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IRC log for #evergreen, 2016-03-18

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07:10 kmlussier @weather
07:10 pinesol_green` kmlussier: Seekonk, MA :: Clear :: 39F/4C | Wind Chill: 35F/2C | Friday: Sunshine and clouds mixed. High around 55F. Winds W at 15 to 25 mph. Friday Night: Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Low 28F. Winds NW at 10 to 15 mph.
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07:56 bshum Hmm, just noticed that the README still says "Evergreen 2.8 has been tested with..." for both 2.9 and 2.10. Probably a matter of updating that part in master/branching of new series
07:57 bshum That's better, stupid `
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09:36 Dyrcona Are there any good examples of queries using xpath in the database to extract fields from bre.marc?
09:37 jeff if you don't care about the fields potentially being normalized, i go with metabib.real_full_rec
09:37 miker Dyrcona: what are you looking for? there are plenty in the code...
09:38 jeff but since you're asking, you probably care about the values being normalized (i.e., don't want the normalization)
09:38 Dyrcona I just wanted to check that a subfield I added was added correctly.
09:38 Dyrcona I was trying just xpath() and got {}
09:39 Dyrcona The I tried oils_xpath and I get a bunch of spaces.
09:39 Dyrcona I have verified by spot checking a couple of the records in the client.
09:40 miker Dyrcona: select oils_xpath_string('//*[@tag="245"]/*[@code="a"]', marc) from biblio.record_entry order by id desc limit 10;
09:40 Dyrcona Hmm. Works with oils_xpath if I use * instead of tag names.
09:40 jeff Dyrcona: https://gist.github.com/jeff/45d799d50b9f87ad83b5
09:40 miker stuff like that?
09:41 jeff er, almost identical to what miker said. :-)
09:41 * dbwells deletes his version of the same thing
09:41 miker Dyrcona: you have to supply the namespace or use *, or use [local-name()="datafield"] and the like
09:41 jeff dbwells: pretty sure my version was partially based on an example you provided long long ago. :-)
09:41 Dyrcona I was using the namespace with just xpath, but not oils_xpath.
09:45 jeff I am reminded that I would really love to move away from temporary bibs for NCIP requests, and use (now holdable) precats.
09:46 miker Dyrcona: select xpath('//m:datafield[@tag="2​45"]/m:subfield[@code="a"]', marc::xml, ARRAY[ARRAY['m','http://www.loc.gov/MARC21/slim']]) from biblio.record_entry order by id desc limit 10; -- with element names
09:47 Dyrcona Um, y'know....It helps to get the correct tag names. :)
09:47 miker ;)
09:48 gmcharlt :)
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09:48 Dyrcona jeff: The staff client doesn't handle now holdable precats the way I'd like.
09:49 Dyrcona I was doing basically what miker posted, 'cept I had "field" not "datafield."
09:49 Dyrcona 'Cause y'know, I had just used MARC::Record->field()
09:51 miker I wish the perl module had always separated those ... the structure is different, and the "tag < 010" rule is just a USMARC thing
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09:54 jeff Dyrcona: since it's NCIP, mostly i don't care about the staff client, but... in what way would you like them to behave that they do not currently?
09:55 Dyrcona jeff: LP 1485077
09:55 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1485077 in Evergreen "Precat Checkout always ITEM_NOT_CATALOGED even when copy exists" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1485077 - Assigned to Jason Stephenson (jstephenson)
09:56 Dyrcona I should unassign myself....I'm not actually working on that.
09:58 Dyrcona The issue as I saw it, is that even the copies and holds, etc., are placed by the ILL software, staff still have to check it out to the patron in Evergreen.
09:58 jeff oh, in your workflow the final checkout to the patron takes place not in the ILL software, but in the staff client? Interesting.
09:58 Dyrcona Well, yeah... It goes on hold, the patron gets a notice, and staff check it out when the patron shows up.
09:59 jeff In our workflow, all checkouts must be performed in the ILL software.
09:59 jeff (which is in many ways frustrating/annoying, but we get no choice in the matter)
10:00 Dyrcona Yep.
