| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 05:02 |
pinesol_green |
News from qatests: Test Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live> |
| 06:41 |
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rlefaive joined #evergreen |
| 06:45 |
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| 07:15 |
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| 09:13 |
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| 09:25 |
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dteston joined #evergreen |
| 09:26 |
dteston |
When a user's password is added/updated, does it get hashed on the client side? Or is it transmitted as plaintext to the server, then hashed? |
| 09:30 |
Bmagic |
dteston: I believe it's transmitted over SSL, then hashed on the server side. But, I am not absolutely positive. |
| 09:33 |
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maryj joined #evergreen |
| 09:34 |
tsbere |
Bmagic: I believe you are generally correct, though I think there may be ways to use the API to skip the SSL part. No stock part of Evergreen does, though. |
| 09:39 |
dteston |
Bmagic: tsbere: so there would be a way to see the password on the server side in plaintext before it gets hashed? |
| 09:40 |
tsbere |
dteston: Well, most (all?) of the places it is logged redact these days so it won't be in the logs. But if you wanted to capture it beforehand that is possible. |
| 09:41 |
tsbere |
dteston: In fact, thinking about it, I believe the actual *hashing* is done at the *database* level, so it has to get through in plaintext all the way to the database... |
| 09:44 |
dteston |
tsbere: that's excellent for what I'm looking to do. How do I see it, and see which user it's tied to? |
| 09:45 |
tsbere |
dteston: I have no idea what you are looking to do, so I don't know what to tell you. |
| 09:53 |
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collum joined #evergreen |
| 09:56 |
dteston |
tsbere: I want to copy the plaintext password to a different server then NTLM hash it there. |
| 09:57 |
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kmlussier joined #evergreen |
| 09:57 |
tsbere |
dteston: I believe there are ways to use an outside source for logins, so you may be able to reverse that and use the outside server to authenticate people. |
| 09:57 |
* tsbere |
has never done so and thus has no experience with that part of the system and honestly has little idea of what it is actually capable of, but knows it is there |
| 10:03 |
dteston |
tsbere: that would be great to reverse it. To give more background, I'm building a RADIUS server that will use EG credentials/flags to control access to the wifi network. For RADIUS to work with any Mac/PC/Linux/Android/iOS device, the passwords have to be in plaintext or NTLM. |
| 10:03 |
tsbere |
That.....sounds more annoying. |
| 10:04 |
tsbere |
dteston: The last time I tried something like that and considered pointing it at Evergreen I was actually going to use Evergreen calls to authenticate people with the plaintext password the RADIUS software handed my code. I dunno if your planned software can do that. |
| 10:05 |
kmlussier |
gmcharlt / miker: Are there any point releases going out this week? I'm wondering if I should pull together a small set of release notes. |
| 10:07 |
dteston |
tsbere: So the options are: copy the plaintext password so each server can hash it differently; or query EG for the password (returned in plaintext) to compare with user input. The software can accept the user's input as plaintext, but is there a security risk? |
| 10:07 |
gmcharlt |
kmlussier: hmm, upon looking at the applied patches, I'm inclined not to cut releases today, although I might do so next week once some other bugfixes I'm working on are ready |
| 10:08 |
kmlussier |
gmcharlt: OK, do you want me to start the release notes with what's there now and then let you complete them whenever you cut the release? |
| 10:08 |
* kmlussier |
won't be around after today. |
| 10:09 |
gmcharlt |
kmlussier: that would be helpful, thanks |
| 10:09 |
