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IRC log for #evergreen, 2020-08-20

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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06:00 pinesol News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
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08:54 rjackson_isl good morning all - wondering if an admin with authority to kick off my rjackson_isl_hom could do so as it seems to be stuck for past day without me actually being logged in to it
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11:31 Bmagic If we want SIP to verify a patron's pin number.... anything special required? Does that mean that the SIP connection needs to be done with the Patron's account? AKA the 93 message?
11:33 berick Bmagic: that happens in the Patron Info message
11:33 Bmagic the 63?
11:33 berick yep
11:34 Bmagic Just to clairify: The vendor logs into Evergreen SIP using a pre-configured SIP account. 93 msg -> 94 resp. Then the vendor would query a 63 msg -> 64 resp. And the PIN number is conveyed in the 63 somewhere?
11:39 berick Bmagic: exactly
11:39 Bmagic ty
11:40 Bmagic berick++ # knowledge
11:49 collum joined #evergreen
11:51 jeffdavis Bmagic: downside is that SIP connections are unencrypted by default (you can tunnel over SSH if your vendor supports it) and the password is in plain text. The 64 response also includes personal info like name and home address/contact info so the vendor has access to all of that.
11:52 Bmagic jeffdavis: yep, I wrote a raspberry pi app to help with that issue some time ago https://github.com/mcoia/evergreen_sip_proxy
11:52 jeffdavis ah nice
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12:00 sandbergja__ grabbing 1214
12:02 sandbergja__ actually, ungrabbing 1214
12:02 sandbergja__ never mind!
12:20 mrisher joined #evergreen
12:22 terranm mrisher: I am trying to install this one again - https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1752356
12:22 pinesol Launchpad bug 1752356 in Evergreen 3.4 "webclient offline : expired patrons should show date of block list download" [Medium,Confirmed]
12:23 terranm I don't get any merge conflicts when I load it, but when I try to go to the offline page I get this console error: egLovefield.getOfflineBlockDate is not a function
12:23 terranm it's loaded onto https://terran-master.gapines.org/eg/staff if you want to see
12:33 mrisher terranm: how do I log in to that gapines.org page?
12:34 terranm admin / open-ils
12:35 mrisher I loaded the branch onto my testing environment and am trying it out.  I went to the offline circulation page and so far I'm not seeing any console errors.  I'm using the branch in the last comment -- user/mrisher/lp1752356-offl​ine-block-patron-exp-rebase
12:35 mrisher thanks. I'll try that
12:36 terranm I cherry-picked both the top two commits on that branch, yours, then Bill's
12:40 mrisher confirming that I do get the console error you're talking about.  I'm looking into what's causing this.
12:40 terranm mrisher++
12:43 nfBurton joined #evergreen
12:48 mrisher terranm: I think what's going on is an issue with git.  Instead of cherry-picking the top two commits, try only cherry-picking this one commit https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=wor​king/Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=b029be​cb7736565cf3d28e048166a31e1e36e90b
12:48 terranm mrisher: thanks, I'll try that
12:48 mrisher \that commit should have all the work
12:49 mrisher my apologies if I perhaps the way I rebased it was confusing
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13:06 terranm mrisher: still not working - I refreshed to master and confirmed that I can download the block list without the patch, then reapplied just that commit and it broke it again
13:08 mrisher terranm: so as soon as you visit the page you get that console error "egLovefield.getOfflineBlockDate is not a function" ?
13:08 mrisher I'm investigating
13:08 terranm Yes, thanks
13:30 agoben Reminder, the EOB/TEP board will be meeting in channel in about 30 minutes.
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14:00 agoben #startmeeting EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.​php?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20
14:00 pinesol Meeting started Thu Aug 20 14:00:21 2020 US/Eastern.  The chair is agoben. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00 pinesol Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:00 Topic for #evergreen is now  (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:00 pinesol The meeting name has been set to 'eob_evergreen_project_board_meeting_for_2020​_08_20__agenda__https___wiki_evergreen_ils_or​g_doku_php_id_governance_minutes_2020_08_20'
14:00 agoben #topic Roll Call
14:00 agoben Use the #info command to provide name and affiliation
14:00 Topic for #evergreen is now Roll Call (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:00 agoben #info agoben = Anna Goben, Evergreen Indiana
14:00 dluch #info dluch = Debbie Luchenbill, MOBIUS
14:00 tlittle #info tlittle = Tiffany Little, PINES
14:00 JBoyer #info JBoyer = Jason Boyer, Equinox
14:01 jvwoolf #info jvwoolf = Jessica Woolford, Bibliomation
14:01 rhamby #info rhamby = Rogan Hamby, Equinox
14:01 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, Equinox
14:01 jlundgren #info jlundgren = Jeanette Lundgren, CW MARS
14:01 agoben COwens let me know he will be unable to attend.
