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IRC log for #evergreen, 2015-08-20

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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09:11 Dyrcona It's alive!
09:14 remingtron Dyrcona++ #leading quite fearlessly
09:14 Dyrcona That doesn't mean it is uploaded, just that a fresh install from the tarball works.
09:15 Dyrcona I, uh, don't actually know if I can upload to the webserver, and even if so, dunno what credentials, etc.
09:15 mmorgan Dyrcona++
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09:29 jboyer-isl Dyrcona++
09:31 bshum FYI to web admins, I just gave Dyrcona an account on lupin
09:32 Stompro Dyrcona++
09:32 kmlussier Dyrcona++
09:42 bshum kmlussier: Can you remind me, do we put 2.9 onto the farthest left column of the egdownloads page?  Or do we only move it there after it becomes "stable"?
09:42 kmlussier My recollection is that 2.8 was on the farthest left column when it was still in beta.
09:43 bshum Okay works for me.
09:43 * bshum starts shifting html
09:43 kmlussier Also, I imagine it's easier for you that way, rather than shuffling all the releases around in another few weeks. :)
09:43 bshum "easier" sure
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09:58 berick @praise bshum
09:58 * pinesol_green bshum is one of the few who deserves to be praised
09:58 bshum And downloads page updated
09:59 Dyrcona bshum++
09:59 bshum I took 2.6 off the page, since that's traditionally how it's done.
09:59 bshum Removing that means we likely can also take OpenSRF 2.3 off that page too
10:00 bshum Since all current versions of Evergreen rely on OpenSRF 2.4 now
10:01 kmlussier bshum++
10:03 Stompro Good morning Evergreeners, Has anyone ever setup a batch process to move users from one permission group to another.  We have Child, Youth and Adult permission groups, and I'm just wondering if there are any gotchas to moving patrons between groups based on their age?  Is it as simple as changing actor.usr.profile?
10:04 kmlussier I'm sure there are still several typos in the release notes, but the Authoirty one that made it into a heading is bugging me.
10:04 tsbere Stompro: In theory it is that easy. In practice there may be issues if limits differ between them requiring a re-gen of standing penalties....
10:05 jeff also if you make use of the "juvenile" flag -- there's an existing script that can be used for removing that.
10:07 Stompro tsbere, jeff thanks, I'll look into the standing penalties and I'll make sure I know why we are not using the juvenile flag feature.
10:07 tsbere Stompro: Probably because it is only able to do two levels (juvenile and non-juvenile) instead of the three you have, plus probably isn't exported quite a nicely in places like SIP ;)
10:08 jeff Stompro: to be clear, I'm not advocating that you start using the Juvenile flag if you aren't already, I just wanted to mention it as something you should remember if you DO use it / care about it. :-)
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10:11 bshum kmlussier: Heh, yeah I cringed when I saw that too :)
10:12 berick bshum: hm, the server_upgrade.txt file has to be manually changed each time?
10:13 kmlussier bshum: It will provide me with motivation to copy edit the release notes sooner rather than later.
10:13 bshum berick: I've been doing it since Stompro made LP tickets and code to do it during 2.8 cycle.
10:13 bshum Or maybe it was someone else... and Stompro
10:13 Stompro tsbere, I don't think we will be using any of the standing penalties across those permission groups.. so hopefully that won't be a problem.
10:13 bshum So to avoid having them continually open tickets, I just made it a habit :)
10:13 berick bshum: tell me more of this code...
10:14 bshum berick: By code I just mean, that they provided a patch to update the doc files
10:14 berick ah, gotcha
10:14 berick i'll add a note to the release wiki about that
10:14 bshum I've just been hand editing as I go as a reminder to myself post-release, oh yes, we're on version X now.
10:14 Stompro I've been toying with idea of setting variables in the docs for the version, etc, the stuff that has to be updated.  It makes reading the plain asciidocs harder, but it would make updating the install docs easier.
10:16 jeff Hrm. Does asciidoc offer an ascii output option? Seems almost... wrong.
10:16 kmlussier Stompro: For all of the docs?
10:17 * berick still needs to push his tag branch
10:18 kmlussier Never mind. I just realized my follow-up question was not an issue.
