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IRC log for #evergreen, 2016-05-19

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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08:06 bshum @dice 1d20
08:06 pinesol_green bshum: 8
08:07 bshum Aww, miss!
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08:13 kmlussier Lovely! I started my morning off making a typo in an LP comment, which, of course, can't be edited.
08:14 kmlussier @coffee
08:14 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of Sumatra Lake Tawar, and sends it sliding down the bar to kmlussier
08:14 kmlussier pinesol_green: Thank you for not giving me decaf.
08:14 pinesol_green kmlussier: BIG LETTERS MEAN BIG IDEAS, AM I RIGHT THOUGHT LEADERS?
08:14 pinesol_green kmlussier: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
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08:25 pastebot "krvmga" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "eg_vhost.conf virtual host section" (34 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/10
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08:27 pastebot "krvmga" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "more eg.conf and eg_vhost.conf" (4 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/11
08:28 krvmga the issue i'm experiencing is that http://training.cwmars.org and http://academic.cwmars.org are showing the same templates
08:28 bshum krvmga: Quick glance, you could be more specific with the Virtualhost: *:80 definitions.  Make them like <Virtualhost: training.cwmars.org:80>
08:28 kmlussier krvmga: Since you're in here, I'm looking for feedback on https://bugs.launchpad.net/eve​rgreen/+bug/1424656/comments/6
08:28 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1424656 in Evergreen "OPAC: grammatical error in patron hold status display" [Undecided,Confirmed]
08:29 bshum So that when you go to that site (over port 80) you get the right pathing
08:29 kmlussier krvmga: I thought you might be interested since you submitted the original patch.
08:29 bshum You probably need 443 definitions too, if they aren't already around somewhere.
08:29 krvmga bshum: thanks. i'll try that.
08:29 bshum Otherwise, if someone went to the secure site, it wouldn't apply the right additional templates too
08:29 krvmga kmlussier: i just saw you had popped this up and thought "wow, that looks really familiar"
08:30 kmlussier krvmga: Well, to be fair, Scott Thomas popped it up.
08:30 krvmga bshum: i've got the 443 definitions in there but i'll look there, too
08:30 bshum kmlussier: My two cents, go with the JSPA version :)
08:30 kmlussier bshum: Ha ha. Way to make me feel better about my typo. ;)
08:30 bshum kmlussier: Though either way, it seems to me like a language alteration so not slated for fix till 2.next
08:30 krvmga kmlussier: i prefer "copy/copies"
08:31 kmlussier krvmga: Yeah, I wasn't so much looking for the copy/copies feedback. But the mmorgan suggestion vs. the JSPAC variation.
08:31 bshum Well, release fix anyways, anybody can locally patch.
08:31 kmlussier bshum: I was thinking about that. I understand the constraints with string changes. But if something is a bug, it's a bug, right
08:32 kmlussier Scott is right. Libraries are left looking silly with the current string. And there are lots of sites that probably don't locally patch.
08:33 krvmga kmlussier: i'm happy with "hold x on y copy/copies"; patron confusion over the word "potential"?
08:34 kmlussier krvmga: OK, can you add that preference to the bug for documentation purposes? If we get enough feedback to go in one direction or another, I'll try to whip up a branch this afternoon.
08:35 kmlussier Hmmm...we could also combine the two ideas. hold # x of y copy/copies
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08:39 krvmga bshum: i tried making the virtualhost more specific and got [warn] VirtualHost training.cwmars.org:80 overlaps with VirtualHost academic.cwmars.org:80, the first has precedence, perhaps you need a NameVirtualHost directive
08:40 krvmga kmlussier: i'll do it right now.
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08:42 * Dyrcona checks the log
08:42 bshum krvmga: Oh hmm, heh
08:42 * bshum is rusty
08:43 Dyrcona And there isn't a log for today.
08:44 bshum There is
08:44 bshum It's just not linked
08:44 bshum Probably bad caching for the main log page
08:44 bshum Go for the "today" link Dyrcona
08:44 Dyrcona Ah, OK. Not in the calendar, but the Today link works.
08:44 * Dyrcona is embarrassed. :)
08:45 * bshum cleared the cache and the main calendar entries are all linked up again
08:45 bshum It's a goofy bug that happens to ilbot from time to time
08:46 bshum I hope someday whenever I get around to upgrading it, maybe it'll stop being weird.
08:46 Dyrcona krvmga: You can't do that in an Apache config. You need a NameVirtualHost directive for the second one, just like the error tells you.
08:47 bshum Re-reading it, I think krvmga was okay with the original paste actually, with Virtualhost *:80, etc.
08:47 bshum With the variant ServerName
08:47 bshum So if the templates aren't showing, then it seems more like an ordering problem with the directives?
08:48 * bshum never really played with template overrides
08:48 krvmga bshum: i originally thought it was an ordering problem but the ordering is right in eg_vhost.conf
08:49 bshum krvmga: The 2nd paste, with the three in reverse
08:50 bshum Is that in the main eg_vhost.conf?
08:50 bshum Or err
08:50 krvmga bshum: that's the main eg_vhost.conf
08:50 krvmga the second paste
08:50 bshum Cause that would mean it would apply those three template all the time
08:50 bshum Regardless of which host you use
08:51 bshum In eg.conf, that extra block you're trying in the virtualhost area to define additional template overrides per host
08:51 bshum That's how you apply the extras
08:51 bshum But if you define them globally in eg_vhost.conf, it'll apply them all the time
08:52 bshum I would remove the extra overrides from there, then reload apache, and see if academic vs. cwopac show different after that.
08:52 krvmga bshum: i thought it cascaded through by host name
08:52 krvmga bshum: i'll try that right now
08:52 Dyrcona krvmga: What does apachectl -S report?
08:52 krvmga Dyrcona: i'll check
08:53 bshum krvmga: Or are you saying you need cwopac and academic together to form a more perfect opac for academics?
