IRC log for #evergreen, 2013-07-18

All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time	Nick	Message
00:52	jeff	hrm.
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08:48	* paxed	curses TemplateBatchBibUpdate.pm
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08:55	bradl	bshum: well, don't borrow any of my skills of getting anything done with Charter. I'm still down. :/
08:56	bradl	bshum: first tech never reported the tap was dead, so there is no record, so Charter sent yet another tech yesterday that again confirmed it's dead and needs replacing. Another 48 hours. "If it's not fixed by Monday, give us a call."
08:57	bradl	So that's four techs I've had at my house -- if you count the first one that never showed up.
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09:08	paxed	maybe i should just go on a rampage and add a bug for each file that has untranslatable strings...
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09:13	dbs	paxed: on the one hand, an organized list would be useful. on the other hand, most of us know that beyond the TPAC, there are many hardcoded and hard-to-convert-into-translatable strings. tracking one coherent list in, say, a wiki page, with plans for tackling said list, would probably be much more helpful than 60 or 100 new bugs
09:14	paxed	dbs: right
09:14	dbs	I found http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=i18n:problem_children and http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-admin:customizations:i18n:staff_client_progress helpful way back when
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09:21	paxed	dbs: ok, i'll look into this. maybe make a new page on the wiki for this...
09:23	paxed	dbs: my current major irritation is TemplateBatchBibUpdate.pm - it has hardcoded _web_pages_ in it... :(
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09:31	bshum	bradl: Ugh, that definitely sucks. Lucky for us, another charter tech came up later last evening to tell us that they had restored our connections.
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09:40	bradl	bshum: send that tech down here!
09:43	RoganH	A quick reminder - Hackaway 2013 Registration is open now and until 8/15 http://hackaway2013.eventbrite.com/
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10:12	jboyer-isl	RoganH: Is there a good place to find additional information, or would it be best to just search MarkMail?
10:12	RoganH	jboyer-isl: for the hack-a-way?
10:12	jboyer-isl	I haven't kept up with all of the details as close as I could, and I have to give a yay/nay soon.
10:12	jboyer-isl	Yes.
10:13	* moodaepo	remembers to update the website with the new releases
10:13	jboyer-isl	(Didn't realize it was so long between messages)
10:13	RoganH	the major details of when/where/expense are on the event brite site but you can also find them in markmail
10:13	jboyer-isl	Sounds good. Thanks
10:13	RoganH	as far as what will be done, since it's a hacking event that's really determined by the participants at the event
10:14	jboyer-isl	Well, this might be a good short-circuit question: Will there be time for some getting up to speed with development, or is the goal to really power through things that people have been too busy to tackle?
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10:15	eeevil	moodaepo: don't do that just yet, please
10:15	moodaepo	eeevil: ok
10:15	eeevil	they're both still in the "make sure they're not broken" phase
10:16	moodaepo	eeevil++
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10:25	dbs	jboyer-isl: I suspect there would be a) bits of time for devs who are not familiar with a given area to get up to speed on certain areas (websockets, security, testing come to mind from last hack-a-way); communication and coordination on critical areas; and powering through things that especially benefit from collaboration
10:26	dbs	It's not a "how to develop Evergreen bootcamp" though
10:26	jboyer-isl	Thanks.
10:27	* dbs	notes that he's not the organizer and might be off-base
10:27	jboyer-isl	Well, it can't be too much of that, or nothing else would get done.
10:28	RoganH	I think your statements are pretty accurate, Dan.
10:28	RoganH	It's not a bootcamp but I've never seen the devs not want to help someone get up to speed who might contribute.
10:28	jboyer-isl	I can think of a couple of things that would benefit from more eyes though, so we'll see.
10:28	RoganH	But the main focus is development and collaborating, not teaching.
10:28	rfrasur	kmlussier: Will EG2014 be in April?
10:29	jboyer-isl	The most I'd need is a little coaching on pushing to a contrib branch, I shouldn't have any "How are Javascript made?" questions. :)
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10:30	rfrasur	jboyer-isl: Are others in Indy/Indiana planning to attend that you know of?
10:30	jboyer-isl	It's me or nobody as far as I know.
10:31	kmlussier	rfrasur: In March
10:31	dbs	jboyer-isl: you have submitted a pubkey to the git admins?
10:32	jboyer-isl	Nope. Sounds like that's a good start.
10:32	rfrasur	jboyer-isl: okay
10:32	rfrasur	kmlussier: is it narrowed down to anything more definitive than March yet?
10:32	dbs	jboyer-isl: http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:git is reasonably accurate
10:33	* dbs	admits to disliking collab branches
10:33	kmlussier	Tentatively March 19-22, but until we have a signed contract, it still is tentative
10:33	dbs	a propos of nothing :)
10:34	jboyer-isl	Well, I don't expect anyone to give me access to Master. :)
10:34	Dyrcona	worldcat---
10:34	Dyrcona	worldcat--
10:34	kmlussier	Heh
10:34	dbs	Dyrcona: ?
10:34	Dyrcona	Someone just showed up at central site because world cat says we own something they're looking for.
10:35	Dyrcona	Central site, of course, doesn't hold anything.
10:35	rfrasur	kmlussier: thank you. I'll take tentative. Trying to schedule something else and don't want to conflict.
10:36	kmlussier	rfrasur: I think you're safe going with the tentative dates.
10:37	* rfrasur	marks them down
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10:47	rfrasur	kmlussier: csharp: anyone else that wants to chime in: how many libraries are in your consortium?
10:48	kmlussier	rfrasur: I work with three consortia
10:50	rfrasur	oh...I think we'd have to have a more indepth conversation then...prolly at another time, so I could figure out how the whole thing is managed...unless you have it all compiled into the proverbial elevator speech.
10:51	Dyrcona	rfrasur: Each consortium that kmlussier works with is independently managed. kmlussier coordinates cooperation among the 3 consortia.
10:52	rfrasur	do the consortia consort with one another?
10:52	Dyrcona	heh.
10:52	rfrasur	(I know it sounded silly, but I'm serious...mildly)
10:52	Dyrcona	rfrasur: I work with Merrimack Valley Library Consortium, one of the three that are part of MassLNC, where kmlussier works as coordinator.
10:53	Dyrcona	rfrasur: Yes, via MassLNC.
10:53	kmlussier	Sorry, I was doing some in-person chatting.
10:53	rfrasur	kmlussier: no worries
10:53	Dyrcona	http://masslnc.cwmars.org/
10:53	kmlussier	C/W MARS is the biggest consortium. tspindler can tell you what their numbers are, but I think it's around 150.
10:54	Dyrcona	rfrasur: MVLC has 35 (soon to be 36) members with 40 (soon to be 41) total branches.
10:54	Dyrcona	http://www.mvlc.org/
10:55	kmlussier	And NOBLE is the smallest consortium. Maybe 28 members? Is that right mmorgan?
10:55	kmlussier	C/W MARS and NOBLE are multi-type. MVLC is all publics.
10:55	* kmlussier	wanders back to the conference budget.
10:56	rfrasur	so, I'm assuming...since there are reps from each consortium...as well as MassLNC, that there are technical people at all levels...
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10:56	* Dyrcona	wanders back to working on migrating that soon to be member's data.
10:56	* rfrasur	will continue parsing while working on 2014 lib budget
10:56	Dyrcona	rfrasur: There are no technical staff at MassLNC.
10:56	* kmlussier	is MassLNC
10:56	Dyrcona	kmlussier++
10:57	rfrasur	so they're administration? kmlussier: it's just you?
10:57	kmlussier	rfrasur: Yes, it's just me, depending heavily on the great staff working at the 3 individual consortia.
10:57	rfrasur	kmlussier++
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10:58	Dyrcona	rfrasur: Each consortium runs its own Evergreen separate from the others. kmlussier coordinates cooperative ventures between the three.
