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| 07:33 |
bshum |
dbs: Dyrcona, gmcharlt, and I were discussing that earlier this week. I sent the student an email the other night to touch base. Going to try harder to get some details as soon as possible... |
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| 08:19 |
jboyer-isl |
Anyone at their keyboard this morning with action trigger expertise? Or even a passing familiarity? |
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| 08:43 |
_bott_ |
jboyer-isl: I'll chime in for passing familiarity |
| 08:44 |
jboyer-isl |
Good to hear. |
| 08:44 |
jboyer-isl |
I don't know how good of an idea it is, but there's a process here that checks to see if our utility server is running out of children, and if that message appears more than 10 times, it restarts all of the services on that machine. |
| 08:45 |
jboyer-isl |
The reason I don't think it's a good idea is that now we have absolutely tons of events that are stuck in the "in-between" states like validating, valid, collected (soo many of those), and reacted. |
| 08:45 |
Dyrcona |
jboyer-isl: If you're running out of children that often, it usually means you need to configure more. |
| 08:46 |
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| 08:46 |
jboyer-isl |
That's what I thought, but I also wanted to ask how many other sites are running. We're up to 100 cstore children, are several sites sticking to the default, or way higher? I was considering 200. |
| 08:47 |
_bott_ |
Is it a particular type of event that seems to occur? Does this happen during daily overdues, or something similar? |
| 08:47 |
jboyer-isl |
What I'm also wondering is if deleting the events that are stuck will cause them to be re-collected and get through the process. |
| 08:47 |
Dyrcona |
We upped our cstore children almost immediately after our migration. Hang on and I'll see what we're at. |
| 08:48 |
jboyer-isl |
_bott_: sadly, no. It doesn't happen regularly, maybe once every 2 weeks or so. Might be related to overdue/courtesy notices since those can come and go in number. |
| 08:49 |
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| 08:51 |
Dyrcona |
Our cstore max_children is at 100. |
| 08:53 |
Dyrcona |
I think most of our other services are higher than the defaults, too. |
| 08:56 |
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| 09:02 |
jboyer-isl |
Dyrcona: so I can try to compare halfway sensibly, about how many libraries are in your consortium? For example, if you're running with 100 children and only have 20 libraries, then we've done something terribly wrong. |
| 09:02 |
Dyrcona |
jboyer-isl: We have 35 members with about 40 locations. We also have fairly heavy use of the catalog by patrons. |
| 09:03 |
Dyrcona |
We only run the 1 server, so we're not using bricks or multiple servers for the applications. |
| 09:03 |
jboyer-isl |
Oh my. We've got over 100 systems and I think 125 or more locations. |
| 09:04 |
jboyer-isl |
Our A/T stuff is run on a single server, that's probably not going to cut it with 100 children. |
| 09:05 |
Dyrcona |
jboyer-isl: We upped ours, IIRC, after one of our larger members tried to look at their hold shelf list or their pull list, and it died after using up 24 children for that one act alone. |
| 09:05 |
jboyer-isl |
(We only raised it from 60 to 100 within the last month, too. :/ ) |
| 09:06 |
Dyrcona |
Ours has been at 100 since June of 2011. |
| 09:06 |
Dyrcona |
If you're running services separately on your A/T machine, then you could adjust it and leave the others untouched. |
| 09:06 |
Dyrcona |
I'm not sure of your configuration, though. |
| 09:08 |
jboyer-isl |
We've got 5 app bricks, 1 utility server and technically 1.5 database machines. (No pooling yet, that's another project I'm working toward.) |
| 09:08 |
jboyer-isl |
Thanks for the info, I'll do some math and see if I can't get our utility machine to stop wheezing. |
| 09:10 |
_bott_ |
