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pinesol_green |
News from qatests: Test Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live> |
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| 08:10 |
csharp |
dbwells++ |
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| 08:59 |
Dyrcona |
So thing have improved more after the analyze, but I still see those queries running for up to 6 seconds. |
| 09:00 |
Dyrcona |
At least, that's the time I was able to catch with a couple of spot checks. |
| 09:01 |
Dyrcona |
OK. I just saw one go for 19+ seconds, so likely nothing has improved over changing the actor.org_unit_descendants function. |
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| 10:55 |
berick |
just had 2 browser client tabs stay logged in over night. it's polling session validity by calling open-ils.auth.session.retrieve, but that API resets the timeout. may need to give session.retrieve a no-reset option for read-only checks or create an alterate "session.exists" API. wonder why that doesn't affect the xul client... |
| 10:55 |
* berick |
returns to this later |
| 11:01 |
miker |
berick: IIRC, xul doesn't poll, it just notices on an action or page load and kicks you out, no? (I looked for a setTimeout-based poll, didn't see one at a glance, but could have missed) |
| 11:10 |
Dyrcona |
No, xul doesn't poll. Maybe the web staff client shouldn't either? |
| 11:12 |
* mmorgan |
would prefer knowing upfront that the auth session had expired, rather than only being told when attempting to do something that required authorization. |
| 11:12 |
berick |
yeah, i think you're right. thing is, we don't want to leave a browser tab open w/ sensitive data, hence the polling. |
| 11:13 |
Dyrcona |
A number (most?) back end calls that check perms also do a session retrieve. I believe that is intentional. |
| 11:14 |
berick |
i guess the xul client also has the optional idle timeout, that causes it to minimize |
| 11:14 |
Dyrcona |
You don't find out in the XUL client that your session has timed out until you try to do something. |
| 11:15 |
mmorgan |
Right, which is very confusing for staff. |
| 11:16 |
berick |
yeah, we're not going back to that |
| 11:16 |
mmorgan |
If the web client timed out, IMO it should return to a login prompt. |
| 11:16 |
berick |
mmorgan: that's what it's supposed to do now. the implementation just needs some help. |
| 11:17 |
Dyrcona |
Trouble with that is, the session is managed by the server, so as berick said earlier, we'd need to poll with an option to not reset the session start time. |
| 11:17 |
Dyrcona |
Of have a push notification of some kind. Remember those? :) |
| 11:17 |
mmorgan |
Yes, I've seen that, and it makes logical sense. |
| 11:18 |
Dyrcona |
Yay! Now staff are complaining about the issue I'm seeing in the database with the mk_copy_query SQL. |
| 11:19 |
csharp |
working on bug 1724321 - does anyone have pointers on where duplicate TCN detection happens - in the perl layer? |
| 11:19 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1724321 in Evergreen "Web Client -- existence of record with duplicate TCN does not prevent import" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724321 |
| 11:20 |
* csharp |
can't see anything in Open-ILS/web/js/ui/default/staff/cat/z3950/app.js that looks like it happens there |
| 11:20 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona: What do staff see in the client when they hit that query problem? |
| 11:21 |
berick |
csharp: Cat/BibCommon.pm |
| 11:21 |
Dyrcona |
See? They just complain it takes 30+ seconds to load a record. |
| 11:21 |
csharp |
berick: thanks - I'll have a look |
| 11:21 |
Dyrcona |
I'm gonna see if I can mangle the JSON query into something that produces the faster query that miker pasted yesterday. |
| 11:22 |
Dyrcona |
csharp: What Pg version are you on? I know NOBLE is on 9.4. |
| 11:23 |
* Dyrcona |
wonders if this is a 9.5 thing.... |
| 11:24 |
* Dyrcona |
is tempted to just grab the ticket, but I'll let libapps staff assign it to me. :) |
| 11:25 |
Dyrcona |
Is there a method call that will return the SQL from a JSON query? That would be mighty handy about now. |
| 11:25 |
Dyrcona |
I know I can convert JSON to Perl and vice versa.... |
| 11:29 |
csharp |
Dyrcona: we're on 9.4 |
| 11:29 |
csharp |
upgrading to 9.5 next month |
| 11:30 |
Dyrcona |
So, maybe it is a 9.5 planner thing? |
| 11:30 |
Dyrcona |
I mentioned earlier that the analyze didn't help this query. |
| 11:30 |
Dyrcona |
So, guess I'll make a branch this afternoon and try fixing it. |
| 11:35 |
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| 11:46 |
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| 11:47 |
miker |
Dyrcona: IIRC, dbwells had a reformulation of the query that made acn the core table, which in turn caused it to always come first in the join tree, and then the where clause go the record filter and it was applied first, making the query fast. it think that caused problems for uses of the Util.pm function -- the FROM clause structure changed and required adjustments elsewhere throughout other modules like circ |
