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rhamby |
morning, may all your coffee be hot and your teas be well infused |
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| 08:40 |
kmlussier |
rhamby: Unless it's iced coffee. Hot iced coffee is never a good thing. |
| 08:41 |
rhamby |
kmlussier: not a fan of iced coffee, didn't even occur to me :) |
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kmlussier |
rhamby: I only drink it on occasion. |
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| 08:59 |
tsbere |
rhamby / kmlussier: http://thedoghousediaries.com/3096 |
| 09:10 |
rhamby |
tsbere: probably about right |
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| 10:53 |
rfrasur |
Hey all. I just added a launchpad bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1595216 |
| 10:53 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1595216 in Evergreen "Need "Billing Library" in column picker in Current Bills screen" [Undecided,New] |
| 11:10 |
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| 11:22 |
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| 11:31 |
bos20k |
Hello everyone. Here is a question hopefully someone will have an idea on -- Is is possible to limit the number of interlibrary loan holds to 5 per patron consortium wide? I see config.hold_matrix_matchpoint.max_holds in the database but I am not seeing how that could be translated to a consortium wide hold limit per patron. |
| 11:44 |
csharp |
bos20k: our rules have the config.hold_matrix_matchpoint.max_holds set to the max for all hold policies |
| 11:46 |
bos20k |
csharp: most of ours don't have anything for max_holds but a few do. What is being required of us is to limit the number of holds that a patron can place to 5 for ILL. We don't really want to limit them to 5 within their own library though... |
| 11:57 |
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| 11:58 |
jeff |
bos20k: first question -- how are you defining an "interlibrary loan hold"? |
| 12:01 |
kmlussier |
My interpretation of the question is they want to limit to 5 for holds from outside the home library. But I'm curious how holds between branches in one system should be handled. |
| 12:02 |
jeff |
still not sure how you'd do "holds from outside the home library" |
| 12:19 |
rhamby |
could be done, depending on number of org units could be a lot of policies but definitely doable |
| 12:20 |
bshum |
jeff: Well, if the hold matrix were configured in such a way that you defined a rule set where requestor = home as a "local hold" vs. any other rule matchpoint being an ILL I guess. |
| 12:22 |
bshum |
request_ou, pickup_ou, item_owning_ou, item_circ_ou, user_home_ou, etc. |
| 12:22 |
bshum |
(not requestor, which is requestor_grp for the group, my bad) |
| 12:25 |
bshum |
bos20k: I assume your question is related to what afterl wrote to the list? |
| 12:31 |
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| 12:44 |
bshum |
Hmmm, that said, I suppose that max_hold on a different rule set won't care if it's counting ILL or not. |
| 12:44 |
bshum |
It'll just see, patron has X holds and block |
| 12:45 |
bshum |
So yeah, I change my answer |
| 12:46 |
bshum |
So you can't have a rule only block on 5 ILL holds, vs. unlimited local holds. Cause any local holds above 5 would cause the ILL rules to fail |
| 12:46 |
bshum |
*would also cause |
| 12:47 |
bshum |
This is why max holds just never worked the way people wished it did :( |
| 12:47 |
bos20k |
Sorry for being away... |
| 12:48 |
bshum |
bos20k: Oh no worries, I'm just rambling myself into circles |
| 12:48 |
bos20k |
bshum: This is for Bibliomation BTW... |
| 12:48 |
bshum |
Holds are... well, complicated. :D |
| 12:49 |
bos20k |
bshum: The state library wants us to limit ILL holds to 5 per patron. We don't want to limit patrons to 5 holds period. |
| 12:49 |
Dyrcona |
In terms of local vs. ill holds, the only thing I have done is prevent certain circ modifier'd items from going into ILL. |
| 12:50 |
Dyrcona |
bos20k: I suggest experimenting with the max_holds on chmm to see if it works for you. |
| 12:50 |
Dyrcona |
I'm not sure it does what you want, but I've never tried. |
| 12:51 |
Dyrcona |
It will also lead to an explosion in hold matrix matchpoint entries. |
| 12:51 |
bos20k |
It sounds like there may not be a way to have a hold limit of 5 for ILL and higher or no limit for holds at the patron's home library? |
