20 |
Dyrcona |
mantis++ |
| 14:21 |
Dyrcona |
I checked a few hopeless_holds and got mostly statuses 1 and 6, and no -1. |
| 14:22 |
mantis |
oh interesting |
| 14:22 |
mantis |
in Item Status, it has a status of Canceled transit |
| 14:23 |
mmorgan |
mantis: In my experience, manually retargeting is the only way to move those holds along. |
| 14:24 |
Dyrcona |
I'd have to look at the code to be sure, but I think canceling a hold while it is in transit or on the shelf can cause the -1 status. |
| 14:25 |
mmorgan |
I never saw a problem with canceling a hold while in transit. Those holds should just get Canceled as the hold status. |
| 14:26 |
Dyrcona |
Wouldn't be the first time my memory is flawed or out of date. :) |
| 14:26 |
mmorgan |
-1 seems to result when *something* happens to change the status of the captured item so that the item's status no longer matches the state of the hold. Not sure what that *something* is. |
| 14:27 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona: ditto! :) |
| 14:28 |
mmorgan |
But I know there used to be situations where it was possible to edit a magic status, and that could result in a -1 hold status. |
| 14:28 |
mmorgan |
s/magic status/magic item status |
| 14:30 |
mantis |
mmorgan: that does make sense to me |
| 14:30 |
mantis |
when I looked it up via code, I just saw it as a string in hold_strings.tt2 |
| 14:34 |
Dyrcona |
mantis: It's calculate in Open-ILS/src/perlmods/lib/OpenILS/Application/Circ/Holds.pm by 'sub _hold_status' |
| 14:36 |
Dyrcona |
You can look up the status for a given hold with the open-ils.circ.hold.status.retrieve backend call. |
| 14:36 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona++ |
| 14:36 |
* mmorgan |
was just looking for that. |
| 14:37 |
mmorgan |
https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=blob;f=Open-ILS/src/perlmods/lib/OpenILS/Application/Circ/Holds.pm;hb=dc62a7b3540859410e75c585ef585b7145a24c0a#l1561 |
| 14:37 |
Dyrcona |
-1 happens if it falls through all of the various if conditions and gets to the end of the _hold_status function. |
| 14:38 |
Dyrcona |
mmorgan++ |
| 14:46 |
Dyrcona |
Looks like the most common cause for a -1 would be the copy status not lining up with the conditions for being on hold. |
| 14:47 |
|
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| 14:51 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona: Right, something bad happens to the item's status and the hold status gets confused. |
| 14:51 |
jeffdavis |
dev meeting in <10 minutes |
| 14:55 |
|
kmlussier joined #evergreen |
| 14:56 |
kmlussier |
redavis: I can't tell you how excited I was to fill out the voter registration form for the first time in five years. :) |
| 14:56 |
Bmagic |
3 minutes till dev meeting |
| 14:56 |
redavis |
kmlussier++ I'm pretty dang excited too. |
| 14:57 |
redavis |
We have a strong slate of candidates too. |
| 14:57 |
kmlussier |
Also, before the meeting starts, I would like to announce that I have found a new source for espresso chips. I have several bags sitting at home, waiting to be baked into tuit cookies. |
| 14:58 |
|
terranm joined #evergreen |
| 14:58 |
mmorgan |
kmlussier++ |
| 14:58 |
dluch |
kmlussier++ |
| 14:58 |
Bmagic |
1 minute |
| 14:59 |
redavis |
kmlussier++ #I <3 cookies |
| 14:59 |
Bmagic |
10 seconds |
| 14:59 |
Bmagic |
5 |
| 15:00 |
Bmagic |
#startmeeting 2024-03-12 - Developer Meeting |
| 15:00 |
pinesol |
Meeting started Tue Mar 12 15:00:03 2024 US/Eastern. The chair is Bmagic. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 15:00 |
pinesol |
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. |
| 15:00 |
pinesol |
The meeting name has been set to '2024_03_12___developer_meeting' |
| 15:00 |
Bmagic |
#info Agenda at https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=dev:meetings:2024-03-12 |
| 15:00 |
Bmagic |
#topic Introductions |
| 15:00 |
Dyrcona |
#info Dyrcona = Jason Stephenson, CW MARS |
| 15:00 |
Bmagic |
#info Bmagic = Blake GH, MOBIUS |
| 15:00 |
dluch |
#info dluch = Debbie Luchenbill, MOBIUS |
| 15:00 |
Stompro |
#info Stompro = Josh Stompro, LARL |
| 15:00 |
abneiman |
#info abneiman = Andrea Buntz Neiman, Equinox |
| 15:00 |
terranm |
#info terranm = Terran McCanna, Georgia PINES |
| 15:00 |
jeffdavis |
#info jeffdavis = Jeff Davis, BC Libraries Cooperative (Sitka) |
| 15:00 |
kmlussier |
#info kmlussier = Kathy Lussier, NOBLE |
| 15:00 |
sleary |
#info sleary = Stephanie Leary, Equinox |
| 15:00 |
mmorgan |
#info mmorgan = Michele Morgan, NOBLE |
| 15:01 |
berick |
#info berick Bill Erickson, KCLS |
| 15:01 |
smayo |
#info smayo = Steven Mayo, Georgia PINES |
| 15:01 |
sandbergja |
#info sandbergja = Jane Sandberg, PUL |
| 15:01 |
Bmagic |
feel free to add yourself as you arrive |
