| Time |
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| 08:53 |
graced |
good morning, Evergreen |
| 08:56 |
Dyrcona |
Good morning, graced! |
| 08:56 |
graced |
Good morning, Dyrcona! |
| 08:56 |
graced |
it was too quiet in here... |
| 08:56 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 08:57 |
graced |
@coffee |
| 08:57 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a cup of Colombia Tolima Reynel Perez Micro-Lot, and sends it sliding down the bar to graced |
| 08:57 |
graced |
mmmm... coffee |
| 08:57 |
kmlussier |
Good morning graced! |
| 09:04 |
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| 09:12 |
Dyrcona |
berick: Are you doing a release today? |
| 09:12 |
* Dyrcona |
also wonders if doing 2.9.3 today will interfere with gmcharlt's plans for 2.10.0 tomorrow? |
| 09:19 |
rhamby |
coffee is nectar of life ... at least before nooon |
| 09:20 |
graced |
after noon it is the nemesis of sleep |
| 09:21 |
rhamby |
I usually switch to tea then which reminds me to make a note to bring a box of earl grey in next week. |
| 09:21 |
* kmlussier |
switches between tea and coffee all day long |
| 09:25 |
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| 09:29 |
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| 09:39 |
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| 09:43 |
Dyrcona |
rhamby kmlussier: In the words of the late, great Warren Zevon: "I'll sleep when I'm dead." |
| 09:44 |
Dyrcona |
;) |
| 09:44 |
rhamby |
Dyrcona++ |
| 09:46 |
Bmagic |
Does anyone have a report template on action.hold_request that shows the titles on outstanding holds for all of the hold types? When showing the title, it seems that I am only getting title level holds |
| 09:50 |
berick |
Dyrcona: i wasn't planning on *not* doing a release ;) |
| 09:50 |
* berick |
goes in search of his release cutting pants |
| 10:01 |
tsbere |
Bmagic: You need to pass through "Hold Request Record" for all hold types |
| 10:02 |
* tsbere |
isn't actually positive that link is visible in the reporter, but he uses it fairly often |
| 10:03 |
tsbere |
I tend to write out of evergreen reports more than in evergreen ones due to having fairly complicated conditions involved. >_> |
| 10:06 |
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| 10:06 |
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| 10:15 |
Dyrcona |
berick: Well, I'll get started on 2.9.3 after lunch, unless gmcharlt has any objections. |
| 10:16 |
gmcharlt |
Dyrcona: sounds good; I don't know have any must-backport-now things that aren't already in rel_2_9 |
| 10:16 |
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| 10:16 |
gmcharlt |
Dyrcona++ |
| 10:16 |
Dyrcona |
gmcharlt++ |
| 10:20 |
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| 10:21 |
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| 10:29 |
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| 11:04 |
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| 11:16 |
Dyrcona |
VM build fails because of hash sum mismatch on apt-get update.... |
| 11:16 |
Dyrcona |
I just successfully updated the hardware not 15 minutes ago. |
| 11:26 |
Bmagic |
tsbere: my template is using "Hold Request -> Hold Request Record -> Bibliographic Record :: Simple Record Extracts -> Title" |
| 11:28 |
tsbere |
Bmagic: Odd, then things should be fine unless your holds are targeting deleted parts or something... |
| 11:29 |
tsbere |
Or no longer existing metarecords, I guess |
| 11:29 |
Bmagic |
tsbere: ok, I will take a closer look |
| 11:30 |
csharp |
Dyrcona: just blow away /var/cache/apt/archives |
| 11:31 |
csharp |
(or the contents therein, rather) |
| 11:31 |
Dyrcona |
csharp: It's fixed, now. |
| 11:31 |
csharp |
ah cool |
| 11:31 |
Dyrcona |
I dunno if doing apt-get -f update fixed it or if something changed on the repo side of things. |
| 11:32 |
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| 11:33 |
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| 11:36 |
Bmagic |
Back when I was asking about the mods32 template stuff, you all had directed me to config.xml_transform. But I seem to remember that there was more templates on disk somewhere. I am specifically looking for references to [local-name()="volumes"] |
| 11:55 |
berick |
Bmagic: there are other XSL templates in /openils/var/xsl |
| 11:55 |
