Evergreen ILS Website

IRC log for #evergreen, 2015-08-07

| Channels | #evergreen index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary | Join Webchat

All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
00:58 phasefx @later tell Dyrcona the live tests happen on a near pristine snapshot of wheezy and runs all the tests
00:58 pinesol_green phasefx: The operation succeeded.
02:53 sarabee joined #evergreen
03:27 gsams joined #evergreen
06:30 b_bonner_ joined #evergreen
06:32 gdunbar joined #evergreen
06:41 * kmlussier yawns
06:49 b_bonner joined #evergreen
06:49 remingtron joined #evergreen
06:49 jcamins joined #evergreen
06:49 BigRig joined #evergreen
06:49 rashma joined #evergreen
06:49 csharp joined #evergreen
07:20 kmlussier heh...half the 2.8 documentation I was signed up for has already been done by other people. :)
07:21 kmlussier other_people++
07:39 mrpeters joined #evergreen
07:45 ericar joined #evergreen
07:57 rjackson_isl joined #evergreen
08:05 rlefaive joined #evergreen
08:29 Shae joined #evergreen
08:31 rlefaive joined #evergreen
08:34 mmorgan joined #evergreen
08:37 Dyrcona joined #evergreen
08:45 maryj joined #evergreen
08:51 kmlussier This is why documentation always takes me so long. I start with the intent of making two simple tweaks to one file and then end up spending my morning reducing line lengths, updating stale information, replacing screenshots, etc.
08:53 mmorgan kmlussier: Like shelving books in the Children's Room ;-)
08:53 kmlussier mmorgan: Yes, exactly!
08:58 rlefaive joined #evergreen
08:58 kmlussier @coffee [someone]
08:58 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of Guatemala El Injerto, and sends it sliding down the bar to bshum
08:58 kmlussier pinesol_green: bshum doesn't drink coffee. Give it to me!
08:58 pinesol_green kmlussier: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
08:58 pinesol_green kmlussier: http://images.cryhavok.org/​d/1291-1/Computer+Rage.gif
08:59 mmorgan @coffee kmlussier
08:59 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of Kenya Ndaroini Microlot, and sends it sliding down the bar to kmlussier
08:59 kmlussier mmorgan: Thank you!
09:00 mmorgan @weather 01923
09:00 pinesol_green mmorgan: The current temperature in Danvers, Danvers, Massachusetts is 74.3°F (8:59 AM EDT on August 07, 2015). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 61%. Dew Point: 60.8°F. Pressure: 29.94 in 1014 hPa (Falling).
09:00 mmorgan I don't see any clouds. It's too nice to be inside. :-(
09:04 kmlussier It is, but I get to spend all of next week outside, so I'm happy to suffer through today. :)
09:05 kmlussier It better not rain next week.
09:05 mmorgan vacation++
09:05 kmlussier And I see rain in the forecast for Tuesday and Wednesday. Figures.
09:13 Stompro mmorgan, have you started on the release notes for bug 1124498, I also started on that but forgot to assign it.
09:14 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1124498 in Evergreen "Wishlist: Patron notification via email when card is about to expire" (affected: 6, heat: 40) [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124498 - Assigned to Michele Morgan (mmorgan)
09:15 mmorgan Stompro: I was actually working on final testing to sign off. You are welcome to the release notes :)
09:18 Stompro mmorgan, Wonderful, I hope your testing goes well.
09:18 kmlussier mmorgan++ Stompro++
09:19 kmlussier Stompro: I think MVLC might do some of the things you described in your email with staff clients for test servers. tsbere might be able to answer your questions. I don't think he's around this week.
09:21 * mmorgan is also interested in that info. I often find a need to run 2 clients simultaneously on the same workstation.
09:21 kmlussier I use MVLC's servers quite a bit for testing. Icons for the clients that access the test servers are a different color and they don't share settings with the other clients on my local machine.
09:21 * kmlussier has many, many clients on her local machine.
09:22 Stompro kmlussier, great, any guidance would be appreciated.  I'll send him an email if I don't hear from him.
09:22 kmlussier mmorgan: Yes, that's what I like about testing on MVLC's servers. I can have two or more clients at the same time. tsbere also configured the clients for the MassLNC VMs to work the same way.
