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IRC log for #evergreen, 2015-07-30

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
02:16 eady joined #evergreen
05:00 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
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08:21 jeff hah. thought i was seeing something Really Odd.
08:22 jeff enabled SIP msg64_hold_datatype = barcode, did some testing with (a possibly hacked up copy of) tsbere's PHP SIP2 client. requested Hold and UnavailableHolds summary types in a patron information message.
08:23 jeff the only item barcodes i was seeing in the response were not items i had holds on... but they were items that i would not be able to renew because someone ELSE had a hold on them.
08:23 jeff This seemed like a Really Odd failure method until I realized that something was amiss and that the details I was getting were overdue items (which just so happened to be overdue because they had not been able to be renewed, etc)
08:24 jeff Anyway, all better.
08:24 jeff And if I didn't break it in the first place, I'll pass on a patch to tsbere. :-)
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09:10 Dyrcona perl--
09:10 Dyrcona An empty hashref is a true value: i.e. "{}" evaluates to true.
09:11 csharp ew
09:11 Dyrcona I knew that, but I didn't realize that is what I was getting back from a lib when a value was not set.
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09:33 jeff for those following along at home, i was missing at least one relevant PHPSIP2 commit: a27e927 Fix patronInformation summary field setting.
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09:42 Dyrcona "And, there was rejoicing."
09:42 Dyrcona oops. misquoted.
09:44 Dyrcona For those following along at home or not: I added some defensive code to NCIPServer and it now returns a Problem message when identifier fields are empty, instead of causing a crash in Actor.pm at line 1140 or 1134, depending on your release.
09:45 Dyrcona 'Cause Evergreen does too much of this: $result = $editor->search_some_object({cri​terion=>value1,etc=>more})->[0];
09:46 Dyrcona And, hey, an empty barcode causes a nice 'can't derefence an undefined value' error.
09:59 miker jeff: I think the bigger problem is ... PHP
10:02 Dyrcona heh.
10:02 jeff so, success displaying useful and accurate hold information on new self checkout kiosk software version.
10:03 jeff my patron of course had an interesting quirk -- two holds on the same bib.
10:03 jeff which tripped up the software.
10:04 Dyrcona Of course....
10:04 jeff and for some reason i can only get HALF of the client-side "cancel hold" interface to enable. it's possible that i've not enabled server-side bits that may be required for that. wasn't part of the goal for today, i just got curious. :-)
10:12 jeff parsing of bills is still not working well.
10:13 jeff after working on "here's the fine item details per the supplemental document" and having the vendor come back with "oh, we don't support that", now it turns out that they want to support that.
10:13 jeff (their name was on the document i was targeting)
10:13 jeff apparently their devs lamented that we lacked predictable delimiters. i explained why. :P
10:13 jeff anyway, progress!
10:23 Dyrcona Billing is not....fun.
10:24 kmlussier Dyrcona: That's a bit of an understatement
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11:02 jeff Fixed parsing of bills. Since there only delimiter is space, and we have spaces in our billing types, it requires that we specify every billing type we care about in the format string.
11:04 miker jeff: who needs human-friendly strings, really? [answer: not your selfcheck vendor]
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11:09 jeff miker: i remember being so happy to see a somewhat sane delimiter scheme in the supplemental doc, then pretty sad when the vendor whose name was on the doc said that their systems couldn't handle that.
11:09 jeff so i'm happy and at the same time exasperated to be told by same vendor that they really prefer delimiters now.
11:10 jeff NCIP to the left of me, SIP2 to the right, here I am...
11:13 miker :)
11:15 Dyrcona "stuck in the middle with SIP3."
11:15 Dyrcona ;)
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11:46 Dyrcona Technology sucks.
11:46 Dyrcona Ima go raise some goats.
11:47 jeffdavis goats++
11:50 kmlussier Dyrcona: I've heard goats are a great natural method for getting rid of poison ivy.
11:50 Dyrcona So have I.
11:51 jonadab I think you can also use them to get rid of garden plants.
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11:51 kmlussier My daughter thought this would be a greaty way to convince me to get a pet goat since I've been complaining a lot lately about the poison ivy I picked up while gardening.
11:52 kmlussier If they ate the weeds with the garden plants, I wouldn't complain.
11:53 Dyrcona On a more practical note, I think I'll mosey across the street to get some lunch.