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| 11:56 |
Bmagic |
The template toolkit looks like it is looping through an xsl path but really, it's using asset.uri as the model somehow. Where is the glue for that? |
| 11:58 |
berick |
Bmagic: ah, you're looking at the in-db unapi stuff |
| 11:58 |
berick |
Bmagic: in psql, see the unapi.* schema |
| 11:59 |
Bmagic |
I'm looking at misc_util.tt2 |
| 11:59 |
bshum |
unapi.auri function, probably |
| 11:59 |
Bmagic |
FOR volume IN xml.findnodes('//*[local-name()="volumes"]/*[local-name()="volume"]'); |
| 11:59 |
miker |
or, more likely, the holdings_xml function |
| 11:59 |
berick |
e.g.: select unapi.bre(1, 'marcxml', 'record', '{holdings_xml,mra,acp,acnp,acns,bmp,cbs}', 'CONS'); |
| 12:00 |
* berick |
pulled that from a tpac page load |
| 12:03 |
miker |
that "holdings_xml" listed in the 4th argument embeds (unsurprisingly) holdings data in xml within the marcxml from the bre. you're not going to see that pass through the xslt's stored in xml_transform, if you were thinking to index that data in the normal config.metabib_field way... |
| 12:03 |
Bmagic |
holy cow |
| 12:04 |
Bmagic |
I would like to read a custom subfield in the 856. $7 - it's looking more impossible with the current way that URI's are parsed for 856's with $9 |
| 12:05 |
miker |
Bmagic: for what purpose? you want to make a facet of the value in there? or make it searchable? |
| 12:05 |
Bmagic |
I was hoping to manipulate the url based on custom flags in the $7 inside the tt2 |
| 12:07 |
Bmagic |
but, I think I will go at it another way. Dyrcona had an idea of manipulating the URL in TT instead of updating the marc in the DB. I liked that idea. More info here bug1552409 |
| 12:07 |
miker |
ah. yeah, that'll be tough. is it old, custom data that is conventionally used by your libraries? |
| 12:08 |
miker |
oh, this is the redirection stuff! yeah, I was around for an earlier version of this chat :) |
| 12:08 |
miker |
I suggested using the use-restriction info, IIRC |
| 12:09 |
Bmagic |
I have some custom made scripts for retrieving marc from various electronic vendors, and importing them into Evergreen. I tag the 856's with a $7 for my own purposes, but it looks like I could use that in the TT for another reason as well |
| 12:09 |
Bmagic |
use_restrictions come from $z ? |
| 12:11 |
miker |
z or 2 or n, in that order, first one with data wins |
| 12:12 |
miker |
relevant plpgsql: uri_use := (oils_xpath('//*[@code="z"]/text()|//*[@code="2"]/text()|//*[@code="n"]/text()',uri_xml))[1]; |
| 12:12 |
Bmagic |
miker++ |
| 12:13 |
Bmagic |
thanks for the info - I will probably just change the URL in the marc though. The hoops are getting too large and the code would be too far from stock. |
| 12:38 |
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| 12:51 |
berick |
kmlussier: not sure if you've been following the release cutting talk... are you on board for release notes herding today? |
| 12:51 |
Dyrcona |
ha! ha! |
| 12:51 |
Dyrcona |
We were just chatting about that in a private conversation. :) |
| 12:51 |
kmlussier |
berick: Yeah, Dyrcona and I were just talking about it. I'm herding now |
| 12:51 |
berick |
kmlussier++ |
| 12:51 |
kmlussier |
berick: Give me about 30 minutes. |
| 12:51 |
Dyrcona |
kmlussier++ indeed! |
| 12:51 |
berick |
good timing, i guess |
| 12:51 |
berick |
kmlussier: no rush |
| 12:52 |
Dyrcona |
@praise kmlussier |
| 12:52 |
* pinesol_green |
Shall I compare kmlussier to a summer's day? kmlussier is more lovely and more temperate. |
| 12:53 |
kmlussier |
Awwww... pinesol_green appears to be wooing me. |
| 12:53 |
berick |
:) |
| 12:53 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 12:54 |
berick |
good thing Shakespeare didn't live in 2016 north carolina where it's 82 degrees in Winter. comparing someone to a summer's day would be a real insult. |
| 12:57 |
ethomsen1 |
Has anyone looked into linking between serial records using the 780/785 MARC tags (preceding & succeeding titles)? So the Journal of American Doorknobs becomes the International Journal of Doorknobs, you keep both records and use the linked titles to jump between records? |
| 13:04 |
Dyrcona |
ethomsen1: I haven't tried, but now I want a subscription to the International Journal of Doorknobs. |
| 13:08 |