tsbere |
dteston: From my POV, either way you are looking at a security risk. My best solution (not implemented, but idea) to date has been "set up a captive portal system that lets TPAC handle login and passing of the correct information back to let them in" but that requires your captive portal to support it. |
| 10:09 |
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Dyrcona joined #evergreen |
| 10:19 |
dteston |
tsbere: You're right - the most secure option will just be the lesser of 2 evils. I'd love to use a captive portal that way. Does captive portal allow for session tracking and statistics? |
| 10:22 |
tsbere |
dteston: Generally yes. In practice it will vary on the service you use to implement it. |
| 10:23 |
tsbere |
dteston: For example, the access points we have at the office here can do a captive portal with basic statistics, and I was once looking at a "plays router for the wifi" solution that was able to do a lot more. |
| 10:29 |
dteston |
That would be great to pull stats off of captive portal. Do you remember the name of that solution? |
| 10:29 |
Dyrcona |
csharp: Are you working on Lp 978095 and Lp 1257915 ? |
| 10:29 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 978095 in Evergreen master "Acq: lineitems display as "on order" even after all copies have been cancelled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978095 - Assigned to Chris Sharp (chrissharp123) |
| 10:29 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1257915 in Evergreen "Acq: purchase orders stay "on-order" with some lineitems received and the rest canceled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1257915 - Assigned to Chris Sharp (chrissharp123) |
| 10:30 |
tsbere |
dteston: I don't fully recall. I know it was open source, and there were several options on that front. Perhaps you should do some research to see if any solutions look good to you? ;) |
| 10:36 |
dteston |
tsbere: After hours and hours researching it, captive portal just didn't seem to cut it, as most solutions indicated that you couldn't pull advanced stats. That's what led me down the RADIUS route. I might just have to go with the "copy to RADIUS server then hash" idea... not a great one, but it might be the best ( /least-bad). Thanks for all of your help on this |
| 10:40 |
dteston |
[Unrelated to my previous question] where does EG store the notification logs for emailing patrons? |
| 10:45 |
jeff |
if you find yourself considering a captive portal, the first question you should ask is, "Why do I hate my patrons?" :P |
| 10:45 |
dteston |
jeff: Lol, why is that? |
| 10:47 |
Dyrcona |
'Cause captive portals are a pain for the users. |
| 10:50 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: On your email question: There are 18 events (in 2.10.7) that can send an email to a patron. To see the results of the Evergreen processing of the events, look at action_trigger.event in the database. |
| 10:50 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: To see what happened to emails on your mail server, check your mail server logs. |
| 10:50 |
tsbere |
Dyrcona: Personally I prefer captive portal to trying to get users to work with radius. Especially as a lot of devices likely *won't* work with radius... |
| 10:51 |
Dyrcona |
I prefer open wifi in public places. :) |
| 10:51 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: thinking of Starbucks wifi (just as a quick example), I've not really had any problems. It's easy for short-term connections and is faster/easier to login. |
| 10:51 |
Dyrcona |
But, I'm a known lunatic. |
| 10:51 |
tsbere |
I prefer there to at least be a key. WEP even. If only because then, in theory, people are actually *there*. ;) |
| 10:51 |
* Dyrcona |
doesn't usually use unknown access points anyway, trusting his cell provider slightly more. |
| 10:52 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: Did you seem my responses about email, above? |
| 10:53 |
Dyrcona |
You can get a list of the relevant events and ids with a query like this: select id, name from action_trigger.event_definition where name ~* 'email'; |
