| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 03:27 |
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| 08:10 |
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| 08:13 |
kmlussier |
good morning #evergreen |
| 08:32 |
jeff |
morning! |
| 08:37 |
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| 08:40 |
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| 08:54 |
kmlussier |
@coffee |
| 08:54 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a cup of Panama Esmeralda Especial, and sends it sliding down the bar to kmlussier |
| 09:12 |
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| 09:15 |
Dyrcona |
@tea [someone] |
| 09:15 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a pot of Bi Luo Chun Green Tea (Pi Lo Chun), and sends it sliding down the bar to jeffdavis (http://ratetea.com/tea/teavivre/bi-luo-chun-green-tea-pi-lo-chun/6490/) |
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| 10:02 |
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| 10:24 |
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| 10:47 |
jboyer-isl |
@coffee [someone] |
| 10:47 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a cup of Ethiopia Yirgacheffe, and sends it sliding down the bar to b_bonner |
| 10:47 |
jboyer-isl |
Everyone seems to have also taken the day off. |
| 10:48 |
Dyrcona |
Just quiet today. |
| 10:48 |
Dyrcona |
Installed some NCIPServer changes this morning. |
| 10:49 |
jboyer-isl |
Ugh. That reminds me. NCIP is the one thing I haven’t tested on our dev server yet. I need to get back on that. |
| 10:50 |
Dyrcona |
You might be interested in the changes I put in lately, then. |
| 10:50 |
jboyer-isl |
Dyrcona: Almost certainly. Also, is your NCIP testing script somewhere handy? |
| 10:50 |
Dyrcona |
One stops a hold from being placed if all of the eligible copies are checked out or can't fill the hold. |
| 10:51 |
Dyrcona |
The other creates a dummy call number if they don't send one in the AcceptItem message. |
| 10:51 |
Dyrcona |
Not publicly, but I'll throw it in a gist for you. |
| 10:51 |
* Dyrcona |
is amused that Android Studio can make gists. |
| 10:53 |
jboyer-isl |
Dyrcona: Thanks a lot. I barely poked at it and couldn’t tell if I was unsuccessful because I wasn’t sending the requests correctly or if things were just broken. |
| 10:58 |
Dyrcona |
jboyer-isl: https://gist.github.com/Dyrcona/57495a6e2bcf325da345 |
| 10:59 |
Dyrcona |
You have to supply a properly formatted request as the argument to the --message option and you'll need to specify your NCIP url as the argument to the --url option. |
| 10:59 |
Dyrcona |
My local copy uses a default value for the url so I don't have to specify it all the time. |
| 11:00 |
|
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| 11:01 |
Dyrcona |
I suppose some sample requests would be useful, eh? |
| 11:02 |
jboyer-isl |
Yes. I was looking around NISO’s site and it left some things to be desired. |
| 11:02 |
Dyrcona |
Well, so much is optional... |
| 11:03 |
jeff |
or mandatory but not implemented by the product you have to talk with. |
| 11:03 |
Dyrcona |
heh |
| 11:03 |
|
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| 11:06 |
Dyrcona |
I added a sample LookupUser request and added a comment on the fields you need to fill in. |
| 11:06 |
Dyrcona |
LookupUser for a known patron is a good smoke test. |
| 11:06 |
jeff |
there are a bunch of sample messages in the iNCIPit repo as well as several in some of the PDFs -- might have been the INN-Reach implementation PDFs from the ncip.info site. |
| 11:06 |
* jeff |
nods |
| 11:06 |
jeff |
few state-related dependencies. |
| 11:07 |
Dyrcona |
I was given sample messages by our vendor, but they were mostly NCIP v1 and then they said we're implementing V2.02. :) |
| 11:08 |
jboyer-isl |
Dyrcona: That’s great. I wonder if I’ll get the same set of 1.0 messages early next year. :-/ |