| 15:01 |
Bmagic |
#topic Action Items from Last Meeting |
| 15:01 |
Bmagic |
#info mmorgan will explore moving LP stats to community site and automating same |
| 15:01 |
mmorgan |
Please carry forward. Wanted to also note that some of today's stats came from the Launchpad API. |
| 15:02 |
Bmagic |
#action mmorgan will explore moving LP stats to community site and automating same |
| 15:02 |
Bmagic |
#info sandbergja will see if gh actions can run the pgtap tests |
| 15:02 |
sandbergja |
I have a pullrequest for that, bug 2055796 |
| 15:02 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2055796 in Evergreen "Have github actions run pgtap tests for us" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2055796 |
| 15:02 |
Bmagic |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:02 |
smayo |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:02 |
dluch |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:03 |
Dyrcona |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:03 |
Bmagic |
nice! deprecating PG10 |
| 15:03 |
mmorgan |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:03 |
sleary |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:03 |
eeevil |
#info eeevil = Mike Rylander, EOLI |
| 15:04 |
Dyrcona |
Bmagic: We should remove Pg 10 and Pg 11 from the prereqs, but that's another conversation. |
| 15:04 |
Bmagic |
#info gmcharlt_ - create a Git commit message type and update bug 2051946 |
| 15:04 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2051946 in Evergreen "institute a Git commit message template" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2051946 - Assigned to Galen Charlton (gmc) |
| 15:04 |
Bmagic |
Dyrcona: right, for another time |
| 15:05 |
Bmagic |
I suppose we can skip this, I didn't see him type |
| 15:05 |
Bmagic |
don't wanna forget though |
| 15:05 |
|
collum joined #evergreen |
| 15:05 |
Bmagic |
#action gmcharlt - create a Git commit message type and update bug 2051946 |
| 15:05 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 2051946 in Evergreen "institute a Git commit message template" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2051946 - Assigned to Galen Charlton (gmc) |
| 15:05 |
Dyrcona |
Looks like it is in progress. I tested the other branch that makes release notes entries. |
| 15:05 |
eeevil |
gmcharlt_ is traveling today, aiui. |
| 15:05 |
Bmagic |
ah, cool |
| 15:05 |
Bmagic |
#info Stompro will formalize the tense usage in the release-note message |
| 15:06 |
Stompro |
Would anyone else like to take this on, I'm not much of a wordsmith after looking into it a bit. |
| 15:06 |
Bmagic |
Stompro: do we have a wiki page stub for it? |
| 15:06 |
Dyrcona |
We should probably just use past tenses: Fixed bug bla bla bla |
| 15:07 |
Stompro |
Bmagic, no, I was just starting with the notes for the release-notes tag. |
| 15:07 |
abneiman |
+1 to just picking one and sticking with it. I have no problem with past tense. |
| 15:07 |
Bmagic |
see, I was favoring present tense. "Fixes bug bla bla bla" |
| 15:07 |
collum |
#info collum = Garry Collum, KCPL |
| 15:07 |
abneiman |
I tend to write release notes now in the present/active voice but whatever, let's just pick one |
| 15:08 |
JBoyer |
Inconsistent tense beats no notes erryday. |
| 15:08 |
Dyrcona |
Bmagic I think it depends on context, but I'm not married to past tense. |
| 15:08 |
kmlussier |
I favor present tense too. It's more active. |
| 15:08 |
dluch |
Same |
| 15:08 |
terranm |
I thought JBoyer was doing beat poetry for a sec |
| 15:08 |
dluch |
lol |
| 15:08 |
abneiman |
terranm: maybe he was |
| 15:08 |
kmlussier |
terranm++ |
| 15:08 |
Stompro |
I prefer present tense also. ... I can keep working on it. |
| 15:08 |
Bmagic |
how's about a vote? |
| 15:08 |
JBoyer |
Had I but more time! |
| 15:08 |
Dyrcona |
Consensus seems to be present tense. No need to vote. |
| 15:08 |
dluch |
Then you could rhyme? |
| 15:09 |
Bmagic |
ok then, easy |
| 15:09 |
abneiman |
no need for pretense, let's stick with common sense, and go for present tense |
| 15:09 |
Bmagic |
we shall hence forth use present tense for our release-notes tag in git commit messages |
| 15:09 |
kmlussier |
abneiman++ |
| 15:09 |
dluch |
abneiman++ lol |
| 15:10 |
sleary |
abneiman++ |
| 15:10 |
Bmagic |
abneiman++ |
| 15:10 |
* eeevil |
will have used present tense perfectly in the past |
| 15:10 |
abneiman |
#info agreed that release-notes tag will use present tense: 'fixes', 'updates' etc. |
| 15:10 |
Bmagic |
haha |
| 15:10 |
abneiman |
I will update the bug |
| 15:10 |
Bmagic |
thanks abneiman - perfect. It is written. It's in history |
| 15:10 |
sleary |
I am the very model of a present perfect prefect.... |
| 15:10 |
mmorgan |
abneiman++ |
| 15:11 |
