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Results for 2026-04-28

17:16 eby stop using opac.hold_notify
17:16 eby and was general consensus in the room that per hold notify makes no sense and causes more issues
17:17 eby with updating the hold settings on patron change, etc
17:17 jeff also, I've had conversations here and elsewhere regarding removing some/all per-hold notification options. found some with this search: http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/evergr​een/search/?nick=jeff&q=carrier
17:17 Dyrcona Well. per hold notify makes a certain sense, but I'll agree it causes enough confusion to outweigh its usefulness.
17:17 jeff stop using opac.hold_notify? hrm.
17:19 eby well i think they were going for more clear not just hold related but when there was discussion there were multiple that wanted hold / overdue / courtesy broken out

Results for 2024-07-11

15:12 pinesol News from commits: Docs: adding 3.13 to site.yml <https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=E​vergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=3a58d1​c6ea1e89bb5914d768f36200a6195d7c2a>
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16:22 mmorgan For those that are using a true sms solution for text message, how have you dealt with hiding/removing the sms carrier option from the client and opac?
16:26 jeff less of an issue for us since we also hide per-hold notification methods, and we use our own patron-facing discovery layer and app.
16:26 jeff (and we don't rely on A/T for the automated text or phone call hold notifications -- just email)
16:28 jeff since this means our org unit setting for sms.enable isn't set to TRUE, we don't have to go out of our way to hide anything, just go out of our way to show a few things.
16:28 jeff like the "sms" notification pref in the user editor.
16:29 jeff we'd do it slightly differently now, I suspect.
16:30 jeff I think Stompro's branch hides the carrier while still using A/T and the sms.enable org unit setting.
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16:33 mmorgan I've just started looking at Josh's branch, we are still using action triggers.
16:49 jeff mmorgan: what provider are you experimenting with? Twilio, Flowroute, or something else?

Results for 2023-12-15

12:31 jeff we spend on average a little over $0.01/message to not have to worry about it.
12:38 Bmagic ok, it was a differenting sending address. haha. The two accounts were attached to two different org units, and the test template walks up the org tree to find an accosiated email address, and found one that isn't allowed to sen through our relay. Mystery solved
12:38 Bmagic phew, I was losing my mind
12:39 jeff phew. next time, keep the above in mind also. :-)
12:40 jeff my understanding is that time of day can also influence carrier SMTP to SMS gateways.
12:45 jeff (though that might be a proxy for total inbound volume (which we can't observe) following a day/night cycle)
12:48 jeff 10,000 messages a month can be a lot easier to pay for than 1,000,000 messages a month, but I suspect most libraries can reduce the number of messages as well.
12:49 Bmagic right, I was thinking along those lines. Like "ok the first one sent to the same address, maybe the second one was denied because the relay was getting too many for the same destination in a short period"
12:49 jeff This might be a good conference presentation, rather than an IRC monologue. Looks like I might still have time to write one up. :-)
12:50 jeff Bmagic: yeah, and it was resetting by the time you tried again from the first address, etc...

Results for 2023-09-05

15:47 Dyrcona So far, I've got two that failed the hooks lookup to create the AutorenewNotify events. I'm running the daily events along with the 2-day courtesy notices because they often overlap.
15:49 Dyrcona I think I'll set it up tomorrow so that 1 vm is configured with parallel reactors/collectors and the other not. Then, I'll put the production crontab in place to run these events and see what happens for a few days.
16:00 Dyrcona Unrelated: I'm starting to rethink many things that I thought were a good idea at the time, like letting users specify per hold email and SMS notification addresses. We get a few tickets now and then from staff who don't understand how they get bounce emails for addresses not in the patron record.
16:03 jeff per-hold email addresses aren't a thing that I'm aware of.
16:04 jeff email notification on holds is a boolean per-hold, but not a text field.
16:04 jeff you can have a different phone number per hold and a different text number (AND different carrier) per hold, though.
16:05 jeff (we do none of that)
16:09 Dyrcona The ticket is about the bounce from a text. We recently added real addresses as the senders of texts through email to SMS gateway, because it seems to help.
16:10 Dyrcona And, jeff, you're right. I should have looked it up before spouting off in channel, but different numbers seemed like a good idea once. Now, I think the cons outweigh the pros.
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Results for 2023-03-16

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13:09 jeff csharp_: yeah, I figured that PINES wouldn't be too keen on changing SMS methods.
13:10 jeff it will be interesting to see how long it takes carriers to shut down the gateways completely, vs the current ever-degrading status quo of the gateways mostly-existing, but frequently failing to function.
13:11 jeff (that assessment is based on second-hand observation and hearsay, since we thankfully don't have to deal with it)
13:11 * jeff ducks
13:13 Dyrcona Uh-huh.
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Results for 2021-12-03

