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IRC log for #evergreen, 2017-04-13

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Time Nick Message
04:31 pinesol_green News from qatests: Test Failure <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
06:40 rlefaive joined #evergreen
06:51 dbs_breaker_of_t joined #evergreen
06:52 dbs_breaker_of_t Okay, now to find out why that path wasn't happy.
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08:03 dbs d'oh. BINDIR, not TARBIN, for the nodejs path
08:04 dbs would be nice if the buildbot would trigger new livetest runs...
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09:08 remingtron sandbergja: FYI, I posted notes from the conference DIG meeting
09:08 remingtron https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id​=evergreen-docs:dig_meeting_20170407_notes
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09:42 kmlussier dbs: Sometimes phasefx will do an unscheduled livetest run if a fix to the tests is added.
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10:00 jeff just as i was about to remark on how useful irc logs can be, i find a case where i xkcd 979'd myself.
10:00 jeff "oh hey, there's the error."
10:00 jeff then, nothing.
10:00 jeff technically not quite the same, but a variant.
10:03 Dyrcona heh.
10:04 Dyrcona I like the ones where the first post is the question and the second, posted weeks or months later is simply, "Fixed it."
10:04 Dyrcona And, just /how/ did you fix it, hmm?
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10:05 Dyrcona But usually, when that happens to me, I'm the one who posted the question in the first place. :)
10:06 Dyrcona jeff: What's the error?
10:07 jeff Dyrcona: exactly!
10:08 Dyrcona :)
10:08 Dyrcona And, query output in an upgrade script.... Yuck!
10:09 Dyrcona It was waiting for me to type q before going on to the rest of the script.
10:10 * Dyrcona looks up how to disable the pager in psql.
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10:12 jeff \pset pager off
10:12 Dyrcona Yeah.
10:13 jeff or --pset=pager=off (weird syntax there)
10:14 JBoyer .psqlrc , turn it off for reals.
10:15 Dyrcona -P pager=off works. :)
10:15 Dyrcona Yeap and yeap.
10:17 Dyrcona And the upgrade script is finished!
10:18 * Dyrcona restart postgres to pick up the configuration changes that should have been done before running the script.
10:19 Dyrcona Ah, 9.5 dropped the checkpoint_segments option.
10:21 Dyrcona max_wal_size
10:22 Dyrcona 3072MB seems a bit large.
10:23 Dyrcona Based on the formula in the release notes: max_wal_size = (3 * checkpoint_segments) * 16MB
10:31 * Dyrcona thought he had a script on the training server, but apparently not.
10:32 Dyrcona Heh. It is there. Just named differently than I thought.
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10:58 jeff looks like Codey Kolasinski from C/W MARS presented last year on the MARC stream importer. Anyone happen to have a link to that presentation, or should I try contacting Codey?
10:58 Dyrcona jeff: Codey no longer works for C/W MARS.
10:59 Dyrcona I could probably get his email address for you, though.
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11:00 jeff Dyrcona: I have a hotmail address from his web site, but if you have something else that's likely to be more recent, great!
11:02 kmlussier I thought he also had a blog post on MARC stream importer, but I can't find it.
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11:04 kmlussier Oh, I have a PDF of the blog post apparently. I had sent it along to yboston for possible incorporation in the documentation. Do you want me to forward it to you jeff?
11:04 jeff kmlussier: please and thank you!
11:04 * kmlussier isn't quite sure why she has a PDF of a blog post rather than a link to a blog post.
11:04 JBoyer kmlussier should print it and fax it to jeff.
11:04 JBoyer ;)
11:05 * kmlussier chuckles
11:05 kmlussier jeff: Check you Inbox
11:07 Dyrcona jeff: I don't have an email address for him. I'd have to ask around.
11:07 Dyrcona The hotmail address is probably still good.
11:07 jeff Dyrcona: I'll go with that. Thanks for checking!
11:08 jeff kmlussier: well, for whatever reason that blog post doesn't appear to be available anymore -- just one on receipt templates.
11:13 csharp while researching libraries' SPF setups, we found several that use yahoo and hotmail addresses for org emails
11:14 csharp Pro Tip: You can't add gapines.org's IP addresses to yahoo or microsoft's SPF entries
11:15 jonadab This sort of thing is really what the Reply-To field is for.
11:15 dbs also, people seeing @yahoo / @hotmail addresses are unlikely to believe that it is actually coming from a library :)
11:15 csharp yeah, that :-)
11:16 csharp gapines.ru
11:16 bshum .ninja
11:16 jonadab bshum: I know a guy who has dank.ninja
11:17 jonadab (know online, not IRL)
11:17 jeff emailed Codey.
