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IRC log for #evergreen, 2016-05-10

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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08:36 remingtron @later tell yboston: Do we have a date for the next DIG meeting? June 2 (first Thurs) is Bug Squashing Day.
08:36 pinesol_green remingtron: The operation succeeded.
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09:14 kmlussier Good morning #evergreen
09:14 kmlussier @coffee [someone]
09:14 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of Kenya Peaberry Ruera Estate, and sends it sliding down the bar to edoceo
09:14 kmlussier @tea [someone]
09:14 * pinesol_green brews and pours a pot of Wild Snow Sprout Tea, and sends it sliding down the bar to rashma (http://ratetea.com/tea/wild-tea​-qi/wild-snow-sprout-tea/6447/)
09:15 mmorgan kmlussier: Good Morning!
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09:20 mdriscoll I have setup sip targets for Overdrive and other services that need patron authentication.  Now I am setting up a login for a self check.  Should I create a new institution code for the self check or do people use one code for everything?
09:22 rhamby_ mdriscoll: you're probably fine with one institution code
09:23 mdriscoll rhamby_: Thanks! That makes it simple.
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09:29 jeff I'm going to throw out my usual recommendation that SIP2 is a terrible choice for third party authentication, with the understanding that getting vendors to use/support something else can be an uphill battle, your environment is not my environment, etc.
09:30 mdriscoll jeff: what's the alternative?
09:31 * jeff scribbles notes to self to flesh out the whole thing for handy reference
09:31 jeff mdriscoll: it varies by vendor. in some cases there may be no current alternative, which is unfortunate.
09:32 jeff mdriscoll: in the case of OverDrive, we have libraries using EZproxy auth (where the vendor only gets an opaque token from us representing the patron, and then whatever the patron opts to provide, like email address for holds)
09:32 jeff mdriscoll: we also have libraries using a method where OverDrive sends us a request over HTTPS containing the patron barcode and we pass a go/no-go
09:34 mdriscoll jeff: interesting.  We do run ezproxy servers for our libraries.  SIP2 is not encrypted, true?
09:39 rhamby_ mdriscoll: SIP2 is not encrypted but you can run it over an encrypted tunnel
09:40 jeff not by default. it should be tunnelled over TLS or SSH or another less-common method if passing over the Internet
09:40 * tsbere finds that some vendors have no options to speak of
09:41 jeff The frustrating part is that many vendors default to SIP2 because it's easy/common and what lots of libraries know. There's a cycle in there.
09:41 jeff When asking one vendor why they supported/preferred SIP2, the response was "purely business reasons -- it's what libraries are asking for".
09:41 tsbere At least SIP2 is better than referrer authentication...
09:42 rhamby_ tsbere: or barcode pattern matching /shudder
09:42 jeff That social network with a penchant for spamming all of your contacts now has access to library patron circulation records. This is pretty sad.
09:42 tsbere rhamby_: I prefer barcode pattern matching to referrer. <_<
09:44 jeff referrer or barcode pattern matching are "weak" forms of patron validation but have far fewer privacy implications. This is assuming that any private data maintained in the vendor account is protected by some means other than "just" that used for patron validation, of course.
09:44 tsbere jeff: At least barcode pattern matching isn't broken by browser settings, defaults, security packages, attempts to encrypt authentication before you reach things...
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10:05 jeff mdriscoll: and of course I realized part way through that conversation that you weren't setting up vendor auth via SIP2 new today, but that those were all existing setups, and the new thing today was the self checkout client. :-)
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11:21 dbs kmlussier++
11:30 csharp @blame sleazy vendors
11:30 pinesol_green csharp: It's all sleazy vendors's fault!
11:31 csharp I've been dealing with hardware and collocation vendors all morning :-/
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13:01 bshum chocolate++
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13:29 phasefx any objections (or ideas) to me reworking the IRC page to better promote the web gateway?
13:30 bshum phasefx: +1, for sure
13:30 bshum I think that the link for #evergreen only works if you have a client that can talk to it, right?
13:31 phasefx probably
13:31 jwoodard good afternoon Evergreen!
13:31 phasefx might prompt you to install something
13:33 rhamby_ Probably should just remove the IRC link (have the info but as a non-link).
13:34 phasefx sounds good to me
13:34 bshum Maybe we can add the IRC gateway as a shortcut too on the "Community Links" section
13:35 bshum Something like "Join IRC!" pointed at the web gateway?
