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IRC log for #evergreen, 2022-05-10

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Time Nick Message
03:07 abneiman joined #evergreen
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13:07 jeffdavis Another dev meeting already, huh? Time flies.
13:31 Bmagic yup
13:38 Dyrcona This year seems to be whizzing by.
13:45 jonadab Honestly, that's a nice change.  The previous couple of years dragged.
14:35 miker aaaaaand ... I have a Dr's appointment that will keep me from attending the dev meeting today :(
14:40 miker I can provide a pre-meeting EG release update, though: we cut 3.9.0 on April 27 and then I was promptly out of the office for travel and not-work until basically today. I did get the tarball and friends up on the downloads site last week, but we had a suspected broken-build issue, which thankfully turned out to be a false alarm, but delayed the release announcement. so, I still owe the world an email to say "come and get it," but you can, indeed, come
14:40 miker and get it. quietest release yet? MAYBE SO
14:42 mmorgan miker++
14:46 shulabear joined #evergreen
14:48 terranm joined #evergreen
14:59 smorrison joined #evergreen
15:00 JBoyer SPEAKING OF.
15:00 JBoyer #startmeeting 2022-05-10 - Developer Meeting
15:00 pinesol Meeting started Tue May 10 15:00:19 2022 US/Eastern.  The chair is JBoyer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00 pinesol Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00 pinesol The meeting name has been set to '2022_05_10___developer_meeting'
15:00 JBoyer #info Agenda at https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/do​ku.php?id=dev:meetings:2022-05-10
15:00 JBoyer #topic Introductions
15:00 JBoyer Give deets.
15:00 terranm #info terranm = Terran McCanna, PINES
15:00 JBoyer #info JBoyer = Jason Boyer, EOLI
15:00 shulabear #info shulabear = Shula Link, GCHRL in PINES
15:00 abneiman #info abneiman = Andrea Buntz Neiman, Equinox
15:01 mmorgan #info mmorgan = Michele Morgan, NOBLE
15:01 collum #info collum = Garry Collum, KCPL
15:01 Bmagic #info Bmagic = Blake GH, MOBIUS
15:01 Dyrcona #info Dyrcona = Jason Stephenson, CWMARS
15:03 JBoyer Ok, anyone joining later feel free to #info-out on your way in
15:03 JBoyer #topic Action Items from Last Meeting
15:03 JBoyer The only previous action item involved miker who isn't available, so we'll carry that over
15:03 JBoyer #action miker will may have looked into bug 1955079
15:03 pinesol Launchpad bug 1955079 in Evergreen "Emailing Bib Records from the catalog (staff and OPAC) reports success, but fails to send email" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1955079
15:03 JBoyer And he left a release update above that should be in the minutes
15:03 sandbergja joined #evergreen
15:03 JBoyer #topic Evergreen Release Updates
15:04 JBoyer #info From miker earlier today: "we cut 3.9.0 on April 27 and then I was promptly out of the office for travel and not-work until basically today. I did get the tarball and friends up on the downloads site last week, but we had a suspected broken-build issue, which thankfully turned out to be a false alarm, but delayed the release announcement. so, I still owe the world an email to say "come and get it," but you can, indeed, come and
15:04 JBoyer get it. quietest release yet? MAYBE SO"
15:04 JBoyer So,
15:04 JBoyer #action miker will ring the dinnerbell re: Evergreen 3.9.0 on the lists
15:04 mmorgan Actually, re bug 1955079, sandbergja has provide a patch
15:04 mmorgan sandbergja++
15:04 shulabear sandbergja++
15:04 JBoyer ooh, sandbergja++
15:05 terranm sandbergja++
15:05 sandbergja heya!  hope it works :-)
15:06 JBoyer He or others can test it now and see how things shake out instead of worrying about how to solve it. :D
15:06 sandbergja and that branch also includes miker's patch for the staff side
15:06 tlittle joined #evergreen
15:07 JBoyer Do we have any volunteers to handle the point releases? I believe there should be a 3.7.3 as a final sendoff to the 3.7 series to go along with 3.8.1
15:09 Dyrcona I think our biggest sticking point is release notes for the bug fixes and contributors. The longer we go between releases, the wore work it ends up involving.
15:10 abneiman if that's a sticking point, I can put some time into release notes later this week
15:10 JBoyer I don't remember if someone is working on release note simplification or if there's something to look over to make it more automatic sitting somewhere.
15:10 * mmorgan can also help with release notes.
15:10 sandbergja I have a script that prints out some draft release notes to stdout
15:11 Dyrcona I have some ideas to try to automate release note generation or at least commit message summarization, but no time to really work on it.
15:11 sandbergja somewhere...
15:11 JBoyer That may be what I'm thinking of, sandbergja.