Bmagic |
I think we're ready for: |
| 15:11 |
Bmagic |
#info terranm will make LP tag "caching" official |
| 15:11 |
|
jvwoolf joined #evergreen |
| 15:11 |
terranm |
Uh... I think I did that already? Checking... |
| 15:11 |
terranm |
Yes, done |
| 15:12 |
Bmagic |
terranm++ |
| 15:12 |
eeevil |
terranm makes an authoritative request because the information was not ... cached |
| 15:12 |
sandbergja |
terranm++ |
| 15:12 |
Bmagic |
man, we're killing it today |
| 15:12 |
dluch |
terranm++ |
| 15:12 |
mmorgan |
Past tense is appropriate in this case |
| 15:12 |
sandbergja |
hahaha |
| 15:12 |
abneiman |
terranm++ |
| 15:12 |
smayo |
terranm++ |
| 15:12 |
sleary |
terranm++ |
| 15:12 |
terranm |
lol |
| 15:12 |
dluch |
(sleary, now that song is in my head!) |
| 15:12 |
Bmagic |
#topic Evergreen |
| 15:12 |
sleary |
dluch (sorry!) |
| 15:12 |
Bmagic |
#info The next point releases are scheduled for March 20th (during bug squashing week). Should we push them back a week to the 27th so that our energies aren't divided between the two? Also, who'd like to help with the release? |
| 15:13 |
Dyrcona |
I think we should wait until the 27th, and right now, I think I can help. |
| 15:13 |
sandbergja |
Dyrcona++ |
| 15:13 |
eeevil |
re the first part, I think that's smart (and then the release can get the squashed bugs) |
| 15:13 |
Bmagic |
+1 (and I can help with the building(s)) |
| 15:13 |
abneiman |
+1 to 27th, I can test & eval the release-notes script as part of point releases |
| 15:13 |
mmorgan |
+1 to March 27, I can help also. |
| 15:14 |
sandbergja |
Bmagic++ |
| 15:14 |
sandbergja |
abneiman++ |
| 15:14 |
sandbergja |
mmorgan++ |
| 15:14 |
Bmagic |
And that's my daughters birthday too, double awesome |
| 15:14 |
Bmagic |
#topic Documentation |
| 15:14 |
Bmagic |
#info DIG met March 7, will meet again during Bug Squashing Week, then at the Hackfest |
| 15:15 |
Bmagic |
doesn't lend itself to discussion |
| 15:15 |
abneiman |
ooh I snuck in another item under Releases - which was the updated release schedule |
| 15:15 |
dluch |
I have nothing else to add--it's mostly just for info purposes in the agenda |
| 15:15 |
Bmagic |
abneiman: alright, looping back |
| 15:15 |
abneiman |
#info updated release schedule here: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=faqs:evergreen_roadmap |
| 15:15 |
abneiman |
sorry dluch, proceed :) |
| 15:16 |
Bmagic |
ok, you got it, nice |
| 15:16 |
Bmagic |
I gotta set my browser to refresh that page every couple minutes during the meeting :) |
| 15:16 |
Bmagic |
#info Documentation for Angular Staff Catalog is almost done! |
| 15:16 |
dluch |
:-) Well, unless anyone else from the DIG meeting wants to add anything just see the agenda, lol. Or if anyone has any questions |
| 15:17 |
dluch |
Thanks to Spencer Pennington for those Angular Staff Catalog docs! |
| 15:17 |
Bmagic |
spencer_pennington++ |
| 15:17 |
Bmagic |
and now, he has to use that nick |
| 15:17 |
dluch |
lol |
| 15:18 |
terranm |
spencer_pennington++ |
| 15:18 |
Bmagic |
<-- trend setter |
| 15:18 |
Bmagic |
#info Pre-3.12 docs now have links to current Reports docs |
| 15:18 |
Bmagic |
#info We'll be identifying missing 3.12 documentation to work on for Bug Squashing Week |
| 15:18 |
Bmagic |
#link https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=evergreen-docs:documentation_needs |
| 15:19 |
terranm |
dig++ |
| 15:19 |
Bmagic |
dig++ # well deserved |
| 15:19 |
sandbergja |
dig++ |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
#topic Launchpad Status (as of noon Eastern) |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
incoming! duck and cover |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
#info Open Bugs - 3126 |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
#info Pullrequests - 98 |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
#info Signedoff - 12 |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
#topic Launchpad Status since last meeting |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
#info Bugs Added - 59 |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
#info Pullrequest tag Added - 27 |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
#info Signedoff tag Added - 26 |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
#info Fix Committed - 31 |
| 15:20 |
Bmagic |
#topic New Business - Call for volunteer to give the development update at the conference |
| 15:21 |
Bmagic |
I vote Spencer |
| 15:21 |
sandbergja |
mmorgan++ # stats |
| 15:21 |
abneiman |
I can definitely help with dev update, since redavis and I will have a lot of that content in our slides already |
| 15:21 |
dluch |
mmorgan++ |
| 15:21 |
terranm |
mmorgan++ abneiman++ |
| 15:21 |
dluch |
abneiman++ |
| 15:22 |
Bmagic |
