Evergreen ILS Website

IRC log for #evergreen, 2016-10-07

| Channels | #evergreen index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary | Join Webchat

All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
07:20 gsams_ joined #evergreen
07:20 rjackson_isl joined #evergreen
07:47 Dyrcona joined #evergreen
08:15 collum joined #evergreen
08:31 kmlussier joined #evergreen
08:37 mmorgan joined #evergreen
08:38 ldw joined #evergreen
08:50 bos20k joined #evergreen
09:08 yboston joined #evergreen
09:16 * kmlussier wonders if it would be worthwhile to rename the Conference menu on the web site as Events and include other types of events there as well, such as the hack-a-way. It might also be a good place to link to the community calendar.
09:18 collum kmlussier: I think that's a great idea.
09:20 Dyrcona Yeah, sound good to me.
09:24 kmlussier collum / Dyrcona: Thanks!
09:24 * kmlussier will try to carve out some time to re-work that menu at some point.
09:27 rhamby +1 to that idea as well
09:39 * Dyrcona lives dangeroulsy....Messing with /etc/sudoers remotely. :)
09:40 * gmcharlt casts a spell of No Typos on Dyrcona
09:41 bshum joined #evergreen
09:53 Dyrcona heh.
10:00 * tsbere has been known to mess with /etc/sudoers remotely....while in a sudo -i to root in a screen session so that he can test the changes and then fix them if he made a mistake ;)
10:18 Stompro joined #evergreen
10:21 Stompro Good morning!  I'm trying to write some docs on copy notes and alerts.  I'm curious if there is a reason that the alert field box in the item status/alternate view allows text input?  There doesn't seem to be a way to save the alert text from there.. is there?
10:23 kmlussier Stompro: I don't know why, but I'm not a big fan of the way those boxes display in the item status/alternate view for precisely that reason. It gives the impression that the fields are editable in the interface, but they aren't.
10:25 ejk joined #evergreen
10:26 Stompro Thanks kmlussier, I'll file a bug on it if I cannot find one that is already created.  It would be nice if it could be edited from there, there are too many oportunities to screw stuff up in the item attribute editor in my opinion.
10:27 Stompro One other question for you... is there any way to tell that a copy has notes other than going into the item attribute editor, and selecting "Copy Notes"?
10:28 kmlussier Alas, no.
10:29 Stompro Thanks, just wanted to make sure.
10:29 mmorgan That's one of the things that makes copy notes not as useful as they could be
10:30 Stompro There must be a bug report on that one already.  I think I've heard it talked about before.
10:51 collum joined #evergreen
10:59 Dyrcona So, from reading the documentation (http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2​.10/_authentication_proxy.html), it looks like Evergreen can communicate with multiple LDAP servers, and it can be used in concert with Evergreen's normal authentication.
11:00 Dyrcona For those suing ldap, dbs ? dbwells ? is that so?
11:00 Dyrcona heh. gmchartl's spell must have worn off. :)
11:00 Dyrcona gah!
11:01 Dyrcona gmcharlt's spell has definitely worn off. :)
11:01 dbs Dyrcona: I believe so (different LDAP servers for different OUs), although we're only authing against one LDAP server. We used to use both LDAP (Laurentian) and CAS (Windsor) way back when.
11:01 mmorgan Maybe gmcharlt made a typo when he cast the spell
11:01 Dyrcona dbs: Thanks. That is what I gathered.
11:01 gmcharlt mmorgan: all too likely, alas ;)
11:01 dbs The only trick is that you need an Evergreen internal auth password to register a workstation because at the time of registration it doesn't know what OU to use for auth.
11:02 dbs (maybe that could be changed with webby, dunno!)
11:02 Dyrcona dbs: Duly noted.
11:02 Dyrcona Well, the spell worked when I needed it. :)
11:02 Dyrcona No typos in the sudoers file.
11:07 Dyrcona dbs: LDAP covers the OPAC, too, right?
11:08 Dyrcona I mean, I'm pretty sure it does, but just making sure.
11:09 Dyrcona Oh, of course it does. That was my stupid question for the day. :)
11:09 dbs hah, yeah :)
11:09 dbs good to get it out of the way early!
11:12 kmlussier joined #evergreen
11:16 Christineb joined #evergreen
11:27 * kmlussier is quickly fading and decides to throw in the towel for the day.
11:27 kmlussier Dyrcona: Best wishes on your first upgrade at C/W MARS. I hope everything goes well!
11:27 dbs Dyrcona++
11:27 Dyrcona Thanks!
11:28 Dyrcona I believe I am ready.
11:31 Dyrcona Actually those sudoers changes I mentioned earlier were part of my preparations.
11:32 bmills joined #evergreen
11:37 brahmina joined #evergreen
11:38 abowling joined #evergreen
11:39 abowling joined #evergreen
12:18 jihpringle joined #evergreen
12:41 bmills joined #evergreen
13:05 bmills joined #evergreen
13:05 bmills joined #evergreen
13:21 ssieb joined #evergreen
13:43 bos20k Hello everyone.  I have an Apache question.  Does Evergreen require that we use the prefork MPM in Apache?  Is there any reason why we couldn't use the event MPM?
