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IRC log for #evergreen, 2018-08-16

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06:31 pinesol News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
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11:14 * miker watches a tumbleweed roll by
11:20 * rhamby_ plays a six string guitar slowly
11:25 * phasefx dares the harmonica
11:28 phasefx oh give me a home, where the data does flow, and the patrons and librarians play; where seldom is heard, a discouraging word, and the software compiles today
11:31 JBoyer phasefx++
11:48 JBoyer If anyone wants to drop some knowledge on me when there's time, I was trying to figure out why we're using trigger based fake FK's in some of the places we are. It looks to me like it's doing the same thing as a regular constraint, aside from the "AFTER INSERT OR..." part.
11:53 miker JBoyer: inheritance, particularly the asset.copy -> serial.unit hierarchy. fkeys can't see child tables (for implementation reasons). if we're using them outside fkeys against acp or the money.payment hierarchy, that would be interesting to know
11:55 miker PG implementation reasons. PG requires a unique index on the referenced column, but does not have unique indexes that span tables (tables in an inheritance hierarchy, in this case). yet.
11:55 miker looks like that may be coming for PG 11 or 12
11:55 JBoyer That may be enough of an explainer then, I didn't realize the "select id from asset.copy" part of them included serial.unit. (I haven't experimented much and we have nothing in there anyway)
11:56 miker it does
11:56 JBoyer I've just been looking at the inventory date patch today so that's what had me wondering.
11:56 miker but the internal query generated for real fkeys says "select id from only asset.copy"
11:57 miker which stops PG from including child tables
11:57 JBoyer AH.
11:57 jeff https://www.postgresql.org/doc​s/9.6/static/ddl-inherit.html is a good starting point for inheritence, and the Caveats section is worth a read.
11:57 JBoyer Huh, that was a little more enthusiastic than intended. Ah.
11:57 JBoyer I'll check it out.
11:57 JBoyer miker++
11:58 JBoyer jeff++
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12:15 jeff Do we have a gneral framework for establishing defaults for user settings?
12:16 jeff gneral.
12:17 jeff Or even a way to distinguish between a value that has been defaulted vs one that has been explicitly set by the user. Probably not.
12:17 miker 1) new features are turned on and 2) don't change behavior at an upgrade ;)
12:17 miker jeff: oh, you mean a way to tell what the default was/is. nope
12:18 jeff And before that, selecting a default value for a setting on the patron registration / self registration interface, settable at an org unit level.
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12:20 miker I was actually thinking of YAOUSen... so, nm me. I think user settings are case-by-case
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13:38 csharp @quote add <phasefx> oh give me a home, where the data does flow, and the patrons and librarians play; where seldom is heard, a discouraging word, and the software compiles today
13:38 pinesol csharp: The operation succeeded.  Quote #190 added.
13:42 hbrennan phasefx++ csharp++
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13:45 miker T-15 until EOB meeting
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13:58 miker T-2 to EOB meeting start
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14:00 miker terran++ # agenda
14:00 miker ok ... we'll get started
14:00 miker #startmeeting 2018-08-16 - EOB meeting
14:00 pinesol Meeting started Thu Aug 16 14:00:59 2018 US/Eastern.  The chair is miker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01 pinesol Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:01 pinesol The meeting name has been set to '2018_08_16___eob_meeting'
14:01 miker #topic Introductions -- announce yourself, please
14:01 miker #info miker = Mike Rylander, EOLI
14:01 terran_ #info terran is Terran McCanna, PINES
14:01 agoben #info agoben is Anna Goben, Evergreen Indiana
14:01 collum #info collum is Garry Collum, KCPL
14:01 jvwoolf #info jvwoolf is Jessica Woolford, Bibliomation
14:01 JBoyer #info JasonB is Jason Boyer, Indiana State Library
14:02 miker I saw afterl join...
14:02 afterl yes
14:02 afterl #info afterl is Amy Terlaga, Bibliomation
14:02 hbrennan #info hbrennan is Holly Brennan Homer Public Library AK
14:02 hbrennan ahh
14:02 miker we may not get a scott
14:03 miker to start things off
14:03 miker #topic Approval or Correction of Minutes: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2018/evergreen.2018-07-20-14.03.html
14:03 rgagnon joined #evergreen
14:03 miker does anybody have anything to address re the minutes?
14:03 miker rgagnon: hello, and welcome!
