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IRC log for #evergreen, 2014-06-25

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
00:11 jane_ There's nothing in here..
00:11 jane_ OOk it takes time to open
00:11 jane_ there is a warning "A script on this page may be busy, or it may have stopped responding. You can stop the script now, or you can continue to see if the script will complete.  Script: oils://remote/js/dojo/dojo/dojo.js:16"
00:16 jane_ Everything is check...but still not working...
00:17 jane_ There is no problem with this before. only yesterday when I check out.
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00:36 Jane_ Hello sorry got disconnected
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05:04 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
05:22 Jane_ Hi guys.. I still have problem in check out item
05:22 Jane_ sigh..... pplease help
05:23 rangi Jane_: have you tried the mailing list? it might work better
05:23 Jane_ mail list?
05:25 rangi http://evergreen-ils.org/c​ommunicate/mailing-lists/
05:28 Jane_ Look I don't know how to explain this but some of the fields work well. only check out item... all circ policies etc are in sys1 even those books are in sys1 how come I can't check out?
05:29 Jane_ I also edit some features in Organization Unit settings the context change to sys1
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05:40 Jane_ sigh,,,,, Ok, Thanks for good reply and help........
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12:15 * bshum watches the I/O keynote and wishes he was there.
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12:20 krvmga i want to increase the number of returns in my Browse the Catalog searches. in browse.tt2, i find the following two lines:     ctx.page_title = l("Browse the Catalog");
12:20 krvmga blimit = CGI.param('blimit') || ctx.opac_hits_per_page || 25;
12:21 krvmga (except the 25 is 10 in the original). i wanted to increase the number to 25.
12:21 krvmga however, changing the number doesn't seem to have any effect.
12:22 tsbere krvmga: opac_hits_per_page gets set in Browse.pm, the 10 there is a final fallback.
12:22 * krvmga thinks tsbere is a wizard.
12:22 krvmga tsbere: if i change the code in Browse.pm, will it take effect immediately?
12:22 krvmga or does something have to be reloaded?
12:23 tsbere krvmga: The first thing that gets set is from the user setting for opac.hits_per_page, so if you are set to 10 there that will trump whatever else you may want to change. That may also be your issue if you are logged in.
12:24 krvmga tsbere: in this case, i am not logged in.
12:25 tsbere krvmga: In that case changing the browse default of 10 in "prepare_browse_parameters" is likely to help. Or you can add a blimit=25 to the query string...
12:29 krvmga investigating...
12:50 kmlussier bshum: And I'm watching this morning's keynote from open source bridge.
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14:10 hopkinsju Good day everyone! We've completed our upgrade to 2.6.1 and everything is working perfectly!
14:10 bshum hopkinsju: Huzzah!
14:10 hopkinsju Nah, just kidding, we got some broken stuff :)
14:10 bshum There's one thing I would immediately suggest hopkinsju
14:10 hopkinsju All in all though, it went pretty well.
14:10 hopkinsju tell me bshum!
14:10 Bmagic woot!
14:11 hopkinsju Bmagic's running on Mountain Dew, lol.
14:11 bshum http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/​evergreen/2014-06-12#i_105321
14:12 Bmagic when you are awake for 32 hours, you gotta do the dew
14:12 bshum To me, that's a very important fix for metabib.rec_descriptor
14:12 bshum That impacts on performance for a bunch of parts of Evergreen 2.6
14:12 bshum I haven't filed it yet, but we should get that into a git branch for 2.6.next
14:13 Bmagic does it matter if the ingest is finished or not?
14:13 bshum It's just replacing the view.
14:13 bshum So eventually it'll matter
14:13 bshum Cause the reingest is what'll populate things
14:13 bshum Well, parts of it anyways
14:14 hopkinsju Right on
14:14 bshum Anywho, what else is up?
14:14 hopkinsju We'll dew it.
14:14 hopkinsju Our most pressing issue is the inability to search using format filters. Any filter returns with no results.
14:14 Bmagic hopkinsju thinks that the reason that item format filters doesnt work in our OPAC is dew to the reingest not done
14:14 bshum Correct.
14:15 hopkinsju Awesome.
