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IRC log for #evergreen, 2017-10-27

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
06:02 pinesol_green News from qatests: Test Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
08:29 mmorgan joined #evergreen
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09:05 Dyrcona joined #evergreen
09:18 Bmagic Has anyone "turned off" bib editing while 3rd party vendors perform authority on the DB? If so, which method? I was considering permissions and/or DB table rule
09:19 Bmagic JBoyer: might as well have the option if it's not too much trouble
09:20 yboston joined #evergreen
09:27 Dyrcona Bmagic: I've never done that and we do authority loads every quarter, and I still have to send last quarter's file....
09:27 Dyrcona IOW: I don't think it is necessary, really.
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09:48 kmlussier Happy Friday #evergreen!
09:48 kmlussier @coffee [someone]
09:48 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of Kenya Ndiara, and sends it sliding down the bar to phasefx
09:48 kmlussier @tea [someone]
09:48 * pinesol_green brews and pours a pot of Greenfield Estate Ceylon Black Tea, and sends it sliding down the bar to berick (http://ratetea.com/tea/arbor-teas/​greenfield-ceylon-black-tea/4363/)
09:49 mmorgan kmlussier: Happy Friday!!
09:50 jeff happy friday!
10:00 csharp hmm - my custom reporter sources are not showing up in the web client's reporter UI
10:00 csharp they're in the fieldmapper and show in the XUL client fine
10:03 JBoyer Bmagic, we used permissions, though only for the initial (full db) update. Since then we just send whatever, whenever.
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10:05 csharp berick: following up on yesterday's issue, here's an activity log entry for entering the Surveys UI within a patron record:
10:05 csharp 2017-10-27 06:32:26 my-head osrf_websocket_translator: [ACT:10355:./osrf_websocket_tran​slator.c:769:15091002841035520] [<REDACTED IP>] [] open-ils.pcrud open-ils.pcrud.search.asvr "<REDACTED AUTHTOKEN>", {"usr":"1175852"}, {"flesh":4,"flesh_fields":{"asvr":["question​","survey","answer"],"asv":["responses","que​stions"],"asvq":["responses","question"]}}
10:06 csharp and then, for at least 20+ hours, I can see perm checks in the logs for each action.survey_response row
10:06 csharp (in the postgres logs)
10:07 csharp exhausting pcrud drones everywhere and leading to jabber layer errors
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10:41 jeff hah! is it fetching the answers for the user, but then fleshing the question for those answers, and then the answers for those questions?
10:42 csharp jeff: I don't know :-( - if there's a way to confirm that with logs, I can search
10:43 csharp I just learned that the XUL client calls 'open-ils.circ.survey.response.retrieve' rather than using pcrud, which explains why this wasn't an issue there
10:58 * csharp tries to learn what "flesh: 4" means in practice
11:00 Dyrcona csharp: It means you're fleshing up to 4 levels deep.
11:01 Dyrcona I can't think of anything that would go that deep off the top of my head, but it is OK to set that value higher than you actually use.
11:01 Dyrcona If you get it too low, I think it stops looking and you don't get all the data you wanted.
11:01 Dyrcona Say, you're going from acp -> acn -> bre, that's a flesh depth of 2.
11:03 Dyrcona I don't think the 1st one counts, but it has been a while since I've written code to do a flesh, so I might be off by 1. :)
11:04 csharp ah - makes sense - thank you
11:06 Dyrcona Some of that fleshing in the log you pasted earlier looks redundant to me, but I don't know if the fields with the same names all point to the same things or not.
11:07 Dyrcona No, it's not redundant. You'd need to specify everything you want fleshed in the object.
11:08 Dyrcona There might be a better way to get all of that data together, though.
11:08 csharp I'm going to dig a little deeper into which actual asvr rows are being checked - if jeff is right, it's probably the voter registration question, which should have at least one response from every user ever
11:09 Dyrcona Also, I think pcrud is going to check permissions on every call. I'm not sure what it does with fleshing.
11:10 Dyrcona From what you describe, it sounds like it is checking for every fleshed row, too.
11:12 jeff asv = survey, asvq = survey questions, asvr = survey responses (answers).
11:13 Dyrcona yes.
11:13 Dyrcona :)
11:13 jeff er, no.
11:13 Dyrcona No?
11:13 jeff asvr is response, not answer. there's answers also.