10:18 Stompro kmlussier, I hadn't thought about doing it for all the docs, just the install and upgrade sections.  I don't know how often the specific version is mentioned in the docs in general, and if it would work to have that auto set.
10:18 bshum Dyrcona: When you can push your tag branch for 2.9-beta out, we should forward port any i18n changes to master.
10:19 kmlussier Stompro: No, I don't think it would work to auto set it there. I sometimes see a version mentioned in the context of "this feature is new to 2.x"
10:19 bshum So that it gives time for LP to start churning through changes during the next sync-ups
10:19 kmlussier I try to edit those references out when I happen to be in the file.
10:20 Stompro kmlussier, I've been adding those in when I document features.... why don't you like that info in the docs?
10:20 Dyrcona To git@git.evergreen-ils.org:Evergreen.git
10:20 Dyrcona * [new branch]      rel_2_9_beta -> tags/rel_2_9_beta
10:21 kmlussier Stompro: Because it usually sticks around in the docs from release to release. I think it's useful when it's first documented, but it sometimes looks odd four releases down the road.
10:21 Dyrcona Otherwise, I'm busy setting up coloring book limits. ...
10:21 bshum Okay
10:23 Stompro kmlussier, the reason I find it useful is it helps me know where to look for more info if the docs are not detailed enough.  I know which release to search the commits for, to find more details.
10:24 kmlussier Stompro: I guess it all depends in how it's worded. If it says something like "now, in release 2.x" we have clients that serve you coffee" it's odd to read when you're on 4.x.
10:25 kmlussier If it's a simple statement of which release the feature was introduced, then I think that's fine.
10:25 Stompro kmlussier, That makes sense... I've been adding something like "Released: Evergreen 2.4  in 2012" as more of a tag.
10:25 kmlussier When I say I edit it out, I think it's happened maybe once or twice with a statement that made it seem like it was a new feature.
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10:26 kmlussier Stompro: Yeah, that seems fine to me.
10:26 * mmorgan didn't know the clients could serve coffee. How did I miss that? ;-)
10:26 berick mmorgan: it's decaf
10:26 mmorgan :-(
10:26 kmlussier mmorgan: I'm just going to start putting my personal wishlist into the documentation.
10:26 mmorgan berick++
10:26 kmlussier berick: Boo!
10:27 berick heh, we'll get there!
10:27 pinesol_green [evergreen|Bill Erickson] Forward porting 2.8.2->2.8.3 SQL upgrade - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=ed4280c>
10:27 * mmorgan ponders writing a launchpad bug for a YAOUS: Decaf or Regular...
10:28 kmlussier mmorgan: And for flavors!
10:31 jboyer-isl Much like the MCP's transition from playing Chess to running all of ENCOM, today is the day that Evergreen begins it's transition from mere ILS to Barista Management System that can also organize some books.
10:36 Stompro I'll start a bug about possibly using macros in asciidoc for the install/upgrade instructions to make updating them a little easier.
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11:54 kmlussier Bmagic: I just set bug 1436987 to Confirmed. But that's something you can do too when confirming a bug - just to help get some of those bugs out of New status. :)
11:54 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1436987 in Evergreen "Patron search parameters not retained" (affected: 3, heat: 14) [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436987
11:55 remingtron Dyrcona: I think bug 1484281 is a release-blocker. I marked it as "high".
11:55 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1484281 in Evergreen "authority data may be deleted during propagation with current values of authority.control_set_authority_field" (affected: 1, heat: 10) [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1484281
11:56 remingtron Dyrcona: I just didn't want it to get overlooked.
11:56 Dyrcona If "High" was a release blocker, we'd never release.
11:56 * Dyrcona was actually considering dropping all of the High importance bugs to Medium, 'cause no one seems to be working on them.
11:57 yboston remingtron & Dyrcona: I have a working branch for that authoirty bug
11:57 remingtron Dyrcona: how would you like me to mark it then? release-blocker tag? This bug loses data, so maybe it's "critical"?
11:57 Dyrcona Critical would be better. :)
11:57 yboston remingtron & Dyrcona: I  even have a pgTAP test; I just need to learn how to write code for upgrades :(
11:58 Dyrcona I changed it.
11:58 Dyrcona yboston: push the branch and update the bug, please.