13:26 jvwoolf mmorgan: Yeah, that seems likely
13:26 jvwoolf mmorgan++
13:27 * mmorgan needs to run away for a bit, but it would be great to add heat to that!
14:10 jeff Hrm. "place hold for this staff account" seems to be working for me in a 3.7.2 test system, but not when I try to place the hold for my 'normal' patron. Place Hold(s) button isn't enabled.
14:10 * jeff looks
14:32 jeff ah, users with sms hold notification enabled but no carrier/etc. drat. we'll have to figure a solution there.
14:33 jeff we might just start using a different opt-in user setting, but that might change too many other things.
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18:01 pinesol News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>

Results for 2020-07-22

13:11 jeff We've not encountered issues with SMS deliverability so far (knock on wood).
13:13 mmorgan Thanks for the input, helps as we look for a solution.
13:13 mmorgan Dyrcona++ jeff++ alynn26_away++
13:28 jeff We've sent about 5,500 messages in the last 30 days. Our last "normal" month was probably February.
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13:29 jeff So looking at Feb, we had about 7300 messages and paid about $63.
13:30 jeff The pricing went up a little bit with Verizon's introduction of additional fees. Carrier fees were about $9 of that $63.
13:30 agoben jeff, what all notices do you send that way?  And what's your total service population?
13:31 jeff service area population is around 90,000
13:31 jeff and we're sending opt-in SMS for hold available and for items due (courtesy and overdue)
13:33 jeff So we don't need to pay for a shortcode.
13:34 agoben Yeah, assuming a similar scale, we'd be looking at well over 100K a month, so guessing we wouldn't be so lucky
13:34 agoben (Messages, that is)
13:35 jeff yeah, you'd be starting at $750/mo before carrier charges (Verizon and US Cellular at the moment)
13:36 agoben mmhmm
13:41 Dyrcona We're at 151K per month.
13:41 Dyrcona Assuming February is "normal" 'cause we're way down since.

Results for 2019-02-26

15:28 jeff Ah. *nod*
15:28 jeff Less flat.
15:28 csharp we've chased our tail more than once trying to add carriers for some of these off-brand cellular companies (and some more well-known ones)
15:29 jeff More "not without official documentation from the carrier in question" and perhaps even "a patron willin to test" :-)
15:29 jeff Which in some cases reduces/simplifies to "No."
15:30 csharp I guess that's the other nuance that de-flattens my "no" - the patron is welcome to request that information of the carrier :-)
15:31 jeff I'm pretty sure I've made my strong feelings about this known, but in case anyone's interested in trying the "eliminate the email to text gateways" approach, I'd be interested in helping / collaborating. :-)
15:31 jeff I think that Stompro is on that short list.
15:43 jeff issue gets tricky when you get up to volume, though.
15:43 Bmagic issues with their throttle?
15:44 Bmagic API requests / minute or something like that?
15:44 jeff csharp: good to know an approximation. let me think about that a bit...
15:46 jeff csharp: can you tell how many unique patrons or how many unique numbers?
15:49 jeff Bmagic: that and other things. you can send about a message per second as long as you're paying for it. higher volume starts to get into issues not only of cost, but also carriers blocking / requiring you to use a shortcode, pay carrier-specific additional rates, etc.
15:50 Bmagic I see
15:50 jeff several paragraphs that i'm not going to type with thumbs right now... :-)
15:51 Bmagic No worries! Just curious. I don't think our consortium will want to pony up the money, but in case they do....

Results for 2017-09-27

17:15 miker I'm not saying I'd argue for the same designs today ... but it's not as slap-dash as it might seem in the modern world ;)
17:16 kmlussier Yes, and I'm not necessarily arguing that we keep it either. I honestly want to hear from people at the circ desk how they see people using it.
17:16 miker kmlussier: right, that's a more realistic version of my vacation scenario ... especially the fiction of me taking a 2-week vacation ;)
17:16 jeff miker: arguably per-hold text carrier was something done out of convenience and didn't have a supporting background use case, but i could be wrong on that one. :-)
17:16 kmlussier miker: I took a 2-week vacation back in 2002. It was splendid!
17:17 miker jeff: no, you're right about sms, I think
17:17 kmlussier jeff: We specifically asked that it be per-hold just as phone notifications were.