14:02 agoben paging nfBurton?
14:02 terranm #info terranm = Terran McCanna, PINES
14:02 agoben Hopefully he'll join us shortly.
14:02 agoben #topic Approval of Minutes
14:02 Topic for #evergreen is now Approval of Minutes (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:02 agoben #info Minutes from 2020-07-16 meeting: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2020/evergreen.2020-07-16-14.00.html
14:02 agoben Corrections, updates, suggestions?
14:03 gmcharlt no suggestions
14:03 JBoyer None here
14:03 agoben #startvote Accept minutes from 2020-07-16? yes, no
14:03 pinesol Begin voting on: Accept minutes from 2020-07-16? Valid vote options are yes, no.
14:03 pinesol Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:03 agoben #vote yes
14:03 JBoyer #vote yes
14:03 jvwoolf #vote yes
14:03 tlittle #vote yes
14:03 jlundgren #vote yes
14:03 dluch #vote yes
14:03 gmcharlt #vote yes
14:03 agoben #endvote
14:03 pinesol Voted on "Accept minutes from 2020-07-16?" Results are
14:03 pinesol yes (7): JBoyer, jvwoolf, tlittle, jlundgren, gmcharlt, dluch, agoben
14:03 agoben #topic Chair Report
14:03 Topic for #evergreen is now Chair Report (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:04 agoben #info No updates here.
14:04 agoben #topic Financial Report
14:04 Topic for #evergreen is now Financial Report (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:04 gmcharlt #info No outlays since the previous meeting
14:04 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt still working on getting tlittle added as bank account signatory
14:05 gmcharlt #action gmcharlt will prepare draft tax return for review by September board meeting
14:05 nfBurton #info nfBurton = Chris Burton, Niagara Falls Public Library
14:05 gmcharlt as a side note, Karen from Conservancy inquiried about the status of the application for tax exempt status
14:05 gmcharlt and is understanding about the IRS backlog
14:05 gmcharlt fin
14:05 agoben Thank you
14:06 agoben gmcharlt++
14:06 agoben #topic SFC Updates
14:06 Topic for #evergreen is now SFC Updates (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:06 agoben So, we already mentioned Karen checking in on the 1023 status, did you want to talk about the grant report?
14:06 gmcharlt still on my plate to draft; will circulate prior to the September meeting
14:07 agoben ++
14:07 gmcharlt also, random late-breaking news: https://twitter.com/conservan​cy/status/1296507541174853632
14:07 agoben Did we work with Deb much?
14:07 gmcharlt (just Conservancy's Director of COmmunity Operations moving on to a different open source organization)
14:07 gmcharlt I don't think we had any significant contact with her
14:07 mrisher joined #evergreen
14:08 agoben Wish her well in her continued pursuits!
14:08 gmcharlt mentioning it mostly because this literally just flew by my Twitter stream
14:08 rfrasur #info rfrasur = Ruth Frasur, Indiana
14:08 tlittle #info gmcharlt will draft and circulate grant report prior to September meeting
14:08 agoben ok, up next then, release news
14:08 agoben #topic Release Manager update
14:08 Topic for #evergreen is now Release Manager update (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:09 agoben I know feedback fest is on in addition to regular release stuff.  Anyone have comments?
14:09 terranm Feedback Fest is going great - 21 pullrequests signed off so far
14:09 gmcharlt good feedback on a number of bugs
14:09 gmcharlt terranm++
14:09 agoben Very nice!
14:09 agoben terranm++
14:10 terranm We have a lot of things loaded on test servers that we need more testers looking at!
14:10 dluch terranm++
14:10 jvwoolf terranm++
14:10 tlittle terranm++
14:10 * gmcharlt uses his non-existant powers of telepathy to make everybody look at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11MjEa8V​8d7NYxVM3s1Ra1IOdbhZPFExoWiWDOAKEXoE/edit#gid=0 and pick up a bug to test
14:10 JBoyer To testers: Feel free to ask questions if you're not sure how to test something or if you think it needs extra setup
14:11 agoben Looking forward to seeing all of the that progress in production!
14:12 terranm Also, there are a lot more pullrequests that aren't currently on a test server, so if anyone has one they really want to test, one of us can try to get it loaded
14:12 agoben Alright, if there are no more updates on the releases/feedback fest, I'll move on to conferences and events.  Best of wishes on the rest of the testing this week!
