Evergreen ILS Website

IRC log for #evergreen, 2017-05-27

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Time Nick Message
04:31 pinesol_green News from qatests: Test Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
09:48 littlet joined #evergreen
13:53 FreddyEnrique joined #evergreen
13:54 FreddyEnrique Hi everyone
13:54 FreddyEnrique Pretty sure you dont remeber me, but I contacted you yesterday
13:55 FreddyEnrique I mentioned that concerning the instalation process, theres a step which I cant figure it out how to do it
13:56 FreddyEnrique I cant find the cd /openils/var/web/xul
13:56 FreddyEnrique It just appear cd /openils/var
13:56 jonadab Which instructions are you following?
13:57 FreddyEnrique Let see....Im following the 2.12 instruction
13:57 FreddyEnrique im starting form the begining
13:58 FreddyEnrique with the OpenSRF Installation
13:59 FreddyEnrique Im already in step 11: Update the OpenSRF configuration files
14:00 FreddyEnrique by chance I checked the openils dir... and the web dir doest appear in var
14:00 FreddyEnrique Is that a bad sign?
14:01 jonadab Hmm, I'm trying to find your place.
14:01 jonadab In the 2.12.0 instructions, step 11 is 11. Configure action triggers for the Evergreen application
14:02 jonadab IN the OpenSRF 2.5.0 instructions, step 11 is 11. Create the OpenSRF Jabber users
14:02 jonadab So I'm not clear on exactly where you actually are.
14:02 FreddyEnrique im in : Update the OpenSRF configuration files
14:03 jonadab Ok.
14:03 FreddyEnrique I just stopped there, beacuse I want to make sure everything is going right
14:03 jonadab Ok, so, you're still installing OpenSRF, right?
14:03 FreddyEnrique Yes
14:04 jonadab I wouldn't expect the web/xul stuff to exist yet at that point, using the standard installation order.
14:04 FreddyEnrique And... I just checked the openils dir... and the www dir doest appear
14:04 jonadab That stuff's part of OpenILS itself, not part of OpenSRF, if I understand correctly.
14:04 FreddyEnrique !!
14:04 FreddyEnrique oh..so I still edd to continue
14:04 FreddyEnrique need*
14:04 jonadab OpenSRF is just a communications layer that different Evergreen processes use to talk to each other.
14:05 jonadab It's like an interprocess communications mechanism that provides network transparency, I believe.
14:05 jonadab It's built on jabber.
14:06 jonadab So yeah, I think you can continue to proceed for now.
14:06 FreddyEnrique Ok, I'm proceeding
14:06 jonadab If you can get to the point where the srfsh math test passes (you send an add request and get back the answer), then OpenSRF is installed.
14:06 jonadab At that point you can go on to installing OpenILS itself.
14:07 jonadab and/or other dependencies like Postgres, depending what order you're doing things in.
16:10 rlefaive joined #evergreen
16:31 pinesol_green News from qatests: Test Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
18:30 FreddyEnrique guys
18:30 FreddyEnrique I was able to do the Testing the default OpenSRF services
18:30 FreddyEnrique I suppose evething is alright
18:31 FreddyEnrique still....the web dir doesnt appear...
18:32 FreddyEnrique Or does it mean I hace to continue the evergreen installation?
18:34 FreddyEnrique BTW, im totally skipping the optional parts
19:28 jonadab Continue with the Evergreen installation.
19:28 jonadab I believe the web dir stuff comes from OpenILS itself, _not_ from OpenSRF.
19:32 FreddyEnrique btw
19:32 FreddyEnrique the apache installation is before of after the the opensrf installation?
19:41 jonadab Either, I think.
19:41 jonadab But probably best install Apache before OpenILS.
19:42 jonadab Although, the prerequisites step probably does automatically, come to think.
19:42 jonadab Not sure if the prerequisites also picks up Postgres.
19:42 jonadab It might.
19:46 jonadab If you follow the instructions in the order in which they're written, it should all work.  That isn't the only possible order or even necessarily the fastest order, but it's an order that works.
19:47 jonadab Some of the guys at the conference were saying that they like to change the order in some ways, e.g., I remember they said they create the opensrf user first and download everything _as_ that user, so then they don't have to recursively chown it all, which saves maybe a minute or so.
19:48 jonadab That sort of optimization is probably more relevant if you're installing a lot of times (e.g., for testing changes) and are familiar with the process and can move through the steps quickly.