| 10:53 |
jeff |
captive portals get in the way and provide no direct benefit to the patron. |
| 10:54 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: yes, thank you. I'm trying to locate them in the DB right now. And I'm not sure how to find the mail server logs (might have to wait for csharp). |
| 10:54 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: You use Debian? |
| 10:54 |
Dyrcona |
Hm... csharp may have installed postfix instead of the default mail server, exim. |
| 10:56 |
* tsbere |
wasn't aware exim was the debian default. Or that debian *had* a default. |
| 10:56 |
dteston |
jeff: they do offer a forced login/verification though. |
| 10:56 |
Dyrcona |
tsbere: It is and it does. |
| 10:56 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: yes, 14.04 |
| 10:56 |
jeff |
dteston: does that benefit the patron in some way? |
| 10:56 |
Dyrcona |
Oh, Ubuntu, then... |
| 10:57 |
* Dyrcona |
needs a playbook to keep up. :) |
| 10:58 |
dteston |
jeff: Not as much as RADIUS would (since RADIUS is one-time setup). |
| 10:58 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: I probably can't help you find the logs in that case. |
| 10:59 |
jeff |
dteston: i'm not unsympathetic to the problem of "we'd like to count SOMETHING about wireless client sessions". i just really dislike captive portals as a solution. :-) |
| 10:59 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: yes -- sorry, I thought you were referring to Debian/Ubuntu instead of another family |
| 10:59 |
Dyrcona |
I meant Debian specifically. I forgot that csharp had mentioned switching a while ago. |
| 10:59 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: well, thanks for your help regardless. You've pointed me in the right direction. |
| 11:00 |
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collum joined #evergreen |
| 11:02 |
dteston |
jeff: that's understandable. I think RADIUS will be the better route anyway. CP's are just so purdy. |
| 11:03 |
Dyrcona |
jeff: From what I hear at C/W MARS some of our members have captive portals and some have open wifi. |
| 11:03 |
Dyrcona |
Apparently, one reason for having a captive portal is making the user agree to a terms of service type of thing, similar to having them sign before using a computer in the library. |
| 11:03 |
Dyrcona |
I guess it is a CYA sort of thing. |
| 11:04 |
jeff |
and i really wish that there were better client and protocol-level support for 802.1x options that didn't rely on things like plaintext passwords (though that's by no means the only annoyance with the various EAP options). |
| 11:05 |
Dyrcona |
Several years ago while vacationing at the beach, I opened up my laptop and looked at all of the closed access points around..... |
| 11:06 |
Dyrcona |
I thought, "If I had a house here, I'd put up a captive portal, and offer people wifi for $1/day or $5/week." |
| 11:06 |
Dyrcona |
Have the payments go through PayPal. |
| 11:07 |
Dyrcona |
Now, I just use my smart phone as an access point. :) |
| 11:07 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: yes, it's definitely great to have TOS displayed at each login. You'd make a killing with those prices. |
| 11:08 |
Dyrcona |
One of the access points was named something like "HAVE FUN AT THE BEACH!" |
| 11:08 |
dteston |
jeff: Agreed. It's a real pain, especially since you can't control how the client will hash/encrypt the password before transmission. |
| 11:08 |
jeff |
also great would be widespread support for reasonable anonymous key exchange for otherwise open-access wireless networks paired with some reasonable means of protection against MITM (either Trust on First Use or something involving CAs) |
| 11:09 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: Lol |
| 11:09 |
Dyrcona |
jeff: It would be great if we could just get crypto right in the first place. :) |
| 11:10 |
jeff |
Dyrcona: fwiw, I think that displaying terms of use is also a weak reason to use a captive portal. :-) |
| 11:10 |
Dyrcona |