14:04 rgagnon Thanks, sorry I'm late.
14:04 miker we just started to look at the minutes, very first thing, no worries
14:04 miker http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2018/evergreen.2018-07-20-14.03.html
14:04 rgagnon Look fine to me.
14:05 JBoyer I don't see anything that needs changed, no.
14:05 jvwoolf Nothing to add here.
14:05 agoben Same
14:05 miker motion to approve?
14:05 rgagnon So moved.
14:05 collum Second
14:05 miker #startvote Approve 2018-07-20 meeting minutes? yes, no
14:05 pinesol Begin voting on: Approve 2018-07-20 meeting minutes? Valid vote options are yes, no.
14:05 pinesol Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:06 terran_ #vote Yes
14:06 miker #vote yes
14:06 JBoyer #vote yes
14:06 collum #vote Yes
14:06 rgagnon #vote Yes
14:06 agoben #vote yes
14:06 jvwoolf #vote yes
14:06 hbrennan #vote yes
14:07 miker #endvote
14:07 pinesol Voted on "Approve 2018-07-20 meeting minutes?" Results are
14:07 pinesol yes (8): rgagnon, JBoyer, agoben, miker, terran_, collum, hbrennan, jvwoolf
14:07 miker Thanks. On to officer reports
14:07 miker #topic Chair report
14:07 miker Nothing much here that won't be discussed later
14:07 miker #topic Financial report
14:08 miker Galen is unavailable, so I don't have an updated ledger today.
14:08 miker However, we have several outstanding transactions that need to be addressed with SFC, which brings us to..
14:08 miker #topic SFC Update
14:08 miker #info SFC wants information on the logo artist we used before paying the $250 invoice.  They want to make sure the trademark and copyright are protected.
14:09 miker kmlussier: do I recall correctly that you were point on the logo redesign?
14:09 kmlussier miker: Yes, I've been waiting to hear back from them on what they need.
14:09 miker ok, perfect, thank. so you've been in contact with them in the last month?
14:09 afterl miker: I have
14:10 kmlussier Yes, I go through afterl
14:10 kmlussier miker / afterl: If they need a contract to be signed, I can make that happen. I'm sure it won't be a problem.
14:10 kmlussier But I would like to get that invoice paid. She's been waiting on it for a while.
14:10 miker That seems to be the concern, yeah
14:11 miker does the artist have a standard contract we can send SFC?
14:11 miker that is really a question we can answer out-of-band
14:11 kmlussier miker: We can check. She is also the same artist who did the work for the 2017 conference. Maybe there is a contract that we used then that could be repurposed?
14:13 miker the main thing is, can the EOB do anything to help? It seems like SFC hasn't been explicit yet about what they need, other than their surprise at not having a contract
14:14 rgagnon One of their messages expressed concern about who owned the rights to it
14:15 kmlussier miker: Let's chat after the meeting. After hearing the initial concern, I asked what they needed from us next, but never heard back. I'll touch base with Sam and see if she has a standard contract. If not, I could pull something together, but I assume it needs SFC review first.
14:15 miker afterl: do you want to just ask SFC for their simplest "copyright and trademark are retained by customer" contract?
14:15 afterl Yes, I can do that
14:15 miker sorry, was typing
14:16 afterl sorry
14:16 miker kmlussier: do you want to ask SFC for a simple contract, or should you and I chat first?
14:17 kmlussier miker: Getting a simple contract from them would be ideal. That way, it will start off with the language that is acceptable to them.
14:17 miker ok, let's see if we can do that...
14:18 afterl miker:  Just want to say that I've written Karen four times about this and have received no response.
14:18 miker #action afterl will ask SFC for a simple graphic design contract that make ownership of the work product explicit
14:18 miker oh, well
14:18 miker #info strike that last action
14:18 miker afterl: sorry, I didn't follow that. I misunderstood
14:19 afterl miker:  I haven't asked specifically for a simple contract
14:19 afterl But I've asked for guidance
14:20 miker do you want to give it one more try with that request, or do you want to hand that one off? I didn't realize they were being that unresponsive to you. I'm sorry
14:20 JBoyer Being contract related is this something Bradley could help with? (I may be misremembering his name, the SFC lawyer we've spoken to before?)
14:21 kmlussier JBoyer: You're thinking of Tony. But he is no longer with the Conservancy.
