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IRC log for #evergreen, 2013-07-17

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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09:50 rfrasur News of the Day: Carnation Instant Breakfast does NOT taste as good as eggs and toast.
09:52 mrpeters oatmeal with strawberries > eggs
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09:54 rfrasur hmm....dehydrated strawberries or fresh? w/ milk in it? instant or real oatmeal? sugar or no?
09:55 mrpeters fresh, milk
09:55 mrpeters quaker strawberries and cream
09:55 paxed ... "Instant" "Breakfast"? is that like those "meal-in-a-pill" that we we supposed to have, accourding to the 60s predictions?
09:56 rfrasur paxed: it's powder you add to milk....it was what was available this morning according to schedule.
09:56 rfrasur and made by Nestle...which always reminds me of the melamine that was found in Chinese baby formula.
09:56 * rfrasur likes to live on the edge.
09:57 * rfrasur scoffs at corporate irresponsibility.
09:57 paxed texas should execute couple, i'm sure the rest would fall in line ...
09:58 rfrasur lol, TX isn't the only state with capital punishment.  They just get the most air time for some reason (probably because it's more prolific there?)
09:59 senator they do apply it at an exceptional rate. no other state comes close.
10:00 rfrasur I laugh, not  because I think it's funny, but because the whole thing (the WHOLE thing) is to the point where it's a laugh or cry proposition.
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10:01 rfrasur senator: true true
10:02 * Dyrcona will believe that corporations are people when Texas executes one.
10:02 rfrasur Dyrcona++ # but not the people that make up the corporation
10:03 Dyrcona That is as political as I want to get in here when the politics does not apply to software.
10:03 pinesol_green [evergreen|Dan Wells] Capture and log AuthProxy logins with no account - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=be36c3c>
10:03 pinesol_green [evergreen|Michael Peters] Initial selfcheck styling enhancements - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=b137ced>
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10:04 rfrasur Nope, software as a tool is apolitical.
10:05 Dyrcona rfrausr: That's what you think......
10:05 * bshum crosses fingers for git plugin, but doesn't hold too much hope yet.
10:05 Dyrcona ;)
10:05 rfrasur Dyrcona: The actual software is - because it's not human.  The people creating it, however, are always...and the entities.
10:06 rfrasur ONLY the actual software is.  Although it may be a reflection of the creator...which isn't its fault or choice.
10:06 Dyrcona rfrasur: I disagree because tools are made by humans for a purpose, and therefore political.
10:07 rfrasur I don't think a thing is anything until it's implemented.  Well, it's whatever it's made of...but until it's doing something, it has no moral implications.
10:07 rfrasur (I think my brain just broke)
10:08 Dyrcona Despite the disclaimer of "fitness for a specific purpose" everything is made with "fitness for a specific purpose" in mind.
10:08 rfrasur true - it is.  But it means nothing until that purpose is realized...or the realization begins at least.
10:09 pinesol_green [evergreen|Pasi Kallinen] Fix untranslatable strings in the selfcheck interface. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=153a840>
10:09 bshum So maybe it was the merge commit throwing things off for the plugin.
10:10 bshum That's annoying.
10:10 rfrasur (eggs still taste better than instant breakfast)
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10:17 bshum berick: I didn't get to mention this yesterday, but the following is a list of 10 bugs that have been marked specifically for backport consideration to series 2.3: http://ur1.ca/eogyo
10:17 bshum Of those, I'm still figuring out which we ought to really backport, the KPAC translation one has me iffy.
10:18 rfrasur Dyrcona: update - our copy of "This Film is Not Yet Rated" came in.  It's got a big black circle.
10:19 paxed bshum: my opinion is: don't bother backporting pure translation ones.
10:19 Dyrcona The one I checked out had a black rectangle.
10:19 * Dyrcona finds it amusing that a film about censorship has its cover censored.
10:20 berick bshum: thanks, looking
10:20 * Dyrcona cringed slightly when he was the merge commit yesterday.
10:20 Dyrcona s/was/saw/
10:20 Dyrcona Must be using a mirror to type....
10:21 rfrasur "Don't just commit...BE the commit"
10:21 paxed bshum: too many untranslatable strings all over the place, it's just not worth it. if someone wants more of eg translated they can update. and those who use it in non-english already have been doing so for a while, so wouldn't really notice anyway.
10:21 rfrasur developer zen
10:21 Dyrcona We use git because all code must be committed.
10:22 * rfrasur chuckles
10:22 * paxed just likes the pulling and pushing.
10:24 mrpeters hey cool, i got some code committed, thanks paxed
10:24 mrpeters and bshum
10:24 bshum Since we're not doing another 2.2 outside of security releases, going to handle all the remaining 2.2 targeted bugs.
10:24 paxed i found the selfcheck ugly when i looked through it :P
10:24 mrpeters wishes i still had time to work on stuff :(
10:25 mrpeters speaking of....im not doing my job as bug wrangler....i probably need to resign from that post for a while
10:25 mrpeters who is the chief now?
10:26 bshum I sort of took defacto chief without the title.