10:59	rfrasur	okay...then, Dyrcona: how many people in your consortium are active in the EG community (beyond the consortium) or deal directly with sys admin?
11:00	Dyrcona	rfrasur: Do you mean outside of central site staff? And, what do you mean by "deal directly with sys admin?"
11:01	rfrasur	I mean both inside and outside of central site...but mostly inside. and nix the second question. it's too broad and I don't want to think how to narrow it down.
11:03	Dyrcona	rfrasur: At central site, I could say that 5 of are more or less active in the community, 3 are on most of the mailing lists, 1 of those 3 help with some documentation from time to time. The other 2, tsbere and myself, are on the mailing lists, active here, and have commit rights to the main code repository.
11:03	rfrasur	okay, ty
11:03	Dyrcona	tsbere also helps with managing the community repository.
11:04	Dyrcona	I have not seen much participation from our members' staff, though 1 person from chelmsford has emailed the general list.
11:04	Dyrcona	I think most of our members are still in the mindset that central site "deals with the vendor."
11:05	mmorgan	kmlussier: Right. NOBLE has 28 members.
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11:12	bshum	I would echo Dyrcona's statement for us too. Bibliomation staff are the ones most hooked into the community it seems.
11:16	rfrasur	okay - this gives me plenty to think about (although "thinking" gets annoying after awhile and "doing" is much more palatable)
11:20	rfrasur	dbwells: Is there anything that we should know about parking if we don't stay in the hotel for the hackaway?
11:21	rfrasur	or anything else?
11:23	Dyrcona	rfrasur: I should add that MVLC has been a consortium since the '80s, and so central site has always been the contact with the vendor, so breaking that habit may be hard.
11:24	Dyrcona	As for the hackaway, I'll stay a the hotel if I decide to go. The probability of that is approaching 1.
11:28	rfrasur	aye - and I don't think there's necessarily a right/wrong answer anyway as far as consortia go. It's inherently going to differ from one to the next. As far as the hackaway goes, obviously I have no business going at this point, but things could change...and if they did, I'd just stay with family rather than taking up a room that someone else could be using (plus, it'd be silly for me to pay for a room when I could have
11:28	rfrasur	"luxury" cough accommodations for free).
11:31	dbwells	rfrasur: parking near the library is generally difficult during the day, but there is ample parking in other areas of the campus.
11:31	rfrasur	would we need parking permits?
11:31	dbwells	no
11:31	rfrasur	excellent. thanks :-)
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11:35	kmlussier	rfrasur: I just wanted to add on to something Dyrcona just said. All three of the MassLNC consortia have been operating for around 30 years, so I do think the libraries have a history of seeing the consortium as the primary vendor contact. Bibliomation also has a long history.
11:36	kmlussier	I would be interested in hearing if it differs with those consortia that formed around Evergreen. Like SC LENDs.
11:39	rfrasur	Me too. I'm also interested in how various consortia manage Evergreen software (in-house; contractual support; something else I have no clue about) as well as broader governance.
12:06	bshum	For the life of me... has anyone seen the total bill number show up in red text instead of black? Apparently one of our libraries think this happens, but I can't find it.
12:07	bshum	Total bill showing underneath the "bills" button in the patron interface.
12:08	Dyrcona	bshum: Red usually means a deficit. If it does show up in red maybe it means the library owes the patron.
12:08	bshum	Aha!
12:08	Dyrcona	You should test that to be sure, though.
12:08	bshum	Yeah I'm checking now
12:09	bshum	Nope, it's still black for them too.
12:09	bshum	$-8.00 in black text
12:09	bshum	Not red.
12:09	mmorgan	bshum: actually, I see the red when the patron has exceeded the fine threshold
12:09	bshum	I think the library is imagining the red.
12:09	bshum	Hmm
12:10	Dyrcona	I've never seen it in red personally, but I don't work with it that much.
12:10	mmorgan	fine threshold is set at $50, and my test patron owes $63.60, which appears in red under the Bills button.
12:11	Dyrcona	I bet that's it in bshum's case too, not those numbers exactly, but
12:12	bshum	mmorgan: Dyrcona: We'll check for that, thanks!
12:15	RoganH	A quick reminder - Hackaway 2013 Registration is open now and until 8/15 http://hackaway2013.eventbrite.com/
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12:27	ElliotFriend	Is there a way to display branch information (hours, address, etc.) in the OPAC? On an "About the library" page, for example?
12:28	kmlussier	ElliotFriend: It's not available yet, but I'm currently testing https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1201982, which will allow libraries to provide a link to this information.
12:29	pinesol_green`	Launchpad bug 1201982 in Evergreen "TPAC: In copy table, link library name to an external URL (if OU setting exists)" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Wishlist,New]
12:29	kmlussier	I expect it will be available as of 2.5
12:29	dbs	ElliotFriend: I'm also interested in automatically generating pages like that in the TPAC, with schema.org markup
12:29	ElliotFriend	Very cool! I s'pose in the mean-time, I can just create a template for that page?
12:30	dbs	Because it's crazy to have to maintain that information in umpteen places :)
12:30	kmlussier	dbs++
12:30	dbs	ElliotFriend: you could, although you might to teach EGCatLoader.pm where to find it
12:31	* dbs	seems to recall a fallback for unrecognized pages but doesn't recall off-hand
12:32	* dbs	recalls incorrectly
12:32	ElliotFriend	What does EGCatLoader.pm do?
12:33	RoganH	I've always wondered if small rural libraries would want a sort of stack with Evergreen and Wordpress with shared data so that if you changed say the address in evergreen that changed in your wordpress site.
12:35	ElliotFriend	RoganH: That's a pretty cool idea! We're not a "small rural library," but we're a college library. All we have is one branch, and something like that would definitely appeal to us!
12:36	RoganH	heh, I don't mean to imply others wouldn't but part of my job is overseeing outreach so sometimes I think in those terms :)
12:37	ElliotFriend	What about holiday closings? Is there a built-in function to display some kind of header in the OPAC that says the library is closed? Or, would I have to do that through a TPAC template?
12:38	ElliotFriend	I have noticed (but not really looked at) the "Closed Dates Editor." Is that the right direction to look into?
12:38	RoganH	That would be problematic for consortiums like mine where one library might be closed but others aren't.
12:39	RoganH	Happens every year for Confederate Memorial Day here
12:39	Dyrcona	ElliotFriend: yes, closed dates editor is where you enter closed dates, such as for holidays.
12:39	kmlussier	RoganH: http://evergreen-ils.org/blog/?p=1299
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12:40	RoganH	woot! thanks kathy!
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12:40	ElliotFriend	Dyrcona: I've entered a closing, does it show up anywhere in the TPAC on it's own?
12:41	ElliotFriend	Do I need to restart services first?
12:41	Dyrcona	no, it doesn't show up anywhere. It is used by circulation to calculate due dates, fines, etc.
12:42	Dyrcona	If you wanted to use it with something like dbs or RoganH are talking about that would require some programming.
12:43	ElliotFriend	Dyrcona: that makes sense. Thanks!
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12:48	ElliotFriend	On a different note, how do I prohibit a patron from checking out items if they have fines due?
12:49	dbs	ElliotFriend: sorry, when you said "create a template for the page", I thought you meant make it show up in the TPAC; EGCatLoader.pm is where the TPAC page loading gets handled
12:50	ElliotFriend	dbs: Aaaahh.. thanks
12:52	dbs	RoganH: sounds like the "Library-in-a-Box" effort of a few years back, parallel to the "NGO-in-a-box" idea (not to be confused with the much more recent Jason Griffey "LibraryBox" initiative)
12:52	RoganH	a bit yeah, though I don't think I'd get quite as ambitious as some of those have been (I haven't seen LibraryBox as a disclaimer)
12:53	RoganH	and I'm thinking more of an open source stack like lamp than a purchased product
12:54	dbs	RoganH: that's actually what the library-in-a-box idea was, originally sponsored by eifl: http://www.ibiblio.org/bess/?p=62
12:55	RoganH	really? when I saw it you bought it for $200 or something, or maybe we're talking about different things
12:55	dbs	prolly different things
12:55	dbs	http://www.librariesforall.org/library-in-a-box/ is a very differen
12:55	dbs	t thing
12:55	RoganH	skimming over link, yeah, that's different.