| 11:48 |
Dyrcona |
miker: Thanks. I had forgotten that the branch is on the bug. |
| 11:48 |
Dyrcona |
I also wonder why this doesn't seem to be a problem on our training server. It is also running Pg 9.5. |
| 11:49 |
Dyrcona |
Unless we're just more patient with training. :) |
| 11:50 |
Dyrcona |
Oh, right. Not a branch. jeff has a branch on a different bug. |
| 11:51 |
miker |
ah, sorry. from memory :) |
| 11:51 |
miker |
jeff++ |
| 11:52 |
Dyrcona |
Ah ha! |
| 11:54 |
Dyrcona |
Before I do anything drastic, I'm going to change where I set PERL_HASH_SEED=0 to PERL_PERTURB_KEYS=0 |
| 11:54 |
Dyrcona |
Reading the release notes makes that seem like a better option. |
| 11:54 |
Dyrcona |
Not sure that will really help, but seems like it's worth a shot. |
| 11:59 |
dbwells |
I think PERL_HASH_SEED=0 sets PERL_PERTURB_KEYS to 0 as well :( |
| 12:01 |
Dyrcona |
Yeah, so say the release notes. |
| 12:17 |
dbwells |
Also, I think us setting the HASH_SEED just makes the order predictable, it doesn't give us back the old order. As far as I can tell, only the PERL_HASH_FUNC_ONE_AT_A_TIME_OLD compile flag can do that. |
| 12:17 |
Dyrcona |
Yeah. |
| 12:18 |
Dyrcona |
Also jeffdavis++ I wrongly implicated jeff above. :) |
| 12:18 |
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| 12:31 |
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| 12:33 |
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| 12:34 |
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| 12:39 |
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| 12:50 |
jeffdavis |
for the branch mentioned above: bug 1499086 |
| 12:50 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1499086 in Evergreen "Slowness/timeout on loading bookbags in OPAC" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1499086 |
| 12:57 |
Dyrcona |
Not seeing how I can force the join order with JSON queries, I'm going to try gmcharlt's squashed version of jeffdavis's branch. |
| 13:09 |
dbwells |
Dyrcona: Just curious, did you try bumping up the join_collapse_limit? |
| 13:09 |
Dyrcona |
No. I didn't. |
| 13:11 |
Dyrcona |
Trouble is. I don't have a comparable db to production to test with. My testing systems always seem slow. |
| 13:11 |
dbwells |
Ultimately that's all we did to work around it when bug 1527731 bit us. Not sure what our overall penalty spread for doing that has been, but things are fast enough. |
| 13:11 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1527731 in OpenSRF "Query for OPAC copies can be extremely slow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527731 |
| 13:12 |
Dyrcona |
dbwells: What, exactly, did you set? |
| 13:13 |
* Dyrcona |
loves getting to stack overflow posts that say... Read this link... I click link, 404 or dns failure. :) |
| 13:15 |
dbwells |
Dyrcona: Yeah, that bug report is a little dense. We set 'join_collapse_limit' in the PG configuration to 9 or 10 (from the default of 8), as mentioned in "Solution #1". Doing so has clear drawbacks (as also mentioned), but like I said, I don't really know the scale of the penalty. |
| 13:18 |
dbwells |
Just double-checked, we just have ours at 9. It was targeted to that one case, since it has 9 joins, so not really a broad solution. |
| 13:18 |
dbwells |
But at least makes the edge cases a little smaller :) |
| 13:19 |
dbwells |
Plus, I haven't followed closely whether your issue is intermittent or constant, so maybe it doesn't really apply. |
| 13:20 |
Dyrcona |
dbwells: It seems constant. |
| 13:20 |
Dyrcona |
Or, at least, constant enough. :) |
| 13:22 |
Dyrcona |
I'll try join_collapse_limit on my test db and see if it affects the plan on the slow version of the query. |
| 13:24 |
* dbwells |
tries to read up a bit more |
| 13:25 |
Dyrcona |
I can just "set join_collapse_limit = 9;" right? |
| 13:26 |
dbwells |
I think so. |
| 13:27 |
kmlussier |
mmorgan++ #She knows why. |
| 13:29 |
csharp |
@marc 003 |
| 13:29 |
pinesol_green |
csharp: The MARC code for the organization whose control number is contained in field 001 (Control Number). [] |
| 13:29 |
Dyrcona |
It works, but the setting doesn't stick around if I just do the set like that. |
| 13:29 |
Dyrcona |
It seems to only affect the current connection. |
| 13:30 |
dbwells |
Dyrcona: yes, that's true |
| 13:30 |
dbwells |
Sorry if I misunderstood. |
| 13:30 |
Dyrcona |
I'll have to change the config and reload to make it permanent, it looks like. |
| 13:30 |
Dyrcona |
dbwells: No problem. :) |
| 13:31 |
Dyrcona |
Just stating what I see for the logs, etc. |
| 13:34 |
Dyrcona |
dbwells++ |
| 13:35 |
dbwells |
Another interesting technique I learned recently is using join_collapse_limit = 1 to force the plan to execute the joins in the order given. Doesn't help when the root problem is not being able to control the requested join order at all, but could still come in handy. |
| 13:35 |
Dyrcona |
So, making that change on my test db server dropped the execution time of my "bad" query from 40-41 seconds to 13 milliseconds. |
