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IRC log for #evergreen, 2014-03-26

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
00:13 jeff one down: bug 1297614
00:13 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1297614 in Evergreen "Add support for Syndetics Plus" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297614 - Assigned to Jeff Godin (jgodin)
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07:48 csharp @later tell rfrasur no - I had Saturday evening -> Monday morning at home and drove to Raleigh on Monday morning
07:48 pinesol_green csharp: The operation succeeded.
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08:28 csharp jeff: I finally installed Business::Stripe on the Ubuntu buildslave, FYI
08:29 csharp so both GPLS slaves are updated
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08:33 bshum csharp++
08:34 jeff csharp: thanks!
08:34 jeff csharp: i'm likely to be hacking on Syndetics Plus support today. Updates will go in the bug I opened last night.
08:39 csharp jeff: excellent
08:40 * csharp looks forward to getting past the busy travel season and able to work on projects again
08:40 jeff yeah.
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08:42 _bott_ Some morning frivolity   http://cdn.themetapicture.com/media/fun​ny-Grumpy-cat-programmer-code-bugs.jpg
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09:42 jeff morning, all!
09:44 remingtron hi jeff
09:44 remingtron I'm learning about BIBFRAME, have you or your librarians investigated it at all?
09:45 jeff I have an awareness of it, but could not claim to even be able to give an elevator pitch on it. I'm on the list, and peek in from time to time.
09:46 * Dyrcona points at open-ils-general, but thinks remingtron has already seen the emails.
09:46 remingtron Sounds like something the EG community should keep an eye on. Thanks Dyrcona, yes that is what spurred my interest.
09:46 jcamins jeff: I always use the following to explain it: "WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMEEEEDDD."
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09:51 bshum Well, the only other email about bibframe was a forward by ehardy back in November 2011.  So, I guess there's not alot of motion on it presently?  :D
09:51 jeff puppet chef ansible salt... or just shell scripts. :-)
09:52 jeff short story character name: Ansible Salt
09:53 jeff (his parents were sysadmins back before the reset)
09:54 Dyrcona jcamins: That explains just about everything.
09:55 jcamins Dyrcona: I like multi-purpose explanations.
09:55 Dyrcona jcamins++
09:56 yboston Question about EG community calendar(s)…. I would like to list the Thursday IRC practice time on one of the cakendars...
09:56 yboston but I only have access to the DIG calendar. I can add it there, but wondering if it should be added on a different one
09:57 bshum yboston: Some of us have powers to add others to the community calendar
09:57 bshum I can add you to that
09:57 yboston bshum: OK, thanks
09:58 bshum yboston: You should have powers now.
09:58 * dbs has followed the bibframe mailing list, concurs with jcamins
09:59 jcamins I thought about joining the bibframe list. Then my survival instinct kicked in.
10:00 csharp jcamins++
10:01 yboston bshum: ¡gracias!    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jnv0ejmLlY
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10:18 pinesol_green [evergreen|Jason Stephenson] LP1297435: Make 0872 upgrade require less hand holding. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=2d2e504>
10:24 egbuilder build #573 of evergreen-master-ubuntu-12.04-x86 is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/buildbot/builde​rs/evergreen-master-ubuntu-12.04-x86/builds/573
10:25 bshum Yay!
10:25 bshum :)
10:25 bshum (unrelated)
10:30 csharp buildbot++
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10:39 * jeff starts the opensrf-slave slave also
10:39 jeff apologies, as i think it's going to build a few times and report here. :-)
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10:42 hopkinsju Bmagic++
10:42 Bmagic hopkinsju++
10:42 * hopkinsju basks in the warm glow of the new quassel core
10:43 bshum Fancy :)
10:43 bshum quassel++
10:46 hopkinsju IKR? I know it's been said before (including by me) that a community Quassel core would be awesome. I wonder what the RAM/CPU/network requirements of such a thing would be.
10:47 * bshum bans kmlussier from said future quassel server till we solve her weird Windows quirks.
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10:51 kmlussier :9
10:51 kmlussier :(
10:54 * Bmagic recommends this command: format c: /quick
10:56 eeevil Bmagic: have a heart and at least add /system to make it bootable ;)
10:57 Bmagic eeevil: lol - yeah bootable suuuure
10:58 phasefx new meaning to DOS
10:58 jeffdavis rangi: what is the state of the NCIPServer code? I see it's being actively developed (which is great!), wondering how far it is from being ready for testing/release.
11:01 Dyrcona jeffdavis: My understanding is testing is started for the Koha side of things. The Evergreen side has gone nowhere because I was going to do it and have been too busy with other projects.
11:01 jeff jeffdavis: what are you looking to do with NCIP?
11:02 Dyrcona jeffdavis: The Evergreen side of things should start moving within a few weeks or months.