12:56	RoganH	did they get very far?
12:56	RoganH	I could see such a project getting pretty huge if you start adding things like coral or d-space in addition to a web server, ils, etc...
12:57	ElliotFriend	I always thought it would be pretty sweet to have Evergreen available as a http://www.turnkeylinux.org/ appliance. I had a mind to try making that once or twice, but haven't given it a shot yet
12:58	RoganH	( I do contend such a huge stack would still be awesome though. )
12:59	ElliotFriend	RoganH++
12:59	RoganH	There was someone (I want to say eastern canada) selling some evergreen preinstalled in a box with other apps a few years ago. I was asked to look at one by someone who was given one as a gift by the company but I wasn't that impressed.
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13:01	dbs	discovery garden
13:02	dbs	Lib2O I think?
13:02	bshum	Yeah that's right.
13:02	RoganH	That sounds familiar. Prince Edward Island?
13:02	bshum	That was during the Decatur conference.
13:02	bshum	UPEI
13:02	bshum	Mark Leggott's library
13:03	RoganH	I saw it a year after Decatur I think. They didn't ship them for a while. Anyway, they may be great, may not, that was just my experience in that point in time.
13:03	bshum	Well, I just mean they talked about it a lot during Decatur. :P
13:04	RoganH	The library who got it was already running Evergreen, and it was running fine, so I didn't even understand why they wanted the box or wanted my opinion.
13:04	* RoganH	doesn't understand many things.
13:07	rfrasur	free computer
13:07	jihpringle	ElliotFriend: to prohibit patrons from checking out with fines do you need to set Global Penalty Thresholds (Admin -> Local Administration -> Global Penalty Thresholds)
13:07	jihpringle	the penalty you're looking for is PATRON_EXCEEDS_FINES
13:07	rfrasur	oy, there's my phone call
13:08	jihpringle	you also may need to do some set up in Admin -> Local Administration -> Standing Penalties
13:08	ElliotFriend	jihpringle: I knew I saw something like "penalty threshold" somwhere! Thanks!!
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13:14	ElliotFriend	jihpringle: worked like a charm! thanks again
13:14	jihpringle	excellent!
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13:28	ElliotFriend	jihpringle: Are those the same kind of settings I would use to limit the amount of "Claimed Returned" items? Or, is there somewhere specific to set that? Or, does evergreen handle that by default?
13:29	jihpringle	ElliotFriend: there is an Library Setting -" Max Patron Claims Returned Count" that you can set in the Library Settings Editor
13:30	ElliotFriend	Awesome! You guys have thought of everything! lol thanks
13:30	jihpringle	if your version of EG has the Library Settings Editor filter you can just type in "claim" and you'll get all the settings related to claimed returned and claimed never checked out
13:30	rfrasur	evergreen++
13:31	bshum	Evergreen.next will have lost blocking too. Our libraries are excited for that.
13:31	ElliotFriend	bshum: what's "lost blocking"?
13:31	bshum	Err, blocking penalty based on number of lost items.
13:31	bshum	You can kind of get that now with blocking based on fines or overdues
13:32	bshum	But we liked the extra granularity.
13:32	ElliotFriend	bshum: me, too! thanks
13:32	kmlussier	bshum: Some of our libraries like that extra granularity too.
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13:44	* dbs	takes a quick look for "template" in the official docs and notices that we are overloading the term "template" quite severely
13:47	jeff_	tt2 templates, bib templates, copy templates, receipt templates...
13:48	bshum	jihpringle: Question for you when you have a moment about acq...
13:48	bshum	jihpringle: mllewellyn has been poking at receiving items in invoicing and seeing a quirk where clicking on it results in a loading bar animation that doesn't go away.
13:49	bshum	jihpringle: Curious if you've seen that anywhere in your 2.4 acq testing.
13:49	bshum	We're looking in our logs to see if we can trace it back now.
13:50	jihpringle	bshum: I don't recall seeing anything like that recently in acq and our libraries haven't reported it, but I have previously seen that in year end
13:51	jihpringle	I've also seen that in Circulation Policies especially when applying limits to existing policies
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13:51	kmlussier	dbs++ #More details button is much happier now.
13:52	jihpringle	bshum: the circ policies is on our 2.4 Production system
13:52	bshum	Hmm, sounds like an unhappy dojo interaction.
13:52	bshum	Okay jihpringle, thanks, I'll keep looking around for now.
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13:52	elfsts	elfstrand here
13:53	rfrasur	oy - RDA broke our author search
13:53	kmlussier	@blame RDA
13:53	pinesol_green`	kmlussier: RDA stole kmlussier's ice cream!
13:53	bshum	RDA--
13:54	kmlussier	Damn you RDA!
13:54	rfrasur	RDA--
13:54	rfrasur	@blame RDA
13:54	pinesol_green`	rfrasur: It really IS RDA's fault!
13:54	rfrasur	I know!
13:54	gsams	such a useful tool
13:55	rfrasur	the blame "button?" yes. RDA? they say it is...guess we'll see...when it stops breaking stuff.
13:55	gsams	rfrasur: the blame button for sure.
13:55	rfrasur	gsams++
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14:00	gmcharlt	EOB meeting starting shortly
14:00	* bshum	waves at shy phasefx
14:01		sborger joined #evergreen
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14:05	gmcharlt	#startmeeting Evergreen Oversight Board meeting, 18 July 2013
14:05	pinesol_green`	Meeting started Thu Jul 18 14:05:35 2013 US/Eastern. The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:05	pinesol_green`	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:05	pinesol_green`	The meeting name has been set to 'evergreen_oversight_board_meeting__18_july_2013'
14:05	gmcharlt	#info agenda is at http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=governance:minutes:2013-7-18
14:06	gmcharlt	#topic introductions (EOB board members please introduct yourselves using #info)
14:06	gmcharlt	#info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton
14:06	kmlussier	#info kmlussier = Kathy Lussier, MassLNC
14:06	RoganH	#info RoganH = Rogan Hamby, sclends
14:06	sborger	#info sborger = Shauna Borger, ISL
14:06	yboston	#info ysboston - Yamil Suarez - Berklee College of Music
14:06	dbwells	#info dbwells = Dan Wells, Hekman Library (Calvin College)
14:06	StephenGWills	#info StephenGWills = himself, Maine Balsam
14:06	montgoc1	#info montgoc1 = Chauncey Montgomery, Consortium of Ohio Libraries
14:06	rfrasur	#info rfrasur = Ruth Frasur, Hagerstown Library - Evergreen Indiana
14:06	afterl	gmcharlt, small change to the agenda. kmlussier will be giving the conference report, I'm just here for back up support
14:06	Benhyman	#info Benhyman - Ben Hyman, Bc Libraries Co-op
14:06	gmcharlt	afterl: thanks, noted
14:07	afterl	#info afterl = Amy Terlaga, Bibliomation
14:07	RoganH	as a point of note: past minutes often had me as rogan but I recently discovered that a fellow from South Africa has often been logging on using that so I've started using RoganH
14:07	abneiman	#info abneiman = Andrea Buntz Neiman
14:07	abneiman	sorry for being late
14:08	gmcharlt	OK, at this point we have a quorum of EOB meetings, so I'll move on
14:08	gmcharlt	#topic Financial report
14:09	gmcharlt	#action gmcharlt will email current summary right after the EOB meeting
14:09	gmcharlt	(sorry for not getting to it beforehand)
14:09	gmcharlt	so
14:09	gmcharlt	#topic Evergreen 2014 Conference Committee Report
14:09	gmcharlt	kmlussier: afterl: take it away
14:10	kmlussier	Sure, contract negotations with the hotel are still ongoing, but I think we're close to wrapping things up.