jeff: OK. I'm not making an argument one way or the other. Just sayin'. |
| 11:10 |
* jeff |
nods |
| 11:10 |
jeff |
it's a commonly cited reason. |
| 11:11 |
Dyrcona |
I think the $1/day thing was a good idea, though. :) |
| 11:12 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: it would be the cheapest wifi around |
| 11:20 |
kmlussier |
@weather 01923 |
| 11:20 |
pinesol_green |
kmlussier: Danvers, MA :: Snow :: 32F/0C | Wind Chill: 28F/-2C | Thursday: Cloudy with rain and snow this morning. Rain and snow will become intermittent this afternoon. High near 40F. Winds WSW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 90%. Thursday Night: Clear skies. Low around 30F. Winds WNW at 10 to 15 mph. |
| 11:20 |
Dyrcona |
@weather |
| 11:20 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: Methuen, MA :: Snow :: 32F/0C | Thursday: Snow this morning will transition to snow showers this afternoon. High 38F. Winds light and variable. Chance of snow 90%. Snow accumulations less than one inch. Thursday Night: Mostly clear. Low 28F. Winds WNW at 5 to 10 mph. |
| 11:20 |
tsbere |
@weather |
| 11:20 |
pinesol_green |
tsbere: North Andover, MA :: Snow :: 32F/0C | Thursday: Snow this morning will give way to lingering snow showers this afternoon. High 38F. Winds WSW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of snow 80%. Snow accumulations less than one inch. Thursday Night: A clear sky. Low 29F. Winds WNW at 5 to 10 mph. |
| 11:21 |
dteston |
@weather |
| 11:21 |
pinesol_green |
dteston: Error: I did not find a preset location for you. Set via setweather <location> |
| 11:21 |
tsbere |
Similar, but different. Also, current snow is annoying. :P |
| 11:21 |
dteston |
setweather 30345 |
| 11:21 |
dteston |
@weather |
| 11:21 |
pinesol_green |
dteston: Error: I did not find a preset location for you. Set via setweather <location> |
| 11:21 |
dteston |
well... I am not good at this |
| 11:21 |
Dyrcona |
Well, it sounds like snow mixed with rain at the moment. |
| 11:21 |
jeff |
@weather ktvc |
| 11:21 |
pinesol_green |
jeff: Cherry Capital, MI :: Overcast :: 37F/3C | Wind Chill: 30F/-1C | Thursday: Mostly cloudy skies this morning will become partly cloudy this afternoon. High 38F. Winds WSW at 5 to 10 mph. Thursday Night: Mainly clear. Low near 30F. Winds SW at 5 to 10 mph. | Updated: 28m ago |
| 11:22 |
tsbere |
dteston: you want "@setweather 30345" |
| 11:22 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: You have to tell the bot where you live, otherwise add the zip code. |
| 11:22 |
dteston |
@setweather 30345 |
| 11:22 |
pinesol_green |
dteston: I have changed dteston's weather ID to 30345 |
| 11:22 |
Dyrcona |
@weather 01844 |
| 11:22 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: Methuen, MA :: Snow :: 32F/0C | Thursday: Snow this morning will transition to snow showers this afternoon. High 38F. Winds light and variable. Chance of snow 90%. Snow accumulations less than one inch. Thursday Night: Clear skies. Low 28F. Winds WNW at 5 to 10 mph. |
| 11:22 |
dteston |
@weather |
| 11:22 |
pinesol_green |
dteston: Atlanta, GA :: Partly Cloudy :: 58F/14C | Thursday: Partly cloudy. High 63F. Winds NW at 10 to 15 mph. Thursday Night: Mainly clear. Low 37F. Winds NNE at 5 to 10 mph. |
| 11:23 |
Dyrcona |
@weather wnzw |
| 11:23 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: Error: I could not find a valid location for: wnzw |
| 11:23 |
dteston |
tsbere: Dyrcona: thanks |
| 11:23 |
Dyrcona |
@weather nzw |
| 11:23 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: Woodbourne (Military), New Zealand :: Mostly Cloudy :: 57F/14C | Friday: Rain likely. High 64F. Winds SSE at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 80%. Rainfall near a quarter of an inch. Friday Night: Rain early. Decreasing clouds overnight. Low 46F. Winds light and variable. Chance of rain 60%. |
| 11:23 |
Dyrcona |
Eh, close enough.... :) |
| 11:24 |
gsams_ |
Oh neat, I didn't know about the setweather option |
| 11:24 |
rhamby |
@weather 30046 |
| 11:24 |
pinesol_green |