14:12 agoben #topic Hack-A-Way Update
14:12 Topic for #evergreen is now Hack-A-Way Update (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:12 agoben #info Update available here: http://list.evergreen-ils.org/piper​mail/board/2020-August/000147.html
14:13 agoben rhamby, anything else at this point?
14:13 rhamby Nope, lots going on.  We had a planning meeting that just ended 15 minutes ago and we've got a lot to do but a plan and getting it done.
14:13 rhamby There will be a lot of emails and more communication coming out in the next three weeks.
14:14 agoben Sounds excellent!
14:14 agoben October is sneaking up remarkably fast...
14:14 rhamby agreed
14:14 dluch for real
14:14 agoben #topic 2021 Conference Committee
14:14 Topic for #evergreen is now 2021 Conference Committee (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:14 agoben dluch, updates?
14:16 dluch So, I got the info regarding the pandemic insurance. I'll be happy to forward the whole email thread, but the gist is that we could get "Event Cancellation Insurance" which would cover a number of things. BUT insurance companies are specifically exculding coronavirus from these policies as a "pre-existing" and publicly known thing.
14:16 dluch So we didn't actually sign or apply for anything yet.
14:17 tlittle So the "event cancellation insurance" doesn't cover covid, or just specifically pandemic insurance doesn't?
14:17 agoben Maybe if they'd offer it on the basis of percentage of registrations not meeting expectation rather than "pandemic"?
14:18 terranm insuranceindustry--
14:18 dluch event cancellation insurance we would have to add a "communicable disease" endorsement, but that also doesn't cover COVID. Or government lockdowns at any level.
14:18 agoben Bleah.
14:18 tlittle Okay, I see. Just wanted to make sure I was understanding.
14:18 dluch insuranceindustry-- indeed
14:19 gmcharlt to say nothing of conventionindustry--
14:19 dluch agreed
14:19 JBoyer If "lack of attendance" allowed us to at least get enough out of them to cover the hotel's minimum requirements I'd be interested to know that cost.
14:19 tlittle No kidding. Would agoben's suggestion be something to pursue?
14:19 tlittle Yes, agree
14:19 nfBurton Considering how much we sood to lose if we didn't have cooperation this year, what is our last date to commit
14:19 JBoyer We don't need to know *why* no one is coming...
14:20 agoben Yeah, frankly, I'm gathering it has less to do with COVID and more to do with local belt-tightening due to reduced funding so far.
14:20 dluch I'll forward the email, but here's what it said about that...
14:20 agoben Nothing good I'll wager.
14:20 agoben :/
14:21 dluch Commitments – Previously up to an additional 20%, now up to an additional 25% above limit of indemnity for commitments under vendor contracts such as hotel room blocks.
14:21 JBoyer nfBurton, dluch has the details but I believe we're already on the hook for a significant amount.
14:22 agoben With the hotel, yes, but I think he's asking when we have to have the insurance in place if we get it
14:22 gmcharlt skimming the initial contract, if we cancel between now and October 9th for reasons other than force majeure, the liquidated damages (i.e,. amount owed) is $59,144.00 + tax
14:22 dluch But, again, I don't know if the insurance would accept just a "we didn't get enough revenue from people" if they also can point to COVID. But maybe...
14:22 JBoyer Ah, oops
14:23 gmcharlt and that goes up starting October 10th to $88,671, and $100,493.80 starting January 21st
14:23 agoben So, if we're going to cancel outright, we may need to make that decision in the next month.
14:24 dluch So the cancellation insurance in general might be a good idea, perhaps?
14:24 agoben It'll wipe us out, but at least wouldn't run us too far into the red
14:24 nfBurton Looking for both answers really. :D
14:24 gmcharlt dluch: if we can get it on any terms
14:24 gmcharlt or rather, any terms that are meaningful to us
14:24 agoben dluch, I look forward to reviewing their terms.  I think we should *if* there's any chance of actually benefitting, but don't want to throw good money after bad.
14:25 tlittle I agree
14:25 dluch agoben: I just forwarded you the email chain with all the deets. You can send it to everyone, if you want. (It was just faster to look up one person to forward, lol.)
14:25 agoben That works, I'll send it to the private list for everyone to review.
14:25 tlittle Let me throw some infos in here for the minutes...
14:25 JBoyer tlittle++
14:26 tlittle #info If the contract with the venue is cancelled before Oct 9, the amount owed would be $59k. It goes up after that.