14:10	kmlussier	We will be sending out a pre-planning survey shortly - probably next week at the latest.
14:10		Emckinney joined #evergreen
14:11	kmlussier	I also send out a proposed budget revision to the Board prior to the meeting that more accurately reflects what our costs will be.
14:11	kmlussier	I think we have a good handle on our numbers now, so I don't expect to have future budget revisions to bring to the Board.
14:11	kmlussier	gmcharlt: Can we link to that e-mail?
14:11	gmcharlt	#info 2014 conference proposed budget revision is at http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2013-July/000506.html
14:12	kmlussier	gmcharlt++
14:12	kmlussier	Does anyone have any questions about the proposed changes to the budget?
14:12	yboston	I have a question
14:12	gmcharlt	#info copy of the proposed budget is at https://docs.google.com/file/d/1sVsmN86aPHLThRs7jyiHYOw2N5tAFVy50LbKoqR8K9VaWgRUKZJGyLvU_QXX/edit?usp=sharing
14:13	yboston	What is it that the conservancy is negotiating on our behalf, is it the format/woring of the contract, costs?
14:13	yboston	(wording)
14:14	kmlussier	At this point, I think they have been trying to work on some of the costs. The wireless fees have been a big topic of discussion.
14:14	Emckinney	Kathy, are you asking sponsors to pay for reception?
14:14	kmlussier	We do have an opportunity to sponsor a reception, but it doesn't cover all of the costs. Only helps to defray the costs.
14:15	sborger	Just a general comment: +1 to the recording sponsorship. Good idea.
14:15	kmlussier	yboston: I'm sure the SFC is working on wording too. But we don't have too many conversations about those issues.
14:16	yboston	kmlussier: thanks
14:16	afterl	Have you all seen our sponsorship categories?
14:16	kmlussier	afterl: I didn't sent that out. Should I upload a copy to Google docs?
14:16	gmcharlt	please
14:16	afterl	Yes, I think it would be good to share
14:18	kmlussier	#info copy of draft sponsorship opportunities is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hUKYjp6W6yqfBE0tGq7cUvBZK-SXMBXJ-q2GlH6W66Y/edit?usp=sharing
14:19	afterl	The SFC is looking it over now, subject to approval
14:19	gmcharlt	another question -- are the estimates for the proposed session recording firm?
14:19	afterl	Hmmm.... why do you ask?
14:20	kmlussier	gmcharlt: They're still just estimates at this point. bshum and I have been an communication with an open source group that records open source conferences, but I'm waiting for a response on my last e-mail.
14:20	afterl	kmlussier: thanks for clarification
14:21	rfrasur	As you nail down sponsors, will you update that document with how many are still available?
14:21	kmlussier	But these numbers are based on information bshum previously got from this group.
14:21	gmcharlt	thanks
14:21	Benhyman	kmlussier: will the venue allow 3rd party equipment in re: streaming etc?
14:22	kmlussier	Benhyman: Yes, I believe Tony verified that. I'll double check with him just to be sure.
14:22	afterl	rfrasur: yes, we will keep that updated so you can see our progress
14:22	kmlussier	rfrasur: At some point, it will be posted on a web page too where the updates will happen.
14:22	sborger	I see from the google doc that sponsors will receive a registration waiver depending on the level. Is that a precedent we want to set for future conferences?
14:23	rfrasur	kmlussier: afterl: ty
14:23	afterl	sborger: it was done last year
14:23	afterl	er, this year
14:23	Benhyman	kmlussier: thanks - if the group that you and bshum are inquiring with falls through, poke me?
14:23	sborger	I'm not against it but I know we didn't do this in 2012 and I think sponsors might expect it in the future if we begin allowing it.
14:23	kmlussier	Benhyman: Absolutely
14:23	afterl	sborger: to that, we are not including any registrations with exhibitor sign ups
14:24	kmlussier	sborger: One of our thoughts was that the free registrations make the sponsorships more appealing and may result in a potential exhibitor upgrading to a sponsore.
14:24	sborger	Sure. I understand that. Makes sense.
14:24	montgoc1	I would think as long as the budget reflects the waivers we'd be OK.
14:24	kmlussier	Sorry for the typos! :)
14:24	gmcharlt	montgoc1: it does
14:25	Benhyman	I move to approve the budget revision as circulated by kmlussier
14:26	RoganH	I second.
14:26	montgoc1	Is the ~7,000 gain typical for a conference?
14:26	kmlussier	I don't know. Benhyman: What was the profit in Vancouver?
14:26	sborger	2012 was right around that if I remember correctly.
14:27	montgoc1	OK
14:27		CarrieC1 joined #evergreen
14:27	Benhyman	2013 should land between $5K and $7K, after tax rebates
14:28	gmcharlt	any further discussion on the motion?
14:28	montgoc1	Does the conference committee have authority to use that amount for unforeseen expenses?
14:29	kmlussier	My recollection is that we have to return to the Board if the budget changes by 10% or more.
14:29	gmcharlt	correct
14:29	montgoc1	OK.
14:29	montgoc1	Thanks.
14:29	gmcharlt	OK, I'll call the vote
14:29	gmcharlt	#startvote Does the EOB approve the revised 2014 conference budget? Yes, No, Abstain
14:29	pinesol_green	Begin voting on: Does the EOB approve the revised 2014 conference budget? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
14:29	pinesol_green	Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:29	RoganH	#vote Yes
14:29	montgoc1	#vote yes
14:29	StephenGWills	#vote Yes
14:29	Emckinney	#vote yes
14:29	sborger	#vote Yes
14:29	kmlussier	#vote Yes
14:29	yboston	#vote yes
14:29	elfsts	#vote YES
14:29	gmcharlt	#vote Yes
14:29	abneiman	#vote yes
14:30	Benhyman	yes
14:30	Benhyman	sorry #vote yes
14:30	gmcharlt	OK
14:30	gmcharlt	#endvote
14:30	pinesol_green	Voted on "Does the EOB approve the revised 2014 conference budget?" Results are
14:30	pinesol_green	Yes (10): kmlussier, abneiman, yboston, StephenGWills, RoganH, montgoc1, gmcharlt, Emckinney, sborger, elfsts
14:31	gmcharlt	motion carries
14:31	gmcharlt	#info Ben Hyman voted to approve as well
14:31		pmurray joined #evergreen
14:31	gmcharlt	any other questions for kmlussier and afterl?
14:32	Benhyman	nice work you two!
14:32	gmcharlt	OK, moving on
14:32	afterl	thanks, all :)
14:32	gmcharlt	#topic Release manager update
14:32	kmlussier	Thansk everyone!
14:32	dbwells	#info The 'm2' commit push happened from 7/2-7/12 as planned. Progress was very similar to the first round, reducing the outstanding pullrequests from 62 to 29, which should be considered a success.
14:33	dbwells	#info More details at http://markmail.org/thread/zcxti4nkqkplo6uw
14:33	dbwells	#info Next push ('alpha1') will be Aug. 2 through Aug. 9.
14:33	dbwells	In summary, things are going as planned.
14:34	gmcharlt	any questions for dbwells?
14:35	kmlussier	No, just kudos for a process that seems to be running very smoothly!
14:35	kmlussier	dbwells++
14:35	RoganH	dbwells++
14:35	gmcharlt	dbwells++
14:35	yboston	dbwells++
14:35	yboston	dbwells: do you have comments or questions for the board?
