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| 09:04 |
rfrasur |
anyone know of a pdf converter that's free and doesn't stink? (sorry...not feeling good enough to think of a good search string for Google) |
| 09:06 |
jcamins |
rfrasur: what are you trying to convert to PDF? |
| 09:07 |
rfrasur |
no....convert a PDF to something editable. |
| 09:08 |
jcamins |
Oh. No idea, then. |
| 09:08 |
rfrasur |
:), ty though |
| 09:09 |
rfrasur |
was thinking I could get acrobat cheap through techsoup...but... |
| 09:09 |
rfrasur |
it's out of stock (for electronic delivery). Go figure. |
| 09:09 |
Dyrcona |
LibreOffice can at least import the PDF as graphics. |
| 09:09 |
Dyrcona |
I've used and the GIMP to do my tax forms. :) |
| 09:10 |
rfrasur |
And then just use text boxes? |
| 09:10 |
Dyrcona |
...used LibreOffice and the.... |
| 09:10 |
kmlussier |
rfrasur: Something that allows you to edit the PDF? Or something that converts it to a different file type that is editable? |
| 09:10 |
rfrasur |
kmlussier: I don't care. Whatever works and doesn't mess up the format too much |
| 09:11 |
kmlussier |
Foxit PDF Editor allows you to edit the PDF. |
| 09:11 |
rfrasur |
k, thank you. I'll look it up. |
| 09:11 |
Dyrcona |
Trouble is, PDF is basically owned by Adobe, and it is a lousy format anyway, but everyone uses it. |
| 09:11 |
rfrasur |
Dyrcona: yep |
| 09:11 |
* rfrasur |
is dealing with state forms. It's all PDF all the time. |
| 09:12 |
Dyrcona |
See what I said above about using the GIMP and LibreOffice to fill in PDF forms, that weren't PDF forms, but printed forms in PDF format. |
| 09:12 |
kmlussier |
rfrasur: No, wait. I think the free version only allows you to view the PDF. I must have been using a free trial when I edited. |
| 09:13 |
rfrasur |
kmlussier: I'm checking it out. They have some different options. |
| 09:13 |
Dyrcona |
The IRS never accepts my form electronically. They don't like me. |
| 09:14 |
rfrasur |
Dyrcona: I haven't actually filled out a paper form for the IRS in 10 years. |
| 09:14 |
Dyrcona |
I don't either. I fill out the PDF, then print it. :) |
| 09:14 |
rfrasur |
point taken :-) |
| 09:15 |
jeff |
the free Adobe Reader product can fill out forms and not save them, if they are saved as fillable-form PDFs. It can also fill out and save SOME special PDFs where the creator of the PDF has paid for a special license. |
| 09:15 |
rfrasur |
jeff: that's the thing. the form hasn't been saved as a fillable one. |
| 09:15 |
rfrasur |
why make things easy? |
| 09:15 |
Dyrcona |
I filed electronically until 2010 or so, after that they've rejected all of my electronic filings for one reason or another, so I don't bother. |
| 09:15 |
jeff |
this leads to lots of confusion, as it has changed over time -- and i think that "special license" may no longer be available unless you're the IRS or have previously purchased the license. :-) |
| 09:16 |
* rfrasur |
considers the typewriter for a second. |
| 09:16 |
Dyrcona |
If you use the GIMP or LibreOffice, it doesn't matter if the form is fillable or not. |
| 09:17 |
Dyrcona |
You're editing the graphic representation, so you just add your text in the appropriate places. |
| 09:17 |
rfrasur |
checking out libreoffice |
| 09:17 |
* rfrasur |
isn't on enough to deal with GIMP this morning |
| 09:17 |
Dyrcona |
OpenOffice should be able to do the same, but I don't recall if the PDF importer is still optional or was integrated. |
| 09:18 |
Dyrcona |
PDF import is integrated into LibreOffice. |
| 09:18 |
Dyrcona |
rfrasur: It still suck. You have to position the text fields just so and get the font size correct. |
| 09:19 |
rfrasur |
eh. that's okay. I think (said before actually trying it). |
| 09:19 |
Dyrcona |
Sometimes, I think the places that still give out PDF forms that they expect you to print should get them filled out with illegible cursive scrawl. |
| 09:19 |
rfrasur |
I agree |
| 09:20 |
Dyrcona |
"Illegible cursive scrawl" describes my handwriting, print or cursive. :) |
| 09:20 |
rfrasur |
Yeah, mine is getting there. The product of typing all the time. |
| 09:20 |
* Dyrcona |
often finds a note he wrote, tries to read it, and says "Dafuq!?" |
| 09:20 |
rfrasur |
heh |
| 09:21 |
kmlussier |
rfrasur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PDF_software#Editors |
| 09:22 |
rfrasur |
hmm, do I need to download the built in help before I run the installer? |
| 09:22 |
rfrasur |
kmlussier: thank you. that's helpful. |
| 09:23 |
Dyrcona |
Instead of saying that FPDF is missing from the development libraries list, maybe I should sign up for a wikipedia account and add it.... ;) |
| 09:24 |
kmlussier |
Dyrcona++ |
| 09:27 |
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| 09:28 |
rfrasur |
btw, y'all are awesome. Just saying. |
| 09:30 |
mrpeters |
inkscape should be able to handle it |
| 09:30 |
mrpeters |
i edit my pdf's in illustrator, inkscape is the open source clone of that |
| 09:32 |
rfrasur |
mrpeters: good to know. I actually have illustrator at home. |
| 09:33 |
rfrasur |
Oooo, libreoffice. Shiny. |
| 09:34 |
kmlussier |
November dev meeting availability poll - http://doodle.com/n9avnst6nvs2342g |
| 09:36 |
kmlussier |
I probably shouldn't have put the 15th on that poll. DIG hack-a-way day. |
| 09:41 |
rfrasur |
Libre Office IS touchy, but I like it. |
| 09:46 |
Dyrcona |
Seems my laptop has decided that it is a toaster today. |
| 09:46 |
rfrasur |
identity crisis? |
| 09:47 |
Dyrcona |
Could be... |
| 09:47 |
Dyrcona |
Fortunately, it is on my desk not on my lap. |
| 09:51 |
rfrasur |
I'm pretty spoiled w/ my laptop. I haven't looked it up or anything to see if it's true...but it's got a solid state HD and seems to run a little cooler. I don't like laptops actually on laps often anyway (that's what throw pillows are for...other than throwing). |
| 09:51 |
rfrasur |