abneiman++ # sounds like you're doing it |
| 15:22 |
sandbergja |
abneiman++ |
| 15:22 |
abneiman |
sure, whatevs. If anyone has things they want to make sure I cover, you all know various ways to get ahold of me. |
| 15:22 |
mmorgan |
abneiman++ |
| 15:22 |
Bmagic |
awesome |
| 15:23 |
redavis |
#info redavis = Ruth Davis, Evergreen Indiana and other stuff |
| 15:23 |
Bmagic |
and now the one we've all been waiting for |
| 15:23 |
Bmagic |
#topic New Business - Barriers to getting things committed |
| 15:23 |
jeffdavis |
I can start this off |
| 15:23 |
Bmagic |
please do |
| 15:23 |
jeffdavis |
I want to commit more pullrequests, but when I try, I often run into the same barriers: |
| 15:23 |
jeffdavis |
(1) no test environment available, (2) no test plan, (3) test plan is difficult to set up, (4) merge conflicts, esp with code that has sat uncommitted for months, (5) extra overhead required to backport and/or unsure whether to backport, (6) unresolved questions about the fix. |
| 15:23 |
jeffdavis |
I wonder if there are things we can be doing to mitigate some of those barriers? |
| 15:23 |
jeffdavis |
For example, would more community dev VMs be helpful? |
| 15:24 |
Dyrcona |
For 5 we can backport fewer fixes, particularly those that touch the database. |
| 15:24 |
Bmagic |
I think the answer is: yes |
| 15:24 |
Bmagic |
do we need a system for people to "checkout" a VM so it's their's for a time? |
| 15:25 |
sandbergja |
It seems that if we address some of the others, 4 might take care of itself (i.e. if we have a quicker commit cadence, branches won't sit for as long) |
| 15:25 |
abneiman |
4 is a problem, but especially a chicken-and-egg thing since the longer things sit without review the more conflicts they accumulate. For 2, I can commit to sharing test plans for Equinox-developed features. |
| 15:25 |
Bmagic |
we could use Evergreen to manage the checkouts |
| 15:25 |
abneiman |
sandbergja: great minds, lol |
| 15:25 |
Dyrcona |
i also think it is perfectly fair to comment on the bug that there is no test plan provided, and it's not obvious how to test the bug. |
| 15:26 |
Dyrcona |
For 4, it's also perfectly fine to ask the original developer to rebase it, or at least comment that it needs a rebase if you're not comfortable doing it yourself. |
| 15:26 |
sleary |
If you are the person rebasing it, and the merge conflicts have to do with CSS or ARIA, please ping me here and I'll be happy to help. |
| 15:27 |
abneiman |
+1, asking for dev rebases is totally fair game |
| 15:27 |
abneiman |
sleary++ |
| 15:27 |
jeffdavis |
I've also shared pullrequests and had to rebase them multiple times, which gets frustrating, so asking the dev to rebase is fair but only goes so far IMO. |
| 15:28 |
abneiman |
so it sounds like we really have 4 communications problems, 1 technical problem (test environments), and 1 practice problem (when do we backport?) |
| 15:28 |
Dyrcona |
jeffdavis: I do try to handle the rebases myself, but sometimes, its not obvious how to resolve it. |
| 15:29 |
mmorgan |
abneiman++ |
| 15:29 |
jeffdavis |
abneiman: great point |
| 15:29 |
kmlussier |
Often, when somebody asks for a rebase, it's during a rare moment when the tester has time to look at the code. If the person doesn't rebase it quickly, that person may no longer be available to test. Not so much a communications problem, but a tuits problem. |
| 15:30 |
Dyrcona |
I think that's more of a time problem. Most of us have "other jobs" or at least our job has more requirements than working on Evergreen code. |
| 15:30 |
dluch |
abneiman++ |
| 15:31 |
abneiman |
perhaps if a tester and a dev had a quick conversation, though, everyone's time could be used more valuably - "hey I'm planning to test this in $timeframe, do you mind looking at a rebase?" "I can do rebase within $possibleothertimeframe and let you know when it's done" etc etc |
| 15:32 |
mmorgan |
I think the code review sessions have been great for getting folks together to tackle individual bugs, whatever their issues. |
| 15:32 |
abneiman |
code review is GREAT for this |
| 15:32 |
abneiman |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:32 |
abneiman |
times a million |
| 15:32 |
mmorgan |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:32 |
Bmagic |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:32 |
redavis |
I wonder if this would be a great thing to work on at the conference hackfest. To get some procedures hashed out. |
| 15:32 |
terranm |
devs being available to do rebases during bug squashing weeks is also really helpful |
| 15:32 |
dluch |
sandbergja++ |
| 15:32 |
sleary |