11:09 jl- I'm reporting on the conference later today, anyone else want to chime in why migrating from a legacy ILS -> evergreen is such a big deal? so far I have: 1) marc records are shit 2) there are a lot of custom scripts involved but no clear documentation that fits all for batch importing formatting, adjusting (utilizing and perl, python) and there are several layers to be aware of (bibs, authorities, holds, books in circulation, charactor en
11:09 jl- the list could probably go on and on but I need to make a good assessment of the effort it will take
11:10 jl- that being said I've been able to import ~100k records at a time but for some record sets it chokes
11:10 Dyrcona jl-: There are many different ILS out there so a script that works with data from one, might not work with data from another.
11:10 jl- indeed
11:10 jeff jl-: your list truncated at "character enc"
11:11 Dyrcona jl-: Also, not everyone on the same ILS uses the same features or uses them the same way, so a script for one ILS might not work all customers.
11:11 jl- jeff: I also had previous ILS tags
11:11 jl- Dyrcona: yeah that makes sense.. the transformation change is big, I want to talk about the technical implications
11:11 Dyrcona s/(work) (all)/\1 for \2/
11:11 jl- *transformational
11:16 jl- hm
11:17 jeff since quassel has come up in conversation here a bit -- what are OS X users using in terms of a client? Are you using Quassel IRC Client v0.9.2, or something else?
11:18 bshum jeff: That sounds like the one I was using on my macbook the last time I pulled it out of the stack of discarded laptops.
11:18 * gmcharlt uses Quassel 0.8.0 on my OS X laptop
11:18 bshum That's the precompiled one that's linked on the quassel page right?
11:18 * gmcharlt probably shoudl upgrade as well
11:18 jl- I use irssi from any shell
11:19 csharp irssi + screen FTW
11:19 jl- it also blends in better with your work environment if you set it to /set theme.colorless
11:19 csharp old_skool++
11:19 jl- looks like you are just in a shell then
11:19 jl- ;)
11:19 jeff gmcharlt: beware, i found that 0.9.2 doesn't seem to auto-reconnect after network loss (or sleep/wake)
11:20 bshum Bleh
11:20 jeff it's annoying, but i'm usually using {mosh|ssh}+{tmux|screen}+irssi anyway.
11:20 jl- /SET theme colorless.theme
11:20 gmcharlt hopkinsju: re a community Quassel core -- one consideration: Quassel logs /everything/ by default
11:20 csharp mosh++ jeff++
11:21 csharp gonna set that up on all my oft-used servers
11:21 gmcharlt it's not that I don't trust you all, but I personally would never use an IRC bouncer that wasn't under my control
11:21 gmcharlt jeff: good to know
11:21 jeff which would mean that those using the code would be trusting those administering the core with all of their irc traffic, including nickserv and bot passwords as well as private messages.
11:22 jeff csharp: mosh is present on lupin, courtesy backports.
11:22 csharp jeff: yes, excellent
11:23 jl- my bouncer is running from my ddwrt router
11:23 jl- called miau
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11:26 jeff rfrasur++ for the quote "I am, however, interested to see if this is an actual thing or just another library idea that ends up being a pain with little added value."
11:26 rfrasur hey, yo, thanks :)
11:26 rfrasur hmmm, and yeah...I do actually say that irl
11:26 * rfrasur is ashamed again
11:27 jeff ashamed?
11:27 rfrasur Actually, I feel like I should go back to library school and learn more about cataloging
11:28 rfrasur yes...I'm ashamed that I say "hey...yo...thanks" in actual conversation.
11:28 Dyrcona rfrasur: That's cool. bro....
11:28 Dyrcona :)
11:28 rfrasur Dyrcona++
11:29 rfrasur csharp:That's good.
11:29 * gmcharlt blames graced for adding "groovy" back to his vocabulary
11:29 rfrasur gmcharlt: you'd removed it?
11:29 gmcharlt rfrasur: it had fallen into disuse
11:30 rfrasur I'm glad it found a second life :D
11:32 jeff grumbly again that Syndetics some of their formatting issues, but only for Syndetics Plus -- not in the HTML or XML views of their data.
11:32 jeff s/some of/fixed some of/ # i accidentally the word "fixed", there.
11:33 rfrasur lol, yikes
11:34 rfrasur Hmm, so you'll pay them for syndetics plus, you think?
11:34 jeffdavis Dyrcona: not looking to do anything with NCIP right now, just need to tell my boss where it's at :)
11:35 jeffdavis thanks!
11:35 jeff Syndetics Plus is just an alternate (javascript-requiring, not previously supported at all on secure sites) method of accessing the Syndetics content you already pay for.
11:35 jeff jeffdavis: what is your boss looking to do with NCIP? :-)
11:35 rfrasur jeff: oh (see?  I do need to go back to school)
11:36 jeff nah, it sounds like something that you'd need to pay extra for. :-)
11:36 csharp "with Syndetics Plus you actually get to use everything you pay for with regular Syndetics!"
11:36 Dyrcona too_many_browser_tabs_open--
11:36 jeffdavis jeff: answering an RFEOI ;)
11:36 rfrasur lol, csharp...that sounds like a terrible selling point all around.
