| Time |
Nick |
Message |
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| 11:01 |
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| 11:02 |
pinesol |
News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live> |
| 11:34 |
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| 11:50 |
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| 11:58 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Jane Sandberg] LP1834662: Add date-related components to Angular client. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=d95ab87> |
| 11:58 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834662 Allow date format defaults to persist. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=5f66a61> |
| 11:58 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Jane Sandberg] LP1834662: Various fixes to the datetime select - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=0dc5645> |
| 11:58 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Jane Sandberg] LP1834662: Fix incorrect locale fallback - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=fe0c1ee> |
| 11:58 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834662 Minor lingering lint repair - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=9f4e3b5> |
| 12:00 |
berick |
dbs: re: web staff date formats, what locale are your browsers set to? |
| 12:03 |
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| 12:11 |
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| 12:12 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834665 Import marcrecord.js to Angular - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=61dd202> |
| 12:12 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834665 Angular catalog MARC flat text editor - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=5535f92> |
| 12:12 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834665 Flat text editor uses '$' delimiter - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=a538206> |
| 12:12 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834665 MARC editor success/fail toasts - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=3121c07> |
| 12:12 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP1834665 Bib summary formats and jacket - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=731ce74> |
| 12:19 |
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| 12:19 |
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| 12:29 |
Dyrcona |
gotta love IRC "conversations" that span multiple days. |
| 12:30 |
Bmagic |
the nature of the beast |
| 12:30 |
Dyrcona |
berick: I think you're making a mistake waiting for date widgets that let you set the date format programmatically. I don't think it is going to happen. |
| 12:34 |
berick |
Dyrcona: i don't either, which is why I also added "or the issue is otherwise resolved" |
| 12:34 |
berick |
meaning, sites are able to set the correct locales on their browsers |
| 12:35 |
Dyrcona |
Well, we probably should use the browser's locale anyway. |
| 12:36 |
Dyrcona |
"Sites" don't need to set the locale. Users do. |
| 12:36 |
berick |
apparently some users don't have that access |
| 12:36 |
Dyrcona |
Well, naturally. Some system administrators/site policies forbid it. |
| 12:36 |
Dyrcona |
That should not be our "problem." |
| 12:36 |
berick |
hence "sites" |
| 12:37 |
berick |
well, then please add your thoughts to that email thread |
| 12:37 |
berick |
or the bug |
| 12:37 |
* Dyrcona |
was just looking through the webkit bug tracker and apparently the UI for input date and time is broken... |
| 12:38 |
Dyrcona |
I'm not sure if that affects only Safari or all Webkit-based browsers. Otherwise, I'd recommend we do this in the OPAC, too. |
| 12:42 |
* Dyrcona |
considers building a webkit browser other than phantomjs to test it. |
| 12:50 |
Dyrcona |
IDK. I hope my comment is coherent enough. |
| 12:54 |
Dyrcona |
This is a case of Safari on iOS does something that Safari on Mac OS doesn't. It's usually the other way 'round. |
| 13:37 |
dbs |
berick: browser language preference (set in Firefox preferences) is "English (Canadian)", but locale (via navigator.languages) shows up as en-US. |
| 13:37 |
dbs |
That even though my system locale is also set to en-CA. |
| 13:38 |
dbs |
I don't think "set correct locale on your browser" is a real answer anymore |
| 13:39 |
dbs |
fwiw, Intl.NumberFormat().resolvedOptions().locale returns 'en-CA' in my browser console |
| 13:39 |
jeffdavis |
None of this would be a problem if we'd all just switch to Swatch time. |
| 13:40 |
berick |
dbs: what happens if you put a <input type="date" /> on page in your browser? |
| 13:43 |
berick |
jeffdavis: crazy, this is the first I'm hearing of Swatch time |
| 13:43 |
jeffdavis |
well, there may be a reason for that ... :) |
| 13:44 |
dbs |
berick: the one true date format (yyyy - mm - dd) appears |
| 13:44 |
berick |
dbs: great, that's what I would hope for |
| 13:44 |
berick |
so it is honoring the browser locale/language |
| 13:46 |
dbs |
I just changed my browser language preferecne to English (United States) and added <input type="date"> to a page again and it again shows yyyy-mm-dd |
| 13:46 |
dbs |
oh, need to restart for the change to actually apply - one second |
| 13:48 |
dbs |
nope. Still yyyy-mm-dd despite preferred language == English (United States) |
| 13:48 |
berick |
hm, wonder if it gets it from the OS |