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| 13:10 |
ethomsen1 |
Dyrcona: I'll sign you up! |
| 13:11 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 13:13 |
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| 13:14 |
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| 13:23 |
mceraso |
csharp++ hopkinsju++ and bshum++ #thankyou! |
| 13:24 |
* tsbere |
needs to reboot (possibly multiple times) due to needing to swap out windows components. :( |
| 13:25 |
Dyrcona |
Elvis has left the building... |
| 13:25 |
Dyrcona |
;) |
| 13:33 |
berick |
wonder if tsbere like's fried peanut butter and bananna sandwiches |
| 13:37 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 13:43 |
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| 13:53 |
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| 13:58 |
Dyrcona |
@praise 13 kmlussier for release notes. |
| 13:58 |
* pinesol_green |
kmlussier goes to eleven for release notes. |
| 13:59 |
kmlussier |
:) |
| 14:02 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Kathy Lussier] docs-2.8.7 release notes - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=213622d> |
| 14:02 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Kathy Lussier] Docs: 2.9.3 Release notes - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=61dae6c> |
| 14:05 |
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| 14:21 |
* berick |
commences cutting 2.8.7 |
| 14:21 |
* Dyrcona |
is doing the same for 2.9.3 |
| 14:23 |
JBoyer |
Chop, chop! |
| 14:23 |
JBoyer |
berick++ |
| 14:23 |
JBoyer |
Dyrcona++ |
| 14:23 |
JBoyer |
and an early |
| 14:23 |
JBoyer |
gmcharlt++ |
| 14:26 |
* kmlussier |
is going to impersonate yboston for the next 30 minutes. |
| 14:27 |
kmlussier |
I'm sending along a heads up that our IRC practice session will be starting in about 4 minutes, with our final search chat happening at 3 p.m. Eastern. |
| 14:31 |
kmlussier |
welcome to anyone that is here on IRC for the first time |
| 14:32 |
kmlussier |
Click this link for a presentation yboston made explaining how to get started with IRC: http://goo.gl/w3zml2 |
| 14:32 |
kmlussier |
if this is you first time on IRC, pelase say hello by just typing your message |
| 14:32 |
kmlussier |
I suppose I could have fixed the typo when copying and pasting. :) |
| 14:32 |
kmlussier |
for our regular IRC users, feel free to have short conversations until new users log in |
| 14:49 |
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| 14:49 |
kmlussier |
Hello sarahchilds! Welcome! |
| 14:50 |
sarahchilds |
Hello |
| 14:50 |
kmlussier |
Glad you could make it. |
| 14:51 |
sarahchilds |
Glad the library is open this afternoon |
| 14:51 |
kmlussier |
sarahchilds: I can't remember if you've been here before for one of yboston's IRC practice sessions, but here's his presentation in case you need a refresher. http://goo.gl/w3zml2 |
| 14:51 |
sarahchilds |
Ah, thanks. I've been here before, but it's been a while |
| 14:52 |
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| 14:52 |
kmlussier |
I think we're going to have a small group today. |
| 14:53 |
Dyrcona |
berick: Are you having trouble with the db creation scripts? |
| 14:54 |
miker |
kmlussier: are you recording the transcripts of these chats separately from the general IRC logs? and, would it be useful to point to those (in whatever form) for reference during today's? |
| 14:55 |
kmlussier |
Yes, I've been posting the logs here - http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=scratchpad:search:focus_groups |
| 14:56 |
kmlussier |
I've been using meetbot generally so that we can have a log that's separate from the traditional IRC logs and is prettied up a bit. |
| 14:57 |
kmlussier |
miker: Do you think it's useful to point people to the logs before the discussion or at the end? |
| 14:58 |
berick |
Dyrcona: if you are switching between master and 2.9, you'll have to ./configure again |
| 14:58 |
Dyrcona |
I'm building from the tarball and things seem really wrong. |
| 14:59 |
berick |
ah, haven't tried that yet. i'm building a 2.8.6 install now to test the upgrade script. will test my tarball in a few mins |
| 14:59 |
Dyrcona |
My server seems to be adding the unaccent extension or something, and then everything blows up. |
| 15:00 |
afterl |