Now if it just had a fold out double/triple monitor that didn't make it unbalanced... |
| 09:59 |
paxed |
how come this search finds only two hits: http://62.148.106.92/eg/opac/results?query=title%3A^decade%24 ...when there's also this: http://62.148.106.92/eg/opac/record/213825 |
| 10:02 |
paxed |
select * from metabib.real_full_rec where tag='245' and subfield='a' and value like 'decade'; returns all three. |
| 10:02 |
kmlussier |
paxed: IIRC, when I previously tested anchored searching, and exact match was an exact match. I suspect the forward slash is the reason why you aren't retrieving that record in your results. |
| 10:03 |
kmlussier |
s/and/an |
| 10:04 |
paxed |
oh. yes, you're right. |
| 10:04 |
paxed |
ffs |
| 10:06 |
paxed |
i expected it to find the exact title as shown in the search results screen. (without the slash at the end) |
| 10:08 |
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| 10:15 |
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| 10:16 |
paxed |
aaand reported that as a bug |
| 10:20 |
dbs |
aaand how do you resolve the counter-bug that will inevitably be filed that says "^decade$" should NOT return the title "DECADE /" |
| 10:20 |
paxed |
patrons won't care. |
| 10:21 |
paxed |
the search results clearly show the title without the forward slash. |
| 10:28 |
dbs |
I'm glad you're confident about that. Any other corner cases that should be handled? What about "Decade." or "Decade!" or "Decade++" or "Decade?" |
| 10:29 |
paxed |
the forward slash is due to cataloguing rules, not part of the title itself. |
| 10:30 |
kmlussier |
Yes, I can see a distinction between the forward slash and the other punctuation examples. Those puntuation marks are really part of the title. The forward slash is not. |
| 10:30 |
kmlussier |
Though, I've found we have many records with a period that doesn't belong there. |
| 10:31 |
Dyrcona |
I'm not even sure its the rules so much as cruft left over from earlier style with MARC records. |
| 10:31 |
* Dyrcona |
throws his hands up and mumbles something about MARC being synonymous with garbage. |
| 10:32 |
dbs |
I'm sure patrons would be just as upset if "^Decade$" did not return "Decade." because "obviously" the period should not be signficant |
| 10:32 |
Dyrcona |
What's obvious to one person isn't to someone else, unfortunately.... |
| 10:32 |
dbs |
Dyrcona: exactly |
| 10:33 |
kmlussier |
On a positive note, I noticed that bug 1030908 is no longer an issue as of 2.4. Are we still providing bug fixes for 2.3? |
| 10:33 |
Dyrcona |
I can imagine someone bitching that that it does show because they were deliberately trying to avoid that title. |
| 10:33 |
kmlussier |
pinesol_green has disappeared. :( |
| 10:33 |
bshum |
Hmm |
| 10:33 |
* bshum |
goes fishing |
| 10:33 |
dbs |
So, we need an exact search that runs against a more normalized version of metabib.full_record.value that strips out ... something ... |
| 10:33 |
Dyrcona |
pinesol_green must have tried to ingest some MARC. |
| 10:34 |
bshum |
Weird... |
| 10:34 |
dbs |
Don't we have one page per release with release dates & end-of-life and stuff like that? |
| 10:35 |
dbs |
I guess not. |
| 10:35 |
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| 10:35 |
Dyrcona |
It's all vague. |
| 10:36 |
paxed |
dbs: i'm not a cataloguer, so don't know the exact rules, but i'd guess whatever the search results screen does to the title would be good starting point ... |
| 10:36 |
Dyrcona |
Probably on purpose. |
| 10:36 |
kmlussier |
dbs I think all the details are contained in some long-ago e-mail to the list. |
| 10:37 |
Dyrcona |
It was probably agreed upon at a hacker's meeting at a conference, then ratified again in IRC, and probably then sent to the dev list, if not also general... |
| 10:37 |
Dyrcona |
But, hey, my brain stopped working months ago. |
| 10:39 |
dbs |
paxed: sure. I guess my concern with munging the database is that a change there means reingesting records, whereas if a site doesn't like the TPAC display, they just have to tweak misc_util.tt2 |
| 10:41 |
paxed |
kmlussier: re. periods where they don't belong, i guess it would be possible to weed out those titles that end in a period and do not have (a subfield that belongs to the title) following the title subfield |
| 10:42 |
Dyrcona |
Can we just burn MARC already, and AACR2, and RDA, and ....? |
| 10:43 |
paxed |
dbs: that MARC is stupid and has stupid workarounds that put extra characters where they are not part of the actual text is still something patrons shouldn't need to know or care about. |
| 10:46 |
dbs |
paxed: You say that like I'm arguing that patrons should be required to take a MARC class before touching the catalogue or something. |
| 10:47 |
collum |
I'm not a cataloger either, but isn't there typically a space before that slash, isn't there other punctuation that is used in MARC, as well? |
| 10:48 |
paxed |
yes, it's space+forward slash. full stop at least is another one. |
| 10:49 |
* dbs |
resolves to write a book with the title "The The /" and then spend the rest of his life telling libraries how stupid their catalogues are. |
| 10:49 |
rfrasur |
dbs: I was just thinking about a phrase that involved "librari*" and "stupid" |
| 10:50 |
Dyrcona |
The band The The beat you to the second part. |
| 10:50 |
rfrasur |
great minds? |
| 10:50 |
Dyrcona |
According to a cataloguer, the " /" appears when there is a subfield c, that is part of AACR2. |
| 10:50 |
dbs |
misc_util.tt2 does args.title | replace('[:;/]$', ''); if we want to be consistent with what the catalogue currently does. |
| 10:51 |
rfrasur |
Dyrcona: that's correct. Now, if you'd like a REASON, it has to do with how cards were typed. Yes...that's right. Another stupid typewriter artifact |
| 10:51 |
paxed |
dbs: sorry, i'm a bit cranky - didn't mean that to show ... |
| 10:51 |
Dyrcona |
rfrasur: That goes without saying. |