19:49 jonadab BTW, this channel tends to be pretty dead on the weekends; I think a lot of the Evergreen folks don't irc at home.
19:49 jonadab Which is weird to me, I have IRC up _more_ of the time at home than at work, I think.
19:49 jonadab But that may be partly because it was the NetHack community that pulled me into IRC, and then I found #evergreen later.
19:53 FreddyEnrique I see.... i really appreciate your help, even though its family time
19:53 FreddyEnrique but since I'm still struggling in the university
19:53 jonadab Not a problem for me.
19:53 jonadab Like I said, I'm _usually_ on IRC at home (except when asleep).
19:54 FreddyEnrique jajaja
19:54 FreddyEnrique forgive...what is.... IRC?
19:54 jonadab Internet Relay Chat?
19:54 jonadab The technology we are currently using to communicate.
19:54 FreddyEnrique got it
19:54 jonadab Oh, I see, you're using the web interface.
19:55 jonadab I keep irssi running all the time in a screen session.
19:55 FreddyEnrique yep..im using chrome
19:56 jonadab That way even when I go afk and detach from my session, people can still nickping me, and I get the hilights when I reconnect.
19:57 jonadab And backscroll, although I don't usually read the backscroll in busy channels like #nethack and #evergreen.
19:59 FreddyEnrique You know...just yesterday was my first time using this IRC. I find it more convenient than the general emails
19:59 FreddyEnrique For Koha, I usually used that method
20:01 jonadab email is convenient for situations where you want to be able to think for a while about each reply.
20:02 jonadab (That is, think for a while while writing each reply.)
20:02 jonadab But IRC tends to be better for starting a conversation and getting a bunch of answers quickly.
20:03 jonadab Although the threading aspect of email can be good if the answers are going to be long.
20:03 jonadab It just depends what you're doing, I guess.
20:04 jonadab If you want the worst of both worlds, there's always reddit or, heaven help you, Discord.
20:04 FreddyEnrique a more elaborate question and answer
20:05 FreddyEnrique Now that you mention it... kid of hard to keep track of my questions
20:05 FreddyEnrique kind*
20:05 jonadab Yeah, I don't know if the web interface does logging.
20:05 jonadab A real IRC client would, of course.
20:06 jonadab Although #evergreen is publicly logged.
20:06 FreddyEnrique wait....a real IRC doest need a interface?
20:07 jonadab Real IRC clients have interfaces, of course, but they're not built into a website.  They're actual applications.
20:07 jonadab weechat is probably the most highly recommended.
20:08 jonadab I use irssi mostly because I was already using it before I found out about weechat.
20:08 jonadab I think weechat is newer.
20:08 FreddyEnrique you are right...it is an application
20:09 jonadab IRC has been around a long time, so there are dozens of IRC clients.
20:09 FreddyEnrique but...why this method and not a group in facebook or those commonly used social platforms?
20:09 jonadab hexchat, chatzilla, xchat, mIRC, I don't even know what they all are.
20:10 jonadab FreddyEnrique: Facebook is completely inappropriate for several reasons.
20:10 FreddyEnrique forgive if im not really into that, at least thats how many people in my country does things
20:10 jonadab 1. It's an inappropriate place to put anything that needs to be reliably public.
20:10 FreddyEnrique I see
20:10 jonadab 2. It's equally inappropriate for anything that needs to be private.
20:11 jonadab 3. It's not _intended_ for this sort of thing, and it shows.
20:11 jonadab There's another answer to "why IRC":  https://xkcd.com/1782/
20:13 jonadab IRC has been around for a very long time (it's older than the web) and is firmly entrenched in technical circles, especially among open-source developers.
20:13 jonadab Most serious open-source projects have a channel on Freenode.
20:14 jonadab The answer to "why IRC" is "because that's what everyone uses, except for the people who can't decide and keep switching communications platforms every five years."
20:15 FreddyEnrique Its older than Internet, commonly used among technical circles....
20:15 jonadab No, I didn't say older than the internet.  I said older than the web.
20:15 FreddyEnrique do you recommend to install the application?
20:15 jonadab If you're going to be sticking around long-term, then yes.
20:16 jonadab If you're only here for a couple of days to do this one install, then maybe not.
20:16 FreddyEnrique Actually, I'm really looking foward getting to know many Open Source Library software
20:16 FreddyEnrique Like....