| 11:08 |
Dyrcona |
Oh, I think they have 2.02 version messages now. |
| 11:09 |
Dyrcona |
Of courses, they probably don't work without changes anyway. |
| 11:09 |
Dyrcona |
Courses of horses.... ;) |
| 11:10 |
Dyrcona |
I'll add some more sample requests. |
| 11:13 |
jboyer-isl |
Dyrcona++ |
| 11:14 |
csharp |
@motivate |
| 11:14 |
pinesol_green |
csharp: Down time is a fact of business when you're a poor 501c3 corporation. |
| 11:17 |
jboyer-isl |
Huh, is @motivate connected to despair.com? |
| 11:19 |
Dyrcona |
That would be @demotivate. :) |
| 11:19 |
jboyer-isl |
@demotivate |
| 11:19 |
Dyrcona |
Hmm. Thought I had a cancelrequestitem.xml hanging around, I guess that is still a perl script of its own. |
| 11:19 |
pinesol_green |
jboyer-isl: Ba ba ba dook Dook DOOK! |
| 11:19 |
jboyer-isl |
Looks we we need a new bot plugin! |
| 11:20 |
Dyrcona |
@plugin |
| 11:20 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: Try restarting apache. |
| 11:20 |
Dyrcona |
@list |
| 11:20 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: Admin, Alias, Assorted2, AutoMode, BadWords, Blame, Bugtracker, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, Dessert, Dunno, Encyclopedia, Games, Git, Herald, Insult, Karma, Later, LoveHate, MARC, Math, MeetBot, Misc, NickAuth, Owner, Praise, Quote, RSS, Seen, Time, User, Utilities, and Weather |
| 11:20 |
Dyrcona |
@seen sylvar |
| 11:20 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: sylvar was last seen in #evergreen 29 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 25 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <sylvar> It's a learning project for me... I'll learn how to do that with Illustrator |
| 11:21 |
Dyrcona |
pinesol_green: Oftentimes reloading Apache is all it takes. |
| 11:21 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: Message root @ server God....Universe going down for reboot.... |
| 11:21 |
pinesol_green |
In #evergreen, Dyrcona said: pinesol_green: Oftentimes reloading Apache is all it takes. |
| 11:23 |
Dyrcona |
Oh, yeah! That's why I don't have a stand-alone cancelrequestiem.xml example. |
| 11:24 |
Dyrcona |
I did it as a perl script so I could pass in agency, user barcode, and request ids as parameters. |
| 11:25 |
Dyrcona |
Anyway, I've added several empty messages to the gist. |
| 11:25 |
Dyrcona |
Including cancelrequestitem.xml |
| 11:25 |
jboyer-isl |
Cool.O |
| 11:26 |
Dyrcona |
There are many ways to send the data for most of these messages, and in most cases, NCIPServer supports at least two of them more or less correctly. |
| 11:26 |
jboyer-isl |
Since we’re on the subject and NISO’s site is being, well, their site. What needs to go in the FromAngencyId and To… fields? Are you specifying the min and max ou ids to search? (I would have simply assumed it would be ideal to search “everywhere” all the time...) |
| 11:30 |
Dyrcona |
jboyer-isl: It's supposed to be some agreed-upon code representing the agencies involved in the transaction. |
| 11:30 |
Dyrcona |
In our case, we were given a spreadsheet of the values to use. |
| 11:30 |
Dyrcona |
In NCIPServer's case, the values in the InitiationHeader sub fields don't matter. |
| 11:31 |
jboyer-isl |
I can understand that for most messages, but LookupUser doesn’t seem like a transactional thing, so it’s confusing. |
| 11:31 |
Dyrcona |
They get swapped and spit back at the sender without any processing. |
| 11:31 |
jboyer-isl |
Dyrcona: Ah, well that makes things much simpler, heh. |
| 11:31 |
Dyrcona |
For the other AgenyId fields, they are typicall the target org. unit. |
| 11:31 |
jeff |
the to/from is not a range, but more of a recipient/sender thing. |
| 11:32 |
Dyrcona |
Basically, your shortnames will work, and you'll need to get your vendor to use those when addressing your server. |
| 11:32 |
jeff |
in MeLCat, it's codes that have meaning in the MeLCat system. we have an "agency code" |
