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IRC log for #evergreen, 2013-06-25

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
00:58 paxed morning
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08:11 csharp does anyone have a success story using Circulation Limit Sets to limit the number of items checked out per circulation modifier?
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08:54 csharp circ_policies--
08:59 Dyrcona csharp: We think we're successfully limiting with limit sets.
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09:02 csharp Dyrcona: thanks - looks like my first problem is that the circ policy I'm expecting to be chosen isn't being chose
09:02 csharp n
09:03 csharp so now I'm playing with weights, which is pretty complex
09:04 * csharp is *so* glad we have find_circ_matrix_matchpoint() to test with
09:04 tsbere csharp: Between poking at our mail server I can probably answer questions about some of that for ya
09:05 tsbere csharp: For note, easy way to limit by circ mod: Create a circ matrix line that matches the circ modifier and as little else as possible with no circulate flag or rules. Attach limits to *that* rule with fallthrough flag checked.
09:08 csharp tsbere: thanks for that tip
09:08 csharp right now I'm having to back up and fix the weights issue
09:09 tsbere csharp: Also, weights just change the order of the rows that match, not the rows themselves. So if the row you think should be matching isn't then you need to check the row, not the weights.
09:10 csharp okay - good to know
09:21 paxed hmph. we've got about 1000 biblios with repeated [sub]fields that are not repeatable.
09:21 * paxed emails the list to the librarians
09:21 Dyrcona paxed: Only 1000? That's not so bad.
09:22 paxed i was surprised how few we had, actually.
09:22 paxed i wrote a quick perl script to go through the biblios and report those
09:24 paxed s/quick/quick'n'dirty/ - some acccuracy there.
09:30 Dyrcona paxed: Perl is always dirty whether it is quick or not. :)
09:30 paxed or at least it makes me feel like it :)
09:32 Dyrcona Perl is Mort Sahl, Python is well....Python. ;)
09:32 paxed never heard of him
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09:38 csharp btw - "persistent login" just adds a cookie to a specific browser, right?
09:39 csharp from the OPAC, I mean
09:39 tsbere I think that it creates a session cookie so that you don't time out, but doesn't keep you logged in if you close the browser
09:39 tsbere I could be wrong
09:40 csharp okay - closing and reopening the browser kept me logged in
09:41 tsbere Then I would assume I was wrong. ;)
09:41 csharp heh
09:44 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Only attempt to map copies once per hold - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=fceea3d>
09:44 paxed haha. testing some improvements for bug 1156545 - i guess a bill for $1234567.80 is a bit too much: ERROR:  numeric field overflow
09:44 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1156545 in Evergreen "Currency symbol and format should not be in po-file translatable texts" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156545
09:46 senator we have lots of fields defined as numeric(6,2), although depending on the currency that could be too limiting i suppose
09:46 paxed it's unlikely the patron bill would hit that much.
09:48 bshum Eh, someone could zap a barcode as a grocery bill?  That'd be entertaining actually :D
09:48 csharp do "system"-level org units need addresses and hours of operation?
09:48 csharp bshum: that used to happen all the time in the early days of EG in PINES
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09:49 paxed bshum: "Eek, i got a skull-and-crossbones error message and helphelphelp *smashing panic button*"
09:50 bshum csharp: I would think you'd only need addresses and hours of operation for library units that actually held materials.  For transit, etc. reasons.
09:50 bshum So... it depends.
09:50 krvmga bshum: i've often thought we should replace the skull & crossbones with something less panic-inducing
09:50 bshum Our system units do not have any of those, fwiw.
09:51 Dyrcona senator: Guess what. There's a standards document for representing world currencies.
09:51 bshum krvmga: So find the skull/crossbow image and replace with a fluffy bunny.  And add "oh, something unexpected just happened!"
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09:51 bshum :D
09:52 Dyrcona bshum: I'd recommend a still of Leonard Nimoy as Spock, and the phrase "Something fascinating just happened."
09:52 jeff_ persistent login adds a cookie to the browser which will persist, and sets the server-side session such that it will last for possibly as long as the interval specified in config. a memcached restart or memcached evictions will both result in the persistent session lasting for a shorter than configured interval.
09:52 bshum Dyrcona++
09:52 krvmga bshum: i think i'd replace it with a small denslow picture of toto saying "i think we're not in kansas any more."
09:52 rfrasur Dyrcona++
09:52 rfrasur krvmga++
09:53 bshum I foresee a random error message that rotates as a future enhancement.
09:53 jeff_ i'd like to see sessions stored in-db, even if it isn't the primary postgresql db (though i'm not certain there's strong reason NOT to have them there), so that memcached would be for speed/caching, not the only place sessions were maintained.