10:26 mrpeters ill let u make hte call on if u want me to still have the permissions or not
10:26 bshum I don't consider it a post you hold, you can keep wrangling when you have time or not mrpeters, I don't mind.
10:26 mrpeters i just honestly dont have time to participate regularly
10:26 mrpeters ok
10:27 mrpeters im down with that
10:27 berick bshum: those all look sane to me for 2.3.  note the kpac branch, though, points to a branch which appears to have been deleted
10:27 bshum berick: Figures.  Given what paxed said anyways, we can probably just skip that one then.
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10:41 berick i have a proposal for merge back-porting.. if the fix merges cleanly and it works fine in later versions and it's reasonable to assume the patch won't cause problems, just back-port it, pretty plz.
10:41 berick e.g. the kpac patch which did  "foo" -> l("foo") is obviously fine if it merges cleanly
10:43 senator +1  bugs that only emerge in backports have not been an issue that we've had, as far as i'm aware
10:45 phasefx +1
10:52 eeevil POLL TIME! (related to berick's plea above)
10:53 Dyrcona It doesn't affect me, so I should abstain.
10:54 senator well, as a committer you might be dealing with a bugfix that's appropriate for backport, even though your site doesn't run the numbered releases
10:55 senator right?
10:55 eeevil if a patch is in use in production and "does what it says on the tin", what is the opinion of allowing that to stand in for signoff by a human? I'm looking for opportunities to get working fixes out to more users, especially for widespread (but "annoying" rather than "crippling") issues
10:56 eeevil Dyrcona: I hadn't asked my poll question ;) (but, on berick's point I'm +1 as well. please backport bug fixes)
10:57 Dyrcona Oh.
10:57 eeevil sorry for confusing things ... I didn't me "on berick's point" when I said related, but that's certainly what it looked like ... my bad
10:57 rfrasur Is this a one question poll?
10:58 eeevil rfrasur: heh... I'll restate because I'm being extra unclear today :)
10:58 eeevil opinions sought: if a patch is in use in production and "does what it says on the tin", what is the opinion of allowing that to stand in for sign-off by a human?
10:58 paxed another reason not to bother with that particular kpac translation: bug 1095280
10:58 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1095280 in Evergreen "Build process doesn't get all translatable strings from templates" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1095280
10:59 * paxed plays the devil's advocate
10:59 Dyrcona For fixes: +1
11:00 eeevil Dyrcona: and, another wrinkle (though, if "in production" is enough, I don't personally see it as an issue) ... if the eventual committer is also the author?
11:00 Dyrcona eeevil: I don't have a problem with that for bug fixes.
11:01 eeevil I want to find the balance between the agreed-upon "more eyes required" community process and the fact that, sometimes, there's just not enough hours in the day or tuits lacking corners to get important but "boring" fixes in
11:01 Dyrcona Right.
11:01 * rfrasur abstains
11:01 bshum I agree, that approach for important bug fixes sounds reasonable to me too.
11:01 Dyrcona I agree with that sentiment.
11:02 eeevil and, yes, I'm asking this now because there are a pile of these that would make 2.4.1 significantly better, but they haven't gotten developer eyeballs. if production use is "good enough", though, I want to push them in
11:08 eeevil dbs, dbwells, gmcharlt, senator, berick, others?
11:08 senator +1
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11:09 gmcharlt +1
11:09 berick +1 w/ the (probably obvious) caveat that it go on LP and others be given a chance to reivew before merging.
11:09 gmcharlt I agree with berick's caveat
11:10 phasefx +1
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11:10 senator yeah +1 to berick's caveat as well
11:12 dbwells I think the caveat is a good idea, but what would be the timeframe for that?  One week?
11:12 dbs -1 to "in production" as good enough. "in production" means "with one very limited set of settings"
11:13 eeevil dbs: what is good enough, then, for a bug fix?
11:14 dbs and they may be in production, without the other fixes that are in production elsewhere, with not so good results
11:14 eeevil dbs: code changes that aren't tested in production are tested on (normally) one non-author developer's test server
11:15 gmcharlt dbs: I grant that that is a real concern, but do you have any alternative?  a good many things simply do not get tested adequately before they hit master; at least bugfixes that are in actual production use have at least a bit more going for them, no?
11:17 dbs The alternative that I proposed in the past was a commit checklist, which has had no adoption, but would probably be a good idea for sites to look through.
11:18 eeevil to be clear, all, I'm talking about but fixes for common problems. IOW, things that have been seen (in this case, that I have seen) at multiple EG sites, for which a fix has been developed and shown to work
11:18 dbwells I've sometimes wondered if we should adopt a more general bug-aging policy, i.e. and bugfix branch older than X is fair game for the author to commit.  This would not apply to features, and I am not sure what "X" should be.
11:19 dbs Note that I serve as a warning; I created a fix for the fine generator logs that silenced the logs, but with the unexpected side effect of a closed date preventing fines from continuing
11:19 eeevil s/but/bug/
11:19 dbwells I know it isn't the ideal, but an attempt to be realistic about what we can actually accomplish, which I think is what we are talking about here.