14:15 bshum Till I reingested my bibs, none of my item filtering worked
14:15 Bmagic so, magically, they will work
14:15 bshum Because everything is tied to search_format I think
14:15 hopkinsju I assume you also had missing format icons?
14:15 bshum Yes
14:15 bshum Basically the reingest fixed both of those things
14:15 hopkinsju Groovy. That's good news. Hurry up and wait.
14:15 bshum (and lots of other things)
14:16 bshum We tweaked our icon and search formats before we reingested
14:16 bshum And we're still tweaking.
14:16 bshum So we have more reingests to go :(
14:17 * eeevil mumbles something about queued reingest...
14:17 hopkinsju Well then all things considered this migration went well. We switched all our app servers from Debian to Ubuntu, upgraded postgres to 9.2, and even tried and failed replacing ldirectord with pound proxy.
14:18 bshum hopkinsju: When you went back to ldirectord, did you use Ubuntu?
14:18 bshum It's on my very long to-do list to think about whether we're keeping ldirectord with Ubuntu and try it with 14.04.
14:18 bshum When we did it with 12.04, it didn't work because the packaged version had bugs in it
14:19 bshum So our load balancer VM is actually Debian
14:19 hopkinsju bshum: No. We weren't actually planning on replacing it last night, but because we missed the lo:0 part of the network config on the app servers we tried to stand up a pound proxy we'd been testing with.
14:19 hopkinsju That worked like a charm, except that we couldn't find a way to route the SIP traffic with pound.
14:19 bshum Aha, interesting.
14:20 jeff pound won't help with sip traffic.
14:20 hopkinsju Yeah, from what we can tell pound is totally and exclusively for http/s traffic.
14:21 hopkinsju jeff: Glad to have confirmation. What do you do to split up your traffic? I'd say we could just use iptables to shunt off SIP, but ultimately we will probably have multiple sip server to balanace
14:21 csharp hopkinsju: we use iptables, FWIW
14:22 tsbere MVLC doesn't have multiple servers to connect to, and has libraries using SSH to tunnel SIP2 traffic as well. >_>
14:22 jeff we have a single sip server with about a dozen clients. clients connect to a server here, over an ssh tunnel (using autossh) to the host running pound, where the connections then go to the (single) sip server.
14:23 tsbere We don't use autossh, though that is mainly due to needing a simple to get running setup on windows. Having to actually install stuff would have been more than we could get going at the time...
14:23 * jeff nods
14:23 tsbere Instead I set up a shell script wrapper around putty, basically. Or rather, plink.
14:24 jeff autossh is running on a linux VM at the library. the SIP clients connect over a trusted vlan to that system.
14:25 hopkinsju We routinely have 100+ sip clients. Many of our libraries have a subscription to Overdrive, who uses SIP for authentication. Another of our libraries use RFID for everything.
14:25 jeff i cringe every time i hear of libraries using SIP for overdrive.
14:25 tsbere We have overdrive doing SIP lookups via a web service, and it is one shot for the entire consortia. >_>
14:26 tsbere And I can change that web service to use something other than SIP at any time
14:26 bshum Yeah, I thought it was just one for our Overdrive too.
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14:29 jeffdavis bshum: Where were you seeing the effects of metabib.rec_descriptor slowness? My impression from the original discussion was that it mainly affected a narrow aspect of holds, but I haven't been paying close attention.
14:30 bshum jeffdavis: We also saw it with reports that made use of the MARC fields
14:30 bshum Where the report hung up waiting for the query to run
14:30 bshum For holds, it hurt us too with circulation check-in.  When it went to process potential opportunistic captures.
14:31 bshum It all kind of started to jam up in very specific and painful ways
14:32 jeffdavis Hmm. Well, no harm in throwing that CREATE OR REPLACE VIEW into our custom version-upgrade scripts, I guess. Thanks!
14:32 jeffdavis (That is, the extra SQL upgrade scripts I'll be running when we upgrade this weekend.)
14:35 silva We have problem in check out item... ubuntu 12.04 Evergreen 2.5.4.. can you help us?
14:36 kmlussier silva: Maybe. What's the problem?
14:36 silva http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/67
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14:38 silva It keeps saying that there is network problem etc.. but We can login in evergreen I also check the circulation policies etc everything are set in sys1, our problem is. We can't check out our item.
