| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:15 |
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| 07:23 |
kmlussier |
@weather |
| 07:23 |
pinesol_green |
kmlussier: Seekonk, MA :: Snow :: 29F/-2C | Wind Chill: 19F/-7C | Monday: Snow this morning will taper off and give way to cloudy skies this afternoon. High 42F. Winds NW at 10 to 15 mph. Chance of snow 80%. Snowfall around one inch. Monday Night: Clear skies. Low 28F. Winds WNW at 10 to 15 mph. |
| 08:02 |
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| 08:14 |
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| 08:16 |
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| 08:22 |
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| 08:47 |
rhamby |
@coffee |
| 08:47 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a cup of Romance by Paradise, and sends it sliding down the bar to rhamby |
| 08:48 |
kmlussier |
A cup of Romance? Wow! That's an interesting way to start your Monday. |
| 08:49 |
rhamby |
Sounds scandalous. I'm not a very scandalous person but I guess I can imagine I am if it's caffine content is high enough. |
| 08:50 |
kmlussier |
@coffee |
| 08:50 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a cup of El Salvador Los Planes Pacamara, and sends it sliding down the bar to kmlussier |
| 08:51 |
Dyrcona |
@tea |
| 08:51 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a pot of Honey Black Tea, and sends it sliding down the bar to Dyrcona (http://ratetea.com/tea/health-and-tea/honey-black-tea/7529/) |
| 08:58 |
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| 09:04 |
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| 09:42 |
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| 09:45 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Galen Charlton] clear slate of RELEASE_NOTES_NEXT entries - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=24da1cc> |
| 09:48 |
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| 09:54 |
berick |
@who loves a good scandal |
| 09:54 |
pinesol_green |
rhamby loves a good scandal. |
| 09:54 |
* berick |
bows |
| 09:55 |
Dyrcona |
There's a quote about scandal and tea that I can't quite remember at the moment. |
| 09:57 |
rhamby |
Love and scandal are the best sweeteners for tea? |
| 09:57 |
rhamby |
With some small variations that has been attributed to several different writers. |
| 09:58 |
Dyrcona |
rhamby: That's it. |
| 09:59 |
Dyrcona |
All I could find was the Congreve line "Retired to their tea and scandal, according to their ancient custom." |
| 10:02 |
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| 10:46 |
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| 10:50 |
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| 10:54 |
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| 10:54 |
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| 10:58 |
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| 11:03 |
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| 11:06 |
mmorgan |
@weather 01923 |
| 11:06 |
pinesol_green |
mmorgan: Danvers, MA :: Snow :: 30F/-1C | Wind Chill: 21F/-6C | Monday: Cloudy with snow showers mainly during the morning. High 43F. Winds WNW at 10 to 15 mph. Chance of snow 60%. Monday Night: A clear sky. Low 28F. Winds WNW at 10 to 15 mph. | Updated: 13m ago |
| 11:07 |
mmorgan |
A flock of robins outside my office window seem to be organizing to stage a protest. |
| 11:16 |
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| 11:16 |
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| 11:22 |
berick |
huh, a "round" of robins |
| 11:24 |
mmorgan |
Really? |
| 11:24 |
* mmorgan |
didn't know that |
| 11:25 |
berick |
first time using virt-manager's network install option today. (testing xenial). pleased at how simple it is. |
| 11:27 |
Dyrcona |
berick++ |
| 11:27 |
jeff |
where you're PXE booting a vm or other client, and installing from the network with a preseed.txt or similar so that you've got a zero-prompt install? |
| 11:27 |
Dyrcona |
I've mostly used virt-manager to fix a "busted" vm. |