14:26 dluch Donna also said that she's been following a discussion thread on the ICOLC list around event cancellations and what pretty much everyone has said is that they had to negotiate with the venues directly and try to work something out
14:26 tlittle #info dluch will send the email thread concerning the contract to the Board list for review
14:27 tlittle #info General consensus is to review if cancellation insurance would be beneficial and pursue if so
14:27 gmcharlt dluch: that's a good point re negotiating the damges
14:27 tlittle Please add any other infos if I left out anything particularly pertinent for the minutes
14:28 tlittle Yeah
14:28 terranm It is worth keeping in mind for future years to consider doing fewer tracks and/or days to reduce the overhead as well.
14:28 dluch gmcharlt: Yes. At some places, if they agree to hold the next conference there the venues are willing to work it out, especially
14:28 agoben Definitely worth the discussion.
14:28 gmcharlt yeah, very reasonable for us to consider
14:28 tlittle Yes, definitely. If this hasn't died down some by 2022 I will run screaming in the streets :)
14:28 agoben Does anyone in channel think they'll have travel issues still next spring?
14:28 gmcharlt especially... well, things can't remain this bad through 2022, right?
14:29 dluch I have to hope not. *cries
14:29 rhamby I'm checking the window for lightning.
14:29 nfBurton I can't go over the border RN so....
14:29 * JBoyer decides now isn't the time for pessimists to talk
14:29 tlittle We have some travel money in our budget now, but we're also under a travel ban and don't know what it's going to look like in the spring. So PINES is still a question mark
14:29 nfBurton Unless that changes you can probably count out Canada lol
14:29 agoben My agency is killing all travel through September 2021 at this point, so I don't know if I'll be able to attend
14:29 gmcharlt fair to say that Equinox is a question mark as well
14:29 jlundgren travel ban here too.  Not sure what FY21 and 22 state budgets will bring... big ? for spring!
14:30 agoben In that case, would it be wise to have dluch start the discussion with the venue now?
14:30 gmcharlt dluch: by the way, is the venue running any events currently?
14:30 nfBurton Even if travel is possible, I can imagine some libraries being uncomfortable sending staff so soon
14:30 dluch No travel ban for Missouri [We're open for business! ugh.], but we're definitely not traveling this fall.
14:31 dluch gmcharlt: I haven't checked that. Good question.
14:31 gmcharlt agoben: yeah, I think we should get that discussion started
14:31 dluch agoben: I can, definitely. Although from what Donna said from ICOLC list, we also may want/need to have our lawyer involved, too.
14:32 agoben Is there interest in calling a vote to that end and what do we want in the negotiation?
14:32 agoben Are we asking for a reduction in the event size or cancellation terms?
14:32 tlittle Should we vote on on it now, or just ask dluch to do a fact finding mission?
14:32 dluch tlittle: I'm in favor of fact-finding first
14:33 dluch But am okay either way
14:33 gmcharlt I would be in favor of cancellation out right or postponement to 2021, but agree that we should line up our ducks first
14:33 agoben I'm fine with that, just wanted to give you something to work with in the wy of wishes
14:33 nfBurton Yeah, it'd be nice to know the options they will give.
14:33 gmcharlt so, maybe one motion to consider: drafting, not making it yet:
14:34 dluch Okay, so I will explore what the hotel is doing and what options they'll give us and report back, then we can get the lawyer involved and cancel?
14:34 dluch Oh, okay waiting, lol
14:34 gmcharlt "TEP/EOB asks MOBIUS as contracting agency for the 2021 conference to investigation options for cancelling the venue contract prior to October 9th, with the board endorsing the option of agreeing to a postponement of the event to 2022"
14:35 agoben I would accept that motion as written.  Is there a second or further discussion?
14:35 nfBurton Did we agree to a year for Atlanta?
14:35 dluch *investigate
14:35 dluch nfBurton: I don't think we had to
14:36 tlittle So is our intent essentially to postpone / cancel the event?
14:36 nfBurton Awsome. Just making sure
14:36 tlittle Or are we still exploring our options?
14:36 agoben Investigate our options to postpone/cancel
14:36 dluch I know I'm feeling REALLY nervous about it
14:36 dluch *about having it in person
14:36 tlittle Okay. dluch I feel the same way, just wanted to be sure which way we're moving
14:37 tlittle Then I will second the motion
14:37 nfBurton I would second
14:37 nfBurton Or third lol
14:37 gmcharlt we can't absorb the losses if we determine in February that event can't happen but we don't have sufficient cover to invoke force majeure
14:37 agoben #startvote TEP/EOB asks MOBIUS as contracting agency for the 2021 conference to investigate options for cancelling the venue contract prior to October 9th, with the board endorsing the option of agreeing to a postponement of the event to 2022? yes, no
14:37 pinesol Begin voting on: TEP/EOB asks MOBIUS as contracting agency for the 2021 conference to investigate options for cancelling the venue contract prior to October 9th, with the board endorsing the option of agreeing to a postponement of the event to 2022? Valid vote options are yes, no.
