| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:29 |
|
dpearl joined #evergreen |
| 00:42 |
|
bwicksall joined #evergreen |
| 02:36 |
|
Bmagic joined #evergreen |
| 02:36 |
|
foobarrel joined #evergreen |
| 02:36 |
|
dluch joined #evergreen |
| 03:23 |
|
ecrist1 joined #evergreen |
| 06:30 |
pinesol |
News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live> |
| 07:07 |
|
Dyrcona joined #evergreen |
| 07:10 |
|
rjackson_isl joined #evergreen |
| 07:34 |
|
bdljohn joined #evergreen |
| 08:16 |
|
kmlussier joined #evergreen |
| 08:39 |
|
yboston joined #evergreen |
| 08:40 |
|
mmorgan joined #evergreen |
| 08:45 |
|
kmlussier joined #evergreen |
| 08:54 |
|
idjit joined #evergreen |
| 09:01 |
|
Dyrcona joined #evergreen |
| 09:05 |
kmlussier |
@coffee [someone] |
| 09:05 |
* pinesol |
brews and pours a cup of Ethiopia Yirgacheffe, and sends it sliding down the bar to phasefx |
| 09:06 |
phasefx |
actually drinking Community Coffee with Chicory at the moment :) New Orleans style |
| 09:06 |
kmlussier |
@tea [someone] |
| 09:06 |
* pinesol |
brews and pours a pot of Honey Black Tea, and sends it sliding down the bar to miker (http://ratetea.com/tea/health-and-tea/honey-black-tea/7529/) |
| 09:08 |
kmlussier |
phasefx: I'm not a big fan of Chicory in my coffee. |
| 09:11 |
phasefx |
kmlussier: I hear you. Took me a while just to like coffee and beer :) I'm not quite there with wine yet |
| 09:18 |
* Dyrcona |
is drinking https://www.newmansown.com/beverages/organic-black-tea/ |
| 09:18 |
Dyrcona |
I have it iced. |
| 09:19 |
Dyrcona |
@swill [band] |
| 09:19 |
* pinesol |
grabs a forty of Molson Dry 6.5/7.5/8.5/10.1 and sends it sliding down the bar to New Hotness Copy Alerts |
| 09:21 |
csharp |
@band |
| 09:21 |
pinesol |
csharp: The EOLI Folk |
| 09:21 |
csharp |
@quote random |
| 09:21 |
pinesol |
csharp: Quote #171: "< JBoyer> \me hears the sound of one head clapping" (added by csharp at 01:53 PM, August 09, 2017) |
| 09:22 |
Dyrcona |
@quote random |
| 09:22 |
pinesol |
Dyrcona: Quote #120: "<rfrasur> And I'm not against a little food poisoning now and then, so long as it's moderate." (added by Dyrcona at 02:55 PM, June 30, 2015) |
| 09:27 |
csharp |
@coffee [band] |
| 09:27 |
* pinesol |
brews and pours a cup of Panama Esmeralda Mario Carnival, and sends it sliding down the bar to The Rural Jurors |
| 09:35 |
|
collum joined #evergreen |
| 09:43 |
|
jvwoolf joined #evergreen |
| 10:03 |
* Bmagic |
is drinking http://www.fretboardcoffee.com/shop/brazil-rose-diamond |
| 10:03 |
|
berick joined #evergreen |
| 10:19 |
|
collum joined #evergreen |
| 10:42 |
|
khuckins joined #evergreen |
| 10:46 |
|
abowling joined #evergreen |
| 11:02 |
|
rlefaive joined #evergreen |
| 11:13 |
|
JBoyer joined #evergreen |
| 11:23 |
|
kmlussier joined #evergreen |
| 11:30 |
|
abowling1 joined #evergreen |
| 11:32 |
|
khuckins joined #evergreen |
| 11:34 |
|
bdljohn1 joined #evergreen |
| 11:38 |
|
bdljohn joined #evergreen |
| 11:52 |
|
Christineb joined #evergreen |
| 11:58 |
|
abowling left #evergreen |
| 11:58 |
|
abowling joined #evergreen |
| 12:01 |
|
abowling left #evergreen |
| 12:01 |
|
bdljohn1 joined #evergreen |
| 12:01 |
|
abowling joined #evergreen |
| 12:03 |
|
beanjammin joined #evergreen |
| 12:03 |
|
rlefaive_ joined #evergreen |
| 12:05 |
|
bdljohn joined #evergreen |
| 12:11 |
|
bdljohn joined #evergreen |
| 12:11 |
|
jihpringle joined #evergreen |
| 12:19 |
mmorgan |
Here's a circ loophole I'm wondering if others have found a way to address. |
| 12:19 |
mmorgan |
A patron checks out an item that's due in 7 days with 2 renewals allowed. |
| 12:20 |
mmorgan |
They keep the item 5 weeks overdue, but are still able to renew the item because they have 2 renewals remaining. |
| 12:20 |
* Dyrcona |
thought there was a setting for that. |
| 12:21 |
* mmorgan |
looks at settings... |
| 12:25 |
Dyrcona |
Guess not. |
| 12:26 |
* mmorgan |
doesn't see one either. |
| 12:27 |
Dyrcona |
Sounds like a wishlist bug to me. |
| 12:30 |
kmlussier |