| 13:35 |
Dyrcona |
dbwells: Yes, I saw that in the docs and in a stackoverflow question. |
| 13:36 |
Dyrcona |
And a mailing list post maybe.... |
| 13:36 |
dbwells |
Yeah, Erwin Brandstetter? Gotta love that guy :) |
| 13:36 |
Dyrcona |
heh |
| 13:37 |
dbwells |
Don't know how he can answer so many Stack Overflow PG questions with those squinty eyes, though... |
| 13:40 |
* kmlussier |
now feels compelled to Google Erwin Brandstetter |
| 13:41 |
kmlussier |
His eyes are indeed very squinty. |
| 13:43 |
dbwells |
:D I certainly mean no disrespect, the guy is a hero in my book. |
| 13:52 |
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| 13:53 |
csharp |
so as my comment on bug 1724321 says, if (after setting cat.bib.use_id_for_tcn = false) I search z39.50, select a record with an already existing TCN, then click Import, I get blocked from importing (but bug 1724885 keeps me from knowing that until I view the logs) |
| 13:53 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1724321 in Evergreen "Web Client -- existence of record with duplicate TCN does not prevent import" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724321 |
| 13:53 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1724885 in Evergreen "web client: z39.50 import button does nothing when TCN already exists" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724885 |
| 13:54 |
csharp |
but if I click "Edit then Import" it takes me to a generic MARC editor that doesn't know that I care about duplicated TCNs |
| 13:54 |
csharp |
i.e., it's no longer an "import" but a "save what I have here as a new record" |
| 13:54 |
csharp |
even though the label says "Import" |
| 13:55 |
csharp |
<button class="btn btn-primary" ng-click="saveRecord()">{{ saveLabel || "[% l('Save') %]"}}</button> |
| 13:56 |
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| 13:57 |
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| 13:57 |
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| 13:58 |
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| 13:58 |
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| 13:58 |
tspindler |
EOB meeting will start in a few minutes |
| 14:01 |
tspindler |
#startmeeting 2017-10-19 - Evergreen Oversight Board Meeting |
| 14:01 |
pinesol_green |
Meeting started Thu Oct 19 14:01:01 2017 US/Eastern. The chair is tspindler. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:01 |
pinesol_green |
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. |
| 14:01 |
pinesol_green |
The meeting name has been set to '2017_10_19___evergreen_oversight_board_meeting' |
| 14:01 |
tspindler |
#topic roll call |
| 14:01 |
tspindler |
Use the #info command stating name and affiliation |
| 14:01 |
tspindler |
#info tspinder from C/W MARS |
| 14:01 |
rfrasur |
#info rfrasur is Ruth Frasur, Hagerstown Library, Evergreen Indiana |
| 14:01 |
collum |
#info collum is Garry Collum, Kenton County Public Library |
| 14:01 |
rgagnon |
#info rgagnon is Ron Gagnon, North Of Boston Library Exchange (NOBLE) |
| 14:01 |
ScottThomas |
#info scottthomas is Scott Thomas from PaILS |
| 14:01 |
hbrennan |
#info hbrennan is Holly Brennan, Homer Public Library, AK |
| 14:01 |
terran |
#info terran is Terran McCanna, PINES |
| 14:02 |
sherbertbc |
#info sherbertbc is Sharon Herbert, Sitka/BCLC |
| 14:02 |
gmcharlt |
#info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, Equinox, 3.0 release manager and observer |
| 14:03 |
tspindler |
#info Agenda |
| 14:03 |
tspindler |
#link https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=governance:minutes:2017-10-19 |
| 14:03 |
tspindler |
#minutes of September 21, 2017 |
| 14:03 |
tspindler |
#link http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2017/evergreen.2017-09-21-14.01.html |
| 14:03 |
tspindler |
Any corrections or comments on the minutes? |
| 14:04 |
rfrasur |
not from me |
| 14:04 |
tspindler |
Is there a motion to accept the minutes? |
| 14:04 |
rgagnon |
#info Move to approve September minutes |
| 14:04 |
terran |
#info Second |
| 14:05 |
tspindler |
#startvote Approve minutes of 9-21-17? Yes, No, Abstain |
| 14:05 |
pinesol_green |
Begin voting on: Approve minutes of 9-21-17? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain. |
| 14:05 |
pinesol_green |
Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. |
| 14:05 |
tspindler |
#vote Yes |
| 14:05 |
hbrennan |
#vote Yes |
| 14:05 |
rgagnon |
#vote Yes |
| 14:05 |
collum |
#vote yes |
| 14:05 |
ScottThomas |
#vote Yes |
| 14:05 |
terran |
#vote Yes |
| 14:05 |
sherbertbc |
#vote Yes |
| 14:05 |
rfrasur |
#vote yes |
| 14:05 |
tspindler |
#endvote |
| 14:05 |
pinesol_green |
Voted on "Approve minutes of 9-21-17?" Results are |
| 14:05 |
pinesol_green |
Yes (8): tspindler, rgagnon, collum, rfrasur, ScottThomas, terran, hbrennan, sherbertbc |
| 14:06 |
tspindler |
#topic Report of the Chair |
| 14:06 |
tspindler |
#info It Takes a Village: Open Source Forum |
| 14:07 |
tspindler |
The following is my initial report I sent out and Galen asked me about putting something on the Evergreen Blog so we will be doing that. |