14:37 pinesol Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:37 gmcharlt #vote Yes
14:37 nfBurton #vote YES
14:37 agoben #vote yes
14:37 jvwoolf #vote Yes
14:37 JBoyer #vote yes
14:37 dluch #vote yes
14:37 tlittle #vote yes
14:37 jlundgren #vote yes
14:37 agoben #endvote
14:37 pinesol Voted on "TEP/EOB asks MOBIUS as contracting agency for the 2021 conference to investigate options for cancelling the venue contract prior to October 9th, with the board endorsing the option of agreeing to a postponement of the event to 2022?" Results are
14:37 pinesol yes (8): nfBurton, JBoyer, agoben, tlittle, jlundgren, gmcharlt, dluch, jvwoolf
14:38 agoben dluch, good luck with everything there!
14:38 dluch Lol, thanks!
14:38 jvwoolf dluch++
14:38 nfBurton dluch++
14:38 gmcharlt dluch++
14:38 jlundgren dluch++
14:38 JBoyer dluch++
14:38 agoben dluch++
14:38 tlittle dluch++
14:39 agoben whew.  Ok, onward.
14:39 agoben #topic Outreach Committee
14:39 Topic for #evergreen is now Outreach Committee (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:39 agoben #info The Outreach report is available here: http://list.evergreen-ils.org/piper​mail/board/2020-August/000146.html
14:39 agoben Any questions for rhamby?
14:39 rhamby Nothing to add but welcome to take questions, disucssion.
14:39 agoben Sounds like you've been busy!
14:39 rhamby Given the above discussion chat about an electronic events is especially prudent, perhaps.
14:40 rhamby And I know that's later on the agenda.
14:40 agoben yeah
14:40 rhamby So I will stick around to be audience for it.
14:40 agoben ++
14:40 agoben ok, moving on then
14:40 agoben #topic Unfinished Business : NFP Status - 1023 submission status
14:40 Topic for #evergreen is now Unfinished Business : NFP Status - 1023 submission status (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:40 agoben #info 1023 application is still pending.  The IRS is now working on applications from March, so we should have something by next month.
14:40 tlittle Progress!
14:41 agoben I was excited to see they're this much more caught up over last month!
14:41 dluch Yay!
14:41 agoben But hopefully in the next few weeks.
14:42 agoben #topic Unfinished Business : Recommendations of the 2020 Online Conference Committee
14:42 Topic for #evergreen is now Unfinished Business : Recommendations of the 2020 Online Conference Committee (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:42 agoben My number one concern is that I don't feel we can commit to funding anything until we know the impact of the 2021 conference on the community's funds.  I very much like the idea of having an online platform that we can use at will for more regular programs, but we may need every cent we have to survive 2021.
14:42 agoben Depending on how dluch's research goes, I think we'll be better positioned to make this call in October.
14:42 tlittle Given the above discussion about cancelling, I agree
14:42 gmcharlt agreed
14:42 JBoyer Agreed
14:43 agoben Beyond that, what are the recoomendations on who will pursue developing and leading all of the trainings and coordinating speakers since we don't have centralized project staff?
14:44 agoben That wasn't addressed in the recommendations, so I think we should try to get that addressed as well, whether it's a new committee or project lead.
14:44 dluch We've talked about it a little in Outreach, and I think we thought that having a subcommittee of Outreach would be a good idea, and it wouldn't have to just be Outreach Committee members on it. rhamby, did I have that right?
14:45 rhamby Correct.
14:45 rhamby Our thoughts were a smaller event than an online copy of the conference thoughh.
14:45 agoben And that was my reading
14:45 rhamby If the board wants to explore an entire one for one online replacement that might change the discussion a bit.
14:46 rhamby Still, I suspect many of us on outreach would be happy to overlap and be a core of such a group.
14:46 rhamby I won't speak for others individually but my hat is in the ring.
14:46 dluch Yep, I'm in.
14:46 tlittle For the small events, what would the nominal fee be for? Just to reimburse some of the cost of the platform that TEP would (probably) be paying for?
14:46 JBoyer I think a smaller event is reasonable, and does seem to be in the Outreach wheelhouse.