11:21 eeevil dbs: you're not alone, as you well know (**points at self**), but that's also much more rare these days
11:21 dbs I'm not sure we know what we _want_ to accomplish
11:21 eeevil dbwells: for my part, yes, I'm trying to find a way to get real problems fixed without straying from convention where at all possible
11:22 dbs What I would want to accomplish would be to have a reasonable amount of certainty that a commit doesn't introduce regressions for common but complex scenarios.
11:23 dbs Sounds like phasefx is working towards that with the recreation of Ben's effort from a couple of summers back of an auto-installing VM that runs various test cases and reports on the results, which would be a good move.
11:23 eeevil dbs: in an existential sense? ;)  I know what I'm trying to accomplish: fixes are offered based on problems at live sites, but they are not of the type that many EG developers care about, or feel comfortable working on, or believe effects them or their site
11:24 eeevil and I'm trying to find an equivalent to "wait for someone to care"
11:25 dbs eeevil: no, I sometimes wonder whether one of the goals is "bug inbox zero" and whether that's actually a worthwhile goal (sez the guy with a mail inbox in the thousands)
11:25 rfrasur I wonder, and I know there's more to it than this, and feel free to ignore...but say there are 30 that could be committed...the in production fixes...and 10 of them cause another problem.  Isn't that still 20 that didn't and 10 that can have new bug reports filed that push them on to the most recent version...and get more attention?
11:25 dbs wasn't there a bug that was opened and committed in less than half an hour last week?
11:26 dbs https://bugs.launchpad.net/eve​rgreen/+bug/1200735/+activity - people care about some things
11:26 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1200735 in Evergreen 2.4 "patron search by user name can be slow" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,Fix committed]
11:27 eeevil they certainly do
11:31 dbs fwiw, postgresql is struggling with the "we need reviewers" problem too. It's a hard problem. I'm still -1 to this proposal, but it's not like the decision needs to be unanimous.
11:31 berick funny, i patted myself on the back for getting that taken care of quickly.
11:32 * berick reminds self to let things simmer in all cases
11:33 gmcharlt it also points to another factor -- simmering time as compared to the complexity of the patch
11:33 dbwells I am also -1 on this proposal, but that is mostly out of default, and not having enough time and information to properly consider the whole situation.
11:33 eeevil since there is reasonable and thoughtful objection to "production testing is not enough", I'll be leaving 2 bug fixes unmerged for 2.4.1, unless someone wants to put their name on them next to mine.  the two bugs, for reference, are: https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1200770 https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1200768
11:33 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1200770 in Evergreen 2.4 "Search result rendering can crush the system" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [High,New]
11:33 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1200768 in Evergreen "2 remaining authority fixed fields out of whack" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Medium,New]
11:34 gmcharlt I can vouch for 1200700, having done quite a bit of back and forth with eeevil over it, FWIW
11:34 dbs bug 1200700
11:34 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1200700 in touch-preview-images "mako cannot suspend due to sensor activity" (affected: 2, heat: 12) [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200700
11:35 gmcharlt 1200770, that is # base 16 for LP numbers, pretty please! ;)
11:35 dbs Man, you guys do some wayout things
11:35 dbs :)
11:35 dbwells :)
11:35 gmcharlt dbs: I keep saying I want robots at the circ desk! :)
11:36 dbs complexity, severity, local priorities, expertise - all compounding factors, and poor old i18n gets crushed in many cases :/
11:36 eeevil there's a third that I wanted to get in too, and if my stirring up this mess gets eyes on it that it's been worth it, but it's much newer than those two: https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1201962
11:36 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1201962 in Evergreen 2.4 "hold count by record includes useless where clause" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Medium,New]
11:37 dbs eeevil: yeah, that one sounded good.
11:38 dbs Many of these would be slam-dunks if we could drop them in, run a standard set of system tests, and note any differences in performance or output
11:39 dbs Otherwise, we eyeball it and take our chances, or go through the laborious process of setting up a test environment, test data, profiling, etc to try and do what machines do better anyway
11:39 eeevil dbs: right, and that is what phasefx is working towards, but until then my hope was (in the case of 1200770) that multiple production sites would be enough
11:39 dbwells eeevil: thanks for posting the bugs, I think that clarifies what you are asking
11:40 eeevil hrm, perhaps that's a factor to consider, actually.  if /multiple/ production sites use the fix, does that make a difference in terms of "production = sign-off"?
11:41 gmcharlt could that be reified a bit?  i.e., ask affected users to sign off (or simply posted in the LP bug)?
11:41 gmcharlt *post in the LP bug
11:42 phasefx fwiw, I ask customers to click the Affects Me thing in launchpad
11:42 phasefx or even provide feedback on whether a fix works
11:43 dbwells Whenever I review a patch, if it notes that it is used in production, that is major boost to my confidence in the fix.  Maybe the best thing to do is simply be more overt about it, and thereby increase reviewer confidence?