14:35	dbwells	thanks, all :)
14:36	Benhyman	dbwells++
14:36	gmcharlt	great
14:36	gmcharlt	#topic Follow-up on support company list
14:36	gmcharlt	#info Report on the community discussion is at http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2013-July/000507.html
14:36	dbwells	yboston: No. Before these last two meetings, I wasn't really sure what the board did, so it has been pretty eye opening :)
14:37	kmlussier	I don't have much to add to that thread other than, based on the feedback we received, I recommend essentially following the Koha model.
14:37	kmlussier	The areas where there was the highest degree of consensus seem to be covered by the Koha guidelines.
14:38	gmcharlt	#info Koha project support provider listing policy is at http://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/how-to-get-listed/
14:38	RoganH	I think we should look at implementing a Koha like model and then we could discuss further expansion at a later time.
14:39	montgoc1	I agree.
14:39	* rfrasur	also agrees
14:39	kmlussier	If there is general consensus to go in that direction, I would be happy to draw up an official Evergreen version of the policy for approval at the August meeting.
14:39	montgoc1	I like the simplicity of the Koha model.
14:39	kmlussier	I didn't have time to do it before today's meeting.
14:40	abneiman	Also agreed. Plus we don't want to put too much work on the web team in terms of vetting/registering/etc.
14:41	RoganH	I agree.
14:42	gmcharlt	are there any objections to kmlussier proceeding as she proposes?
14:42	Benhyman	kmlussier++
14:42	RoganH	No objection. I'll make a motion if anyone feels that's needed but I think this should fall more under the auspice of the web committee.
14:43	RoganH	Though I think it's good to have had this discussion.
14:43	StephenGWills	nod. kmlussier++
14:43	kmlussier	RoganH: I was thinking a vote could wait until we have a real policy to vote on.
14:44	StephenGWills	it sounds if, if a motion is needed it would come next meeting?
14:44	gmcharlt	yes
14:44	gmcharlt	#action kmlussier will draw up an Evergreen version of Koha's support listing policy for consideration by the EOB by the August meeting
14:45	* gmcharlt	notes, BTW, that Koha's webmaster uses a particular WordPress plugin, Connections, for managing the directory; has worked well so far
14:45	gmcharlt	moving on
14:45	gmcharlt	#topic Follow-up on testing meeting
14:45	* StephenGWills	makes a note and runs to google
14:45	gmcharlt	sborger: you have the follow
14:46	gmcharlt	*floor
14:46	gmcharlt	StephenGWills: http://connections-pro.com/
14:46	sborger	I have notes from our conference call which I would like to share but wasn't sure what would be appropriate. Also, I don't have access to Google docs at work. Would the board like to review the notes from the meeting?
14:47	sborger	Shall I email Galen or Kathy for them to quickly upload the minutes to Google docs so everyone can review?
14:47	gmcharlt	sborger: please
14:48	sborger	Since this was the first meeting, I spent much of the time asking questions to find out what has been done in the past and what is presently done in terms of testing Evergreen.
14:48	gmcharlt	#info Minutes of the 2013-07-02 testing conference call are at https://docs.google.com/file/d/1ImfRJH4V_5xUhTmv_8ni4ekt7_J-4gBU_EGz_lrOI9renZEO26QpHCwZ3JRL/edit?usp=sharing
14:49	sborger	We discussed collaboration with DIG since there certainly is an opportunity there and we don't want to recreate the wheel.
14:50	gmcharlt	any questions for sborger?
14:50	sborger	Moving forward, it was recommended that we plan another conference call and invite Yamil (DIG), a rep from Equinox (QA project) and a developer (Dan Scott).
14:50	sborger	We will plan to reach out to these parties and plan a follow up conference call soon.
14:51	gmcharlt	thanks for organizing this, sborger
14:51	sborger	Lots more questions than answers at this point but I will keep everyone in the loop.
14:52	gmcharlt	moving on
14:52	yboston	sborger: looking forward to helping out
14:52	kmlussier	Just a correction for the minutes. I think the MVLC should be replaced with MassLNC on page 3.
14:52	gmcharlt	#topic Grants and fundraising
14:52	gmcharlt	RoganH: you have the floor
14:52	RoganH	OK, first grants.
14:53	RoganH	Unfortunately during the last month Kathy and I have had trouble finding common time to chat about grants but we've finally nailed down next Tuesday morning.
14:53	RoganH	We will chat in IRC but off the Evergreen channel and move forward so we have more to report next time.
14:53	RoganH	One thing I did want to bring up now though is fundraising.
14:54	RoganH	Eventually, if we succeed at finding friendly grants we will need matching resources.
14:54	RoganH	I think we can find in kind donations of staff but at least some cash resources will be needed.
14:54	RoganH	Most of what we have now we need for the conference.
14:55	RoganH	Are there objections to the board seeking funds for a sort of hope chest for grants?
14:55		CarrieC joined #evergreen
14:55		jdouma joined #evergreen
14:55	RoganH	This is obviously a long term issue.
14:56	gmcharlt	RoganH: a question -- what can we reasonable tell potential donors about the timeline for when their cash might turn into project deilverables of some sort?
14:56	kmlussier	I would love to see more fundraising with Evergreen swag.
14:56	RoganH	I'm not beneath hosting a bake sale at the conference btw.
14:56	gmcharlt	pine tree cookies? :)
14:56	RoganH	That will be determined by how friendly we find the gran institutions to be.
14:56	RoganH	gmcharlt: yes!
14:56	StephenGWills	Do most of these kinds of grants require the grantee to match the amount?
14:56	RoganH	They vary but most require at least a partial match and most allow some to be in kind staff time.
14:57	RoganH	Percentages vary widely.
14:57	StephenGWills	but it can't be case by case because lead time would not allow time for raising matching funds ad-hoc?
14:57	RoganH	Part of what Kathy and I will be discussing is those institutes that have a history of supporting libraries, open source and the size of projects and scopes they like to support.
14:57	kmlussier	Our local library association uses the conference as an opportunity to do their major fundraiser for the year. In some years it's been an auction; other years have been trivia.
14:58	* StephenGWills	showing how NOT a grant-writer he is?
14:58	kmlussier	Maybe we should be looking to do something at the conference each year to raise extra monies.
14:58	kmlussier	In addition to the swag.
14:58	RoganH	We need to get out ahead of it. If we get a major grant opportunity in say a year we could lose it if we can't say we have the ability to do the matching.
14:59	sborger	Good idea, Kathy. A trivia night or some sort of social event/fundraiser would be well received I think.
14:59	RoganH	I like the idea of doing something at the conference. Selling t-shirts. A banquet. I'm not skilled at fund raising myself but it is important if we go this route.
14:59	RoganH	I think that would be fun actually.
14:59	StephenGWills	I'd be for maintaining an earmarked fund for matching except that SFC has pointed out in past that we don't have the buffer to do that.
14:59	StephenGWills	is that still true?
15:00	gmcharlt	kmlussier: is there space (physically and organizationally) to attempt a fundraiser at the 2014 conference?
15:00	montgoc1	Diversity would be good. Some people may be more apt to buy a t-shirt vs attend an event.
15:00	RoganH	We don't have the buffer now but the idea is to build that buffer.
15:00	RoganH	montgoc1: I agree.
15:01	kmlussier	gmcharlt: The space is really tight. We're using all the conference space available, and I think it would be too difficult to break down a room at the end of the day and then reconfigure it for a fundraiser.
15:01	gmcharlt	StephenGWills: correct, we don't have the buffer yet, as what would be needed is enough to ensure against a conference that becomes a financial disaster (e.g., on the level of terminating hotel contracts)
15:01	kmlussier	It might be something we could hold off site though. I would have to think on it.
15:02	RoganH	And if 2014 doesn't work (and I know it may be too late) then I'm saying we look toward 2015 and other things at 2014 (like swag).