mmorgan: Could you do a renewal block for people with overdue items? Or is that excessive? |
| 12:31 |
* kmlussier |
often renews her items when they are one or two or twenty days overdue. :) |
| 12:31 |
Dyrcona |
Long overdue might make more sense than just overdue, if you're using long overdue. |
| 12:31 |
jeff |
mmorgan: what are you hoping to have happen? what is the "loophole" that you're trying to close? |
| 12:33 |
mmorgan |
We do use long overdue, we block patrons from checkout, renew, etc. when items are six weeks overdue. We prefer to allow renewals on overdue items since patrons have the items anyway, it seems petty to say "you didn't renew it before it was overdue, so now you can't" |
| 12:34 |
mmorgan |
jeff: the patron is "allowed" to have the item for three weeks in all. They've already had it for 5 weeks, and the system is allowing them 2 more weeks. |
| 12:35 |
mmorgan |
The library asking the question would like to see no renewals allowed if the patron has already had the item for the total circ time allowed. |
| 12:36 |
Dyrcona |
That's gonna require some code, and probably a setting to make it optional. |
| 12:38 |
berick |
mmorgan: i'm assuming they've hit max fines by then? |
| 12:39 |
mmorgan |
berick: Not necessarily, but if they had hit max fines, they could pay them off with a credit card and renew their items. |
| 12:40 |
* mmorgan |
was looking at lp 1779920, which could go a long way toward eliminating remaining renewals on overdue transactions. |
| 12:40 |
jeff |
The patron would also be "allowed" to have it for the same amount of time if they renewed it twice and THEN had it five weeks overdue. |
| 12:40 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 1779920 in Evergreen "wishlist: Add Auto Renewal functionality" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1779920 |
| 12:40 |
berick |
jeff: exactly |
| 12:40 |
jeff |
And the patron would be penalized in the same ways (daily fines if any). |
| 12:41 |
berick |
at that point, they're just super overdue and paying fines |
| 12:41 |
berick |
"i can't renew it, oh well, guess i'll just stay overdue" |
| 12:41 |
berick |
might be cheaper for the patron not to renew it |
| 12:42 |
* jeff |
nods |
| 12:42 |
berick |
since they'll likely hit max fines on the circ in many cases |
| 12:43 |
jeff |
yeah, auto-renew "consuming" the renewals sounds like a better approach. I'm not sure it solves the problem, but it does adjust the staff perception of the problem a little bit. |
| 12:45 |
mmorgan |
This came up as more of a resource sharing issue. Items can circulate from non-owning libraries for one week with 2 renewals. If the patron comes in after having the item overdue, the non-owning library can renew it based on the renewals remaining. The owning library feels they should have had the item back 2 weeks ago. |
| 12:49 |
mmorgan |
I do think auto-renew will help in a lot of these situations. |
| 12:49 |
berick |
yeah |
| 12:51 |
mmorgan |
It's almost like there would need to be a block on transactions that fit certain criteria rather than patrons that fit certain criteria. |
| 12:52 |
Dyrcona |
Yeahp. That's what I was saying would require new code and a setting or ten. :) |
| 12:52 |
mmorgan |
:) |
| 12:52 |
Dyrcona |
If this is not a frequent thing, it is probably not worth it. |
| 12:53 |
Dyrcona |
Staff have a tendency to let the software replace their own judgment. |
| 12:54 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona: But when you allow patron self service, it's all software :) |
| 12:54 |
Dyrcona |
Yeah, no doubt. |
| 12:55 |
Dyrcona |
Which goes back to how often does it happen. |
| 12:56 |
* mmorgan |
will follow up with the library, and may have a look at the circ tables to get an idea of how often it does happen. |
| 12:56 |
jeff |
In a slightly different environment where patrons cannot self-renew after the item is overdue, policy on staff renewals was recently changed from "at [staff] discretion" to "if the due date is within the prior 6 days.". The reason given was "Data analysis indicated that the more specific policy is needed." :-) |