11:37 jeff csharp: to the best of my knowledge, there are no data elements available only in Syndetics Plus and not available in the HTML and XML feeds.
11:37 jeff (unless you count paragraph breaks :P)
11:37 csharp jeff: nah - I'm just kidding ;-)
11:37 csharp csharp--
11:37 rfrasur stop that
11:37 rfrasur csharp++
11:37 rfrasur I think Evergreen Indiana is looking at going with NoveList to replace Syndetics.
11:38 rfrasur but it costs a.....lot.
11:38 csharp rfrasur: PINES is looking at adding NoveList alongside existing Syndetics services
11:38 Dyrcona We have Syndetics for the consortium and Novelist for some (all?) of our members.
11:38 jeff The handful of libraries I've talked with who add Novelist still keep Syndetics for cover/jacket images.
11:38 dbs jeff: lack of context but buildbot only announces changes in build status (e.g. from failed -> success)
11:38 bshum We have Syndetics for all, and Novelist for a handful (like four or so libs)
11:38 jeffdavis jeff: less glibly, we don't have a use case for NCIP right now, just need to explain what EG can do and what it will be able to do in the near future.
11:38 csharp jeff: exactly
11:38 jeff dbs: ah! thanks!
11:39 jeff dbs: logical!
11:39 rfrasur That's interesting.  I don't know if we're talking about replacing or adding now that you bring it up.
11:39 * rfrasur isn't sure if she's supposed to talk about it either.
11:39 jeff jeffdavis: certainly! i've some interest in NCIP since we're using it with our state ILL system, so I tend to poke and prod when it comes up.
11:39 * rfrasur barely cares.
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11:43 rfrasur So, I had a couple thoughts that aren't development related but are Evergreen related (well, not overtly development...I guess).  1. It'd be cool to have an administrative interest group....or something...in the community.  2. It'd be cool if, after conference sites are determined, local/regional software dev university programs were identified and then invited to a special welcome/information session to talk about F/OSS
11:43 rfrasur and also Evergreen.
11:43 jeff administrative interest group in the sense of "library directors" and such?
11:43 jeff idea 2 sounds very interesting!
11:43 jeff rfrasur++
11:44 rfrasur jeff: yeah, though a little broader than that.  library directors, but also consortium personnel, etc.
11:44 jeff yep.
11:44 rfrasur That's it.  I haven't thought about either one any more than that.
11:45 * rfrasur has been singing Sandra Boynton's "Chocolate Chip Cookies" song to preschoolers.
11:47 csharp aversion to IRC/email lists seem to be a barrier with those types of staff
11:48 rfrasur Yeah...have kinda noticed.  I think addressing that is probably one of the first steps.  Will spend some car time thinking about it.
11:49 * csharp has seen more comfort with the "regular traditional conference calls" approach
11:49 * bshum seems to think of all sorts of things when driving around places.
11:49 * rfrasur growls "I HATE conference calls so very, VERY much."
11:49 csharp lack of public logs considered in that
11:50 rfrasur Yeah, it'd really need to be logged.
11:51 * Dyrcona dies a little inside.
11:51 Dyrcona Not related to anything in the channel...just work.
11:51 rfrasur Dyrcona: why?  because of conference calls?  Oh, that's good...although conference calls do evoke a little bit of hari kari in me.
11:55 rfrasur :-|
11:55 * rfrasur just died a little, too.
11:59 dreuther Is there a public facing server running master that I can use to test a couple things?
12:01 rfrasur dreuther: I'm really not sure.  You might want to ping bshum or jeff or csharp or eeevil
12:01 * rfrasur pings them for you.
12:01 dreuther rfrasur:  Thanks
12:02 bshum dreuther: So, our production system is a bit dated off master (it's based from November or December I think):  acorn.biblio.org
12:02 bshum But I think my theory server:  theory.biblio.org
12:02 Dyrcona jcamins: [off] None?
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12:02 bshum That should be more recentish
12:03 bshum And actually master-like
12:03 Dyrcona oops. bet that's in the logs now. :)
12:04 rfrasur Dyrcona: no context so it's okay
12:04 bshum dreuther: I'd generally recommend putting together your own test system though.  Trusting the rest of us might not be the best thing if you want to check or poke at things :)
12:04 * bshum wanders off to lunch
12:05 dreuther bshum:  Thanks  I think that will be close enough.  Just need a few basic tests.
12:06 jeff Syndetics Plus adds an additional 13KB of Javascript that rarely if ever changes, yet is loaded with a cache-busting t=Date().getTime()
12:08 Dyrcona Working for libraries: The crazy that keeps on giving!
12:08 jeff also, while the http URL is backed by a CDN (which we already know has certain availability issues), the https URL appears to be backed by a single server at proquest.
12:09 rfrasur Dyrcona: crazy is kind of a requisite for working in a library...but there's crazy...and there's CRAZY.