rhamby: Lawrenceville, GA :: Clear :: 61F/16C | Thursday: Mostly sunny. High 62F. Winds WNW at 10 to 15 mph. Thursday Night: Mainly clear. Low 38F. Winds NNE at 5 to 10 mph. | Updated: 9m ago |
| 11:24 |
gsams_ |
@setweather 76262 |
| 11:24 |
pinesol_green |
gsams_: I have changed gsams_'s weather ID to 76262 |
| 11:26 |
Dyrcona |
@weather wnz |
| 11:26 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: Error: I could not find a valid location for: wnz |
| 11:26 |
* Dyrcona |
can't remember the code for Wellington.... |
| 11:26 |
Dyrcona |
I should ask rangi. :) |
| 11:28 |
bshum |
@weather nzwn |
| 11:28 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: Wellington International, New Zealand :: Mostly Cloudy :: 57F/14C | Friday: Windy with rain early...then remaining cloudy with showers for the afternoon. High 59F. Winds S at 25 to 35 mph. Chance of rain 80%. Rainfall around a quarter of an inch. Friday Night: Partly cloudy and windy. Low 53F. Winds S at 20 to 30 mph. |
| 11:29 |
Dyrcona |
bshum++ |
| 11:34 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: the mail server is indeed postfix. You were right |
| 11:34 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: Yeah, it's a popular choice. |
| 11:34 |
* Dyrcona |
prefers exim, because I've used it longer. |
| 11:36 |
dteston |
I've found the mail server logs, and I'm looking at action_trigger.event right now. How do I see which action trigger emailed which patron? |
| 11:36 |
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jihpringle joined #evergreen |
| 11:37 |
dteston |
Like a way to correlate email logs to the action trigger |
| 11:37 |
tsbere |
dteston: Link back to the event(s) themselves. Or just look at the template output to see what the "To:" was set to. |
| 11:41 |
dteston |
tsbere: so where I see postfix/smtpd[12345] does 12345 correspond to the ID in action_trigger.event? |
| 11:41 |
tsbere |
No |
| 11:42 |
tsbere |
dteston: That is the PID of the postfix process and has nothing to do with A/T itself. |
| 11:42 |
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bmills joined #evergreen |
| 11:45 |
dteston |
tsbere: that's what I was thinking at first, but I queried a few and got results so I wasn't sure. |
| 11:46 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: What are you trying to do, exactly? Are you looking up notices for a specific patron or just checking in general to see if they are working? |
| 11:48 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: to see if they're working. tmccanna has seen issues where some triggers aren't sending to all patrons |
| 11:49 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: I'd find out what, if anything, these patrons have in common, like a certain ISP. |
| 11:49 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: Then, I'd check the mail server logs for delivery failures, and I'd check the mail server queue for frozen or stuck messages. |
| 11:50 |
tsbere |
dteston: I would double check if they aren't validating for some reason, or have other conditions that some patrons just don't meet... |
| 11:50 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: After that, I'd do what tsbere just said. :) |
| 12:00 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: that's a good idea. From the mail logs, I don't see any delivery failures so far. But from action_trigger.event, how do you match the results to a patron? |
| 12:01 |
dteston |
tsbere: Dyrcona: Sorry I'm having such a tough time finding this... you've probably answered my question already, but I'm not versed enough to follow. |
| 12:03 |
Dyrcona |
Are you looking for a particular email address? |
| 12:04 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: no, just looking to see which A/T emailed which patron(s) and at what time |
| 12:04 |
Dyrcona |
Well, that's a little trickier. :) |
| 12:05 |
Dyrcona |
It would be a rather complicated query, I think. |
| 12:07 |
Dyrcona |
I'd join action_trigger.event_definition with action_trigger.event for those events that I cared about. |