| 10:51 |
dbs |
paxed: Believe me, I understand being cranky. |
| 10:51 |
rfrasur |
Because why do things that make sense when you can just do the same...er..."stuff" you've always done. |
| 10:51 |
Dyrcona |
paxed: I never hide the cranky.... |
| 10:52 |
Dyrcona |
rfrasur: Goes back to something you mentioned about "thinking for themselves" yesterday. ;) |
| 10:53 |
dbs |
"In records formulated according to ISBD principles, subfield $a includes all the information up to and including the first mark of ISBD punctuation (e.g., an equal sign (=), a colon (:), a semicolon (;), or a slash (/)) or the medium designator (e.g., [microform])." |
| 10:53 |
collum |
rfrasur: Is that a library motto? |
| 10:53 |
dbs |
thanks to http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd245.html |
| 10:53 |
rfrasur |
Dyrcona: yup |
| 10:53 |
rfrasur |
collum: maybe I can get our board to approve it for our mission statement :D |
| 10:53 |
dbs |
so now we just need to track down the ISBD rules |
| 10:53 |
Dyrcona |
Is it too late to switch to TEI? |
| 10:54 |
* Dyrcona |
ducks the flying chairs. |
| 10:54 |
* rfrasur |
likes it |
| 10:55 |
dbs |
Oh there we go: http://books.google.ca/books?id=l1RV1sPSbwcC&lpg=PT8&ots=xe-Fjwu9KE&dq=isbd%20principles&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=isbd%20principles&f=false |
| 10:56 |
Dyrcona |
I like the isbd principles and the = false at the end. :) |
| 10:56 |
dbs |
hah |
| 10:56 |
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| 10:57 |
rfrasur |
Dyrcona: I think if we could actually function under some aspects of home rule, it wouldn't be as bad as it is. But that gets into a whole other argument (at least in Indiana)...and yeah. We spend as much time politicking as librarying or whatever. |
| 10:57 |
Dyrcona |
And all of my "nearby libraries" are in Georgia! |
| 10:57 |
Dyrcona |
Only 2 miles away! for Gwinnett County Public library. |
| 10:58 |
dbs |
better: http://books.google.ca/books?id=LRJ-4DAPOjQC&lpg=PA17&dq=isbd%20punctuation&pg=PA17#v=onepage&q=isbd%20punctuation&f=false |
| 10:58 |
jeff |
Hrm. Does anyone know offhand if given a TPAC record page and a cgi param plib= value supplied, should the copies at that plib sort to the top? |
| 10:58 |
bshum |
Funny, if I switch that .ca to .com, I can see what dbs is linking to. (I think) |
| 10:59 |
bshum |
:) |
| 10:59 |
jeff |
by my reading of the commit msg on commit 2cce48 i thought it should, but it's also possible i'm misreading, missing a bugfix, etc. |
| 10:59 |
jeff |
commit er, commit 2cce485 |
| 11:00 |
* jeff |
kicks pinesol_green |
| 11:00 |
dbs |
jeff, I think it depends on _get_pref_lib() |
| 11:00 |
dbs |
bshum: I'm just giving the link that Google told me to share! It's not my fault you're not in my country :) |
| 11:00 |
jeff |
dbs++ locg was getting in the way |
| 11:01 |
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| 11:01 |
jeff |
hrm. removing locg and adding a plib moves me from 2 results to 1 in this search. that's unexpected. time to learn more! |
| 11:02 |
dbs |
jeff: funny, because _get_pref_lib() shortcuts and returns plib if you have a plib GET param |
| 11:02 |
dbwells |
.ca links work fine for me, guess Michigan is Canadian enough |
| 11:02 |
dbs |
oh, damn, you're talking about record pages and not search results |
| 11:02 |
dbs |
dbwells++ |
| 11:02 |
jeff |
dbs: well, i was talking about record pages, but now i'm talking about search results. |
| 11:02 |
jeff |
dbwells: "occupied canada"? :-) |
| 11:03 |
dbs |
record pages and search results use entirely separate copy-retrieval logic :/ |
| 11:03 |
bshum |
Ha! |
| 11:03 |
jeff |
stepping back, i'm attempting to determine how tricky it would be to "prefer call numbers from lib X in search results" |
| 11:04 |
jeff |
i was looking at going it in get_marc_attrs at the TT level, but thought I might also be able to make use of existing unapi pref_lib logic. |
| 11:04 |
bshum |
@git repolist |
| 11:04 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: No repositories configured for this channel. |
| 11:04 |
jeff |
early information gathering stage. remembering all the little things i've forgotten. |
| 11:04 |
bshum |
... what? |
| 11:05 |
dbs |
jeff: call numbers vs. copies? |
| 11:05 |
dbs |
Yeah, there's lots of twisty passages in the unapi / record copy retrieval logic |
| 11:06 |
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pinesol_green joined #evergreen |
| 11:06 |
bshum |
@git repolist |
| 11:06 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: evergreen (Evergreen, branch: master) |
| 11:06 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: opensrf (OpenSRF, branch: master) |
| 11:06 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: evergreen_website (Evergreen Website, branch: master) |
| 11:06 |
bshum |
Better. |
| 11:06 |
bshum |
commit 2cce485 |
| 11:06 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Dan Scott] TPAC / unapi: Overhaul copy and located URI display - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=2cce485> |
| 11:06 |
bshum |
Whew |
| 11:08 |
jeff |
dbs: the call number displayed in a search results page is just the label of the first element under the <holdings> unapi xml. changing the sort order of the copies would fix it, but could have unintended side effects. :-) |
| 11:08 |
dbs |
wow, that is one long commit message |
| 11:09 |
mrpeters1 |
haha dbs++ |
| 11:09 |
mrpeters1 |
thanks for the new novel ;) |
| 11:09 |
jeff |
so it might be better for me to just add logic to tt or the perl layer for "prefer this call number" |
| 11:10 |
jeff |
decisions, decisions. :P |
| 11:10 |
dbs |
jeff: I'm still not 100% sure what you're trying to do; sorting by acn.owning_lib instead of acp.circ_lib when it comes to proximity? |
| 11:11 |
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| 11:13 |
jeff |