15:02	StephenGWills	So if we have a fund raiser, would it not need to fund the buffer until it was sufficient and then start to fill a grant matching bucket?
15:03	elfsts	sell the right to post your support company on the Evergreen web site instead of giving it away?
15:03	Emckinney	Could we sell Evergreen tshirts on the website? Put up a link to an online vendor. EG gets a percentage from every sale?
15:03	* rfrasur	wants t-shirts - LOTS of t-shirts
15:03	RoganH	I think the community web site should be neutral but I like the idea of selling tshirts online.
15:04	gmcharlt	Emckinney: RoganH: agreed re selling swag online as well
15:04	* StephenGWills	apologizes but I have up against another meeting. Do you still have a quorum w/o me?
15:04	kmlussier	I would like to go beyond t-shirts. Some people don't like t-shirts, but might be willing to busy something else.
15:04		kayals_ joined #evergreen
15:04	rfrasur	agreed, kmlussier.
15:04	kmlussier	That is, buy something else.
15:04	RoganH	Perhaps we should start with selling swag online and then look at other opportunities as well.
15:04	RoganH	Swag = tshirts and more
15:05		dboyle joined #evergreen
15:05	kmlussier	RoganH: I also would like to give more thought to the idea of doing a fundraiser at the conference. Maybe the conference planning team can put our heads together on that one.
15:05	RoganH	So, I would like approval to start looking at swag and selling it.
15:05	RoganH	kmlussier++
15:06	gmcharlt	any objection to RoganH proceeding with his swag investigation? and any volunteers to work with him?
15:07	StephenGWills	RoganH++
15:07	kmlussier	RoganH: You might want to check with afterl to see if she is interested.
15:07	StephenGWills	#info SGW thanks the awesome EOB and leaves the meeting.
15:07	RoganH	Excellent suggestion, I will.
15:07	montgoc1	RoganH: I can help.
15:07	RoganH	Excellent.
15:08	gmcharlt	gerat
15:08	RoganH	I will do this - I'll send out a general email list announcement and ask for volunteers to gather email addresses and start following up.
15:08	elfsts	Well guess we could have a neutral simple list on the web site and a place for Vendor advertisements too
15:08	Emckinney	If we sell stuff online, that doesn't necessarily require $$ up front. Sell shirts and other merchandise to fund a larger initiatives that will need seed money.
15:08	RoganH	And bring report at next meeting.
15:08	gmcharlt	#action RoganH to pursue options for swag sales
15:09	gmcharlt	so as the last agenda item
15:09	gmcharlt	#topic Format of the EOB meetings
15:10	RoganH	point of order: I did ask for a quick Hack A Way update but that can wait until afterwards.
15:10	gmcharlt	RoganH: ah, right -- I'll let you do that at the very end
15:10	gmcharlt	#info the past three (non-physical) EOB meetings have been held via IRC; prior to that they were held via conference call
15:12	gmcharlt	elfsts has raised a question about the format for future meetings
15:12	gmcharlt	any discussion?
15:12	montgoc1	How was participation on the calls?
15:13	elfsts	Well I didn't think that last two went very well. I thought that this format limits discussion and interaction. But this one was a lot better. I don't know if it's because we're all getting better at chatting or or for some other reason anyone else see issues with this format?
15:13	kmlussier	The first IRC meeting wasn't ideal; I've found the last two fairly interactive.
15:13	RoganH	I personally like IRC and have found this and the last one to have some of the best discussion I have seen in my term on the board.
15:13	sborger	From my perspective, participation has been increasing on IRC as people get used to the format.
15:13	kmlussier	I also like the transparency for IRC meetings.
15:13	RoganH	kmlussier: agreed
15:14	abneiman	sborger: agreed
15:14	RoganH	I have had folks say that they know a lot more about what the board is and does now.
15:14	abneiman	And kmlussier: agreed
15:14	montgoc1	For myself, I know the first meeting was my first real exposure to IRC and I was more hesitant.
15:14	Emckinney	I don't care for the IRC format. I do prefer phone interaction but I also recognize the need to track our minutes. I get the feeling folks are multi-tasking.
15:14	gmcharlt	since we're a board of 11, I woudl posit that any real-time discussion mechanism is going to have issues, so I enter a plea for also increasing the use of the mailing list for discussions
15:14	kmlussier	I like what dbwells said above, about getting a better idea of what the board does now that we are on IRC.
15:15	RoganH	On the phone I think it's very easy to talk over each other. Here it's much easier to see each person's comments.
15:15	kmlussier	For the record, I'm willing to take minutes no matter what the meeting format. :)
15:15	Emckinney	The last two meetings have been better and it is nice to see more folks participating. Perhaps we could have the agreement that since this IS a meeting that we are 100% present for it?
15:15	RoganH	I think that's beneficial. Timid folks who don't want to be rude can be left unheard on the phone though maybe that's just my concern.
15:15	montgoc1	I agree with RoganH.
15:15	Benhyman	kmlussier: stop being so awesome ;)
15:15	montgoc1	I find conference calls are OK with smaller groups but can become confusing when you have too many people on the line.
15:16	gmcharlt	Emckinney: that's a reasonable request for all participants in this meeting
15:16	kmlussier	Benhyman: Heh, if you worked with me in person you wouldn't be saying that. :)
15:16	gmcharlt	(though I note that conference calls don't preclude multitasking either)
15:17	elfsts	yes I agree with elizabeth but its oh so tempting to just take a peek at something else
15:17	kmlussier	elfsts also mentioned the possibility of using Google Hangouts, which would be a good solution, but you can only have 10 people on a Hangout.
15:17	kmlussier	I wish there were a Google Hangout -like option that supported more people.
15:17	gmcharlt	kmlussier: me too (and which avoid the $$$ that I suspect most larger solutions require)
15:18	RoganH	The better options are commercial in nature as far as I know and since IRC is used by DIG and the devs I like keeping the meetings here.
15:18	RoganH	something like the citrix one is $50 a month
15:19	montgoc1	Could we continue IRC for the near-term and all commit to focusing on the meeting and see how it goes, then readdress it if there is a problem with participation.
15:19	RoganH	montgoc1: I would support that.
15:20	eeevil	montgoc1: you get a +1 from the peanut gallery for that
15:20	elfsts	yes to continue with IRC anf focus
15:20	Emckinney	I would support that as well.
15:20	gmcharlt	+1
15:20	abneiman	For transparency purposes, I would agree with staying in IRC. Personally it was a bit of a learning curve but I'm getting more comfortable with it.
15:21	Emckinney	Do you need that in the form of a +1?
15:21	RoganH	+1
15:21	kmlussier	+1
15:21	Benhyman	+1
15:21	elfsts	+1
15:21	gmcharlt	OK, thanks
15:22	gmcharlt	and since we're already running over
15:22	gmcharlt	#topic Hack-a-saurus update
15:22	RoganH	Registration has opened for the 2013 Hack-A-Way. It is being hosted September 17-19th by Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Registration is open until 8/15.
15:22	RoganH	Calvin has been very generous with their hosting. In addition Equinox Software is sponsoring the event.
15:22	RoganH	I would like to move that the board officially recognize that both Calvin College and Equinox Software be recognized by the board for their generous support of the annual developer's meeting.
15:22	elfsts	+1
15:23	kmlussier	+1
15:23	yboston	+1
15:23	Benhyman	+1
15:23	montgoc1	+1
15:23	abneiman	+1
15:24	gmcharlt	RoganH: thanks for the update
15:24	gmcharlt	#info Registration has opened for the 2013 Hack-A-Way. It is being hosted September 17-19th by Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Registration is open until 8/15.
15:24	gmcharlt	any questions for him or dbwells about the event?