10:00 Dyrcona I think it's "dangerous" to just automagically check things out to patrons.
10:00 jeff We then get notice of the checkout via NCIP and check the item out to the patron in Evergreen automatically based on that NCIP message, etc.
10:00 Dyrcona We've had a few ILLs not get picked up. I had to modify NCIPServer to handle that case.
10:01 jeff Yeah, in our environment the checkout doesn't happen until the patron comes to pick up their item.
10:01 jeff But I remember this bug report now that you've reminded me of it.
10:02 Dyrcona I thought I'd try changing the behavior, but no time.
10:03 Dyrcona So, NCIPServer has the ability to do precats, but with a note in the documentation not to use it. :)
10:03 Dyrcona As for the workflow, that's pretty much how it works with this vendor.
10:05 Dyrcona I suppose I *could* check it out when they send the AcceptItem message, but that's at the time it actually goes on hold.
10:20 jeff yeah, i think checking it out to the patron any time before the patron has the item in hand is probably a bad idea.
10:21 jeff one library that we work with participates in the same statewide system, but without NCIP. since they have a limited number of staff who are trained on the ILL client, and that staff member is only in one or two days a week, their practice is to check the item out to the patron when it arrives.
10:21 jeff then the patron just comes in and picks up the book, without any further action in the ILL software.
10:21 jeff in their case, there are no checkouts (NCIP or manual) in the ILS, just the ILL software.
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10:51 csharp acq--
10:52 gmcharlt demo.evergreencatalog.com is now running 2.10.0
10:52 jeff gmcharlt++
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11:08 Bmagic gmcharlt++ # 2.10  yay!
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11:57 Bmagic added code to bug 1552409
11:57 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1552409 in Evergreen "Invent a page in the OPAC for redirection to referring URL based authentication on external services such as EBSCO" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1552409
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12:02 * tsbere comments on that bug along the lines of "wait, doesn't that not work?"
12:02 tsbere Bmagic: ^^
12:02 * tsbere goes to lunch
12:02 Bmagic tsbere: yes, that was one of the things we addressed with EBSCO in this case
12:03 Bmagic it turns out if it's https -> https, it works
12:03 Bmagic Chrome keeps the referring url headers during a 301 but FF does not
12:03 Bmagic so, we used JS to load the final URL from the opac, which works in FF. The headers are intact and it's working! The electronic resources are accessable!
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12:11 csharp does anyone here use Google Books preview from TPAC?
12:11 dbs csharp: I can't remember if we still have it turned on or not
12:12 dbs I was getting super frustrated because it kept insisting on making HTTP calls even though we were invoking it with HTTPS
12:12 csharp ah
12:12 dbs Nope, disabled atm
12:13 csharp we just got a request from a library staff to add some sort of sample (ala Amazon Kindle) feature, and I was just trying to see if Google Books preview was still in action anywhere
12:13 * dbs tries turning it on to see if they've fixed that yet
12:14 mmorgan We have just turned on the google books preview in our live system http://catalog.noblenet.org
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12:16 dbs Yeah, I think it works fine if you're using HTTP
12:16 * dbs just got "api_8eb3a7c…__fr.js?callback=g​oogle.loader.callbacks.books:63 Mixed Content: The page at 'https://laurentian.concat.ca/eg/opa​c/record/729926?locg=105#gbp_extra' was loaded over HTTPS, but requested an insecure script 'http://books.google.ca/books?id=ELieXMxR1h​4C&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=isbn%3A…25&hl=fr&cd=1&source=gbs_api&jscmd=run​&callback=google.books.__callback._0'. This request has
12:16 * dbs been blocked; the content must be served over HTTPS."
12:17 mmorgan ...after incorporating some changes to the way it opens the preview to get around the http/https thing
12:17 csharp mmorgan: do you have a sample record that shows it?  my test searches aren't yielding results with Google Preview
12:17 csharp dbs: gotcha
12:17 mmorgan looking...
