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IRC log for #evergreen, 2023-02-14

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Time Nick Message
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10:09 pinesol News from commits: LP#1958258: (follow-up) tag new string for i18n <https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=E​vergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=6ffd7b​94fca915738b2d72851a25b7fdf57f30b6>
10:09 pinesol News from commits: LP1958258 Angular login form shows pending offline xacts <https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=E​vergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=67b073​12966fb7a85597eb073ee9adc178670818>
10:09 pinesol News from commits: LP1969641 Show useful lack of staff working location message <https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=E​vergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=8322b8​9a82fc7387cca0532a5bab8603cbc72737>
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10:39 pinesol News from commits: LP1999544 Also fixes fund dropdown in PO charges <https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=E​vergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=2d86ea​932455ba3b98436d878f9995de3b9756eb>
10:39 pinesol News from commits: LP1999544_funddropdown Add owners limiter to fund dropdown <https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=E​vergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=8ef916​1c4a2c626cbafe659fe18f261f1a2c41c4>
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12:31 Dyrcona Ah, yes. "sudo -E" for those times that you need it.
13:05 Dyrcona I think the netplan folks change the configuration options every couple of years just to mess with me.
13:08 rhamby I feel that way about many things.  Then I remind myself to take my medication.  (mostly joking)
13:11 Dyrcona :)
13:11 Dyrcona Yeah. Well, it looks like I have a working bridge, I hope it doesn't collapse on a reboot.
13:23 Dyrcona Only one of the options actually changed. My real problem was that you can't "try" changes to bridge or bond parameters. I had to apply them.
14:47 JBoyer dev meeting coming up in ~15
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15:01 JBoyer Guess what
15:02 JBoyer #startmeeting 2023-02-14 - Developer Meeting
15:02 pinesol Meeting started Tue Feb 14 15:02:07 2023 US/Eastern.  The chair is JBoyer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02 pinesol Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:02 pinesol The meeting name has been set to '2023_02_14___developer_meeting'
15:02 JBoyer #info Agenda at https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/do​ku.php?id=dev:meetings:2023-02-14
15:02 JBoyer #topic Introductions
15:02 JBoyer #info JBoyer = Jason Boyer, EOLI
15:02 terranm #info terranm = Terran McCanna, PINES
15:02 rhamby #info rhamby = Rogan Hamby, EOLI
15:02 mmorgan #info mmorgan = Michele Morgan, NOBLE
15:02 tlittle #info tlittle = Tiffany Little, PINES
15:02 jeff #info jeff = Jeff Godin, Traverse Area District Library (TADL)
15:02 berick #info berick Bill Erickson, KCLS
15:02 Guest19 joined #evergreen
15:03 jeff (dueling calendar entries, will be here then not then here)
15:03 abneiman #info abneiman = Andrea Buntz Neiman, EOLI
15:03 mantis2 #info mantis1 = Gina Monti, Bibliomation
15:04 collum #info collum - Garry Collum, KCPL
15:04 jvwoolf #info jvwoolf = Jessica Woolford, Bibliomation
15:05 JBoyer ok, anyone joining later should feel free to get all #info with it
15:05 JBoyer #topic Action Items from Last Meeting
15:05 JBoyer #info Bmagic to email the development list about a way to share common Evergreen tools with the community.
15:05 JBoyer Bmagic, how did that turn out?
15:05 JBoyer Who I just noticed may not be around... :)
15:06 Bmagic I'm here
15:06 JBoyer Bmagic++
15:06 Bmagic Umm, did I send an email... I think I did
15:07 Bmagic rhamby replied, but I don't think we made a full plan
15:07 JBoyer Yeah, looks like 2022-12-22
15:08 rhamby yeah, it was batted around a bit and I had thought others would chime it but it was also knocking on Christmas so .....
15:08 Bmagic yep, so, that's where we are
15:08 Bmagic I went ahead and published the thing I was working on, on github
15:08 Bmagic Which adds to the scatter
15:09 JBoyer Looks like a wiki page collecting links to repos for interop would help at least direct people.