09:54 senator Dyrcona: i could not possibly say anything new or clever about standards
09:54 * Dyrcona adopts a new stock phrase: "There's a standard for that."
09:56 Dyrcona senator: ISO 4217
09:58 Dyrcona Some currencies require 3 positions after the decimal, and 6 digits is likely not enough for something like the Zimbabwean dollar.
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10:00 Dyrcona Though, I guess they say to use USD for Zimbabwe.
10:01 Dyrcona Think I'll start billing clients in XAG and XAU. :)
10:01 senator heh
10:01 csharp bshum: thanks - that was my working assumption
10:02 senator the wikipedia page for that standard is probably worth linking to on any relevant bug report we produce
10:06 Dyrcona Yep. Think I'll bookmark it.
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10:18 * paxed grumbles something incomprehensible about using formatted monetary value as a goddamned float
10:19 paxed bill2.js, i'm looking at you.
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10:35 krvmga i was just looking through the documentation to see if there was anything documenting Local Administration > Copy Location Groups and I didn't see anything.
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10:35 krvmga so i'm thinking to take it on, if it doesn't exist
10:35 krvmga i just wanted to say it here before i sent a note to DIG
10:36 krvmga just in case
10:37 krvmga speak now or forever hold your peace
10:37 krvmga (as if that would ever happen)
10:38 krvmga going once
10:38 krvmga going twice
10:38 krvmga sold! to the guy who is interested
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10:41 csharp krvmga++
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10:45 kmlussier krvmga: ESI has docs on copy location groups - http://www.esilibrary.com/esi/docs/?p=930
10:45 kmlussier Since they provide their docs in asciidoc, it may just be a matter of taking their docs and adding them to the eg repository.
10:49 krvmga well, that explains why i didnt find in in open-ils.org
10:49 krvmga :)
10:50 krvmga i wonder how this missed getting in the main documentation?
10:50 krvmga any thoughts on where's the best place to put it?
10:50 kmlussier The ESI docs usually end up in the community docs, but every once in a while I find some that didn't make it in. I can add them, but probably won't get to it for a few weeks, so if anyone else wants port them over, feel free.
10:51 krvmga since i was working on it, i was going to do it.
10:51 kmlussier krvmga++
10:51 krvmga i'm just not sure where would be the best place to put it.
10:52 kmlussier krvmga: I would put it somewhere withing section VI - Local Administration
10:52 kmlussier Sigh...my typing in IRC is terrible.
10:53 krvmga it's okay i kenw what you meant
10:53 kmlussier krvmga: The asciidoc format is at http://www.esilibrary.com/esi/docs​/asciidoc/Copy_Location_Groups_2.2​_doc/Copy_Location_Groups_2.2.txt
10:53 krvmga kmlussier++
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11:23 JennB Hello evergreeners! I have a question about holds and when one has several copies of an item why holds don't stick to that one or more of the copies. I have tried to retarget holds but that doesn't seem to help. Thoughts?
11:25 bshum JennB: Could be status of the item (has to be something that is holdable).  Could be copy location (holdable), could be rules?
11:26 JennB I've checked the location and yep holdable. Hm, rules.
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11:34 bshum That's just my initial gut reaction to when holds don't seem to target the copies you're looking for.
11:34 bshum Oh, it could also be that the copies are too new?
11:34 bshum Like newly cataloged
11:34 kmlussier But retargeting holds should take care of the new copies, shouldn't it?
11:34 bshum And it won't show up on the retargeting for the existing holds until enough time has passed.
11:34 bshum Oh, you're right.
11:34 JennB I have heard about--very new copies need to retarget. We have tried that.
11:34 bshum Hmm
11:35 tsbere and if not "Available" or "Reshelving" the copy won't ever show up on the hold as the "current copy"
11:35 kmlussier JennB: Are they title-level holds?
11:35 bshum Right, manual retargeting would take care of that issue, since it resets it.
11:36 JennB I believe so Kathy. We are simply adding a copy to a bib record. Some are fine and 1 will decide to misbehave
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12:00 jeff_ Is there a common approach/response for feedback along the lines of "given a record containing 'Some String', a keyword search for The Some String does not include the record with only 'Some String'"?
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12:07 jeff_ always entertaining to find your own words in a google search -- doubly so when they're helpful.