08:54 pastebot "krvmga" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "output of apachectl -S" (11 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/12
08:54 bshum In which case, if everybody needs cwopac, then you could leave that defined globally, and only apply the academic extra for that definition.
08:54 Dyrcona The sites are configured properly, but should they have the same document root?
08:55 krvmga bshum: no. cwopac and academic should show different sets of templates. let me try what you suggested and i'll let you know
08:55 krvmga Dyrcona: in this case i was just following the example in the docs
08:55 bshum krvmga: Then yeah, what I said should work.  In theory.
08:55 krvmga they show /openils/var/web as the document root
08:56 bshum Or at least, based on my read of how http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2.1​0/_how_to_override_templates.html works
08:56 bshum It says apache configuration for "all libraries" (eg_vhost.conf) vs. apache configuration for each virtual host (eg.conf)
08:56 bshum For the last two sections.
08:57 bshum So the "all libraries" is the key difference, if you list them there, they apply to everybody
08:58 krvmga bshum: thanks, that appears to have done the trick.
08:58 krvmga bshum++
08:58 krvmga Dyrcona++
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09:00 krvmga okay, i think the doc wasn't clear enough for my brain - maybe i'll submit a doc patch for that page to spell it out a little more
09:01 bshum krvmga++
09:08 kmlussier mmorgan: Yes, I agree with your comment on the preposition. I had the same thought after submitting my last comment, but I didn't want to spam bug mail with yet another small tweak to the string. :)
09:09 graced @dessert phasefx
09:09 * pinesol_green grabs some Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream for phasefx
09:10 graced (happy birthday!)
09:10 bshum phasefx++
09:10 mmorgan kmlussier: Gotcha :)
09:11 * Dyrcona doesn't like copy/copies, plus if the string is internationalized, it needs to work for languages with different plural forms based on number.
09:11 kmlussier @dessert 41 phasefx
09:11 * pinesol_green grabs some birthday cake with lots of candles for phasefx
09:11 graced kmlussier++
09:12 kmlussier Dyrcona: I could be misremembering, but I believe copy/copies may already be in lots of places in the tpac files.
09:12 Dyrcona kmlussier: It may be, but that doesn't make it optimal.
09:13 kmlussier What would your suggestion be then?
09:14 Dyrcona I'd have to look at it, but likely something based on the number to choose the appropriate word.
09:14 * mmorgan assumed that copy/copies meant that it would be singular if y=1 and plural if y>1. That's what it does currently.
09:14 kmlussier Yes, what mmorgan said
09:15 Dyrcona I assumed it meant literally what was mentioned in the comment.
09:15 * Dyrcona shuts up, now.
09:15 kmlussier Dyrcona: No, since it already is doing that, I just assumed people understood what my shorthand meant. ;)
09:15 mmorgan @tea Dyrcona
09:15 * pinesol_green brews and pours a pot of Dragon Pearl Jasmine, and sends it sliding down the bar to Dyrcona (http://ratetea.com/tea/harney​/dragon-pearl-jasmine/1320/)
09:16 * kmlussier would like to start working on it now, but should probably slog through some more emails first. :(
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09:48 * Dyrcona is working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1548993
09:48 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1548993 in Evergreen 2.9 "TPAC Show More/Fewer Details Button does not work with show_more_details.default set to true" [Undecided,Confirmed]
09:54 * phasefx loves mint chocolate chip
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09:55 kmlussier phasefx: I was tempted to send you Samoas instead of the birthday cake.
09:57 phasefx kmlussier: you sent me a birthday cake?  thanks!  :D
09:58 kmlussier phasefx: well, technically, pinesol_green did.
09:58 phasefx ah!  see it now; I stopped at ice cream *8)
09:59 mmorgan phasefx: Better blow out all those candles, quick!
10:01 csharp @dessert phasefx
10:01 * pinesol_green grabs some pineapple chocolate things from New Zealand for phasefx
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10:28 Dyrcona So, I found a small issue with the 0951 upgrade script.
10:29 Dyrcona It doesn't insert the version into config.upgrade_log if you run the script by itself, because that line is commented out.
10:29 Dyrcona I'm tempted to just fix it and push it to master and rel_2_10, but wondered if the consensus is that I go through Launchpad, etc.
10:30 Dyrcona The 2.9.3-2.10.0 upgrade script does insert the version, so this won't affect ordinary upgrades or releases.
10:31 * Dyrcona makes a branch and waits for some input.
10:31 kmlussier Oof, sorry, that was me.
10:33 bshum Dyrcona: I'd go with 'just fix it' in the repos
10:34 bshum I wouldn't get crazy with LP
10:34 bshum It's just a followup fix for the original LP post-merge
10:34 Dyrcona Not that big of a deal, but I noticed when running my own DB upgrade script that it tried to apply it again.
10:34 bshum So if anything, reference the original LP# in the commit, if we wanted to trace it down
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10:40 Dyrcona S'pose I could throw up a branch and one or both of you could sign off on it?
10:45 Dyrcona bshum kmlussier: http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/​Evergreen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/co​llab/dyrcona/lp1499123_0951-upgrade-fix
10:45 Dyrcona It should got to master and rel_2_10.
10:46 Dyrcona bleh...go not got....I always do that.
11:15 kmlussier Dyrcona: Sorry, I was busy talking list migration stuff with tsbere. I'll take care of it now.
11:15 Dyrcona Thanks! No rush. It probably only really affects me. :)
11:22 pinesol_green [evergreen|Jason Stephenson] LP 1499123: 0951.schema.config.standing_p​enalty.ignore_proximity.sql. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=160563b>
11:22 kmlussier Dyrcona++
11:23 Dyrcona kmlussier++
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12:10 bshum gmcharlt++ # fixed width ledger summary on wiki
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12:13 rfrasur gmcharlt++ #same reason as bshum
12:14 kmlussier gmcharlt++ indeed
12:15 kmlussier gmcharlt: Do you ever hear anything from those people who are trying to set up a better way to access the ledger?