09:23 kmlussier tsbere++ #for general wizardry
09:24 mmorgan Yes, I noticed that. I can run a MassLNC client concurrently with a NOBLE client, but not a NOBLE Production along with a NOBLE training client.
09:25 mmorgan Stompro: We will just change the hostname when the different servers are running the same version of Evergreen, but often our servers are on different versions.
09:27 Stompro mmorgan, I think you can run multiple instances at the same time by enabling multi profile mode and multi-instance mode  -  http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?i​d=mozilla-devel:building_the_staff_clien​t#multiple_workstations_on_one_install
09:28 Stompro Add -P and -no-remote to your client shortcut.
09:30 mmorgan Stompro: we use -profilemanager all the time. I'll have a look at -no-remote, though.
09:34 Stompro I just wanted to make it super easy for staff to connect to the training/testing server, without needing to change the hostname, to take out a step where mistakes can be made.  I'm just worried about staff accidently thinking they are are production when they are on testing and vice versa.  Maybe adding a prefix to all usernames on the test system would help.
09:35 mmorgan Stompro++ You made my day!
09:42 Stompro Did the -no-remote work?
09:44 mmorgan Yes! I now have 2 clients open at the same time :) Not sure how I missed that detail, but am happy to know it now!
09:44 kmlussier Stompro: I don't know if it helps to see one of those clients in action, but the one we make available on the community demo page does just that. http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwik​i/doku.php?id=community_servers
09:50 Stompro kmlussier++, that does help, that is exactly what I want to happen.  It has it's own install directory, and it's own profile directory under %appdata%/openils/.  I'll definately check back in with tsbere when he gets back.
10:12 Dyrcona So, "Show Last Few Circulations" is actually sel_patron.... Yeah, that makes sense.
10:12 * Dyrcona is feeling bitchy today, so don't pay any attention to him.
10:14 kmlussier @bartender Dyrcona
10:14 * pinesol_green fills a pint glass with Anchor Summer Beer, and sends it sliding down the bar to Dyrcona (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/28/2550/)
10:16 Bmagic Has anyone out there moved a branch from one system to another after years of history?
10:19 Bmagic Is it better to create a new branch under the new system and move all of the call numbers?
10:23 Dyrcona kmlussier: Thanks.
10:24 Dyrcona The pizza joint across the street sells beer. I may just have my lunch on their premises today.
10:25 Dyrcona Bmagic: So, your call numbers are owned at the system level?
10:26 Dyrcona Bmagic: Just changing the parent ou in the org tree and then running autogeh.sh -u should work. If call numbers are owned at the system level, you'll want to do something about moving copy call numbers and creating new ones when necessary.
10:40 maryj joined #evergreen
10:41 Bmagic Call numbers are owned by the branch
10:41 Bmagic Ok, that is whay I thought, just changing the parent OU should do it with autogen. Sounds easy enough
10:42 Bmagic /whay/what
10:42 Dyrcona You might have some memcached issues, so I'd wait and do it in the middle of the night when you can restart memcached without wrecking too much.
10:45 Dyrcona I'd also suggest trying it on a test/training system first, just to make sure.
10:50 * kmlussier is spending more time re-learning AsciiDoc conversion than writing documentation.
10:50 csharp Bmagic: yes, we've moved a branch from one parent to another  - it's not a big deal - just move it and run autogen (though you might schedule it after business hours)
10:51 csharp all holdings and patrons, etc. remain intact
10:51 Bmagic csharp++ Dyrcona++
10:53 Bmagic Another unrelated question. I am wrestling with search indexes. We have the stock indexes which I am having trouble wrapping my head around. It looks like the four author entries in config.metabib_field would include authors found in the 700a
10:54 Bmagic based on this line "author";"other";"Other Author";"//mods32:mods/mod​s32:name[@type='personal' and not(mods32:role/mods32:rol​eTerm[text()='creator'])]"
10:54 RoganH joined #evergreen
10:54 Bmagic I think that would match this xsl: <xsl:for-each select="marc:datafield[@tag='700']​[not(marc:subfield[@code='t'])]">
10:55 Bmagic <name type="personal">
11:00 Bmagic So I just learned something - It appears that if the 700 contains a subfield "t" then NONE of the other subfields are indexed!