| 14:07 |
tspindler |
#link http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2017-October/001880.html |
| 14:07 |
tspindler |
Overall, I thought it was a good experience. |
| 14:07 |
terran |
I'm glad you went |
| 14:08 |
tspindler |
It was interesting the variety of ways different projects are managed. |
| 14:08 |
tspindler |
Does anyone have any questions or comments about the forum? |
| 14:09 |
tspindler |
The forum also got me thinking about Evergreen of course and what we do well and maybe some things we don't do so well. |
| 14:09 |
rgagnon |
tspindler: +1 |
| 14:10 |
tspindler |
I talked to kmlussier a little about this the other day but I think we should provide an opportunity at the conference to discuss ways to think strategically about Evergreens direction. |
| 14:10 |
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| 14:11 |
tspindler |
My understanding is there have been some of this in the past but I was thinking it would be good to carve out time at the conference every year. |
| 14:11 |
ScottThomas |
I think this is a good idea. Also, a lot of the people at the conference may not even know how Evergreen is managed. |
| 14:12 |
kmlussier |
Yes, we did something similar at the Camrbidge conference where we used space at Google to discuss strategic directions for the project. It was scheduled a day before the hack-a-way. |
| 14:12 |
tspindler |
It would have to involve a variety of stake holders |
| 14:12 |
hbrennan |
I'll admit that I knew close to nothing about the management side until my first EOB mtg |
| 14:12 |
ScottThomas |
Same here. |
| 14:13 |
terran |
I think it's a good idea to make it a standing session each year. |
| 14:13 |
tspindler |
If the board is ok I'll ask the program committee about this. |
| 14:13 |
tspindler |
terran +1 |
| 14:13 |
terran |
I'm on the program committee and I'll vote yes :D |
| 14:13 |
collum |
Me too. |
| 14:13 |
ScottThomas |
I think it is a really good idea. |
| 14:13 |
rgagnon |
I agree |
| 14:13 |
* rfrasur |
agrees |
| 14:14 |
terran |
The last few years have been so focused on getting the web client ready to use, it's been difficult to think about anything beyond that. |
| 14:14 |
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| 14:14 |
tspindler |
#action tspindler will discuss with the conference program committee about a standing program on Evergreen direction |
| 14:15 |
tspindler |
If anyone has any thoughts on how it should be structured, just send me an email. |
| 14:15 |
ScottThomas |
I also think we need to have an Evergreen Organization Basics type of session. |
| 14:15 |
tspindler |
what would that encompass? |
| 14:16 |
terran |
Perhaps build time into the beginning of the EOB meeting to do an overview? |
| 14:16 |
ScottThomas |
How open source projects are managed and how Evergreen itself is managed? What is its history? Who and what is the EOB? What is its role? |
| 14:17 |
tspindler |
terran: do you mean to do this as part of an orientation for new board members? |
| 14:17 |
ScottThomas |
How does open source management differ from how propietrary software is managed? |
| 14:18 |
rgagnon |
And that there's no "them/they" ("When are they going to....") but only "us/we" for the general session. |
| 14:18 |
ScottThomas |
I think a lot of attendees in general would like a basic intro. I would have jumped at it my first year. |
| 14:18 |
terran |
tspindler: both that and for anyone else who shows up out of curiosity. I attended a couple of EOB meetings before I ever joined the board and it would have been helpful to me |
| 14:18 |
tspindler |
#info suggestion to have a regular session at the annual conference on Evergreen Organization Basics to cover how how Evergreen is managed and how it differs from proprietary systems among other things |
| 14:19 |
* kmlussier |
thinks this sounds similar to the Intro to the Community program we've done in previous years. |
| 14:19 |
ScottThomas |
Yes and I am willing to submit a proposal to the program committee. |
| 14:19 |
terran |
Yes, it could cover a lot of the same ground |
| 14:20 |
tspindler |
#action: tspindler will include on the conference EOB meeting an orientation component about the history of Evergreen and how it is managed |
| 14:22 |
tspindler |
kmlussier: I can't remember but is the intro to the community done every year, I thought it was but I'm not sure |
| 14:22 |
terran |
I believe it's only been done when someone submits it as a proposal |
| 14:22 |
kmlussier |
tspindler: I don't recall seeing it last year, but I think it happened the previous three years. |
| 14:23 |
collum |
I don't believe there was one last year. |
| 14:23 |
kmlussier |
Yes, what terran said. It relies on somebody submitting a proposal. |
| 14:23 |
ScottThomas |
I'll submit a proposal. |
| 14:23 |
terran |
If we make it a standing session, we can just have it led by the EOB chair each year |
| 14:23 |
tspindler |
I think it would be a good idea to have it as a standing session |
| 14:24 |
kmlussier |
