| Time |
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| 07:33 |
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| 07:33 |
kmlussier |
@coffee [someone] |
| 07:33 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a cup of Panama Esmeralda Especial, and sends it sliding down the bar to bwicksall |
| 07:34 |
kmlussier |
@tea [someone] |
| 07:34 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a pot of Dragon Pearl Jasmine, and sends it sliding down the bar to dkyle (http://ratetea.com/tea/harney/dragon-pearl-jasmine/1320/) |
| 07:39 |
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| 08:18 |
jeff |
just think! by this time next week... |
| 08:19 |
jeff |
...we'll probably all be tired of seeing each other's smiling faces. ;-) |
| 08:19 |
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| 08:20 |
bshum |
jeff: Or..... we'll be wondering why the sun is so bright the next morning? |
| 08:22 |
jeff |
the other option (other than something like https://jsfiddle.net/fjsega2s/4/ from yesterday) is to have that for staff (where it makes a lot of sense to verify notification prefs in general) and have the patron side be entirely post-placement. |
| 08:24 |
jeff |
reducing the number of steps / questions before the hold is placed, using reasonable defaults on the notification options, and indicating the notification methods to the user on the post-hold-placement confirmation/summary screen, with a means by which you can adjust. |
| 08:35 |
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| 08:36 |
kmlussier |
jeff: I think both ideas have merit. Can't say which one would be better. |
| 08:55 |
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| 09:01 |
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| 09:04 |
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| 09:08 |
dbwells |
jeff: I'd advocate for the fiddle approach you posted. One possible tweak would be to hide (rather than disable) the extra options until the patron first selects "Custom settings for this hold". |
| 09:09 |
dbwells |
I think I'd probably leave it as-is, though. |
| 09:14 |
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| 09:15 |
Dyrcona |
So, the problems installing bower, et al., from npm have been fixed by the npm registry guys. |
| 09:15 |
jeff |
good to hear. |
| 09:15 |
Dyrcona |
Now, I'm being prompted to pick a version of Angular. |
| 09:15 |
Dyrcona |
I believe I want 1.4, yes? |
| 09:16 |
jeff |
at some point we may need to install a non-packaged version of npm, but glad to hear that isn't being forced by the gzip/etc changes right now. |
| 09:17 |
StomproJ |
jeff, dbwells I had the same thoughts about hiding the custom settings until that option is selected. |
| 09:18 |
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| 09:19 |
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| 09:19 |
Dyrcona |
jeff: Yes, I agree about the non-packaged version, but I don't have time right now. |
| 09:20 |
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| 09:20 |
StomproJ |
I wonder if it could be made a little more foolproof also, by making the custom notification settings additional notifications. We will notify your normal notification sources, in addition to the custom settings. To make it harder for one off mistakes to cause no notifications. |
| 09:21 |
jeff |
Dyrcona: Angular 1.3 as of Feb. berick was commenting on having experimented with 1.4 -- some changes were required. |
| 09:21 |
Dyrcona |
jeff: I thought he was working on 1.5.... |
| 09:21 |
Dyrcona |
Well, damn. |
| 09:22 |
Dyrcona |
Guess I have to undo it. |
| 09:22 |
* Dyrcona |
builds a new vm. |
| 09:22 |
bshum |
1.2 |
| 09:22 |
bshum |
https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1554714 says Angular 1.2 |
| 09:22 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1554714 in Evergreen "Migrate Browser Client to Angular 1.5 + Dependencies" [Undecided,New] |
| 09:22 |
bshum |
Heading towards 1.5 |
| 09:22 |
jeff |
heh |
| 09:23 |
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| 09:23 |
Dyrcona |
See, another reason why love^W^Wathe Javascript frameworks..... |
| 09:24 |
Dyrcona |
All the different versions and no compatibility, even when promised. |
| 09:30 |
tsbere |
There are days I think you can correct that by removing the word "Javascript" |