| 12:07 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: tricky is fine as long as the results are accurate :) even if not from a single query, which tables are required? |
| 12:08 |
tsbere |
dteston: action_trigger.event_output looking for the data field's "To:" line will get you email addresses. Perhaps substring(data from '(?:^|\n)To: ([^\n]*)\n') |
| 12:09 |
Dyrcona |
I'd limit the add_time or start_time to the time period that I cared about. |
| 12:09 |
Dyrcona |
I'd select the name from action_trigger.event_definition, something like what tsbere shared, and then the dates from action_trigger.event. |
| 12:10 |
Dyrcona |
You want to do what tsbere said on action_trigger.event.template_output. |
| 12:13 |
Dyrcona |
I'd include the action_trigger.event.state or add a condition in my where clause for certain states, depending on what I wanted to know. |
| 12:13 |
jeff |
dteston: are you looking at a certain class of event, such as circ courtesy/overdue notices, or hold pickup notices? |
| 12:13 |
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| 12:13 |
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NawJO joined #evergreen |
| 12:13 |
* Dyrcona |
assumes we're looking for more than one, i.e. all that send email. |
| 12:18 |
dteston |
tsbere: action_trigger.event_output is the exact info I was looking for! Dyrcona: time frame will also be important - thanks. Seems like all of the info I needed can be found on the action_trigger.event* tables. |
| 12:19 |
dteston |
jeff: nothing specific right now - I just need to verify that all of the triggers are working and displaying proper output (both on the A/T side and on the mail server) |
| 12:20 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: yes - your steps to join information from those tables was spot-on. tsbere: is '(?:^|\n)To: ([^\n]*)\n' for use in an SQL query? |
| 12:21 |
jeff |
rather general and vague. not too far from "please verify that all the books are checking out correctly". |
| 12:22 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: I can answer that question. You want it in your select list. |
| 12:23 |
dteston |
jeff: sorry, I just wanted to know where/how the information is stored so I can access it in the future |
| 12:23 |
Dyrcona |
You want to put the template_output column before the from |
| 12:23 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: thank you |
| 12:24 |
Dyrcona |
basically replace "data" in what tsbere shared with the column. |
| 12:26 |
Dyrcona |
Just wait until you're asked to reset them, so they'll run again. :) |
| 12:27 |
tsbere |
Dyrcona: I think data *is* the column name in question. |
| 12:28 |
Dyrcona |
Nope, it's template_output, unless you're looking at a different table. |
| 12:29 |
tsbere |
I thought template_output was a foreign key to event_output, the latter of which has a data column? |
| 12:29 |
Dyrcona |
Ah, yes. Sorry. My brain isn't working right. |
| 12:29 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: Do what tsbere said. :) |
| 12:30 |
Dyrcona |
The lines in the console were running together and I thought template_output was a text field. |
| 12:33 |
tsbere |
dteston: The entire "substring(data from '(?:^|\n)To: ([^\n]*)\n')" is "get the To: address out of the data field of action_trigger.event_output". Won't get anything else out, but useful as part of the select. |
| 12:39 |
dteston |
Dyrcona: tsbere: thanks for your help on this. Much easier to find the relevant information now |
| 12:45 |
Dyrcona |
dteston: yw |
| 12:52 |
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| 12:54 |
jvwoolf |
I thought at one point there was a page on the wiki or website that listed third-party services folks were using. Did I dream that, or does such a creature exist? |
| 12:56 |
Dyrcona |
jvwoolf: There was a third-party compatibility list for Evergreen 1.6. I think that may have been removed, and I seem to recall someone emailing one of the lists about updating it. |
| 12:57 |
jvwoolf |
Dyrcona: Ah, that was probably what I was thinking of. Thanks. |
| 12:58 |
jeff |