dbs: the desire is to have the call number displayed in search result pages prefer a specific library's call number if present. |
| 11:14 |
dbs |
oh. you mean in the non-detailed search result pages. I get it |
| 11:14 |
jeff |
ah, yes. |
| 11:15 |
* dbs |
pretends that non-detailed search result pages does not exist |
| 11:17 |
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| 11:17 |
bshum |
Hmm |
| 11:17 |
bshum |
I never noticed this before |
| 11:17 |
bshum |
But in Chrome browsers, if you conduct a search, it'll highlight the search terms you used in the search area on the results page |
| 11:18 |
bshum |
But it only does that when you're using the catalog without the autosuggest enabled. |
| 11:18 |
* Dyrcona |
noticed some time ago. |
| 11:18 |
bshum |
And only in Chrome. Firefox just puts the cursor at the end of the search terms |
| 11:19 |
bshum |
It didn't really jarr me till today when on my phone I was doing a search and then as I scrolled, I got hapnic feedback from the keyboard thinking that I had the highlighted search terms meant for typing something. |
| 11:19 |
bshum |
I think |
| 11:19 |
bshum |
Just weird. Not crazy. |
| 11:24 |
jeff |
bshum++ for jar + haptic feedback pairing, even if unintentional. :-) |
| 11:45 |
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| 12:01 |
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| 12:08 |
csharp |
does anyone have a good example of a "server add on" that you'd want to add? |
| 12:11 |
rfrasur |
what about a cappucino machine? |
| 12:12 |
csharp |
we already use server heat to grill delicacies :-D - I guess I'm thinking of the JSAN server add ons referred to here: http://evergreen-ils.org/documentation/previews/RELEASE_NOTES_2_5.html#_miscellaneous |
| 12:13 |
rfrasur |
oh, in that case, I got nothing. |
| 12:13 |
csharp |
nor does the Google |
| 12:14 |
* rfrasur |
is still trying to not go brain dead before the library's "Five Year Plan of Service" is completed. |
| 12:14 |
rfrasur |
"We plan to stay open and not be too crappy." |
| 12:17 |
jeff |
csharp: see 2.9.1. P.V. SUPA GoodStuff Integration |
| 12:17 |
jeff |
csharp: i believe that is the only current example of a server add-on. |
| 12:18 |
csharp |
jeff: ah - thanks |
| 12:18 |
jeff |
'welcome! |
| 12:26 |
rjackson-isl |
rfrasur - your comments regarding 5 year plan reminds me of time with EDS creating disaster recovery plans for Delco Electronics :-( |
| 12:26 |
rfrasur |
hehe |
| 12:26 |
* rfrasur |
has to do a disaster recovery plan as well. |
| 12:26 |
rjackson-isl |
copy and paste... |
| 12:27 |
rfrasur |
but...later. Hopefully the disaster doesn't happen before the plan. |
| 12:27 |
rfrasur |
and it has to come after the succession plan as well (in case I keel over...cuz it happens) |
| 12:27 |
rfrasur |
well, or get fired. that could happen too. |
| 12:27 |
rjackson-isl |
guess that one might actually have some meaning unfortunately! |
| 12:28 |
rfrasur |
eh, the librarians change but the library must live on. or something like that. |
| 12:28 |
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| 12:29 |
* rfrasur |
has no illusions about her replacability (sp?) |
| 12:30 |
rjackson-isl |
rjackson feels the same... waited for about 10 years in Kokomo for the axe to finally fall |
| 12:30 |
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| 12:30 |
rfrasur |
well, we're glad it did. EI is much better for you being involved with it. |
| 12:31 |
rfrasur |
Which is pretty self-serving on my part...your pain is our gain? |
| 12:31 |
rjackson-isl |
I hope so! Maybe my succession plan won't be used for a few more years! |
| 12:31 |
rfrasur |
I hope not. |
| 12:32 |
rjackson-isl |
On a positive note - Montpelier is up and running today! |
| 12:32 |
rfrasur |
new_member++ |
| 12:36 |
rfrasur |
lol, I think succession plans are positive though :D |
| 12:40 |
rjackson-isl |
rfrasur++ for documentation guru status! |
| 12:40 |
rfrasur |
hopefully. There's never enough documentation...unless it's crap documentation...and then it's pointless. |
| 12:47 |
mrpeters |
rjackson-isl: are you still using the google map? |
| 12:47 |
mrpeters |
in your staff client |
| 12:47 |
mrpeters |
Google is closing maps API V2 in 2 weeks, so your map will stop working if not upgraded. |
| 12:48 |
mrpeters |
wanted to let you know. i think the API key is registered to my personal gmail account so you may want to register for a new API key |
| 12:49 |
rjackson-isl |
thanks mrpeters for heads up |
| 12:49 |
mrpeters |
welcome. i can assist with converting it to API V3 now if need be :) |
| 12:52 |
jeff |
bug 1036318 seems to be showing up here. |
| 12:52 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1036318 in Evergreen 2.4 "OPAC timeout within the client" (affected: 12, heat: 64) [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1036318 |
| 12:56 |
rfrasur |
Hmm, do librarians count as being in the consumer electronics industry? |
| 12:58 |
Dyrcona |
rfrasur: If any librarian does, you do... :) |
| 12:58 |
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| 12:58 |
rfrasur |
Will you serve as a reference? Doesn't it make sense that librarians should go to stuff like CES...if they can afford it (another conversation altogether). |
| 12:59 |
Dyrcona |
Yes, it makes sense. Your patrons will be bringing those doo hickeys into the building next year. :) |
| 12:59 |
rfrasur |
or I/O...though that might be a little too technical for mainstream. |
| 13:01 |
* Dyrcona |
would like to get to more conferences. |
| 13:02 |
rfrasur |
I'd like to get to better conferences. |
| 13:03 |
rfrasur |
which is not to say they all stink...but library conferences have an awful lot of librarians at them. |
| 13:07 |
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| 13:09 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 13:11 |
* rfrasur |