11:53 RoganH kmlussier: if you get a goat, be warned the male ones pee everywhere
11:54 kmlussier RoganH: I'll keep that in mind.
11:54 RoganH kmlussier: they like to mark their scent on their faces and then if they like you rub against you to mark you
11:54 * kmlussier imagines her neighbors' reaction when they see a goat wandering around in the back yard.
12:05 RoganH https://i.imgur.com/PkCqPMq.jpg
12:05 * berick chuckles
12:06 berick was expecting a goat picture
12:08 RoganH No goats. I've interacted with goats enough to not get one.  Chickens are great to have, goats are pain.
12:11 csharp RoganH++
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12:22 jeff oh isn't that lovely. they're posting credit card payments as cash now.
12:23 jeff where "they" are the self checkout kiosks that have recently been upgraded.
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12:35 gsams RoganH++
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12:37 Dyrcona jeff: Does Evergreen's SIP2 actually differentiate? You'd think I'd remember having started the code for that.
12:37 jeff Yup.
12:37 jeff bug 1013263
12:37 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1013263 in Evergreen "Support SIP payment type 02 - "credit card"" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013263
12:39 jeff i wrote, you tested and signed off, lebbeous committed since neither you nor i could push to master at that point in time. :-)
12:39 jeff I seem to recall it was only a few lines of code.
12:57 Dyrcona Oh, three years ago... No wonder I don't remember. :)
13:00 kmlussier Funny...I tend to recall bugs from 3 years ago better than I remember ones from a month ago.
13:04 jboyer-isl So, about pgTAP tests; are we assuming the use of pg_prove, or should test scripts include all of the \pset and \set boilerplate? Only pg_prove is referenced in the documentation but most of our tests have all of the boilerplate, so...
13:05 jboyer-isl I'd like to dump the lines we don't need, unless there was a decision that we do need them.
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13:10 RoganH I need to invent a SIP wheel of doom so I can spin it each day and see what I think SIP will do today.
13:15 jboyer-isl RoganH: My favorite experience was when a PC time management company wrote their own SIP communication library that would recognize field codes ANYWHERE. Made capitalized addresses much more "exciting" because it would also crash when it didn't understand what it was getting.
13:15 jboyer-isl No testers like live testers.
13:15 RoganH jobyer-isl: I'm not sure if that makes me want to laugh or cry.
13:16 jboyer-isl Not having it be my problem made me want to laugh, having written my own SIP parsing library just made me mad about it. (ITS SO EASY, THAT
13:16 jboyer-isl 'S WHY THE SECURITY IS BAD, SIMPLICITY!)
13:18 tsbere I liked the vendor that had their own parser that could only recognize a given field once per message.
13:18 tsbere They were.....unhappy when I pointed out that the standard includes repeating fields.
13:18 jboyer-isl Hah, and a lot of them, if memory serves.
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13:20 tsbere They insisted that I couldn't use a repeating field for what I was using it for because the standard didn't *do* that. Then I pointed them at several in the standards doc they were using...
13:23 jboyer-isl Although, come to think of it my toy code didn't take that into account properly either. At least I wasn't trying to charge anyone to use it.
13:24 jeff so: tips of the day... a basic AAA membership card behaves enough like a Visa card for smoke testing credit card payments at a self-pay kiosk
13:24 miker jeff: nice
13:24 jeff and tip 2: if you have someone remoting into a kiosk to work on it and you want the kiosk obviously out of service with screen obscured, grab your nearest clean library T-shirt
13:25 jboyer-isl jeff++ # lifehacks
13:28 Dyrcona jeff++ #libraryhacks
13:30 miker "protect your kiosks with this one weird 'trick'"
13:30 Dyrcona heh.
13:32 Dyrcona "Well, bother!" said Pooh. "I get 408s from Dell.com."
13:33 Dyrcona jeff: Does your AAA card have the American Express prepaid logo on it? Mine does.
13:34 jeff mine does not. i know that certain membership levels have the ability to be used as an emergency gas card, etc.
13:35 Dyrcona I never put anything on the prepaid bit, so don't use it, but that is a handy tip.
13:35 jeff if everything else is working correctly, mine fails with SERV NOT ALLOWED
13:35 Dyrcona And, since Dell.com is flaking out on me, I'll have to find something else to do.
13:36 jeff which saves me from needing to 1) re-bill my patron / test patron, 2) void the charge before settlement or 3) remove/zero the payment in the ILS if things DO test well.