| 11:33 |
Dyrcona |
jboyer-isl: If you're interfacing with the same software that we do, and I think you are, then you'll provide a list of your agencies and their codes. |
| 11:34 |
Dyrcona |
NCIPServer does not presently support mapping a vendor code to a shortname, but that could be added as a new feature. |
| 11:34 |
jboyer-isl |
Yeah, it’s the same stuff. We’re still at the “Here, sign this” phase so all of the interesting stuff is a couple months out. |
| 11:35 |
Dyrcona |
After making changes, one of the first things I do, is send a LookupUser request with my barcode. |
| 11:35 |
Dyrcona |
That will tell me if things are basically working, or if I really botched something. |
| 11:35 |
jboyer-isl |
I might even make that a daily (ish) icinga check, even though I don’t plan to modify it much. |
| 11:38 |
Dyrcona |
It's a good test for configuration changes, etc. |
| 11:39 |
jboyer-isl |
Hmm. I need to go over all of the set up again, I’m assuming that a Dancer stack trace isn’t ever the expected output. :-/ |
| 11:40 |
Dyrcona |
No, but if you look closely enough it can point to what is wrong. |
| 11:41 |
Dyrcona |
I've not documented this, but you could run this as a stand-alone dancer app on a vm with OpenSRF and Evergreen backend installed in what I call "client mode." |
| 11:41 |
Dyrcona |
I did my initial development and testing with Dancer listening on its own port on my development vm. |
| 11:42 |
jboyer-isl |
Bah, views is still pointing to the default (/home/chrisc/…) That’s likely related, even though I should have things set correctly. |
| 11:42 |
Dyrcona |
Yeah. that would make it hard to find the templates. |
| 11:43 |
* Dyrcona |
makes a note to autoconfiscate the installation some day or use Makefile.PL. |
| 11:44 |
* Dyrcona |
likes that neologism: autoconfiscate.... |
| 11:46 |
Dyrcona |
One day rangi and I will work out the differences between our branches, too. One day.... |
| 11:47 |
* Dyrcona |
stares wistfully into the distance. |
| 11:50 |
jeff |
...and thus began the Standards Unification War |
| 11:51 |
Dyrcona |
heh. |
| 11:51 |
Dyrcona |
Oh. I just rembered.... The FromAgencyId/AgencyId from the InitiationHeader is used in one place under certain circumstances. |
| 11:52 |
Dyrcona |
If you get an AcceptItem with no CallNumber, the FromAgencyId is stripped of all text up to and including the last colon, and the result is concatenated with the RequestId to make a dummy call number. |
| 11:53 |
Dyrcona |
If either of those fields are missing or empty, then copy barcode is used as the call number label. |
| 11:57 |
jboyer-isl |
Ah, I appear to have left myself a note sometime ago: <!-- REPLACE WITH BETTER SAMPLE IN ~ --> |
| 11:57 |
jboyer-isl |
Should probably look into that. |
| 12:08 |
jeff |
heh |
| 12:16 |
mmorgan |
We're getting reports where some staff placed holds are getting no notification options set. Anyone else seeing this? |
| 12:16 |
mmorgan |
We have phone notification selected by default (and hidden), so there should at least be a phone notification set. |
| 12:20 |
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| 12:20 |
kmlussier |
mmorgan: Did this just start happening? |
| 12:21 |
jeff |
mmorgan: "and hidden"? |
| 12:21 |
mmorgan |
kmlussier: It's somewhat recent. Scattered reports in the past few weeks. |
| 12:22 |
mmorgan |
jeff: Hidden from view on the hold request form. So it's always selected and patrons (and staff) can't change it. |
| 12:23 |
jeff |
just as long as the html elements are still present... i'm pretty sure removing them would result in zero holds having phone notification enabled. |
| 12:23 |
jeff |
if the hiding is not a recent change, then it might not be the issue. |
| 12:23 |
tsbere |
mmorgan: What hold types? If they are all, say, copy holds then it could be the interface they are using. |
| 12:24 |
jeff |