11:46 dbs multiple production sites with different configurations, usage profiles, etc, sure; i'm with dbwells on the confidence boost
11:46 eeevil dbwells: part of the problem is getting reviewers, IME ... but, that's a great idea and I'll make a point of doing that
11:48 eeevil as for getting users to poke the bug, sure. for those engaged, absolutely (and, in these cases, several are and would)
11:48 dbs in retrospect, this might have been a good topic for the dev meeting
11:49 eeevil dbs: yes, I should have raised it then (I realized that when I started the "poll time" stuff...)
11:49 rfrasur (there will be another)
11:49 eeevil but I figured better now than wait another month/release
11:51 dbs Maybe post a summary to the mailing list? For those who didn't happen to be in-channel at the time?
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11:54 eeevil I'd feel comfortable mentioning the discussion and my position, and pointing to the IRC logs, but I don't want to misrepresent anyone in a summary (TBH, I don't understand some positions well enough to summarize, but that's certainly my own failing)
11:55 senator you could tally the votes though, right? no big deal to do that, and it makes for an easier read
11:55 eeevil but, yes, wider (transparent) discussion is certainly warranted. at the very least, amongst the committers who will be tasked with cleaning up the fallout of any changes to the process or code... should such changes occur ;)
11:56 dbwells Is anyone actively working on bug 1200770?  If not, I'll give it a go.
11:56 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1200770 in Evergreen 2.4 "Search result rendering can crush the system" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200770
11:56 eeevil senator: sure .. but I don't want to give this the weight of any sort of "official" vote. I really was looking for opinions to see if my interpretation of the /intent/ of our policies was in line with everyone else
11:57 eeevil dbwells: I think you can safely assume no (and even if that's wrong, more eyes!)
11:58 rfrasur kmlussier++
11:59 gmcharlt speaking of the dev meeting ... I found it unfortunate that it was lightly attended, particularly in comparison to previous ones
11:59 gmcharlt just summer doldrums?
12:00 * senator imagines a literal absence of trade winds to tumble interested parties toward machines with IRC clients
12:00 * kmlussier pokes her head up.
12:00 * gmcharlt will start huffing and puffing before the next one, then ;)
12:01 kmlussier I think the June one was quiet too.
12:02 rfrasur June/July is busy time for other things.  Maybe related?
12:03 Dyrcona I had another meeting to attend with the people who pay my salary, so paycheck won out.
12:03 rfrasur paychecks++
12:03 kmlussier Dyrcona++
12:04 * dbs is trying to transition into more of a focus on schema.org, although fortuitously I get to hack on Evergreen as a reference implementation
12:06 dbs also full-text search on PostgreSQL; also (tertiary) mozilla dev docs
12:08 dbs and in my spare time, i'd like to actually work on TPAC responsive design more seriously.
12:08 rfrasur spare_time++
12:09 rfrasur spare_time=imaginary
12:09 dbs Meanwhile it's one of the two or three weeks of the year where I actually wish we had A/C.
12:10 dbs rfrasur: in theory, TPAC responsive design + mozilla dev docs + schema.org reference implementation all intersect, if you squint the right way
12:10 rfrasur if we didn't have A/C, I'd be revolting
12:10 rfrasur dbs: not sure you have to squint too much to see the intersection.
12:11 * rfrasur has successfully tracked down all lib credit card receipts to reconcile statement and now wonders why exactly she's doing this job.
12:12 senator dbs: before we all had AC down here, we had the mint julep
12:13 rfrasur (to feed and clothe your children)
12:13 rfrasur senator: I like that idea.
12:19 dbwells eeevil: re:1200770, it seems like we might be missing an 'next' where we push the $bid back on.  Otherwise, it seems like we end up running the request again anyway, since it is in just a bare 'else'.
12:21 * eeevil looks
12:22 dbs QA note for phasefx: recording log file sizes and looking for size increases over time might be worthwhile
12:23 phasefx dbs: good idea.  Besides explicit tests with assertions, I'm also thinking of doing straight up diffs of various outputs between runs, and logs certainly qualify
12:25 dbs phasefx: yeah, diffs of expected output is pretty common. logs are going to be fuzzier due to time stamps and what not :/
12:25 phasefx yeah
12:27 eeevil dbwells: yes.  I'm going to force-push a 'next' in there
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12:30 eeevil dbwells: complete
12:30 dbwells eeevil: thanks, will test
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12:36 eeevil dbwells: thank you, kind sir
12:36 remingtron joined #evergreen
12:41 gmcharlt dbwells++
12:41 gmcharlt eeevil: I'm going to do some torture testing of that now
12:41 eeevil gmcharlt: cool, thanks
12:46 gmcharlt eeevil: OK, looks good
12:46 gmcharlt again
12:46 gmcharlt dbwells++
12:47 dbwells ok, everything looks fine from this end, signing-off now
12:52 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Implement a concurrent-run cache for result rendering a la initial search queue compression - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=ae25f78>
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13:15 rfrasur We used to have a part-time bookkeeper that would come to the library twice a month.  I have no idea how she got it all done in that amt of time.  Either she was WAY better or I'm adding work (or both).
13:20 eeevil so ... anybody care to grab 28c99aa069973994a0feef7a4a6841b035806b9f from bug 1200768?