| 11:28 |
jeff |
i suppose the "virt" in virt-manager probably points to the client being a vm, not "or other client" |
| 11:28 |
berick |
jeff: no, FTP install option. basically point it at http://ftp.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial/main/installer-amd64/ -- the rest of the process is the same as an ISO install. |
| 11:28 |
jeff |
ah. |
| 11:28 |
Dyrcona |
Or to get into one after changing ssh settings and forgetting to fix the key on the vm. ;) |
| 11:31 |
berick |
Dyrcona: normally I prefer the command line, but virt-manager made migrating from virtualbox too easy. |
| 11:32 |
Dyrcona |
berick: I usually use vm-builder. |
| 11:33 |
berick |
cool, i'll have to check it out. i've never heard of it. |
| 11:35 |
Dyrcona |
berick: I typoed the name, of course. It's vmbuild, no dash. |
| 11:35 |
Dyrcona |
vmbuilder |
| 11:35 |
Dyrcona |
I'll get it right one of these days. :) |
| 11:35 |
berick |
:) |
| 11:38 |
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| 12:00 |
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| 12:02 |
* tsbere |
has come up with a way to make AddedContent use B&T ISBNs, but isn't sure he likes it |
| 12:05 |
StomproJosh |
tsbere, I would be happy to test it out. |
| 12:09 |
tsbere |
StomproJosh: http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/user/tsbere/lp1559281_bt_isbns |
| 12:09 |
* tsbere |
dumped a link onto bug 1559281 as well |
| 12:09 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1559281 in Evergreen "Added Content: Allow fake ISBNs to be sent to providers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1559281 |
| 12:10 |
tsbere |
and I just realized it is lunch time. <_< |
| 12:12 |
gmcharlt |
StomproJosh: out of curosity, are you seeing many records that have the B&T fake ISBNs but which do not have UPCs? |
| 12:14 |
StomproJosh |
gmcharlt, I've only seen a few, we try to add the UPC if it isn't there to bypass this issue, I don't know how often that is needed though. |
| 12:18 |
jeff |
Sure would be nice if the Business::ISBN docs matched the code. |
| 12:20 |
jeff |
is_valid_checksum returns Business::ISBN::BAD_CHECKSUM for 9786316294241, but Business::ISBN::GOOD_ISBN if we set $Business::ISBN::country_data{631} as in tsbere's branch. |
| 12:22 |
tsbere |
jeff: And to think, I just kindof guessed as to how I should set it, found it worked on one test, and then made a branch. |
| 12:23 |
jeff |
lovely, if i run ->fix_checksum (which seems like a terrible idea in almost every case), the isbn value is not modified but now is_valid_checksum returns Business::ISBN::GOOD_ISBN |
| 12:24 |
jeff |
(that last was with no changes to $Business::ISBN::country_data) |
| 12:24 |
jeff |
at least at first glance, that behavior strikes me as a bug in Business::ISBN, but even if so, and if reported, we pretty much need to at least work around it for now. |
| 12:24 |
StomproJosh |
Hmm, I was getting a specific error about bad group code when I was playing with it before. |
| 12:25 |
jeff |
sure, that's returned by the ->error method |
| 12:26 |
jeff |
At least part of the goal in using Business::ISBN here was to prevent non-isbn values from being sent to the AC provider, especially where those invalid ISBN values might prevent an otherwise-correct UPC value from returning correct results. |
| 12:27 |
jeff |
But if we're preventing some other valid things... I'm torn. Also, annoyed at the behavior of Business::ISBN. |
| 12:27 |
jeff |
(and annoyed at B&T) |
| 12:27 |
tsbere |
Well, I threw my code out there. If people want it, yay. If not, I am not all that sure I like how I did it anyway. |
| 12:28 |
* tsbere |
won't be adding a pullrequest tag to launchpad, but won't complain if someone else does so |
| 12:34 |
dbs |
Quick reminder: what's the path where we should store local cover images? |
| 12:35 |
jeff |
by default, /openils/var/web/opac/extras/ac/jacket/{small|medium|large|/r/{bre_id} |
| 12:36 |
jeff |
er, /openils/var/web/opac/extras/ac/jacket/{small|medium|large}/r/{bre_id} but I suspect you get the idea |