It's nice to get a few panelists to help with that one, who can cover different parts of the community. |
| 14:24 |
tspindler |
Could there be one standing session on the the intro and direction discussion? |
| 14:24 |
terran |
Agreed on panelists, but if we have a designated person leading it, then it could be understood that that person has to do the panelist herding (terran loves volunteering other people to do things) |
| 14:25 |
collum |
terran++ |
| 14:25 |
tspindler |
terran: I could see that as a standing duty of the EOB Chair |
| 14:25 |
rgagnon |
Would the intro and direction each appeal to different audiences -- newbies vs. established? |
| 14:25 |
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| 14:26 |
ScottThomas |
Yes. I think so. |
| 14:26 |
tspindler |
rgagnon: i could see it being different audiences |
| 14:26 |
terran |
There would be some overlap - especially from libraries who aren't on Evergreen and considering it as an option |
| 14:27 |
terran |
Maybe two back to back sessions? |
| 14:27 |
collum |
I agree |
| 14:27 |
kmlussier |
I'm just going to throw my two cents in as a non-Board member, but I think the strategic direction discussion would work better as something outside the normal program block. Something that allows for more time. |
| 14:28 |
kmlussier |
I'm not sure if that's really doable for this year since the space is already reserved, but something to think about for the future. |
| 14:28 |
gmcharlt |
allows for more time - and broader participation; i.e., I'd suggest it would be worth ensuring there were no competing programs |
| 14:29 |
tspindler |
ScottThomas: I'm assuming you will talk about a program to the committee and I can at least talk to them about a strategic direction discussion to find out what is and isn't possible |
| 14:31 |
tspindler |
#action tspindler will talk to the conference committee/program committee about the possibilities of a slot or location for a strategic discussion |
| 14:31 |
tspindler |
#topic Financial report |
| 14:31 |
tspindler |
#link https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=governance:financials:update_2017_09_21 |
| 14:32 |
tspindler |
Are there any questions? gmcharlt send something out a little while ago on this. |
| 14:33 |
tspindler |
#topic SFC Updates |
| 14:33 |
tspindler |
I don't think Amy is online. I don't have any information. |
| 14:34 |
tspindler |
#topic Release Manager |
| 14:34 |
tspindler |
I don't know if gmcharlt has any comments about 3.0 and the developers are soliciting volunteers for 3.1 |
| 14:35 |
tspindler |
#info Developers are soliciting nominations for a release manager |
| 14:35 |
gmcharlt |
yep, that's the substance of what I was planning to say |
| 14:35 |
rfrasur |
I know that one person, at least, has submitted themselves as a nomination. |
| 14:36 |
tspindler |
#topic SFC Membership Review (Sharon Herbert, Scott Thomas and Tim Spindler) |
| 14:36 |
tspindler |
before we get into the review of the two organizations. |
| 14:37 |
tspindler |
#info tspindler will be talking to Michael Winkler of the Open Library Foundation on Monday, October 23 |
| 14:37 |
tspindler |
#link http://www.openlibraryfoundation.org/ |
| 14:38 |
tspindler |
I talked to someone connected with the Kuali Ole and now the Folio project at the "It Takes a Village forum". They have formed a new organizaton, the Open Library Foundation. |
| 14:38 |
tspindler |
The intent of this organization is to serve as an umbrella organization for open source/open access projects in libraries. |
| 14:39 |
tspindler |
Currently, they only have the Folio project but are negotiating with VuFind. My goal will be to find out what services they could provide for Evergreen. |
| 14:39 |
tspindler |
They are a separate non-profit at this time. |
| 14:39 |
kmlussier |
tspindler: I notice they specifically mention the Apache license on their about page http://www.openlibraryfoundation.org/about/ |
| 14:39 |
terran |
If I remember correctly, Kuali got restarted from scratch a year or so in, and then was finally scrapped last year - is that correct? |
| 14:40 |
kmlussier |
Does it sound like they're open to other licenses? |
| 14:40 |
sherbertbc_ |
kuali ole was about 8 years in the making before scrapping |
| 14:41 |
tspindler |
kmlussier: yes i noticed that but my impression is they are open to us managing the project in our own way. I think their goal is to provide resources for projects and have a very hands off approach. |
| 14:42 |
sherbertbc_ |
would be interested to know if they envision hiring any staff over time, as they are new and volunteer |
| 14:43 |
tspindler |
Kuali Ole fell apart for a variety of reasons. One reason is that Kauli Foundation was a non-profit that changed over to a for-profit organization. |
| 14:44 |
tspindler |
sherbertbc_: they are very new and I'm not sure how many services they can actually provide |
| 14:45 |
tspindler |
Moving on to the work we have been doing. |
| 14:45 |
sherbertbc_ |
Agreed, I think definitely good to chat with them anyway |
| 14:45 |
tspindler |