12:10 Dyrcona I like to read this blog sometimes: http://www.clerkmanifesto.com/
12:11 jeff oh, neat! bare "nbsp;
12:11 jeff " in the Syndetics Plus content
12:11 jeff grr.
12:11 jeff (argh.)
12:12 rfrasur Dyrcona++ #I'm particularly fond of the "Ten reasons not to read this list of ten reasons not to read this list."
12:19 jeff <br /> nbsp;<br />
12:19 rfrasur lol, nice.
12:23 Dyrcona rfrasur: I think we need buttons: "I passed the secret test!"
12:23 rfrasur hehe, I'll make it happen.
12:50 * rfrasur plays with Awesome Box.
12:56 jcamins rfrasur: how is it?
12:56 rfrasur Hmm, not sure yet.  Still getting it configured.  It seems pretty straightforward though.  I'm hoping that it also includes plug-ins or embed code.
12:57 jcamins rfrasur: greatest straight line ever, and you responded "hmm, not sure yet"? :P
12:57 rfrasur :p
12:58 rfrasur Please note that I can only converse intelligently by accident...never on purpose.
12:59 rfrasur unless it's about Korean chopsticks (pretty intelligent) or yarn (somewhat competent).
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13:05 rfrasur Hmm, it'd be very nice to have EG integration.
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13:08 Dyrcona rfrasur: jeff was looking into that at the confernce, and I also cloned their code repository so I can see how the Awesome Box API works.
13:08 Dyrcona An "Awesome" checkin modifier should be doable.
13:10 rfrasur Dyrcona++ jeff++ I don't understand API (I mean, I know generally what it is but that's it), but I think we can hobble along with using ISBN/UPC for the time being.  I guess I wouldn't want it tied to one record necessarily, but it'd be a more elegant workflow if my staff could use the ILS only instead of dealing with the AB website as well.
13:11 rfrasur Not that we have a tremendous amount of volume that'd be particularly burdensome.
13:12 hopkinsju I'm really liking the idea of an Awesome checkin modifier.
13:14 rfrasur I'm not sure.  You'd need more than one because you can theoretically flag books, videos, and music as awesome...and they'd have different circulation rules that are determined by their modifiers.
13:14 rfrasur Plus, what's the mechanism to change the modifier?  would it happen at checkin?  if so, how?
13:15 Dyrcona rfrasur: The button/menu at the bottom right of the checkin screen.
13:15 Dyrcona I imagine a workflow where staff checking the awesome box things separately from things from the "regular" box.
13:15 Dyrcona You'd turn that on, check the materials in, and then hopefully remember to turn the awesome modifier off.
13:16 rfrasur That makes sense. (btw, I've NEVER used that menu at the bottom...and am now going to, ty)
13:16 Dyrcona As for different types of materials, that could be handled by the code. It should be able to tell a book from a DVD, for example.
13:17 rfrasur so, it'd just switch it to an awesome book, dvd, etc....not just to an awesome
13:17 hopkinsju I guess I should say I'm liking the idea of flagging materials as Awesome in Evergreen in general, not any particular implemtation.
13:17 rfrasur hopkinsju, depending on how the API functions, it could do some pretty cool stuff.
13:17 Dyrcona It would send the appropriate information to awesomebox.io, yes.
13:18 rfrasur which would then send that information to our website...which would, in itself, be awesome.
13:18 Dyrcona I have not looked at how it could be integrated into the catalog.
13:19 Dyrcona I imagine awesome box could be an added content provider.
13:19 rfrasur Yeah
13:20 rfrasur Okay, I've done my research for today.  It works.  Next, we need an actual box...and will go from there.
13:20 bshum berick: I just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1297967 to go poke at our docs for openils-mapper, but it occurs to me that mbklein is presently here at code4lib and maybe we should ask him what he thinks about merging your work.
13:20 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1297967 in Evergreen "document openils-mapper code for enriched EDI" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,New]
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13:22 berick bshum: thanks, and good idea
13:28 kmlussier Has anyone put the Awesome box idea on LP yet?
13:28 kmlussier If not, I will. :)
13:28 jihpringle kmlussier ++
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13:32 * rfrasur found an actual box that shall be the library's Awesome Box (it was in there all along...duh).
13:32 jeff i didn't consider my ideas well-enough-fleshed for a wishlist bug yet.
13:33 rfrasur kmlussier++ #thank you
13:34 jeff i wasn't sure if it was an actual thing or just another library idea that ends up being a pain with little added value. ;-)
13:34 rfrasur jeff++
13:34 rfrasur very nice
13:35 rfrasur and :p
13:42 jeff Please don't think I'm making fun -- I liked the quote and I've thought similar before. :-)
13:43 rfrasur lol, even if you were making fun, I wouldn't take offense.
13:43 rfrasur But I didn't think that.
13:43 jeff That said, we try to give things an early try and not worry too much about if they're going to fail (especially when it's not something that requires major up-front investment of time or money before determining if it'll pay off).
13:44 rfrasur same here.  as much as it's within my power and ability, at least.