13:36 jeff Once that part works, I usually do a $1.23 or similar payment and consider it the cost of knowing things are working.
13:37 jeff (er, to be clear i'd usually have to do 1, 2, AND 3 above, not OR)
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13:40 Dyrcona And, I don't see how the 408 could be my fault. I'm not on the wireless at the moment. :)
13:48 * Dyrcona mumbles something about "magic beans."
13:48 jboyer-isl re: pgTAP, I'm assuming no comment means "sure, do that" and I'll be dropping the noise from my upcoming tests. :)
13:48 bshum @dessert add Lemon Cupcakes
13:48 pinesol_green bshum: The operation succeeded.  Dessert #38 added.
13:49 bshum @dessert add Key Lime Cheesecake
13:49 pinesol_green bshum: The operation succeeded.  Dessert #39 added.
13:49 phasefx jboyer-isl: I think the live tester is using pg_prove, but psql should work just as well I thought
13:50 csharp @dessert add A Moon Pie and some RC Cola
13:50 pinesol_green csharp: The operation succeeded.  Dessert #40 added.
13:51 jboyer-isl phasefx: The README in the tests dir also only talks about pg_prove, so I figured that's what would see the most use.
13:52 phasefx jboyer-isl: cool deal
13:53 phasefx jboyer-isl: looks like psql can run them, but pg_prove actually parses and summarizes the test results
13:54 phasefx but does that require the boilerplate you mentioned?
13:55 phasefx oh I see.. those psets make it look nice if using psql
13:56 phasefx could put that stuff into a common file and \i it
13:56 kmlussier @dessert 40 csharp
13:56 * pinesol_green grabs some A Moon Pie and some RC Cola for csharp
13:59 jboyer-isl phasefx: yeah, the boilerplate is just for formatting, pg_prove sets all of that ahead of time. I was hoping to just say "we suggest using pg_prove, so do that" and then we can ignore all of that, simple tests could have 4 necessary lines vs a dozen lines of setup + 4 lines of work. (line # are estimates, of course)
13:59 phasefx sounds good to me
14:01 bshum @dessert 40 csharp
14:01 * pinesol_green grabs some Moon Pie and some RC Cola for csharp
14:01 bshum Better :)
14:02 jboyer-isl Cool.
14:05 csharp bshum: thanks ;-)
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14:31 rfrasur Our Exploding Kittens game arrived today including the NSFW deck.  It is tres magnifique.
14:34 maryj :D
14:35 rfrasur (larry.in.gov?)
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14:46 jboyer-isl rfrasur: There's a larry, moe, and curly, depending on how our traffic leaves the internal network. (at least someone gets to have fun with machine names around here.)
14:47 rfrasur Well, you know I love THAT.
14:47 berick i was really hoping for larry, darryl, and darryl
14:47 rfrasur berick++
14:48 jboyer-isl berick: I almost said the DNS would be too much trouble to get working, but as long as they're not web servers I bet that could work, heh.
14:48 jboyer-isl berick++
14:49 berick :)
14:49 rfrasur I wonder if I can justify getting all the expansion packs for Cards Against Humanity including Crabs Adjust Humidity with our collection development policy.
14:50 * phasefx can't even say some of the product names in channel without cringing
14:50 Dyrcona rfrasur: You're the director, are you not?
14:51 rfrasur Dyrcona: I am, but I like to pretend I have more oversight than I do.  Fake accountability.
14:53 rfrasur Would it be more responsible to get expansion packs for Settlers of Catan...or get some other versions of Munchkin?  So many choices that make me job more interesting that making sure all the vouchers are sequential.
14:54 phasefx how about more base games?
14:54 rfrasur For instance?  And don't overestimate what I know about games.  Very little.  I'm an enabler at best.
14:54 phasefx Love Letter is simple and fun
14:55 Dyrcona Hanabi!
14:55 rfrasur looking them up
14:55 phasefx flux
14:56 rfrasur I have thought about flux
14:56 phasefx qwirkle
14:56 jboyer-isl There's even a Fluxx board game now, but we haven't unwrapped it yet to know if it's any good.
14:56 rfrasur lol, qwirkle.  I'd forgot about that.
14:57 phasefx guillotine
14:57 * phasefx is thinking of some kid friendly games
14:57 * bshum is boring
14:57 rfrasur They CAN be kid friendly but don't have to be.