15:24	kmlussier	RoganH++ dbwells++
15:25	elfsts	registration link is on Evergreen web site?
15:25	RoganH	It's on the blog.
15:25	RoganH	#info hackaway2013.eventbrite.com - registration site
15:26	gmcharlt	thanks
15:26	gmcharlt	any other brief udpates before we adjouirn?
15:27	gmcharlt	thanks, everybody
15:27	Emckinney	Thanks Galen
15:27	gmcharlt	#endmeeting
15:27	pinesol_green	Meeting ended Thu Jul 18 15:27:38 2013 US/Eastern. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
15:27	pinesol_green	Minutes: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2013/evergreen.2013-07-18-14.05.html
15:27	pinesol_green	Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2013/evergreen.2013-07-18-14.05.txt
15:27	pinesol_green	Log: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2013/evergreen.2013-07-18-14.05.log.html
15:27	kmlussier	gmcharlt++
15:27	kmlussier	Good meeting everyone!
15:27	yboston	gmcharlt++
15:27	Benhyman	gmcharlt++
15:28	RoganH	gmcharlt++
15:28	bshum	gmcharlt++ and thanks to the whole board for sharing in channel with the rest of us the going on's of the board :D
15:28	kmlussier	gmcharlt: I'll post the minutes to the web site.
15:28	kmlussier	Or maybe not. Too late!
15:29	Dyrcona	parts--
15:29	RoganH	kmlussier fast like ninja
15:29	bshum	parts--
15:29	Dyrcona	Parts cannot have enough bad karma.
15:29	bshum	Agreed.
15:30	gmcharlt	kmlussier: heh, sorry about that
15:30	rfrasur	internet_explorer--
15:31	kmlussier	gmcharlt: I have no problem keeping the name of secretary with no job duties. :)
15:31	rfrasur	kmlussier++
15:36	dbs	board++
15:36	kmlussier	@karma parts
15:36	pinesol_green	kmlussier: Karma for "parts" has been increased 0 times and decreased 5 times for a total karma of -5.
15:36	kmlussier	parts++
15:37	kmlussier	Somebody needs to advocate for parts.
15:37	mmorgan	parts++
15:37	Dyrcona	No, no one /needs/ to advocate for parts.
15:37	kmlussier	mmorgan: Thank you!
15:37	Dyrcona	Try migrating data from a library that does parts differently into your collection.
15:37	StephenGWills	for what it is worth, I had a 3:00 commitment and if we had met by phone, I would have had to hang up and would have missed the remainder of the meeting. In IRC I just read it all! That's awesome as far as I'm concerned.
15:38	kmlussier	StephenGWills++
15:38	bshum	kmlussier: It's good that I haven't been decrementing parts for each week I've had a problem with them.
15:38	rfrasur	bshum++
15:38	kmlussier	bshum: No, instead you just complain to me about them. :D
15:38	rfrasur	lol
15:39	kmlussier	I didn't say parts were perfect, they just need a little more love. And, yes, I do understand that they are a PITA during migration.
15:39	mmorgan	Parts are good for patrons. How else can they request discs 3 and 4 of a set by themselves?
15:39	Dyrcona	A /little/?
15:40	kmlussier	mmorgan++
15:40	Dyrcona	And, when the part for disc 3 is inevitably deleted, hilarity ensues.
15:42	mmorgan	Dyrcona: so possibly what happens one deletes parts needs some work?
15:42	Dyrcona	And you get this loveliness to deal with: Disc 1,Disc 1-2,Disc 1-3,Disc 1-6,Disc 2,Disc 3,Disc 3-4,Disc 4,Disc 4-6,Disc 5,Disc 5-6,Disc 6
15:43	Dyrcona	or, this: Part 1, Discs 1-24,Part 2, Discs 25-39,Parts 1-2, Discs 1-39
15:43	Dyrcona	Now, which do I want, hmmm?
15:44	kmlussier	Dyrcona: Are there really 39 parts or is it bad data entry?
15:44	Dyrcona	The title is A Storm of Swords.
15:46	phasefx	what was the old way in some systems, hold notes with special instructions?
15:47	Dyrcona	multiple bib records....
15:47	Dyrcona	Now, I have to make this "v. 1,v. 2,v. 3,v. 4" match up with this: "Disc 1,Disc 2,Disc 3,Disc 4,Disc 5,Disc 6,Disc 7,Disc 8,Disc 9".
15:48	Dyrcona	I guess I have to add four new parts to that one.
15:48	Dyrcona	Yes, parts are a barrel of laughs.... Now, would someone please pass the barrel of rum?
15:49	dbs	We used different call numbers for each part, just appending "v. 1" etc to the end. Still do. Sadly, that is, because we don't let patrons place callnumber holds.
15:49	* dbs	tried to advocate for parts but that went nowhere
15:50	rfrasur	RoganH++
15:51	* rfrasur	writes a check
15:51	kmlussier	dbs: Yeah, the thing we didn't like about call number holds was that they couldn't go beyond the org unit.
15:51	* RoganH	gladly accepts the check.
15:53	RoganH	rfrasur: zap me an email and if your folks can contribute let's talk :)
15:54	rfrasur	in all seriousness, EG has an executive committee meeting in early...ish August and we can bring it up then. We need to bring up how to address development anyway.
15:54	* rfrasur	WOULD write a check...if I were independently wealthy.
15:55	RoganH	Sounds great.
15:55	RoganH	Everyone will have to take it to boards and all that. That's why we get the conversation rolling. :)
15:55	rfrasur	yep :D
15:57	rfrasur	@loves
15:57	pinesol_green	rfrasur loves google; pinesol_green; overcast days; Evergreen; Ze Internetz!; chocolate; Fridays; minions; and Google Drive
15:57	rfrasur	Google++
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16:00	Phenol	When trying to run the build-db.sh script to reset my DB I get the following.. http://paste2.org/jp7w9UD1
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16:02	csharp	Phenol: any reason why you're using that script instead of eg_db_config.pl?
16:02	dbs	Phenol: I never use the build-db.sh script directly; generally I use eg_db_config.pl
16:06	Phenol	I was using the script because of the Doumentation... http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2.1/html/emptydatabase.html
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16:15	dbs	2.1 hasn't been supported for quite some time now, and just follow the last step at http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2.4/_creating_the_evergreen_database.html (assuming 2.4)
16:16	Dyrcona	Maybe someone should kill the old docs?
16:17	dbs	Dyrcona: yeah, postgresql tucks their old docs away at http://www.postgresql.org/docs/manuals/archive/
16:17	kmlussier	I think one of the reasons old docs hang round is because a lot of them haven't been moved up to the current docs yet.
16:17	* dbs	wonders if we still do that with releases
16:17	dbs	http://evergreen-ils.org/code_museum.php yay
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16:18	dbs	oh, except not really any 2.2 / 2.3 releases archived there :/
16:19	bshum	dbs: I've only been moving old active releases to archive as they actually get deprecated.
16:19	bshum	dbs: Nobody really seems interested in old server builds of 2.3.5, etc. only the latest of each series.
16:19	bshum	Or at least I haven't had anyone clammering for that.
16:20	dbs	I think the clamouring happens when a packaging problem is found in release + 1 and someone swears that wasn't a problem in release + 0. Pretty hypothetical.
16:21	dbs	But it is also useful just to track when releases came out, etc, without crawling through blog posts and mailing lists and IRC logs
16:22	Phenol	We are on version 2.3.2.. What is the latest stable ver we should be on?
16:24	dbs	http://evergreen-ils.org/downloads.php says 2.3.8
16:25	dbs	2.3.9 will be out in a day or two, as will 2.4.1.
16:25	dbs	(I kind of think we should have big red flags around 2.4.0)
16:26	jboyer-isl	Uh, big red "yay!" flags, or "Here there be monsters?"