20:16 FreddyEnrique Dspace
20:16 FreddyEnrique Moodle
20:16 FreddyEnrique OJS
20:17 jonadab (The web dates to 1992, IRC to 1988; some parts of the internet, such as usenet and email, are older still.)
20:17 FreddyEnrique My god.....
20:17 jonadab I didn't get on the internet until 1994.
20:18 jonadab (Yeah, I know, I'm old.)
20:18 FreddyEnrique I think the first place that got internet in Peru is Miraflores...quite late actually
20:19 jonadab Ah.
20:19 jonadab Yeah, I'd expect it to have arrived down there somewhat later.
20:19 FreddyEnrique jajaja, but you are really experienced
20:19 jonadab Maybe '96 or so?  Guessing.
20:20 FreddyEnrique dont think so...mabe in universities. Like UNI for example
20:20 jonadab I'm in the States, and almost all colleges up here had internet by 1995.
20:20 jonadab Major universities had it in the seventies.
20:20 FreddyEnrique damn
20:20 jonadab After a fashion.  I mean, it wasn't the same as now.  At all.
20:21 FreddyEnrique That explains a lot why many libraries still stick to winisis
20:21 FreddyEnrique have you heard of that software?
20:21 jonadab I haven't.
20:22 FreddyEnrique it allowed librarians to catalog books and other materials
20:22 jonadab But I come from the IT side, not from the library side.  I mean, I work at a library, but my schooling wasn't library-related at all.
20:23 jonadab I didn't get the job at the library until 2000.
20:23 FreddyEnrique I'm from the library side and really got and interest in those software that helps libraries automate its processes
20:24 jonadab So I don't know all the library stuff.  I mean, I know what MARC is, but if you start throwing around specific tag numbers, my eyes will glaze over _fast_.
20:24 FreddyEnrique Considering your background then, you are an expert when it comes to tech
20:24 FreddyEnrique jajajajajaja
20:24 jonadab Eh, that's relative.
20:24 FreddyEnrique that was a good one....
20:28 FreddyEnrique Then... Let me ask you a question... Why Evergreen?
20:29 FreddyEnrique I read the American Library Magazine and there is a growing number of libraries changing to this ILS
20:29 FreddyEnrique That really got my interest
20:29 FreddyEnrique I'd like to hear your toughts about this
20:30 jonadab Speaking only for myself:  I prefer open-source solutions for several reasons.
20:30 jonadab 1. It's generally a lot easier to figure out what's going on, troubleshoot problems, etc.
20:31 jonadab When you have a problem with a proprietary black box, you're helpless to do anything but call the vendor and describe the symptoms, and you don't necessarily know even where to look for clues.
20:31 jonadab I hate that.
20:31 jonadab 2. The community support tends to be a lot better, especially if you're small.
20:32 jonadab 3. Features that a lot of users want are WAY more likely to get implemented in the open-source world.
20:33 jonadab Speaking about ILS software in particular, we've used two different proprietary solutions in Galion.
20:33 bshum Fwiw, there is a link in the topic for this channel that points to the public logs for the chat:  http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/evergreen
20:33 jonadab The first was reliable, but its UI left a lot to be desired.
20:33 FreddyEnrique waaaa.....what are those calendars??!!!
20:34 jonadab The second has been a nightmare.
20:34 FreddyEnrique uhm...
20:34 jonadab FreddyEnrique: If you click on a date, it shows you the log of this channel from then.
20:35 FreddyEnrique You used 2 propietary ILS
20:35 jonadab Yes, we migrated in 2005.
20:35 FreddyEnrique I asummed it didnt fullfill the expectatons
20:35 FreddyEnrique sorry, expectations*
20:35 jonadab The first one was really showing its age, and the vendor was encouraging everyone to move to their newer product.
20:36 jonadab The second one has been a large disappointment.
20:36 FreddyEnrique Oh.... Its wasnt Aleph right?
20:36 jonadab No.
20:36 FreddyEnrique uff
20:36 jonadab Galaxy and Polaris, respectively.
20:36 FreddyEnrique !!!
20:36 FreddyEnrique Polaris???? really??
20:36 jonadab That's what we moved to in 2005.
20:37 jonadab We actually had three systems demoed (Polaris, Library.Solution, Horizon).
20:38 jonadab The staff all liked Library.Solution best of the three, by a wide margin; but we ended up going with Polaris because it was 2005 and there were budget cuts of unknown severity anticipated, and the Polaris quote, after the second round of negotiations, was about $10 thousand cheaper than the TLC quote.