kmlussier: I'm not miker, but I think having the logs handy during the discussion is a good idea - you can easily search on a word like "popular" like I just did to see if it had already been discussed |
| 15:00 |
Dyrcona |
No, unaccent is not in the list of extensions, but meeting.... |
| 15:01 |
kmlussier |
OK, I can do that. As a rule, we generally don't want previous discussion to color what people bring to the table today. But since I already posted a link to the logs in an email today, I suppose I already colored things. |
| 15:01 |
* kmlussier |
is going to need to start. Sorry! |
| 15:01 |
miker |
sorry, unexpected call |
| 15:01 |
miker |
kmlussier: I think it could be useful to point at before hand |
| 15:01 |
kmlussier |
#startmeeting 2016-03-16 - Evergreen focus group discussion on search |
| 15:01 |
pinesol_green |
Meeting started Wed Mar 16 15:01:54 2016 US/Eastern. The chair is kmlussier. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 15:01 |
pinesol_green |
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. |
| 15:01 |
pinesol_green |
The meeting name has been set to '2016_03_16___evergreen_focus_group_discussion_on_search' |
| 15:02 |
kmlussier |
#topic Introductions |
| 15:02 |
kmlussier |
Please introduce yourselves, as follows |
| 15:02 |
kmlussier |
#info kmlussier is Kathy Lussier, MassLNC |
| 15:02 |
miker |
#info miker == Mike Rylander, Equinox (in and out) |
| 15:02 |
afterl |
#info afterl is Amy Terlaga, Bibliomation |
| 15:03 |
sarahchilds |
#info sarahchilds is Sarah Childs (surprise), Hussey-Mayfield PL, Evergreen Indiana |
| 15:03 |
kmlussier |
While we wait for more people to join us, I'll post a link to our page where we have 1) ground rules for the discussion and 2) logs from our previous chats. |
| 15:04 |
kmlussier |
#link http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=scratchpad:search:focus_groups |
| 15:04 |
rhamby |
#info rhamby is Rogan Hamby, Equinox Software (mostly lurking) |
| 15:04 |
kmlussier |
Basically, this chat is an opportunity to talk about ideas for search. Although it's tempting, especially for technical folks, to get in the nitty gritty of how to make those ideas happen, we don't want to get bogged down in the details today. |
| 15:05 |
kmlussier |
We really want to focus on end results today. |
| 15:05 |
kmlussier |
Also, as is the case with any brainstorming, there are no stupid ideas. Feel free to share whatever ideas you have. And please don't be critical of others ideas. |
| 15:05 |
kmlussier |
However, I do encourage you to build upon each other's ideas. |
| 15:06 |
kmlussier |
I think we have a smaller turnout today than we have on other days, so I hope you all feel talkative! :) |
| 15:06 |
kmlussier |
I'm going to start our first topic, but if anyone comes in late, please feel free to introduce yourselves and join in. |
| 15:07 |
kmlussier |
#topic Strengths of current search |
| 15:07 |
kmlussier |
I want to start by asking people to identify what they like about the current Evergreen search. |
| 15:07 |
kmlussier |
What are its strengths? |
| 15:07 |
dbs |
@info dbs is Dan Scott, Laurentian University |
| 15:07 |
pinesol_green |
dbs: (info <url|feed>) -- Returns information from the given RSS feed, namely the title, URL, description, and last update date, if available. |
| 15:07 |
dbs |
#info dbs is Dan Scott, Laurentian University |
| 15:09 |
dbs |
Keyword searches work as a great default for us for the vast majority of searches |
| 15:09 |
afterl |
Search filters work relatively well |
| 15:10 |
sarahchilds |
Filters make good use of MARC data |
| 15:10 |
kmlussier |
dbs: And when you say they work well, is that because there is good coverage of the record? |
| 15:10 |
dbs |
kmlussier: seems to hit the most important bases, yep |
| 15:10 |
kmlussier |
OK, good. |
| 15:11 |
kmlussier |
And we like the advanced search filters and the fact they make use of the MARC data. |
| 15:11 |
kmlussier |
The reason I ask this question is because, if we make major changes to search, we want to make sure we don't lose the things that are already working well for us. |
| 15:11 |
kmlussier |
So think of the question in terms of things you don't want to lose. |
| 15:11 |
miker |
extensibility of search/filter configuration ... though "yay, lots of knobs!" / "boo, lots of knobs :(" |
| 15:12 |
kmlussier |