12:15 gmcharlt kmlussier: I did; live intervened with the person who was going to do it
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12:15 gmcharlt OTOH, hledger would not be hard to stand up on our own
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13:05 csharp @decide hledger or Heath Ledger
13:05 pinesol_green csharp: go with hledger
13:07 Dyrcona csharp: I thought something similar when I saw hledger.
13:14 * rfrasur chooses Heath Ledger.
13:15 * kmlussier agrees with rfrasur
13:16 csharp @why so serious?
13:16 pinesol_green csharp: Go away, or I'll replace you with a very small shell script!
13:17 rfrasur pinesol_green, why so @grumpy?
13:17 pinesol_green rfrasur: If all else fails, try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging
13:17 pinesol_green Factoid 'why so @grumpy?' not found
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13:29 jeff straw poll: do most folk disable replication when running database upgrades? i think it's common to do so when using slony, but do you also disable things like WAL continuous archiving, or streaming replication?
13:32 csharp jeff: I do
13:32 csharp it doesn't seem worth all the WAL files
13:33 jeff the benefits seem limited.
13:33 jeff you're operating with no clients connected.
13:33 csharp and it's so easy in PG 9.4+ to use pg_basebackup and replication slots to repopulate the replicas
13:34 bmills1 jeff: we just did a 9.3 upgrade from 9.1 and i stopped our streaming replication reporting database beforehand, blew away the 9.1 cluster and restored from a pg_basebackup of the production database after the upgrade
13:35 jeff extra overhead (during) and storage (continuing, for whatever your WAL retention is)...
13:36 jeff bmills1: oh, if i was unclear -- i was talking about evergreen upgrades and not postgres upgrades
13:36 jeff we're on postgres 9.4 already.
13:36 bmills1 jeff: ah, ok. sorry!
13:38 jeffdavis jeff: I'm not planning to disable replication when we do our upgrade this weekend.
13:38 jeff bmills1: I know you can't log-ship between two different major postgres versions... can you do streaming replication between?
13:39 jeff jeffdavis: and (somewhat tangental) what replication methods and postgres version are you working with?
13:40 jeffdavis PG9.4 with streaming replication
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13:41 jeffdavis i.e. the built-in streaming replication functionality in 9.0+, not slony
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13:42 jeff jeffdavis: do you see advantages to the replication during the upgrade, or is it more a matter of avoiding the overhead of breaking and re-establishing the replication?
13:42 bmills1 jeff: i'm not sure. i don't think it would be recommended? both replica and the main postgres database were always running the same version when they were talking to each other. i stopped streaming before the upgrade and then had the empty 9.3 replica fed from the 9.3 master
13:43 jeff "we have this replication up and running already, we have the capacity to keep it running, there's little advantage in stopping and starting it -- just keep it running", etc.
13:43 jeff bmills1: got it. thanks. :-)
13:43 jeffdavis jeff: the latter - less work to do (in theory), which means more attention for squashing upgrade bugs
13:44 jeff got it!
13:44 jeff any of you using streaming replication also continuing to ship WAL logs anywhere, even for "just in case"?
13:45 jeff (we're currently not streaming, but when we start i'm likely to continue to ship WAL files)
13:49 jeffdavis you mean shipping WAL logs somewhere other than the standby server?
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13:50 jeff i mean shipping WAL files somewhere other than the server(s) on the other end of the streaming replication.
13:51 jeff so, I think my answer to your question is "yes" :-)
13:51 graced T-10 minutes until the EOB meeting
13:51 jeff not talking about WAL shipping AND streaming replication to the same server, which sounds silly and likely not-possible. :-)
13:52 kmlussier joined #evergreen
13:53 csharp jeff: we have a replication slot that streams into a dir on an external hard drive on another server and we take nightly pg_basebackups
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14:01 sherbertbc joined #evergreen
14:01 rfrasur EOB meeting is about to start
14:01 graced indeed
14:01 graced #startmeeting Evergreen Oversight Board Meeting, May 19, 2016
14:01 pinesol_green Meeting started Thu May 19 14:01:42 2016 US/Eastern.  The chair is graced. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01 pinesol_green Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:01 pinesol_green The meeting name has been set to 'evergreen_oversight_board_meeting__may_19__2016'
14:01 graced #link Agenda http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.​php?id=governance:minutes:2016-5-19
14:01 graced #link Meetbot command cheatsheet http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/dok​u.php?id=community:using-meetbot
14:02 graced #topic Introductions
14:02 graced Oversight Board members, please introduce yourself with #info
14:02 mrpeters joined #evergreen
14:02 emckinney_ joined #evergreen
14:02 terran #info Terran McCanna, PINES / Georgia Public Library Service
14:02 rfrasur #info rfrasur is Ruth Frasur, Hagerstown Library, Evergreen Indiana
14:02 tspindler #info Tim Spindler, C/W MARS
14:02 sherbertbc #info sherbertbc is Sharon Herbert, BC Libraries Co-op
14:02 miker #info miker is Mike Rylander, ESI
14:02 afterl #info afterl = Amy Terlaga, Bibliomation
14:02 graced #info graced is Grace Dunbar, Equinox
14:02 tanyap joined #evergreen
14:03 collum #info collum is Garry Collum, KCPL
14:03 rgagnon #info rgagnon is Ron Gagnon, NOBLE
14:03 graced Thanks everyone
14:03 graced We have a quorum.  Before we get into the meeting I’d like to remind everyone that while EOB meetings are held publicly for transparency, the Board should be allowed to attend the agenda and business before the Board without disruption.
14:03 graced If the discussion detracts from the Board’s ability to manage the agenda and address the matters before the Board, the chair of the meeting reserves the right to formally recognize speakers according to parliamentary procedure.  EOB members will be given precedence in speaking on topics before the Board.