there was a call a while back for people to speak up about things they used with evergreen, but it went largely ignored by the community. |
| 12:59 |
jeff |
there is/was also a survey put out by (i think) Sitka, which I saw link to recently but don't recall having seen any output. |
| 13:00 |
tsbere |
One thing that bugs me about a lot of those is that the compatibility doesn't always have anything to do with Evergreen at all. |
| 13:00 |
Dyrcona |
And, it does look like the old list is gone. |
| 13:01 |
tsbere |
"Lets see how many keyboard-emulating barcode scanners we can list!" <_< |
| 13:01 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 13:01 |
Dyrcona |
yeah... "Is barcode scanner X compatible with Evergreen?" "Does it work with Windows?" "Yes." "Well, that's your answer. It's not the '80s any more." :) |
| 13:02 |
jvwoolf |
I just found this. Yeah...that's a lot of scanners. :) https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=faqs:evergreen_compatible_products_results_survey&s[]=compatible |
| 13:02 |
tsbere |
Same thing with receipt printers. "Can WordPad print bold and italic text to it? Yes? Then it works with Windows. Evergreen will be fine." |
| 13:03 |
jeff |
neither of those being third party services, i don't think those are what jvwoolf is asking for. :-) |
| 13:04 |
Dyrcona |
jeff: No, but those are the questions we get asked....all...the...time. (We, being tsber and myself.) |
| 13:04 |
Dyrcona |
oops. sorry, tsbere, typoed your name. |
| 13:04 |
Dyrcona |
"Does it do SIP2?" "Yes." "Does it do SIP2, properly?" "Um....." :) |
| 13:05 |
tsbere |
That is a more difficult one |
| 13:05 |
Dyrcona |
Granted, we don't necessarily do SIP2 properly. :) |
| 13:05 |
tsbere |
My favorite recently: "Does it communicate with the ILS in any way, shape, or form?" "No" "Then why are you asking me if it is compatible?" |
| 13:06 |
jeff |
ah, this was the one i was remembering, and it was more focused on "API users": https://evergreen-ils.org/olly-olly-oxen-free-users-of-evergreen-apis-stand-up-and-be-counted/ |
| 13:06 |
tsbere |
That was for a scanner package that was going to be set up on a standalone machine without Evergreen installed with no communication with Evergreen for anything. And they wanted to make sure it was compatible for some reason. |
| 13:06 |
jeff |
tsbere: i don't complain when someone asks, i thank them. :-) |
| 13:07 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 13:07 |
tsbere |
jeff: I don't mind as much when they ask about things that may, possibly, somehow interact with the system. When they email after hours on a Friday about something that has no ILS involvement at all and complain that I haven't answered yet by 8am Monday... |
| 13:08 |
Dyrcona |
But, anyway, the list that jvwoolf is asking about does seem to be well and truly gone. |
| 13:08 |
tsbere |
(I don't even start work officially until 9, and I wasn't on at all over the weekend) |
| 13:08 |
Dyrcona |
If it was on the dokuwiki and someone has the URL still, I think it could be ressurrected. |
| 13:09 |
Dyrcona |
resurrected? OK. Spell check, you win... |
| 13:13 |
Dyrcona |
jeff: I seem to recall something more recent than gmcharlt's message, and it was bout 3rd party products..... |
| 13:13 |
* Dyrcona |
searches..... |
| 13:15 |
jeff |
and the other one i was talking about above was https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/evergreencompatibleproducts which is designed to be input to updating https://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=faqs:evergreen_compatible_products_results_survey |
| 13:16 |
jeff |
that was sent to various Evergreen mailing lists back in November. |
| 13:16 |
Dyrcona |
And, wow! Turn up a 5-year-old blog posts mentioning a temporary position that was never filled..... |
| 13:16 |
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| 13:16 |
Dyrcona |
And, jeff, that was what I was thinking of and my dokuwiki search was too narrow to dig it up. |
| 13:17 |
Dyrcona |
Though, I found it with Google just now. ;) |
| 13:19 |
Dyrcona |
And, that may not be the list that I was thinking of, but the email from November definitely is. ;) |