14:21 JBoyer Ah, well two strikes at once there. Thanks
14:21 afterl miker:  I'm willing to give it one more try but there are a number of issues that need addressing and I think they're waiting on us too.
14:22 afterl Wondering if we respond to their request, maybe that will help with ours.
14:22 kmlussier If it helps, I can always start off with a standard simple contract. Maybe they'll respond more quickly if they have something to react to?
14:22 JBoyer +1 to that.
14:22 miker afterl: my hope is we can separate them and push past the log jam.
14:22 miker kmlussier: +1 from me as well.
14:23 afterl miker:  I like kmlussier's suggestion
14:23 afterl +1
14:23 terran_ +1
14:23 hbrennan +1
14:23 collum +1
14:23 jvwoolf +1
14:23 rgagnon +1
14:23 miker awesome, so that's a start on the logo, thank you kmlussier!
14:23 miker #action kmlussier to create a basic contract re the logo artist and offer it to SFC
14:23 miker thanks!
14:24 miker Next on the SFC topic...
14:24 miker #info MOBIUS invoices from May/June (and, with recent work, likely more).  There is still some misunderstanding about Evergreen's use of the MOBIUS lawyers for NPO creation.
14:24 miker My understanding was the MOBIUS and SFC were going to set up a simple agreement for services to be provided by MOBIUS.
14:24 miker after the whole conference contract kerfluffle
14:25 terran_ That was my understanding too.
14:26 miker however, it seems that didn't happen. so I will try to link Donna and Karen back up for that, unless someone else would like to give it a shot.  I did not succeed last time...
14:26 JBoyer Where did that trail run cold, MOBIUS or SFC?
14:27 miker JBoyer: my understanding was that they were in direct contact for the purpose of ironing out some contractual agreement
14:28 miker something that wasn't burdensome to MOBIUS and gave SFC the legal papering they need
14:28 miker that's to say, I am not sure which or if one or the other dropped a ball...
14:28 JBoyer I see.
14:29 miker I did drop the "is this done?" checking ball, though.
14:29 agoben Karen's one email indicated a preference that no contract be signed between them.
14:30 agoben From May 24th.  Not sure if I missed more recent updates to that convo though in my search.
14:30 * miker looks
14:30 agoben May be just have been in reference to the conference though, on re-reading.
14:31 miker yes, that is how I read her initial email in the thread, too
14:32 miker then we had the conference call, though, and my recollection is that SFC and MOBIUS had more to discuss, and would.
14:32 miker but I don't have good notes from the call, unfortunately
14:33 JBoyer Oh, and the reason I mistook Tony for Bradley is that Bradley Kuhn was in the MOBIUS invoice thread when Karen was unavailable. Maybe he can help move a couple things along or at least make sure our messages are getting somewhere.
14:34 JBoyer Abra-ca-CC:'d and all that.
14:34 miker so, maybe we just need to clarify the role of MOBIUS with SFC, in the broader context. services post-separation.
14:34 jvwoolf That seems to be what Karen is looking for in the email about the invoices.
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14:34 miker I hesitate to bring Bradly into ongoing and complicated discussions, TBH
14:36 JBoyer That's fair. But if no one can get a reply from Karen he might be a potential starting point to continue the discussion.
14:36 miker and, holy wow, I never even saw that invoice thread in june
14:36 JBoyer I was about to say, in their defense I didn't see any replies to that thread either. :/
14:36 miker ok, I'll reply on that thread and attempt to provide clarity
14:37 miker it will be in the morning tomorrow, though
14:37 jvwoolf miker: Do you want to be poked in the future, if we don't see reply come through on something like that?
14:38 miker #action mike will get back to the MOBIUS invoice thread, try to provide clarity
14:39 miker jvwoolf: I heartily encourage all board members to go ahead and engage, especially if something looks abandoned. or poke me if there's consensus and I'm just not providing that to SFC (or whoever)
14:40 miker alright... moving on to the final SFC item for the day (before SFC eats the whole hour)
14:41 miker #info as of 2018-08-01 we don't have confirmation that all the 2017 and 2018 conference-related transactions have been pushed to the final ledger. But, I don't have a ledger dump from today, so I suggest we table this until we do.
14:41 miker which
14:41 miker #action mike will request an updated ledger report from Galen, once he's available next week
14:42 miker if it's still substantially out of date, we need to figure out why
14:42 miker as a separate issue to the first two above
14:43 miker and, finally, afterl: do you have any more fun SFC stuff of note from the last month?