14:04 graced #topic Minutes/Actions from last meeting
14:04 graced #link http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.p​hp?id=governance:minutes:2016-04-21
14:04 graced #info There is a proposed amendment/clarification to the minutes from the last meeting.
14:04 graced #link  http://list.evergreen-ils.org/piper​mail/eg-oversight-board/attachments​/20160517/eee0ae8f/attachment.docx
14:05 graced the current motion before the Board is simply shall the Board allow the minutes to include Tanya’s clarification of the brief comments she made at the last meeting.
14:05 graced #info I would like to propose that perhaps we don’t amend the minutes but simply include a note stating that Tanya further clarified her comments via email and link to the EOB thread.
14:05 graced The floor is open for board member questions and discussion.
14:05 terran Who made the motion?
14:05 rfrasur There's no motion yet.
14:06 graced we're just having a discussion
14:06 terran I move that the first amendment be stricken from the record, and the second amendment be included with the meeting notes with an additional link to the EOB list discussion.
14:07 graced point of clarification: What record are you suggesting anything needs to be stricken from?
14:07 rfrasur I don't think there should be an amendment to the minutes.  As has been discussed in the list, the minutes do reflect what was said.
14:08 rfrasur There has, however, been added clarification that could included as an "attachment" to the minutes.
14:08 miker I think a link to the discussion on the list is appropriate
14:08 rfrasur agree with miker
14:08 collum agreed
14:09 afterl The discussion on the list is important
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14:10 graced rfrasur is that your substitue motion?
14:10 kmlussier joined #evergreen
14:10 tspindler ok i would move to offer a friendly amendment to terran's motion
14:10 terran I agree that the list discussion is important, but I also understand that the initial request to amend the minutes was for the purpose of allowing Tanya to clarify her points.
14:10 rfrasur I can't substitute a motion until action has been taken on the first one.
14:10 graced " Used to propose an alternative action to the main motion. Up to one main and
14:10 graced two substitute motions may be on the floor at one time. "
14:10 terran rfrasur: do I need to reword?
14:11 graced terran: do you object to tspindler's friendly amendment?
14:11 rfrasur Well, I'm not sure if we're saying the same thing.  My proposed motion would be that we amend the minutes to include Tanya's final clarification as an addendum and link the list discussion.
14:12 graced Here's what I'm going by: for reference "Substitute motion - Used to propose an alternative action to the main motion. Up to one main and
14:12 graced two substitute motions may be on the floor at one time. If a substitute motion passes, it does
14:12 graced away with the prior motions. If it fails, the previous motion comes back up for consideration.
14:12 terran I agree with Ruth, that was the intention of my motion.
14:12 tspindler i withdraw my friendly amendment then
14:12 rfrasur terran, is that wording acceptable to you and clear for all?
14:12 graced Point of clarification: when we say "include" do we mean a link to the email with the document?
14:13 graced Or do we mean the actual text?
14:13 miker terran, just so we're clear, you want to alter the minutes to include the body of the clarification document, or replace some content? or, just link to the document
14:13 rfrasur graced, I think the actual text should be added with clear acknowledgement of the later clarification.
14:13 rfrasur But the minutes should stand as is as well.
14:14 afterl I agree
14:14 terran I agree with Ruth - the original minutes, followed by the text of the clarification, then a link to the further discussion.
14:14 tspindler with the text treated as an addendum and not a correction to the minutes?
14:15 rfrasur Yes.  It's been stated that the original minutes were correct as a record of things said.
14:15 terran Yes, the minutes were correct, so the addendum should reflect that the clarification happened after the meeting.
14:15 graced Okay, does someone want to recap that in a motion?  :)
14:15 miker with the date of the clarification listed, please
14:15 tspindler we still have terran's original motion on the floor
14:16 rfrasur terran, would you like to withdraw that motion and we'll reword?
14:16 terran Yes, I withdraw my original motion - rfrasure, are you rewording?
14:17 rfrasur yeah, looking for the final clarification date.
14:17 graced http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/​eg-oversight-board/2016-May/thread.html
14:17 graced May 17?
14:17 rfrasur Okay, yes.
14:17 terran Yes, May 17
14:20 rfrasur I move that the minutes of the April 21 EOB meeting be accepted with the addition of final points of clarification by Tanya Prokrym regarding conference planning made on May 17 as an addendum and that the list discussion be linked in the minutes as well.
14:20 terran I second
14:20 graced discussion>
14:20 graced ?
14:21 graced Seeing none, I'll call the question
14:21 terran +1
14:21 tspindler #vote abstain
14:21 graced #startvote Shall the Board agree that the minutes of the April 21 EOB meeting be accepted with the addition of final points of clarification by Tanya Prokrym regarding conference planning made on May 17 as an addendum and that the list discussion be linked in the minutes as well?  Yes, No, Abstain
14:21 pinesol_green Begin voting on: Shall the Board agree that the minutes of the April 21 EOB meeting be accepted with the addition of final points of clarification by Tanya Prokrym regarding conference planning made on May 17 as an addendum and that the list discussion be linked in the minutes as well? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
14:21 pinesol_green Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:22 sherbertbc #vote yes
14:22 rfrasur #vote yes
14:22 graced #abstain
14:22 afterl #vote yes
14:22 collum #vote yes
14:22 terran #vote yes
14:22 tspindler #vote abstain
14:22 graced #vote abstain
14:22 miker #vote abstain
14:22 rgagnon #vote yes
14:22 graced #endvote
14:22 pinesol_green Voted on "Shall the Board agree that the minutes of the April 21 EOB meeting be accepted with the addition of final points of clarification by Tanya Prokrym regarding conference planning made on May 17 as an addendum and that the list discussion be linked in the minutes as well?" Results are
14:22 pinesol_green Yes (6): rfrasur, afterl, rgagnon, collum, terran, sherbertbc
14:22 pinesol_green Abstain (3): tspindler, graced, miker
14:23 graced #agreed  the Board agrees that the minutes of the April 21 EOB meeting be accepted with the addition of final points of clarification by Tanya Prokrym regarding conference planning made on May 17 as an addendum and that the list discussion be linked in the minutes as well.