13:49 miker bos20k: event MPM is untested, but I would be very surprised if the opensrf libraries would work as expected in anything but prefork.  they assume a connection per process to do what they want with.  IOW, opensrf has a process-oriented architecture, and threads and multiplexing are not catered to
13:51 bos20k miker: Hmmm. Ok, thanks. I have been watching our servers and it seems that more resources are taken up by Apache processes than anything else.  Trying to think of ways to reduce that burden.
13:53 miker that's where the resources are needed, and 2.4 seems much worse than 2.2, btw. just my $0.02 but unless you're hitting OOM errors, like dbs was recently, using them is what resources are for... :)
13:54 miker are you, in fact, seeing errors?
13:55 bos20k No, not errors.  We see big spikes in traffic.  Sometimes those spikes seem to slow things down enough that it makes the load balancers think one of the servers fell off a cliff.  But there are no errors in the logs.
13:56 * miker runs off to a meeting ... doh!
14:27 DPearl joined #evergreen
14:58 serflog joined #evergreen
14:58 Topic for #evergreen is now Welcome to the #evergreen library system channel! | We are publicly logged: http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/evergreen | Large pastes at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org
15:13 wsmoak joined #evergreen
15:16 tsbere joined #evergreen
15:16 dbs bos20k: I feel your pain
15:17 bos20k dbs: Hehe.  I am wondering if it would be better to have four smaller servers that we load balance across instead of two bigger ones.
15:18 sard joined #evergreen
15:19 bmills joined #evergreen
15:19 brahmina joined #evergreen
15:19 Christineb_away joined #evergreen
15:20 dbs we're still not entirely free of network timeouts with our one big server, alas
15:20 bos20k joined #evergreen
15:20 dbs but we've been OOM-free for 8 days, so that's a bonus.
15:21 bos20k dbs: sorry if I missed anything.  I was on an IRC server that got rebooted.
15:21 dbs PostgreSQL has a dedicated server, of course. I'm just talking about one big opensrf / app / apache server.
15:21 dbs not much, just 15:20 < dbs> we're still not entirely free of network timeouts with our one big server, alas
15:24 bos20k Hmmm. We have two VMs as our head end app servers.  Each has 24 cores and 32GB allocated to it.  Apache doesn't keep up sometimes.  That's why I'm looking at options.  miker says Apache event MPM is unlikely to work.  So, I have been fiddling with the prefork MPM settings a bit today.  I kind of doubt it will make much difference but we'll see.
15:25 bos20k If I can't seem to make any headway I was thinking for the future maybe I will split these two up in to 4 VMs with 8-12 cores each instead of 2 with 24 cores each.
15:26 Dyrcona bos20k: I've been there and have no real solution other than tweak your settings until you find something that mostly works.
15:26 bshum bos20k: Ages past, we used to track that sort of memory utilization with stuff like munin and it didn't used to spike much beyond 12-14 GB; but also we weren't running apache 2.4 back in those days.
15:26 Dyrcona Yeap. It's definitely worse on 2.4. Something changed with memory management, I'm sure.
15:27 bos20k bshum: the memory utilization seems to stay in that 12-14GB range on each VM.
15:27 Dyrcona bos20k: I've seen individual apache processes using up to 1GB of RAM.
15:27 * dbs did revise the "MaxConnectionsPerChild" way down in http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2.11/_​configure_the_apache_web_server.html
15:27 bos20k It just seems that Apache doesn't keep up with the spikes in traffic then the load balancers will take one of them out occasionally for no other obvious reason.
15:28 bshum It's not cause ldirector is looking for that crazy ping file and can't cause too many jobs doing other things, right?
15:28 dbs Keeping KeepAliveTimeout at 1, MaxKeepAliveRequests 100, and MaxConnectionsPerChild 500 at least took care of the worst of the memory leakage.
15:29 dbs but as Dyrcona says, every env will be different :/
15:29 Dyrcona yeah, but lower maxconnectionsperchild definitely helps.
15:29 Dyrcona They don't stick around long enough to eat 1GB of RAM.
15:30 dbs at some point csharp had pointed at max simultaneous connections in memcached as a bottleneck they had faced, but that was a very different environment
15:30 dbs oh yeah, and enabling SMP mode in ejabberd made a big difference for us too.
15:30 dbs tsbere++ # for his old blog post on that, IIRC
15:30 Dyrcona yeah.
15:31 bos20k bshum: that is my assumption given the fact that I am not seeing anything obvious in the logs. My asumtpion based on watching what happens is traffic spikes are occasionally not handled by Apache even though there should be sufficient resources in the VM then the load balancers will take out one of the VMs for a number of seconds until the spike subsides enough then puts it back in.
15:31 tsbere dbs: I still find that useful myself :D
15:33 Dyrcona At C/W MARS we're still using apache 2.2 and I don't see this issue here.