20:38 jonadab (The Dynix quote was even higher; we did not seriously consider Horizon.)
20:39 jonadab The ILS software field was pretty broad and active around then.  There were libraries in our area on everything from DRA to Millennium.
20:40 FreddyEnrique Im been told about the high costs of propietary ILS... really out of reach from many libraries here....
20:41 FreddyEnrique BTW, what type of library are you working in? Public? Academic?
20:41 jonadab Public.
20:41 jonadab We're an Association library, but our official service area is the city of Galion.  Which has a population of about ten and a half thousand people.
20:41 FreddyEnrique American Libraries really take it seriosly....
20:42 jonadab Americans expect a lot out of their libraries.
20:43 jonadab We have to always have all the latest movies and popular books (in regular, large print, audio, ...), etc.
20:43 jonadab And lots of internet computers so nobody ever has to wait, and so on.
20:44 FreddyEnrique You know... I really see that kind of expectation really inspirational
20:45 FreddyEnrique people there expecting a lot from their libraries...  here is a far cry from yours
20:46 FreddyEnrique Some people in my field are trying to make a change though
20:50 jonadab Perhaps Americans are also a bit spoiled.
20:50 jonadab THough, of all the things our government spends tax money on, libraries are a long, long way from being the most wasteful.
20:50 jonadab Good libraries are useful to almost everyone.
20:55 FreddyEnrique Uhmm...how are things going about the American libraries' budget cuts? I read that the current goverment is planning to do that. And that the Library community is not by any chance allow that
20:55 jonadab That varies from state to state.
20:56 jonadab Currently, the Ohio state government is in the process of deciding that for Ohio libraries (and a number of other budget categories).
20:56 jonadab OLC is of course engaged in political maneouvers in an attempt to convince them not to cut the PLF at all.
20:57 jonadab I have no idea what may or may not be going on in other states.
20:58 jonadab But I don't imagine it would change our ILS plans either way at this point, because what we're planning is to move to Evergreen, and that will actually save us money, though that's not the main reason we want to do it.
20:59 jonadab We might go in with a consortium, for Evergreen purposes.  That remains to be decided.
20:59 jonadab (There's one consortium in particular that our director is interested in and considering.)
21:02 FreddyEnrique Im trying to get used to this term... Consortium. Basically, it is a group of libraries right? That allows libraries to share resources and have a sigle OPAC. Am I right?
21:11 FreddyEnrique Oh my god... I still cant get to the cd /openils/var/web/xul
21:15 bshum FreddyEnrique: Maybe we can help. What have you been trying so far?  Do you have a link to the instructions you're following?
21:16 FreddyEnrique Ok. First. Im using Ubuntu 14.04 server edtion
21:17 bshum The 64-bit version I hope, but continue :)
21:17 FreddyEnrique I didnt install any additional stuff, just the SSH
21:17 FreddyEnrique yep, 64 bit in a virtual box
21:18 FreddyEnrique First, the page tells me I need to install the openSRF
21:18 FreddyEnrique Im  following the manual for the version 2_5
21:18 bshum Yep, sounds right.
21:19 FreddyEnrique here are the commands Ive been using
21:19 FreddyEnrique wget https://evergreen-ils.org/do​wnloads/opensrf-2.5.0.tar.gz
21:19 FreddyEnrique tar -xvf opensrf-2.5.0.tar.gz
21:19 FreddyEnrique cd opensrf-2.5.0/
21:19 FreddyEnrique Then...as a Root
21:19 FreddyEnrique apt-get install make
21:19 bshum Yep
21:19 FreddyEnrique make -f src/extras/Makefile.install ubuntu-trusty
21:20 bshum Right, and that should install all the pre-reqs for opensrf
21:20 FreddyEnrique As an user...
21:20 bshum Then you do the configure / make; then make install
21:20 FreddyEnrique sudo ./configure --prefix=/openils --sysconfdir=/openils/conf
21:20 bshum Well make install as root, yep
21:21 FreddyEnrique then make
21:21 FreddyEnrique make install
21:21 FreddyEnrique as a root
21:21 FreddyEnrique useradd -m -s /bin/bash opensrf
21:21 FreddyEnrique echo "export PATH=\$PATH:/openils/bin" >> /home/opensrf/.bashrc
21:21 FreddyEnrique passwd opensrf
21:21 FreddyEnrique chown -R opensrf:opensrf /openils
21:22 FreddyEnrique nano /etc/hosts
21:22 FreddyEnrique after editing that file
21:22 bshum So were you able to get to the end of the OpenSRF instructions where you do the math test?