sandbergja floated the idea of a rebasing party during the code review meeting on Monday. If people would like to do that this Friday, I can be available to help out with all the UI stuff that changed in the last couple of versions. |
| 15:33 |
dluch |
redavis: that's a good thought! |
| 15:33 |
redavis |
sandbergja++ sleary++ |
| 15:33 |
abneiman |
don't want to lose terranm 's point about devs / committers being engaged with BSW |
| 15:33 |
abneiman |
that's a time when a critical mass of people are testing, etc. |
| 15:33 |
sleary |
terranm++ |
| 15:33 |
Bmagic |
agreed |
| 15:33 |
redavis |
agreed |
| 15:33 |
dluch |
terranm++ |
| 15:34 |
redavis |
abneiman++ terranm++ |
| 15:34 |
terranm |
sleary I love the idea of a rebase party! (Unfortunately I'll be out on Friday, but next time!) |
| 15:34 |
abneiman |
ain't no party like a rebase party |
| 15:35 |
terranm |
All about dat rebase |
| 15:35 |
Bmagic |
what time on Friday? |
| 15:36 |
Bmagic |
sleary: wanna take it to the mailing list? |
| 15:36 |
abneiman |
@quote add <terranm> All about dat rebase |
| 15:36 |
pinesol |
abneiman: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). |
| 15:36 |
sleary |
sure |
| 15:36 |
Bmagic |
sweet, I'll be there if I can |
| 15:36 |
Dyrcona |
@quote add <terranm> All about that rebase. |
| 15:36 |
pinesol |
Dyrcona: The operation succeeded. Quote #242 added. |
| 15:37 |
abneiman |
thanks, lol |
| 15:37 |
Bmagic |
the conversation seems to be winding down. We have another topic to go over |
| 15:37 |
Bmagic |
#topic New Business - Dev documentation: volunteer needed to update versioning page |
| 15:37 |
csharp_ |
re: bugs (and I'm not trying to call anyone out, just showing an example) see bug 1017990 - the last comment shows a dev needing to verify a particular use case that might need to be considered, then there's not a follow-up - so a bug with a proposed branch has lingered - my point is that the bug needs to be left in an actionable state |
| 15:37 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 1017990 in Evergreen "Possible to bypass holds placement limits via direct API calls" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017990 |
| 15:37 |
Bmagic |
#link https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=versioning |
| 15:37 |
abneiman |
is it winding down? I think we should hear from other devs / committers |
| 15:37 |
csharp_ |
maybe this is the "needsdiscussion" discussion, but thought I'd mention why I don't complete bugs some of the time |
| 15:38 |
Dyrcona |
csharp_: I think that bug should be marked invalid. I think it is acceptable to bypass the holds limits that way. |
| 15:38 |
csharp_ |
Dyrcona: ha! so maybe it does need actual discussion :-) |
| 15:39 |
Dyrcona |
needsdiscussion is the tag where bugs go to die. |
| 15:39 |
Bmagic |
:), nevermind on the winding down |
| 15:39 |
kmlussier |
Oh, my. That's an old bug. I even have comments on it. |
| 15:39 |
abneiman |
Dyrcona: curious if you have an alternate suggestion? |
| 15:40 |
mmorgan |
Regarding test environments - community ones that can be checked out exclusively would be great |
| 15:40 |
terranm |
Maybe we need to have a needsdiscussion cleanup party, too |
| 15:40 |
redavis |
Bmagic++ mmorgan++ |
| 15:40 |
sleary |
terranm++ |
| 15:40 |
Dyrcona |
abneiman: I'd have to read the whole bug and comments again, but I recall my initial reaction to the bug being filed was "that isn't a bug, it's a feature." |
| 15:41 |
dluch |
terranm++ |
| 15:41 |
mmorgan |
But I find a docker of virtualbox vm where I have full access is more useful. |
| 15:41 |
terranm |
Also agree that check-outable community dev environments would be awesome |
| 15:41 |
abneiman |
Dyrcona: I meant about the process in general, not that specific bug |
| 15:41 |
* mmorgan |
always needs access to the database |
| 15:41 |
kmlussier |
mmorgan: I used to do that with the masslnc server, but that server is long gone. |
| 15:41 |
jeffdavis |
We're moving to a new environment later in the year that may be able to support a few dev VMs for committers, can't promise anything but I'll discuss with my org if that's useful |
| 15:41 |
csharp_ |
abneiman: i.e., alternative to "needsdiscussion"? |
| 15:42 |
terranm |
jeffdavis++ |
| 15:42 |
kmlussier |
IIRC the Koha community used to have an automated way of handling that. |
| 15:42 |
Bmagic |
mmorgan: I'm thinking the same: full access to root on a VM. |
| 15:42 |
abneiman |
there's only 101 bugs tagged needsdiscussion out of 3106 open ones, so I'd argue the issue isn't needsdiscussion, it's general bug languishment |
| 15:42 |
Dyrcona |
For me, it's mostly a matter of time. I have a lot of other stuff going on. Also, I notice several committers seem to be in a similar boat and don't participate as much as they used to. |
| 15:42 |
Bmagic |
(or docker machine) |
| 15:43 |
Dyrcona |