14:38 silva And also no_matchpoint....
14:39 csharp silva: looks like you have not configured your circulation rules properly
14:39 csharp "Can't call method \"duration_rule\" on an undefined value at /usr/local/share/perl/5.14.2/OpenI​LS/Application/Circ/Circulate.pm" - means there wasn't a duration rule defined - you have to set that up
14:39 hopkinsju Agreed. We see that whenever an item has a circ modifier that doesn' match a circulation rule.
14:40 tsbere Having a default "catch-all" fallback rule helps there
14:40 silva but there is nothing wrong in my duration rule.
14:41 silva admin > server administration > circulatio duration rule, right?
14:41 tsbere silva: Your circ policies aren't specifying a duration rule for the circ
14:41 bshum admin > local administration > circulation policies.
14:42 bshum That's where you need to check the circulation policies
14:42 bshum And make sure that the duration rule is set correctly in the policy
14:42 bshum Or make sure there are policies that can match to the item + patron + library that is involved in the checkout scenario.
14:43 silva Everything is set in sys1...
14:43 silva even the patrion are in sys1
14:47 bshum Well, that's what the error leads me to conclude is that something may be wrong with the configuration of the circ policies.
14:48 silva How can I screen shot it? I mean I want to screen shot my policies and send it to you.
14:49 tsbere silva: Just a thought, but did anyone make sure the policies you are looking at are marked as active?
14:49 silva yes....
14:49 silva some are not.. but only 2 are inactive
14:52 kmlussier silva: I think tsbere was on target when he suggested that you make sure you have one default rule that circ transactions can use if it's not matching the other rules. You would set it with the Permission Group as Users and the Org Unit set at the top of your org tree (consortium). Then, don't fill out anything else until you get to the next horizontal line in the interface.
14:52 kmlussier Below that line, you would then select a default duration rule, recurring fine rule, max fine rule, etc.
14:53 kmlussier There has to be a better way to document it. This question comes up quite a bit
14:54 silva I am now starting deleting all duration rule I made.
14:55 silva In my duration rule there is two left that I can't delete it.
14:55 kmlussier silva: I don't think deleting your duration rules will help. Because the problem seems to be that it's not finding a matching circulation policy. In dmin > local administration > circulation policies.
14:56 silva How to delete there is two left. and I keep delete it but nothing happen
14:56 silva Even I press reload still it's not deleted
14:58 kmlussier Just a guess, but can a duration rule be deleted if an active circulation is using it? If not, then the system might not let you delete that rule. But, as I said above, I don't think deleting a duration rule will help fix the problem.
15:03 silva Ok... in my Circulation policies I have 6 data, 4 is active 2 is inactive. student ORG unit (sys1)  Copy Circ lib (sys1) Copy Owing library (sys1) and then my admin and staff are Org unit sys1 and Copy Circ sys1 faculty all sys1 and User 3 sys1
15:06 silva Circulate = Inherited all..
15:19 kmlussier silva: Maybe try setting Circulate to True?
15:19 kmlussier If you don't have a default rule set up, then it might not know what to inherit there.
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15:21 krvmga in our opac, in the initial search results, the Place Hold link is not displayed for electronic resources (like, for instance, where you'd have to log into Overdrive to place a hold).
15:21 krvmga my problem is that, in the staff client, the Place Hold link still shows up and library staff are getting confused.
15:21 krvmga how do i make it not show up in the staff client?
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15:22 krvmga when i look at result.tt2, the answer is not intuitive to me.
15:22 hbrennan Hmm, I'm not sure but I know it's possible!
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15:23 silva nothing happen sir.. still same error
15:23 silva Can I suggest about evergreen?
15:23 kmlussier Well, that's a first for me. Never been called sir before. :)
15:24 kmlussier silva: Do you have a duration rule selected there? I assumed you did, but you didn't mention it above.
15:24 hbrennan krvmga: What does it show for that copy location in Copy Locations Editor?
15:25 silva ys
15:25 silva yes
15:27 krvmga hbrennan: i'll have to check this tomorrow. need to run.
15:28 krvmga hbrennan++
15:28 hbrennan @later tell krvmga Okie dok. Just track me down. I have locations that are not holdable by patrons in OPAC and also not holdable in staff client, so we can compare settings.