14:46 agoben Just want to be sure there's would be ongoing support
14:46 tlittle I'd also be happy to participate.
14:46 agoben I figured if there were speaker fees, that would also need to be covered by the participant fees
14:46 rhamby For a smaller event we would look at nominal fee to offset the cost of somethign like a Zoom lisence.
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14:47 rhamby If there is a speaker fee, yes, that would have to go into the budget as well.  For a smaller event we probably wouldn't seek out a paid speaker.  For a full conference replacement, we probably would.
14:47 JBoyer And a second, smaller annual fundraiser would be welcome as our larger one is again going to suffer.
14:48 agoben And did I misunderstand?
14:48 agoben I thought this was for multiple small events, not a formal conference.
14:48 dluch Though, I guess, if the community is paying for a platform, we wouldn't need a separate zoom.
14:48 rhamby The recommendation was for a smaller event.  I was responding in part to what I read as "what if we wanted to dod an online full blown conference"
14:49 agoben We'd still need to recoup the cost of the license, but it could be spread out over multiple events if there are multiple
14:49 dluch Yes, so it wouldn't be a burdensome amount per event for folks
14:49 rhamby I think we could pretty comfortably do two a year.
14:49 tlittle Maybe we could do more focused mini-conferences--like a Technical Services conference, or Circulation, or whatever? Kind of the same way we have tracks at the full conference
14:50 rhamby I was thinking general purpose but if we wanted to do them as topic spcific that's an interesting idea.
14:50 dluch tlittle: There has definitely been call for something along those lines in conference feedback surveys
14:50 nfBurton That could be interesting
14:50 jvwoolf I like that idea
14:50 dluch (They were more on the lines of directly targeted tracks at conference, but as mini-conferences that seems like it would work really well
14:50 jvwoolf I think Islandora did something like that for their conference this year. Themed days.
14:51 dluch That's what the MO library association is doing for our October online conference, too
14:51 agoben Sounds like lots of good ideas there!
14:52 agoben I suggest we table any spend then until we hear back from the venue in MO and see what we're able to do then?
14:52 JBoyer Sounds reasonable
14:52 dluch Sounds good to me
14:52 gmcharlt +1
14:52 tlittle +1
14:53 nfBurton +1
14:53 jlundgren +1
14:53 agoben Look forward to seeing it in action as soon as we're able then!
14:53 agoben :)
14:53 tlittle #info The Board will revisit the idea of a community platform after we get a response from the 2021 conference venue to determine upcoming project costs
14:53 agoben Thanks, tlittle
14:53 agoben #topic New Business
14:53 Topic for #evergreen is now New Business (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:53 agoben I have none.  Anyone else?
14:53 JBoyer not me
14:53 tlittle None here
14:53 dluch Nope!
14:54 gmcharlt none
14:54 agoben Ok, then.
14:54 agoben #topic Next meeting
14:54 Topic for #evergreen is now Next meeting (Meeting topic: EOB/Evergreen Project Board meeting for 2020-08-20, agenda: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2020-08-20)
14:54 agoben #info Our next formal meeting will be on September 17, 2020.
14:55 nfBurton agoben++
14:55 agoben We'll see where all of our cans are then that we've been kicking along!
14:55 agoben #endmeeting
14:55 Topic for #evergreen is now Welcome to the #evergreen library system channel! | We are publicly logged: http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/evergreen | Large pastes at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org | Can't speak? Make sure your nickname is registered and that you are identified to freenode services: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration
14:55 pinesol Meeting ended Thu Aug 20 14:55:13 2020 US/Eastern.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
14:55 pinesol Minutes:        http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2020/evergreen.2020-08-20-14.00.html
14:55 pinesol Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2020/evergreen.2020-08-20-14.00.txt
14:55 pinesol Log:            http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergree​n/2020/evergreen.2020-08-20-14.00.log.html
14:55 jvwoolf agoben++
14:55 JBoyer agoben++
14:55 agoben Thanks, everyone!