I think we have a resource bottleneck when it comes to people with the time to devote. There are some processes that might help. |
| 15:43 |
csharp_ |
docker makes sense to me, but it adds some overhead |
| 15:43 |
Dyrcona |
+1 to Docker |
| 15:44 |
abneiman |
so I'm just throwing this out there - a lot of work goes into, and gets accomplished, in bug squashing weeks. Lower effort / less work accomplished (but still important work getting accomplished) in the code review sessions but they don't often have senior committers show up, except for sandbergja. Trust me I am very sympathetic to time constraints on devs. |
| 15:44 |
abneiman |
but what I'm wondering is, is there a middle way? |
| 15:44 |
Bmagic |
I could tailor make a container for anyone who wants to host it (including us), for the purpose of including someone's key so they can ssh into the container and go to town |
| 15:45 |
dluch |
We might be able to help with VMs...have to discuss internally, though |
| 15:45 |
abneiman |
Monthly half-day open code reviews or the like, with rotating responsibilty for hosting / VMs? |
| 15:45 |
csharp_ |
Bmagic: for me/us, the networking piece is an issue - PINES/GPLS machines are behind a finicky firewall :-/ |
| 15:45 |
Dyrcona |
We're supposed to be requiring test plans and release notes, so enforce that. (I've been adding them for my recent branches.) |
| 15:45 |
csharp_ |
but we can talk logistics at that level later |
| 15:45 |
abneiman |
and a committment from each senior committer to attend 1 per year or something |
| 15:46 |
kmlussier |
abneiman: I think a middle way is desireable. Smaller and more consistent contributions is a better approach than a mass of contributions / review happening at the same time. |
| 15:46 |
Bmagic |
csharp_: cool, I'm sure we can figure something out |
| 15:46 |
csharp_ |
abneiman: I'll start showing up |
| 15:46 |
abneiman |
csharp_++ |
| 15:46 |
kmlussier |
To Dyrcona's point, with so many new core committers, have they received onboarding telling them they should be looking for these requirements and asking for them when needed? |
| 15:47 |
terranm |
For me, it's actually easier to set aside time on my calendar for a big chunk of time during bug squashing week than it is to do a little bit here and there. That might just be a "me" thing though. |
| 15:47 |
Dyrcona |
Well. that's something that I thought of last week, and don't recall if I mentioned it. We ought to have something for new core committers. |
| 15:47 |
abneiman |
kmlussier: yes, that's what I'm thinking - small & consistent, not everyone has to be at EVERY thing but can everyone be at A thing? Bonus if some learning transfer can happen from long-term committers to newer committers? |
| 15:48 |
Dyrcona |
it's easier for me, if I can schedule it ahead of time, and bug squashing week is good because we encourage staff here to participate. |
| 15:48 |
dluch |
abneiman++ |
| 15:48 |
csharp_ |
terranm: +1 - was going to say earlier that rhythm/momentum (and lack thereof) is a problem for me in EG community dev |
| 15:48 |
dluch |
+1 to onboarding new committers--that seems really important |
| 15:48 |
terranm |
We walk through the committing process most weeks during the code review session |
| 15:49 |
csharp_ |
it's not just a matter of time/tuits - I just need to develop better habits |
| 15:49 |
abneiman |
I'm just trying to think about ways to spread the load - if more people are doing things, we're relying less on the community unicorns (you know who you are lol) to shoulder so much |
| 15:50 |
dluch |
++ |
| 15:50 |
Dyrcona |
I've also been burned by not testing some big things thoroughly enough, so I like to set aside at least a day to test even small things. |
| 15:50 |
redavis |
(if you're in this meeting, you're a community unicorn) |
| 15:50 |
Bmagic |
redavis++ |
| 15:50 |
sleary |
kmlussier gmcharlt_ went over things with me, but I don't think there is much written down in the wiki on going from contributor to committer |
| 15:51 |
dluch |
redavis++ |
| 15:51 |
csharp_ |
🦄🦄🦄 |
| 15:51 |
kmlussier |
redavis: No, I'm just here because I like talking to all of you. |
| 15:51 |
Bmagic |
we're coming up on our hour yall |
| 15:51 |
sandbergja |
Dyrcona made me think of something that would be helpful for me: if there is a way we could run the tests against each pull request automatically. |
| 15:51 |
Dyrcona |
kmlussier: If you do want the commit bit back, just let me know. I can do it without a vote. :) |
| 15:51 |
sandbergja |
That green checkbox in Github saying "your tests passed" really helps me in other open source projects |
| 15:52 |
kmlussier |