12:18 dbs http://catalog.noblenet.org/eg/opac/record/2279981
12:18 dbs Preview at right, opens in a new tab. That would avoid HTTP/HTTPS issues, yep.
12:19 csharp dbs: perfect
12:19 mmorgan dbs: Thanks!
12:19 mmorgan Good choice!!
12:20 * csharp has that book on his office shelf
12:20 mmorgan There's a small issue in the staff client where it opens a blank xul window, but we're considering that minor.
12:20 mmorgan It does then open the preview in the browser.
12:20 bshum dbs: Oh, never noticed the http/https issue, figures
12:22 csharp mmorgan: when stuff like that doesn't work in the xul client, we just say "Don't do that in the xul client." :-)
12:22 StomproJosh How likely is it that 2.10.1 will be released on April 20th, the first day of the conference?
12:23 csharp we had a similar issue with NoveList Select when we first implemented that
12:23 dbs it's a two-line patch to make the links open in a new tab, fwiw
12:23 mmorgan We're expecting it to work just fine in web client.
12:23 csharp dbs++ mmorgan++ # thanks for your help
12:23 ethomsen Our libraries liked the idea of just having a button that links to the Google Books page rather than embedding the book in the Evergreen page; some had concerns about having the Buy option display on an Evergreen page
12:24 csharp ethomsen: yeah, I can see that being an issue
12:24 csharp "Buy for my library" might be okay :-P
12:41 ethomsen Best selling point for Google Books Preview in catalog -- see if the book has the specific info you want: https://goo.gl/Trb8D6
12:48 * tsbere returns from lunch and continues his launchpad back and forth with Bmagic
13:11 JBoyer I apologize for the lazyweb search, but is there a way in the receipt editor to transform a string to a vertical line? (not rotation. I want to change "word" into "w<br/>o<br/>r<br/>d"
13:16 miker JBoyer: there is, with css. http://www.css3maker.com/text-rotation.html
13:16 JBoyer That works in the xulrunner client?
13:16 miker ah... well. no
13:17 miker :)
13:17 miker well, maybe, with the -moz- prefix
13:18 JBoyer I have rotated blocks of text before to do holds slips that stick out off the shelf, but I'm specifically not looking for rotation. :) (see that short example)
13:18 miker JBoyer: arg... I read that as not wanting to do that
13:19 miker element.innerHTML = ... ?
13:19 * miker ducks
13:19 JBoyer No problem.
13:19 JBoyer If it were for my library I'd have taken care of it with a JS include, I can't tell put "Now have your JS dev write a function to transform this text, put it on your site, and put this in your LSE" ;)
13:20 JBoyer I can't put that *in a ticket* Is how one would english that.
13:21 miker how about: make the container 1 em wide and give it "word-wrap: break-word" in css
13:21 miker er, .5em
13:21 miker http://www.w3schools.com/cssref/tryi​t.asp?filename=trycss3_js_word-wrap
13:22 miker change the width in the style to .5em, click see result, then click try it
13:22 JBoyer That's kind of how I'm leaning given what I've seen online. I was hoping that one of the receipt macros that I can never remember could do it.
13:23 JBoyer In the interest of helping the lib out I'll just do that, once we're all web, all the time, we'll look at other options.
13:23 JBoyer Thanks
13:23 JBoyer miker++
13:23 miker np
14:06 kmlussier Good afternoon #evergreen. How is everyone today?
14:07 * berick is swell
14:09 kmlussier berick: That's a word that really should make a comeback IMO
14:11 berick yeah, I only hear it used sarcastically these days.  (not that I meant it that way).
14:11 kmlussier Since it looks like we don't have a developer meeting for a few more weeks, I wanted to bring up in here the recent list discussion we've had re: submitting a grant request to help fund an Evergreen developer bootcamp.
14:12 kmlussier There seems to be some interest/enthusiasm in seeing it happen, but I'm wondering if there is any interest from some of the developers in becoming instructors/mentors.
14:13 * kmlussier sometimes wishes we could see each other so that she could stare people down. ;)
14:16 berick kmlussier: do you have an idea of what how long the commitment will be, how often the bootcamps will happen, etc.?