gets a lot of work done while procrastinating. |
| 13:17 |
jeff |
yeah, signs point to memcached exhaustion. |
| 13:23 |
jcamins |
I have a question for people who know about public libraries. For a rural (very rural) public library, is 12k volumes a lot? |
| 13:24 |
rfrasur |
it's normal |
| 13:24 |
rfrasur |
what's the population size? |
| 13:24 |
Dyrcona |
Our "rural" libraries have two to three times that many, but we're not as rural as some places. |
| 13:24 |
jcamins |
A couple hundred. |
| 13:24 |
rfrasur |
oh...well, 12K is a lot for that. |
| 13:25 |
jcamins |
So small that the regional library system felt there weren't enough people to justify a branch. |
| 13:25 |
rfrasur |
Our service area is about 3500 and our collection is right around 36K...and we have too much stuff, imo. |
| 13:25 |
rfrasur |
The ratio should be a little closer to 6 or 7 items per capita for our library. |
| 13:26 |
rfrasur |
hmm, how does the regional system propose to serve those people? make them drive a long way? |
| 13:26 |
jcamins |
Yep. |
| 13:27 |
rfrasur |
utter bs |
| 13:27 |
jcamins |
Yeah, they abandoned the books, though, which is why I know how many books the library had. |
| 13:28 |
rfrasur |
they abandoned 12k books? just locked the doors and walked away? |
| 13:28 |
jcamins |
That's my understanding. A friends of the library group is trying to provide some sort of service. |
| 13:29 |
rfrasur |
I'd be interested to see what's included in that collection. Do a little "library forensics" and all that. |
| 13:32 |
dbs |
rfrasur: I'd say I/O is way too technical for mainstream. The keynote is almost entirely consumer-oriented, but 13/14 tracks of the rest of the conference is deep development focused. |
| 13:32 |
rfrasur |
dbs: that's what I saw from afar as well. |
| 13:33 |
Dyrcona |
jcamins: Just bust the locks and take it over. |
| 13:34 |
rfrasur |
Dyrcona++ #my thoughts exactly |
| 13:43 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Mike Rylander] Live pgTAP test for 0847, authority overlay generator fixes - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=3e7f6f1> |
| 13:44 |
rfrasur |
rjackson-isl: we haven't gotten an all clear for cataloging yet, have we? |
| 13:46 |
dbs |
eeevil: does that pgTAP test assume that concerto has been loaded, given the "FROM authority.record_entry WHERE id = 1" clause? |
| 13:48 |
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| 13:49 |
eeevil |
dbs: yes. I chose to follow the statement in the README for the stuff in live_t/ |
| 13:52 |
jeff |
would there be any objection / issues with a patch to allow password resets to accept a single value, "enter your library card number or username", with org unit regex backed tests for detecting "that's a barcode!" vs "not a barcode, try it as a usrname!" logic? |
| 13:53 |
jeff |
(similar to the logic used for logging in) |
| 13:53 |
rjackson-isl |
rfrasur - waiting green light from Anna |
| 13:53 |
rjackson-isl |
she is at Montpelier doing the go live |
| 13:53 |
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| 13:53 |
rfrasur |
rjackson-isl: okie. will relay. |
| 13:54 |
dbs |
eeevil: eh. okay. I'm not a big fan of that, personally, as we can't run that test on a production system. |
| 13:57 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Mike Rylander] Only one of these tests was valid, removing the bad one - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=a32f742> |
| 13:59 |
eeevil |
dbs: understood, and I'm not a /big/ fan either, but the mock env for that is (IMHO) more complicated (read: easy to get wrong) than the code it's testing or the test itself, and IIRC, we (as a community) generally aggreed to concerto as a testbed data set |
| 14:00 |
eeevil |
that said, the live test I just updated doe set up a nice mock env |
| 14:06 |
jeff |
storing auth sessions in memcached is handy because it's fast, and expiry is pretty much taken care of automatically. |
| 14:06 |
jeff |
it's less-handy because a memcached restart invalidates all sessions. |
| 14:06 |
jeff |
and in case of a full memcached slab, unexpired auth sessions will be evicted. |
| 14:07 |
phasefx_ |
I think there's room for independent tests and db-dependent tests.. I think the latter will be easier for most tests |
| 14:07 |
jeff |
i'm interested in backing sessions with a postgres table, while still using memcached for caching the sessions. if a session isn't found in memcached, we'd consult the database table next before returning an event. |
| 14:09 |
dbs |
The problem with the db-dependent tests is that as soon as you touch the database, you no longer can have confidence that your test suite is valid |
| 14:09 |
jeff |
expired sessions could be excluded from retrieval by a WHERE clause, and expired sessions could be routinely purged from the db table by a cron script. updating "last used" time could perhaps be done on a "every X interval" basis rather than on every use. |
| 14:10 |
jeff |
but i'm getting in the way of testing conversations. sorry. :-) |
| 14:10 |
dbs |
Which means that if you have a running instance, you have to go through a whole osrf-control --stop-all / eg_db_config --create-schema --load-all-sample / osrf-control --start-all routine for a clean test |
| 14:10 |
dbs |
I would strongly urge as little dependence on the sample db for unit tests as possible |
| 14:11 |
dbs |
jeff: we have room for concurrent discussions / monologues here :) |
| 14:12 |
eeevil |
jeff: if we have sessions in an unlogged table, I'm for it. those are new, of course, which is why tables weren't considered before |
| 14:13 |
dbs |
Sorry. I spent years with some responsibility for a sample database meant primarily for demonstrating a product that ended up not being able to be touched because our regression team built a ton of tests depending on it. |
| 14:13 |
eeevil |