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12:16 jrshaw It would seem that a vanilla out of the box installation of evergreen 2.4 would be a walk in the park. As a Linux newbie I’m finding that not to be the case. I’ve read the pertinent part of the installation docs but found the information to be incomplete. Sysadmins and programmers may know and assume much. As one coming with no past history, I’m finding all the holes and stepping into most all of them it seems. I’m tryin
12:17 phasefx jrshaw: if you share what you learn, we can beef it up
12:18 paxed you got cut off at "I'm trying"
12:18 jeff_ There is some level of linux experience required. If there are specific missing steps, please let us know via whatever means works best for you -- here's fine, on the dev or docs mailing lists, or as a bug in launchpad.
12:19 jrshaw All those communications channels I'm slowly learning and coming up to speed. Please be patient
12:19 jeff_ jrshaw: certainly. you're here, so feel free to provide specific feedback here -- could be easiest. :-)
12:20 jrshaw I joined the sysadmin and another list. I'll add docs to the list next.
12:21 jrshaw So let's start with the 2.4 cleint install on Windows...
12:21 dbs jeff_: you mean "why isn't 'the' a stopword?"
12:22 dbs Yeah, basically, if you have no linux experience, you're toast.
12:22 dbs Linux and a basic understanding of networks, I guess
12:23 jeff_ dbs: possibly, or "is there a middle ground which would factor 'the' into relevancy/etc, but not make it required?"
12:23 jeff_ dbs: i think i've chased this before, but have no recollection of any conclusions, if i reached any.
12:24 dbs jeff_: okay, you mean making the leap from hard "AND" to "let's OR the terms by default, and bump relevance for all words matching, and bump again for all words matching in order"?
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12:26 dbs So search could be for "frolicking whales and dolphins" and return a hit for "frolicking belugas and dolphins" that would probably make the searcher happy
12:26 dbs whereas today the result would be zero hits
12:26 jeff_ advanced Search What I Mean technology.
12:27 dbs I'm pretty sure that's what my Research Methods proposal was for my master's, actually. Heh.
12:27 dbs Never followed through on said research, though. oh the joy of course-based masters.
12:28 jcamins dbs: there's still time!
12:28 dbs jcamins: indeed there is...
12:28 jrshaw Installed 2.4 and ran it with the Run Evergreen Staff Client 2.4.2.4.0 box checked. The Startup and shutdown screen appeared. I put in the name of what jeff_ later described as a dead server. Now I’m stuck with that bad server and can’t get back to putting in a new or correted one.
12:29 dbs Click "Log off" ?
12:30 jeff_ this started with someone searching for The Some String and realizing that they didn't receive the expected results because the record they sought didn't contain "The". a deceptively simple thing which gets complex fast.
12:30 jrshaw Can't get to the screen. Click the application it runs then dead - quits not screen no nothing.
12:33 jrshaw The only real evidence I have that it ran is in my windows resource monitor where it shows the process has terminated.
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12:35 jrshaw I'm suspecting a hidden registry entry bit has been set that forces a bypass of the startup and shutdown screen or it looks in a config table sees the hostname and assumes that is ok. Who would normally want to change that but a tester right?
12:39 jrshaw All I want is to get the "Startup and Shutdown" so I can enter correct data. The program won't even let me get that far.
12:43 Dyrcona jrshaw: I suspect it is the shortcut that you are using to start the client.
12:43 jrshaw Yes. Does the system hate shortcuts?
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12:44 dbs "hate" isn't a rational word
12:45 jrshaw Ok, so perhaps "barf on" might be a better anthropomorphism... :-)
12:46 Rogan Once again I join IRC at an obviously inopprotune moment.
12:46 kmlussier Rogan: Your timing is impeccable. :)
12:47 jrshaw So I assume I would run the exe directly or perhaps with some special switches?
12:47 Dyrcona jrshaw: Your shortcut might contain the option to connect to a single server. You should try a different method of starting the client.
12:48 jrshaw I'll try that and experiment for a bit and come back with some results after a bit...
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13:05 jeff_ It might be useful to have a "how to clear all local state/preferences". It comes up from time to time, though I've not heard of this particular issue before.
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13:08 Dyrcona jeff_: del C:\* ?
13:09 dbs Would be good to be able to reproduce the problem as a first step
13:09 jeff_ Dyrcona: i should have qualified with "local state / preferences for the evergreen staff client" :-)
13:10 Dyrcona jeff_: My command still works for that. :p
13:10 Dyrcona The trouble with being more precise is the answer depends.
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14:16 jeffdavis so, regarding bug 1187433 ...
14:16 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1187433 in Evergreen "apostrophe search issues in 2.4" (affected: 3, heat: 20) [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187433
14:16 jeffdavis We're doing a 2.2->2.4 upgrade, so my understanding is I just need to integrate this commit into our db upgrade stuff: http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=workin​g/Evergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=1b64d6e
14:17 jeffdavis Assuming that's correct, I can try it out in a test environment tomorrow.