16:28	csharp	jboyer-isl: monsters, I think
16:29	dbs	monsters of the "if you install this, you are going to have to reingest all of your bib records again" variety
16:29	bshum	dbs: We can certainly add museum code updating to the process when we update the pages for releases.
16:29	* bshum	pokes moodaepo, pay attention above --^
16:29	bshum	;)
16:29	dbs	bshum++
16:29	* csharp	still thinks we should allow a directory view of all tarballs old or not
16:30	jboyer-isl	Well, that'll be a fun weekend.
16:30	bshum	dbs: While I have you actually. Do you have any remaining nostalgia for old VM images? :D
16:30	bshum	Before I nuke a few away
16:30	dbs	bshum: I have no such nostalgia. nuke nuke nuke
16:30	bshum	dbs++
16:31	* moodaepo	wonders if we should sourceforge (or something) museum code
16:32	moodaepo	csharp: sure that would work too as long as it's just the museum code dir
16:32	* bshum	doesn't like moving links around to archive
16:33	* moodaepo	nudges csharp to add that to next web team meeting agenda when it's announced :)
16:34	csharp	moodaepo: that's all I was thinking, yeah - clean up the directory and make it browsable
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16:41	bshum	senator: Hmm, changed that global flag and it still takes about 16-17 seconds
16:42	* bshum	now realizes he should have noted what the original value of that flag was.
16:42	senator	bshum: it was 100
16:42	senator	thanks for the test!
16:42	bshum	Gotcha.
16:43	bshum	So no, unfortunately no effect it seems
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17:01	ElliotFriend	I'm trying to create a copy template (I think that's the right word) with the "Item Attribute Editor", and it doesn't seem to recognize any of the statuses (available, reshelving, etc.) that I've made myself with the "copy statuses" page. Any clues? Do I need to restart eg services?
17:02	kmlussier	ElliotFriend: Did you exit the client and log back in after creating the copy statuses?
17:03	ElliotFriend	kmlussier: I have now, and that sure did the trick. Thanks!!
17:04	kmlussier	ElliotFriend: Any time! :)
17:07	ElliotFriend	So, now I've got this template set up. How can I apply that template to every "copy" (?) that has a call number beginning with "REF"?
17:10	Dyrcona	ElliotFriend: You use the template to create new copies. You don't apply a template to existing copies.
17:11	ElliotFriend	I knew that's the way they're designed, is there anyway to make those changes retro-actively?
17:12	Dyrcona	Not using the template itself. You could put the copies in a bucket and possibly mass edit them, but I am not a cataloger so I never actually do that.
17:12	gsams	I think you can do it one of two ways
17:13	gsams	Like Dyrcona said, you could load them all into a bucket and mass edit them
17:13	gsams	If you have a list of barcodes, you can pop those into a text file one per line and upload that into the item status screen
17:13	gsams	do a mass edit that way
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17:14	gsams	I would be careful how many you do at a time either way.
17:14	ElliotFriend	gsams: what's a good number of copies to target at once?
17:15	gsams	I'm honestly not sure. I tend to work in batches of 100 in our setup.
17:16	ElliotFriend	gsams: That should be really doable for us, too
17:16	ElliotFriend	gsams: Dyrcona: Thanks, guys!
17:17	gsams	ElliotFriend: Glad to be of help!
17:17	ElliotFriend	what's the difference between a copy bucket and a record bucket?
17:18	ElliotFriend	which do I want in my situation?
17:18	Dyrcona	ElliotFriend: You want a copy bucket.
17:18	Dyrcona	A copy bucket is for copies. A record bucket is for bibliographic records.
17:19	ElliotFriend	and the bibliographic record is separate from a physical copy of a book, right? I'm learning, but some of these librarian terms still confuse me lol
17:19	Dyrcona	Right.
17:20	ElliotFriend	thanks again!
17:20	Dyrcona	yw
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19:08	betty_	We have used Librarian's Edge in the past but it is no longer supported. We are looking at moving to Evergreen but I need to know if my current data can be converted. It is currently in CSV format.
19:25	gmcharlt	betty_: the data would have to be converted to MARC format; various tools exist that can assist with that, including MarcEdit
19:39	betty_	ok. thank you
19:40	betty_	so once we convert we need to contact you?
19:49	phasefx	betty_: if you're looking for commercial support for Evergreen, there are several companies that provide it (let me dig up the URL)
19:50	phasefx	betty_: http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=faqs:evergreen_companies
19:51	betty_	thank you very much
19:52	phasefx	betty_: the way the community maintains that page is likely to change soon; there's no endorsement of any of the companies/orgs listed
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20:09	bshum	@later tell dbwells Same question for you, do you want any copies of the VMs you made for old Evergreens on the code museum page before we delete them?
20:09	pinesol_green	bshum: The operation succeeded.
20:10	* bshum	plans to delete all of them actually, and then remove the section entirely for old Virtual Images.
20:25	gsams	I am currently convincing the libraries that use electronic resources to use located URIs instead of attaching items to the records and it is going well.
20:26	gsams	I am however not familiar enough with the TPAC to set things up the way they are here:
20:26	gsams	http://catalog.tadl.org/eg/opac/record/46705848?locg=22;expand=marchtml#marchtml
20:26	gsams	Basically, I don't know how to set it up to have a big obvious button there and within the search results
20:27	gsams	currently the URL only shows up within the record, not even on the search results
20:27	gsams	I thought I had a good grasp of the TPAC, but I can't seem to figure this out and web design is not my area
20:29	bshum	gsams: That looks to be some custom code jeff's library put together for their TPAC.
20:30	bshum	In ours we still only have the URL string.
20:30	pinesol_green	[evergreen_website\|Ben Shum] Code Museum - add 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4 series - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen_Website.git;a=commit;h=783d06a>
20:30	gsams	bshum: only in the record, or also in the search results?
20:30	bshum	gsams: It's not a button by default, that's custom.
20:30	bshum	Though we do have it in our search results.
20:31	gsams	I would settle for that at the moment, ours is not doing that.
20:31	gsams	http://saginaw.northtexaslibraries.org/eg/opac/results?query=Once%20burned;qtype=keyword;locg=106
20:31	gsams	top record
20:32	* bshum	ponders this and can't remember how 2.3 works
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20:33	gsams	hehe, I can't say its a memory issue for me, simply haven't educated myself thoroughly yet
20:34	bshum	Hmm, the base code in 2.3 contains the necessary stuff to construct the electronic record info
20:36	gsams	ah
20:36	gsams	I see, show more details has to be enabled
20:36	bshum	Oh, that's it....
20:36	gsams	I forgot to enable that by default
20:37	bshum	That's fairly annoying. Sorry I forgot our TPAC is customized to not have a toggle for showing more details :\
20:37	gsams	I had never gotten the chance to run that idea by them, though I will definitely do that now
20:37	gsams	They will probably want that though, as it is a lot clearer overall
20:40	bshum	gsams: I might also recommend that they use subfield y for the label to use instead of the raw subfield u's URL
20:40	bshum	The subfield z is a note, so it appears alongside
20:41	bshum	If it was a y instead, it'd just be a link using that as the label pointing at the URL.
20:41	bshum	Little cleaner looking
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20:41	gsams	I actually did that fr that record, but there are 2 URLs and the one that didn't get affected is the one showing up in the results.
20:42	gsams	They have an excerpt link that took he subfield y I placed in
20:43	bshum	The one showing in results is the one with $9
20:44	bshum	So if you changed that to $y in that URL, I think it'd make the difference in the way it shows in results neater.
20:44	bshum	But yeah, it's what you've got :)
20:46	gsams	Yeah that would definitely fix it. I didn't even notice they were in separate tags.
21:07	* dbs	was in favour of having "show more details" be the default, and hooked up Conifer that way; sounds like if there's a significant number of sites showing details by default, we should maybe flip that default.
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