11:58 yboston even without the upgrade code?
11:58 remingtron Dyrcona: okay, thanks.
11:58 yboston Dyrcona: the branch is on working already, for the record
12:00 remingtron yboston: yeah, post your working branch to the bug with a note about the missing upgrade script and maybe someone can add it
12:00 yboston remingtron: OK
12:01 remingtron yboston++ #already has a branch
12:01 Dyrcona better, yet, yboston could write the upgrade script. :)
12:01 yboston Dyrcona: yes, I was goign to get on IRC today to ask about it
12:05 csharp decaf++
12:05 mmorgan I'm trying to test run a Mark Lost trigger and am getting this error in the logs: [2015-08-20 11:43:25] open-ils.trigger [ERR :796:MarkItemLost.pm:35:1440085239182770] trigger: MarkItemLost failed with event NO_SESSION
12:06 mmorgan Any suggestions?
12:06 yboston this is my branch, but I now realize the editor I sued screwed up the line endigns on one fo the files; and thinks every line has a change  http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Everg​reen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/user/ysuarez​/lp1465830_fix_auth_data_propagation_deletes
12:06 csharp mmorgan: how are you testing?
12:06 yboston will add update to the bug
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12:07 mmorgan csharp: in the client, entering a barcode in the Test box for the action trigger.
12:07 csharp yboston: this may help: https://help.github.com/articl​es/dealing-with-line-endings/
12:08 Dyrcona decaf--
12:08 csharp @karma decaf
12:08 pinesol_green csharp: Karma for "decaf" has been increased 1 time and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 0.
12:08 csharp heh
12:08 RoganH decaf--
12:08 csharp decaf++
12:08 csharp decaf++
12:08 csharp decaf++
12:08 csharp ha!
12:08 yboston csharp: thanks, but this is the first time it has happened, though I think ti was because of a new editor I was using. Actually it was Github's Atom editor. My regular Mac editor has never caused this so far
12:09 RoganH csharp: Ah, but I have sleepless dogs so at 2 am the victory will be mine.
12:09 yboston csharp: I will still look over the link
12:09 Dyrcona I should have brought a knife for my salad.
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12:10 csharp yboston: maybe the editor composes file with CRLF line endings by default in an attempt to be helpful to windows users :-)
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12:11 yboston csharp: that is what I need to look at; I used Atom because it handled coloring PG comments better than my editor (textmate)
12:13 * Dyrcona opines: It is 2015 and we're still dicking around with line endings...Seriously?
12:13 Dyrcona We're doomed as a species.
12:14 mmorgan ...and we have no knives for our salads. ;-)
12:15 * bshum enjoys Sublime Text
12:16 RoganH yboston: can you customize the highlighting in textmate like you can in bbedit?
12:17 yboston RoganH: maybe
12:18 RoganH yboston: bbedit (mac) has a plugin like sturucture so you can build your own highlighting, share them with other folks, etc...
12:19 RoganH yboston: and I apologize for butchering english spellings there.  gah, I'm leaving in ten minutes, thank goodness.
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13:05 jeff seems downright dead in here compared to yesterday's hustle and bustle. :-)
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13:08 gsams I'm not dead!
13:08 bshum I see your patch, and raise you 20.
13:15 kmlussier Yesterday was fun. We should do it again sometime soon! :)
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14:00 kmlussier I know the volume/copy editor code went into master, but is it on webby yet?
14:01 kmlussier Oh, never mind, I see it now.
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14:10 TanyaP no EOB meeting today?
14:11 kmlussier TanyaP: No, I saw that bshum canceled it on the eob list.
14:12 TanyaP ok. thanks.  Do you know if the EOB has looked at the budget, sponsorship, and logo at all?
14:12 kmlussier Is there a way to add a volume in the web client? I'm not seeing anything, but maybe I'm missing something obvious.
14:13 kmlussier TanyaP: hmmm...I haven't been paying close attention, but I thought I saw the budget approved? But I might have been dreaming or remembering the last conference.
14:14 kmlussier bshum / yboston: Could either of you answer TanyaP's questions?
14:14 kmlussier TanyaP: While you're organizing the conference, you might want to sign u p for the eob list since conference stuff sometimes comes up there.