15:11 sandbergja bug 1948674
15:11 pinesol Launchpad bug 1948674 in Evergreen "Improve release building automation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1948674
15:11 sandbergja also: abneiman++
15:11 sandbergja mmorgan++
15:12 Dyrcona sandbergja: That looks interesting.
15:13 sandbergja if it would help, I'd be happy to run that script and send you the output as a starting place
15:13 abneiman sandbergja++
15:13 abneiman that would be a great start, thanks
15:13 mmorgan sandbergja++
15:13 Dyrcona I have a script that I used at MVLC to come up with summaries of changes for the directors. It can does a git cherry to get the commits since the previous release and then dumps those commit messages into a LibreOffice document.
15:14 shulabear sandbergja++
15:14 phasefx #info phasefx = Jason Etheridge, EOLI
15:14 sandbergja Dyrcona: cool!
15:14 shulabear abneiman++ mmorgan++ dyrcona++
15:14 JBoyer I'd like to find time to check that out and see how many of the params can be guessed automagically by the script but I can't promise much at the moment.
15:14 JBoyer But it sounds like an action item
15:15 JBoyer #action sandbergja will prep auto-drafted release notes for abneiman and mmorgan to review for 3.7.3 and 3.8.1
15:15 Dyrcona I've been looking at how some other projects do releases, and many have abandoned tarballs.
15:15 JBoyer sandbergja++ abneiman++ mmorgan++
15:15 Dyrcona sandbergja++ abneiman++ mmorgan++
15:16 JBoyer Dyrcona, and moved to .db / .rpm or what do you mean?
15:16 JBoyer .deb, that is.
15:16 Dyrcona They just tag releases in their git repos, and they let others worry about packaging.
15:17 Dyrcona Some (mplayer2?) have even abandoned version numbers.
15:18 JBoyer Not sure how well that would play out. I don't think an ILS would fit well on the "The only version you need is the latest one" like a media player or browser.
15:19 JBoyer Missed some words in there. Treadmill was one I believe.
15:19 Dyrcona Sure, but we can tag releases. I came across some of this while looking into XMPP issues with OpenSRF on Ubuntu 22.04.
15:19 phasefx JBoyer: addendum for the meeting, live tester
15:20 JBoyer phasefx++ will add it to new business
15:21 JBoyer Dyrcona, do you think you have time to gather what some other projects do re: releases and put together some possibilities for consideration?
15:21 Dyrcona But, it would be nice if we cleaned up our build process so that we could just type 'make release' and have the tarball built for us by autotools.
15:22 Dyrcona JBoyer: I might have some time for that. I'll see what I can do.
15:22 JBoyer That would simplify a lot of things, yes.
15:22 JBoyer Dyrcona++
15:23 JBoyer #action Dyrcona will try to collect data on release processes across some open source projects for consideration
15:23 JBoyer Before moving on to new business I'll drop in the LP update real quick
15:24 JBoyer #topic Launchpad Status
15:24 JBoyer #info Snapshot
15:24 JBoyer #info Open Bugs - 2711
15:24 JBoyer #info Pullrequests - 84
15:24 shulabear Dyrcona++
15:24 JBoyer #info Signedoff - 32
15:24 JBoyer #info Updates Since Last Meeting
15:24 mmorgan Dyrcona++
15:24 JBoyer #info Bugs Added - 31
15:24 JBoyer #info Pullrequest tag Added - 15
15:24 * JBoyer #info Signedoff tag Added - 3
15:24 JBoyer #info Signedoff tag Added - 3
15:24 JBoyer #info Fix Committed - 8
15:24 JBoyer mmorgan++
15:24 JBoyer Ok, new stuff
15:25 JBoyer #topic New Business
15:25 JBoyer #info timeline for deprecating TPAC and the traditional staff catalogue
15:25 JBoyer Take it away, jeffdavis
15:25 jeffdavis So, uh, we should decide on a timeline for deprecating those tings.
15:25 jeffdavis Is 3.10 reasonable?
15:25 terranm +1
15:26 Dyrcona They're deprecated already, aren't they?
15:26 Dyrcona Well, I mean TPAC is no longer the default.
15:26 JBoyer Since that doesn't mean "remove" I don't see why not. And I'm kind of like Dyrcona, I thought the staff catalog basically was though I don't know that it has actually been spelled out.
15:28 * mmorgan would want to see more angular catalog bugs fixed before it's the only option.
15:28 JBoyer I wouldn't necessarily say that tpac has already been deprecated just because it's not the default; to me that would mean it gets nothing but security changes from now on. (Officially, as opposed to just not seeing any improvements)
15:28 terranm I think it's valuable to be clear that no bug fixes will be done on the old versions.
15:28 Dyrcona It would be nice to have a timeline for removal in addition to just deprecation. I can think of an example of something that was deprecated in 2004 and wasn't removed from Ejabberd until 2021. :)
15:28 jeffdavis *cough*xul*cough*
15:29 JBoyer Yup, and that.