| 09:32 |
Dyrcona |
I disagree. |
| 09:32 |
Dyrcona |
I use Java, C++, C, and other frameworks that maintain compatibility through a major version's releases. |
| 09:33 |
Dyrcona |
With Javascript, you need to drop the first set of digits. :) |
| 09:34 |
Dyrcona |
Anyway, I'm the guy who says versions/releases are meaningless. :) |
| 09:34 |
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| 09:46 |
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| 09:48 |
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| 09:50 |
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| 09:50 |
kmlussier |
StomproJ: I think I would prefer that the custom notification settings replace the normal notification settings. There may be a reason a patron doesn't want to use the normal notification method. |
| 09:52 |
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| 09:52 |
kmlussier |
For example, a minor who is checking out material on a sensitive topic and whose normal notification settings go to an email address accessible to their parents. |
| 09:54 |
kmlussier |
Actually, that's a bad example since you can't change the email address for the hold. But you get the point. |
| 09:54 |
StomproJ |
kmlussier, I know there are valid reasons, I'm just lazy and don't want to deal with bounced notices. |
| 09:55 |
jeff |
Where did we end up on the subject of bounced notices? |
| 09:55 |
jeff |
Oh. |
| 09:55 |
jeff |
When a patron overrides notification and the voice/text "bounces"? |
| 09:56 |
jeff |
Are both of you advocating that we add the ability to have a per-hold email address as well? |
| 09:57 |
kmlussier |
jeff: No, I wasn't. I was just selecting a poor example to illustrate a point. Sorry to get things off track. |
| 09:57 |
StomproJ |
Yes, since there currently is no validation on data entered there. I need to work on 1098685 |
| 09:57 |
jeff |
kmlussier seems to be suggesting that new feature, and StomproJ's reference to "bounced notices" made me wonder. |
| 09:57 |
jeff |
Ah. |
| 09:57 |
StomproJ |
I'm not advocating for custom email per hold. |
| 09:57 |
kmlussier |
But, now that I think of it, whatever is done, it would be nice if there was consistency among all the notification methods. I'm not quite sure why email is treated differently than phone or text. |
| 09:58 |
* Dyrcona |
prefers dead drops.... |
| 09:59 |
rhamby_ |
kmlussier: if we're consistently inconsistent would that satisfy you? |
| 09:59 |
kmlussier |
rhamby_: You know, I think we may already be there. :) |
| 10:00 |
rhamby_ |
kmlussier: see, there is cause for happiness in life, goals are being accomplished! |
| 10:00 |
kmlussier |
rhamby_: It's amazing what can happen when you shift your goals |
| 10:01 |
* kmlussier |
just found a bunch of in-focus hack-a-way photos that never got posted anywhere. |
| 10:02 |
StomproJ |
Can we add in verification of notification methods now also... If you enter a new sms number, you should have to verify it by entering the code that gets sent. Same with phone and email. :-) |
| 10:03 |
Dyrcona |
StomproJ: Patches welcome! |
| 10:04 |
jeff |
StomproJ: I'm for that for email especially. |
| 10:04 |
jeff |
StomproJ: there are other things I'd like to make happen first, like handling bounced emails and having an option for "stop sending me these -- I'm not them!" |
| 10:05 |
jeff |
Pretty quickly this starts to suggest a really nice designed-with-evergreen-in-mind external notification system. ;-) |
| 10:06 |
StomproJ |
jeff, VERP support would be wonderful. I would love to see the bounces stored somewhere that staff could easily view and show to the customers. |
| 10:06 |
Dyrcona |
Is that really the job of the ILS? |
| 10:07 |
miker |
kmlussier: the reason that email is different is was a concern over people putting other's addresses in, to harass them. (not that I agree with the justification, but I lost that battle...) |
| 10:07 |
Dyrcona |
Ah, who am I kidding....Evergreen is a framework, not an ILS. |
| 10:07 |
miker |
is was? what? ... is that there was |
| 10:07 |
jeff |
If you're in a situation where you're needing to show bounce messages to patrons, I think you might want to change the situation, not make it easier to show bounce messages to patrons. |
| 10:07 |
kmlussier |
miker: I suspected something along those lines. |