14:18 kmlussier My vision (which doesn't have to be the final vision) is that it would require two in-person meetups. One shorter ones among the instructors/leaders to possibly engage in mentorship training, discussing ideas to lower barriers, fleshing out content, etc.
14:18 kmlussier And then a longer time period (a week tops?) for the actual bootcamp.
14:19 kmlussier For now, I just need to know if there is general interest / willingness to help out if we were to get the grant. Not a firm commitment.
14:20 kmlussier I would like to work with a few others to really flesh out the details and then maybe present it to the group. I think it would make a great discussion at the hackfest.
14:20 kmlussier Unfortunately, I can't wait that long before deciding to whether to submit the idea to the granting foundation.
14:22 berick i'm certainly interested, moreso if it's not an extended engagement
14:22 kmlussier Looks like grant winners are announced at the end of June, so nothing could start until then.
14:24 kmlussier berick: I think the extended bit comes in with keeping connectings after the bootcamp. We might want to query folks as to where they need further learning, and maybe have a monthly IRC chat to focus on that area. But I wouldn't expect everyone involved to be available at each chat.
14:25 kmlussier Also, if it increases the amount of new people who are poking around on a regular basis, the questions posed in here will increase.
14:27 * berick nods
14:27 gmcharlt kmlussier: do you envision the grant compensating the mentors/instructors for their time? the commitment called upon to do the boot camp in particular isn't just the week, but time spent preparing for it
14:28 gmcharlt i.e., it's one thing to encourage folks to be generous of their time answering questions in IRC and the mailing lists and so forth
14:28 kmlussier gmcharlt: It could. My idea was to have the grant compensate for travel expenses. But if there's a thought that compensation for time is needed, we could work it in.
14:29 kmlussier My question is who are we compensating? Since we all work for organizations that use Evergreen, does the money go to the organization or to the individual person?
14:30 kmlussier Who, I suppose, would then need to take time off to help out rather than working in their 'official' capacity.
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14:30 jeff each individual's situation is likely to differ.
14:30 kmlussier hmmmm...I'm now thinking back to the old KLCS community partners grant.
14:31 kmlussier That might be a good model to follow. The organization was the partner, the participants reported the amount of time they worked on Evergreen, and the grant reimbursed the organization.
14:32 gmcharlt and cases where the individual is also the organization, as it were, follow the same model
14:32 JBoyer That sounds more workable than having the individual take time off and also get paid for it. The pay might be appreciated, but you still took a bunch of time off work.
14:32 gmcharlt possibly with some "Hi Self, shall I reimburse myself for self activities" silliness
14:34 kmlussier OK, so I'll rephrase my question from earlier. If we work something into the grant that reimburses for the time instructors/mentors put into the bootcamp, would there be interest from some of your to help out? I don't want to make it sound like you're only in it for the money, but I do understand there are other factors that come into play.
14:35 kmlussier I just don't want to submit what I think is a great idea to a granting organization and then withdraw it because the community is too stretched to make it work well.
14:39 JBoyer I would like to, but I'm not certain at this point if I could do it justice.
14:40 csharp adding new developers slows down a project, period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks%E2%80%99_law but I think the payoff is worth it for the long-term
14:40 JBoyer Being some months out probably helps, I suppose.
14:44 Dyrcona csharp: I'm not sure Brooks' Law holds under all circumstances... Gilb's Law on the other hand.... ;)
14:45 Dyrcona At this point, I think Evergreen would definitely benefit from more developers.
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14:48 csharp my point was supposed to be that if we want the project to grow, we need developers to take time out of current development to help train n00bs :-)
14:48 csharp sounds like everyone gets that, though :-)
14:48 kmlussier I think a lot also depends on what we decide to cover. A good first step, probably before the conference, might be to do a small survey among newer code contributors on things they wish they new when they got started.
14:48 Dyrcona csharp: Point well taken, and in the long run, I think that will be time well spent.
14:48 kmlussier csharp: I got it.