13:44 rfrasur Especially free things that are fun and patrons could actually enjoy.
13:49 jeff I wonder what Bowker BMS pricing is like.
13:52 jeff Strong sense of deja vu, also. :P
13:53 rfrasur I dunno anything about Bowker accept something very vaguely from days gone by.
13:53 rfrasur back when I had access to things I can't afford anymore
13:58 rfrasur (which sounds like I'm bitter, but I'm not - poor agrees with me)
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14:04 gerson #quit
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14:40 rangi bradl/ eeevil : laptop ordered .. it should arrive well before I do, thanks heaps once again
14:43 eeevil rangi: np. glad to help
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15:16 bshum Whoa, the google cse box on the docs site is GREAT.
15:17 bshum That's new I think
15:17 kmlussier Yes, that is new.
15:17 kmlussier I don't think it was there yesterday.
15:18 * kmlussier wants to know who did it so that she can give them karma.
15:23 * alynn26 would like to send karma also.  That was not there yesterday!
15:25 phasefx they should divide the EG versions into tags/facets (not complaining)
15:25 kmlussier Ooh! I like that idea.
15:25 phasefx we used to do such with the CSE for the main site
15:26 * kmlussier misses CSE on the main site.
15:26 jeff i don't know if we yet have structure enough to support it, but i do like how PostgreSQL docs mostly/usually have a series of links to "this page in the X.Y version of the docs"
15:27 jeff it quite handily gets around the "google sent me to the PostgreSQL 8.2 version of this page when I'm running 9.3"
15:28 phasefx should add the ability to add comments too
15:29 phasefx (again, not complaining, and not volunteering ;)
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15:38 csharp postgresql_as_a_model_for_good_docs++
15:39 * rfrasur ponders buying a red velvet cheesecake to share with friends.
15:40 * phasefx is a friend and is in favor of that :)
15:41 rfrasur_cheeseca If you were closer, I would LOVE to share it with you.
15:41 * rfrasur_cheeseca adds cheesecake to #egils15 agenda
15:41 rfrasur_cheeseca brb
15:41 jcamins rfrasur_cheeseca: oooh. Maybe I should master cheesecake baking.
15:43 * kmlussier considered baking cookies for #egils14, but ended up being too busy doing conferency things.
15:46 * csharp bakes and would be happy to do so for a meeting where he has access to a kitchen
15:46 jcamins kmlussier: you should have #egils15 in New York. I can guarantee there would be cookies. :)
15:47 jcamins Ask bshum. Half my suitcase was taken up by cookies on my way out to KohaCon.
15:47 kmlussier New York? Then I guess Pioneer would need to host it.
15:48 jeff phasefx: i am less enamored with comments in docs, but i'm not opposed. :-)
15:48 kmlussier jcamins: How do you package them so that they don't get smooshed?
15:49 jcamins Actually, have bshum host it. I could get to CT. :)
15:49 * kmlussier ponders the logistics of packing cookies for her upcoming trip to Atlanta.
15:49 jcamins kmlussier: a lot of them got smooshed. :(
15:49 csharp kmlussier: what are you doing in ATL?
15:49 phasefx jeff: to follow postgres model, we could choose to view the docs with or without the comments
15:49 jcamins The ones that didn't I put in cleaned Chinese takeout containers.
15:49 bshum jcamins: No, we'll just have chinese food at my house.
15:49 bshum Obviously.
15:49 kmlussier jcamins: MA was too far?
15:50 bshum jcamins++ # cookies :)
15:50 jcamins kmlussier: yeah, it was too far for a day trip, and I couldn't make the middle of the week.
15:50 * phasefx was talking with a librarian at the conference about how cool it would be if folks would base their local docs off the main docs, and have it where we could switch between them with a drop-down menu
15:50 kmlussier csharp: I'm going to a Lyrasis thing next month, but am planning a stop to the Equinox offices.
15:50 jeff phasefx: local overlay to community docs?
15:50 phasefx the convention might be that you put local stuff in a branded "info" box to distinguish it from stock Evergreen
15:50 phasefx right
15:50 jeff phasefx: "this is how we use this here", etc.
15:51 jeff interesting.
15:51 phasefx exactly
15:51 csharp kmlussier: ah - cool
15:51 jeff somewhat similar to how some of the in-client help was at least theorized
15:51 kmlussier jcamins: Ah, that's too bad. We'll just need to do a joint koha/Evergreen conference so that I can finally meet you.
15:51 bshum I still wish we could have made more use of those html help files.  Alas
15:51 phasefx jeff: so we have incentive for folks to contribute to improving the stock docks, and we share customizations as a way of providing examples/background/context
15:52 jcamins kmlussier: if I ever visit Boston, I'll announce it in #evergreen.
15:52 jeff so, syndetics plus support should be quite do-able. there are quirks that i'll bring up with bowker support, but the big hurdle is gone.