14:16 kmlussier Actually, it's not a bad idea for anyone to sign up even without the conference. Just to keep our eye on things. :)
14:19 miker kmlussier: re webby, vol/ copy is not complete in master. it's in heavy flux right now, too. just as a head's up...
14:20 kmlussier miker: OK, good to know. Do you know if we'll have a nice one-click Add Volumes link in the header like we currently do?
14:21 kmlussier miker: Sorry to put you on the spot while things are still in flux, but enquiring minds want to know. :)
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14:25 yboston TanyaP: are you still around?
14:27 miker kmlussier: I'm not in front of a computer atm, so I lack the context to answer... sorry
14:28 kmlussier miker: No problem
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14:33 kmlussier yboston: I don't know if TanyaP's still around, but do you have a moment for a quick pm?
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14:51 csharp argh - more acq issues...
14:51 csharp EDI message processing is failing with the error "Can't call method "id" on an undefined value at /usr/local/share/perl/5.14.2/O​penILS/Application/Acq/EDI.pm line 855."
14:52 csharp that line is within the cancel_lids subroutine in that file, and I can't seem to figure out why it's even being called, and why it's failing when there isn't a cancel_reason present
14:53 kmlussier csharp: Is the EDI message an order response with a cancellation?
14:53 csharp in any case, the effects of this is that multiple EDI accounts with the same vendor are downloading and trying to process the same file every night and failing, causing a proliferation of unhelpful EDI messages
14:54 csharp kmlussier: I don't think so
14:54 csharp still trying to suss this out
14:54 csharp god I hate acq
14:54 csharp having to learn to read EDI strings to debug this kind of thing is just icing on the cake
14:55 csharp the remote file that's being evaluated worked once, and since then it's failing every time it gets processed
14:56 csharp apparently the duplicate detection needs to read the EDI before deciding whether the file has already been retreived
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16:01 Stompro Question about billing for item replacement + processing fee?  Is there any way to vary the amount of time before we bill based on the circ rule?  Or is it just controled by running the lost/long-overdue A/T?  We are used to it being tied to the circ rule in Millennium.
16:03 Dyrcona Stompro: It's done by A/T
16:03 Dyrcona Nothing in the circ matrix about it.
16:03 Stompro We are used to charging a one time overdue fee at the same time we charge for replacement and processing.  If they bring back the item, the replacement and processing fee go away and they just owe the fine.
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16:05 Dyrcona Stompro: Well, there's a setting to control if overdues are voided for lost items, so you can charge overdue + lost + processing fee.
16:06 Dyrcona Stompro: You can also control what is voided at checkin.
16:06 kmlussier You can also enable a setting that adds a new overdue fines that have accrued since the item was set to lost.
16:06 mmorgan So the fine part could be in the circ matrix, right?
16:07 Dyrcona The overdue fine is determined by the circ_matrix: recurring_fine_rule
16:07 Dyrcona And max_fine_rule
16:11 mmorgan So the recurring fine/max fine could be set up to apply at the same time the Lost trigger runs. Adding all those charges at the same time.
16:11 mmorgan Then the options to void the lost billing and processing fee when the item is returned could be true, leaving only the fine.
16:12 Dyrcona mmorgan: No, it's better letting them accrue.
16:12 kmlussier mmorgan: That's good problem solving there!
16:13 Dyrcona I seriously do not want yet another logical branch in fine calculation that does something totally different from the current code, all hanging off of a setting.
16:13 Dyrcona The code is messy enough already.
16:14 Stompro The only problem is that we have varying grace periods.  So we want DVD's to get billed 14 days after overdue, we want books to be billed 21 days after overdue...
16:14 mmorgan Why another setting?
16:15 Dyrcona mmorgan: Because not everyone wants to have fines generated that late, so there would need to be a setting to have the newly described behavior occur.
16:16 kmlussier But I don't think mmorgan is suggesting something that changes the code.
16:16 kmlussier Unless I misunderstood.
16:16 mmorgan When setting up a recurring fine rule, couldn't the recurrence interval be set to something like 14 days?
16:17 mmorgan I wasn't suggesting a code change.
16:17 Stompro Yes, I don't think having the single $2 fine is the problem, that is in the rules.  But the A/T move to lost seems like it can only be run based on x number of days from due date.