13:20 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1200768 in Evergreen "2 remaining authority fixed fields out of whack" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200768
13:21 dMiller joined #evergreen
13:23 eeevil grabbing 0810 and and 0811
13:32 rfrasur @hates Internet Explorer
13:32 pinesol_green rfrasur: (hates [<channel>] [<user>]) -- Find out what <user> hates
13:32 kmlussier @hate Internet Explorer
13:32 pinesol_green kmlussier: The operation succeeded.  kmlussier hates Internet Explorer.
13:32 pinesol_green [evergreen|Lebbeous Fogle-Weekley] Authorities: 4XX fields have wrong names - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=a4266ef>
13:32 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Stamping upgrade script for authority labeling fix - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=bc9ea5c>
13:32 pinesol_green [evergreen|Fredrick Parks] LP 1103706 Hold ratios in circ policies cause errors when trying to renew items - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=8961846>
13:32 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Stamping upgrade script for copy stats SP fix - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=71b2988>
13:33 rfrasur @hate Internet Explorer
13:33 pinesol_green rfrasur: The operation succeeded.  rfrasur hates Internet Explorer.
13:33 kmlussier @whocares Internet Explorer
13:33 pinesol_green kmlussier and rfrasur hate Internet Explorer
13:33 kmlussier @whocares IE
13:33 pinesol_green kmlussier: I can't find anyone who loves or hates IE.
13:33 rfrasur @hate IE
13:33 pinesol_green rfrasur: The operation succeeded.  rfrasur hates IE.
13:34 rfrasur @hate little blue e
13:34 pinesol_green rfrasur: The operation succeeded.  rfrasur hates little blue e.
13:38 pinesol_green [evergreen|Dan Scott] Avoid Z39.50 search warning for uninit var - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=55e62cb>
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13:44 * paxed bravely slays another small bug.
13:44 rfrasur paxed++
13:45 * rfrasur wishes there was a lefthanded tab key
13:46 * tsbere has had keyboards with 3 different tab keys before
13:46 rfrasur did they come that way or did you map the keys?
13:46 tsbere came that way. One in the normal spot, one on the right, and one on the numpad
13:47 rfrasur that's what I really want.  one on the number pad
13:47 tsbere I have also had secondary numpads that included tab keys. Both PS2 and USB variants.
13:48 rfrasur hmm, that might be a better option.  I'll have to look and see if there's one that could a legit replacement for adding machine as well.
13:48 * rfrasur triple checks math
13:49 Dyrcona http://www.amazon.com/Perixx-PERIPAD-20​1B-Numeric-Keypad-Laptop/dp/B001R674LE
13:50 Dyrcona Second hit on a google search. Dunno if it would double as an adding machine to your satisfaction.
13:50 dMiller__ joined #evergreen
13:50 rfrasur no, but am looking.  it'd work as just a ten key replacement though. (I dunno why people turn off number lock anyway)
13:51 * tsbere sometimes uses numlock as a toggle for game controls, so that the numpad can serve two very different mapping purposes
13:51 Dyrcona I know why people turn off number lock, one big reason being games.
13:51 Dyrcona tsbere: Jinx!
13:51 Dyrcona ;)
13:51 rfrasur lol, yeah...was thinking that.
13:52 * rfrasur obviously doesn't game
13:52 tsbere Some games that doesn't work for. They ignore the numlock status. <_<
13:52 rfrasur well...and the same directional keys are already there...though I guess you could map the entire number pad.
13:59 rfrasur http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/UDDhY-a8Zjc/hqdefault.jpg something more like that.
14:00 rfrasur tho it's still obnoxiously big...but I guess something w/ a roll of paper will do that.
14:01 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Optimize away always-true hold count clause - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=0c65803>
14:01 eeevil wheee! thanks, senator!
14:02 eeevil ok, hearing no response to my plea for eyes on 1200768, I'm starting the 2.4.1 cutting for realz
14:14 * rfrasur cannot believe that it required $240 worth of work to fix one leaky faucet and replace interior parts of 3 toilets.
14:14 * rfrasur could have fixed the stupid toilets
14:14 eeevil because there was concern that 2.4.0 got the wrong translations, I want to be clear about what I'm doing for i18n.  the first thing I'm doing is following http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2.2​/_updating_the_translations.html
14:15 eeevil paxed / dbs: that's still correct, yes?
14:22 gsams joined #evergreen
14:28 eeevil silence equals consent! (j/k .. but I think it's still right)
14:28 rfrasur eeevil++
14:30 * dbs would at least suggest looking at the 2.4 docs, even though they're the same :)
14:34 paxed eeevil: "got the wrong translations"?
14:34 bshum bradl: I think I'm going to need to borrow some of your patience.  Charter can't figure out my problems so they're going to send another team later in the next couple days to look at boxes further up our cable route.
14:36 kmlussier bshum: It's because you laughed at the idea that your tech problems were caused by Mercury being in retrograde.
14:37 rfrasur kmlussier++
14:37 rfrasur charter--
14:39 rfrasur bitesize_snickers++
14:39 dboyle joined #evergreen
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14:41 bshum kmlussier: I paid for that in more than one way I think.
14:42 eeevil paxed: something about they were from March instead of May?