So there are pros and cons to the amount of configuration we have in search. |
| 15:12 |
kmlussier |
Is there anything Evergreen search has that you think makes it unique? |
| 15:13 |
* miker |
wonders if he should cheat and pull from yesterday's log :) |
| 15:13 |
sarahchilds |
It seems pretty rare to use fixed fields so extensively for filtering |
| 15:14 |
kmlussier |
miker: No cheating allowed. |
| 15:15 |
kmlussier |
Sorry, I purposely allow for quiet moments because it makes people think harder. |
| 15:15 |
miker |
:) |
| 15:15 |
kmlussier |
But I'll move on to the next topic. If you think of anything else while we're talking, feel free to shout it out. |
| 15:15 |
afterl |
kmlussier: so looks like we'll be reading yesterday's log on our own .... homework |
| 15:15 |
miker |
heh |
| 15:16 |
kmlussier |
afterl: I'll be compiling the results at some point if you want the Cliff Notes version. |
| 15:16 |
kmlussier |
#topic Areas for improvement |
| 15:16 |
afterl |
kmlussier: yes, thanks. Cliff Notes work |
| 15:16 |
kmlussier |
Where are the areas where you would like to see improvement? |
| 15:17 |
sarahchilds |
I'd like to see search provide suggestions based on authority records |
| 15:18 |
Bmagic |
#info Bmagic = Blake GH, MOBIUS |
| 15:18 |
kmlussier |
sarahchilds: OK, can you expand upon that? Is this in keyword searching? |
| 15:18 |
kmlussier |
Hi Bmagic! Welcome! |
| 15:18 |
afterl |
I'd like a true relevance/popularity blended search. And yes, that may force kmlussier to explain what's coming down the road, but maybe that's not allowed here (not the time and place)? |
| 15:19 |
sarahchilds |
Maybe. If you do a search for doctors, you could get a Did you mean: Physicians |
| 15:19 |
kmlussier |
sarahchilds: Ah, I see. So it's a "Did you mean?" but leveraging authority data. Gotcha. |
| 15:19 |
sarahchilds |
If you do a search for Samuel Clemens, it would suggest Mark Twain |
| 15:20 |
dbs |
I'd like to see grouping of search results based on external links to, say, OCLC Work Entities |
| 15:20 |
kmlussier |
To follow up on what afterl said, we do have activity metrics coming to search that afterl and I have been testing. But the blending of popularity with relevance is tricky. And we're still working on it / testing it. |
| 15:21 |
kmlussier |
dbs: Can you give me an example of a search that would use that and how the info would be presented to the user? |
| 15:24 |
dbs |
kmlussier: sure. A regular search for "Huckleberry Finn" would give you all of the hits for "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" based on keywords |
| 15:24 |
dbs |
but using links to OCLC Work Entities, you could group those records even if they were in different languages and the words appeared nowhere in the record |
| 15:25 |
kmlussier |
Ah, nice! Thanks for the explanation dbs! |
| 15:26 |
kmlussier |
Are there features you've seen in other search systems that you would like to see implemented in Evergreen? Things that haven't been mentioned yet. |
| 15:28 |
dbs |
I wish we could offer a single search across not just books but blended with articles, items in our institutional repository, etc, but that's probably out of scope for Evergreen |
| 15:29 |
kmlussier |
dbs: Well, for the purposes of this discussion, I don't think we should say anything is out of scope for the project, because if it's turns out to be something a lot of Evergreen users want to see, then maybe it becomes part of the scope at some point. |
| 15:29 |
kmlussier |
dbs: But I also think a search like that needs to be handled well so that the user doesn't get lost in results. |
| 15:29 |
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| 15:29 |
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| 15:30 |
JBoyer |
dbs: that could be part of a project making Evergreen easier to connect to a discovery system, which would probably touch on search. :) |
| 15:30 |
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| 15:30 |
kmlussier |
Are there other parts of search that just drive your users crazy? Or would you say that, overall, they are fairly happy with the existing search? |
| 15:30 |
kmlussier |
JBoyer: That's a good point. |
| 15:30 |
kmlussier |
Hi terran! |
| 15:31 |
terran |
So sorry I'm late, it's my first day back in the office and I'm pulling my hair out! |
| 15:31 |