| 13:48 |
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| 13:48 |
dbs |
I'm pretty sure it does. if you look at about:config for locale, intl.locale.matchOS defaults to "True" |
| 13:49 |
dbs |
I don't think there's any user-friendly knob to twiddle that |
| 13:51 |
dbs |
of course, there might be diffs between how firefox on Linux vs. windows vs mac work |
| 13:52 |
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| 13:55 |
berick |
dbs: do you think there needs to be a user-friendly way to tweak that? IOW, if someone needs to use a different locale, is it reasonble to assume their OS would be set to match their desired locale? |
| 13:58 |
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| 13:59 |
Dyrcona |
My point about using "browser locale" is to use what the user expects/is used to with their browser. |
| 14:01 |
Dyrcona |
My assumption is that the browser gets it right based on whatever settings. |
| 14:08 |
dbs |
system locale is often confusing because we have people with en-US keyboard layouts, but there are also Canadian mutilingual and Canadian French keyboards |
| 14:09 |
dbs |
so you have people who will set their system up as en-US just to match the keyboard layout |
| 14:10 |
dbs |
but they really want yyyy-mm-dd, or distances in kilometres |
| 14:12 |
berick |
dbs: so do you think <input type='date'/> would be too inflexible? |
| 14:12 |
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| 14:31 |
Dyrcona |
dbs berick: My response is it shouldn't be our problem if someone can't use proper environment settings. |
| 14:32 |
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| 14:36 |
berick |
Dyrcona: that's been my take going into this too, but if this negatively impacts most of our non-en-US users, it gets a lot harder to make the case for moving to native date widgets. |
| 14:52 |
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| 15:21 |
jeffdavis |
I wonder what the expected/desired behavior would be for multilingual sites that use the locale picker, e.g. would you expect/want date formats to change when switching between supported locales in EG |
| 15:24 |
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| 15:24 |
jeff |
Language and locale shouldn't be tied together as often as they are. |
| 15:24 |
jeff |
(but in certain OS/browser combos they are tied quite closely.) |
| 15:31 |
jonadab |
Date formats with two-digit years and/or numeric months really have no place being used in a UI, in a world where the internet is in every country. They just cause too many misunderstandings. |
| 15:32 |
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| 15:36 |
Dyrcona |
It's almost 2020. This should be a solved problem. |
| 16:19 |
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| 16:22 |
Bmagic |
has anyone else struggled with rental fees being assessed outside of the owning lib? |
| 16:22 |
Bmagic |
Basically, we have a request to knock that off |
| 16:23 |
Bmagic |
maybe this bug is getting to the crux of it? bug 1205426 |
| 16:23 |
Dyrcona |
Well, in most consortia, I don't think rental items travel, or at least that seems to be an assumption made of rental items. |
| 16:23 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 1205426 in Evergreen "make org unit settings for exempting patron groups from deposits and rental fees visible" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1205426 |
| 16:23 |
jeff |
yeah, our rentals were non-holdable. |
| 16:24 |
jeff |
and thus mostly-implicitly didn't transit or get checked out elsewhere. |
| 16:24 |
* Dyrcona |
has to go. |
| 16:27 |
jeff |
but yes, if a given circ lib wants to never charge rental fees for any items, you should be able to set circ.rental.exempt_groups for that lib to contain the ID of the top of the permission.grp_tree tree. |
| 16:28 |
Bmagic |
jeff: that's what I was thinking |
| 16:29 |
Bmagic |
the story that I was given is patrons are renewing their items at home and the items are borrowed items that have a rental fee cataloged onto them. Which, when renewed online, assesses the fee and, due to a group penalty, blocks the account |
| 16:29 |
jeff |
anything more complex, like charging a different rental fee, or charging a rental fee only for certain items would probably require some dev work to move rental fees away from the copy and closer to the circ policy. |
| 16:31 |
Bmagic |
that's what I was thinking too :) |
| 16:31 |
Bmagic |
just making sure I wasn't missing anything or misunderstanding the system |
| 16:35 |
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| 16:37 |
jeffdavis |
mmorgan++ # triaging/targeting all those bugs |
| 16:39 |
mmorgan |
Thought I would do something useful while waiting for something to load :) |
| 16:40 |
mmorgan |
Also found a few I want to test! |
| 17:09 |
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| 19:46 |
Dyrcona |
Bmagic: You might want something like the solution to bug 1170794 for rental items. Perhaps an ou setting to not change rental fees again on renewal? |
| 19:47 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 1170794 in Evergreen "Deposit charged again on renewal of deposit item" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170794 |
| 21:05 |
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| 23:02 |
pinesol |
News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live> |