11:17 * csharp registers gapines.biz, drops mic, walks away
11:17 Dyrcona .biz is for posers. :)
11:19 JBoyer srs.biz
11:19 jeff fun one with most of the recently added gTLDs: they're far more volatile in terms of price than the existing gTLDs.
11:20 Dyrcona Alas, poor Alternic....
11:23 jeff and mostly by "volatile", i mean in the "big spikes upward" direction.
11:24 berick our prices go up hill both ways!
11:25 Dyrcona :)
11:31 jeff "why did we raise our prices from $20/yr to $300/yr? well, you see... we're trying to get 'money we can use to try to market the strings to prosperity'"
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11:40 Dyrcona "Oh, so you're just greedy, then?"
11:58 * Dyrcona wishes he still had the bash script from the last time that he used eg_staged_bib_overlay.
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12:26 dbs berick++ # ansible
12:26 kmlussier berick++ Bmagic++
12:27 kmlussier berick / Bmagic: Should your 'everyone should have an Evergreen server' contributions be added to https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php​?id=server_installation:semi_automated?
12:27 * JBoyer needs to make my opensrf playbooks more generic and re-share.
12:28 JBoyer and also think ahead re: /me grammar, heh.
12:28 * kmlussier also wonders if some of the current scripts on that page are out of date.
12:29 rfrasur joined #evergreen
12:29 berick kmlussier: yes, i think so.  i'll be maintaining this going forward instead of the existing ubuntu installers.
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12:45 berick huh, got a saucy spam reply to my open-ils-dev email.  don't think that's ever happened before.
12:46 DianeD joined #evergreen
12:46 gsams berick: That happened to me when I replied to Blake's awesome docker email.
12:47 berick gsams: crazy...
12:47 gsams also, berick++ #more great options
12:47 gsams I'm excited to try that process out
12:48 jeff happy to see more interest in ansible and docker. :-)
12:48 kmlussier berick: That's happened to me. I thought csharp did something to fix it, but I'm guessing it's a moving target.
12:48 jeff (mostly because of the potential in those kinds of things, not exclusively ansible and docker)
12:49 jeff (though we use ansible and docker currently)
12:50 gsams the potential is pretty astounding, it feels like these sorts of processes make Evergreen more and more accesible
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12:57 berick kmlussier: i'll update the installer wiki page
12:57 kmlussier berick++
13:11 JBoyer berick++ # just saw your email. Neat!
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13:16 JBoyer Also, a big +1 to auto enabling rsyslog and nginx. I like rsyslog much more than changing the apache user just for logging purposes, and the fewer ports the better.
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13:47 * jeff learns more things about the marc stream importer by observing packets on the wire and by looking at git history in both Evergreen and Koha
13:51 * kmlussier adds an Annual Reports page to the web site - https://evergreen-ils.org/about-us/annual-reports/
13:54 jeff kmlussier++
13:54 jeff and rhamby++ and others who may have worked on the report
13:55 rfrasur Worth it or not?  http://www.ala.org/lita/beginning-git-and-github
13:59 Bmagic kmlussier: sounds ok to me. I think I am comfortable publishing new docker containers as new EG releases come out as long as I don't have a deadline :)
14:01 rhamby rfrasur: seems steep for git to me, the meat of what you use daily in git you can learn from a few simple free tutorials
14:01 rfrasur that was kinda my thought, but figured I'd defer to those who know rather than just suppose.
14:01 rfrasur thank you
14:02 Dyrcona Yeah... I didn't see the cost before.
14:02 Dyrcona Depends on your learning style, too, I suppose.
14:03 rhamby rfrasur: I'm kind of the philosophy that I know nothing :)
14:03 rfrasur I have very little style.
14:03 * rfrasur has the kitten and skittle learning style.
14:03 * jeff raises an eyebrow
14:04 csharp rfrasur: this is super straightforward: https://rogerdudler.github.io/git-guide/
14:05 rfrasur csharp: thank you.  that looks around right.
14:05 csharp rfrasur: and I would recommend just registering for github and starting a basic project there rather than diving head first into Evergreen (if that's your eventual goal)
14:05 rfrasur I know it's all pretty basic.  I think I'm already registered.
14:06 rfrasur Nah, I don't want to dive into Evergreen.  Just act as a tour director when necessary.
14:06 rfrasur (tour guide, even)
14:07 rhamby rfrasur: it doesn't have to be software, git is useful for writing too for version control (fiction, nonfiction, etc...) so there are lots of learning opprotunties with it
14:08 Dyrcona git is very useful for configuration files, too.
14:08 rfrasur Yeah, I keep forgetting that.  Might be a good way to do some informal indoctrination with my staff.
14:09 Dyrcona heh. convert your staff handbook, manuals, etc. to plain text/asciidoc and put them in a git repository.