14:58 bshum "How about a nice game of chess?"
14:58 phasefx dixit
14:58 rfrasur Me too, bshum.  I just like other people having fun.  Oh, but Exploding Kittens is pretty great for a short card game.
14:58 * mmorgan reads backscroll, tries to ponder what it all means...
14:58 Dyrcona bshum: "No. Let's play Global Thermonuclear War."
14:58 mmorgan Each morning on the way to work I pass a house with three goats in the yard.
14:59 jboyer-isl Carcassone is also good, though scoring can be complicated.
14:59 mmorgan The fence has a sign: Larry, Moe and Curly.
14:59 phasefx ratuki (better than slap jack :)
14:59 bshum Dyrcona: :)
14:59 rfrasur Hmm, we did register for International Games Day and Fluxx is one of the participants.  We may wait to see if we get it for free.
14:59 rfrasur lol, mmorgan :D
14:59 Dyrcona heh. for the goats
15:00 rfrasur Oooooh, Qwirkle is what RoganH brought to Cambridge.
15:00 RoganH Fun game.
15:00 rfrasur Yes, it was.
15:00 RoganH Exploding kittens has started shipping so I'm looking forward to getting the decks in.
15:00 phasefx We Didn't Playtest This
15:01 rfrasur It's cool RoganH.  We got ours today.  The box for the main game is pretty awesome.
15:01 rfrasur lol, Guillotine is funny.  You win by getting a head.
15:02 rfrasur Ugh, Sushi Go! just makes me hungry.
15:03 rfrasur bshum, chess added
15:03 phasefx rfrasur: I can rattle off a lot more :)
15:03 rfrasur I'm checking them all as you say them.
15:04 * phasefx played Clue for the first time recently (past year)
15:04 rfrasur I love Clue.
15:04 phasefx I had no idea what I had been missing
15:04 rfrasur all the murder
15:04 RoganH Kill Doctor Lucky
15:04 phasefx I haven't played this one, but I'm interested: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/251​1/sherlock-holmes-consulting-detective
15:05 RoganH It's Clue in reverse.
15:05 * phasefx played the firefly version of clue :)
15:05 rfrasur jboyer-isl, is Carcassonne similar to Catan as far as gameplay goes?
15:05 RoganH phasefx: The Sherlock Holmes game is good.  If you get it and like it they're about to reprint the Fury of Dracula and you might like it too.
15:05 phasefx RoganH: rock
15:06 RoganH rfrasur: no, they play very differently
15:06 rfrasur Okay
15:06 RoganH rfrasur: but they're both very popular, Carcassone is a tile laying game rather than resource management, the only resource you manage is putting meeples down and hoping you can lay tiles in a way to grab points and get them back to get more points
15:06 jboyer-isl Not really. You can only "claim" a tile if you put it down on this turn (easy) but you can also claim fields which then only scores points based on how many completed cities it touches (complicated)
15:07 jeff 86% of self checkout terminals are upgraded. Phew.
15:07 rfrasur Hmm, kinda sounds like Go.
15:07 jboyer-isl And there can be points awarded to multiple people when more than one claimed resource become joined into one.
15:07 RoganH And there are short versus long term rewards in Carcassone.  Do you go for the long value of a field that could pay off big or a complicated city or grab quick road points, etc....
15:07 * phasefx also played candy land recently.. that.. is not a game
15:08 rfrasur phasefx, it is if you're VERY young.
15:08 RoganH And everything jboyer-isl said is true too.  :)  OK, maybe I need to bring Carcassone to Raleigh
15:08 phasefx rfrasur: if you make your own rules for it :)
15:08 jboyer-isl Candy Land is dice-rolling solitaire with a board game visual aide.
15:08 RoganH rfrasure: my middle child played Candy Land when she was seven and thought it was awful.  But she grew up playing things like Carcassone and Catan.
15:09 kmlussier RoganH: Seven is too old for Candy Land. Four is a better age
15:09 rfrasur I actually think Candy Land for 3 year olds who are learning to roll dice instead of throwing them and not crying when they don't get the playing piece they really wanted.
15:09 rfrasur think Candy Land "is great" that is.
15:09 RoganH kmlussier: she was going to a therapist who wanted her to play it.  I wasn't involved in this decision.