| 10:08 |
Dyrcona |
Well, two frameworks and an ILS: OpenSRF, Open-ILS, Evergreen. |
| 10:08 |
miker |
Dyrcona: excuse me, I think you mean Platform(tm) |
| 10:08 |
Dyrcona |
IAAS. |
| 10:08 |
Dyrcona |
;) |
| 10:08 |
Dyrcona |
miker++ |
| 10:08 |
Dyrcona |
Now, we've got MAAS: Metal As-A-Service.... |
| 10:09 |
* kmlussier |
is somewhat amused at the idea of harassing somebody by placing a bunch of library holds for them on their behalf. |
| 10:09 |
Dyrcona |
kmlussier: I think it goes more like placing a bunch of holds on your own account and send the emails to some one else, which sound a bit far fetched to me. |
| 10:10 |
miker |
(incidentally, that's also why it took years to get public record buckets (aka lists) ... what if someone fills one with objectionable material and sends you a link to it) |
| 10:11 |
Dyrcona |
I don't know. I'm an adult. I'll just delete it and get on with my life. |
| 10:11 |
Dyrcona |
*insert rolls eyes emoji* |
| 10:13 |
StomproJ |
jeff, about the bounce messages, I'm sure you are correct about that. Very few people care about the specifics of bounce messages, I haven't thought that through. |
| 10:16 |
StomproJ |
Hmm, what titles would be good choices for harassment? "Why do I keep getting notified that the" Dummies guide to doing researche at home and not at the library" is ready?" |
| 10:17 |
jeff |
Prior to our original migration I placed a hold on something with Sanity in the title. If I still had a hold on my "Sanity" the following day, it was a good sign. |
| 10:19 |
kmlussier |
StomproJ: Despite my prior amusement, I'm sure there are many titles that could be offensive and harassing for folks. But, yes, I'm in agreement with Dyrcona that the steps involved seem a little far-fetched. |
| 10:20 |
kmlussier |
jeff++ |
| 10:27 |
jeff |
We're having to resort to something very VERP-like to deal with the fact that some critical data is not included in NCIP messages from the state's INN-Reach system, so we're working around the issue by using SMTP. :P |
| 10:29 |
miker |
re harassing via holds, it also exposes the culprit ... |
| 10:33 |
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| 11:06 |
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| 11:15 |
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| 11:19 |
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| 11:27 |
Dyrcona |
jeff: Doing the installation again, I do not get a choice of angular 1.3, I'm offered 1.2, 1.4, or 1.5. Going with 1.2. |
| 11:27 |
Dyrcona |
BTW, this is when doing the steps in the Evergreen installation itself. Not when installing prereqs. |
| 11:28 |
jeff |
Yeah, don't listen to me on that one. :-) |
| 11:33 |
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| 11:34 |
Dyrcona |
Well, I'm not sure. Those are just the versions that npm or whatever offered. |
| 11:46 |
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| 12:03 |
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| 13:52 |
* dbs |
wonders how well Bibliotheca smartstation RFID software works with the staff client |
| 13:53 |
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| 13:54 |
jeff |
doesn't look like they're going to be at the conference this year, or i'd suggest picking someone's brain or getting them to demonstrate. |
| 13:55 |
jeff |
i don't have direct experience, but i think tsbere has played with it a little (possibly just at a previous conference) |
| 13:56 |
JBoyer |
dbs: Quite well unless they've broken things in the last couple years. |
| 13:56 |
tsbere |
I poked things to make it better (mainly in figuring out what input field had focus), but found that the methods I was going to use caused insane memory leaks. |
| 13:56 |
jeff |
i think it's the "usual" software keyboard shim selecting by window title, but with optional SIP2 based followup for "hey, did this item just get checked in, or checked out?" to auto-determine security bit flipping. |
| 13:56 |
JBoyer |
The primary issue I had with their stuff was that it inspected window titles and the offline client has none. |
| 13:57 |
Dyrcona |
Nasty..... |
| 13:57 |
jeff |
Dyrcona: hmm? |
| 13:58 |
dbs |
thanks JBoyer++ |
| 13:58 |
Dyrcona |
Screen scraping, basically....That's nasty. |
| 13:58 |
jeff |
I have high hopes for WebUSB, but I worry a little bit about the centralized registry that seems to be baked into the standard. |