14:09 jeff > Timeout error, please try again in a few minutes.
14:09 rfrasur oh man.  that's a great and terrible idea.
14:09 jeff thank you, launchpad.
14:10 csharp rfrasur: also, terran has been successful running git on Windows only, so she may have some tips/war stories
14:10 rfrasur good to note.  thank you.
14:12 Dyrcona git can track binary files, too, but it's much more useful with text.
14:14 terran rfrasur: Yes, I use Git GUI - it isn't as powerful as doing it from the command line, but easier for non-Linux people
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14:16 rfrasur_ Still getting my head around what/when I want to use it.  But, now i know who to latch onto when the time comes.
14:20 ohiojoe Now I'm interested in the idea of putting local config files into a git repository..
14:21 bshum Just be careful not to push anything with passwords into a public repo (like some of us have accidentally done) and it could be handy!  :D
14:22 Dyrcona If you do, I can help you make the passwords go away so long as no one cloned the repo in the meantime.
14:22 Dyrcona It will break your history, but sometimes you have to.
14:23 ohiojoe lol, yeah, that would be annoying..
14:23 ohiojoe the only good thing is most of the systems I'm talking about are behind a firewall with no outside access, so as long as the 13 year olds in the neighborhood didn't find it....
14:26 Dyrcona I usually keep local repos for that kind of thing.
14:26 Dyrcona Same thing for web sites.
14:27 Dyrcona Git can be checked out in one directory with the actual git innards in a different place.
14:27 Dyrcona That's handy for that kind of thing.
14:27 ohiojoe hmm, sounds like I need to do a little digging
14:28 Dyrcona For instance, my user account has a directory called git-repos, where I create bare repositories.
14:28 Dyrcona That's where the canonical version resides.
14:28 Dyrcona Then, for a website under /var/www/sitename let's say...
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14:29 ohiojoe local repos sound like a useful way to organize local information while also getting familiar with using git
14:29 Dyrcona They are..
14:30 ohiojoe well, it sounds like I've found one of my next projects..  I could do with fewer word processing documents laying around
14:30 Dyrcona Anyway, I'll do something like git clone --separate-git-dir /home/user/sitename /home/git-repos/sitename
14:30 Dyrcona Then, all the sensitive git stuff is in the user's home directory presumably where the web server can't see it.
14:31 Dyrcona Push and pull and all of that still works in /var/www/sitename
14:31 Dyrcona Works for configurations, too, but I usually copy those into place by hand.
14:32 ohiojoe now that I think about it, this seems like overkill, but git and asciidoc would be useful for managing public library policies.  The version control of git would maintain a useful history of what had come before and ascii doc would allow it to be published/pushed into different channels with minimal effort..
14:32 Dyrcona I use git to track my changes for those mainly.
14:32 Dyrcona Yeap.
14:33 ohiojoe the only downside is the discomfort my successor would feel trying to learn it if they were not technically minded...
14:34 Dyrcona Well, asciidoc is very simple. Much easier than say, roff or tex.
14:34 Dyrcona Not as "simple" as a WYSIWYG editor.
14:35 ohiojoe yeah, but if the person found reading/writing html overwhelming..
14:36 Dyrcona It's easier than HTML.
14:36 Dyrcona It's mostly just dashes and things in the right places.
14:37 Dyrcona You've seen the Evergreen and OpenSRF READMEs, right? They're asciidoc.
14:37 Dyrcona And there's alwasy markdown if you want something even simpler and more "obvious>"
14:41 ohiojoe hmm.  well, either way, I've decided having survived the conference, it's time for me to get involved in other ways, so I think getting stuck in git and asciidoc is the next step
14:42 ohiojoe For instance, I suspect I can find some time to do some documentation, and if not, I'm sure I could learn asciidoc well enough to convert other folks work into that format..
14:48 ohiojoe dyrcona++  thank you for the chat
14:48 Dyrcona ohiojoe: yw.
14:56 jeff not the first time i've wanted there to be a caniuse-like thing for evergreen features, but a bit inverse: more of a whouses...
14:58 jeff probably still better to just ask. :)
15:07 terran ohiojoe++ Hooray for documentation volunteering!
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15:23 gmcharlt because we don't have enough work keeping up with our frameworks: bug 1682609
15:23 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1682609 in Evergreen "upgrade angular-ui-bootstrap to at least 1.3.3" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1682609
15:24 gmcharlt I'll try at least 1.3.3 in the upcoming branch we'll be working on for the Angular serials interface
15:27 dbs yayz
15:29 dbs LESS OLD STUFF
15:30 jonadab Shouldn't we try to get different Evergreen components using at least three different versions of Node?