Heh. We've got 3 bricks + utility, 2 DBs + reporter ...for 1 system 8 locations. No wonder I don't see these issues. |
| 09:10 |
jboyer-isl |
But I'll bet it's a happy system. :D |
| 09:11 |
_bott_ |
I sleep well |
| 09:30 |
csharp |
jboyer-isl: late to the conversation, but we have 72 max children per brick (6 bricks) |
| 09:30 |
csharp |
(cstore) |
| 09:30 |
jboyer-isl |
Where do you run your A/T events? |
| 09:31 |
csharp |
jboyer-isl: our utility server |
| 09:31 |
csharp |
there we appear to have 15 max cstore children |
| 09:32 |
jboyer-isl |
15 or 150? |
| 09:32 |
csharp |
15 |
| 09:32 |
csharp |
;-) |
| 09:32 |
jboyer-isl |
Seems low. That doesn't cause any problems? |
| 09:32 |
csharp |
not that we've seen |
| 09:33 |
jboyer-isl |
Huh. |
| 09:33 |
csharp |
I didn't realize it was that low, actually |
| 09:33 |
csharp |
obviously not causing noticeable issues though |
| 09:33 |
jboyer-isl |
That's good. |
| 09:33 |
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| 09:35 |
csharp |
jboyer-isl: are your A/T processes granular? |
| 09:35 |
csharp |
or are you just processing everything at once? |
| 09:36 |
csharp |
we had a problem just after our 2.1 upgrade where A/T would run, then die without telling anybody |
| 09:36 |
csharp |
the solution was to make it more granular |
| 09:38 |
pastebot |
"csharp" at 204.193.129.146 pasted "PINES A/T cron setup" (12 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/12 |
| 09:38 |
jboyer-isl |
granular, but there are things every 2 mins, 3 mins, hourly, daily, multi-day, etc. some of them have to be hitting around the same time. |
| 09:38 |
csharp |
note that we aren't yet using A/T for overdue/pre-overdue notices |
| 09:38 |
csharp |
still using legacy scripts |
| 09:39 |
jboyer-isl |
Ah, we're using A/T for pre-due emails, day of, and a couple levels of overdue. |
| 09:40 |
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| 09:40 |
pastebot |
"jboyer-isl" at 204.193.129.146 pasted "EI A/T entries" (26 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/13 |
| 09:41 |
jboyer-isl |
It looks to me though, from what your setup looks like and what ours is doing, we pile things up every couple of minutes, but only really "run" things every 30. I really haven't looked into how this stuff works much. |
| 09:42 |
jboyer-isl |
I also, apparently, use a lot of commas, it seems... |
| 09:42 |
csharp |
yeah, I can see how that would add up as far as processing goes |
| 09:43 |
jboyer-isl |
No, I misread. I didn't see the --run-pending that's in all of the ganularity lines. I'm really not certain what the first line is doing then. :/ |
| 09:45 |
csharp |
hmm - that's how ESI had it set before |
| 09:46 |
csharp |
I have had to reverse engineer everything I know about A/T |
| 09:47 |
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| 09:47 |
csharp |
looks like we process hooks nightly, then hourly/daily for those granularity settings |
| 09:47 |
jboyer-isl |
I was about to open action_trigger_runner.pl and just start reading, may have to wait until I get back from offsite backup duty. |
| 09:48 |
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| 09:48 |
csharp |
jboyer-isl: yeah - most of the business logic is in the perl libs |
| 09:49 |
csharp |
not a lot of inline documentation and not a lot of INFO-level logging iirc |
| 09:49 |
jboyer-isl |
#XXX need to figure out why this is required... |
| 09:49 |
jboyer-isl |
Now I have a headache. |
| 09:49 |
csharp |
heh - exactly |
| 09:50 |
jboyer-isl |
Well this will have to wait, that rabbit hole is too deep. |
| 09:50 |
jboyer-isl |
Thanks for the info csharp! |
| 09:51 |
csharp |
jboyer-isl: sure - I'm sure we'll hit more issues when we move to A/T overdue notices |
| 09:54 |
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| 10:14 |
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| 10:29 |
bshum |
Unrelated, Happy SysAdminDay to my fellow Evergreeners. |
| 10:45 |
gmcharlt |
there is one? where is she? |
| 10:45 |
gmcharlt |
;) |
| 10:51 |
csharp |