13:35 tsbere Wait, we aren't allowed to say "freenode #evergreen" and laugh at anyone who can't find us? ;)
13:37 * bshum puts a link there for now, but will see if anyone thinks of better wording for it
13:38 phasefx bshum: tweaked, https://evergreen-ils.org/communicate/irc/
13:38 bshum phasefx++
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14:59 kmlussier phasefx++ bshum++ #Web site tweaks
15:02 csharp getting some interesting feedback from the "how could we improve PINES" free-form answers from the PINES annual survey
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15:03 csharp one thing we were just discussing here in the office was that there are many complaints about renewals being blocked by holds when there are available copies on shelves in other libraries
15:03 csharp and checkin does trigger the "are there any holds that this copy can fulfill" check and that's what's biting them
15:03 csharp (since a renewal is a checkin)
15:05 kmlussier csharp: You probably want to use the Minimum Available Copy/Hold Ratio in your circ policies for renewals
15:05 berick and check the value of circ.block_renews_for_holds
15:05 berick org setting
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15:14 csharp kmlussier: berick: I'll check those - thanks
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15:15 kmlussier csharp: berick provided a fairly good explanation on how the ratios work in this email thread. http://markmail.org/message/wy6d7cvhcwrvi3tq
15:18 berick i typed so young back then
15:18 csharp awwww
15:18 kmlussier berick++
15:18 csharp kmlussier++ # thanks
15:19 csharp we currently have that YAOUS set to "True" at the consortium level, since we *do* want renews blocked if there's a need for that copy, but it sounds like it's pretty either/or
15:20 berick csharp: right, you'll need the ratios for more nuanced control
15:20 csharp meaning we would want it to block only when there are no other copies that could fulfill the hold
15:20 csharp okay - I'll look at that now :-)
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15:45 dbs Finally added this after rediscovering many variants of it over the years; it's not the best possible method but good enough damnit: http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?​id=scratchpad:random_magic_spells#gener​ating_a_sql_report_with_natural_titles
15:47 tsbere dbs: Instead of the regexp_replace and btrim, why not just use array_to_string?
15:48 * tsbere will admit to not having tried it, but has been using array_to_string recently elsewhere
15:50 * tsbere has now tried both and isn't sure but thinks that something is going wrong with a few titles on the regexp/btrim version in his test set
15:52 tsbere AHA! The ones I am seeing oddities have an array member that is all digits, such as '{1941,"[sound recording]."}', which doesn't play right with the regexp_replace.
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16:01 dbwells dbs: thanks for sharing!  Have your variants included uses of oils_xpath_string()?  That's been our go-to for a while, but also not perfect, so just curious about any +/- you've noted.
16:01 * dbwells will try dbs's method the next time he needs something like this and see how it goes
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16:05 Bmagic has anyone crafted a report that shows bibs where the last item (of your system) was deleted?
16:07 tsbere Bmagic: If what I think you are asking is what you are asking I know *how* to write such a report
16:07 Bmagic well yes
16:07 Bmagic the catch is, I dont want to see the bib if we (our group) of branches still owns a non deleted copy of it
16:08 tsbere Bmagic: Maybe try something like this? "HAVING MIN(acp.deleted::integer) = 1"
16:08 tsbere Any non-deleted copies and min will be 0, not 1
16:08 tsbere (joins and such are left to you)
16:09 Bmagic using the evergreen reports interface, I can mess what that? Aggregate filter?
16:09 tsbere Using that interface I don't know how to
16:09 Bmagic I can easily make the report with sql, I have that covered
16:09 tsbere I would likely need to make a new source for the evergreen interface
16:09 Bmagic I want to make a template that our libraries can use
16:11 tsbere Bmagic: I would rig up something as an embedded SQL "view" in the IDL if you can, linking bib + call number + copy, then group by system or branch as you want/need
16:12 Bmagic I suppose I could do that
16:14 dbs tsbere, dbwells as i said it's probably not the best, if you find better/simpler please update it
16:14 * tsbere forgets his login information <_<
16:15 tsbere I suppose I can give resetting my password a try
16:16 dbwells dbs: sure, just wondering about paths already tread.  Nothing I've tried has been bulletproof, so happy to see something new to try.  Thanks again.
16:17 * dbwells goes to try things out
16:18 dbs array_to_string(XPATH('//marc:da​tafield[@tag="245"][1]//text()', marc::XML, ARRAY[ARRAY['marc', 'http://www.loc.gov/MARC21/slim']]), ' ') -- I guess? sure
16:18 * tsbere has gotten his password reset and changed the snippet
16:19 * tsbere has also updated his email address, now that he has thought about it
16:26 dbwells dbs: borrowed some ideas from what you posted and combined with what we've done recently, it's not bad in testing; pasting...
16:26 pastebot "dbwells" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "another quick title option" (1 line) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/26
16:26 dbwells I've got a report request I'll try it in and see what uglies turn up.
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16:51 dbs tsbere++
16:51 dbs dbwells++
16:52 dbs So happy to finally have that stuff out of my head / your heads and in a communally-accessible spot :)
16:57 jeff it bugs me that pastebot is ephemeral.
16:58 jeff i should fix that.
16:58 tsbere dbs++ for starting the whole thing
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17:17 jwoodard @librarian
17:17 pinesol_green jwoodard: Management:14, Cataloging:13, Acquisitions:14, Reference:9, Circulation:13, Systems:14, Research:18, Custodial:10
17:18 * jwoodard thinks that is a good roll
17:21 * jwoodard thinks the channel needs another original evergreen themed haiku from yours truly
17:31 jwoodard Cannot be deleted, Circulations by Hour of the Day v1.6. Delete outputs please...
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23:56 bshum Updated Wordpress, and decided to change the link for IRC chat to use the https version since it is available.

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