Last month the board asked for some further cost anlaysis in comparing the two organizations we have been reviewing. |
| 14:46 |
tspindler |
Amy has not provided me with any consts associated with leaving the SFC but my impression is the costs would be negligable but I'm not 100% certain |
| 14:46 |
tspindler |
#info Organization 1 would be less expensive than Organization 2 (approximately half the cost; however if we form our own non-profit the costs rise to a cost similar to organization 2) |
| 14:47 |
terran |
tspindler: do you have the link to the organization comparison chart handy? |
| 14:49 |
tspindler |
#link https://docs.google.com/a/cwmars.org/spreadsheets/d/1qGa72lPCmWKlkCrjj-hDunDHqho773P9p8WshhqjeDY/edit?usp=sharing |
| 14:49 |
terran |
Thank you! |
| 14:50 |
tspindler |
Both organizations offer pricing based on hourly usage. One would cap the total at 10% of total revenues so it would never exceed what we pay to the SFC. The other organization would be willing to negotiate a flat annual fee. |
| 14:50 |
tspindler |
It is likely both organizations would be cheaper than the SFC. |
| 14:51 |
tspindler |
sherbertbc_ and ScottThomas do you have any other comments |
| 14:51 |
sherbertbc_ |
nothing to add |
| 14:51 |
ScottThomas |
Nicely done. |
| 14:52 |
sherbertbc_ |
Thanks to tspindler for doing the heavy lifting |
| 14:52 |
ScottThomas |
tspindler++ |
| 14:52 |
terran |
tspindler++ |
| 14:52 |
tspindler |
One of our options could be move over to one of these organizations and then revisit creating a non-profit or moving to the Open Library Foundation at a futuer date |
| 14:52 |
collum |
tspindler++ sherbertbc_++ ScottThomas++ |
| 14:53 |
terran |
sherbertbc_++ ScottThomas++ |
| 14:53 |
ScottThomas |
This sounds like a good plan since creating a 501c3 takes a bit of time. |
| 14:53 |
terran |
Agreed |
| 14:54 |
tspindler |
If we are to make the switch, we need something in place before conference contracts are signed for 2019 |
| 14:54 |
terran |
Question - I see that Org 1 said financials are available upon request. Were they requested and reviewed? |
| 14:55 |
tspindler |
We have not requested the financials. |
| 14:55 |
tspindler |
Would the board be prepared to make a final decision in November? |
| 14:55 |
terran |
I would like to know if there are any red flags with the financials for either of them. |
| 14:56 |
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| 14:56 |
tspindler |
We could request those and report back in November? |
| 14:56 |
terran |
Works for me |
| 14:56 |
rfrasur |
me too |
| 14:56 |
rgagnon |
Sounds good |
| 14:57 |
sherbertbc |
tspindler: sorry, my connection dropped, what are we requesting? |
| 14:57 |
tspindler |
Financials |
| 14:57 |
sherbertbc |
+1 |
| 14:57 |
collum |
+1 |
| 14:57 |
tspindler |
Once we report back, would everyone be prepared to make a decision or should we gather other information? |
| 14:57 |
sherbertbc |
also, not sure if already answered: what's eta for 2019 conference signing? |
| 14:58 |
tspindler |
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I would guess June or July of 2018? |
| 14:58 |
kmlussier |
A lot of it depends on when you put out a call for proposals for hosting the 2019 conference. |
| 14:59 |
ScottThomas |
Why are we not revealing the names of the two organizations? |
| 14:59 |
tspindler |
kmlussier: has the board handled those calls? |
| 14:59 |
rfrasur |
I think, Scott, because some of us might have unintended bias. |
| 15:00 |
tspindler |
rfrasur: exactly |
| 15:00 |
kmlussier |
tspindler: The Board usually kicks off the process. There is a site selection committee that usually handles the details. |
| 15:00 |
tspindler |
kmlussier: I'll follow up off line then. |
| 15:01 |
kmlussier |
Traditionally, it's timed so that contracts are signed around June / July, but I think it was earlier with Vancouver because the call went out a lot earlier. |
| 15:01 |
tspindler |
We are at 3pm an hour into the meeeting |
| 15:01 |
ScottThomas |
I understand about the unintended bias. |
| 15:01 |
tspindler |
Can we extend for 5 minutes? I know kmlussier has a vote she needs |
| 15:02 |
sherbertbc |
+1 |
| 15:02 |
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| 15:02 |
tspindler |
#action SFC Review task force will solicit financials from organizations |
| 15:02 |
rfrasur |
I'm going to need to leave. |
| 15:02 |
rgagnon |
+1 |
| 15:02 |
ScottThomas |
+1 |
| 15:02 |
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| 15:02 |
tspindler |
#topic Outreach Committee (Kathy Lussier) |
| 15:03 |
terran |
I understand about the bias, especially during the initial review. But I am also not comfortable voting between two companies without knowing who they are. |
| 15:03 |
collum |
Yes. The only thing that I have to report for the Conference Committee is that the Call for Program Proposals page is live. Get those proposals in. |
| 15:04 |
tspindler |
#info 2018 conference call for programs is live |
| 15:04 |
tspindler |
I think the Outreach Committee is looking for up to $300 to refresh the logo |
| 15:04 |
