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IRC log for #evergreen, 2015-09-08

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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09:16 Stompro iii-- just saw the note about the III CEO resigning, now the CEO is from the holding company.  https://twitter.com/mbreedin​g/status/637001698049847296
09:22 jeff I'm sure they'll get right on those glaring patron privacy bugs.
09:40 jeff And with the first four characters of Stompro's line, I thought I was in #code4lib
09:45 Dyrcona heh
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10:15 abowling question: are double quotes scrubbed from a title when added to the DB? (<-hoping) I've been looking for examples, but can't find any
10:16 tsbere abowling: They should be, as far as I know
10:17 jboyer-isl abowling: Depends on where you mean. They stay in the marc record for sure, but they're stripped out for the simple record extracts. I assume also for search indexes.
10:17 abowling tsbere: thanks. that's the answer for which i was hoping
10:17 * tsbere figured the entire question was for indexing and such in the first place as we don't mess too much with the MARC itself ;)
10:18 abowling jboyer-isl: basically, yes. just verifying that they won't show up in an opac search
10:18 abowling should have been clearer
10:18 jeff While there are several places where normalization/ingest may make them not present, or remove them from the reporter.materialized_simple_record table that is commonly used for reports, nothing should be automatically removing a double quote character (") from the MARC record, and it should be displayed in the catalog with the characters present.
10:19 jboyer-isl That's what I thought too, I just like to cover all the bases.
10:19 jeff Ask a non-specific question, get a very long general answer. :-)
10:20 jeff Hopefully the answer includes enough context for you to find the specific answer you were looking for! :-)
10:20 abowling jeff: it does. thanks!
10:20 abowling or, um, 42
10:23 abowling and, giving short answers is not something that come naturally to jboyer-isl or me, so i can handle it. ;)
10:24 jboyer-isl nope.
10:24 jboyer-isl (ha!)
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10:51 Stompro Is OCLC down for anyone else?
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10:54 jeff Stompro: i can't load https://www.oclc.org/support/systemalerts.en.html -- so that's pretty telling. :-)
10:54 Stompro Thanks Jeff, that is what I'm seeing also.
11:01 Bmagic There are those who call me, Tim?
11:03 Dyrcona Bmagic++
11:04 Bmagic haha!
11:14 jeff berick: does constrictor live in the random repo now?
11:15 Stompro Dyrcona, do you know where PALS released their NCIP related code that they use for EG <-> VDX?  I've been trying to figure out what is going on from the list archives, but I'm not fully sure.  Did they modify iNCIPit for evergreen?
11:15 berick jeff: yep collab/berick/constrictor
11:15 Dyrcona Stompro: They did modify iNCIPit.
11:15 jeff Stompro: they did.
11:16 jeff Stompro: I encouraged them to contribute their changes back, and there was a pull request, but it was... in need of significantly more work than I was able to make for it at the time.
11:16 Dyrcona There's a github repo isn't there?
11:16 jeff iNCIPit has a github repo here: https://github.com/iNCIPit/iNCIPit/
11:17 jeff I think that PALS deleted their fork, or at least their pull request. Looking now.
11:17 Dyrcona I have several remotes, but none for PALS.
11:18 jeff Nope, they just deleted the pull request. Here's their branch in their fork:
11:18 jeff https://github.com/MNPALS/​iNCIPit/tree/iNCIPit_ver2
11:18 Dyrcona The trouble with NCIP is that you pretty much need a separate implementation for every vendor you talk to, despite it being a standard.
11:19 Stompro jeff++ thank you so much for finding that.
11:19 jeff Beware that many of those changes in that branch seem to be manual copy and paste of changes from upstream, and/or they revert changes from upstream in what seems to be an unintentional fashion.
11:19 Dyrcona Stompro: If you want NCIP version 2, then NCIPServer is a better place to start.
11:21 Stompro I believe that ECRL (East Central Regional Library in MN), the system that the iNCIPit EG->VDX works was done for, is going to keep using it when the switch to hosted soon.  We are in the same boat as them now, and our state ILL people have experience with what they setup.
11:22 Dyrcona And, oddly enough, I am at this very moment in the process of setting up on our production servers.
11:22 Dyrcona Well, if it works for you..... ;)
11:23 Dyrcona That is, I am setting up NCIPServer on our production servers.
11:38 Stompro Dyrcona, what is the deal with the PALS integration branches under NCIPServer working?  Was that just an early attempt by PALS to use NCIPServer, or to work towards that goal?
11:42 Dyrcona Stompro: I believe I made those branches based on a clone made by PALS.
11:43 Dyrcona Stompro: If you look at the master branch, you'll find a commit or two from Alan Rykhus fairly early on.
11:43 Dyrcona Also, the master branch is out of date and only works for Koha at the moment.
11:43 Dyrcona In working/user/dyrcona/better_abstraction, I completely changed the interface between the front and back ends and Koha has not caught up. ;)
11:45 Dyrcona And, I'm not sure that the PALS_integration branch went anywhere.
11:46 Dyrcona In short, NCIPServer is kind of a mess at the moment and probably will be until New Years' or so.
11:50 Stompro Dyrcona, thanks, We were not originally planning on migrating with NCIP support, so we will probably go back to that plan.  Our state VDX/ILL guy was just asking if we were, and I had no idea what the options/issues were, this conversation helps me understand it better.