kmlussier |
terran: We're just talking about ways we would like to improve search. Do you have any improvements you would like to see? |
| 15:32 |
afterl |
This was talked about awhile back (we were going to do development but it never panned out), and Evergreen doesn't do this now, I don't think, and I will be embarrassed if it can now, but having the search terms highlighted in the results (on the display record) would be nice. |
| 15:32 |
terran |
The main complaint we get is search speed. |
| 15:32 |
rhamby |
overall my experience with users is that they are pretty happy with existing search and keyword search with the one major qualifier to that being that they want records to float the top based on activity (which is in progress) |
| 15:32 |
rhamby |
with that said, many of these other ideas that have come out of these I'm sure would be welcome as well |
| 15:32 |
kmlussier |
terran: Thanks terran! |
| 15:32 |
sarahchilds |
Users hate when they do a search for a particular title and the item they are looking for shows up low in the results |
| 15:33 |
terran |
Most of our users would also like the most popular records to float nearer the top on keyword or title searches. |
| 15:33 |
kmlussier |
sarahchilds: So improvements in relevance. Do you find there are specific problems in relevance that cause those records to appear low in the list? |
| 15:34 |
terran |
And of course, a good "did you mean...?" service to accommodate mis-spellings and related topics |
| 15:35 |
sarahchilds |
One of the issues I get complaints about is that our users expect to be weighed more heavily |
| 15:35 |
kmlussier |
terran / rhamby: On the popularity front, afterl had brought this up earlier, but there is an ongoing project as rhamby noted, but, from early testing, we're also looking at ways to better blend bib relevance with popularity. Which is tricky. |
| 15:35 |
sarahchilds |
expect *title* to be weighed more heavily |
| 15:35 |
kmlussier |
sarahchilds: Thanks! Then field-weighting is important. |
| 15:36 |
terran |
Yes, I strongly agree with weighing title (and primary author) more heavily |
| 15:36 |
kmlussier |
I know there is some ability to configure field-weighting in Evergreen, but I think implementation might not be consistent across the board. As my follow up on these chats, I hope to identify where more documentation may be needed too. |
| 15:36 |
rhamby |
it is and relevance is going to take on different aspects to different audiences. a public library that heavily circulates new best sellers is going to be well served by new active titles floating the top. An academic library I would see as very different in how they want to determine relevance. |
| 15:37 |
sarahchilds |
rhamby: agreed |
| 15:38 |
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| 15:38 |
kmlussier |
Things I'm seeing in areas for improvement, then, are "Did you Mean?", leveraging authority data in keyword searches, blending popularity with relevance, grouping of search results based on external links, improved speed, and improved relevance. |
| 15:39 |
kmlussier |
Did I miss anything? |
| 15:40 |
kmlussier |
If not, I'm going to move on to the next topic, which is something we were just discussion. |
| 15:40 |
kmlussier |
#topic Defining relevance |
| 15:40 |
kmlussier |
I often hear that people want to improve relevance, but, as rhamby just mentioned, what is relevant for one person may not be for another. |
| 15:40 |
terran |
<admits to getting completely lost trying to understand field weighting in the current system> |
| 15:41 |
kmlussier |
So I think it's important that we define what we mean by relevance. |
| 15:41 |
kmlussier |
terran: That's a good point. So I wonder if there is a suggested improvement in there for making it easier / more understandable to turn the knobs? |
| 15:41 |
afterl |
I would support that improvement |
| 15:42 |
kmlussier |
What are the factors that you think are important for the system to consider when calculating relevance? |
| 15:42 |
kmlussier |
A few have already been mentioned: field weighting, popularity. |
| 15:42 |
terran |
field weighting: documentation on what the options mean along with a working example or two with detailed explanation would be most helpful |
| 15:42 |
kmlussier |
Are there other factors? |
| 15:43 |
kmlussier |