dbs: urgings accepted. I'll toss reworking that test onto my pile unless someone else would like to work on a pre-existing test, for practice |
| 14:14 |
eeevil |
jeff: of course, unlogged tables, being unlogged, would not be replicated, so a db failure would take them out just like a memcache restart. though, in practice, those are /much/ rarer |
| 14:14 |
jeff |
eeevil: with unlogged tables and streaming replication, wouldn't all sessions cached in memcached lose their corresponding db table entry? |
| 14:14 |
jeff |
heh |
| 14:15 |
jeff |
your concern with wanting it unlogged is wal churn / replication traffic overhead? |
| 14:15 |
eeevil |
primarily |
| 14:16 |
eeevil |
and the inevitable "let's just keep the history forever" request ... I want to forestall /that/ as much as possible ;) |
| 14:16 |
jeff |
if the session's "last used" column was updated only at intervals as a function of a fraction of total authtime, that could probably be made pretty reasonable. |
| 14:16 |
jeff |
well, logging the table seems reasonable to me, but AUDITING the table just seems insane. ;-) |
| 14:16 |
jeff |
s/insane/like a very bad idea/ |
| 14:17 |
jeff |
and of course, depending on your WAL retention you really can keep it all. ;-) |
| 14:17 |
phasefx_ |
dbs: yeah, for ease of testing tests, I think independence is something to strive for.For testing production instances of EG, I'm not as interested in that.I'd rather see the barrier to entry for test creation be very low, and since it's not easy to do mock environments with EG's technology stack... :-/ with the vm I want to point ~live at, it'll be restoring to a pristine pre-EG snapshot |
| 14:17 |
phasefx_ |
every night |
| 14:17 |
eeevil |
but the other concern is, of course, memcache is orders of magnitude faster than pg |
| 14:18 |
* eeevil |
runs away for a few |
| 14:19 |
phasefx_ |
for pgTAP, our life is a bit easier, because of ROLLBACK's, etc. |
| 14:19 |
jeff |
right, which is why memcached would be consulted first, and postgres would come into play 1) when logging in, 2) when logging out, and 3) when memcached did not have a matching session -- then 4) is "once every configurable X interval to update the last used time" |
| 14:20 |
jeff |
and i suppose the whole thing could be configurable in terms of if you want to keep using unbacked memcached-only sessions. |
| 14:23 |
jeff |
but if you have a 2h staff authtime and only update the db table once every fraction*authtime (say, .5 for fraction) you'd be guaranteed that any sessions active within the last 1 hour would remain unexpired after a memcached flush/restart. |
| 14:23 |
paxed |
how do i add aliases for search classes? say, instead of "title:cat" i'd like to use "nimeke:cat". doing insert into config.metabib_search_alias (alias, field_class) values ('nimeke', 'title'); doesn't seem to work exactly... |
| 14:24 |
jeff |
paxed: have you restarted apache (and possibly also opensrf services) after making that change? |
| 14:24 |
jeff |
i do not know if that's enough to make the change take effect, but it's likely required. |
| 14:24 |
paxed |
ah. i'll try that. |
| 14:25 |
jeff |
also, to avoid memcached caching your previous attempt, you might need to use a new search term, or clear your previous search out of memcached (easiest is by restarting memcached, but that does do other things like invalidate auth sessions) |
| 14:25 |
jeff |
easiest is to add -xyzzy to your terms or something. |
| 14:25 |
paxed |
i'll restart everything - we're not live after all. |
| 14:26 |
phasefx_ |
speaking of tests, it looks like my test for closed dates and fine generation caught something (or it could be a faulty assumption within the test itself) |
| 14:26 |
jeff |
tests++ |
| 14:27 |
phasefx_ |
maybe something faulty involving DST |
| 14:27 |
phasefx_ |
DST-- |
| 14:27 |
paxed |
jeff: right, it required the restart. thanks :) |
| 14:31 |
eeevil |
paxed: yeah, a restart of the storage service would be required for that. unsure on apache, but maybe |
| 14:47 |
rfrasur |
jboyer-isl: it'd be nice to have an automated circ report every morning. |
| 14:47 |
jboyer-isl |
There's a recurring report option in the reporter. ;) |
| 14:48 |
jboyer-isl |
But what did you actually have in mind? |
| 14:48 |
rfrasur |
I know, but it won't work with my report because I have to change the date. I suspect it'd be easy to fix that though. |
| 14:48 |
rfrasur |
A button....you press it...and there are the circ numbers for yesterday. |
| 14:48 |
rfrasur |
:D |
| 14:48 |
jeff |
rfrasur: pick one of our libraries from the tadl stats dashboard that's close to your size/circ, and i'll see about getting you a daily report? ;-) |
| 14:49 |
rfrasur |
ooooo |
| 14:49 |
jeff |
unhelpful, I know. |
| 14:49 |
rfrasur |
well, fun though. |
| 14:50 |
jboyer-isl |
When you schedule the report you just need to change the dropdown from "Real Date" to "Relative Date" and leave it on the default "1 Day(s) ago," then schedule it to repeat every day. |
| 14:50 |
jeff |
"of the other participating libraries your size, you were #4 for circulation yesterday, and #2 for active unique patrons" |
| 14:51 |
* jeff |
dreams |
| 14:51 |
jeff |
(of things that may or may not be useful, but can sometimes be fun to build) |
| 14:51 |
rfrasur |
well, jeff, it sure is pretty. I do know that. |
| 14:53 |
rfrasur |
jboyer-isl, I don't even have to built a new template (hah...indeed...clone, more like)? |
| 14:54 |
rfrasur |
unbelievable the amount of time I've wasted not knowing that. |
| 14:54 |
rfrasur |
ty |
| 14:54 |
jboyer-isl |
You shouldn't have to, no. You just have to make all of the selections correctly: date, lib, repeating, etc. |
| 14:55 |
rfrasur |
it's done. and now i'll proceed with kicking myself. thank you. one dropdown menu and you've changed my life. |
| 15:01 |
rfrasur |
we'll see if I did it right in the morning. |
| 15:08 |