14:42 eeevil in any case, all I know is to pull from bzr at lauchpad
14:45 eeevil dbs: and, yes ... good point :)
14:54 * dbs finds it odd / disturbing that tpac.pot isn't in the translation-export branch, but might have forgotten everything about how launchpad translations work
14:56 * rfrasur balanced the credit card statement on the first try!
14:58 jboyer-isl 9 joins in one query. I hate dealing with money.
14:58 jboyer-isl Bonus: doesn't work.
14:59 rfrasur jboyer-isl: in EG? we haven't tried balancing EG w/ anything yet as far as money goes.
14:59 * rfrasur cringes at the thought.
14:59 jboyer-isl I'm working on the thing that you'll need to balance in the future. It's not a great time.
14:59 jboyer-isl On this end. What it will give you is great. When it works.
15:00 rfrasur jboyer-isl: I'd said I was excited about it...but let's be serious.
15:00 * rfrasur has been doing accounting for 5 hours
15:00 * rfrasur is a librarian
15:01 jboyer-isl "Great" might be a bit much, but "not horrible" doesn't have the same ring to it.
15:01 rfrasur no, no.  I like "not horrible."
15:01 rfrasur it's much less intimidating
15:03 Dyrcona Kind of like "mostly harmless?"
15:03 * rfrasur likes that too...
15:04 rfrasur although when it deals with money, I'd prefer "mostly works but can be finagled into some semblance of accuracy and compliance."
15:04 jboyer-isl You can finaggle things for 6 libraries, but not 106.
15:04 Dyrcona When it comes to accounting, I'd just point to the big 5 banks and say, "If they don't have to, why should I?"
15:05 rfrasur Dyrcona: because we're little and easily squashable.
15:05 rfrasur jboyer-isl: truth
15:07 Dyrcona jboyer-isl: You can finagle anything for any number of anyones.... You just have to be a CPA.
15:07 Dyrcona Oops. I got political again.
15:07 * Dyrcona shuts up.
15:07 rfrasur Dyrcona++ # Happy Wednesday
15:08 paxed less than 2 hours left of it... so i'm going to bed. g'night folks.
15:08 Dyrcona jboyer-isl: On a related note: If you think billing is a mess now, just wait until I'm done with it this summer. ;)
15:08 rfrasur g'nite paxed
15:08 Dyrcona good night.
15:08 rfrasur (okay thank you Lord...they're printing in the right order this time)
15:08 jboyer-isl That's good an ominous. I take it you won't be consolidating anything then?
15:09 Dyrcona No plans for much consolidation.
15:09 jboyer-isl an = and. sometimes I actually annunciate.
15:10 Dyrcona Typos are excused in IRC.
15:10 Dyrcona At least in this channel.
15:10 jboyer-isl Oh well. As long as large portions aren't ripped out and re-plumbed, I'm hoping that what I'm doing won't need to be updated (much.)
15:10 Dyrcona http://www.sigio.com/evergreen/billing2013.html
15:11 Dyrcona That's the main specification document.
15:14 jboyer-isl void_payment will actually do me a bit of good, then I can just ignore things past a certain date rather than sprinkle "...voided IS FALSE" around. The rest shouldn't hurt. They sound like really positive improvements.
15:14 rfrasur @hate void
15:14 pinesol_green rfrasur: The operation succeeded.  rfrasur hates void.
15:15 * Dyrcona wrote for a 'zine called VOID back in High School.
15:15 rfrasur I don't hate THAT void
15:15 Dyrcona heh.
15:15 Dyrcona Typicaly teenage angst and anarchism.
15:15 rfrasur of course.
15:16 kmlussier jboyer-isl: What are you working on in billing?
15:17 jboyer-isl Oh, we're trying to allow patrons to pay all of their bills at any location, but still get the money where it's supposed to go. We're close, but the process we've had misses some things and duplicates others. I'm trying to hammer things into a shape that looks more correct.
15:18 rfrasur the shape of a dollar sign, that is.  cha-ching
15:19 kmlussier jboyer-isl: Sounds good.
15:19 berick @isitdown http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/
15:19 pinesol_green berick: Zoia knows how to make fusilli.
15:19 * berick chuckles
15:19 rfrasur lol
15:22 rfrasur well y'all.  thanks for not kicking me out today.  Time to hit the road...but not literally...because I'm pain averse.  Be well, stay cool...and stop working soon.
15:26 bshum dbwells: Active directory question (some folks thinking to explore this more), is it just to set the options in opensrf.xml according? Or is there some user sync up that needs to occur to get Evergreen to recognize user in Evergreen = user in AD?
15:27 ericar joined #evergreen
15:28 * bshum should go find the original docs actually.
15:28 * bshum will do some more research
15:28 * eeevil enters the i18n-building doldrums
15:28 dbwells bshum: if they have the same username, they are the same user as far as the code is concerned.
15:28 dbwells The process of getting the users into Evergreen is separate.
15:29 eeevil and left as an exercise for the reader ;)
15:30 bshum dbwells: Gotcha.  I guess we'll have to ponder how that happens.
15:30 bshum Thanks!