Or other specific areas where you see relevance falling short? |
| 15:43 |
terran |
relevance: I think it might be useful to look at titles with the most copies being considered more relevant |
| 15:43 |
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| 15:43 |
sarahchilds |
terran: yes! |
| 15:44 |
kmlussier |
terran: Ok, is that because you see that as one way libraries define that one record may be more important than others? |
| 15:44 |
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| 15:45 |
sarahchilds |
lots of copies would be one metric of popularity |
| 15:45 |
terran |
yes - at least for large public libraries and fiction, the more popular an item is, the more copies there will likely be |
| 15:46 |
kmlussier |
Thanks! |
| 15:46 |
terran |
Titles with a large number of holds would also indicate popularity |
| 15:46 |
kmlussier |
Any other factors you think are important for relevance. |
| 15:46 |
sarahchilds |
Also in a consortium, even if everyone has only one copy, if most libraries own it, that indicates popularity as well |
| 15:46 |
Bmagic |
I just caught up with the convo, forgive me, a call came in during this meeting. I have had problems getting the search results I want. Relevance is one reason, and title searches being so limiting is another reason |
| 15:47 |
terran |
sarachilds: true! |
| 15:47 |
kmlussier |
To give a little background on the activity metric, titles with a large number of holds and circs are all types of activity that scores a badge for a record. But I don't want to go to deep into the details here. |
| 15:47 |
kmlussier |
It doesn't cover total # of copies, but you typically find that you get higher circs on those records with more copies. |
| 15:47 |
Bmagic |
When I get 0 search results, I would like it to instead go ahead and do another similar search that will return something |
| 15:47 |
terran |
kmlussier: yes, I'm really interested in that project that you're working on |
| 15:47 |
kmlussier |
Bmagic: Can you tell expand upon what you mean when you say title searches are limiting? |
| 15:47 |
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| 15:48 |
kmlussier |
Bmagic: Also, I would be interested in hearing where you would like to see improvements in relevance. |
| 15:49 |
Bmagic |
The title index isn't the same as keyword by design, but (also by design) it's not encompassing what some of us consider to be the title. I don't know, basically, it needs to "learn" from popular searches |
| 15:49 |
sarahchilds |
Bmagic: I wouldn't want it to *do* the search, but I'd want it to suggest a meaningful alternative |
| 15:49 |
terran |
Bmagic: I like that idea, or to at least suggest options for other searches when there are 0 results. |
| 15:50 |
kmlussier |
Bmagic: Ah, that's interesting. So you're looking for something that can learn from user behavior? |
| 15:50 |
JBoyer |
I realize this would require a ton of work for little visual improvement, but I'll mention it just so it's known: a re-architecting that removes the need for a core limit of records returned would be helpful. (i.e. we have a lib that can't be searched for a common keyword unless the core_limit is close to 80K...) |
| 15:51 |
JBoyer |
"A ton of work" may be an understatement, also. :) |
| 15:51 |
Bmagic |
I think that might be a possible solution. Search phrasing is remembered, and called back on future searches to help the next individual |
| 15:51 |
sarahchilds |
JBoyer: Yes!!! Not returning any results when there are results to be returned is so not cool |
| 15:51 |
kmlussier |
JBoyer: Thanks for that! But I don't want the "ton of work" ideas to go unmentioned, because maybe a ton of work is ultimately needed. Or maybe not. |
| 15:52 |
terran |
JBoyer: I agree. |
| 15:52 |
kmlussier |
OK, we're reaching the eight-minute mark, so I want to move on to my final question. |
| 15:52 |
kmlussier |
#topic Top-priority improvements |
| 15:53 |
kmlussier |
If you could only make two improvements to Evergreen search, what would they be? |
| 15:53 |
afterl |
It's been said before, but SPEED |
| 15:53 |
kmlussier |
Basically, what do you consider to be the most important issues? |
| 15:53 |
terran |
1) Speed |
| 15:53 |
terran |
2) did you mean? |
| 15:53 |
sarahchilds |
Hard to argue with speed |
| 15:53 |
kmlussier |