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| 15:11 |
jeff |
keep in mind that you'll still need to log in to actually see the report -- you'll just receive an email saying "report's done, here's a link:" |
| 15:12 |
rfrasur |
that's cool. so long as I get a notification, I'll check it...except maybe on the weekend, but can just rerun the one off report |
| 15:12 |
rfrasur |
rather than having(?) to manually run every daily report at the end of the month |
| 15:12 |
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| 15:12 |
jeff |
heh. had a selfcheck that would routinely lose its SIP connection. investigated, and sure enough -- checksums were enabled. |
| 15:13 |
jeff |
rfrasur: why do you currently re-run every daily report at the end of the month? |
| 15:13 |
rfrasur |
well, I just RUN them all at the end of the month. Because I hadn't fixed it to be recurring because I hadn't noticed the drop down menu. |
| 15:14 |
jeff |
sure, but why do you run them all, in terms of daily ones? |
| 15:14 |
rfrasur |
oh, because I keep track of the daily breakdown of our computer usage. |
| 15:15 |
rfrasur |
and notice the other stuff...kinda |
| 15:17 |
jeff |
do you have one report that groups the figures by day for a given month? |
| 15:17 |
jeff |
or are you running 28-31 reports at the end of each month? |
| 15:17 |
rfrasur |
nope. and yep |
| 15:18 |
jeff |
is there a reason you can't do it in one report? |
| 15:18 |
rfrasur |
of course, I recognize that there's a better way...but I haven't had the time to figure out the "one report" |
| 15:20 |
jeff |
got it. i understand. :-) |
| 15:21 |
rfrasur |
it's mildly frustrating, but not frustrating enough to make me do something about it...yet. |
| 15:22 |
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| 15:23 |
jeff |
grain of sand, not yet a pearl. |
| 15:24 |
Dyrcona |
rfrasur: Dont' feel bad. I haven't figured out the reports doo hickey at all. |
| 15:24 |
rfrasur |
lol, Dyrcona: it's actually kinda fun if you have the time to muck about. |
| 15:24 |
rfrasur |
well, time and inclination |
| 15:25 |
Dyrcona |
last time i tried, i was getting the tables from the wrong place or something and instead of the joins happening on indexes, i ended up with scans on the cartesian products of a couple of tables. |
| 15:25 |
rfrasur |
see, I can't even see what's going on...and I'm just assuming that everything is behaving correctly. |
| 15:26 |
Dyrcona |
I also figure why bother when I can just open a text editor, write a query, and run it in the database directly. |
| 15:26 |
rfrasur |
;-) |
| 15:27 |
rfrasur |
you probably get cleaner and more efficient information |
| 15:27 |
* Dyrcona |
deletes yet another email to the dev list about testing before sending it. |
| 15:27 |
Dyrcona |
No, I get the same information. I just have to navigate Byzantium to get it. |
| 15:28 |
rfrasur |
:-) |
| 15:28 |
Dyrcona |
Damn my fingers. |
| 15:28 |
Dyrcona |
Should have a don't in there. |
| 15:29 |
Dyrcona |
I just don't have to... |
| 15:29 |
rfrasur |
lol, that makes more sense |
| 15:29 |
* Dyrcona |
flips the toast on his laptop and calls it a day. |
| 15:32 |
* rfrasur |
loves this library's shelving location "wholesome reading" |
| 15:46 |
Dyrcona |
+1 to rewrite Evergreen to support unit testing! |
| 15:47 |
eeevil |
Dycona: in java? |
| 15:48 |
Dyrcona |
Nope, erlang! |
| 15:48 |
phasefx_ |
I think that's a good choice |
| 15:49 |
eeevil |
it's already typeless in Perl, so, sure |
| 15:49 |
Dyrcona |
phasefx_: My +1 was an impromptu response your latest dev list email. |
| 15:49 |
phasefx_ |
hello_world() -> io:fwrite("hello world\n"). |
| 15:49 |
Dyrcona |
I agree that most of the testing should use Concerto. |
| 15:50 |
phasefx_ |
I really feel for the other POV; my instinct is to run tests over and over really quickly |
| 15:51 |
Dyrcona |
My own instinct is to say tests only test what they test, and when you run a production system your users are far more creative than your testers. |
| 15:51 |
phasefx_ |
production systems are tests in their own right :) |
| 16:02 |
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| 16:04 |
gsams |
csharp: thanks for the info on reports. I had a feeling it was about like that. |
| 16:22 |
* rfrasur |
thinks about how to automate ALL her reports using recurrance. |
| 16:22 |
rfrasur |
muahahahahah |
| 16:22 |
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| 16:28 |
rfrasur |
Yeah buddy. We'll see if it worked on Dec. 2 :D |
| 16:33 |
rfrasur |
hmm, I think our account holders dropped dramatically from the new automated stuff with expired accounts. |
| 16:39 |
jeff |
likely, if you were reporting on long-expired patrons previously. |
| 16:39 |
jeff |
as opposed to "active patrons", where active is defined as something like checking out a book / using a computer / not more than X months/years expired |
| 16:39 |
rfrasur |
yep. we were dealing with it manually...and my person who was dealing with it wasn't particularly efficient |
| 16:40 |
rfrasur |
and jboyer-isl recently deployed a script (that has made her need to fill her time in other ways) that did it all pretty instantly. |
| 16:40 |
rfrasur |
and we dropped by 1k patrons |
| 16:41 |
rfrasur |
which is a little disconcerting since it's 2/5 of accounts. |
| 16:41 |
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| 16:48 |
jeff |
rfrasur: yeah, i can imagine. |
| 16:49 |
jeff |
rfrasur: what criteria were used previously, vs now? |
| 16:49 |
* rfrasur |
just rolls with it. |
| 16:50 |
rfrasur |
Well, I'm not entirely sure what the criteria is now. It was...if they've been expired for more than a year and have free and clear accounts, they get taken out of the system. If they have fines/fees, they get marked inactive. |
| 16:50 |
rfrasur |
I think it might be a little tighter than a year now though. |
| 16:51 |
rfrasur |