15:29 terranm We've been solely on the Angular staff catalog and BooPAC since January 2021.
15:29 Dyrcona I think XUL was supposed to have been removed by now.
15:30 jeffdavis mmorgan: for me, part of the point of deprecation would be setting a clear target for resolving any major bugs still blocking use of the angular catalogue.
15:30 JBoyer Because of the way the "traditional" staff catalog works it will be easiest to remove both together. (not *required*, but significantly simpler.)
15:31 JBoyer And it sends a message to users still using the old interfaces that if they have an issue that's not present in the bootstrap opac or Angular catalog that those are their options for remedy, not an LP bug.
15:32 mmorgan jeffdavis: Makes sense. Essentially applies a deadline to getting those resolved.
15:32 terranm +1
15:33 JBoyer And with the improvements to both coming in 3.9+ I think 3.10 is a manageable target for deprecation. Might be trickier to try to determine a drop-dead date today, though. Feeling up for a vote?
15:34 jeffdavis I vote in favor of voting on deprecation
15:34 mmorgan If the deprecation target is set, and the major bugs don't get resolved, does deprecation still happen?
15:34 JBoyer mmorgan, major bugs in AngCat and BPAC or the older two?
15:34 mmorgan AngCat and BPAC
15:35 jeffdavis When we moved to the web-based client we had a "webstaffblocker" tag in Launchpad and did not release 3.0 until all bugs with that tag were resolved, IIRC. That's what I would want us to do for this too.
15:35 JBoyer Putting a flag in the ground may help get some traction for those bugs now while there's time. And jeffdavis's tag plan would likely also help with that.
15:36 JBoyer And that's still not removal, just "stick these in amber, they're done."
15:36 abneiman I could've sworn there was an "angcatblocker" tag in LP but I'm not finding it - there is 'boostrap-blocker' https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergree​n/+bugs?field.tag=bootstrap-blocker
15:36 terranm IIRC there was a similar tag for moving to BooPAC, but the blockers were all resolved ages ago
15:37 abneiman I have no idea why I cannot be consistent with my usage of quotes, lol
15:37 terranm Oh, my apologies, there are a couple still flagged as blockers
15:37 Dyrcona abneiman: It's IRC don't sweat it. :)
15:38 phasefx :')
15:38 shulabear abneiman: just looks like my early JS cod :)
15:38 terranm One of those is only a blocker if using the old staff catalog
15:39 terranm And I don't think the third is a blocker either
15:40 abneiman shulabear:  :-D
15:40 JBoyer Not if you have a local workaround (which you do), though it would be convenient to do something genericizable.
15:40 JBoyer OK! Keeping in mind that deprecation is not removal:
15:41 JBoyer #startvote Shall the TPAC and Traditional Staff Catalog(ue) be officially deprecated when 3.10 is released? yes, no, abstain
15:41 pinesol Begin voting on: Shall the TPAC and Traditional Staff Catalog(ue) be officially deprecated when 3.10 is released? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain.
15:41 pinesol Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
15:42 sandbergja #vote yes
15:42 JBoyer #vote yes
15:42 terranm #vote yes
15:42 collum #vote yes
15:42 abneiman #vote yes
15:42 Dyrcona #vote yes
15:42 jeffdavis #vote yes
15:42 phasefx #vote yes
15:42 mmorgan #vote yes
15:43 mmorgan +1 to an 'angcatblocker' tag
15:43 JBoyer #endvote
15:43 pinesol Voted on "Shall the TPAC and Traditional Staff Catalog(ue) be officially deprecated when 3.10 is released?" Results are
15:43 pinesol yes (9): mmorgan, JBoyer, sandbergja, phasefx, collum, Dyrcona, jeffdavis, terranm, abneiman
15:43 terranm There are 82 staff catalog bugs, so I propose - staffcatalogblocker
15:44 abneiman +1 to staffcatalogblocker
15:44 mmorgan +1
15:44 terranm I'll add it
15:44 JBoyer terranm++
15:44 mmorgan terranm++
15:44 jeffdavis terranm++
15:44 shulabear terranm++
15:44 JBoyer Thanks for bringing that up jeffdavis
15:45 JBoyer jeffdavis++
15:45 mmorgan jeffdavis++
15:45 abneiman jeffdavis++ terranm++
15:45 Dyrcona jeffdavis++
15:45 JBoyer Ok, and an update from phasefx
15:45 JBoyer #info Live tester update
15:45 phasefx ha, so speaking of blockers
15:45 phasefx we should probably start treating the live tester as a blocker
15:46 phasefx but I disabled it in April for fear that people would become inured to the daily error messages
15:46 phasefx I confess I haven't had any tuits since then to actually look at what the problem is
15:46 phasefx http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/archi​ve/2022-04/2022-04-25_16:00:04/test.49.html
15:46 sandbergja phasefx++ # thanks for bringing that up
15:47 shulabear phasefx++
15:47 Dyrcona phasefx: I think the failing test has to do with missing directories and autogen.sh. It should be resolved now.