This is why we have 2 instead of 1. The 1st time around it was all speed. |
| 15:54 |
Bmagic |
Speed, 0 or few results automatically expanded to popular related searches |
| 15:54 |
kmlussier |
JBoyer++ # Suggesting that we let people pick two. |
| 15:54 |
afterl |
And I really want to see that popularity/relevance blended search results |
| 15:55 |
kmlussier |
sarahchilds: Do you have a #2? |
| 15:55 |
terran |
Going back to earlier suggestions (since I was late) - I would also like a facet on the search results for audience type (is this possible in the current system already? I haven't delved into how facets work yet) |
| 15:55 |
sarahchilds |
It's too hard to choose! I love them all :-) |
| 15:56 |
kmlussier |
terran: If it is possible, I don't know how to do it. |
| 15:56 |
kmlussier |
terran: Thank you for adding that suggestion! |
| 15:56 |
terran |
Ooh, also a facet for fiction vs nonfiction |
| 15:57 |
kmlussier |
Ok, I might wrap up a little early. But is there anything else you had hoped we would cover today that we didn't? |
| 15:57 |
kmlussier |
terran: Yes, we also had one from a previous group on publicate date ranges. |
| 15:57 |
kmlussier |
publication, even |
| 15:58 |
terran |
One for language might be helpful for a lot of libraries, too |
| 15:58 |
kmlussier |
OK, I'm going to wrap up the meeting, then, but let me know if anything comes to mind later on. |
| 15:58 |
kmlussier |
Thanks everyone for sharing your ideas today! |
| 15:58 |
kmlussier |
#endmeeting |
| 15:58 |
pinesol_green |
Meeting ended Wed Mar 16 15:58:55 2016 US/Eastern. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 15:58 |
pinesol_green |
Minutes: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2016/evergreen.2016-03-16-15.01.html |
| 15:58 |
pinesol_green |
Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2016/evergreen.2016-03-16-15.01.txt |
| 15:58 |
pinesol_green |
Log: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2016/evergreen.2016-03-16-15.01.log.html |
| 15:58 |
terran |
kmlussier++ for corralling! |
| 15:59 |
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| 16:00 |
kmlussier |
Also, for those who missed the link earlier, logs from all the chats will be posted to http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=scratchpad:search:focus_groups |
| 16:00 |
afterl |
kmlussier++ |
| 16:00 |
kmlussier |
Most are there already; I'll add the one from today in a few seconds. |
| 16:02 |
dbs |
kmlussier++ |
| 16:03 |
Bmagic |
kmlussier++ |
| 16:04 |
miker |
kmlussier++ |
| 16:13 |
kmlussier |
yboston++ # Wrangling IRC Practice Sessions |
| 16:24 |
kmlussier |
berick: Is 2.8.7 ready for links to be added to the downloads page? |
| 16:25 |
berick |
kmlussier: yes! thanks |
| 16:26 |
kmlussier |
Dyrcona: I'm going to update the page, but I also just made you an Editor for the future. Can you check to see if you have the ability to edit the page now? |
| 16:27 |
kmlussier |
Or maybe I won't update the page right now. Looks like gmcharlt is already there. |
| 16:27 |
gmcharlt |
kmlussier: I shouldn't be; if there's an edit lock, it's stale |
| 16:27 |
kmlussier |
gmcharlt: OK, thanks! |
| 16:28 |
Dyrcona |
I get the Edit page widget, but I'm not editing it. |
| 16:33 |
Dyrcona |
berick: Do you want to port the 2.8.7 upgrade script to master and then I'll port 2.9.3? |
| 16:34 |
berick |
Dyrcona: yes, thanks for the reminder :) |
| 16:36 |
kmlussier |
Downloads page is updated. |
| 16:36 |
Dyrcona |
kmlussier++ |
| 16:36 |
kmlussier |
Let me know if I missed any links. |
| 16:39 |
* kmlussier |
needs to take a class in how to write shorter emails. |
| 16:48 |
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| 16:48 |
berick |
gmcharlt: no objections to merging 2.8/2.9 SQL upgrade scripts to into rel_2_10? |
| 16:49 |
gmcharlt |
berick: go ahead |
| 16:49 |
berick |
thx |
| 16:49 |
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| 16:50 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] Porting 2.8.6 -> 2.8.7 SQL upgrade - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=4172bed> |
| 16:58 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Jason Stephenson] Porting 2.9.2 to 2.9.3 database upgrade script. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=b38d0e8> |
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