bshum: and to you! |
| 10:51 |
csharp |
(we'll have to be happy congratulating each other since no non-sys-admins even know there is such a day) |
| 10:51 |
csharp |
WHERE'S MY FRUIT BASKET?! |
| 10:52 |
gmcharlt |
csharp++ |
| 10:52 |
* Dyrcona |
is a fruit basket after most days. |
| 10:52 |
csharp |
Dyrcona++ |
| 10:53 |
* Dyrcona |
wishes everyone a happy day, regardless. |
| 11:01 |
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| 11:02 |
Brenda_ |
I needing some information on your ils system |
| 11:02 |
Dyrcona |
Brenda_: Just ask any questions that you have. |
| 11:04 |
Brenda_ |
I am a Library science student and doing a product review for a small rural library. What is the cost in using the evergreen ils system |
| 11:04 |
Dyrcona |
Brenda_: It's nominally free. However, if you lack expertise in GNU/Linux, you'll need someone else to host it for you and that varies by vendor. |
| 11:05 |
Brenda_ |
what models are avaiable |
| 11:05 |
Dyrcona |
What do you mean by "models?" |
| 11:06 |
Brenda_ |
sorry modules |
| 11:06 |
csharp |
Brenda_: other costs to consider: migrating from one system to another, training, possible equipment upgrades, etc. |
| 11:07 |
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| 11:07 |
Brenda_ |
the library is a running a legacy system. How would I know what i need |
| 11:07 |
Dyrcona |
Brenda_: Have you had a look at this: http://www.evergreen-ils.org/ |
| 11:07 |
Brenda_ |
yes, i am on website |
| 11:07 |
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| 11:10 |
Dyrcona |
What you need depends on a number of factors: how many branches, how many staff and patrons, how many bibliographic records, how many copies, how much circulation, etc. |
| 11:11 |
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| 11:12 |
Brenda_ |
staff would be 1 full time and 3 part time and small rual library is all i have. can you give me a idea to work with |
| 11:13 |
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| 11:14 |
Dyrcona |
I'm not very good at guessing. |
| 11:15 |
csharp |
Brenda_: you will probably want to gather more specifics before proceeding, since a lot of the answers to your questions depend on multiple factors |
| 11:15 |
Brenda_ |
what is the training and technical support avaible and is their any hardware needed |
| 11:15 |
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| 11:16 |
csharp |
Brenda_: have you seen this? http://www.open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=faqs:evergreen_faq_1 |
| 11:17 |
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| 11:17 |
csharp |
Brenda_: this is a loosely-moderated list of tech support vendors that offer Evergreen support: http://www.open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=faqs:evergreen_companies |
| 11:20 |
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| 11:20 |
Dyrcona |
heh. I should put myself on that list.... ;) |
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| 11:32 |
rfrasur |
wonderful, blessed last day of summer library program |
| 11:32 |
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| 11:39 |
csharp |
@eightball will the fall be less hectic? |
| 11:39 |
pinesol_green |
csharp: Come again? |
| 11:40 |
rfrasur |
eightball isn't always right. Just saying. Of course it will be less hectic. Let's just hope it's not because a snow storm or hurricane knocks out the electricity. |
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| 11:55 |
mcooper |
anybody else finding search_authority_batch_by_simple_normalize_heading problematic in the context of the fixed validate button in the marc editor with large numbers of authority records in the database? |
| 11:56 |
mcooper |
produces sql like: http://pastebin.com/Q7xkdwkW |
| 11:56 |
mcooper |
which takes forever ... |
| 11:56 |
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| 11:57 |
Phenol |
Has anyone migrated from Unicorn to Evergreen and run into a issue with the CIRCNOTE on he 999 tag? |
| 11:57 |