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14:58 bshum jeffdavis: I think that's right.  Assuming the upgrade script covers all the stuff in the other commits in the branch.
14:59 bshum I was a little surprised to see a public.* schema entry in the upgrade though.  Hadn't had a chance to look deeper into it.
15:00 bshum Yeah that's nothing.  Just unexpected for me.  Don't pay attention to my ramblings.
15:06 jeffdavis It looked to me like the necessary changes from the other commits are in the upgrade script, but it's a long ticket and I get a little paranoid before major version upgrades. ;)
15:08 jeffdavis s/ticket/bug/
15:09 bshum It's healthy to be mindful of potential pitfalls.
15:24 jrshaw Oh the fun. Back to the 2.4 client Install... Went to lunch. The system hibernated. Powered up. corrupted system image. discarded the hiber-image and did a clean reboot. Full functionality has been restored. I can repeatedly start the Client and it works. Now to find a working 2.4 test server that works...
15:25 jrshaw demo.ils.edoceo.com produces a "There was an error testing the hostname." error
15:26 csharp jrshaw: so are your complaints purely about getting the client up and running, or are you installing a server too?
15:28 jrshaw I'm taking this one step at a time. I've decided to work on Clint configuration since that would be a simpler and shorter process. just need to know how to interface the client to the test server.
15:28 kmlussier jrshaw: demo.ils.edoceo.com is working for me. You may need to add a SSL Exception for the server.
15:29 kmlussier Or, I should say, it would work if I had the right staff client version.
15:30 jrshaw So you bumped into that problem (wrong client version) too...
15:31 jrshaw Ok. Added the SSL exception. Got the OK. Yep, wong version...:-(
15:34 kmlussier Hmm...yeah. I thought it was because I don't have a 2.4.0 client installed, but that doesn't seem to be working either. I'm not sure what flavor of 2.4 edoceo_ is running now.
15:34 csharp {"payload":["HEAD"],"status":200}
15:34 csharp presumably that's "master" from some time
15:35 bshum He's got a link I think to the custom client build.
15:35 kmlussier Oh, that's right! I had forgotten. http://demo.ils.edoceo.com/staff-client/
15:36 csharp okay, so jrshaw ^^
15:37 Rogan yep, that's what I got from trying to grab the version via url
15:40 bshum Sometimes I wish we had that on the catalog somewhere more visibly.
15:40 bshum "Powered by Evergreen, version 2.4.1" or whatever.
15:40 bshum Just so that I don't have to memorize the url ;)
15:41 * csharp agrees
15:42 rangi bshum: in koha we put it in a comment in the html
15:43 rangi <meta name="generator" content="Koha 3.1005003" /> <!-- leave this for stats -->
15:43 rangi we also have the powered by thing, but people can switch that on or off with the sysprefs if they want
15:44 bshum rangi: Yep, that does sound like a good approach.
15:45 jcamins And the powered by thing doesn't list the version.
15:46 bshum Well, I meant the meta tag sounded like a good idea.
15:46 bshum Our powered by thing just has Evergreen too.
15:47 jrshaw Had a phone call... back... Trying the above url...
15:47 * paxed zaps himself with a wand of sleep.
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15:50 Phenol Where can I find the workflow of the circulation.. ex: Checkin sets status to X and checkout sets status to Y so on.
15:51 jrshaw That give me a couple of demo clients: 2.5 & 2.6. The question is what version is running at demo.ils.edoceo.com? Am I correct in assuming that the server there will support both of those clients?
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15:51 tsbere Phenol: I don't know if we documented any of that. Checkout sets status to checked out and checkin sets to reshelving, in transit, or on holds shelf depending on where the copy is going...
15:54 kmlussier jrshaw: Those aren't for 2.5 or 2.6 - I'm guessing he just numbers them consecutively. I would try 26 since it's the most recent.
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15:57 jrshaw Oh great, a sequential coincidence. I get it now. Hooray! two green 200 : OKs... Thanks for the help.
15:58 kmlussier Phenol: Did you look at http://docs.evergreen-ils.o​rg/2.4/_circulation_2.html? As tsbere, I don't think it documents that specific workflow, but it might be useful.
16:01 Phenol I've read over that. I'm curious on how to set status of custom type?
16:02 Phenol ex: we move a book to storage and have a copy status of storage. how to move that book to that status?
16:05 kmlussier You could scan the item(s) into the item status screen and then right-click to edit the items. You can then change the status in the copy editor. However, I would be inclined to use storage copy locations instead of a status.