15:33 ldw_ joined #evergreen
15:33 mceraso joined #evergreen
15:34 eady joined #evergreen
15:34 yboston joined #evergreen
15:34 jvwoolf joined #evergreen
15:35 bshum bos20k: If you do rearchitect the VMs, I always like to prop up this suggestion I heard to split access between staff and public users.  Like have one URL and couple backends for public and then use a separate URL and backends for staff.
15:35 bshum Dyrcona++ # for good ideas that I wish I'd had time to do
15:35 Dyrcona tsbere++ # It was really his idea.
15:35 mmorgan joined #evergreen
15:35 bshum Though, Dyrcona wasn't there the whole book on the enter key weirdness that we still haven't pinned down?
15:36 Dyrcona Well, there's no good solution for that for Apache, anyway. It's not just an Evergreen problem.
15:37 bshum Indeed.
15:37 bshum I guess if we ran out of children to get the ldirectorping file, it'd drop it from rotation.  That sucks :\
15:37 tsbere bshum: It also helps when your staff and public use different domains, so have different certificates, and thus needed different IPs in the first place...
15:37 Dyrcona Some kind of traffic shaping rules on a firewall could do it.
15:39 * bshum remembers the time he used some command that he stole from hopkinsju to request 10k home pages of Evergreen and "accidentally" killed someone's system
15:44 jonadab joined #evergreen
15:47 dbs_ joined #evergreen
15:48 jeffdavis joined #evergreen
15:48 ssieb joined #evergreen
15:48 Ilie` joined #evergreen
15:48 RBecker joined #evergreen
15:48 Ilie` joined #evergreen
15:48 genpaku joined #evergreen
15:48 Dyrcona joined #evergreen
15:48 abowling joined #evergreen
15:48 pastebot joined #evergreen
15:49 Callender joined #evergreen
15:49 Bmagic joined #evergreen
15:53 phasefx joined #evergreen
15:56 remingtron joined #evergreen
15:57 gmcharlt joined #evergreen
15:57 barbara joined #evergreen
15:57 phasefx_ joined #evergreen
15:57 sarabee joined #evergreen
15:57 graced joined #evergreen
16:01 dbs bshum: probably a command starting with "ab " :)
16:08 csharp joined #evergreen
16:08 csharp joined #evergreen
16:08 egbuilder joined #evergreen
16:08 akilsdonk joined #evergreen
16:08 miker joined #evergreen
16:09 jeff___ joined #evergreen
16:09 berick joined #evergreen
16:09 rhamby joined #evergreen
16:09 Shae joined #evergreen
16:09 ericar joined #evergreen
16:09 book` joined #evergreen
16:10 jyorio joined #evergreen
16:12 Christineb joined #evergreen
16:12 pinesol_green joined #evergreen
16:12 jeffdavis joined #evergreen
16:23 artunit_away joined #evergreen
16:31 Christineb joined #evergreen
16:39 b_bonner joined #evergreen
16:39 dbwells joined #evergreen
16:39 tsbere joined #evergreen
16:39 ldw_ joined #evergreen
16:39 eady joined #evergreen
16:39 dbs joined #evergreen
16:39 Ilie` joined #evergreen
16:39 pastebot joined #evergreen
16:39 Guest35673 joined #evergreen
16:39 phasefx_ joined #evergreen
16:39 sarabee joined #evergreen
16:39 graced joined #evergreen
16:39 rhamby joined #evergreen
16:39 Shae joined #evergreen
16:39 ericar joined #evergreen
16:39 gsams_ joined #evergreen
16:39 bshum joined #evergreen
16:39 Stompro joined #evergreen
16:39 ejk joined #evergreen
16:39 jihpringle joined #evergreen
16:39 sard joined #evergreen
16:39 brahmina joined #evergreen
16:39 yboston joined #evergreen
16:39 jvwoolf joined #evergreen
16:39 jeffdavis joined #evergreen
16:39 genpaku joined #evergreen
16:39 abowling joined #evergreen
16:39 Bmagic joined #evergreen
16:39 phasefx joined #evergreen
16:39 remingtron joined #evergreen
16:39 csharp joined #evergreen
16:39 akilsdonk joined #evergreen
16:39 miker joined #evergreen
16:39 jeff___ joined #evergreen
16:39 berick joined #evergreen
16:39 jyorio joined #evergreen
16:39 Christineb joined #evergreen
16:39 pinesol_green joined #evergreen
16:39 artunit_away joined #evergreen
16:39 egbuilder joined #evergreen
16:39 gmcharlt joined #evergreen
16:39 ssieb joined #evergreen
16:39 bos20k joined #evergreen
16:39 book` joined #evergreen
16:39 Dyrcona joined #evergreen
16:39 bmills joined #evergreen
16:39 DPearl joined #evergreen
16:39 jeff_ joined #evergreen
16:39 mnsri joined #evergreen
16:54 wsmoak joined #evergreen
17:07 mmorgan left #evergreen
17:28 bmills joined #evergreen
19:43 jeff___ joined #evergreen
21:07 ssieb joined #evergreen
21:28 bmills joined #evergreen

| Channels | #evergreen index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary | Join Webchat