15:30 dbs If one has as sadistic an IT department as ours, one might be able to do something with http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=contrib/Conif​er.git;a=blob;f=tools/patron-load/ldap_osrf_s​ync;h=cf3c9b8edbffdb4d458baa2d88dcb61a2a7c0ac​1;hb=refs/heads/feature/tools/patron_load_2_4
15:32 dbs Requires a few other branches for auto-generating barcodes and using email addresses for usrname rather than LDAP CNs under the covers, and lots of local customization... but works for us.
15:34 bshum dbs: Ooh, thanks that might prove useful too.
15:34 bshum It's some school system that's thinking to use active directory authentication for their students.
15:34 bshum We've never done it before, so it'll be an interesting little exercise.
15:37 dbwells bshum: our LDAP user sync script was the first thing I wrote for our Evergreen migration way back when.  It's still kicking, but I am mostly afraid to look at it these days.  That said, at least it isn't Python ;)
15:37 eeevil dbwells++ ;)
15:38 berick hey, someone that's not me used the python libs.  dbs++
15:38 * berick has to balance the karma
15:40 dbs But where are our Go bindings? :)
15:41 * dbs is self-hosting goread.io on a free-tier app engine instance; Go + AngularJS + Google App Engine, innarestin' world
15:42 * berick hasn't made it past the online Go tutorial yet
15:42 berick which was cool, btw
15:42 bshum dbwells: I might poke you more about that later too then.
15:55 eeevil re-entering i18n doldrums ... makensis :(
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16:22 dbs Dyrcona: re bug 1201982 - can you verify that misc_util.tt2 matches the diff at http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=worki​ng/Evergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=aeabe​10c51b502a7d9256c2e760fca13e726fdf3 on your test server?
16:22 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1201982 in Evergreen "TPAC: In copy table, link library name to an external URL (if OU setting exists)" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201982
16:27 Dyrcona No, it doesn't.
16:27 Dyrcona I'll make a new branch for tomorrow.
16:27 * dbs feels his "warning: high levels of insanity" alert subsiding :)
16:28 dbs Dyrcona++
16:28 Dyrcona I did a git merge and thought it looked a little weird as the list of modified files showed up.
16:29 dbs might have been my fault for rebasing & force-pushing
16:30 kmlussier dbs: Sorry! Didn't mean to trigger any insanity alerts. :)
16:30 Dyrcona Well, that's probably why the merge came out like it did, but I wouldn't exactly say it was your fault.
16:30 * Dyrcona just discovered that Chromium allows you to drag tabs between windows. That is useful with two monitors.
16:32 * dbs just updated the bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen help stuff to ask people for "what happened / what did you expect to happen / what steps can we follow to reproduce this problem" in bug reports
16:33 * berick sends out his preview uploaded form letter
16:33 dbs not related to the linked libraries thing! also, yes, dragging tabs around is good :)
16:33 Dyrcona Yeah, I love it when we get bugs reports of "I did Y and X happened."
16:34 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Pulling in 2.4.1 upgrade script - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=32c56dc>
16:34 gmcharlt Dyrcona: ... and I expected Z (not D, E, or F)
16:35 Dyrcona gmcharlt: No, they never tell us what they expected. I am tempted to just close the ticket with X is the expected behavior.
16:35 Dyrcona We don't get a lot of that on Launchpad, though once in a while....
16:40 eeevil SUPER: "asciidoc: WARNING: README: line 390: no output from filter: source-highlight -f xhtml -s bash" :(
16:40 eeevil and, of course, asciidoc isn't on lupin. ah, well ... any ideas, anyone?
16:41 Dyrcona Try changing to sh instead of bash in the README?
16:41 * eeevil attempts
16:42 dbs might depend on the version of source-highlight, too. I'm pretty sure [source, bash] is used heavily
16:43 dbs Yeah. what are you building on?
16:43 eeevil dbs: actually, I'm sure that's it. /me looks for an update
16:43 eeevil this step is being attempted on slackware :)
16:43 dbs GNU Source-highlight 3.1.6 (library: 4:0:0) here on good ol' Fedora
16:44 Dyrcona Version 3.1.5-1 on Ubuntu 12.04.
16:44 eeevil 3.1.7 here
16:45 zxiiro joined #evergreen
16:46 Dyrcona kmlussier: I have the branch ready so I'm just going to go ahead and build it. I think I'll need to run two upgrade scripts: 0810 and 0811.
16:51 Dyrcona Hrm..... Not in master?
16:51 Dyrcona Doh.....
16:51 Dyrcona pushed a new branch to the dev vm, but didn't check it out.
16:52 smyers__ joined #evergreen
16:53 dMiller_ joined #evergreen
16:53 Dyrcona Well..... That's embarrassing. Seems that I forgot a pull.
16:58 kayals_ joined #evergreen
17:03 eeevil ok, well, readme will have to wait
17:03 eeevil asciidoc hates me a LOT today
17:04 kmlussier That's because Mercury is in retrograde.