| 12:51 |
Dyrcona |
For the most part, Evergreen doesn't differentiate. |
| 12:51 |
bos20k |
Dyrcona: yeah, I was thinking maybe if we reworked out matrix matchpoints but then there would be a ton of them... |
| 12:51 |
Dyrcona |
A hold is a hold. |
| 12:52 |
Dyrcona |
If Evergreen can do it, the max_holds column is probably how it would work.... |
| 12:52 |
Dyrcona |
Ah! |
| 12:53 |
Dyrcona |
The hold matrix doesn't understand fall through, so that makes it complicated. |
| 12:54 |
bshum |
Dyrcona: Right, it's exact match only |
| 12:54 |
bshum |
So that definitely explodes the number of rules you'd need to differentiate between ILL vs. local home |
| 12:54 |
Dyrcona |
You couldn't just put in one blanket matchpoint of the consortium and then make exceptions for each member. |
| 12:54 |
bshum |
Well, best match; not exact match |
| 12:55 |
Dyrcona |
The easiest thing is set the limit to 5 holds, period. |
| 12:55 |
Dyrcona |
bshum: Right. |
| 12:55 |
bos20k |
Dyrcona: I'm thinking that may be what ends up happening, 5 holds period. People won't be happy about that though... |
| 12:56 |
Dyrcona |
That's also why it might not do what you want, 'cause the limit would be 5 holds at each other library, and I don't know how that plays out when multiple libraries own the same titles. |
| 12:56 |
bos20k |
Dyrcona: Oh yeah, that's also what I was thinking, that it would be 5 holds per patron per library which doesn't even match the requirements anyway... |
| 12:57 |
bos20k |
I didn't see a 'holds limit' per patron setting anywhere in the staff client or database. |
| 12:58 |
Dyrcona |
There is one...just a sec'. |
| 12:59 |
Dyrcona |
Have everybody in the state do a floating collections! Problem solved. :) |
| 13:00 |
bos20k |
Dyrcona: Hah, no. :) |
| 13:03 |
Dyrcona |
bos20k: I thought there was a standing penalty for this, but guess I was wrong. |
| 13:03 |
bshum |
The only standing penalties are for circ related stuff, losts, overdues, fines dued |
| 13:03 |
bos20k |
Dyrcona: thanks for looking. I didn't see one either. |
| 13:03 |
bshum |
I don't think there are any hold ones |
| 13:03 |
bshum |
Though, I imagine it isn't impossible to build one.... :) |
| 13:04 |
Dyrcona |
I thought there was a max holds limit somewhere, but maybe there isn't, other than in the matrix. |
| 13:10 |
Dyrcona |
bos20k: I think what you're trying to achieve would require development. |
| 13:10 |
miker |
bos20k: you can come close, if you define "ILL" as "will transit out of a system" |
| 13:11 |
miker |
or, rather, you can do it if you use that definition |
| 13:11 |
miker |
as opposed to ownership and patron home distance |
| 13:11 |
Dyrcona |
miker: So you're looking at circ_lib vs pickup_ou? |
| 13:12 |
miker |
Dyrcona: yes |
| 13:12 |
miker |
or owning_lib, if that's more stable |
| 13:12 |
miker |
by using distance_is_from_owner |
| 13:12 |
Dyrcona |
miker: I think the weighting would need to be "just so." |
| 13:15 |
bos20k |
Thank you all for your input. This will help us decide how to proceed from here. |
| 13:15 |
bshum |
But even if we could differentiate between types of hold via those methods, wouldn't the max_hold count just be counting the global number of holds for a given user? Meaning if they had 10 "local" holds of any type, they wouldn't be able to use the ILL rule if it had max_holds of 5? |
| 13:15 |
bshum |
I would think further development would need to be made to expand what exactly max_holds counts towards applying it. |
| 13:16 |
miker |
bshum: yes |
| 13:16 |
bshum |
The hold equivalent of circ limit sets I guess. |
| 13:16 |
Dyrcona |
hold limit sets: oh, joy.... |
| 13:16 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 13:17 |
Dyrcona |
bhum: You'll have to come back for another tag team presentation at the conference, then. |
| 13:18 |
bshum |
Dyrcona: You mean the one where we roll our eyes and tell people to please for the love of god, please keep it simpler? |
| 13:19 |
Dyrcona |
"Jumping out of Planes with no Parachutes" |
| 13:19 |
bshum |
"Holds for you, me, and that guy who wants ALL THE THINGS" |
| 13:20 |
Dyrcona |
Let him have the 1000 DVDs... He ought to be able to rip 'em all in a week. |
| 13:25 |
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| 14:12 |
* Dyrcona |
imagines phasefx saying, "Chaos powers, activate!" |
| 14:32 |
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