mcooper |
Phenol: what's the problem exactly? |
| 11:58 |
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| 11:58 |
Phenol |
when migrating if the holding has a CIRCNOTE with it stats the tag 999 to have 2 code 'a' |
| 11:58 |
Phenol |
with with the call number |
| 11:58 |
Phenol |
the other with the CIRCNOTE actual note |
| 11:59 |
Phenol |
and I run into dupe 'a' fields |
| 12:00 |
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| 12:02 |
mcooper |
Phenol: is the holding field configurable with unicorn? i know another sd ils that let you define the subfield mapping for holdings |
| 12:03 |
Phenol |
if It is I don't know where it would be. I don' know Unicorn that well... |
| 12:03 |
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| 12:04 |
Phenol |
I was trying to export the 999 holdings without the circnote |
| 12:04 |
Phenol |
but I didn't see an option for that either |
| 12:04 |
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| 12:10 |
eeevil |
mcooper: an index using that stored proc look needed to me |
| 12:11 |
mcooper |
Phenol: not sure what your general process is but one idea: update the subfield code of CIRCNOTE to something unique using marc::record or rubymarc, or maybe marcedit |
| 12:11 |
Dyrcona |
eeevil mcooper: I was going to suggest searching authority.full_rec joined with authority.record_entry to exclude deleted. |
| 12:12 |
mcooper |
eeevil: thanks! will look into it -- and, is that a candidate for a wishlist item on launchpad? |
| 12:12 |
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| 12:13 |
Dyrcona |
Oh, my mistake. I missed part of the question. |
| 12:13 |
eeevil |
mcooper: absolutely ... IIRC, there /was/ such an index before ... maybe it was the unique index that was checking for collisions, but was too strict given data in the wild |
| 12:14 |
mcooper |
eeevil++ |
| 12:15 |
eeevil |
so... yeah. there was an index like that, going back to 2.2, crated by 0575 |
| 12:15 |
eeevil |
created |
| 12:15 |
eeevil |
also listed in 800.fkeys.sql |
| 12:16 |
eeevil |
CREATE INDEX by_heading ON authority.record_entry (authority.simple_normalize_heading(marc)) WHERE deleted IS FALSE or deleted = FALSE; |
| 12:16 |
rfrasur |
eeevil++ # good job on the release |
| 12:16 |
eeevil |
not sure why you don't have that... |
| 12:16 |
eeevil |
rfrasur: thanks :) |
| 12:16 |
rfrasur |
nope...thank you |
| 12:17 |
mcooper |
eeevil: that's something very concrete for me to look into -- awesome, thanks a lot! |
| 12:18 |
eeevil |
mcooper: I'd just stick a CONCURRENTLY in there between INDEX and by_heading and run it, were I you ... won't hurt, and /will/ help :) |
| 12:24 |
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| 13:38 |
jeff_ |
woo. going live with NCIP and the state resource sharing system somewhere between Monday and Thursday of next week. |
| 13:39 |
rfrasur |
jeff_++ # I'll be very interested to hear how the whole thing goes. Not sure if we could do something similar here, but it'd sure be awesome if we could. |
| 13:40 |
jeff_ |
rfrasur: your patrons can place holds which are then filled by any other library within Evergreen Indiana, right? |
| 13:40 |
rfrasur |
yep |
| 13:40 |
jeff_ |
rfrasur: in my experience, stick with that. :-) |
| 13:41 |
rfrasur |
but for the statewide resource sharing, we use an OCLC product |
| 13:41 |
rfrasur |
firstshare? (I only know enough to have someone else train someone else) |
| 13:42 |
jboyer-isl |
FirstSearch. My wife used to do ILL at JCPL. |
| 13:42 |
rfrasur |
and it's completely separate from EG, so no number are pulled into the ILS. Some libs use temp barcodes and pre-cat or other work arounds. |
| 13:43 |
rfrasur |
Yes, FirstSearch...ty. (I might have been combining FirstSearch and WorldShare?). It works, obviously, but it's not very elegant. |
| 13:44 |
jeff_ |
(integrate all the things!) |
| 13:44 |
rfrasur |
yes! |
| 13:44 |
* Dyrcona |
swings the Hammer of Disintegration. |
| 13:44 |
rfrasur |
Noooooo! |
| 13:45 |
rfrasur |