16:05 Phenol rgr ty
16:16 Phenol what changes the status from Reshelving back to available?
16:19 bshum Phenol: There's a script that changes reshelving back to available.
16:19 bshum You can set it up to be called via cron.
16:19 bshum It's called "reshelving_complete.srfsh"
16:20 bshum Alongside that, there are library settings that can control how long it takes for something to wait before being set back to available.
16:20 bshum By default, I think the script uses 24 hours
16:20 bshum So it'll wait 24 hours from the time it was set to reshelving before it marks it available, no matter how often you run the script via cron.
16:21 Phenol Ahh..
16:21 Phenol okay
16:21 bshum In our consortium, we used to set the option to 1 hour and have cron call the reshelving script every 30 minutes or an hour.
16:21 bshum But nowadays we just run it once each night.
16:21 bshum Like at 2 am or so for us.
16:22 bshum This was to avoid weird problems with having the reshelving action fighting against other status changes.
16:22 * bshum thinks that's still an unfixed bug
16:22 bshum Ah yes... this one:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1018011
16:22 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1018011 in Evergreen 2.4 "Incorrect copy status caused by reshelving process colliding with item checkout" (affected: 2, heat: 12) [Medium,Confirmed]
16:22 Phenol I was asked by the library directory if we could skip the reshelving status and go straight to available
16:22 bshum So if you rehselv too fast, it can break stuff.
16:23 bshum As for skipping straight to available, I don't think that's an option yet.
16:23 Phenol :(
16:23 Phenol k
16:23 bshum What we did because folks found "reshelving" unsettling is renamed it to "recently returned"
16:23 bshum And I think folks have gotten used to it.
16:23 bshum But that's just our consortium's situation.
16:24 Phenol makes sense
16:24 bshum I'm sure if it really bothers you folks down the road, it'd be possible to pay for new development to change how circulation checkin works and have it skip straight back to available.
16:34 * dbs could write a database trigger that would immediately set "reshelving" items to "available"
16:34 dbs Who's got $25 to spare?
16:35 bshum Heh
16:35 bshum dbs++
16:35 kmlussier dbs: $25? Your prices have gone up since the free bug fixes you were offering rfrasur yesterday. :)
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16:36 bshum bug fix != new feature
16:36 kmlussier Oh, that's true. Well, then, $25 for a new feature is a bargain. Not that I have $25 to spare.
16:37 tsbere dbs: I'll do it for $24.99! ;)
16:37 dbs kmlussier: bug fixes or features are free if I'm already doing them for our library :)
16:37 kmlussier dbs++
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16:39 * dbs belatedly realizes his response to yboston was thinking of the "right-click on controlled field in marc editor" view, not "manage authorities" interface
16:40 yboston dbs: I was going to reach out to you to confirm if that is what you meant
16:41 yboston dbs: your response was extremely helpful though, because I wanted to look at the code for the sorting of that context menu too
16:44 Dyrcona kmlussier: The first one is always free. :)
16:44 kmlussier Dyrcona: Yeah, that's how they get you.
16:46 eeevil dbs: fwiw, the sorting is broken there, too, I think... I think (hope) that my branch will address that UI as well
16:50 dbs eeevil: on a related subject, I think 2a7b63e42d4f makes things worse for bibs that have had controlled fields updated by an edited linked auth record, because $0 is always the first subfield :/
16:50 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Search clicked /and/ preceding sf values - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=2a7b63e>
16:50 dbs So if we fix the bug that makes $0 be the first subfield, then that will be mo better
16:51 dbs good old bug 712490
16:51 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 712490 in Evergreen "Subfield order in bib. record changes when editing authority" (affected: 2, heat: 10) [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/712490
16:51 eeevil dbs: agreed ... making it last would be good, but I think we should (additionally) ignore subfields that aren't controlled by the authority tag
16:52 dbs eeevil++ # for auth fixes in general
17:04 eeevil I don't have it in me to do a full-on vandelay.replace_field() that's not a wrapper for strip+add today ... but that's what's needed
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17:18 phasefx tsbere: are command-line configured tabs still working for you in master?
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17:21 phasefx hrmm, error in menu.js, 'new_tab', var tabscroller = this.controller.view.tabscroller;   this.controller is undefined
17:21 tsbere phasefx: No clue. Too many dead servers this week. >_>
17:21 phasefx tsbere: I'll write it up, probably a race condition
17:22 phasefx thanks man
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21:03 bshum Wow, and three days later, an email shows up.
21:03 * bshum hates having email wackiness :(
21:52 bshum @coin
21:52 pinesol_green bshum: heads
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23:21 paxed morning
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