15:09 rhamby maybe resurrect the thread now that there isn't a major holiday looming?
15:09 rhamby IMO we should do the wiki page no matter what.  some scatter is likely to occur and it is low hanging fruit.
15:10 Bmagic Yes, I think a wiki page without a doubt. Even if it has just one link: to the final place we decide all these things go
15:10 JBoyer rhamby++ Bmagic++
15:10 JBoyer Works for me.
15:10 Bmagic #info Bmagic = Blake GH, MOBIUS
15:10 JBoyer Bmagic, since you have a new link to add would you like to start the new page?
15:11 Bmagic Will do!
15:11 JBoyer Bmagic++
15:11 JBoyer ok, on we go
15:11 JBoyer #info Dyrcona to review Lp 1901932
15:11 pinesol Launchpad bug 1901932 in Evergreen "Wish List - Enhanced Concerto dataset" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1901932
15:11 JBoyer Dyrcona emailed me ahead of time to let me know that he may not be here and that he hasn't had time to review that bug yet; we'll discuss it more later.
15:11 JBoyer Looks like the Launchpad status hasn't been updated yet so we'll skip over that for this meeting
15:11 JBoyer The main event!
15:11 JBoyer #topic New Business
15:11 JBoyer #info scottangel: Request for testers / feedback: LP1977554 - Add Password visibility toggle on login screens
15:12 scottangel Yes! Test away
15:12 JBoyer Always good to call attention to accessibility and internationalization fixes.
15:12 JBoyer scottangel++
15:12 JBoyer #info mantis/gmonti: Procedure for updating terminology in Evergreen
15:13 JBoyer mantis2, it's all yours
15:13 mantis2 thanks!
15:13 mantis2 I'm going through the bitesite LP tickets for example and finding a lot of instances like these: https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1915053
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15:13 pinesol Launchpad bug 1915053 in Evergreen "Item Tags Interface has "Copy Tag Type" as a column" [Undecided,Confirmed]
15:13 mantis2 so basically I'm asking what would be the procedure for these big termniology changes in the system like item and copy for example
15:14 mantis2 I don't know if individually reporting them or having something more central is the best option
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15:15 rhamby in the past we handled them informally but if we're talking about a mass change making say 70 tickets seems clunky
15:15 JBoyer They don't necessarily have to be individual, but reports should probably be small, limited to a single section of the client or opac.
15:16 rhamby I think if we have a consensus to make such a change there should be a good faith effort to list logically grouped ones into just a few tickets
15:16 mantis2 JBoyer++
15:16 JBoyer Smaller patches like that are easier to test and apply, without making them too tiny or so large that we end up with a "# items" printing option sneaking through. :)
15:16 JBoyer (again?)
15:16 JBoyer mantis2++
15:17 JBoyer Any other comments before we move on?
15:17 mantis2 Not from me!
15:17 mantis2 thank you!
15:17 JBoyer #info JBoyer: It may be possible to completely remove Evergreen server PCI exposure by moving to client-side Authorize.net and PayPal (and dropping PayFlowPro).
15:17 JBoyer Can someone take an action item to verify whether it would violate any of their license agreements if the client-side integrations were to be used by the staff client? (i.e. handing a patron card to a staff member and entering it into the client.
15:18 JBoyer I *assume* that's not a big deal, but I'd rather not find out by a library losing their stripe account or something like that.
15:20 Bmagic I'm not clear what this is proposing. Removing all the CC code from Evergreen?
15:20 JBoyer No, removing all of it from the server.
15:21 Bmagic Do the transaction, but don't record stuff into money.credit_card_payment?
15:21 JBoyer The way stripe and modern paypal and others work is that the browser where the payment is being taken communicates with the payment processor and sends the server a transaction key and what not instead of the card info
15:21 JBoyer then the server verifies that it actually took place and applies the payment.
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15:22 terranm PINES only uses Stripe, so that wouldn't change, correct?
15:22 JBoyer It would potentially change in that you could accept Stripe payments in the staff client, which you can't today. That's what I'm curious about.