21:22 bshum And that was successful?
21:22 FreddyEnrique well...actually yes
21:23 bshum Okay
21:23 FreddyEnrique the errors comes when I`m in the server installation
21:23 bshum So when you went back to the Evergreen 2.12.0 steps then
21:23 bshum Err, 2.12.2 I guess
21:23 FreddyEnrique yes, the problems star
21:23 bshum You'd first download and untar the Evergreen-ILS-2.12.2.tar.gz file first
21:24 FreddyEnrique yes, then the tar xvf command
21:24 FreddyEnrique I  change to that directory
21:24 bshum So like, wget https://evergreen-ils.org/downlo​ads/Evergreen-ILS-2.12.2a.tar.gz ; then tar xzv Evergreen-ILS-2.12.2a.tar.gz ; cd Evergreen-ILS-2.12.2a
21:24 bshum Okay
21:25 FreddyEnrique yes!
21:25 bshum And then inside there, you have to re-run the Make install for that to get all the next pre-reqs for Evergreen
21:25 * bshum hasn't installed from tarballs in awhile
21:25 FreddyEnrique with... make -f Open-ILS/src/extras/Makefile.install ubuntu-trusty command?
21:25 * bshum spins up a new VM
21:25 bshum Right
21:26 FreddyEnrique thats where the first error pops up
21:26 bshum Okay
21:26 FreddyEnrique just one error
21:26 bshum What's that error say?
21:27 FreddyEnrique it is in spanish... I hope you get it
21:27 FreddyEnrique make[1]: se sale del directorio «/home/freddy/Evergreen-ILS-2.12.2»
21:29 FreddyEnrique then...when I put PATH=/openils/bin:$PATH ./configure --prefix=/openils --sysconfdir=/openils/conf make
21:29 FreddyEnrique this appears make[3]: *** [oils_cstore.la] Error 1
21:29 FreddyEnrique make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
21:29 bshum Hmm, well that's not good.
21:29 FreddyEnrique make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
21:30 bshum And seems to explain why nothing seems to be getting installed for Evergreen
21:31 FreddyEnrique maybe is the instructions?
21:31 bshum You ran make -f Open-ILS/src/extras/Makefile.install ubuntu-trusty command as root right?
21:31 bshum While inside the Evergreen-ILS-2.12.2 directory?
21:31 bshum In what seems to be your home folder
21:32 bshum I don't think it's the instructions; they're pretty well-tested these days.
21:32 FreddyEnrique I wish I could uppload a screenshot to describe it. But yeah.
21:33 FreddyEnrique I change to root
21:33 bshum I find https://snag.gy/ pretty useful for sharing screenshots
21:33 bshum But okay
21:33 FreddyEnrique can I uppload it here?
21:33 FreddyEnrique how can I show you my screenshot?
21:35 bshum The channel itself doesn't have an easy way of sharing screenshots, but you can upload your screenshot to a third-party (like the site I just linked to) and then grab the URL from their hosting of your picture and share it back to the channel
21:35 FreddyEnrique let see
21:42 FreddyEnrique https://snag.gy/F3Baf7.jpg
21:43 FreddyEnrique First time using this application, sorry for the delay
21:44 bshum No worries, that does seem pretty explanatory to me.
21:44 bshum The configure / make is trying to find that ldbdpgsql and it can't because it's not getting installed right as part of the first make -f to install the pre-reqs
21:44 bshum Or at least, that's what it looks like
21:46 FreddyEnrique you mean... form the opensrf part?
21:46 bshum No, from the Evergreen part
21:46 FreddyEnrique Then...I just redo that step?
21:52 bshum Hey FreddyEnrique, along the top of the IRC chat, you should see different windows of chat
21:52 bshum You're going to see one from me, I'm going to ask you to try out some screenshare software
21:52 FreddyEnrique sure, thanks
22:10 bshum So, for the logs, it looks like the problem appears to be this:  cannot find -ldbdpgsql  during the "make" step
22:11 bshum There was a complaint also where somewhere during the make install, it said to run "aptitude remove libdbi0" ; not quite sure what that's about yet..
22:43 bshum jonadab++ # helping and answering questions

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