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15:37 jeff heh. kinda' hard to search for "anything but english" using the advanced search form -- pretty easy to get "Request URI is too long" :-)
15:37 tsbere jeff: I usually cheat for that.
15:38 tsbere jeff: enter "-item_lang(eng)" into a search box and all
15:38 * jeff nods
15:39 jeff is demo.evergreencatalog.com running with a set of bibs other than concerto?
15:43 JBoyer @hate z39.50
15:43 pinesol_green JBoyer: The operation succeeded.  JBoyer hates z39.50.
15:45 jeff woo. closer to figuring out mods encoding issues.
15:53 gmcharlt jeff: IIRC yes; it has concerto bibs, but also rather more
15:53 csharp @who wants rather more?
15:53 pinesol_green Christineb_away wants rather more.
15:55 Dyrcona @who wants less?
15:55 pinesol_green rashma wants less.
15:55 Dyrcona @eightball is less more?
15:55 pinesol_green Dyrcona: No.
15:59 jeff huh. i thought one of our sample datasets had a bib for "Harry Potter Y El Cáliz De Fuego
15:59 jeff ", but apparently not.
15:59 gmcharlt jeff: feel free to add it :)
16:00 jeff quite possible that i was confused by the fact that we have it in production. :-)
16:00 gmcharlt (to demo.ev.., I mean)
16:00 * jeff nods
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16:02 jeff bre.id 7071 :-)
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16:05 rhamby Am I the only one who has ever wondered what kind of classification system Hogwarts uses?
16:05 rhamby Their library I mean.
16:06 mmorgan I wouldn't imagine it matters. I suspect the books would move around by themselves anyway.
16:06 kmlussier rhamby: Yes, I think you are the only one.
16:06 tsbere rhamby: Based on a little evidence a friend of mine came up with a description of "We know this is on subject X, and it looks good in this place on the shelf" ;)
16:06 rhamby kmlussier: fair enough
16:06 kmlussier @sortinghat rhamby
16:06 pinesol_green Hmm... rhamby... Let me see now... RAVENCLAW!
16:06 kmlussier Seems like a good place for you rhamby!
16:07 kmlussier I would like to think they organize their books based on color.
16:07 rhamby they must have some degree of sorting though or they wouldn't have things in an actual restricted section.
16:07 tsbere kmlussier: So if you dislike a book's shelving location you slap a color changing charm on it? ;)
16:08 kmlussier tsbere: Yes, exactly
16:08 tsbere might be easier to charm the shelves to color the books when they are placed
16:09 jeff revisiting this again... supercat mods record retrieval has proper encoding. all other mods variants (mods{3|32|33}) appear to produce double-encoded output.
16:09 jeff it looks like the only reason mods works is becuase its xsl:output lacks an encoding.
16:09 jeff the others specify UTF-8 and then we're presumably encoding it to UTF-8, or failing to decode it from UTF-8.
16:12 jeff a similar but (i think) unrelated issue exists with SIP2 data based on record_to_mvr, at least under certain circumstances.
16:17 jeff (i suspect OpenILS::SIP::clean_text there)
16:18 jeff you can see the difference comparing the following two:
16:18 jeff good title: https://demo.evergreencatalog.com/opac/e​xtras/supercat/retrieve/mods/record/7071
16:18 jeff mangled title: https://demo.evergreencatalog.com/opac/ex​tras/supercat/retrieve/mods32/record/7071
17:08 rhamby out
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17:34 dbs jeff: more of the Encode.pm fallout I would guess
18:17 jeff dbs: haven't ruled out that possibliity yet. :-)
18:18 jeff there's some other fun with SIP2 messages having their length calculated incorrectly for POSIX::write and how some SIP2 clients are tolerant of that and some are not.
18:19 jeff also, some clients that are tolerant of the length issue are not tolerant of "SIP server went away without replying to our last message (because Encode.pm crashed the SIP2 process)"
18:44 jeff i looked at a bunch of this a while back, but seem to have made poor notes or stored my notes in a poor location.
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