| 12:36 |
dbs |
jeff++ |
| 12:38 |
jeff |
with 52k files in each dir, I'm starting to regret not hashing them. |
| 12:38 |
* gmcharlt |
notices for the first time that Business::ISBN has an xisbn method |
| 12:38 |
gmcharlt |
of course, that's now useless :( |
| 12:38 |
jeff |
i'm also very interested in general in throwing jackets behind a local nginx that caches for X hours and serving locally or falling back to pulling from evergreen. |
| 12:39 |
jeff |
gmcharlt: i heard a rumor that xisbn had a reprieve, but i didn't follow up on it. |
| 12:40 |
dbs |
jeff / gmcharlt: it's no rumour, it's true |
| 12:40 |
gmcharlt |
cool |
| 12:40 |
dbs |
http://www.oclc.org/developer/news/2016/xid-retirement-delayed.en.html |
| 12:41 |
dbs |
@rhyme it's not a tumour :: it's not a rumour |
| 12:41 |
pinesol_green |
dbs: well, that's what you get for not being a shell script |
| 12:43 |
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| 13:48 |
* dbs |
somehow did not find http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2.9/_including_locally_hosted_content_in_your_public_interface.html |
| 13:50 |
dbs |
dig++ |
| 13:51 |
* tsbere |
wonders if providing "mkdir -p" instructions on that page might be useful |
| 13:53 |
dbs |
Or should we just create the directories at install time? |
| 13:53 |
tsbere |
er.... |
| 13:53 |
tsbere |
How do we know bib IDs at install time? ;) |
| 13:53 |
tsbere |
Oh, wait, the bib id is a filename, not a directory name |
| 13:54 |
tsbere |
That at least makes it easier, but I am not sure. How far do we go? |
| 13:54 |
tsbere |
Just jackets? Summaries? etc |
| 13:57 |
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| 14:03 |
dbs |
tsbere: I was thinking we could create whatever we support. It's pretty scriptable :) |
| 14:24 |
* dbs |
wonders how sites deal with overdue fines on parts, as we start trying to use them. I guess just each piece accumulates fines separately |
| 14:26 |
dbs |
And I guess each part counts as one "item" towards the max-checkouts limit. Fun! |
| 14:27 |
mmorgan |
dbs: That's how we handle parts. They can circulate independently, so each accrues fines and each counts toward # checked out. |
| 14:29 |
jeff |
given a single barcoded item that is equivalent to two "parts", is that still true? you have two "parts" therefore you have two "things" generating fines/etc? |
| 14:30 |
jeff |
(we don't currently make any use of parts) |
| 14:30 |
jeff |
(not intentionally, at least) |
| 14:30 |
kmlussier |
Each part has its own barcode. I don't think you can have a part without a barcode. |
| 14:30 |
jeff |
ah. misunderstanding on my part. |
| 14:30 |
mmorgan |
What kmlussier said :) |
| 14:30 |
kmlussier |
jeff: What you're describing sounds more like conjoined items. But we don't use them, so I'm not entirely sure. |
| 14:31 |
mmorgan |
jeff: pun intended? |
| 14:31 |
jeff |
i thought that with parts you could have equivalent things, like "copy X at lib_A is disc 1 and 2" while "copy Y at lib_B is disc 2" |
| 14:31 |
jeff |
mmorgan: no, pun not intended -- good catch. :-) |
| 14:32 |
jeff |
and be able to say "i need disc 2" and get either copy X or copy Y, while copy Y would not meet the "i need disc 1" style request |
| 14:33 |
kmlussier |
jeff: That idea has been kicked around a bit. Smart parts |
| 14:34 |
jeff |
Since I was mistaken about that -- what is the current use case for parts? |
| 14:36 |
tsbere |
jeff: Technically in the background you could have something that can fill for multiple parts. In practice the interfaces don't let you have multiple parts on a single copy safely. |
| 14:36 |
tsbere |
jeff: Also, parts are, as far as I know, bib-level and as such global, then mapped to copies. |
| 14:37 |
tsbere |
Each copy can circulate, and once the checkout happens the part is no longer relevant, it acts like any other circulating copy. |
| 14:38 |
jeff |
okay, i think i get the current implementation now. thanks. |
| 14:48 |
dbs |