14:23 graced #topic New Business
14:23 graced #info Financial Update
14:23 graced #link http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id​=governance:financials:update_2016_05_19
14:23 graced #info The Project is currently $29,114.80 in the black.
14:24 graced #info The Ledger is showing that the 2016 is currently $509.86 in the red.  Note that there may be some pending payments that have not hit the ledger yet.
14:24 graced gmcharlt: Would you be willing to re-run the financials on June 1 and send them to the EOB list?
14:24 gmcharlt graced: yes
14:24 miker graced: by payments do you mean income or expenses
14:24 tspindler Are the pending payments a significant number?
14:24 graced #action gmcharlt to run the financials on June 1 and forward to the EOB list
14:25 graced miker: I don't know - I know that Tanya believes the conference will end in the black by several thousand dollars so I assume there is pending income
14:26 graced I will ask the 2016 conference and the SFC for more clarity on outstanding payments and expenses
14:26 miker thanks
14:26 tspindler that answers my question also
14:26 berick joined #evergreen
14:26 dbwells joined #evergreen
14:26 graced We can crosscheck that with the SFC ledger and make sure everything looks good.
14:27 genpaku joined #evergreen
14:27 graced #action graced to follow up with 2016 conference and SFC for outstanding expenses/payments
14:27 graced Any other issues or questions with the financials?
14:27 rfrasur Hypothetical question.
14:27 pastebot joined #evergreen
14:27 Callender joined #evergreen
14:28 rfrasur If the conference (or any conference) ends in the red, is that covered by the Project?  Has it happened in the "modern era" (with SFC management)?
14:28 rfrasur So, kinda hypothetical...kinda informational.
14:28 graced Conference money is Project money.
14:28 graced If the conference is in the red the Project eats the loss
14:29 rfrasur K, thought so.  Wanted to see it in b/w.
14:29 graced and it has not ever happened to my knowedge
14:29 graced but we've come close a few times
14:29 rfrasur Okay.  Thanks.
14:29 graced anything else?
14:29 miker note, too, in the modern era, we also eat 10% extra
14:29 rfrasur lol, noted
14:29 graced but that's a discussion for another day  :)
14:30 graced #info Conference Committees
14:30 graced #info Adding members to the EOB standing Conference Committee
14:30 graced Are there any EOB volunteers for the standing conference committee?
14:30 tspindler I would be interested
14:30 rfrasur Who is on the standing committee right now?
14:30 graced tspindler++
14:30 terran I would also be interested.
14:31 afterl gracd: I think I already volunteered, yes?
14:31 graced Me and Chauncey and Amy
14:31 afterl sorry, graced.  Sticky e
14:31 mtcarlson joined #evergreen
14:31 rfrasur afterl, I think that's correct.
14:31 graced Though Chauncey is now part of the local committee so I don't think he can be on both...?
14:31 graced terran++
14:32 rfrasur And he's also not on the EOB anymore.  So that's a question..
14:32 graced We can have committee members that aren't on the EOB
14:32 rfrasur thank you...answered before asked.
14:32 rfrasur But no, I'd think a local committee member should not also be on the standing committee.
14:33 graced #info terran and tspindler volunteered to serve on the Conference Committee with afterl and graced
14:33 rfrasur tspindler++
14:33 rfrasur terran++
14:33 afterl yes, glad to have you two on board
14:33 graced indeed
14:34 graced #info Conference mailing lists
14:34 terran Thank you, I am looking forward to it.
14:34 JBoyer Depending on how long the standing committee stands I may have been on it. I was on some committee for the Hood River conference and thought it was that one.
14:34 tspindler YW
14:34 graced JBoyer: would you like to continue to be on it?
14:35 JBoyer If another body would be helpful I can, but if the current count of members is enough I don't know how much value I can add right now.
14:35 graced The more the merrier, I say.
14:36 graced #info JBoyer also volunteered for the conference committee
14:36 graced You've been dragooned!
14:36 terran JBoyer++
14:36 afterl welcome, JBoyer!
14:36 graced Are there issues or objections to the idea of the mailing lists as detailed here:
14:36 graced #link http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/​eg-oversight-board/2016-May/001441.html
14:36 JBoyer I believe I'm supposed to at least find my shilling at the bottom of a beer. Someone will have to see to that later.
14:37 graced JBoyer++
14:37 rfrasur JBoyer++ Shillings++ Beer++
14:37 graced okay, okay, back on topic.....   :)
14:37 graced No objections to those mailing lists?
14:37 tspindler The lists are a good idea, no objections here
14:37 terran I agree
14:37 rfrasur It sounded like most people were amenable from the discussion I saw.  I know I am.
14:38 graced okay then
14:38 graced #action  graced will follow up to have those lists created
14:38 miker indeed
14:38 collum Yep.  I think they are a great idea.
14:38 graced #topic Update on the 2017 process.
14:38 rgagnon Sounds good to me.
14:38 graced #info  There was a kickoff call last week with the Host Point of Contact, the SFC rep, and the Conference Committee Chair.  The SFC is going to enter negotiations with the selected host venue shortly.
14:38 graced #info The anticipated dates of the 2017 conference will be April 5th-8th, 2017.
14:39 graced Questions?
14:39 graced seeing none, we move on
14:39 graced #topic  Review and revision of the Rules of Governance
14:39 graced #info  Community member Elizabeth McKinney specifically requested that the Evergreen Oversight Board undertake a review of the Evergreen Rules of Governance, section 2.8. Conflicts of Interest.
14:39 graced tspindler sent copy of the C/W Mars Board’s Conflict of Interest policy as a way to get the conversation started and provide an example of a different policy.
14:39 graced #link http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/​eg-oversight-board/2016-May/001450.html
14:39 graced tspindler++
14:40 tspindler is it correct to assume that the current rules were cribbed from somewhere else?