14:55 jlundgren agoben++
14:55 gmcharlt agoben++
14:55 tlittle agoben++
14:55 jlundgren left #evergreen
14:55 agoben nfBurton++
14:55 agoben jvwoolf++
14:55 agoben jlundgren++
14:55 agoben gmcharlt++
14:55 agoben JBoyer++
14:55 agoben tlittle++
14:55 agoben dluch++
14:56 dluch agoben++
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15:06 JonGeorg I have a library that is trying to use the iMatch service. iMatch cannot connect via yaz on either port 210 or 2210. I can via 2210 internally on localhost:2210, but not on 210. They last successfully connected in June. We did do a minor upgrade in July to incorporate curbside appointments. When I look at the dgo.conf file it points to our app
15:06 JonGeorg server, but at a file location that does not exist. http://app1sage/opac/extras/sru/BCLDIST/holdings. I assume that is supposed to map to either app1 /openils/var/web/opac/extras/sru [- which does not exist]/BCLDIST/holdings or perhaps app1 /openils/var/templates_baker/opac/extras [- which does not exist either] However, when looking through the
15:06 JonGeorg yaz documentation, I get the impression those files are essentially dynamically generated with the connection. I have verified that the ports are open on the firewalls for the two servers, and that they are using the correct ip address. They did have the database name with an Uppercase letter when the dgo.conf file has it all as lowercase, but
15:06 JonGeorg apparently that has not fixed the issue. I'm not seeing anything obvious in the system logs on that server. The error they have gotten range from database not found to system [lower-layer] error. I've done a traceroute to their ip, and added their ip to the firewall all without a change. Does anyone have any ideas on what to look at next?.
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15:17 sandbergja re-grabbing 1214
15:19 mrisher A question recently came up in regards to accessibility.  What screen readers does Evergreen support?   See comments #8 and #9 on this thread https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1795720
15:19 pinesol Launchpad bug 1795720 in Evergreen "Icons in staff client menu bars should be hidden from screen readers" [Medium,Confirmed]
15:20 sandbergja mrisher: I think WebAIM has some really good guidance on this: https://webaim.org/articles/screenreader_testing/
15:22 sandbergja Their guidance is to target principles, guidelines, and best practices rather than specific screenreaders
15:22 mrisher A recent Evergreen audit used JAWS and NVDA.  The article above mentions them and VoiceOver.
15:22 mrisher "JAWS is currently the most popular screen reader, though VoiceOver, NVDA, and others are becoming much more popular due to their features and low cost. "
15:24 mrisher Not sure the process the Evergreen community uses to make a decision like this.
15:24 sandbergja The second point "Should I always test my web content for accessibility using a screen reader?" is a really good one, I think.  I don't know if we have enough people in our dev community who are regular screen reader users
15:24 berick @quote add <tom_waits> The large print giveth and the small print taketh away
15:24 pinesol berick: The operation succeeded.  Quote #206 added.
15:24 berick jus cuz
15:25 sandbergja If we target JAWS, but none of us actually know how to use it, what good does the targetting do?
15:27 mrisher Personally I've used NVDA.  It's free.  It's easy to start using right away.
15:27 mrisher Unfortunately I don't think NVDA is on OS X
15:35 sandbergja I've used NVDA and ChromeVox, but I wouldn't call myself a user of either
15:35 sandbergja There are also screen readers that are not made for blind users; this one is used heavily at my college: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/de​tail/readwrite-for-google-chro/inoeon​mfapjbbkmdafoankkfajkcphgd?hl=en-US
15:35 terranm I've used NVDA just enough to get it installed and learn how to open it, but that's about it
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15:39 terranm As far as bug 1795720 goes, I think it's a given that we should have the aria hidden attribute as a minimum.
15:39 pinesol Launchpad bug 1795720 in Evergreen "Icons in staff client menu bars should be hidden from screen readers" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1795720
15:39 terranm I'm installing that patch now
15:39 terranm (again, since I wiped that server clean)
15:47 mrisher I ran into some bugs using ChromeVox.  Didn't feel like it was working properly.  I forget the specifics.
15:48 mrisher One great feature of Firefox is that you can test accessibility with it.  You can click the "Accessibility" button, click on any web element, and there's a panel telling you what would be read, were you using a screen reader
15:49 sandbergja mrisher: yes! that is pretty sweet
15:49 terranm +1
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15:55 sandbergja Anyway, I'm not too enthusiastic about saying that Evergreen only supports [list] screenreaders.  I am enthusiastic about all the new accessibility fixes that are happening!
15:55 sandbergja mrisher++
15:55 sandbergja terranm++
15:55 terranm accessibility++
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15:57 mrisher Yes, these are good things. I like giving thorough testing instructions.  Should I just say something like "You'll need a screen reader. JAWS and NVDA are popular options." ?
15:57 mrisher Maybe throw in a note about how Firefox can be used if installing a screen reader isn't practical?
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15:58 sandbergja That sounds good to me
15:59 sandbergja And link to some "here's how to get by in JAWS and NVDA" instructions
15:59 sandbergja e.g. https://developer.paciellogroup.com​/blog/2015/01/basic-screen-reader-c​ommands-for-accessibility-testing/
16:00 sandbergja And also linking to some automated accessibility testing tools, too.  They don't catch everything, but are good for finding the basics (e.g. unlabeled form inputs)
16:00 sandbergja aXe is my favorite, but I also use WAVE
16:01 sandbergja also, ng lint can do some accessibility testing too!