15:22 terranm *THAT* would be amazing
15:23 JBoyer Would you like to read some EULAs? :D
15:23 terranm Especially if staff could scan the credit cards
15:24 JBoyer So, to reiterate what I'm saying because I left out more detail than I should have:
15:25 JBoyer I'd like someone to investigate whether it is against the Stripe, PayPal, or Authorize.net license agreements for their JS-based in-browser payment products for staff to enter a user's card information into their system or if the intent is only the cardholder has access to their card.
15:26 Bmagic I see
15:26 JBoyer If that's not an issue (I don't expect it to be, really) then we could eventually move all CC processing to these JS-based processes and phase out the CC processing on-server.
15:26 terranm We don't contract with Stripe at the consortial level, but I'll see if one of our libraries that uses it would be willing to share with us.
15:27 JBoyer And for the first time that I can remember remove some dependencies, which I like very much.
15:27 JBoyer terranm, license terms may be available on their signup / dev sites without having to have an account or anything.
15:28 terranm JBoyer++
15:28 JBoyer Does that mean you'd like to check them out? :) (Stripe, PayPal, and Authorize.net specifically are the ones of interest, I looked and don't believe PayFlowPro has such an offering yet.)
15:29 terranm I'm only going to take on Stripe, as that's the only one I'm familiar with at all.
15:29 JBoyer That still helps. terranm++
15:29 Bmagic terranm++
15:29 JBoyer #action terranm will look at the Stripe license agreement for this
15:30 mmorgan terranm++
15:30 JBoyer #action JBoyer will look over Authorize.net and PayPal license agreements.
15:30 jvwoolf I can take Authorize.net. I had a library reach out to me about it a few years ago because they offer a credit card reader through TechSoup
15:30 JBoyer jvwoolf++
15:30 JBoyer you got it.
15:30 terranm Ooh, credit card reader....
15:30 mmorgan jvwoolf++
15:30 JBoyer #action jvwoolf will take authorize.net rather than JBoyer
15:30 mmorgan JBoyer++
15:31 * mmorgan just snuck the lp stats onto the agenda
15:31 JBoyer mmorgan is a ninja!
15:31 rhamby https://stripe.com/legal/ssa might have the relevant docs for stripe
15:31 terranm rhamby++
15:32 JBoyer rhamby++
15:32 JBoyer #topic Launchpad Status
15:32 JBoyer #info Snapshot
15:33 JBoyer #info Open Bugs - 2937
15:33 JBoyer #info Pullrequests - 119
15:33 JBoyer #info Signedoff - 28
15:33 JBoyer #info Updates Since Last Meeting
15:33 JBoyer #info Bugs Added - 69
15:33 JBoyer #info Pullrequest tag Added - 26
15:33 JBoyer #info Signedoff tag Added - 9
15:33 JBoyer #info Fix Committed - 21
15:33 JBoyer mmorgan++
15:33 mmorgan Folks have been busy!!
15:34 JBoyer Now then!
15:34 JBoyer #info JBoyer: Who wants to build Evergreen 3.11 for Workgroups?
15:34 JBoyer Evergreen 3.11 release team, assemble!
15:34 Bmagic I'm interested
15:34 JBoyer That is to say, who here wants to be on it?
15:34 JBoyer Bmagic++
15:35 mmorgan BMagic++
15:35 Bmagic I'm familiar with the buildmaster team. I'm not familiar with Workgroups
15:35 JBoyer https://winworldpc.com/screenshot/e2​80a1c2-a175-4bc5-a0c3-bf11c3a4c2ac/4​2015082-eae8-11e7-a562-fa163e9022f0
15:36 rhamby it adds new networking technologies to any underlying product
15:36 Bmagic lol
15:36 Bmagic JBoyer++
15:37 * mmorgan is willing to help out again.
15:37 Bmagic I never grew beyond sneakernet networking technology
15:37 JBoyer I can try to be more involved again also.
15:38 JBoyer So, for now JBoyer, Bmagic, and mmorgan? Want to just run with that list or should I send a nudge to the dev list to see if a fourth shakes loose?