15:28 pinesol_green hbrennan: The operation succeeded.
15:28 kmlussier silva: I don't typically set up circ policies, so I don't know how much more help I can be other than to suggest setting up that default rule. Maybe somebody else here has some other ideas.
15:28 bshum silva: I might suggest relaxing the places where it says to match on SYS1.  Like removing it from the copy owning library and leaving it blank.
15:29 bshum For us, we only set the "Org Unit" and "Permission Group"
15:29 kmlussier hbrennan/krvmga: If it's an electronic resource, I wouldn't expect it to have a copy location. Because it wouldn't have a copy.
15:29 bshum So that we target specific users and library
15:29 tsbere @later tell krvmga In regards to staff seeing place hold buttons, check if they have "PLACE_UNFILLABLE_HOLD" permission. If they do that is likely the culprit, remove that and the buttons go away.
15:29 pinesol_green tsbere: The operation succeeded.
15:29 bshum Going beyond that, we don't usually set up rules to target the specific home user, etc.
15:30 bshum Perhaps one of those combinations is throwing things off
15:30 bshum Like the item is owned by someone other than SYS1
15:30 bshum Or that the user has a different home library.
15:30 bshum if you make the rules too restrictive, you may find unintended consequences by not getting any matching rules.
15:30 bshum And also, to be sure that the duration is filled in
15:32 kmlussier I think some of that depends on whose circulation rules should govern the circ. We have a consortium where the checkout library's rules govern the circ, and their circ rules are built similar to bshum's.
15:33 kmlussier For our other consortia, they want the owning library's rules to govern the circ. In that case, they use the consortium in the org unit field, and then specify the library in the copy circ lib or owning lib fields.
15:36 silva Uhmm.. sir still error... sigh....
15:36 silva I am now feeling more depress...
15:39 bshum silva: As far as getting a screenshot of what you're seeing for your policies, you may want to look up appropriate methods for your platform (are you using Windows, Mac, Linux, etc.)
15:39 silva windows...
15:40 bshum http://www.take-a-screenshot.org/ looked good to me, but I'm sure Google can find you plenty of other ways.
15:40 silva I know how to take screenshots but how you will see my screenshots?
15:41 kmlussier silva: You need to upload it somewhere and share the link in channel.
15:41 bshum I'm sure there are sites on the web to upload screenshots to
15:41 kmlussier I usually use screencast.com
15:42 silva Ok wait up
15:43 bshum Or dropbox, google drive, lots of storage options on the web these days.
15:45 silva http://imagebin.ca/v/1RAkmSWYFR4e
15:45 bshum Aha
15:45 kmlussier silva: You have Renew set to True. leave that Unset
15:46 bshum Right, if that is set to True, then it means to only apply that policy when the event is a Renewal.  But that leaves regular checkout in the cold and unmatched.
15:46 kmlussier silva: By setting Renew to True, you're saying that this rule is for renewals, not original circs.
15:46 silva But,, If I unset that again. the student will never renew there item again
15:46 bshum Make it "Unset" not "False"
15:47 bshum If it's set to False, then it will only apply the policy for new checkouts, not renewals.
15:47 bshum By making it "Unset" then it will match to both new checkouts and renewals.
15:47 bshum Either that, or you make two entries
15:47 bshum One with Renew set to TRUE, and all the policies for renewals.  vs. a second entry with Renew set to FALSE with all the new checkout policies
15:48 bshum In our case, we leave ours to "Unset" so that we can just have one entry that handles both scenarios.
15:49 silva Oh no....... just what I thought... :( in website I can't renew item
15:49 ldw Is it possible to reference a virtual field by another virtual field in fm_IDL.xml?
15:50 bshum silva: That may be a consequence of what the "default" duration allows for.
15:50 bshum The duration specifies how many renewals you get
15:50 bshum Are you sure there are renewals remaining for the item that was checked out?
15:51 silva I have policy in renewal only 2x they can renew there Item.
15:53 kmlussier silva: I noticed you have minimum available copy/hold ratios set. That could be preventing renewals if there are holds on that title.