15:47 JBoyer And I've seen that same test work on a local testing rig, though not one that's rebuilt from scratch like the live tester is, which is annoying.
15:47 phasefx so any love that can be put toward it would be much appreciated; I'm about to go on vacation, but will re-enable it; it picks up from a public repo that any commiter should have access to
15:48 sandbergja which repo is it, phasefx?
15:48 phasefx https://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=wo​rking/random.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/​heads/collab/phasefx/eg_live_tests
15:48 sandbergja phasefx++
15:49 phasefx EOLI hosts the machine (the test instigator) and the test vm, but in the past we've let community folks into it.  I'm sure such can be done again if needed
15:50 JBoyer And to Dyrcona's point above, I believe the autogen patch (and a followup) were already in master and it was still failing.
15:50 Dyrcona I think I used to have access to the old tester. I wouldn't mind looking into it.
15:51 JBoyer I'd also like to find time to redo the entire testing setup, but time to do so has not made itself available to me.
15:53 JBoyer It looks like Dyrcona and jeff have both had access in the past and still should (though that machine is not where the testing is actually done, just where the data is gathered) but let me know if you have time to look around and need any help
15:55 JBoyer Ok, any other new business before we wrap up?
15:55 Dyrcona JBoyer: I'll wager it
15:55 Dyrcona s my old key.
15:55 phasefx2 joined #evergreen
15:55 terranm Is there really going to be a June meeting at the same time since that is the EG Conf week?
15:56 JBoyer Ah, I hadn't looked into that. There's no point conflicting with anything in the same timeslot.
15:56 phasefx joined #evergreen
15:57 terranm Maybe just make the meeting part of the Friday Hackfest?
15:57 jeffdavis There is usually a dev meetup at the conference.
15:57 Dyrcona Yeahp.
15:57 * JBoyer furiously scrolls the conf schedule
15:57 collum During the hackfest?
15:57 abneiman joined #evergreen
15:59 JBoyer Yeah, the hackfest seems the best place for it; I don't want to try to take away from csharp_'s sys admin discussion or anything like that.
16:00 JBoyer Is everyone good with 3:00p on June 17th then?
16:00 Dyrcona We've usually had them during time when nothing else is going on, so I concur with during the hackfest.
16:01 JBoyer Not hearing any issues,
16:01 JBoyer #topic Announcements
16:01 JBoyer #info Next Meeting is June 17th at 3pm Eastern / 12 Pacific during the Conference Hackfest
16:01 JBoyer #endmeeting
16:01 pinesol Meeting ended Tue May 10 16:01:31 2022 US/Eastern.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
16:01 pinesol Minutes:        http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2022/evergreen.2022-05-10-15.00.html
16:01 pinesol Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2022/evergreen.2022-05-10-15.00.txt
16:01 pinesol Log:            http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergree​n/2022/evergreen.2022-05-10-15.00.log.html
16:01 jeffdavis JBoyer++
16:01 collum JBoyer++
16:01 mmorgan JBoyer++
16:01 terranm JBoyer++
16:01 abneiman JBoyer++
16:01 jeffdavis thanks for making these dev meetings happen!
16:01 Bmagic JBoyer++
16:01 sandbergja JBoyer++
16:01 shulabear Jboyer++
16:02 Dyrcona JBoyer++
16:03 sandbergja abneiman: mmorgan: here is what the script spit out for 3.8.1
16:03 sandbergja https://gist.githubusercontent.com/sandbergja/9​05d0f170d310f34ad8422bae50379f9/raw/87567a1df9e​5f83f32aa1df1310a6b55500109a2/3.8.1-draft.adoc
16:03 sandbergja and 3.7.3
16:03 sandbergja https://gist.githubusercontent.com/sandbergja/6​5ce8340796737beb1c0694cdb0ea1c2/raw/ca187bae24f​bbdbd94c45f6655c33241fe4a7c78/3.7.3-draft.adoc
16:04 sandbergja thank you for doing the release notes!
16:05 mmorgan sandbergja++
16:11 jvwoolf left #evergreen
16:20 JBoyer I don't have edit access to the dev calendar. Can someone move the June meeting from Tuesday to Friday?
16:39 Dyrcona JBoyer: Done!
16:40 JBoyer Dyrcona++
17:05 mmorgan left #evergreen
17:26 rjackson_isl_hom joined #evergreen
18:00 pinesol News from qatests: Failed Running perl live tests <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live//arch​ive/2022-05/2022-05-10_16:02:07/test.49.html>

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