It doesn't matter though. The script is 50 million x more efficient than my employee who takes it personally when she has to delete the account of a person she knows. |
| 16:56 |
jeff |
it would be an interesting thing if more libraries used the kinds of retention methods that other institutions use. "haven't seen you in a while, check out some of our newest events/services/items" email / postcard, etc. |
| 16:57 |
rfrasur |
it's something we hope to implement, but the record keeping has been such a time sink in the past (and, by extension, a money sink) that those kind of things weren't feasible. As we get a little more streamlined and a little smarter in general, we can start doing that. |
| 16:58 |
Dyrcona |
I wish some of them were a little less efficient. |
| 16:58 |
jeff |
actually, we have enough patrons and an email service, we could totally run a test or two -- one group of patrons as control. one group of patrons that get an automated email... examine and compare those that saw activity after X weeks of receiving the email vs those that were not sent an email... |
| 16:58 |
rfrasur |
I mean, we're running a food for fines thing right now that, honestly, we should have looked up every person that it applies to and direct mailed them. |
| 16:58 |
jeff |
rfrasur: yeah. we did a big amnesty mailing a while back. direct first class mail to all patrons with outstanding items saying "bring 'em back, slate's wiped clean" |
| 16:58 |
rfrasur |
(our community interaction sucks...but that's my fault now) |
| 16:59 |
jeff |
this was a post-migration pre-reinstitution-of-fines thing. |
| 17:00 |
jeff |
Dyrcona: you wish some of what things were a little less efficient? |
| 17:00 |
rfrasur |
I dunno what they did here after escaping from Incolsa-Koha |
| 17:01 |
Dyrcona |
I keep getting junk mail for someone who died over a decade ago. It has even followed through a couple of address changes. |
| 17:01 |
Dyrcona |
And, this person and I just happen to have the same last name and lived in the same city once. |
| 17:02 |
rfrasur |
hmm, maybe a national health service db? :D |
| 17:02 |
Dyrcona |
Computers allow you to make more mistakes faster than any invention since tequila and handguns. |
| 17:02 |
rfrasur |
true true. |
| 17:03 |
rfrasur |
hah, it's the first thing I tell anyone in a computer class. Computers are smarter than you. They're faster than you. They're only as smart as the person messing with them. |
| 17:03 |
* rfrasur |
doesn't say "so don't be surprised if the thing blows up after you've touched it for a week...because you're a moron." |
| 17:08 |
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| 17:17 |
rfrasur |
The sweet sounds of peace after kicking out that one obnoxious teen. |
| 17:22 |
jeff |
i saw a halloween costume idea this year that incorporated a "morph suit". thought of your library. |
| 17:23 |
rfrasur |
hah! It's the same kid I just kicked out. |
| 17:24 |
rfrasur |
well, one of them. |
| 17:24 |
rfrasur |
(dear God, our claim to fame is morph suited teens) |
| 17:26 |
Dyrcona |
Do they also do the Harlem Shake? |
| 17:26 |
rfrasur |
They did. Now they twerk. |
| 17:26 |
Dyrcona |
You have my permission to shoot them. |
| 17:26 |
rfrasur |
thank you |
| 17:28 |
* rfrasur |
is curious how we have a new nonresident account but no one ever paid a nonresident fee. |
| 17:30 |
Dyrcona |
Ah, well. Time to shut the toaster down. |
| 17:48 |
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| 17:48 |
rfrasur |
jboyer-isl: are you still around? |
| 17:51 |
rfrasur |
k, no. will ask tomorrow then. |
| 18:11 |
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| 18:50 |
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| 18:51 |
rfrasur |
Does anyone know what the billing type numbers mean or if they're listed somewhere? |
| 18:54 |
jeffdavis |
They're in the config.billing_type table I think... |
| 18:57 |
rfrasur |
I dunno how to find/look at that. I found something that might be the right info (w00t Google) |
| 18:59 |
jeffdavis |
rfrasur: http://pastebin.com/20ncfwSz <- those are the default values I believe |
| 19:00 |
rfrasur |
rock on. that's better than what I found |
| 19:02 |
rfrasur |
jeffdavis++ |
| 19:02 |
jeffdavis |
glad to help :) |
| 19:02 |
rfrasur |
:D |
| 19:29 |
* rfrasur |
is not communicating well with the db |
| 19:39 |
jeff |
rfrasur: any specific issues? |
| 19:40 |
rfrasur |
oh, not really. It's working well enough. Just trying to decide exactly what I need it to do and how to phrase it and how I want it to show it to me. I've got it pieced together enough to make it work. It's just not pretty. |
| 19:41 |
rfrasur |
hmm, and wondering how this guy has $1900 for a total billing |
| 19:42 |
jeff |
19.00 gone wrong? |
| 19:42 |
rfrasur |
I want a list of people with only overdue fees but nothing else. |
| 19:43 |
rfrasur |
yeah, that's what the 1.9k is, I'm sure. |
| 19:44 |
jeff |
i don't remember -- does the reporter have a "not in list" filter? |
| 19:44 |
jeff |
i suppose i should fire it up. |
| 19:44 |
rfrasur |
it does |
| 19:45 |
rfrasur |
but "not in 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,101" is pretty much the same as "in 1," isn't it? |
| 19:46 |
jeff |
no, because "in 1" is going to give you patrons who also have other billings. |
| 19:46 |
jeff |
or is that okay? |
| 19:46 |
rfrasur |
I need something like "stuff in 1" but "nothing in 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,101" |
| 19:46 |
rfrasur |
hmm, let me try both and compare |
| 19:48 |
* rfrasur |
twiddles thumbs while the gears turn |
| 19:49 |
rfrasur |
on a side note, looking through a list of people that owe money is depressing |
| 19:52 |
rfrasur |
yeah, it's the same list |
| 19:53 |
rfrasur |
hmm, I really need to go home. Will work on it tomorrow. Thank you. |
| 19:56 |
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