mmorgan: yeah, we're using parts to track "Charger" vs "Laptop". I suppose conjoined items would be more bibliographically appropriate, as the charger & laptop could then have separate bib records, but they're not truly conjoined so... heh. |
| 14:49 |
jeff |
heh |
| 14:49 |
dbs |
Our major hurdle came into play when we assigned the same level of fines to the laptop charger as we did to the laptop, then when both were late people got a double-sized fine from what was intended |
| 14:49 |
jeff |
in that specific case, we have chromebooks and chargers and headphones on distinct bibs -- with 10 hours of battery, most people don't check out a charger. :-) |
| 14:49 |
jeff |
dbs: ah, ouch. |
| 14:50 |
jeff |
no fines -- since they're in-building same-day for us, if you didn't bring it back it's not "late", it's "stolen" :-) |
| 14:50 |
dbs |
We bundle the chromebook + charger into a bag. And the bag doesn't have a barcode, come to think of it; I guess they could be free :) |
| 14:51 |
mmorgan |
We generally use parts for materials like dvds. Ken Burns Jazz disc 1 vs. Ken Burns Jazz disc 2, etc. |
| 14:51 |
dbs |
Yeah, makes sense |
| 14:51 |
jeff |
mmorgan: yeah, that was the most common item type where i'd seen them used, docs and examples, etc. |
| 14:51 |
jeff |
(and chatter in here) |
| 14:52 |
jeff |
though i think somewhere in the not-too-distant past someone admitted to (ab?)using parts for serials instead of using issuance holds. |
| 14:53 |
kmlussier |
C/W MARS and Indiana use parts for serials. I think StomproJosh might also. |
| 14:53 |
jeff |
we opted to circ our multi-disc DVDs (tv series and the like) for a longer duration, and not bother with parts. |
| 14:53 |
StomproJosh |
Yes, we use parts for serials. |
| 14:54 |
jeff |
StomproJosh: since you're here -- did you opt for parts because it allows for patron holds without the heavy lifting of cataloging serials in a serials-like fashion? |
| 14:54 |
jeff |
StomproJosh: and how many years of most serials do you have before you weed? |
| 14:55 |
mmorgan |
jeff: re: multidisc dvds, some of our libraries do that, too, but others break them up. There are lots of reasons why libraries choose one way or the other. |
| 14:56 |
StomproJosh |
Jeff, yes to the first question. We have each site deal with adding their magazines and the work to setup the proper serials module seemed to complex. We just wanted them to be able to add whatever they receive. |
| 14:56 |
* dbs |
honestly tried but didn't really find a lot of info on parts in the docs |
| 14:57 |
StomproJosh |
We have been creating a bib record per year of each title, and keep maybe 5 years. |
| 15:08 |
Dyrcona |
MVLC used parts for individual discs in a multi-disc set, such as for a television series. |
| 15:08 |
Dyrcona |
This way, the patron could checkout just disc 1 or disc 2. |
| 15:09 |
Dyrcona |
I said that in the past tense because it was decided in the last year or so to not use parts because of various issues caused by irregularities in cataloging practice. |
| 15:10 |
gmcharlt |
2.10.1 will come early: bug 1560174 |
| 15:10 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1560174 in Evergreen "Importing MARC records can fail in database upgraded to 2.10.0" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1560174 |
| 15:11 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona: How do you handle the multidisc sets now? |
| 15:11 |
Dyrcona |
mmorgan: I am not sure, actually. I think they circulate the whole thing as a piece. |
| 15:12 |
Dyrcona |
That is, you get the whole season. |
| 15:12 |
Dyrcona |
It caused too much confusion when different libraries were doing parts differently. |
| 15:12 |
* mmorgan |
nods. |
| 15:16 |
Bmagic |
gmcharlt bummer :( |
| 15:18 |
* Dyrcona |
doesn't generally test Vandelay. |
| 15:19 |
gmcharlt |
it appears that the upgrade script was created by copying and pasting some bits from a terminal that was 80 characters wide |
| 15:20 |
gmcharlt |
and, amazingly, one line was truncated there but ended up with the results being syntatically correct |
| 15:20 |
mmorgan |
:-( |
| 15:21 |
Bmagic |
oh wow |
| 15:23 |
Bmagic |