15:38 Bmagic sounds good. I'm stoked
15:39 JBoyer Works for me.
15:39 jvwoolf What's the timeline for 3.11?
15:39 jvwoolf Or does the release team set that?
15:39 mmorgan Might be nice to nudge the dev list, but this works.
15:39 Bmagic jvwoolf: join the team and make it up as you go!
15:40 Bmagic It's post-conference or pre-conference, I forget
15:40 jvwoolf Bmagic: I'd consider it, but I might disappear for the month of March ahead of our upgrade :)
15:40 jvwoolf Which may be really inconvenient
15:40 JBoyer I'll email the list with the addition that if there's unexpectedly large interest I may step back. But for now, it's provisionially the three of us.
15:41 Bmagic When our powers combine....
15:41 Bmagic EVERGREEN 3.11
15:41 JBoyer And yeah, the release team will likely finalize the timeline but I expect the process to be a lot like this: "Look at 3.10 timeline, adjust for DATE(), nudge here and there, send."
15:42 JBoyer #info As of now the 3.11 release team is JBoyer, Bmagic, and mmorgan
15:42 JBoyer #action JBoyer will send a "Hey, Listen!" email to the dev list about interest in the 3.11 release team.
15:42 berick workgroup++
15:42 JBoyer Bmagic++ mmorgan++
15:43 Bmagic JBoyer++ # backatcha
15:43 terranm Jboyer++ Bmagic++ mmorgan++
15:43 mmorgan JBoyer++ Bmagic++
15:43 Bmagic mmorgan++
15:43 jvwoolf JBoyer++ Bmagic ++ mmorgan++
15:43 Bmagic I hope pinesol can keep up
15:43 JBoyer Which brings us to the last new business item,
15:43 JBoyer #info Bmagic: Enhanced Concerto Dataset: LP1901932
15:43 tlittle @jboyer++ @bmagic++ @mmorgan++
15:43 pinesol tlittle: What we have here is a failure to communicate.
15:43 JBoyer Bmagic, fire away
15:44 Bmagic The main thing I wanted to talk about was to make it clear that my proposal for this will require the buildmaster to have a local server of Postgres for the build process to interact with
15:45 Bmagic some new flags to the build command, passing the PG login creds will allow the Enahanced concerto set to grow with the version of Evergreen thta you build
15:45 JBoyer I have been a bit lax in looking this over, does this essentially make the concerto sample data a pg dump
15:45 JBoyer ?
15:46 Bmagic no, it's a custom dump to a series of SQL files, mimicing, to some extent, what we're doing with the concerto set now
15:47 JBoyer That's not as bad as I was thinking, but I'm not totally sold on the approach. I'll have to check it out more.
15:47 Bmagic It's all fine and dandy until someone adds/removes columns from the database structure, and the enhanced dataset will need to move along with it. I've got it all coded to be automated, it just needs a PG server to run it's process and upgrade scripts then dump back to files
15:48 JBoyer Which is another benefit of bringing it up here; I know Dyrcona is planning to check it out but anyone here that's comfortable with databases please feel free to check it out also.
15:48 Bmagic it's kinda beautiful. As a side-effect, we now have the code to automate any* dataset through the procedure
15:49 JBoyer Bmagic++
15:49 scottangel Bmagic++
15:49 Bmagic If it's merged, the instructions here: https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.ph​p?id=dev:release_process:evergreen:2.8
15:49 Bmagic will need to have the new flags documented
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15:50 JBoyer Speaking of that release page, what should probably happen at some point is that it should be duplicated and updated so we can finally put 2.8 to rest.
15:50 berick Bmagic: curious if there was a reason to avoid going with concerto-style INSERTs, etc.
15:51 JBoyer (I'd specifically like to keep the current one around)
15:51 Bmagic berick: I wanted to code something that could accomodate any* future that Evergreen DB could go. And any* database that we wanted to make the "Enhanced Concerto Dataset"
15:52 Bmagic Not just bibs/items/patrons. But any table and combination of tables, entangled however we wanted
15:53 Bmagic The patch keeps the current concerto set intact, and doesn't change the way that it's installed via the standard docs
15:56 Bmagic (I'm done)
15:56 JBoyer Any other discussion before we all depart?