Results for 2016-12-14

13:17 * Dyrcona makes a Lp bug for hold notifications via lollipop and starts coding the branch....
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13:17 Dyrcona I get what jeff is saying and at the outset I said I mostly agreed.
13:17 * jeff writes a nasty letter to Amazon support about there being no way to specify a different text number per order, and demands to know why Amazon doesn't ask him to pick his "Carrier" from a list of company names that does not actually include the company he pays for phone service.
13:17 Dyrcona I can see a use for saying, I want a TXT for this because "muh disseration!"
13:17 * jeff stops being silly
13:18 * Dyrcona still can't type today....

Results for 2015-12-10

11:16 Dyrcona Well, no O/S for servers. We get the O/S pre-installed for workstations.
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11:36 jeff ah. different REST endpoint, different status messages. Twilio was doing the right thing and not using a new status value on messages created via the older endpoint.
11:36 jeff Good to know!
11:37 jeff previously all i had was "sent", meaning "The message was sent to the nearest upstream carrier, and that carrier accepted the message."
11:37 jeff now the majority are "delivered", meaning "Twilio has received confirmation of message delivery from the upstream carrier, and, where available, the destination handset."
11:37 jeff the slightly-less-specific "sent" still exists, meaning "The message was successfully accepted by the nearest upstream carrier."
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Results for 2015-08-28

15:39 jeff docs say "status of undelivered will still be charged", but the API call shows a cost of null USD :-)
15:40 tsbere jeff: Undelivered to a PITA carrier = charged. Undelivered to a nice carrier = no charge?
15:40 tsbere Possibly "undelivered to no carrier" not being charged...
15:41 jeff "failed" is "the carrier didn't even accept this"
15:41 jeff "undelivered" is "the carrier accepted this but we didn't get a confirmation that it was delivered"
15:41 * tsbere also has several landlines in his text message history on his phone
15:41 jeff phone phones are messy. some things are less messy with something like twilio.
15:43 jeff i still have a price of null after several minutes of it being in a status of "undelivered" (as opposed to "queued" which I expect to not have a price yet) :-)
15:44 tsbere jeff: What carrier did you attempt to send to?
15:45 jeff a voip provider called Jive, and the local cable company (who also does voip phones), Charter/Spectrum
15:45 jeff I do know that some landline carriers can/will forward SMS to landlines via some kind of voice relay. I don't have personal experience with that.
15:45 tsbere Well, I know that the local cable company here not only does phones, but also text messaging for those phones. Though they usually want you to install an app on your smartphone to use that part...
15:46 tsbere And at least one VOIP company in the area has text messaging as well, for that matter. But other "landline" providers in the area don't.
15:47 Bmagic What would cause a transaction to stay open after it was checked in ($0 fines on the circ however it was overdue long enough to get marked lost) ?

Results for 2015-06-23

15:03 miker or, that ... ;)
15:03 * jeff looks
15:04 berick http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergre​en.git;a=blob;f=Open-ILS/src/sql/Pg/950​.data.seed-values.sql;h=bac8cfc6a07828d​a5d45d68951569886be4a2a8c;hb=HEAD#l7317
15:04 jeff oh, right you are.
15:05 jeff bad memory. i think it was 3 AM when i was looking at that. :-)
15:07 jeff looking at the stock hold available SMS event_def, it has a group_field of sms_notify, which is going to group by destination SMS number (disregarding carrier), because that's going to be ahr.sms_notify just like the email group_field of usr is ahr.usr
15:10 jeff (and now i'm just talking out loud)
15:12 Dyrcona Thinking out loud is fine. I do that in here all the time. :)
15:12 Dyrcona Never know what might help someone else searching the logs later.
15:20 jeff and usr_field and opt_in_setting pair with each other -- usr_field points to the field containing the user id which is then used to look up the opt in user setting.

Results for 2014-09-15

12:40 jeff Through the Looking Glass API
12:40 RoganH Well known for it's time functions being heavily buggy, hence causing the rabbit's issues with getting anywhere on time.
12:47 bshum Bmagic: mllewellyn might know how we defined the Playaway in our system.  I know it's a local definition that she set up during our upgrade to 2.6.
12:53 jeff heh. from the playawaysPDF.pdf file linked above: ``In conclusion, it is hoped that RDA will make the question moot with its clear separation of content and carrier.''
13:01 bshum dbs: FYI, I'm going to follow your lead from the other day in IRC as far as directing potential OPW applicants to the resources you mentioned as a starting point.
13:02 bshum gmcharlt: I'm getting some applicants poking me directly on the selfcheck project too, but have to pull together something for that too.
13:02 berick bshum: mind re-sharing said resources here?

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