16:03 sandbergja See http://codelyzer.com/rules/ -- all the ones that start with template-accessibility
16:07 mrisher just added some testing instructions to https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1887869
16:07 pinesol Launchpad bug 1887869 in Evergreen "Web Staff Client - Accessibility and the Item Edits Page" [Undecided,Confirmed]
16:08 mrisher I didn't see your additional comments about automated tools and ng-lint til after I hit submit
16:08 mrisher terranm: I didn't see 1887869 on the list of feedback fest bugs, but it'd be great if it could be included
16:10 terranm I can bump that one up
16:10 terranm (We started out with about 170 open pullrequests so we couldn't load everything at once)
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16:11 mrisher fair enough.  I'm looking for something to help test myself...
16:15 jihpringle joined #evergreen
16:16 sandbergja mrisher++ # testing instructions
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16:17 pinesol [evergreen|Rogan Hamby] lp1771386 update to record merge assets function to make source bib inactive as well as flagged deleted - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=dc215a9>
16:17 pinesol [evergreen|Jane Sandberg] lp1771386 stamping DB upgrade for inactivate bib on merge - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=23a9428>
16:25 sandbergja mrisher: I know gmcharlt was looking for testers for bug 1850547
16:25 pinesol Launchpad bug 1850547 in Evergreen "Angular Acquisitions Sprint 3: Acquisitions Search" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850547
16:26 mrisher sandbergja: thanks.  I'll take a look at it
16:26 terranm We're hoping to get that one loaded onto a test server that has real PINES data on it too since Acq is such a bear to configure
16:27 sandbergja terranm: would that be available to testers outside PINES?
16:28 sandbergja The acq data in concerto is just so small!
16:30 terranm Not publicly, but Tiffany might be able to set up a private Google Meet session or something
16:31 rhamby concerto needs more acq and more serials
16:31 rhamby among other stuff probably
16:31 terranm +1
16:31 sandbergja rhamby: more books about cats!
16:31 rhamby ferrets
16:32 sandbergja That's my default search, and concerto always has 0
16:32 sandbergja hahaha
16:32 sandbergja there's only one about dragons
16:32 rhamby I have dogs, cats and ferrets so all three are fine with me
16:32 rhamby most of the books in there now I added and tolkien is my default search hence ....
16:33 sandbergja :-)
16:33 rhamby I actually should have added more to have more versions of media for the same title.
16:33 rhamby Once meta record holds came in I wished I'd had audiobook, book and movie fo the various titles, as well as the bankin and rass hobbit as well ... whatever that thing that was done a few years ago.
16:34 rhamby good for authorities too.
16:34 sandbergja oh yes!
16:34 rhamby when I have time it's on my todo list to add those along with authority data for them
16:34 rhamby well more authorities in general but it's a start
16:35 sandbergja well, if you're taking requests, there's the BBC radio production of LOTR
16:37 sandbergja :-)
16:37 rhamby thsoe would be good to include
16:37 terranm +1 to more alternate forms
16:37 rhamby I got part way on building a list for a thorough update of authorities on concerto and ran out of time
16:38 rhamby I might go back to it and just focus on tolkien titles so as to get something in and build in the alernate forms as well as authorities for those at least
16:38 sandbergja that would be pretty sweet!
16:39 sandbergja If you have a list of titles, names, subjects, etc., this script can pull authority records from library of congress: https://github.com/sandber​gja/dlc_authority_fetcher
16:40 rhamby I'll take a look.  I think I was trying to be too complete and often I think "I'll have a good chunk of time this week" and then that doesn't happen.
16:41 rhamby things like this I sometimes sneak in on weekend mornings when the rest of the house is asleep
16:42 sandbergja yeah, I think my most productive hour these days is like 6:30am-7:30am, and then it all goes downhill from there
16:43 sandbergja Oh wow!  The BBC public domain-ized that dramatization!
16:43 sandbergja https://archive.org/details/the-l​ord-of-the-rings-bbc-radio-drama
16:43 sandbergja the music is sooo good!
16:43 dluch agreed!!
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17:28 dbwells JBoyer++
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18:01 pinesol News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
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18:14 csharp @dessert add 31 Unchanged Chunks
18:14 pinesol csharp: The operation succeeded.  Dessert #61 added.
18:14 terranm lol
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