14:43 afterl Well, there are more conference related issues.
14:43 miker that reads much snarkier than I intended after our SFC discussion...
14:43 miker afterl: 2017 or 2018 conference?
14:44 afterl Both
14:44 afterl No
14:44 miker I mean, one or both of those, or do you mean 2019
14:44 miker ok
14:44 afterl 2018 and 2019
14:44 afterl For 2018 I'm still waiting to hear about the final totals
14:44 afterl but that's related to your ledger concerns
14:45 afterl There's at least one check I know of that didn't get cashed
14:45 miker yeah, I don't want to jump on them if the ledger actually is up to date now :)
14:45 afterl Right.
14:45 afterl And Scott is still waiting to hear about the registration setup for 2019
14:46 terran_ For the check, was that a check they sent out or a check they took in?
14:46 afterl Check they took in
14:46 miker against a 2018 conference A/R? or new for 2019
14:46 afterl 2018
14:47 terran_ So that's similar to the previous year when it took them what, 9 months, to update our income?
14:47 afterl I guess that's right
14:47 afterl I can try to follow up on these conference matters with Bradley
14:48 afterl He does respond eventually.
14:49 afterl Failing  that, a call might be in order for all of this.
14:49 afterl But I think that's it.  You touched on the main issues.
14:49 miker ok, thank you
14:50 miker #action afterl will follow up with Bradley re conference transactions
14:50 t0ne27 joined #evergreen
14:50 miker whew, ok. next up
14:50 miker #topic Release manager (Bill Erickson)
14:50 miker Bill, any updates/requests/etc to share?
14:50 miker berick: -^ sorry
14:51 miker we may not have a berick available... so, we'll move on to committees
14:51 miker #topic 2019 Conference committee (Scott Thomas)
14:52 miker I have an update from Scott: 2019 Conference: Planning is on schedule. We have a logo and are about to start working on sponsorships and lining up a keynote.
14:52 miker anyone else have 2019 updates they're aware of?
14:52 collum The webpage has been started. https://evergreen-ils.org/conference/20​19-evergreen-international-conference/
14:53 terran_ And we'll be starting regular conference committee meetings in September
14:53 terran_ We got the food menu and are perusing snack options :D
14:53 miker most important part of the conf!
14:54 afterl collum, terran_ ++
14:54 terran_ I'm lobbying for the ice cream sundae bar
14:54 hbrennan ohh that was fun in Hood River
14:54 miker As you should, as you should.
14:54 afterl ice cream sundae bar ++
14:54 miker just so we don't overrun time by too much
14:54 miker #topic Outreach committee (Kathy Lussier)
14:54 miker Kathy, anything outreachy to update us on, or needs from the committee?
14:55 kmlussier Yes
14:55 kmlussier I shared two voting matters with the EOB earlier this month. One related to our funding request for the year, and the other relates to adopting the new official logo for use when a logo is required for a round or square space.
14:55 kmlussier #link http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/e​g-oversight-board/2018-August/002249.html
14:55 kmlussier We should probably hold off on voting on the logo until the contract / payment issues are resolved.
14:56 kmlussier miker: If you want to hold off on voting on the funding request until the next meeting, that's fine. Not much time left in this meeting.
14:56 miker kmlussier: I appreciate that, and I think you can count on the support of the board
14:57 terran_ +1
14:57 kmlussier Also, we had a productive meeting earlier this month. We're brainstorming ideas on acknowledging people who help out in the community, on making the web site more useful to people outside the community, and on a central core message for outreach.
14:57 agoben +1
14:57 kmlussier More info here - https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.​php?id=outreach:meetings:2018-08-01
14:57 kmlussier That's it from me.
14:57 terran_ kmlussier++
14:57 miker kmlussier++
14:57 jvwoolf kmlussier++
14:57 rgagnon kmlussier ++
14:57 agoben kmlussier++
14:57 hbrennan kmlussier:++
14:57 collum kmlussier++
14:57 miker #topic Update on nonprofit status
14:57 miker From Scott: IRS 1023: I am working with Jenkins & King on the narrative for the form. The EOB will need to pass a COI policy. We will also need last year’s financial information from SFC.