11:51 Dyrcona If the PALS iNCIPit clone is already working with the ILL product you'll be using, then that's your best bet for now.
12:17 kmlussier Stompro: The last I heard on the PALS integration branch was that they were looking for a way to share the final code. I don't think it ever happened, so the code you're seeing may be out of date.
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12:26 dbs If only there were well-established ways to share open source code... :)
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12:39 jeff kmlussier: so your understanding is that for PALS, the "final" code they went with was NCIPServer and not iNCIPit?
12:42 kmlussier OK, I'm looking at old e-mails, and what I see is that it was modeled on the one from Jonathan Scott. So that would be iNCIPit I guess.
12:43 Dyrcona yep.
12:43 kmlussier I only know this because of a separate side conversation regarding licensing that somehow made it to EOB members last year. Last I saw, we encouraged them to approach the dev community on the best way to share it. I didn't hear anything after that.
12:45 Dyrcona And the working/collab/dyrcona/PALS_integration branch is a merger of working/collab/alrykhus/PALS which brings in one commit that may have had its changed modified away at this point.
12:45 Dyrcona s/changed/changes/
12:47 Dyrcona A couple of us heard privately from them.
12:48 jeff I did spend several hours trying to break down and rebase their single commit.
12:49 jeff ...or even try to identify which commit it was originally based off of.
12:50 Dyrcona Yeah, big, omnibus commits can be a pain.
12:50 kmlussier jeff: Sounds like several hours that could have been better utilized doing something else. :)
12:51 jeff But it was "1 changed file with 667 additions and 692 deletions" in a single commit, and one of the changes was removal of "use strict;", so...
12:52 Dyrcona Not good, unless it is replaced with use Modern::Perl.
12:52 jeff Dyrcona: I had an omnibus pull request on iNCIPit -- but that was something like 38 individual commits. :-)
12:53 Dyrcona I've gotten in the habit of committing smaller changes on my local stuff.
12:53 Dyrcona It's easier to back out and fix screw ups that way.
12:53 jeff Anyway, I wish there were more-better methods of testing things like SIP2 and NCIP, but nothing jumps out at me at the moment. :P
12:54 Dyrcona For NCIPServer, I write some scripts using libwww-perl with request messages in the DATA handle.
12:55 Dyrcona I use LookupUser as a "smoke test" after installing it each time.
13:00 jeff third party black box implementation testing is where i wish there were a good approach.
13:01 jeff but i think at present, that's "record some of the crazy things seen in real life, make tests from there"
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13:02 Dyrcona jeff: I've been copying the messages sent by Auto-Graphics ILL software in some of my tests.
13:03 Dyrcona We could maybe dummy some up to use Concerto data in the future.
13:03 jeff i could contribute some invalid M
13:03 jeff bah.
13:03 Dyrcona But, I'll wait on rangi to finish his changes around Christamas/New Years'. ;)
13:03 jeff i could contribute some invalid XML from INN-Reach :-)
13:03 Dyrcona heh.
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14:39 Stompro access++ http://staplr.org/ musical representation of reference desk activity :-)
14:42 dbs I was supposed to be arriving at that hackfest by now, but my flight has been delayed 4.5 hours now.
14:43 Stompro dbs, That sucks, I hope you get there today yet.  Are you presenting this year?
14:44 csharp Stompro: have you seen "Listen to Wikipedia"? http://listen.hatnote.com/
14:45 Stompro csharp, no I haven't, thanks, I'll try it out.
14:46 csharp maybe we should blend listen to wikipedia with https://twitter.com/congressedits ;-)
14:46 dbs Stompro: yep, I'm on Thursday. Talking about schema.org for basic library data (like: where is your library located? what are your opening hours?), the kinds of things that evergreen generates but nobody else has in their normal library web pages
14:47 dbs But trying to tackle it from a few angles, like building a Drupal theme that makes the schema.org Just Work when people edit opening hours or add an address, that sort of thing.
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14:49 dbs Idea being that "wouldn't it be nice to have something like WorldCat Registry, except with an open license, more complete, and actually accurate and up-to-date data without people having to manually edit it?" (via crawls/pulls instead)
14:52 Stompro dbs, I tried to get our address, hours, and contact info tagged when we did our website redesign, i had the templates edited, then the designers decided to go another route and removed it all.  I should do that again.
14:54 dbs Dang designers!
14:54 dbs If you ever have questions, feel free to fire them my way
15:02 * kmlussier just set up a blog totally unrelated to libraries with schema.org tags and then used it as an example to explain to her son what structured data is.
15:02 Dyrcona kmlussier++ # teaching future generations
15:02 kmlussier Even if I never use the blog, it was totally worth it to see the light of understanding in his eyes.
15:02 dbs kmlussier++ # nice
15:03 mmorgan kmlussier++
15:04 kmlussier Actually, setting up the blog was the thing that made *me* really get it. dbs can talk about it all he wants, but I don't fully understand something until I'm using it.
15:05 dbs kmlussier: fwiw, i'm the same way
15:06 * mmorgan is the same way, too :)
15:13 kmlussier artunit++ #For always going above and beyond to help us troubleshoot Syrup issues. :)
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20:50 pinesol_green` All hail the supreme potentate, bshum has arrived!
21:11 * jwoodard_tablet hails bshum
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