11:13 Dyrcona Ah, details.... :)
11:13 Dyrcona Always another layer of indirection. :)
11:14 jeff i think the fleshing arguments are causing a problem with anything but a trivial/empty dataset. it looks like it's searching for all responses for a single user, and requesting that the question, survey, and answer be fleshed.
11:14 Dyrcona Yes, that is what that is doing.
11:15 jeff problem is that for every question (asvq) it's also asking that all responses be fleshed.
11:15 jeff or am i misreading?
11:15 Dyrcona And it's starting from responses, since that's the object method used.
11:16 Dyrcona The "responses" in asvq could probably be dropped. In hindsight, I'm probably wrong about that not being redundant.
11:16 csharp I was just thinking that
11:17 Dyrcona And in asv for that matter, assuming they are the same as the asvr object retrieved in the first place.
11:17 csharp (dropping 'responses' might fix it)
11:17 jeff also "asvq":["responses","question"] looks wrong because action.survey_question.question is TEXT, not an id pointing to an object that can be fleshed.
11:17 Dyrcona Right, nothing there to flesh, then.
11:18 Dyrcona So drop asvq from flesh_fields entirely.
11:18 csharp e2ee72f2
11:18 pinesol_green csharp: [evergreen|Kyle Huckins] LP#1511358 Patron Survey Interface - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=e2ee72f>
11:18 csharp bug 1511358
11:18 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1511358 in Evergreen "webclient: Surveys are not accessible from patron account" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511358
11:20 Dyrcona csharp: You know how to write a small Perl program to make those calls? If so, that would be a good way to test changes to that code.
11:21 csharp Dyrcona: I don't, unfortunately :-/
11:25 Dyrcona I can paste something for you in a bit. Got something else to do right now.
11:25 csharp Dyrcona: that would be great! - thank you
11:33 * JBoyer throws shade at pcrud when open-ils.circ.survey.response.retrieve exists.
11:37 Dyrcona Nothing wrong with pcrud, though it might not be the optimal choice in this case.
11:37 JBoyer Perhaps "pcrud use when..." would have been more accurate.
11:38 Dyrcona JBoyer s'alright. Don't sweat it. :)
11:40 jeff csharp: is there a followup feature where the ability to answer surveys is added, or is that just not a thing yet?
11:40 * jeff looks
11:43 csharp jeff: I think they're answered in the patron editor, but I'm not sure
11:44 csharp yeah - at the bottom of the patron editor
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11:44 jeff helps if i remember to start the survey.
11:45 csharp jeff: and I think a quirk of surveys is that you have to start them the next day (i.e., not today)
12:09 pastebot "Dyrcona" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "For csharp: pcrud script." (55 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/908
12:12 Dyrcona And, that was an obvious edit of a script I wrote earlier this week to test something in open-ils.reporter.
12:12 csharp Dyrcona++ # will test :-)
12:13 Dyrcona I would have changed the $reporter variable to $request if I'd noticed. :)
12:14 Dyrcona I haven't run that script, either, so beware typos.
12:14 jeff confirmed in webby, it's fleshing far too much.
12:15 Dyrcona Grr....
12:15 * Dyrcona let's it go.
12:15 Dyrcona I mistyped in channel. What's new? :)
12:15 csharp @praise Dyrcona
12:15 * pinesol_green And Dyrcona raised the report up on high, saying O Lord, bless this thy circ report, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
12:15 Dyrcona s/reporter/session/ in that script.
12:16 Dyrcona If it bothers you... if not....who cares? :)
12:17 csharp no prob ;-)
12:20 Dyrcona I recommend running that on a utility server.
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12:23 jeff i'm wondering how it went on for 20+ hours.
12:23 * jeff muses and mutters a little more quietly
12:29 Bmagic Anyone have troubles with libraries billing one another for lost items? There is a situation that I can't think of a solution for. Library A invoices B for X items. B pays A. Then, using the same report, A generates a report and bills B for some of the same items because the patrons haven't paid B yet
12:30 jeff the flesh options on that call should be changed, and there may be some assumptions in the js and/or template for survey display that need adjusting.
12:31 jeff csharp: when surveys are present in the user editor, should they always be empty response-wise, so that staff can ask the patron over and over each time they are in the editor?
12:31 jeff csharp: or should the previous values show there in the editor?
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12:48 pinesol_green [evergreen|Jeanette Lundgren] docs: LP1717583 add details about aged circulation - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=b5d42fe>
12:53 Dyrcona Bmagic: Why are libraries billing libraries? Shouldn't that only involve patrons and the library that owned the item?