14:40 rfrasur tspindler++ #thanks for that; very thoroughly written
14:40 terran I have not yet read the C/W Mars document closely, but at first glance it looked like a good basis for us.
14:40 graced My biggest question is should this review be expanded to include a review of the whole of the Rules of Governance or should it be limited to the Conflicts of Interest?
14:41 rfrasur It's generally best practice to review Rules of Governance on a regular basis...whether as a whole or bits at a time.
14:41 graced tspindler: I think gmcharlt might know the answer
14:41 terran I think it's reasonable to review the entire thing periodically.
14:41 miker I have something to request that may bear on this
14:41 * rfrasur listens to miker
14:41 afterl Start with Conflict of Interest ...?  Then the rest?
14:42 miker I'd like to volunteer to catalog the duties and responsibilities of each role and start a plain-English guide, perhaps with examples. My initial thought was that the target audience would be both incoming Board members and the broader community, and the objective would be to help them understand what it is we do, and how we do it, more easily.
14:42 tspindler miker++
14:43 graced Well that would certainly be helpful... didn't yboston start something like that?
14:43 rfrasur miker++
14:43 miker if so, I'd be happy to coordinate with him
14:43 collum miker++
14:43 rfrasur graced, there was definitely discussion of it with yboston
14:43 afterl nice volunteering, miker
14:43 tspindler to follow up with terran's comment, it might be worth while to do at least a quick annual review of the by-laws every year (nothing too in depth)
14:43 graced tspindler: absolutely
14:44 miker now, the reason it bears on full review, I think, is that that work may highlight areas that need polishing
14:44 terran I agree with this approach
14:44 rfrasur So, I think there are two things...well, three things...that may be separate things.
14:45 yboston Sadly I have made no progress on that endeavor
14:45 graced It seems prudent to form a committee to begin the review process and identify areas of improvement/clarification for the Rules of Governance.  Thoughts?
14:45 miker rfrasur: there are many separate things, yes ;)
14:45 rfrasur 1. A full review of the by-laws; 2. priority given to (2.8 Conflicts of Interest); and 3 (there might be more) - miker's proposal (that I'm not going to retype)
14:45 graced And then miker has volunteered to work on roles/responsibilites and explaining the EOB role in the Project more clearly?
14:45 miker graced: I will volunteer for that, as prep for my plain-English work :)
14:46 graced rfrasur: yes.
14:47 miker yboston: no worries. if you have thoughts, feel free to throw them at me separately
14:47 graced Though, I'm not certain that priority needs to be given to  section 2.8 - there are other areas that need just as much attention.
14:47 rfrasur In that case, I first move that the EOB undertake an annual review of the Rules of Governance.
14:47 yboston miker: OK
14:47 tspindler second rfrasur's motion
14:47 rfrasur graced...that's just what I was seeing in the room.
14:48 graced point of clarification: could you be more specific in your motion to make it more ... actionable?
14:48 terran I agree that we should give priority to 2.8
14:49 gmcharlt upon completion of the current motion, I would like to request an opportunity to make a couple brief notes regarding the history of the gov rules
14:49 graced gmcharlt: noted, thanks
14:49 rfrasur I'm going to withdraw my motion at this point.  I think there needs to be more discussion on the mechanism of the review.
14:50 graced okay gmcharlt you have the floor
14:50 gmcharlt ok, so this is in response to tspindler's question
14:51 gmcharlt the current governance rules are ultimately in effect under the aegis of the fiscal sponsorship agreement with Conservancy
14:51 gmcharlt viz, https://evergreen-ils.org/wp-content/uploa​ds/gov/2012-07-01_evergreen-sponsorship-ag​reement_signed-by-all_scanned-by-bkuhn.pdf
14:51 gmcharlt under those rules, the EOB publishes its governance structure and can modify it by majority vote
14:52 gmcharlt with the proviso that Conservancy must consent
14:52 gmcharlt (that consent not to be unreasonable withheld)
14:53 gmcharlt the authoritative version of the rules (at least from Conservancy's and the fiscal sponsorship agreement's POV) are to be found in the governance Git repository: http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​contrib/governance.git;a=summary
14:53 gmcharlt the current version of the rules were drafted with some input by Conservancy
14:54 gmcharlt but the specifical historical details -- I'd have to go through email archives to refresh my memory
14:54 gmcharlt suffice it to say, while EOB has a fair amount of leeway to amend rules as it sees fit, they ultimately have to be reviewed by Conservancy
14:54 rfrasur So, if I'm understanding correctly, we can vote on whatever, but SFC has some level of veto power.
14:54 graced gmcharlt++ thanks for the background
14:54 tspindler gmcharlt: that answers my question, i was mainly looking for background
14:54 gmcharlt who, in turn, have done some policy work of their own, and could be a potential resource
14:54 tspindler gmcharlt++
14:54 gmcharlt *whew*
14:54 terran Thank you, Galen.
14:54 terran gmcharlt++
14:55 kmlussier gmcharlt++
14:55 rfrasur gmcharlt++ #thank you
14:55 collum gmcharlt++
14:55 miker gmcharlt++
14:55 graced right.  back to the matter at hand.
14:55 graced Is there any interest in forming a committee to do the first pass of a review of the Rules of Governance to identify areas for improvement?
14:55 rfrasur So, as far as a mechanism goes, should there be a subcommittee?
14:55 graced jinx
14:55 rfrasur hah!  Yes, graced
14:56 miker graced: I think it should be a subcommittee, yes
14:56 graced Any dissent on that point?
14:56 terran I think it's a good idea.