15:54 * rfrasur has returned sans cheesecake (they sold the last one before she arrived) but with chocolate croissants (she's also feeling the need to be particularly nice to staff today) and with cheesecakes ordered for friend-sharing next week.
15:55 kmlussier Chocolate croissants are so much better than cheesecake.
15:56 rfrasur I've never had one (if you can believe that).
15:56 jcamins I should make chocolate croissants.
15:57 mceraso Weren't there chocolate croissants during breakfast at the conference last week?
15:57 csharp nom nom nom
15:57 rfrasur mceraso, I think so...but that's too much in the morning.
15:57 kmlussier mceraso: I don't know but they had them at the Au Bon Pain across the street.
15:58 mceraso Oooo! I missed going in there!
15:59 Christineb How do I get in on cheesecake friend sharing???
16:00 rfrasur Christineb: Move to east central Indiana?
16:00 rfrasur or visit
16:00 Christineb Does east central Indiana have snow right now???
16:00 * rfrasur shares within a 2 county radius
16:00 rfrasur Nope, it melted this morning.
16:01 Christineb Hooray!, Ok done. Cheesecake... Indiana here I come
16:02 rfrasur But not til next Wednesday.  Apparently, it takes the baker a good four days from start to finish....so they're scheduled for next Wednesday.
16:02 Christineb Sounds like a very delicious cheesecake!
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16:04 rfrasur It is ;)
16:05 remingtron bshum: kmlussier: alynn26: Robert Soulliere added the google search to the docs. Hopefully he'll have time to add it to the whole docs template soon.
16:05 remingtron send some cheesecake his way
16:05 kmlussier rsoulliere++
16:05 bshum rsoulliere++
16:06 rfrasur rsoulliere++
16:06 alynn26 rsoulliere++
16:06 kmlussier @karma rsoulliere
16:06 pinesol_green kmlussier: Karma for "rsoulliere" has been increased 51 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 51.
16:06 kmlussier He really deserves more karma than that. rsoulliere++
16:08 rfrasur Ugh!  I only get 25-30 minutes with classes tomorrow.  It's not enough time!  (brief pseudo_childrens_librarian_rant)
16:09 rfrasur Also, I might have snipped at an employee that told me to check the library's answering machine because the announcement has the wrong hours.
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16:09 rfrasur so, I bought them croissants.
16:10 * rfrasur mutters something about being an enabler.
16:14 lchenry Hi, y'all - is there a way to force Evergreen to send an email to a patron for testing purposes?
16:14 rfrasur lchenry: what are you testing?
16:14 rfrasur the validity of the email address or something else?
16:15 lchenry We have a patron whose hold notifications are dated 12/31/1969
16:15 lchenry I read that this could be a problem with some phones, and I wanted to see if it displayed the same way on a laptop or desktop
16:15 lchenry and she's already deleted the notifications she had
16:16 rfrasur Personally, and as a nontechy person, I'd temporarily change her email address to my own, and repeat the scenario that caused the notification.
16:17 lchenry Right, but that could take a couple of hours. She's in the library right now.
16:17 csharp lchenry: yes, that's a client-side issue
16:17 bshum I've seen that sort of date bug before with my work email server + gingerbread android devices (kindle fire, phone, etc.)
16:17 bshum It wouldn't be something Evergreen would fix.  It might be the email provider
16:17 lchenry True
16:17 csharp lchenry: lots of links on the google about that issue
16:17 bshum Or just the bug in android
16:17 rfrasur I doubt you're going to be able to troubleshoot it effectively with the patron standing right there.
16:18 lchenry I also found something that is an Evergreen thing: http://statelibrary.ncdcr.​libguides.com/thenest/news
16:18 csharp in any case, it would be an issue with the MTA, not Evergreen per se
16:18 lchenry the October 8 posting
16:19 Dyrcona lchenry: That date usually means the email had no date in it and the patron's email client added one.
16:21 bshum I don't recognize that date variable.  Maybe that's something custom in NC Cardinal's A/T?
16:21 lchenry Could be
16:21 bshum Or maybe it's something newer that snuck into newer releases and our A/T templates are just super old :D
16:21 bshum lchenry: Are you part of NC Cardinal?
16:22 bshum If so, maybe you should pester them to make sure that it's really fixed.
16:22 lchenry No
16:22 lchenry Just something I found when Googling
16:22 * bshum looks for stock
16:23 lchenry But my original question: Is there a way to force a test email? That would be handy, not just for this but for other email problems.
16:23 bshum Okay, that date thing must be custom somewhere, I'm not seeing anything like that in the stock A/T definitions at least.
16:24 lchenry Fair enough. Thanks for looking.
16:24 csharp lchenry: your sys admin can use mutt or something to send an email from the server, if that's what you want
16:24 bshum I think in the A/T admin interface there's a test area
16:24 bshum But I don't know if/how it works
16:24 * csharp doubts it does that level of testing
16:24 bshum csharp's suggestion is probably best to determine if there's any wacky config issues on the server in question.
16:26 * Dyrcona thinks it is more likely to be the template and not the server.