| 13:19 |
Dyrcona |
jeff++ |
| 13:21 |
jvwoolf |
Dycona++ |
| 13:21 |
jvwoolf |
jeff++ |
| 13:21 |
jeff |
plan is to populate the wiki page with information from the survey on or after Feb 27 2017: http://markmail.org/message/dcjxxzwrd6bymk2x |
| 13:54 |
* Dyrcona |
waits for tsbere to say my oversimplification of matchpoints and limit sets is dangerously close to be wrong. :) |
| 14:02 |
tsbere |
Dyrcona: Wait, I am supposed to pay attention to that email thread? ;) |
| 14:02 |
Dyrcona |
Ha! |
| 14:02 |
Dyrcona |
I'm just used to running into your office to double check that I'm setting the limits up correctly. :) |
| 14:03 |
* tsbere |
goes and looks, finding Dyrcona's description to be good enough |
| 14:04 |
tsbere |
I considered responding with something like "Well, that depends. I can describe how to make it work in any of the ways described". <_< |
| 14:05 |
Dyrcona |
Yes....I deleted a paragraph or two about seeing me at the conference for the gory details, and about waking up in the middle of the night screaming, "Cthulh Ftaghn!" if you try to get fancy. :) |
| 14:06 |
* tsbere |
came up with a few very convoluted setups for testing purposes at one point |
| 14:07 |
tsbere |
Including one "apply this rule to this user group, but not to the child group" that depended on circ fallthrough, the limits sets *not* having fallthrough, and a couple other things |
| 14:08 |
Dyrcona |
Yeah, I didn't want to go there, though I didn't think about the possibility of different limits for different user groups when writing the email. |
| 14:09 |
tsbere |
Basically I went for "what is the most convoluted thing I think this can do based on the documentation I just made for it?" and then tried to make it work. And did. ;) |
| 14:10 |
Dyrcona |
I mean, you could add a matchpoint so that one library's checkout limit applies while the other's circ rules apply, but why would you do that? |
| 14:10 |
Dyrcona |
Heh. |
| 14:10 |
Dyrcona |
Sometimes, it is good to test the limits. |
| 14:13 |
JBoyer |
tsbere, Dyrcona, Am I remembering correctly that one of you had a query that would look at config.circ_matrix_matchpoint and somehow display the weights that each row would result in? I'm - considering - something for the conference and that would be a big help. |
| 14:14 |
tsbere |
I think we have a couple of things that could do that |
| 14:14 |
Dyrcona |
JBoyer: It even produces an XLSX workbook! |
| 14:14 |
Dyrcona |
Well, mine does. ;) |
| 14:15 |
JBoyer |
Fancy. Is it also on the mvlcstaff git server or github or neither? |
| 14:16 |
Dyrcona |
JBoyer: https://github.com/Dyrcona/evergreen_utilities/blob/master/perl/parameters.pl |
| 14:16 |
Dyrcona |
It's on both, actually. |
| 14:16 |
tsbere |
http://git.mvlcstaff.org/?p=jason/evergreen_utilities.git;a=blob;f=perl/parameters.pl |
| 14:16 |
Dyrcona |
Might as well grab that whole repo. |
| 14:17 |
Dyrcona |
Github might have changes that the mvlcstaff.org one lacks. |
| 14:17 |
Dyrcona |
I suppose I could check and push if I need to. |
| 14:18 |
JBoyer |
I've had evergreen_utilities around for a while, just didn't realize that was in there. I'll be sure to grab the github one so it's up to date. Thanks for the reminder! |
| 14:18 |
Dyrcona |
They appear to be the same. |
| 14:19 |
Dyrcona |
A push says "Everything up to date." |
| 14:23 |
jihpringle |
jvwoolf: If you want I can send you what's been collected so far for compatible third party services |
| 14:23 |
kmlussier |
gmcharlt: Starter point release notes are at working/user/kmlussier/2-10-9-and-2-11-2-release-notes |
| 14:26 |
gmcharlt |
kmlussier++ |
| 14:50 |
JBoyer |
Dyrcona, works great, thanks. Now to decide if I actually want to try to cover this stuff or not... |
| 14:50 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 14:54 |
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| 17:02 |
pinesol_green |
News from qatests: Test Success <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live> |
| 17:24 |
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