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IRC log for #evergreen, 2019-08-26

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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11:02 pinesol News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
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11:58 pinesol [evergreen|Jane Sandberg] LP1834662: Add date-related components to Angular client. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=d95ab87>
11:58 pinesol [evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834662 Allow date format defaults to persist. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=5f66a61>
11:58 pinesol [evergreen|Jane Sandberg] LP1834662: Various fixes to the datetime select - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=0dc5645>
11:58 pinesol [evergreen|Jane Sandberg] LP1834662: Fix incorrect locale fallback - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=fe0c1ee>
11:58 pinesol [evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834662 Minor lingering lint repair - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=9f4e3b5>
12:00 berick dbs: re: web staff date formats, what locale are your browsers set to?
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12:12 pinesol [evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834665 Import marcrecord.js to Angular - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=61dd202>
12:12 pinesol [evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834665 Angular catalog MARC flat text editor - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=5535f92>
12:12 pinesol [evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834665 Flat text editor uses '$' delimiter - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=a538206>
12:12 pinesol [evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834665 MARC editor success/fail toasts - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=3121c07>
12:12 pinesol [evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834665 Bib summary formats and jacket - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=731ce74>
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12:29 Dyrcona gotta love IRC "conversations" that span multiple days.
12:30 Bmagic the nature of the beast
12:30 Dyrcona berick: I think you're making a mistake waiting for date widgets that let you set the date format programmatically. I don't think it is going to happen.
12:34 berick Dyrcona: i don't either, which is why I also added "or the issue is otherwise resolved"
12:34 berick meaning, sites are able to set the correct locales on their browsers
12:35 Dyrcona Well, we probably should use the browser's locale anyway.
12:36 Dyrcona "Sites" don't need to set the locale. Users do.
12:36 berick apparently some users don't have that access
12:36 Dyrcona Well, naturally. Some system administrators/site policies forbid it.
12:36 Dyrcona That should not be our "problem."
12:36 berick hence "sites"
12:37 berick well, then please add your thoughts to that email thread
12:37 berick or the bug
12:37 * Dyrcona was just looking through the webkit bug tracker and apparently the UI for input date and time is broken...
12:38 Dyrcona I'm not sure if that affects only Safari or all Webkit-based browsers. Otherwise, I'd recommend we do this in the OPAC, too.
12:42 * Dyrcona considers building a webkit browser other than phantomjs to test it.
12:50 Dyrcona IDK. I hope my comment is coherent enough.
12:54 Dyrcona This is a case of Safari on iOS does something that Safari on Mac OS doesn't. It's usually the other way 'round.
13:37 dbs berick: browser language preference (set in Firefox preferences) is "English (Canadian)", but locale (via navigator.languages) shows up as en-US.
13:37 dbs That even though my system locale is also set to en-CA.
13:38 dbs I don't think "set correct locale on your browser" is a real answer anymore
13:39 dbs fwiw, Intl.NumberFormat().resolvedOptions().locale returns 'en-CA' in my browser console
13:39 jeffdavis None of this would be a problem if we'd all just switch to Swatch time.
13:40 berick dbs: what happens if you put a <input type="date" /> on page in your browser?
13:43 berick jeffdavis: crazy, this is the first I'm hearing of Swatch time
13:43 jeffdavis well, there may be a reason for that ... :)
13:44 dbs berick: the one true date format (yyyy - mm - dd) appears
13:44 berick dbs: great, that's what I would hope for
13:44 berick so it is honoring the browser locale/language
13:46 dbs I just changed my browser language preferecne to English (United States) and added <input type="date"> to a page again and it again shows yyyy-mm-dd
13:46 dbs oh, need to restart for the change to actually apply - one second
13:48 dbs nope. Still yyyy-mm-dd despite preferred language == English (United States)
13:48 berick hm, wonder if it gets it from the OS
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13:48 dbs I'm pretty sure it does. if you look at about:config for locale, intl.locale.matchOS defaults to "True"
13:49 dbs I don't think there's any user-friendly knob to twiddle that
13:51 dbs of course, there might be diffs between how firefox on Linux vs. windows vs mac work
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13:55 berick dbs: do you think there needs to be a user-friendly way to tweak that?  IOW, if someone needs to use a different locale, is it reasonble to assume their OS would be set to match their desired locale?
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13:59 Dyrcona My point about using "browser locale" is to use what the user expects/is used to with their browser.
14:01 Dyrcona My assumption is that the browser gets it right based on whatever settings.
14:08 dbs system locale is often confusing because we have people with en-US keyboard layouts, but there are also Canadian mutilingual and Canadian French keyboards
14:09 dbs so you have people who will set their system up as en-US just to match the keyboard layout
14:10 dbs but they really want yyyy-mm-dd, or distances in kilometres
14:12 berick dbs: so do you think <input type='date'/> would be too inflexible?
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14:31 Dyrcona dbs berick: My response is it shouldn't be our problem if someone can't use proper environment settings.
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14:36 berick Dyrcona: that's been my take going into this too, but if this negatively impacts most of our non-en-US users, it gets a lot harder to make the case for moving to native date widgets.
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15:21 jeffdavis I wonder what the expected/desired behavior would be for multilingual sites that use the locale picker, e.g. would you expect/want date formats to change when switching between supported locales in EG
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15:24 jeff Language and locale shouldn't be tied together as often as they are.
15:24 jeff (but in certain OS/browser combos they are tied quite closely.)
15:31 jonadab Date formats with two-digit years and/or numeric months really have no place being used in a UI, in a world where the internet is in every country.  They just cause too many misunderstandings.
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15:36 Dyrcona It's almost 2020. This should be a solved problem.
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16:22 Bmagic has anyone else struggled with rental fees being assessed outside of the owning lib?
16:22 Bmagic Basically, we have a request to knock that off
16:23 Bmagic maybe this bug is getting to the crux of it? bug 1205426
16:23 Dyrcona Well, in most consortia, I don't think rental items travel, or at least that seems to be an assumption made of rental items.
16:23 pinesol Launchpad bug 1205426 in Evergreen "make org unit settings for exempting patron groups from deposits and rental fees visible" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1205426
16:23 jeff yeah, our rentals were non-holdable.
16:24 jeff and thus mostly-implicitly didn't transit or get checked out elsewhere.
16:24 * Dyrcona has to go.
16:27 jeff but yes, if a given circ lib wants to never charge rental fees for any items, you should be able to set circ.rental.exempt_groups for that lib to contain the ID of the top of the permission.grp_tree tree.
16:28 Bmagic jeff: that's what I was thinking
16:29 Bmagic the story that I was given is patrons are renewing their items at home and the items are borrowed items that have a rental fee cataloged onto them. Which, when renewed online, assesses the fee and, due to a group penalty, blocks the account
16:29 jeff anything more complex, like charging a different rental fee, or charging a rental fee only for certain items would probably require some dev work to move rental fees away from the copy and closer to the circ policy.
16:31 Bmagic that's what I was thinking too :)
16:31 Bmagic just making sure I wasn't missing anything or misunderstanding the system
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16:37 jeffdavis mmorgan++ # triaging/targeting all those bugs
16:39 mmorgan Thought I would do something useful while waiting for something to load :)
16:40 mmorgan Also found a few I want to test!
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19:46 Dyrcona Bmagic: You might want something like the solution to bug 1170794 for rental items. Perhaps an ou setting to not change rental fees again on renewal?
19:47 pinesol Launchpad bug 1170794 in Evergreen "Deposit charged again on renewal of deposit item" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170794
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23:02 pinesol News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>

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