16:26 lchenry Yeah, I don't have access to the back end of it, and the EG admin is home sick. I was hoping not to bug him. :)
16:26 phasefx lchenry: if you don't care about the email content, you could use the Email link from a record summary page in the TPAC
16:26 phasefx if authenticated as the patron
16:26 csharp phasefx++ # good thought
16:26 bshum phasefx++ # good idea
16:26 bshum Jinx!
16:27 lchenry haha
16:27 * csharp high fives bshum
16:27 lchenry Good thought, thanks!
16:27 bshum lchenry: Do let us know though what client the patron was using.  I'd be curious to know if it's similar to issues I've seen in my own email on personal devices.
16:28 lchenry I certainly will!
16:28 bshum gingerbread--
16:28 csharp in our experience, it ends up being a client-side issue, though, fwiw
16:28 csharp e.g., it's not happening to everyone, or you'd hear more about it
16:29 lchenry Right
16:29 lchenry I actually found a lot of results about messages dated 12/31/1969 with no subject or content, with iOS and Android. Bizarre. Never seen it myself.
16:32 jeff the underlying reason is typically that the Date: header is missing or otherwise not in a format that the email client can handle. many software programs internally store dates as "number of seconds since midnight January 1 1970, UTC" -- and if you're in the US, you're going to be a few hours behind UTC...
16:33 jeff ...therefore, a "number of seconds since 1/1/1970 UTC" gets interpreted in your timezone as "sometime December 31, 1969"
16:33 tspindler left #evergreen
16:33 csharp jeff++ # clear explanations
16:33 lchenry Thanks, jeff
16:34 jeff (this isn't likely to be helpful in fixing the problem on your end, if there even is a problem on your end, but this might end up helping you out if you ever find yourself in a round of UNIX trivia)
16:34 lchenry Haha, any knowledge is good knowledge.
16:34 csharp lchenry++
16:34 bshum trivia++
16:34 remingtron berick: what's required to get a test instance of your web staff client code running?
16:36 bshum For myself, I grabbed one of berick's working branches
16:36 bshum http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=work​ing/Evergreen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/​heads/collab/berick/web-staff-proto
16:36 bshum And installed that branch of code alongside other things in our test system.
16:37 bshum There's a few branches floating around though, so berick might know which ones he wants people to poke with more specifically.
16:37 bshum But I had the most luck with that.
16:37 jeff a surprising number of things are tolerant of a mis-permissioned metabib.full_rec view.
16:37 jeff but added content is not one of those things.
16:38 jeff (owner/permissions on metabib.full_rec in a dev test db was wrong)
16:38 remingtron bshum: do you think a normal install is necessary, or could I just drop his template and js folders in place?
16:39 bshum remingtron: So what I actually did in the end was squashed all of berick's changes into a single commit and tacking that onto our custom blends we build.
16:40 bshum remingtron: From that squash, I can see changes to fm_IDL.xml, eg_vhost, and a perl module
16:40 bshum So it's not just as simple as just the templates and js
16:40 bshum Though that is the biggest part of files changed.
16:40 remingtron bshum++ #thanks for the info
16:40 bshum So... to be safe, I would still merge his branch into whatever you want to build from
16:41 bshum But that's up to you if you want to poke at all the commits and make more incremental changes to an existing system.
16:42 remingtron sounds like a fresh build is best. thanks
16:42 berick remingtron: what bshum said, but beware the latest code requires websockets opensrf.  change t_base_js.tt2 to avoid websockets (the opensrf_xhr.js bits and the comment out OpenSRF.Session.transport should do it).[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[​C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C
16:43 * berick curses this connection
16:43 bshum Ahh, didn't notice that in the newest branch
16:43 bshum My test build didn't include that fun stuff :)
16:43 bshum I pulled early
16:43 jeff kmlussier: the wifi at the evergreen conference this year was quite decent, especially in comparison to what i'm heading from code4lib 2014 :-)
16:44 * rfrasur concurs
16:44 * dbs nods vigorously
16:44 * csharp t rie s to type fffro m code4libbbbbbbbb
16:44 rfrasur hehe, nice
16:45 jeff and i am pleased to report that there was no $18/day charge on my bill for in-room wifi, either. :-)
16:45 dbs so csharp / bshum , have you written any selenium tests yet?
16:46 rfrasur jeff: that was also quite lovely.
16:46 * dbs is delighted to only be dealing with crappy wifi here
16:46 csharp dbs: nossir
16:46 dbs csharp: what are you waiting for? 15 minutes of intro so far! :)
16:46 jeff i need to look at selenium again. i think my last selenium tests were for jspac. :-)
16:46 csharp heh
16:47 jeff and they were more along the lines of "it takes HOW long to load X from a cold browser cache?"
16:47 dbs jeff: really good presentation on it right now
16:47 jeff awesome.