17:05 Dyrcona Yes, I can see how that would make communications difficult. ;)
17:05 eeevil kmlussier: that's what bshum was saying on the twitters ... I'm starting to believe it
17:06 bshum I can't even remember what day of the week it is anymore.
17:08 Dyrcona ALTER FUNCTION action.copy_related_hold_stats(bigint)
17:08 Dyrcona OWNER TO evergreen;
17:08 Dyrcona Looks like a "bug" in the 0811 upgrade script to me.....
17:08 eeevil ok ... testers wanted! http://evergreen-ils.org/downloads/previews/ has a pile of 2.4.1 files for lookin'. tests appreciated. waiting for at least one set of eyes to avoid brown-bagging
17:08 eeevil AND THERE'S THER FIRST! ;)
17:09 eeevil Dyrcona: yeah... I'm gonna remove that with a big ol' chainsaw
17:09 dbs Dyrcona++
17:11 Dyrcona bah. pushing to a checked out branch is not advisable....
17:16 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Explicit function ownership is not the job of upgrade scripts - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=e66ddf9>
17:17 eeevil berick: I'll leave extracting that ALTER FUNCTION line from 2.3 to you, so I'm not changing rel_2_3 while you're doing the release dance
17:21 Dyrcona kmlussier: All the latest goodies are installed on my dev VM.
17:22 mmorgan left #evergreen
17:22 berick eeevil: what's problem exactly?
17:22 eeevil aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand makerelease didn't make a changelog
17:23 eeevil WHE
17:23 kmlussier Dyrcona++
17:23 eeevil berick: if your PG user isn't called 'evergreen' then *boom*
17:23 berick oohh
17:23 berick no wonder I got no boom ;)
17:23 Dyrcona Yep. that's what happened when I applied to my development db.
17:23 berick thanks for the heads up
17:23 eeevil me too :)
17:26 eeevil ok ... well, the 2.4.1 stuff is "ready", except for the README html generation and the changelog. I'll do those by hand tomorrow. testers wanted ... TIA
17:28 rfrasur joined #evergreen
17:35 smyers__ After reading the evergreen paid support vendors thread I was wondering what the protocol for updating the list here is http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/d​oku.php?id=faqs:evergreen_companies
17:35 PNorton left #evergreen
17:35 smyers__ I have an account and can edit the page just looking for comfirmation that its the correct way to go about that
17:37 phasefx smyers__: there's no real protocol yet, though I hope we get one; feel free to put your entry in there in alphabetical order
17:38 smyers__ phasefx: thanks will do
17:38 smyers__ I would hope we get one as well
17:44 * berick applied fixes by hand to the 2.3.9 tarball
17:46 jdouma joined #evergreen
17:47 * rfrasur listens to David Karp and Stephen Colbert.
17:49 ktomita_ joined #evergreen
17:49 rfrasur @wunder 47353
17:49 pinesol_green rfrasur: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Liberty IN US, Liberty, Indiana is 90.0°F (5:26 PM EDT on July 17, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: 71.6°F. Pressure: 30.23 in 1024 hPa (Falling).  Heat advisory in effect until 9 PM EDT Friday...
18:32 gsams joined #evergreen
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19:27 gsams I'm once more on a mission of discovery, I was wondering if anyone might know if it is possible to create a new item status and set it to show up in the catalog as if it were "available."
19:27 gsams so it would show up as a 1/1 in the OPAC if a patron were to look it up
19:28 gsams I know how to create an item status, so I suppose that isn't part of the question really
19:28 gsams but the other part, that one seems a bit involved at the very least.
19:34 mrpeters left #evergreen
19:51 jeff gsams: What's your goal?
19:57 gsams jeff: We have a few libraries that are using Overdrive, they wanted to show the items as available in our system without the status saying available because they feel that would be... confusing...
19:58 jeff gsams: you probably want to use located URIs
19:58 jeff gsams: you can put the link to the overdrive record page in an 856 tag in the bib record
19:59 jeff gsams: you tag it with an org unit shortname, and then that bib (and a link to the overdrive record) will show in search results for that library and its children.
19:59 jeff gsams: what version of Evergreen are you on?
19:59 gsams jeff: 2.3.5
20:00 jeff See Making electronic resources visible in the catalog here: http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2.3/_​migrating_from_a_legacy_system.html
20:01 jeff And the 856 tag on this record for an example: http://catalog.tadl.org/eg/opac/record/4​6705848?locg=22;expand=marchtml#marchtml
20:01 jeff (note that we added some bits to our template to make the "Connect to this resource online" button larger)
20:02 jeff That will likely be a better approach than trying to make a new copy status and creating dummy copies.
20:03 gsams jeff: Ah, we already use the 856 tag setup, though apparently not in this way
20:04 gsams http://roanoke.northtexaslibraries.or​g/eg/opac/record/1287079?query=Dead%2​0until%20Dark;qtype=keyword;locg=106
20:04 stevenyvr2 left #evergreen
20:05 gsams I will forward this information on to the people that handle it though, that would be more appropriate.  I can always make a button larger.
20:18 jeff sounds good.
20:22 gsams jeff++
20:23 gsams thanks for your time, this should be easy to convince them of
20:27 jeff you're welcome!

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