Please wait until 7 p.m. to truly give it a good swing. |
| 13:45 |
jcamins |
Oy! Watch it with that thing! Someone was waving it around for fun a few years ago and hit Koha's C4::Search! |
| 13:46 |
* Dyrcona |
notes that it is always 7pm somewhere. |
| 13:46 |
rfrasur |
7 p.m. EST tyvm |
| 13:48 |
Dyrcona |
So, 8 pm EDT? |
| 13:48 |
Dyrcona |
Isn't time fun? |
| 13:48 |
rfrasur |
o.0 |
| 13:48 |
jeff_ |
oh good. duplicate NCIP message detection code which I was going to modify to work in a multi-server environment is no longer required. |
| 13:49 |
Dyrcona |
jeff_: That was one piece of iNCIPit that bugged me. Why do you need duplicate message detection code? |
| 13:49 |
* rfrasur |
lives in Indiana....whatever time we are is standard. |
| 13:49 |
rfrasur |
(damn daylight savings time) |
| 13:50 |
Dyrcona |
Damn time. I'll just get up and do things when I damned good and ready. ;) |
| 13:51 |
rfrasur |
Dyrcona++ #except swinging the Hammer of Disintegration which will be after 7 p.m. Indiana Time |
| 13:51 |
jeff_ |
Dyrcona: long answer short, you don't. |
| 13:57 |
Dyrcona |
I notice that there have been no changes to the code on github for a while. |
| 13:57 |
Dyrcona |
Is that what you are running, jeff_? |
| 14:00 |
jeff |
i need to rip out the hardcoded bits into a config and update the repo in tadl's github org. i'm not as concerned about ensuring that we have a logical history of this thing -- i think that's no longer attainable. |
| 14:00 |
jeff |
email and IM are poor methods of revision control. |
| 14:01 |
Dyrcona |
Yes, they are. |
| 14:01 |
Dyrcona |
I use git as a sort of distribution mechanism, too. |
| 14:02 |
Dyrcona |
I edit the code on the laptop and then push to the server to test it. |
| 14:02 |
* jeff |
nods |
| 14:07 |
jeff |
fieldmapper alias typos are one of those "probably really difficult to fix" things. |
| 14:09 |
Dyrcona |
Could be.... |
| 14:09 |
jeff |
mostly i'm thinking of things that will end up referencing it, like report templates. |
| 14:09 |
jeff |
i suppose upgrade scripts could revise those... maybe. |
| 14:09 |
* jeff |
shrugs |
| 14:10 |
Dyrcona |
I used to have a tendency to confuse actor.card (ac) with asset.copy (acp). |
| 14:11 |
jeff |
in reality, they are somewhat arbitrary and it is only convention that makes me say "the alias of 'actscecm' on actor::stat_cat_entry_user_map looks wrong") |
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| 14:38 |
rfrasur |
Does anybody know a way to do a weighted random draw in Excel? |
| 14:39 |
* rfrasur |
looks it up |
| 14:40 |
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| 14:54 |
yboston |
hello, I found a "circulation policy" that was added in error. Can I just delete the row in (based on id) from config.circ_matrix_matchpoint? I know I can just make it not active, but I rather delete it. TIA |
| 14:54 |
Dyrcona |
yboston: You can delete it, but I would just make it active = false; |
| 14:56 |
yboston |
Dyrcona: Thanks. I guess setting active=false could be helpful if I change my mind so it is easy to reinstate? any other reasons off the top of your head? |
| 14:56 |
Dyrcona |
yboston: It's just what I typically do rather than delete. |
| 14:57 |
yboston |
Dyrcona: thanks for the info and sharing your preferred workflow |
| 14:57 |
kmlussier |
Dyrcona++ |
| 14:57 |
kmlussier |
I forgot include you in all the thanks I sent yesterday when signing off on the bib browse code, so I'm sending along karma now instead. |
| 14:58 |
kmlussier |
Dyrcona can not get enough good karma for all the assistance he gives me when I'm testing code. :) |
| 15:18 |
csharp |
@karma Dyrcona |
| 15:18 |
pinesol_green |
csharp: Karma for "Dyrcona" has been increased 382 times and decreased 3 times for a total karma of 379. |
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| 15:52 |
mmorgan |
I'm trying to test an action trigger. Is there a recommended way to remove rows from the database so I can tweak and retest? |
| 16:06 |
jboyer-isl |
