18:07 eeevil I'm happy to help as well. just to be clear I'm not talking about wanting to run 3.12 staff client on 3.8 backend or anything like that. I'm talking about adjacent dev branches, of the same vintage and focusing on orthogonal UI work with no dev-branch-code relevant db or perl updates, having their default core behavior and installation assumption /diametrically opposite/ in a way that is both irreversible on the client side and functionally breaking, 18:07 eeevil due to being separated by a single entirely unrelated commit.  I argue we should /never/ change a default behavior or configuration requirement, except for security reasons. 18:31 sandbergja I think we should work toward making authoritative go away.  Nobody was relying on it, as far as I've heard, and it had no documentation that I could find until berick added some in his patch.  Keeping code around that nobody uses and has no documentation just adds to the extensive maintenance burden and added complexity of onboarding new devs. 18:31 sandbergja I'd be fine with changing the default to be "on" now, and say remove it in 4.0. 18:32 sandbergja but I don't agree that we need to keep it around until The End Of Evergreen 18:32 sandbergja or heck, even change the default to be *on* now, *off* in 4.0, and remove in 5.0 18:33 sandbergja If I understood your comment about never changing a default behavior 21:40 eeevil @later tell sandbergja the corollary to that, though, is that everybody /is/ using it, and tossing out code that the system depends on for proper operation in non-trivial configurations will mean non-trivial configurations of Evergreen will not be possible in the future.  my comment about not changing default behavior, especially deep, core behavior that is baked into the very center of the infrastructure layer, is about making sure that we don't 21:40 eeevil break stuff. In this case, the biggest issue I've spotted so far is that you can't change your mind on the config decision if it turns out there's a bug surfaced by the new setting.  that would be a big deal if you're a huge consortium with 2500+ workstations out in the field.  that doesn't mean I don't want change, and I'd fully support a better/smarter/slimmer implementation of any infrastructure features.  Indeed, I'm very much looking forward to 21:40 eeevil opensrf on redis when it's truly ready, and I worked with berick on the side early on to help provide feedback and input on big/complicated instance need, but we just added back an absolutely necessary feature to the redis branch that was dropped because it was assumed nobody needed it, because it's not needed in trivial (though common) configurations. As for the authoritative stuff, there are a few things getting mixed in there together (the apps 21:40 eeevil that talk to the DB, the perl "magic" in a few different places that helps the DB apps, and separately, the client side pcrud service -- they're all doing slightly different things for different audiences).  However, I suspect (and hope!) that as postgres replicas become increasingly easier to build and maintain and Evergreen instances get bigger (broader/wider), we will see a need again for that capability. we don't today because SSDs and networks 21:40 eeevil got fast and widespread enough, and CPU core count went up enough, that horizontal scaling isn't as necessary as in the past, but I'd bet it'll swing back the other way if Evergreen lasts long enough. ... I know my frustration with stumbling on this silent feature-breaking commit (and, yes, it literally breaks a capability by default, even in the case where you install fresh) is bleeding through, and I'm sorry to the channel for that, but my goal is 21:40 pinesol eeevil: The operation succeeded. 21:40 eeevil to improve the whole system, and I have been consistent from the beginning of the project that, while we can change implementation (and we do, pretty often) we should not and cannot change default behavior without a REALLY good (read: security) reason, or a REALLY long runway. **deep breath** thanks, all, and have a good evening!