15:31 * jonadab ducks.
15:31 * gmcharlt unleases the ENTIRE flock of ducks at jonadab
15:38 Dyrcona UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!
15:38 terran Wouldn't that be the Quacken?
15:38 Dyrcona Ha!
15:38 Dyrcona terran++
15:38 gmcharlt terran++
15:39 gmcharlt and I think 3.0 now has a mascot
15:39 terran (That bad pun might be the most productive thing I've done all day.)
15:41 Dyrcona Some days are like that.
15:42 Dyrcona I've mostly been running commands and waiting on them to finish.
15:42 * jonadab dons an oilskin cloak and readies a wand of lightning.
15:42 jonadab Bring on the kraken.
15:42 terran I had 3 meetings. That took up most of the day.
15:42 Dyrcona The Quacken.... :)
15:44 jonadab And hey, at least I didn't suggest rewriting the Acquisitions module in Perl6.
15:44 Dyrcona :)
15:44 Dyrcona Perl6: Python for old farts. :)
15:45 jonadab Ah, Serials in Python3, Acquisitions in Perl6?
15:45 Dyrcona I've tried Perl 6, and I have the same reaction to it that I had to Python 1.5 in 1999: I don't need this. I have Perl 5. :)
15:46 Dyrcona So, in 2035, I might actually use it for something. :)
15:46 jonadab Yeah, I keep trying to motivate myself to learn Perl6.  Haven't quite managed yet.
15:47 jonadab Somebody at the conference was talking about a prefab-reports thing that was done in PHP, IIRC.
15:47 jonadab All we need now is to add Haskell into the mix somehow...
15:50 Dyrcona I haven't tried Haskell, though I've sniffed around the edges.
15:50 Dyrcona An erlang implementation/transport for OpenSRF seems natural enough without ejabberd. :)
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15:51 Dyrcona But erlang syntax is really weird, and I look at back at the sample/test programs I wrote in 2010/2011, and I wonder, "What does that do, again?"
15:52 Dyrcona I should write an OpenSRF/gateway client in Emacs Lisp. I might actually have a use for that.
15:52 jonadab Yeah, I haven't tried Haskell either; from what I know of it, it seems sort like lisp with a higher learning curve, for smarter programmers.  Or something.
15:53 Dyrcona s/smarter programmers/masochists/ # Fixed that for you. :)
15:53 jonadab Heh.
15:53 Dyrcona Haskell tries to take functional programming to the extreme, but runs into a problem called the real world.
15:55 jonadab One of the best NetHack players in the world writes Haskell code for a living.
15:56 jonadab Something about code that bids for impressions in realtime on behalf of advertisers.
16:00 Dyrcona Perl 6 isn't just an incremental improvement on Perl 5, either. It really is a new language.
16:01 Dyrcona It's kind of like Python with braces. :)
16:02 jonadab Yes, I've seen enough articles about it to not mistake it for a minor upgrade to Perl5.
16:02 jonadab Some of the Apocalypse articles made me want to learn it right away.  Others made me want to put it off for a long time, or avoid it forever.
16:03 jonadab And that was a while ago now.
16:04 Dyrcona I installed it, did some tutorials, reimplemented a couple of things that I usually do when learning a new language, and decided "Meh."
16:05 Dyrcona "Perl5 forever!"
16:11 Dyrcona Hm... So looks like upgrading from 2.10.7 to 2.12.x is going to take a while.
16:11 Dyrcona Lots of database stuff going on.
16:12 Dyrcona New fingerprints, new 901$s field, browse and facet ingest...something else that update 9 million records in our system, but runs fast compared to the others.
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16:32 pinesol_green News from qatests: Test Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
16:33 bshum yay!  success!
16:33 bshum dbs++
16:36 Dyrcona :)
16:42 miker Dyrcona: you can ignore the 901$s, any of the other changes will do that for you automatically. fingerprints, too, IIRC.
16:42 kmlussier dbs++
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19:45 * dbs breathes a sigh of relief
19:48 jeff those hourly test failure charges would have made for a terrible weekend. ;-)
19:52 dbs jeff: that reminded me to shut down my GCE instance
21:04 * gmcharlt has the first development update blog post queued up to post tomorrow morning
21:12 * bshum contemplates renaming "2.next" to "3.next" in LP
21:16 gmcharlt looks straightforward enough
21:16 gmcharlt +1
21:17 bshum gmcharlt: I suppose that if we get through all the pullrequests and actively retarget for stuff that's going to get merged, or remove pullrequest and untag and add needsrepatch, that list of stuff targeting 3.next will go away
21:36 pinesol_green [evergreen|Josh Stompro] LP#1667115 - Silence config.hard_due_date warning - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=2d0c914>
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