16:47 bshum dbs: I haven't poked at it, but I remember the lightning talk in vancouver about it
16:48 jeff <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="Microsoft Word 97">
16:48 jeff <TITLE>NOIMAGE1</TITLE>
16:49 phasefx we can make it easier for selenium tests too if we embed some non-localizable keywords to indicate state in the HTML we produce
16:50 phasefx then you can make assertions against the presence or absence of those keywords
16:50 dbs phasefx: that sounds kind of terrible, actually
16:51 phasefx I saw that in use when I researched it, but the whole practice of UI testing is kind of terrible IMO :)
16:52 phasefx why does that specifically sound terrible?
16:53 Dyrcona "the whole practice of software is kind of terrible" FTFY, phasefx.
16:53 Dyrcona :)
16:53 phasefx thanks man
16:53 dbs Dyrcona++
16:53 * Dyrcona is tired and cranky at the moment.
16:53 dbs phasefx: test the actual things in the UI, like class properties for state
16:54 * rfrasur is too.
16:54 Dyrcona rfrasur++ # for putting up with a different brand of crazy.
16:54 rfrasur I'm not sure how much I put up with it.  I feel like I'm nagging at people every five minutes.
16:55 * dbs takes meds these days and finds he's not as cranky (believe it or not)
16:55 phasefx dbs: I think I erred using a word like state; too strong.  What I read was that you aim for testing the widgets/controls, but don't go for testing functional behavior per se
16:55 * rfrasur takes a deep breath and goes to get some tea.
16:55 * csharp never saw much actual sign reading in his frontline public library staff days
16:56 rfrasur csharp: not even when the librarian is actually putting her hand under the words and reading it aloud?
16:56 rfrasur and explaining the motivation behind it?
16:56 csharp rfrasur: correct - even then
16:56 * rfrasur needs more than tea.
16:57 * Dyrcona is signing out for the day.
16:57 Dyrcona Have fun!
16:58 kmlussier jeff: Yes, I was generally pleased with the wifi, especially since we ultimately had to cut back on the bandwidth we could offer.
16:59 kmlussier jeff: And did you ultimately get your "oceans" of bandwidth in the guest rooms? :)
17:04 * rfrasur could stream Korean drama in the rooms.  It was a fair river at least.
17:07 rfrasur (because the internet is all about drama...and if it's Korean...it sounds smart)
17:11 phasefx 물론
17:12 rfrasur phasefx++
17:13 rfrasur character blocks are interesting in small spaces.
17:14 phasefx we could have some very dense UI's if we all read Korean or Chinese :)
17:14 rfrasur Yes, let's not (yet)
17:14 phasefx ;)
17:16 rfrasur I'd actually like to visit the Eunpyeong Public Library.  They have a filial piety collection, and I figure if I'm nice then I can talk to someone about translating EG into Korean.
17:16 phasefx that would rock
17:17 rfrasur yep :D and then the Japanese would just naturally start working on it...because who wants to be shown up?
17:18 rfrasur and then the Chinese could...since the Japanese would have already started with the hanja characters...and some Koreans as well...and eastern world domination.
17:18 * rfrasur has already planned it.
17:19 phasefx I think the Chinese have already beat the others to EG translations
17:20 rfrasur Really?
17:20 rfrasur hmm, that's okay.  plans are fluid.
17:22 phasefx maybe not a well maintained translation?  I don't know the state of things these days
17:23 rfrasur I'd be interested to find that out...for several reasons, but mostly because it's interesting.
17:23 phasefx and it looks pretty
17:23 phasefx armenian looks pretty too
17:24 jeff kmlussier: no, I don't believe the bandwidth I experienced qualified as "oceans of bandwidth" :-)
17:25 rfrasur Hmm, I've not seen it.  (but I will soon...like imminently)  Has Evergreen been translated to Hebrew, btw?
17:25 kmlussier jeff: Then I doubly happy that it didn't appear on your hotel bill.
17:25 kmlussier Have a nice night everyone!
17:26 mmorgan left #evergreen
17:26 rfrasur Hmm, Armenian has Greek flavors to it.  Okay, I need to go get ready for another program.  Be well, all y'all.  There will be cheesecake in the future.
17:29 gmcharlt mmm. cheesecake </homer_simpson_voice>
17:31 * jeff cocks his head and wonders why syndetics plus breaks out images for journals as a distinct from any other image element.
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19:19 bshum Bmagic++ # showing us his card tricks at dinner!
20:36 jeff '
20:36 jeff er.
20:36 jeff hi.
20:52 jeffdavis '
20:52 jeffdavis (gotta close them quotes)
20:54 jeff Glad I'm not the only one who does that, though usually to myself.
20:55 jeff huh. anyone remember the old old parody of the Good Times virus hoax? It was called "Bad Times", and the warning claimed that it would do crazily implausible things like "recalibrate your freezer's coolness setting so all your ice cream melts"?
20:56 jeff Apparently that parody of the hoax was created by Patrick Rothfuss (author of the Kingkiller Chronicle: The Name of the Wind, The Wise Man's Fear, etc.)
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