14:57 miker Can I get a volunteer to find some likely COI policies we can evaluate? Note: implementation will require a consent decree or a phone meeting, but we can discuss via email.
14:58 rgagnon I can provide the standard IRS one, which is typically used.
14:58 miker rgagnon: do you want to be the holder of the COI for the 1023 process?
14:59 rgagnon Sure, I can work on that part.
14:59 miker thanks. we just need to circulate and get general approval. after that, I'll pull together a consent degree for us to sign in counterparts
15:00 terran_ rgagnon++ miker++
15:00 agoben rgagnon++
15:00 collum rgagnon++ miker++
15:00 JBoyer rgagnon++
15:00 jvwoolf rgagnon++
15:00 miker #action rgagnon will wrangle a COI policy into shape for us to submit with the 1023
15:00 miker we're close to the end, and I have some /good/ news
15:01 miker #topic Search for an Evergreen lawyer
15:01 miker #info I found 3 lawyers that seem worth investigating. In no particular order:
15:01 miker #info https://www.martindale.com/st-louis/misso​uri/goldstein-and-pressman-p-c-1044427-f/
15:01 miker #info https://www.martindale.com/chesterfield​/missouri/roger-r-fagerberg-1046792-f/
15:01 miker #info https://www.lawyers.com/kansas-city/​missouri/slagle-bernard-and-gorman-a​-professional-corporation-1035672-f/
15:01 miker All three mention non-profits (or tax exempt orgs) and corporate or small-biz law
15:01 miker Who would like to draft a set of questions so that we might evaluate them?  And, more imporantly, can I get a volunteer or three to initiate contact with them, explain our needs, and evaluate their suitability?
15:03 jvwoolf I can be a contacter
15:03 jvwoolf I would want help getting a message together to send, though
15:03 miker jvwoolf++ # thank you
15:03 rgagnon jvwoolf++
15:03 terran_ jvwoolf++
15:03 agoben jvwoolf++
15:04 collum jvwoolf++
15:04 miker note: I suspect it will end up being a phone call after initial email
15:04 miker I'm happy to be on that call, but really want broader input on how we will evaluate fit
15:05 jvwoolf miker: Yes, please be on the call :)
15:05 miker jvwoolf: would you mind starting an email discussion to flesh that out some? I think community input would be useful here
15:05 terran_ Or how about a shared doc with possible questions?
15:06 miker on the eob@evergreen-ils.org list, I mean.
15:06 miker terran_: perhaps in addition to, to collect the discussion in a more final form?
15:06 terran_ +1
15:06 miker +1 to shared docs, yes
15:07 jvwoolf miker: terran: Yes, I want everyone's input
15:07 miker awesome, folks
15:07 jvwoolf Expect that first draft to be very basic :)
15:09 miker #action jvwoolf will create a shared doc (or use one created by someone else) and email thread to fill it with lawyer evaluation input on the eob mailing list
15:09 miker that's all the existing business to go through. does anyone have new business to raise?
15:10 JBoyer None here.
15:10 miker if not, we're 10 mins over, and I want to set you all free
15:10 miker then, hearing nothing
15:10 terran_ I don't have anything
15:10 miker Thanks all!
15:10 miker #endmeeting
15:10 pinesol Meeting ended Thu Aug 16 15:10:29 2018 US/Eastern.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
15:10 pinesol Minutes:        http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2018/evergreen.2018-08-16-14.00.html
15:10 pinesol Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2018/evergreen.2018-08-16-14.00.txt
15:10 pinesol Log:            http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergree​n/2018/evergreen.2018-08-16-14.00.log.html
15:10 JBoyer miker++
15:10 terran_ Ciao!
15:10 collum miker++
15:10 rgagnon miker++
15:10 JBoyer kmlussier++
15:10 jvwoolf miker++
15:10 JBoyer jvwoolf++
15:10 hbrennan miker++
15:10 terran_ miker++
15:10 JBoyer afterl++
15:10 agoben miker++
15:10 hbrennan jvwoolf++
15:11 miker jvwoolf++
15:11 miker kmlussier++
15:11 miker afterl++
15:11 miker rgagnon++
15:11 miker all for taking stuff off my plate
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15:45 miker jeff++ # protecting IRC from gremlins
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17:06 kmlussier Wow! People are definitely more interested in the item vs. copy question than they were in the cart vs. basket question. 97 responses so far.
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18:32 pinesol News from qatests: Testing Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
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