redavis brought up earlier the idea of talkng about this at the hackfest. I've been thinking it might be worthwhile to have a monthly meeting where we could focus on one problem we want to solve. Because we could talk about this all day. |
| 15:52 |
Bmagic |
sandbergja: yes! a container that lauches with a branch and runs the test and dumps the results |
| 15:52 |
* csharp_ |
feels us teetering on the edge of the "move Git" discussion - keep his mouth shut |
| 15:52 |
sandbergja |
it wouldn't catch everything for sure, but it would provide a bit of a confidence boost |
| 15:52 |
kmlussier |
Dyrcona: I won't ask for it back unless I know I have the time to contribute. |
| 15:52 |
redavis |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:53 |
Bmagic |
ok, yall wanna cover this one now? |
| 15:53 |
Bmagic |
#topic New Business - Dev documentation: volunteer needed to update versioning page |
| 15:53 |
* dluch |
envisioning Captain America's "I can do this all day..." |
| 15:54 |
jeff |
Is there more detail behind the request? Mailing list thread, etc? |
| 15:54 |
sleary |
no, this came up when the release team met this morning |
| 15:55 |
sleary |
we can put it on the mailing list |
| 15:55 |
Bmagic |
https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=versioning |
| 15:55 |
jeff |
Are we talking about freshening up the examples and the OpenSRF / PostgreSQL deps? |
| 15:55 |
Bmagic |
ok, good idea, mailling list |
| 15:55 |
abneiman |
OTOH I think more automated testing is always going to be a good thing but I will not teeter us into "move git" today |
| 15:55 |
sleary |
move Git tomorrow ;) |
| 15:55 |
Bmagic |
#topic New Business - Possible hackfest (or other date) discussion on Evergreen releases - see email (Kathy) |
| 15:55 |
Bmagic |
#link http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/evergreen-dev/2024-February/000740.html |
| 15:56 |
sandbergja |
heh |
| 15:56 |
kmlussier |
It's late, so I just want to know if there is support for this discussion and whether you want me to facilitate it. I'm okay with it if you don't want me there. |
| 15:56 |
sandbergja |
yes please!!! |
| 15:56 |
Bmagic |
kmlussier: yes, I for one support this discussion |
| 15:56 |
sleary |
kmlussier please do! |
| 15:56 |
kmlussier |
Also, I would like to suggest we not do it during the hackfest, but plan another day for it so that you all can accomplish other things during the hackfest. But I'll be happy to do it whenever. |
| 15:56 |
dluch |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:56 |
Bmagic |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:57 |
mmorgan |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:57 |
sleary |
+1 to not during hackfest |
| 15:57 |
abneiman |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:57 |
kmlussier |
Again, I think we have plenty of big picture things we're working on to plan monthly in-depth discussions. |
| 15:57 |
jeff |
+1 to discussion and +1 to not-hackfest |
| 15:57 |
dluch |
+1 to not-hackfest, too. Especially since all the IGs are meeting then |
| 15:57 |
jeff |
are we thinking epic zoom call, or something else? |
| 15:57 |
abneiman |
and also +1 to not doing it durning hackfest, since hackfest is positioned between slush & freeze for 3.13 |
| 15:57 |
kmlussier |
OK, I'll begin planning for something post conference. |
| 15:57 |
* abneiman |
waves the wild flag of subtle hint at the devs |
| 15:58 |
Bmagic |
its it's own thing |
| 15:58 |
* csharp_ |
lets his freak flag fly |
| 15:58 |
kmlussier |
jeff: I'm thinking Zoom, but also offering opportunities for writen feedback for those who are not comfortable with speaking up. |
| 15:58 |
dluch |
EPIC.ZOOM.CALL |
| 15:58 |
jeff |
kmlussier: sounds good! |
| 15:58 |
Dyrcona |
csharp_: You're too late. I cut my hair Saturday. |
| 15:58 |
Bmagic |
kmlussier: while you're up |
| 15:58 |
Bmagic |
#topic Community calendar (Kathy) |
| 15:58 |
csharp_ |
Dyrcona: I almost did |
| 15:59 |
Dyrcona |
csharp_: I wonder why. :) |
| 15:59 |
csharp_ |
Dyrcona++ |
| 15:59 |
kmlussier |
I added this to the agenda because the releases still seem to be on the old dev calendar. Are the devs still maintaining that calendar or should everything be moved to the communtiy calendar? |
| 15:59 |
kmlussier |
I know I could have posted the question to the list, but I was already editing the wiki page and went wild with it. |
| 15:59 |
Bmagic |
oh! I thought the old calendar was dead |
| 15:59 |
* sleary |
had no idea there was a dev calendar |
| 16:00 |
csharp_ |
kmlussier: I think that ^^ answers your question |
| 16:00 |
abneiman |
yeah, I think old calendar is dead |
| 16:00 |
dluch |
Yeah, I thought everything was supposed to go on the community calendar now |
| 16:00 |
sleary |
we should use the community calendar for everything, yes |
| 16:00 |
Dyrcona |