11:02 Dyrcona Based on that predicate, I would agree with you.
11:03 Dyrcona But, I could be wrong, too. ;)
11:03 Bmagic Is there a practical reason that we don't author index any other subfields in the 700 when there is a "t" present ?
11:03 kmlussier Bmagic: Ah, is that what's happening?
11:03 Dyrcona My guess is that might be a mistake.
11:04 kmlussier Yes, I don't think that was the intent at all.
11:04 Dyrcona But, I'd need to play with with some samples and don't have time at the moment.
11:04 Bmagic kmlussier: yep! That's what it looks like. I created a new 700 field on a test record and only created a subfield "a" and violla it was indexted
11:05 Bmagic I am assuming that the contents of config.xml_transform are lifted from some global standard?
11:11 Dyrcona Bmagic: http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/
11:11 Bmagic Dyrcona: right, and the xsl structure was downloaded somewhere or did the EG community create it from their guideline?
11:14 Dyrcona Bmagic: Think it was downloaded, but modified. LoC has  xsl for marc2mods and a couple of other formats.
11:15 Bmagic I found xsd but not xsl, I know very little about the language, so for all I know it was a search and replace http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/v3/mods-3-2.xsd
11:16 Dyrcona Bmagic: http://www.loc.gov/standards​/mods/mods-conversions.html
11:16 Bmagic oh! There we go
11:17 Bmagic It seems to me that a change in xml_transform is required as opposed to a change in metabib_field
11:17 Dyrcona I tinkered with newer mods versions in my dev system a year or more ago.
11:17 Dyrcona That what it looks like.
11:18 Bmagic I think I would like to do it for our system, can anyone suggest a change to <xsl:for-each select="marc:datafield[@tag='700']​[not(marc:subfield[@code='t'])]">
11:19 Dyrcona I'd need more context and have other things to do at the moment.
11:19 Bmagic that would result in including all subfields except "t" ?
11:19 Bmagic Dyrcona: no problem, I really appreciate your time!
11:20 Dyrcona possibly: marc:datafield[@tag='700']/marc:subfield[not @code='t']
11:20 Dyrcona off the top of my head and not sure the syntax is even correct.
11:20 pinesol_green [evergreen|Kathy Lussier] Documentation: Add 2.8 docs for void on claims returned - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=6177e5d>
11:21 RoganH joined #evergreen
11:24 Bmagic Dyrcona++
11:25 Dyrcona That worked?
11:25 Bmagic no, Just karma for helping when you are so busy. I will try that on a dev server
11:25 Bmagic it will take me a few minutes to get all the ducks aligned
11:25 Dyrcona ok. I would be surprised if that actually worked.
11:26 Dyrcona I don't remember if the not works in that location, and I'm not sure the xsl takes actual xpath at that point, but I think it does.
11:37 jihpringle joined #evergreen
11:39 Bmagic Dyrcona: your suggested lead me to the answer. This looks like it's working <xsl:for-each select="marc:datafield[@tag='700']​[not(marc:subfield[@code='t'])]">
11:40 Bmagic oops that is the original
11:40 Bmagic here is the fix
11:40 Bmagic <xsl:for-each select="marc:datafield[@ta​g='700'][marc:subfield[not (@code='t')]]">
11:40 Dyrcona I was about to say....
11:40 Dyrcona :)
11:40 Bmagic needs brackets and parens
11:41 Dyrcona maybe that's xpath 2? maybe not?
11:41 Dyrcona glad you found something that works.
11:41 Bmagic so, is this a loc issue?
11:42 Dyrcona Well, you'd have to look at the original xsl from LoC, 'cause I know one or two have been modified by Evergreen, but I'm not certain how.
11:42 miker Bmagic: it's following AACR2 rules ... author /with/ title isn't an added author, it's something like "related title"
11:42 Dyrcona Also, if was a LoC issue they may have fixed it by now.
11:42 miker we did not modify that rule in the xslt
11:42 Dyrcona Also, what miker said.
11:42 Bmagic miker: ok, so really, it is by design
11:43 miker Bmagic: yes, it's how 700 with 't' is supposed to be interpreted
11:43 Bmagic miker: I should tell my libraries to exclude the t if they want the alternat authors to be indexed?