16:18 Dyrcona It could be, but then if it is a day or two late, fines are not calculated at all.
16:18 Dyrcona Or, really, if it is late less than 14 days, no fines.
16:18 Stompro Where X is the same for the whole org unit.
16:19 mmorgan Stompro: Do you use different circulation modifiers for books vs dvds?
16:19 kmlussier Stompro: So you want the lost fee to apply at different intervals depending on the circ rule that's in play?
16:20 Stompro mmorgan, Yes, that is what I'm looking to do.  We do have different circ modifiers for books vs dvds.
16:21 kmlussier OK. I can't think of a way to do that.
16:22 Stompro But we can adapt also.  .... but the more I think about it, the more it really doesn't matter.  Since if they bring it back... I think we just like the scare factor of sending out a bill with the replacement charge on there, a few weeks after the due date.... Maybe we add in a second overdue or something.
16:22 mmorgan Stompro: For our overdue notices, we have triggers that use filters so that this trigger runs for items checked out at this ou, etc. I expect the same sort of thing could be done for the Lost trigger.
16:22 mmorgan Using a filter to say only run this trigger for items with this circ modifier.
16:23 * mmorgan has not actually done this.
16:24 Stompro That would be great.  Is that in the action_trigger_filters.json?
16:24 Stompro Can I see what your overdue filter looks like?
16:26 Stompro Do you setup a seperate hook for each group?
16:27 mmorgan We have a bunch of separate filters, like a_t_filters.7_day_od.json, etc. I'll grab a sample...
16:27 kmlussier Shouldn't MARC Batch Import/Export (aka Vandelay) be listed on this page? http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.ph​p?id=dev:browser_staff:dev_sprints:2
16:28 bshum kmlussier: It is, it's squashed with the z39.50 section and crossed out?
16:28 bshum Probably should be its own bullet
16:28 bshum Likely bad wiki syntax
16:28 pastebot "mmorgan" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "a_t_filters.7_day_od.json" (14 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/26
16:28 kmlussier bshum: Ah, I see. Last one.
16:29 bshum Yep
16:29 bshum </dev> instead of </del> for two lines
16:29 bshum Well lots of them
16:29 bshum Like all of them in that block
16:30 bshum That's what's causing the wrong display
16:30 mmorgan Stompro: each filter is called by the crontab entry that runs the trigger
16:30 * bshum assumes jeff is fixing it
16:31 mmorgan Stompro: We don't have separate hooks.
16:31 jeff it was a markup error -- fixed.
16:31 bshum jeff++
16:31 hopkinsju Yo kids! Who's got a bunch of authority records loaded into their system that they want to show off?
16:31 hopkinsju First week of school here in MO, time for show and tell.
16:33 mmorgan Stompro: Adapting can be good :) Current practices are often the result of how the current system works.
16:34 kmlussier jeff++
16:39 Bmagic anyone work with MARC in perl? I get utf8 "\xC5" does not map to Unicode at /usr/lib/perl/5.14/Encode.pm line 174. and it quits. I need MARC::Record to continue to the next record. gmcharlt ?
16:41 Dyrcona Bmagic: Wrap that in an eval{}
16:41 Bmagic ah! Of course
16:43 Stompro Ahhh, ok, so each filter is in it's own file, and you use the  --custom-filters= to select it.  It is beginning to make sense.
16:43 Stompro mmorgan, thanks for the info.
16:43 Stompro mmorgan++
16:53 jeff The Merit Support Center has updated Service Request [number]. You may view the full request by visiting: [url that doesn't work]
16:53 jeff [we are not including the actual content of the update here because that would be too useful]
16:53 jeff [and probably "omg insecure" or something, we're not really sure.]
16:57 jeff and... wrong channel. sorry! :-)
16:57 jeff </rant>
17:06 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
17:09 mmorgan </day> Good Night All!
17:09 Stompro mmorgan, excellent, since the grace period is in the circ, it will be easy to filter on that.  I think this will work without too much pain.
17:10 Stompro And we don't need to ever change the way we do things  tradition++
17:10 mmorgan Stompro++
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19:33 pinesol_green [evergreen|Ben Shum] LP#1486800: Remove Penalty.pm from MANIFEST - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=062365c>
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