there are/were at various times issues where staff prefs were used in place of user prefs, but i think (with the exception of pickup library issues) those are long ago problems. |
| 12:24 |
mmorgan |
jerff: Right. Most holds do have the phone as they should, and the hiding is not a recent thing. |
| 12:25 |
jeff |
i'm still liking the idea of "the patron prefs at time of hold becoming available for pickup are what drive the notification methods", but that's a bit change, and not at all helpful to your current issue. |
| 12:25 |
mmorgan |
tsbere: All title holds that I see so far. |
| 12:26 |
tsbere |
It was a thought at least. |
| 12:26 |
kmlussier |
mmorgan: So you're saying most of the holds are displaying notification options? Any chance the place hold tpac file got changed on one brick? |
| 12:26 |
* kmlussier |
is grasping at straws |
| 12:26 |
tsbere |
mmorgan: Is there a specific staff member involved with the ones lacking the notification options? |
| 12:28 |
mmorgan |
kmlussier: Hm. That's a thought. I'll definietly check that. tsbere: A variety of staff members at a variety of libraries. |
| 12:29 |
tsbere |
mmorgan: Have you checked to see if any of the *patrons* have "empty" (but set) default phone numbers? |
| 12:33 |
mmorgan |
tsbere: So, that would be in actor.usr_setting, opac.default_phone, right? Will give that a look. |
| 12:33 |
tsbere |
mmorgan: Probably want to double-check their day phones as well. |
| 12:35 |
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| 12:40 |
mmorgan |
I see a few default_phone fields with "" or " " as the value. I'll check the users in question |
| 12:40 |
Bmagic |
I just installed 2.9.1, in the patron billing interface, I right click an outstanding bill, and the option for "adjust to zero" is a blank menu item in the middle of the menu. It's like the language file isn't loaded or something. Any ideas? |
| 12:50 |
mmorgan |
So first few users I checked don't have an entry for opac.default_phone and they do have phone numbers in their records. |
| 12:50 |
* mmorgan |
runs out to lunch, will resume pondering later. |
| 13:09 |
* dbs |
forgot how much he dislikes 035 fields with values like "(Sirsi) ocn809032917" |
| 13:10 |
jeff |
yeah... our top-of-tree shortname is still the pseudo-consortium that we are no longer a part of. |
| 13:10 |
jeff |
and of course that same shortname is in use in at least one other (possibly two other) systems still. |
| 13:12 |
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| 13:15 |
* berick |
wonders if anyone ever uses --load-concerto-sample instead of --load-all-sample |
| 13:15 |
* Dyrcona |
checks. |
| 13:16 |
Dyrcona |
My concerto script uses --load-all-sample. |
| 13:17 |
berick |
thanks, Dyrcona |
| 13:17 |
Dyrcona |
yw |
| 13:21 |
Dyrcona |
Hah. Just noticed --update-config appears twice in that scripts as arguments to eg_db_config. |
| 13:23 |
* dbs |
wonders if we're doing something wrong in acq, as the call number / barcode on the acq side attached to POs still show ACQ945 but have real values on the OPAC side |
| 13:25 |
berick |
dbs: if the real copies received their call number labels and barcodes after they were generated from ACQ copies, we don't go back and modify the ACQ copies to reflect change in the real copies |
| 13:25 |
berick |
what you're seeing is expected |
| 13:54 |
kmlussier |
@quote random |
| 13:54 |
pinesol_green |
kmlussier: Quote #2: "<tsbere> We need more quotes" (added by berick at 11:24 AM, February 17, 2011) |
| 13:58 |
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| 13:59 |
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| 14:01 |
Dyrcona |
@friday |
| 14:01 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: Have you tried throwing it across the room? |
| 14:01 |
Dyrcona |
That worked, actually. |
| 14:01 |
Dyrcona |
A variation of percussive maintenance. |
| 14:05 |
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| 14:13 |