15:53 silva I ask someone here before I forgot his name maybe last 3weeks or a month ago. I told to him that some of my student can't renew there Item. and he say's try to true the renewal then I change it to true. then they can now renew there item online
15:53 bshum Likewise if the library setting for blocking renewals on items with holds.
15:54 kmlussier What kind of message do you get when the renewal is blocked?
15:54 silva matchpoint bla bla in website..
15:55 jeff heh. if your staff browser session gets logged out and you perform a search with only one result, you get a 500 error, because egweb tries to fetch your session's workstation to look up an org unit setting.
15:56 kmlussier silva: Try this. That rule you have with Users set as the Permission Group - Remove the entries you have for Circulation Modifier and Copy Location.
15:56 jeff (theory, untested, but logs suggest this is the case)
16:04 silva http://imagebin.ca/v/1RAqelQipQ4P
16:04 silva this is what I am saying if I unset the renewal.
16:06 kmlussier silva: That's unrelated to renewal being unset. It's the holds ratios setting that I mentioned earlier.
16:06 silva but if I set the renewal into true that error message is gone
16:07 silva I don't know if this is bug in 2.5.4 of evergreen.
16:07 bshum It's probably matching to a different rule
16:07 bshum Oh you know
16:07 bshum Maybe the student rule because it has the hold ratio set
16:07 kmlussier It's not a bug, it's just getting the right fit for your rules configuation.
16:07 bshum But then the users one does not?
16:07 bshum Either way
16:07 bshum Hmm
16:07 * bshum doesn't use hold ratios
16:07 bshum (and has no clue how those operate)
16:08 silva wait let me screenshot again my configuration
16:08 kmlussier I'm trying to remember how the holds ratios work, but I do know that we were testing them to be set at 1.
16:09 kmlussier OK, I looked it up here: http://markmail.org/message/wy6d7cvhcwrvi3tq
16:09 kmlussier silva: You basically are saying you need 25 total copies for each hold on that title for a renewal to go through. I don't think that's what you want.
16:10 silva The faculty suggest that.
16:11 kmlussier silva: I don't know how many copies you typically have on a title, but that rule is going to make it hard for any renewal to go through if there is an existing hold on the record.
16:12 bshum Like if you only have one or two copies of a book, you'd never be able to renew the item because the copy/hold ratio is way above it at 25?
16:12 silva So should I cancel some holds?
16:12 bshum Yikes... that's special.
16:12 kmlussier silva: you also probably wanto to choose to use an available copies hold ratio OR a total copies hold ratio. I wouldn't think you would need to use both.
16:12 kmlussier silva: Is this a productio system with real patron? If so, I wouldn't cancel the holds. I would adjust the ratios.
16:12 * kmlussier apologizes for typos.
16:13 bshum silva: With even one hold, you'd need 26 copies on the record before it would let any renewals.
16:13 bshum With two holds, that's what?  50 copies?
16:13 bshum With a 25 ratio
16:13 bshum (if I read that correctly... which I might not have)
16:13 kmlussier silva: In our case, we were considering 1 or 2 available copies for each hold.
16:13 silva hmmm... I just following orders of our boss..
16:14 kmlussier That's the way I understand berick's explanation in that e-mail.
16:14 bshum Well then that's why the renewals are not working properly.
16:14 silva Hmmm I tried to cancel all holds and now it work properly.
16:15 kmlussier silva: If you want the ratio to be that high, then I would recommend not using the ratios and just using the library settings that prevents any renewals if there are holds on the record. In that instance, the user will get a message that is more understandable.
16:15 kmlussier silva: Or if you want to use ratios, I would recommend using something much lower.
16:16 silva http://imagebin.ca/v/1RAu5HlLdWag
16:17 silva that screenshot after I cancel all holds item in one book.
16:17 silva it work properly now. but the holds they suggest is 25 and 50. >.<
16:17 bshum silva: Maybe it's a reversed ratio.  You mean for every copy, allow up to 25 holds before you block renewal?
16:18 bshum In which case that'd be 0.04 for the ratio, not 25
16:18 silva yes
16:18 bshum 1/25 = 0.04
16:18 kmlussier silva: You're doing the opposite. You're saying for every hold, you need 26 copies before a renewal will succeed.