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12:54 Bmagic its when Library A lends Library B the item, and Library B's patron loses it. Library B's patron is suppose to pay it but weather or not, Library B owes Library A
12:55 Dyrcona Bmagic: No. Library B's patron owes for the lost item. Whom they owe is a question of policy and not a technical one.
12:55 Bmagic Library B can't be expected to wait for the patron to pay, so Library B just invoices A at regular intervals, and there isn't a way to flag the bill as having been paid to the remote Library other than maybe Patron Alert
12:56 Bmagic Dyrcona: the policy is that the patron owes the owning library, but they only inneract with their home library.
12:57 Dyrcona That's a policy issue, and not a technical issue in Evergreen. If you you want to make changes to the code to help facilitate that policy, patches are welcome. :P
12:57 Bmagic I'm not jumping to code at this stage, just trying to put some feelers out and see how others might handle it
12:59 Dyrcona We don't.
12:59 Dyrcona Our libraries don't bill each other for things that other libraries' patrons have lost, AFAIK.
12:59 mmorgan In our consortium, the patron owes the owning library for the lost item, but the owning library doesn't get the money until the patron actually pays.
13:00 Dyrcona My knee-jerk reaction is to tell them to stop doing that.
13:00 Dyrcona Yeah, what mmorgan said. :)
13:01 mmorgan If the patron never pays, the owning library has the right to expect payment from the lending library, though often they do not pursue it.
13:01 mmorgan Generally, when the owning library receives payment, the transaction is closed, so it would no longer appear on any reports.
13:05 mmorgan Bmagic: You could potentially do something on the patron record when Library A pays Library B. Library A could close the transaction and add their own billing to the patron record to recoup the $. Seems labor intensive, though.
13:05 Bmagic that's a good idea
13:06 Bmagic thanks! I will bring it up at the meeting
13:06 Dyrcona I'd recommend asking them to find another way to resolve this.
13:07 Bmagic I agree with you Dyrcona
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13:59 jeff there are days when i think i'm getting better at using jq, and there are days when i just give in and supplement what i know with a blunt usage of grep.
14:02 csharp jeff: empty in the user editor - unfortunately there's no "we've already answered this so don't ask again" feature
14:19 csharp btw, the lack of such a feature means that required surveys require an answer every time you edit and save the record
14:19 csharp but that's a bug report for another day
15:02 csharp I was just thinking about the fact that concerto doesn't approximate "real"
15:02 csharp or realistic data scale
15:03 csharp I think it would be beneficial to host a more realistic dataset somewhere that people can download for testing larger things
15:03 jeff *nod*
15:04 * csharp isn't expressing himself well
15:04 jeff and/or generators.
15:04 csharp anyway - keep concerto around for basic proof of concept, but when doing testing for signoffs, require the larger dataset
15:04 csharp just thinking out loud
15:05 * mmorgan agrees. Many times production level data makes all the difference.
15:06 Dyrcona Yeah. It does.
15:08 kmlussier csharp: There are several projects that I will only test using something closer to production data. For example, the recent 3.0 search work was tested against a much larger dataset.
15:08 kmlussier Testing search against Concerto is never a good idea.
15:08 csharp kmlussier: that's good to hear
15:09 csharp well, I'm very happy we test extensively before go-live
15:09 csharp this probably would have brought us to our knees on day one
15:10 csharp fwiw, the offending code is also in 2.12 - which tells me that not many are using the web client in production yet
15:10 kmlussier csharp: Maybe, but do you have a good sense of how many people are using surveys?
15:11 csharp kmlussier: everyone in PINES uses surveys - we require it to record voter registration
15:12 Dyrcona You can register to vote at the library?
15:12 csharp and it's a legal requirement, so every patron since 2006 should have an entry
15:12 Dyrcona I'm not surprised... OK. I am surprised that you have to record if someone is registered to vote or not.
15:12 csharp Dyrcona: yeah - it's legally required for Georgia libraries to offer voter registration when registering for a card/address update/etc.
15:13 Dyrcona Oh, that isn't so surprising, in that case. I was imagining something else.
15:13 csharp it's an agreement with the Georgia Secretary of State's office that we record it in Evergreen rather than requiring paper copies
15:13 * Dyrcona needs a break.
15:14 * Dyrcona takes that break.
15:14 kmlussier csharp: Yeah, I remember hearing that about using surveys for voter registration.
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18:02 pinesol_green News from qatests: Test Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live>
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