kmlussier: I can move them, I think, if that's the consensus. |
| 16:00 |
Bmagic |
delete the old calendar so there is no confusion |
| 16:00 |
abneiman |
new calendar doesn't have release dates, but we just decided them this morning, and I can add those to community calendar |
| 16:00 |
kmlussier |
Dyrcona++ Thanks! |
| 16:00 |
sleary |
just be careful about alarms on those events :) |
| 16:00 |
csharp_ |
@blame The Old Calendar |
| 16:00 |
pinesol |
csharp_: The Old Calendar 's bugfix broke csharp_'s feature! |
| 16:00 |
dluch |
lol |
| 16:01 |
dluch |
Dyrcona++ |
| 16:01 |
kmlussier |
abneiman: The point release dates were recurring and neverending as far as I can tell. |
| 16:01 |
Dyrcona |
I was think of the point releases, is that correct, or are we talking about something else? |
| 16:01 |
csharp_ |
@praise The Community Calendar |
| 16:01 |
* pinesol |
The Community Calendar can count to 1 billion |
| 16:01 |
abneiman |
ah yes forgot about those |
| 16:01 |
abneiman |
Dyrcona++ |
| 16:01 |
Bmagic |
but does it have sharks with laser beams? Are they ill tempered? |
| 16:01 |
terranm |
pinesol++ |
| 16:01 |
abneiman |
+1 to moving them |
| 16:01 |
abneiman |
and +1 to deleting the old calendar |
| 16:01 |
sleary |
Dyrcona++ # thanks! |
| 16:02 |
kmlussier |
Thanks all for letting me pretend I'm still a dev today! :) |
| 16:02 |
csharp_ |
@band add Frickin' Laser Beams |
| 16:02 |
pinesol |
csharp_: Band 'Frickin' Laser Beams' added to list |
| 16:02 |
mmorgan |
+1 to moving point releases and deleting the old dev calendar |
| 16:02 |
Bmagic |
csharp_++ |
| 16:02 |
abneiman |
kmlussier: you can checkout any time you like but you can never leave! |
| 16:02 |
kmlussier |
abneiman: I tried. Won't try it again. |
| 16:03 |
Bmagic |
I'll release everyone, but you can stay and chat if you want! |
| 16:03 |
Bmagic |
#info Next Meeting is Tuesday, April 9th 2024 |
| 16:03 |
abneiman |
kmlussier++ # one of us |
| 16:03 |
Bmagic |
#endmeeting |
| 16:03 |
pinesol |
Meeting ended Tue Mar 12 16:03:28 2024 US/Eastern. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 16:03 |
pinesol |
Minutes: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2024/evergreen.2024-03-12-15.00.html |
| 16:03 |
pinesol |
Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2024/evergreen.2024-03-12-15.00.txt |
| 16:03 |
pinesol |
Log: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2024/evergreen.2024-03-12-15.00.log.html |
| 16:03 |
terranm |
Bmagic++ |
| 16:03 |
abneiman |
Bmagic++ |
| 16:03 |
collum |
Bmagic++ |
| 16:03 |
smayo |
Bmagic++ |
| 16:03 |
sandbergja |
Bmagic++ |
| 16:03 |
mmorgan |
Bmagic++ |
| 16:03 |
dluch |
Bmagic++ |
| 16:04 |
Bmagic |
thank you thank you, I'd like to thank my pet gator and.. my parents! |
| 16:04 |
redavis |
Bmagic++ |
| 16:04 |
kmlussier |
Bmagic++ |
| 16:04 |
* kmlussier |
returns to being an administrator for the rest of the day. |
| 16:04 |
JBoyer |
"The Old Calendar" has me thinking about "This Old Calendar" where Tom Silva explains that it's going to be tricky to repair because the rot is in a load-bearing event. |
| 16:04 |
Dyrcona |
Turns out I can't edit the community calendar to move the events from the dev calendar. |
| 16:05 |
kmlussier |
JBoyer++ |
| 16:05 |
|
kmlussier left #evergreen |
| 16:05 |
* jeff |
hastily exports the history from some calendars amonst all the talk of deletion |
| 16:05 |
redavis |
Y'all are awesome. Peacin' out. |
| 16:06 |
dluch |
JBoyer++ |
| 16:07 |
sleary |
Dyrcona send an email to evergreen-outreach list.evergreen-ils.org and someone will get you sorted out |
| 16:07 |
Bmagic |
Dyrcona: I copied the "Monthly maintenance/point release" event over just now |
| 16:07 |
sleary |
I can add events, but I don't think I can manage users. |
| 16:09 |
|
jihpringle joined #evergreen |
| 16:14 |
|
jvwoolf joined #evergreen |
| 16:29 |
abneiman |
I went ahead and moved the March point release to 27th, as decided earlier |
| 16:30 |
mmorgan |
abneiman++ |
| 16:36 |
Dyrcona |
I still have the old calendars in my feed. I'll have to remove them. |
| 16:36 |
Dyrcona |
abneiman++ Bmagic++ |
| 16:38 |
Bmagic |
well, our wiki seems to be down |
| 16:38 |
Bmagic |
while I was using it... great |
| 16:39 |
Bmagic |
it back |
| 16:39 |
Bmagic |
phew |
| 17:03 |
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Topic for #evergreen is now Welcome to #evergreen (https://evergreen-ils.org). This channel is publicly logged. Logs for today: http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/evergreen/today |
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| 23:11 |
rickyrnt |
Hey, I have been trying to set up evergreen on my ubuntu server and keep running into errors with apache and postgres. Where can I find help for that? |