16:18 silva hmmm.... then I should change the ratio
16:22 silva If I will change the error message. How I will change that? I tried to change some features of evergreen in website.
16:22 kmlussier silva: You can't change that block message. https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1234220
16:22 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1234220 in Evergreen "Renewal blocked due to holds ratio does not display block message" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Medium,Triaged]
16:23 kmlussier Or, I should say, I personally haven't found a way to change that message. But if you find a way, please share  your results with me! :)
16:24 silva I will trace that for you
16:24 silva as compliment for your hardwork in evergreen :)
16:24 kmlussier silva++
16:25 silva anyway my name is kassandra torres hehehe.... :D
16:25 bshum kmlussier++
16:26 bshum @praise 2 kmlussier
16:26 * pinesol_green kmlussier is kind and patient to newbies
16:26 kmlussier silva: Nice to meet you Kassandar, I'm Kathy Lussier from the Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative. I hope to see you around here more! :)
16:27 silva I should put my real name next time :)
16:27 silva sorry to calling you sir. :D
16:30 kmlussier silva: If you would like, we could add you to http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/​doku.php?id=community:irc_channel. Or we could set up a wiki account for you, and you could add yourself.
16:30 silva yea sure...
17:02 silva Thanks Guys... :)
17:02 silva See you again.
17:03 kmlussier silva: See ya!
17:03 silva :)
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17:15 kmlussier Hmmm...DIG style guide doesn't have an opinion on the use of title case in headers.
17:15 kmlussier @coin
17:15 pinesol_green kmlussier: heads
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17:18 kmlussier A quick scan of the docs tells me that title case is used most often, so I'll go with it.
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18:06 * kmlussier wonders if there is a more user-friendly way to say "organizational unit" for documentation.
18:06 bshum Heh
18:06 bshum That one definitely needs to be in some future Evergreen glossary we create.
18:07 kmlussier I sometimes try to just say library, but, in this case, it could be a system or a consortium or a branch, so organizational unit is probably the best term.
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19:05 bmills is anyone using the new web self check? we've had some issues with patron logins (barcode) failing while the username logins go through without a problem. just curious if anyone else had experienced this.
19:09 bshum bmills: Yes, I found that happened for one of the libraries we consulted with due to issues with barcode/username regex settings
19:09 bshum Their usernames looked too much like barcodes (aka, they had numbers in them)
19:09 bshum Or maybe it was the other way... their barcodes had letters
19:09 bshum Either way, we had to add something to define what was a barcode vs. username
19:09 bshum And doing that allowed barcode authentication to work properly.
19:09 bshum I think it was barcode regex as a library setting
19:10 * bshum runs off to dinner, but may try to remember more later
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20:20 jeffdavis Is there a reason we still install libdbi from source? I'm running afoul of the test_for_libdbi_pkg install target and I'm not sure the issue it's working around is still relevant on Ubuntu 12.04.
20:21 jeffdavis We'd prefer to be using the packaged version.
20:50 bshum jeffdavis: Hmm, interesting question.
20:52 bshum jeffdavis: Does it do that now with the new makefile?
20:52 * bshum isn't immediately seeing it, but is probably missing something obvious
20:57 bshum By that I just mean I don't see any libdbi-* files in my Evergreen repo on my recent Ubuntu builds.
20:57 bshum So I wonder if that only gets called on older versions of the Makefile
21:00 * bshum only sees "install_libdbi" as part of debian-wheezy, debian_squeeze makefiles
21:01 bshum So I would assume Ubuntu uses the packages and doesn't do that dance anymore.
21:04 kmlussier joined #evergreen
21:04 bshum Hope that helps jeffdavis
21:10 bshum Actually, Wheezy probably doesn't need it installed manually either.
21:10 bshum libdbi-dev for that is 0.8.4
21:10 bshum Same as Ubuntu Precise
21:22 bshum jeffdavis: As for that test_for_libdbi_pkg target... hmm, what are you running into?  Seems like that shouldn't come into play unless libdbi0 is installed?
23:11 jeffdavis libdbi0 is indeed installed on one of the servers I'm upgrading.  Not sure that's "normal" though.
23:13 jeffdavis Ah, you're right bshum, the install_libdbi target (which installs it from source) is only used by the Debian installs, not Ubuntu.

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