| 13:59 |
jeff |
Network attached will probably still be a slightly more reasonable path. :-) |
| 13:59 |
Dyrcona |
Exposing peripherals on the web....What could possibly go wrong? |
| 14:03 |
jeff |
Oh. That's reasonable. The device can express its own support for WebUSB without requiring the central registry. |
| 14:03 |
* dbs |
frowns at self-check docs: "login screen provides a keypad to patrons can type in a membership number to access without a card" / "secondary level for access using a PIN may be configured" |
| 14:04 |
dbs |
hopefully "membership number" means "username", and "PIN" means "their normal password"? |
| 14:04 |
jeff |
dbs: that's my interpretation, yes. |
| 14:06 |
jeff |
maybe "support a self checkout PIN distinct from user password" would be a fun hackfest project. |
| 14:06 |
dbs |
username might mean user barcode though. might find out for real at some point |
| 14:06 |
jeff |
or i could finish some other things |
| 14:06 |
dbs |
jeff++ |
| 14:06 |
bshum |
dbs: Selfcheck uses username or barcode, depending on config |
| 14:06 |
jeff |
dbs: oh, sorry -- i misread your interpretation. i would assume barcode not username. |
| 14:06 |
jeff |
bshum is talking of Evergreen web self checkout interface, i think. |
| 14:06 |
bshum |
If there's a username regex or something, it'll try to do that. Or was it barcode regex |
| 14:07 |
bshum |
Oh, duh |
| 14:07 |
bshum |
What am I reading |
| 14:07 |
* bshum |
scrolls up and laughs |
| 14:07 |
dbs |
bshum++ # for the lulz |
| 14:07 |
bshum |
RFID stuff gotcha |
| 14:07 |
* bshum |
goes back to making new friends through shared love of Linux over Windows |
| 14:08 |
dbs |
yeah, our cards don't have human-visible barcodes, so we'll just require cards in hand then :) |
| 14:09 |
gmcharlt |
Dear patron: please type in this invisible numbers... ;) |
| 14:09 |
Dyrcona |
Don't worry bshum, if Lennaert and friends have their way, Linux will be just as shitty as Windows by this time next year, but you can watch a dancing penguin while your system boots! |
| 14:10 |
dbs |
systemctl reload Dyrcona.service |
| 14:11 |
Dyrcona |
systemctl: command not found |
| 14:11 |
* Dyrcona |
was reading about Plymouth this morning..... |
| 14:11 |
dbs |
journalctl --user | grep -vi bsd |
| 14:13 |
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| 14:19 |
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| 14:19 |
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| 15:20 |
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| 15:52 |
bshum |
mceraso++ # :) |
| 15:52 |
berick |
mceraso++ |
| 15:55 |
akilsdonk |
mceraso++ Congratulations! |
| 16:02 |
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| 16:07 |
rhamby_ |
mceraso: Congrats! |
| 16:07 |
rhamby_ |
mceraso++ |
| 16:20 |
kmlussier |
mceraso++ |
| 16:22 |
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| 16:38 |
JBoyer |
Just catching up on the email list |
| 16:38 |
JBoyer |
mceraso++ |
| 16:38 |
JBoyer |
! |
| 16:39 |
rhamby_ |
Does this mean we can start volunteering mceraso for committees when she's not in IRC? |
| 16:49 |
Bmagic |
Does the SIP2 protocol support patron search? AKA patron doesn't have their card and needs to look themselves up. |
| 16:51 |
jeff |
no. |
| 16:52 |
jeff |
Bmagic: Does username as barcode help? |
| 16:52 |
Bmagic |
not in this case |
| 16:53 |
Bmagic |
it's all good, just thought I would ask. I think it's a question more about the protocol. |
| 16:53 |
jeff |
In that case, I pull out my phone and bring up my barcode. :) |
| 16:54 |
jeff |
Though I generally also have my license on me. |
| 16:55 |
jeff |
Bmagic: what is the use case, if you don't mind me asking? |
| 16:55 |
jeff |
(since you said "not in this case", i'm wondering about details) |
| 16:55 |
Bmagic |
The patron has no clue what their card number is let alone the username (which is probably the same) - and this branch uses self check machines |
| 16:56 |
Bmagic |
it looks like the answer is - go ask your friendly helpful library staff |
| 16:56 |
jeff |
Ah. Simple use case. Got it. :-) |
| 16:56 |
jeff |
indeed! |
| 16:56 |
jeff |
Who will hopefully apply local policy with regard to confirming your identity. :-) |
| 17:51 |
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