15:56 berick heh i thought the meeting was already over
15:56 terranm I added another line item
15:56 terranm The New Devs group has begun pulling together all of our individual notes and content from elsewhere on the wiki and from conference presentations. :
15:56 terranm https://wiki.evergreen-ils.o​rg/doku.php?id=newdevs:start
15:56 terranm Side menu on the left with "WIP" on pages that are just placeholders.
15:56 JBoyer #info terranm: New Devs Update - adding code explanations and samples to https://wiki.evergreen-ils.o​rg/doku.php?id=newdevs:start
15:56 terranm oops, I jumped the gun
15:57 JBoyer No, I just wanted to make sure it was in the minutes and hte log. :)
15:57 terranm Anybody that wants to contribute is more than welcome!
15:57 JBoyer (minutes are mostly just the #stuff)
15:57 JBoyer terranm++
15:57 mmorgan terranm++
15:57 scottangel I just want to say you guys are doing an awesome job on the newdevs:start Thank you so much!!!
15:58 JBoyer #topic Announcements
15:58 JBoyer #info Next Meeting is March 14, 2023 at 3pm Eastern
15:58 JBoyer #endmeeting
15:58 pinesol Meeting ended Tue Feb 14 15:58:19 2023 US/Eastern.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
15:58 pinesol Minutes:        http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2023/evergreen.2023-02-14-15.02.html
15:58 pinesol Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2023/evergreen.2023-02-14-15.02.txt
15:58 pinesol Log:            http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergree​n/2023/evergreen.2023-02-14-15.02.log.html
15:58 Bmagic JBoyer++
15:58 berick JBoyer++
15:58 terranm Also, Next Bug Squashing Week is February 27-March 3, 2023
15:58 scottangel JBoyer++
15:58 mmorgan JBoyer++
15:58 terranm JBoyer++
16:04 JBoyer shoot, sorry I missed the second announcement.
16:04 JBoyer terranm++
16:04 terranm :D
16:04 terranm No worries, I'll do plenty of nagging
16:05 * jeff reads scroll
16:07 jeff JBoyer: sorry to dash your hopes, but I'm pretty sure that what you're hoping is possible is exceptionally not, or increases (as opposed to decreases) your PCI DSS burden (standard caveat about "depends on who you ask and how far you push your Compensating Controls" applies)
16:11 jvwoolf Yeah, what I'm getting from browsing around Authorize.net so far is "it's complicated"
16:13 JBoyer I know you can't remove it entirely, someone is still typing card numbers into a computer. I'm just hoping that we can remove servers running Evergreen from the equiation.
16:13 jeff we should still do that, but we need to go a different route.
16:15 jvwoolf I think that's the preferred way to do things. It's why Bibliomation, like PINES, uses only Stripe right now.
16:15 terranm Is there anybody in here at the moment who can add a user to the Evergreen wiki?
16:15 JBoyer jeff, what would that alternate route look like? I haven't spent that much time looking into it but if you know this is a deadend I'm happy to look elsewhere
16:18 * JBoyer heads out for the day but can catch the scrollback later
16:20 terranm FYI, Stripe has a terminal product now: https://stripe.com/terminal
16:20 * jeff nods
16:20 jeff square also
16:21 jeff both are at differing levels of maturity and features
16:21 jeff JBoyer: sorry, didn't mean to sound mysterious, just busy. :-)
16:24 terranm rhamby: do you have access to add users to the Evergreen wiki?
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19:08 rhamby terranm : I do not.  We probably need a couple more folks that can but our dokuwiki version is so old it might be a server side thing to do.
19:08 rhamby updating docuwiki is something we should probably do at some point
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20:40 pinesol News from commits: LP#1988321: Fix comparison problems to avoid incorrect error <https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=E​vergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=f79368​5ffc019b48aa1930d0f73d69dad165d1d8>

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