kmlussier: our resident search expert - Can the ampersand be innerchanged with the word "and" with no change in search results? I am finding that if the bib is cataloged with the & - then it wont turn up in title searches "and" |
| 15:23 |
kmlussier |
Bmagic: heh, I'm not sure I'll take the title of search expert. |
| 15:23 |
Dyrcona |
;) |
| 15:24 |
* tsbere |
can think of ways to do the &/and bit, but isn't sure about actually implementing them |
| 15:24 |
Bmagic |
hehe |
| 15:24 |
kmlussier |
Bmagic: But, no, I do not believe the ampersand and "and" are interchangeable. |
| 15:24 |
Bmagic |
ok, that is what I am finding in practice, but..... |
| 15:24 |
Bmagic |
keyword is a different story |
| 15:24 |
tsbere |
Bmagic: Without quotes keyword will say "is there an & or and in the entire record" basically, so... |
| 15:25 |
kmlussier |
Bmagic: Well, with keyword, you're more likely to have those instances of the term show up elsewhere, right? |
| 15:26 |
Bmagic |
tsbere: oh yeah, that is why it works in keyword - it becomes an operator? |
| 15:26 |
tsbere |
Bmagic: No, the question in keyword is more of a "does the word 'and' appear *anywhere* in the MARC?" |
| 15:27 |
kmlussier |
Bmagic: No, I think tsbere was saying what I said in another way. |
| 16:06 |
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| 17:28 |
Bmagic |
any idea's how items get a status of lost without a single circulation? Barring a direct DB update. |
| 17:29 |
Bmagic |
Anyone else have some examples? select count(*) from asset.copy where not deleted and status=3 and id not in(select target_copy from action.circulation) |
| 17:30 |
dbs |
579 here. Probably from migration |
| 17:32 |
Bmagic |
if any of those get checked in, there is a staff client error due to the code expecting to manipulate the associated billing on a circulation |
| 17:32 |
dbs |
Given that they date back over 7 years, I'm fine with an error getting thrown in that case :) |
| 17:32 |
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| 17:32 |
dbs |
(for us, naturally) |
| 17:33 |
Bmagic |
sure, we have 2 examples in our data from this month though. I am trying to come up with a reason |
| 17:33 |
Bmagic |
dbs: try this one |
| 17:33 |
Bmagic |
select date_part('year',edit_date),count(*) from asset.copy where not deleted and status=3 and id not in(select target_copy from action.all_circulation) group by date_part('year',edit_date) order by date_part('year',edit_date) |
| 17:36 |
dbs |
Most recent one is from 2013 for us |
| 17:36 |
Bmagic |
yeah, I am starting to think I should look at status_changed_time and not edit_date |
| 17:37 |
dbs |
Looks like we have 2 total copies since we migrated that have that. |
| 17:37 |
Bmagic |
it's fooling me. The example I have from 2016, had it's status changed in 2011 |
| 17:41 |
* dbs |
wonders if IRC search is known not-working: http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/evergreen/search/?nick=dbwells&q=datafield returns an "Internal search error" |
| 17:42 |
dbwells |
dbs: anything I can help answer, or am I just a test case? :) |
| 17:44 |
dbs |
dbwells: sorry, just a test case, I was trying to track down the xpath discussions from before |
| 17:44 |
dbs |
found them manually, but was surprised search was erroring out |
| 17:45 |
Bmagic |
google is handy for me |
| 17:45 |
Bmagic |
site: http://irc.evergreen-ils.org xpath |
| 17:46 |
dbs |
Bmagic: sure, but the internal search should either work or not be there |
| 17:46 |
Bmagic |
agreed |
| 17:47 |
dbwells |
grabbing 0975 |
| 17:47 |
dbs |
at least you didn't throw me a lmgtfy link |
| 17:48 |
Bmagic |
haha! |
| 17:53 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Galen Charlton] LP#1560174: fix MARC import for database upgraded to 2.10.0 - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=406ca64> |
| 17:53 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Dan Wells] LP#1560174 Stamping upgrade script - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=0d2b61d> |
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