15:10 jboyer-isl RoganH: The iPad version is great for new players because the scoring is automatic. Not as great to pass around the table though.
15:10 rfrasur RoganH, bring all the games to NC.
15:10 RoganH kmlussier: The therapist asked me where she learned terms like "probability curve" from
15:10 RoganH jboyer-isl: agreed, I like it on the iPad too
15:10 RoganH rfrasur: I'm driving to Raleigh so I can bring more games :)
15:11 rfrasur We're driving too (so mi amor doesn't have to get in a plane and go golfing).
15:11 RoganH lol
15:11 * rfrasur would rather fly over the mountains than drive through them.
15:11 rfrasur oh...and CAN go golfing.
15:12 rfrasur I'm just skipping words today.
15:12 rfrasur Uh, there's a Batman Love Letter.
15:13 RoganH rfrasur: ug
15:13 rfrasur We're getting the original...or what looks like the original.  Based on The Tempest, I guess?
15:15 RoganH rfrasur: it's a vaguely renaissance/medieval setting ... as much as you can depict in a handful of cards
15:15 rfrasur Right.
15:17 jwoodard Ok I have a dev request for Evergreen.
15:18 jwoodard Can we get a built in Chess interface?
15:18 rfrasur lol, NO.
15:18 rfrasur My staff would get distracted.  I would get distracted.
15:18 jwoodard ...didn't hurt to ask. >_>
15:18 rfrasur Truth be, however....if you fund a development project....
15:18 jeff Your account balance is $3.00. Would you like to pay these fines now, or challenge the ILS to a game of chess?
15:19 rfrasur EG IS open-source after all.
15:19 phasefx rfrasur: we had tetris once, embedded in the staff client
15:19 rfrasur jeff++
15:19 rfrasur phasefx, that would be so much worse for me than chess.
15:19 jwoodard jeff++
15:20 phasefx rfrasur: it had some developer photos as the background :)  they made me remove it
15:20 rfrasur We could put it in our development priorities survey for Evergreen Indiana.  See if people took it seriously :D
15:20 berick $scope.iframe_url = http://www.firstpersontetris.com/
15:21 * berick wipes hands, call it a day
15:21 jboyer-isl berick wins.
15:21 jwoodard "Run the report Evergreen ILS." " I'm sorry, jwoodard. I'm afraid I can't do that."
15:21 rfrasur phasefx++
15:21 jboyer-isl "I would like this report with X, Y, and Z" "The only winning move is not to play."
15:21 rfrasur berick++
15:22 rfrasur jboyer-isl, I can envision how that'd go over with some of our libraries.  "I TOLD you reports were evil!  The DEVIL, I say!  The DEVIL!"
15:24 jeff oh. 86% of kiosks are upgraded, but 14% still have a summer reading t-shirt over the top of them. I think I'll go fix that.
15:24 jwoodard "I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in reports. And I want to help you."
15:24 jeff Then: lunch.
15:24 rfrasur lol, jeff....kiosks with summer reading t-shirts
15:24 berick lol at taking them off
15:25 * rfrasur laughs
15:25 jeff rfrasur: you missed it earlier -- that was our solution for making them unavailable so that they could go through a 1-2 hour upgrade without having to move them off the floor, etc.
15:25 rfrasur Oooooooooh.  Did you take pictures of people's faces and turn them into face summer reading staff?
15:25 rfrasur With captions?
15:26 rfrasur It's a very good idea, btw.
15:26 rfrasur The shirts...not my ideas.
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15:56 jeffdavis hmm, acq.acq_lineitem_history is presumed to exist but there seems to be no CREATE TABLE statement for it in Open-ILS/src/sql/Pg
15:59 Dyrcona heh. just an index created on an apparently non-existent table.
16:00 jeffdavis I'll create a bug report and push a fix
16:00 Dyrcona Hmm. Don't see it in upgrade scripts, either.
16:00 tsbere jeffdavis: acq.create_acq_auditor is called with "lineitem" as part of the params...
16:01 tsbere I bet that is what makes the table, and probably some views and such
16:01 Dyrcona And.....yep. there it is in my schema.
16:01 Dyrcona tsbere is probably correct.
16:02 jeffdavis ah! yep.
16:02 jeffdavis tsbere++ # thanks
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16:02 tsbere Figured I should speak up before it went to Launchpad, given that I figured it was an auditor-style table
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