kmlussier |
I have nothing to add to what was in the e-mail. |
| 15:04 |
hbrennan |
Apologies from me as well for being quite silent this mtg. I upgraded to 3.0 yesterday and I'm scrambling to pick up the bits and pieces today. And now I'm working the circ desk. |
| 15:05 |
ScottThomas |
I move we approve $300 to refresh logo |
| 15:05 |
terran |
I second. |
| 15:05 |
tspindler |
#info ScottThomas moves to approve the $300 and terran seconds |
| 15:06 |
tspindler |
#startvote Approve the Outreach Committee spending up to $300 to refresh the logo? Yes, No, Abstain |
| 15:06 |
pinesol_green |
Begin voting on: Approve the Outreach Committee spending up to $300 to refresh the logo? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain. |
| 15:06 |
pinesol_green |
Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. |
| 15:06 |
terran |
#vote Yes |
| 15:06 |
collum |
#vote Yes |
| 15:06 |
tspindler |
#vote Yes |
| 15:06 |
rgagnon |
#vote Yes |
| 15:06 |
sherbertbc |
#vote Yes |
| 15:06 |
ScottThomas |
#vote Yes |
| 15:07 |
tspindler |
#endvote |
| 15:07 |
pinesol_green |
Voted on "Approve the Outreach Committee spending up to $300 to refresh the logo?" Results are |
| 15:07 |
pinesol_green |
Yes (6): tspindler, rgagnon, collum, ScottThomas, terran, sherbertbc |
| 15:07 |
hbrennan |
#vote YES |
| 15:07 |
hbrennan |
dang |
| 15:07 |
hbrennan |
:) |
| 15:07 |
kmlussier |
hbrennan: Well, we'll see it in the logs! :) |
| 15:07 |
kmlussier |
Thanks everyone! |
| 15:07 |
sherbertbc |
hbrennan: too slow ;) |
| 15:08 |
terran |
hbrennan: I think you have a good excuse to be distracted today! |
| 15:08 |
hbrennan |
sherbertbc: You should see how fast I'm moving in real life! |
| 15:08 |
tspindler |
terran: I didn't want to ignore you comment about the vote next week and the organization names. I think we can discuss it at the next meeting before we vote |
| 15:08 |
sherbertbc |
hbrennan++ |
| 15:08 |
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| 15:08 |
hbrennan |
Yesterday was Alaska Day so we were closed. Extra busy today :) |
| 15:08 |
terran |
tspindler: That works for me. Reviewing the financials before knowing the names also works for me. |
| 15:09 |
tspindler |
I don't have any other agenda items. Do we have a motion to adjourn? |
| 15:09 |
ScottThomas |
So moved |
| 15:09 |
tspindler |
thanks all |
| 15:09 |
sherbertbc |
tspindler++ |
| 15:09 |
tspindler |
#endmeeting |
| 15:09 |
pinesol_green |
Meeting ended Thu Oct 19 15:09:48 2017 US/Eastern. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 15:09 |
pinesol_green |
Minutes: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2017/evergreen.2017-10-19-14.01.html |
| 15:09 |
pinesol_green |
Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2017/evergreen.2017-10-19-14.01.txt |
| 15:09 |
pinesol_green |
Log: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2017/evergreen.2017-10-19-14.01.log.html |
| 15:09 |
collum |
tspindler++ |
| 15:09 |
rgagnon |
tspindler++ |
| 15:09 |
kmlussier |
tspindler++ |
| 15:10 |
terran |
Thanks everyone! tspindler++ |
| 15:10 |
ScottThomas |
tspindler++ |
| 15:11 |
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| 15:19 |
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| 15:20 |
Dyrcona |
OMG.....Looking through logs can be scary. You sometimes find things unrelated to what you're looking for that you wish you hadn't. |
| 15:21 |
Dyrcona |
Like staff adding what should be a note/alert to a patron's default hold notification phone number. |
| 15:22 |
tspindler |
Dyrcona: it is fascinating the way some staff use patron fields...let us say creatively |
| 15:23 |
Dyrcona |
"Fascinating" in the sense that Spock used the word. :) |
| 15:23 |
tspindler |
Yes |
| 15:23 |
rhamby |
Dyrcona: there's a lovecraftian joke to make in there somewhere as in "don't read the logs" instead of "don't read the book" |
| 15:24 |
Dyrcona |
rhamby++ |
| 15:24 |
Dyrcona |
And, it doesn't help that messages seem to be missing. |
| 15:25 |
Dyrcona |
I can find an authtoken, but no sign of the auth transactions when they logged in, so I can't easily tell who it was. |
| 15:25 |
Dyrcona |
I'm chasing down an issue with a library failing to update copy templates that I believe is the result of a bundling/chunking bug. |
| 15:27 |
dbwells |
Well, auth service data is generally redacted, though there is still usually ways to piece things together. |
| 15:27 |
Dyrcona |
I'm mainly concerned about the work ou. |
| 15:27 |
Dyrcona |
I did the open-ils.auth open-ils.auth.session.delete at 2:33, but that's not very helpful. |
| 15:28 |
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| 15:28 |
Dyrcona |
Based on other messages in the logs, they logged in around 14:20. |
| 15:29 |
Dyrcona |
Whole buncha these: open-ils.auth.session.retrieve |
| 15:30 |
Dyrcona |
rsyslog stinks.... |
| 15:34 |
Dyrcona |
They logged in on brick3 and I found it in brick 3's logs. |
| 15:34 |
Dyrcona |
Brick 3 is logging to the syslog server, but I guess messages get dropped. |
| 15:40 |
Dyrcona |