mmorgan: A guess I'm thinking of testing soon: delete from action_trigger.event where event_def=(The event id you're testing). You could add additional clauses for add_time, state, etc. if needed. |
| 16:07 |
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| 16:08 |
jboyer-isl |
but note that I've not tried it yet. |
| 16:10 |
mmorgan |
Thanks, anything I try will be on a test server :). Will deleting the row from action_trigger.event also remove rows from action_trigger.event_output? |
| 16:10 |
mmorgan |
or can those just stay there and not bother anybody? |
| 16:10 |
jboyer-isl |
Ah, I doubt it. |
| 16:10 |
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| 16:10 |
jboyer-isl |
Cleaning them up might make testing easier, if that's where you're looking for success/failure. |
| 16:14 |
mmorgan |
Good point. I will give this a try on a test server, but maybe not til Monday. Thanks! |
| 16:16 |
bshum |
In the old days, we used to just put complete times on unfinished A/T events |
| 16:16 |
bshum |
And change the status |
| 16:17 |
bshum |
But deleting is also simple too. |
| 16:20 |
mmorgan |
I'm fine with updating rather than deleting. I'm testing notices and want to be able to run the same trigger again for the same user. |
| 16:23 |
mmorgan |
events for the event_def I'm working with have status complete but complete_ time of null. Can I update these fields to get it to run again after I make changes to the template? |
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| 16:49 |
bshum |
mmorgan: Hmm, I'd say, probably |
| 16:50 |
bshum |
I think we used to do that when we were testing acq EDI |
| 16:50 |
bshum |
And it would error out |
| 16:50 |
bshum |
So we'd tweak things, then null out the output and complete stuff and try again |
| 16:54 |
mmorgan |
Thanks! I'll look at that on Monday, too. Don't want to try anything new on a database on a Friday afternoon. |
| 16:55 |
kmlussier |
mmorgan: Go home and enjoy the beautiful weather! ;) |
| 16:55 |
mmorgan |
What beautiful weather?? Where?? It's quite gray out my window! |
| 16:56 |
kmlussier |
I think I glimpsed a ray of sunshine a couple of hours ago. |
| 16:57 |
Dyrcona |
@wunder 01845 |
| 16:57 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: The current temperature in North Andover, Massachusetts is 70.5°F (4:52 PM EDT on July 26, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 62.6°F. Pressure: 29.96 in 1014 hPa (Steady). |
| 16:58 |
mmorgan |
Maybe all the clouds will lift in the next two minutes and we can all enjoy the beautiful weather! :) |
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| 18:00 |
kmlussier |
Who would know who this e-mail address goes to? webteam evergreen-ils.org |
| 18:00 |
kmlussier |
I suspect it could be going to someone that is no longer invovled in the web team. |
| 18:09 |
gmcharlt |
kmlussier: it is indeed |
| 18:09 |
gmcharlt |
to whom would it like it directed? |
| 18:09 |
kmlussier |
gmcharlt: Can you make it go to me instead? |
| 18:09 |
kmlussier |
Why do I think I just opened myself up to tons of SPAM? |
| 18:11 |
kmlussier |
gmcharlt: While you're paying attention, Amy is listed as the contact for the EOB on http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=faqs:evergreen_committees. Should I change it to you? |
| 18:11 |
gmcharlt |
kmlussier: yeah |
| 18:12 |
gmcharlt |
kmlussier: also, communications@ at now goes to you |
| 18:12 |
kmlussier |
Yay! |
| 18:12 |
* gmcharlt |
can smell the sarcasm all the way across the continent ;) |
| 18:12 |
kmlussier |
:D |
| 18:12 |
kmlussier |
Why do we have a communications@? |
| 18:13 |
gmcharlt |
kmlussier: for the communications committee, at guess at a point where it was separate from the web teawm? |
| 18:14 |
* kmlussier |
nods. |
| 18:14 |
gmcharlt |
actually, I'm not seeing any current references to that address, so I'm inclined to just kill it |
| 18:15 |
kmlussier |
+1 |
| 18:15 |
gmcharlt |
done did dead |
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