14:56 tspindler I think a subcommittee could be tasked with looking at multiple examples of conflict of interest policy and a quicker review of the remaining bylaws
14:57 graced exactly tspindler
14:57 rfrasur agree tspindler
14:57 terran tspindler++
14:57 sherbertbc tspindler++
14:57 * miker pre-volunteers
14:57 * rfrasur volunteers also
14:57 graced Also, we have such great experince here - rgagnon, I'm looking at you
14:57 terran I also volunteer
14:57 rgagnon Sure, I will volunteer
14:57 tspindler i would volunteer also
14:57 collum Me too
14:57 graced Okay, let have a quick vote on forming the committee
14:58 rfrasur Do we need a motion?  If so, I motion that a subcommittee form to review the Rules of Governance.
14:58 afterl I second the motion
14:58 rfrasur or "be formed"
14:58 graced I call the question
14:58 emckinney_ I would like to volunteer Galen, Amy and myself as consultants from the Board that drafted the original Rules of Governance.
14:58 miker rfrasur: I like "form" ... thinking Voltron
14:58 graced #startvote Shall the Board agree that a committee will be created to review the Rules of Governance and identify areas of improvement/clarification? Yes, No, Abstain
14:58 pinesol_green Begin voting on: Shall the Board agree that a committee will be created to review the Rules of Governance and identify areas of improvement/clarification? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
14:58 pinesol_green Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:59 miker #vote yes
14:59 collum #vote yes
14:59 tspindler #vote yes
14:59 terran #vote yes
14:59 sherbertbc #vote yes
14:59 rfrasur miker - vehicles or cats?
14:59 graced #vote yes
14:59 rfrasur #vote yes
14:59 afterl #vote yes
14:59 rgagnon #vote yes
14:59 graced #endvote
14:59 pinesol_green Voted on "Shall the Board agree that a committee will be created to review the Rules of Governance and identify areas of improvement/clarification?" Results are
14:59 pinesol_green Yes (9): tspindler, rfrasur, miker, rgagnon, graced, collum, afterl, terran, sherbertbc
14:59 graced #agreed A committee will be created to review the Rules of Governance and identify areas of improvement/clarification.
15:00 graced # info rgagnon, terran, miker, rfrasur, tspindler, collum volunteered for the committee
15:00 graced Did I miss anyone?
15:01 graced #info rgagnon, terran, miker, rfrasur, tspindler and collum volunteered for the committee to review the Rules of Governance.
15:01 graced ^modified for specificity in the meeting notes
15:02 graced moving on in the interest of getting done in a timely fashion
15:02 graced #topic Outreach Committee Business
15:02 graced kmlussier?
15:02 kmlussier #info kmlussier is Kathy Lussier, MassLNC and Evergreen Outreach Committee
15:02 kmlussier #info The Outreach Committee is requesting that the Oversight Board authorize the committee to expend $400 on new Evergreen pens.
15:02 kmlussier We're running low on pens, and we would like to hand them out at the ALA Evergreen meeting in Orlando next month.
15:02 kmlussier That is all.
15:02 tspindler Move we fund the pens to a tune of $400
15:02 afterl I second it
15:03 graced discussion?
15:03 afterl they're great pens!
15:03 graced they are
15:03 miker they're the best pens, I tell you
15:03 * rfrasur doesn't have one.  Yet.
15:03 rfrasur :-(
15:03 graced okay, hearing no questions...
15:03 graced #startvote Shall the Board agree to expend $400 for Evergreen pens to be given away at library conferences to promote the Evergreen software and community? Yes, No, Abstain
15:03 pinesol_green Begin voting on: Shall the Board agree to expend $400 for Evergreen pens to be given away at library conferences to promote the Evergreen software and community? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
15:03 pinesol_green Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
15:03 sherbertbc #vote yes
15:03 tspindler #vote yes
15:03 rfrasur #vote yes
15:03 graced #vote yes
15:04 afterl #vote yes
15:04 miker #vote yes
15:04 terran #vote yes
15:04 collum #vote yes
15:04 rgagnon #vote yes
15:04 graced #endvote
15:04 pinesol_green Voted on "Shall the Board agree to expend $400 for Evergreen pens to be given away at library conferences to promote the Evergreen software and community?" Results are
15:04 pinesol_green Yes (9): tspindler, rfrasur, miker, rgagnon, graced, collum, afterl, terran, sherbertbc
15:04 kmlussier rfrasur: We handed them out at the panel you participated it last month!
15:04 graced #agreed The Board approves the expenditure of $400 for Evergreen pens to be used by the Outreach Committee to promote Evergreen.
15:04 kmlussier Thank you EOB!
15:04 graced kmlussier++
15:04 rfrasur Well...I didn't take one, lol.
15:04 graced #topic Release Manager's Report
15:04 graced miker?  Anything to report?
15:05 terran kmlussier++ (also, I will be at ALA, so I'll be happy to spend some time at the booth)
15:05 miker I can keep this short: I'll be herding my cats and announcing a tentative schedule within the next week
15:05 graced there's no booth at ALA for the Project this year
15:05 kmlussier terran: No booth this year, but I may tap you for help in our meeting.
15:05 terran kmlussier: sure thing
15:05 graced okay, thanks miker
15:05 graced Is there any other new business?
15:07 graced Seeing none... I am sticking a fork in this one.
15:07 graced Thanks everyone!
15:07 graced #endmeeting
15:07 pinesol_green Meeting ended Thu May 19 15:07:32 2016 US/Eastern.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
15:07 pinesol_green Minutes:        http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2016/evergreen.2016-05-19-14.01.html
15:07 pinesol_green Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2016/evergreen.2016-05-19-14.01.txt
15:07 pinesol_green Log:            http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergree​n/2016/evergreen.2016-05-19-14.01.log.html
15:07 miker graced++
15:07 graced See you next month!
15:07 tspindler graced++
15:07 rfrasur graced++
15:07 collum graced++
15:07 sherbertbc graced++
15:07 kmlussier graced++
15:07 terran ciao!
15:07 graced y'all++
15:07 tspindler au revoir
15:08 afterl bye!
15:08 emckinney_ left #evergreen
15:08 kmlussier phasefx: I'll take another look at bug 957466. I ran the tests before merging the code, and I swear they completed successfully at the time.