| 12:57 |
jeff |
(another resource sharing system) |
| 12:57 |
|
rlefaive joined #evergreen |
| 12:58 |
jeff |
but there are several possible ways to make something like that be enforced in software, especially when it comes to patron self-renewal. |
| 12:59 |
Dyrcona |
Yeah. I can think of a couple of ways to tackle this issue, myself. |
| 13:00 |
Dyrcona |
Easiest is probably a setting to disallow renewal within X days of the due date as jeff mentioned. |
| 13:00 |
jeff |
a new field or fields for "not after" / "not before" on circs, preventing renewal before/after a certain interval from the due date is one option. could be set from the circ matrix similar to how existing rules for duration and fines are handled. |
| 13:00 |
Dyrcona |
That's probably better. |
| 13:01 |
Dyrcona |
Then, it can vary by matchpoint. |
| 13:01 |
jeff |
the not-before would mostly come into play if we introduced support for "early renewals lead to longer duration on the new circ" |
| 13:01 |
jeff |
or, "would mostly seem useful to me" in that scenario. |
| 13:03 |
mmorgan |
The not-before could help prevent patrons from "eating up" their own renewals. "Renew-all syndrome" |
| 13:03 |
Dyrcona |
The matchpoint could have intervals or null in those fields, and the circulation could have dates calculated from the xact_begin based on the intervals. |
| 13:03 |
Dyrcona |
I like this idea better than settings. |
| 13:04 |
Dyrcona |
Well, ou setttings.... |
| 13:04 |
Dyrcona |
jeff++ |
| 13:04 |
|
khuckins joined #evergreen |
| 13:04 |
Dyrcona |
mmorgan++ |
| 13:04 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona++ |
| 13:04 |
mmorgan |
jeff++ |
| 13:05 |
* mmorgan |
can open a wishlist bug and link back to this brainstorm. |
| 13:14 |
|
jvwoolf left #evergreen |
| 13:24 |
kmlussier |
mmorgan++ Dyrcona++ jeff++ |
| 13:28 |
mmorgan |
bug 1788905 |
| 13:28 |
pinesol |
Launchpad bug 1788905 in Evergreen "Wishlist: Prevent renewals when the patron has had the item for too much (or too little) time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1788905 |
| 13:47 |
jeff |
Another option (simpler, but less flexible) would be to have a "no renewals after reaching MAXFINES" or similar, but mmorgan indicated that isn't guaranteed to happen in the mentioned scenario. |
| 13:53 |
Dyrcona |
Well, there may be no fines charged. |
| 14:09 |
|
yboston joined #evergreen |
| 14:14 |
jeff |
Dyrcona: true, in which case MAXFINES would be set immediately, making that option a bit less useful. |
| 14:15 |
jeff |
could special-case that, but again... simpler option, but less flexible. |
| 14:20 |
|
bdljohn joined #evergreen |
| 14:24 |
Dyrcona |
Hm. Yeah. |
| 14:48 |
|
khuckins joined #evergreen |
| 16:06 |
* berick |
grabs 1120 |
| 16:09 |
|
yboston joined #evergreen |
| 16:30 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Ben Shum] LP#1768902: Add UPC to z3950 search for OCLC and LOC - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=0e9ae4e> |
| 16:30 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Ben Shum] LP#1768902: quick release note entry - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=4b4b69d> |
| 16:30 |
pinesol |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP#1768902 Stamping DB upgrade for Z39 UPC - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=f1c3c90> |
| 16:31 |
|
idjit left #evergreen |
| 16:31 |
|
idjit joined #evergreen |
| 17:01 |
|
mmorgan left #evergreen |
| 17:39 |
jeff |
@later tell Dyrcona did you ever determine the underlying cause/fix for your marc_export memory exhaustion on Perl >=5.20? |
| 17:39 |
pinesol |
jeff: The operation succeeded. |
| 18:09 |
|
abowling left #evergreen |
| 18:30 |
pinesol |
News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live> |
| 19:35 |
|
lsach joined #evergreen |
| 19:50 |
|
lsach joined #evergreen |
| 20:22 |
|
Phex joined #evergreen |
| 21:07 |
|
annieslmaos joined #evergreen |