11:44 miker for instance, looking at the movie for harry potter and the soceror's stone, you shouldn't have rowling as an "added author" but the book is a related title
11:44 Bmagic miker: that makes sense
11:44 miker it's available in other parts of the mods
11:44 miker under, IIRC, relatedItem
11:45 * miker disappears into the aether **poof**
11:48 Bmagic miker: that was the other question that I was asked, can we get the 700t's indexed for title?
11:52 miker http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods​/v3/mods-mapping.html#relateditem
11:56 Christineb joined #evergreen
11:57 * Bmagic waves at Christineb
11:59 mmorgan Is there currently a way to set up a circulation duration rule to make an item due "tomorrow at noon"?
12:00 * Christineb waves Hello :)
12:01 Bmagic miker++
12:01 Bmagic mmorgan: not that I know of
12:05 bmills joined #evergreen
12:08 * mmorgan was hoping someone found a creative way of doing something like that.
12:08 mmorgan It's cumbersome for staff to need to set the date and time at checkout.
12:08 kmlussier That's interesting. What's the use case?
12:09 mmorgan A museum pass that actually has to be returned.
12:09 kmlussier mmorgan: ah, yes, of course!
12:09 * kmlussier wishes every museum did the throwaway passes.
12:10 bshum I can't remember if hard due dates allow for time as well.
12:10 kmlussier bshum: That's a thought!
12:10 bshum Though that'd be a terrible thing to setup... one hard due date per day, that rolls
12:10 mmorgan Yeah. Makes it much easier for those of us that need to set up circ rules ;-)
12:10 bshum But it could be automated to constantly switch to a newer hard due dat every day.
12:10 * mmorgan was just looking at hard due dates and thinking the same thing as bshum suggests
12:11 mmorgan Can't enter the hard date values with a time in the client, but maybe directly in the database...
12:12 bshum Yep, the ceiling dates in the DB are timestamp
12:12 bshum So they could have hours in there too
12:12 bshum In theory
12:12 * bshum wanders away to go get on his plane.
12:13 * mmorgan and bshum are on the same wavelength :)
12:13 kmlussier bshum: Have a nice trip!
12:13 mmorgan Safe travels!
12:13 kmlussier Since we've has so many discussions lately around deleted items that aren't really deleted, I'll throw another question out there.
12:13 kmlussier The messages in the new message center don't really delete. They have a deleted column in the database.
12:14 kmlussier Is there any reason it would be a problem to purge those messages on a regular basis once they reach a certain age?
12:15 kmlussier I heard a concern from somebody that they might begin to pile up on a patron's records depending on the number of action trigger messages we choose to create.
12:18 bshum kmlussier: Don't messages contain circ related data sometimes?
12:19 bshum If so, I think deleting those at some point seems like a good plan.
12:19 kmlussier bshum: Yes, if they're generated by an overdue action/trigger or something like that.
12:19 * bshum hates flight delays...
12:20 kmlussier I imagine people do similar purges with the output from action trigger notices?
12:21 mmorgan We haven't done that type of purge yet, but it seems like we'll need to at some point, otherwise the tables just keep growing.
12:21 * kmlussier just remembered she's supposed to be doing some hack-a-way planning before going on vacation.
12:22 kmlussier mmorgan: Do you anonymize your circ transactions?
12:24 mmorgan Not currently.
12:28 bshum Sigh, 30 minutes delay so far. I hate it when this happens.
12:29 bshum mmorgan: I think once a hard due date entry is no longer referenced, it can be deleted from the table.
12:29 bshum Just in case you don't want 365 entries every year (roughly)
12:29 RoganH joined #evergreen
12:29 mmorgan bshum: Yes, I have done that. The old hard due dates can pile up even if there isn't one for every day :)
12:31 bshum Hehe, true.
12:36 mmorgan Hmm. Set up a hard due date with a ceiling date of 2015-08-08 12:00:00-04 and my due date is 2015-08-08 23:59:59-04
12:36 mmorgan I can't even edit the due date to noon :-(
12:38 bshum Maybe it's some trigger that pushes the dates to end/start
12:38 mmorgan Oh wait!