15:08 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 957466 in Evergreen "overlaying a record from vandelay does not update editor/edit_date" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/957466
15:09 kmlussier phasefx: Oh, wait. That's not the same test, is it?
15:09 ethomsen left #evergreen
15:09 phasefx kmlussier: nope!
15:10 kmlussier kmlussier-- #Not running ALL the tests
15:11 phasefx phasefx-- not fixing the RSS feed
15:11 kmlussier Today might be a good day to learn how to modify tests. Too bad I have a conference call.
15:12 Dyrcona kmlussier: Something new is breaking the tests on something old.
15:12 bshum phasefx: Nah, it's not your fault.  I was noticing that too :(
15:12 tspindler left #evergreen
15:13 kmlussier Dyrcona: Yeah, I know. It's the code I merged.
15:13 Dyrcona OIC.
15:17 kmlussier I would like to take a stab at fixing that one. It looks doable.
15:20 * kmlussier will take a look at it shortly.
15:29 jeff Evergreen docs recommend that you create and use a PostgreSQL super user -- but are there any things that we currently do in Evergreen that require a superuser?
15:29 akilsdonk_ joined #evergreen
15:30 gmcharlt jeff: gut reaction - nothing that we couldn't do with a more limited user; just a matter of taking the time to iterate testing and tweaking permissions
15:30 * jeff nods
15:31 jeff roles and ownership become more important, eg_db_config and database upgrade scripts might still require running as a superuser or database owner or otherwise elevated role...
16:05 * mmorgan will master sharing google docs one day :-/
16:06 mmorgan miker: Think I got that right, now.
16:07 miker mmorgan: heh, thanks!
16:07 miker I can see it!
16:15 jeff JBoyer++ gmcharlt++ miker++ for PostgreSQL application_name support
16:16 miker jeff: makes killing things safer, eh? ;)
16:16 JBoyer jeff++ # I wasn't sure anyone would ever care but me. :D
16:18 jeff JBoyer: I'm guessing that you found it useful for pgbadger and friends?
16:18 jeff miker: haven't gotten to that point of need yet, but yes -- i'm sure it does. :-)
16:19 JBoyer You bet. It will surprise no one that cstore is about 80% of queries, followed by storage at ~17%, and then "the rest"
16:20 jeff JBoyer: are you using csv logs with pgbadger?
16:21 JBoyer No, syslog. I use a different format specifier for the database logs to keep pgbadger happy. It doesn't like the date format we use in the example rsyslog config.
16:21 kmlussier joined #evergreen
16:22 jeff any particular reason for opting to use syslog, or was it just a matter of already having that infrastructure in place already and not wanting to ship something else around for pgbadger?
16:24 kmlussier mmorgan: Looking at your screenshots. Were you searching the same branch in each test and, if logged in, logged in as the same user with the same preferred search library set?
16:26 mmorgan kmlussier: I was not logged in at all. Searching the whole consortium, no preferred library.
16:28 kmlussier Huh...I like the after shot better. It seems odd that the first screenshot breaks up the Beverly Main branch the way it does. I wouldn't have expected it to behave that way.
16:28 mmorgan I didn't either. I agree the after shot looks better.
16:30 JBoyer they were already being collected centrally, this way all I had to do was set up a cron job to pull them down and parse them all.
16:30 JBoyer It's very rare, but I occasionally poke about in them in vi looking for things, I'd rather read syslog logs than CSV. :)
16:31 jihpringle joined #evergreen
16:32 kmlussier mmorgan: On the other hand, I wouldn't have expected Beverly Farms to come before Beverly Bookmobile since I thought there was some OU level sorting in there.
16:34 mmorgan kmlussier: Farms and Bookmobile are at the same level, Main, too, for that matter. I was surprised that Farms floated up, too. I would have expected an alphabetical thing to be going on.
16:36 jihpringle joined #evergreen
16:39 kmlussier mmorgan: Remind me...how does Evergreen work again? ;)
16:40 mmorgan kmlussier: Am I supposed to know that? ;-)
16:48 * kmlussier doesn't want to be quick to discount miker's copy bucket idea, but doesn't have the tuits to think about it at the moment.
16:56 jvwoolf left #evergreen
17:08 mmorgan left #evergreen
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17:45 bmills1 left #evergreen
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19:44 jihpringle_ joined #evergreen
21:39 bshum rhamby++
21:39 bshum For the mac client build :)
22:08 bshum berick++ # latest patches look good, xenial looks good, I'm testing trusty next
22:54 bmills joined #evergreen
22:56 bmills1 joined #evergreen
23:16 bmills joined #evergreen
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23:31 bshum Well isn't that interesting...
23:31 bshum Fresh OpenSRF/Evergreen install on Ubuntu Trusty (14.04) and it dies cause mod perl isn't enabled for apache
23:32 bshum We might need http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=wor​king/OpenSRF.git;a=commit;h=032a964​795df73053d09dca37e62e3e276ce343e for Trusty too
23:32 pinesol_green bshum: [opensrf|Jason Stephenson] LP#1551090: Enable mod_perl2 on Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial Xerus). - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p​=OpenSRF.git;a=commit;h=032a964>
23:32 bshum They must be changing something with apache 2.4 somewhere.... hmm
23:51 * bshum will wait to merge cause he's seeing oddness with his 14.04 VMs
23:52 bshum I built it twice now, and each time I get a server that's having trouble with request timeouts
23:53 bshum cstore issues
23:53 bshum And ejabberd pain
23:57 bshum Peculiar
23:57 bshum I raised ejabberd's max_stanza_size from 200000 to 2000000 (x10) and now things are working faster and better on my 14.04 VM
23:57 bshum For the webstaff anyways
23:57 bshum Super strange
23:59 bshum @later tell Dyrcona Curious to see what you see on a fresh 14.04 VM later.
23:59 pinesol_green bshum: The operation succeeded.

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