kmlussier |
miker: Would you be able to give me a layman's explanation of what #CD_selfPlusOne does? |
| 14:15 |
miker |
kmlussier: in evergreen, you shouldn't use it. it'll end up reversing the order I believe. we do what it does at a different layer |
| 14:16 |
miker |
but, to answer the question, it just shifts the numeric value to a number between 0 and 1 |
| 14:16 |
kmlussier |
OK, layman's explanation is "don't touch it." Got it. :) |
| 14:16 |
miker |
heh |
| 14:16 |
miker |
well, it might be worth experimenting with ... I take back the "reverse" stuff |
| 14:16 |
miker |
but, yeah, I wouldn't worry about touching it |
| 14:17 |
Stompro |
Since there was just some hold notification talk, does anyone know if it is a feature or a bug that no notification options are set when a forced hold is placed? |
| 14:18 |
miker |
Stompro: because with a normal hold you have the option of choosing notification settings. you don't with a force hold (or a recall hold) |
| 14:18 |
miker |
so, instead of assuming notification of any particular type, we err on the side of not guessing |
| 14:19 |
miker |
"when in doubt, don't guess what the user wants", IOW |
| 14:20 |
Stompro |
Thanks, I just wanted to make sure that was the intended result. We have been using forced holds to place holds on ILL items that we receive, because we don't want those items to be requestable by anyone else. So customers never get notifications about those items. |
| 14:21 |
Stompro |
But it sounds like we need to go back to letting ILL items be holdable so we can place holds normally. |
| 14:26 |
Dyrcona |
And to relate force holds to NCIPServer: It can be configured to place force holds on incoming ILL copies, and it will notify the patron if they have the defaults, etc. configured for the OPAC. |
| 14:26 |
Dyrcona |
But I believe the general use case for force and recall holds was, "We want that copy back in the library," and using it for ILL was a "bonus." |
| 14:36 |
bshum |
Stompro: One could configure hold rules to allow requestor groups who are staff to place those holds for the given user groups |
| 14:37 |
bshum |
And leave deny hold rules for user group / requestor who are just regular patrons. |
| 14:37 |
bshum |
That way it only allows staff to make those holds. Not regular users. |
| 14:37 |
kmlussier |
bshum++ |
| 14:40 |
Stompro |
bshum++ thanks |
| 14:41 |
Stompro |
Dyrcona++ thanks for the NCIPServer info, that would work great if/when we use NCIP. |
| 14:41 |
Dyrcona |
bshum++ |
| 14:41 |
Dyrcona |
;) |
| 14:42 |
* Dyrcona |
is distracted by the demolition going on near his office. |
| 14:43 |
Stompro |
miker++, thanks for confirming how it is supposed to work. |
| 14:43 |
miker |
no :) |
| 14:43 |
miker |
er |
| 14:44 |
miker |
np. thanks, autocorrect |
| 14:45 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 14:45 |
berick |
heh |
| 14:47 |
jeff |
"thanks, autodidact!" |
| 14:47 |
jeff |
<autocorrect> I learned it from YOU! |
| 15:15 |
gmcharlt |
heh |
| 15:20 |
* mmorgan |
almost wishes other parts of life could have autocorrect. On second thought, results there would likely also be less than ideal. |
| 15:26 |
dbs |
berick: okay, thanks for that clarification |
| 15:37 |
kmlussier |
miker: I think you've mentioned this in channel before, but I can't find it. Is there a way to see how a score is calculated for a particular record on a search? |
| 15:38 |
miker |
kmlussier: you can run the core query by hand |
| 15:41 |
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| 17:00 |
mmorgan |
Have a good weekend, all! |
| 17:01 |
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| 17:16 |
kmlussier |
Have a nice weekend #evergreen! |
| 17:20 |
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| 18:05 |
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| 21:12 |
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