The upshot is that I'm pretty sure there are still bundling/chunking bugs with one of the gateways, but I'm not sure which one, yet. |
| 15:40 |
Dyrcona |
Looks like sending too much data to the server in a single message is a problem. |
| 15:41 |
Dyrcona |
osrf_json_gw |
| 15:42 |
Dyrcona |
2017-10-19 12:29:14 bh1 osrf_json_gw: [WARN:17430:transport_session.c:869:15084303931743017] Text of error message received from Jabber: XML stanza is too big |
| 15:51 |
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| 16:08 |
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| 16:16 |
Bmagic |
Whats up with the reporting engine adding "is null or" onto the query where I plainly specify that I want active=false on actor.usr? |
| 16:24 |
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| 16:26 |
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| 16:38 |
kmlussier |
@dessert [someone] |
| 16:38 |
kmlussier |
Do I have a leading space again? |
| 16:38 |
kmlussier |
@dessert [someone] |
| 16:38 |
* pinesol_green |
grabs some Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream for jihpringle |
| 16:38 |
berick |
Bmagic: IIRC there's a null check toggle for that somewhere in the UI. |
| 16:39 |
berick |
yeah, "Nullability" |
| 16:39 |
Bmagic |
berick: I don't have it checked, but I think I figured it out. It was apples and oranges. Thought it was filtering on active but it was actor.card.isactive |
| 16:39 |
jihpringle |
yum, thanks kmlussier |
| 16:39 |
mmorgan |
@decide nullability or Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream |
| 16:39 |
pinesol_green |
mmorgan: go with Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream |
| 16:39 |
mmorgan |
That's what I was thinking. |
| 16:40 |
kmlussier |
pinesol_green: Good choice! |
| 16:40 |
berick |
Bmagic: *nod* |
| 16:40 |
pinesol_green |
kmlussier: Thank you kmlussier! But our princess is in another castle! |
| 16:40 |
jeffdavis |
Does the princess have the ice cream? |
| 16:40 |
kmlussier |
heh |
| 16:42 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Dan Wells] Forward-port 3.0.1 upgrade script - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=9cf4d05> |
| 16:55 |
kmlussier |
My cat has gotten in the habit of climbing on my keyboard right around 5 p.m. It's as if he can tell time and knows that I should stop working. |
| 16:56 |
mmorgan |
I'll bet his stomach can tell time. |
| 16:56 |
mmorgan |
That's true in my house. |
| 16:57 |
Bmagic |
This is something new to me "MERGED_USER_IN_COLLECTIONS" - Searching the code it's an error that you receive when merging two patrons AND one of those appear in the money.collections_tracker table! Never seen this table!? What is the resolution? Select the opposite account as the winner? |
| 17:01 |
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| 17:03 |
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| 17:25 |
kmlussier |
Bmagic: Unfortunately, I know very little about collections. |
| 17:26 |
Bmagic |
kmlussier: no problem, I think I just wanted to bounce it around here. I decided to say that "there isn't a way to merge them" - first you have to remove the patron from collections |
| 17:49 |
bshum |
dbwells++ # behind the scenes i18n detective work |
| 18:01 |
pinesol_green |
News from qatests: Test Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live> |
| 18:44 |
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| 19:21 |
csharp |
Dyrcona: check auditor.actor_usr_history for the audit_usr for the weird patron edit |
| 19:22 |
Dyrcona |
csharp: I think that was meant for Bmagic. |
| 19:22 |
csharp |
Dyrcona: I was responding to your field-abusing staff member you saw in the logs :-) |
| 19:23 |
Dyrcona |
Oh! :) |
| 19:23 |
Dyrcona |
I'm fixing max_stanza_size at the moment...one brick at a time, then cookie dough ice cream. :) |
| 19:23 |
csharp |
heh |
| 19:26 |
csharp |
Bmagic: the report query builder adds IS NULL OR onto any query that filters on a source that left joins by default ("might_have" in the fieldmapper, iirc) |
| 19:28 |
csharp |
Bmagic: re: MERGED_USER_IN_COLLECTIONS yeah, the collections user (which is determined by having a penalty attached to the account) has to be the lead account in the merge, and we also just bounce it back to the libraries for resolution before merging |
| 19:29 |
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| 19:29 |
csharp |
Dyrcona: I also suspect another chunking bug - we're still having problems with z39.50 imports after upgrading opensrf to 2.5.2 |
| 19:30 |
Dyrcona |
csharp: We don't import much with z39.50, so I have no reports of that. |
| 19:31 |
Dyrcona |
I plain to open a Lp bug tomorrow with all the log messages I can find related to the one I shared earlier. |
| 19:31 |
Dyrcona |
I'll look for other instances of XML stanza is too big while I'm at it. |
| 20:51 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Galen Charlton] forward-port 2.12.7 upgrade script - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=871e6d8> |
| 21:01 |
gmcharlt |
https://evergreen-ils.org/evergreen-2-12-7-and-3-0-1-released/ |