12:39 mmorgan I had a rule set in the circ policy table that wasn't hourly. I just switched that to an hourly rule, and now the due date is 8/8 at noon!
12:40 mmorgan So an hourly duration rule AND a hard due date that specifies a due time of noon works.
12:41 mmorgan Now to figure out how to update the hard due date every day...
12:41 mmorgan Anyway - progress :)
12:41 mmorgan bshum++
12:42 bshum mmorgan++ #  let us know how it all works out
12:49 bshum Boarding time, whee!
12:58 akilsdonk joined #evergreen
13:07 buzzy joined #evergreen
13:14 Dyrcona So, what state should a purchase order be in if the EDI order was sent? on order?
13:15 kmlussier Dyrcona: Yes. As soon as you activate the PO, it sets it to on order and is then sent in the EDI order message.
13:16 kmlussier Or, I should say, it is sent when the EDI pusher next runs. But you already knew that part.
13:16 Dyrcona And, does anything happen to EDI info if a purchase order is subsequently canceled?
13:17 Dyrcona Apparently, not.
13:21 kmlussier Dyrcona: No.
13:22 kmlussier Bmagic: I added a comment to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ever​green/+bug/1331174/comments/15
13:22 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1331174 in Evergreen "Long Overdue processing needs org unit settings separate from Lost Processing" (affected: 4, heat: 18) [Wishlist,Confirmed]
13:23 kmlussier Bmagic: I don't know what kind of time you have today, but if you were able to get that branch ready today, I could load it on a test server before I leave for vacation.
13:23 kmlussier mmorgan is interested in testing it.
13:25 * kmlussier is trying to get various billing bits in before she tackles billing documentation for 2.9.
13:25 kmlussier Which brings me to bug 1436797. Maybe that's one I can handle.
13:25 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1436797 in Evergreen ""grocery" term confuses frontline staff and patrons" (affected: 11, heat: 48) [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436797
13:41 Stompro dyrcona++ Thanks for enlightening me about the STAFF_CLIENT_NAME variable, that is just what I needed.  I'll add that to the buidling the staff client wiki page.
13:42 Stompro Dyrcona++ (getting the caps right)
13:42 Dyrcona Stompro: You can also change it after the fact in application.ini, btw.
13:42 Dyrcona I don't think karma is case-sensitive. :)
14:02 rlefaive joined #evergreen
14:07 Stompro Dyrcona, is there staff client make command that sets the install directory?  Or is that customized in windowssetup.nsi?
14:11 Dyrcona Sompro: I think it
14:11 Dyrcona heh.
14:12 csharp @eightball does Dyrcona *actually* think it?
14:12 pinesol_green csharp: It is possible.
14:12 Dyrcona Stompro: I think it might use the stamp id as the product tag in windowssetup.nsi, but I never actually install the Windows staff client, so I don't know for sure.
14:14 Stompro I don't thinks so, my STAMP_ID is set to rel_2_8_2 and the PRODUCT_TAG is set to '2.8' which gets combined with "Evergreen Staff Client" to set the default install.
14:17 Stompro Dyrcona, I just tested it out, and setting a custom PRODUCT_TAG in windowssetup.nsi does set the default install directory.  So I think I've got all the pieces figured out.  Thanks for your help.
14:18 Stompro I love having all the various options on how this stuff can work.
14:18 Stompro iii--
14:21 Dyrcona Stompro: Cool! Glad you find my ramblings useful.
14:21 * Dyrcona gets lost in the staff client code, again.
14:21 * Dyrcona thinks he's looking at one thing, turns out it is something else.
14:25 Bmagic kmlussier: I will take a look
14:36 akilsdonk joined #evergreen
15:00 rlefaive joined #evergreen
15:13 kmlussier mmorgan: When we were talking about bug 1436797 a few weeks back, you suggested that if we did remove the xact_type from the column picker options, that we might want to display billing type and billing note by default.
15:13 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1436797 in Evergreen ""grocery" term confuses frontline staff and patrons" (affected: 11, heat: 48) [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436797
15:13 kmlussier mmorgan: Where would you want to see those as defaults? In the main bill interface and the bill history?
15:16 mmorgan kmlussier: Yes, both of those places.
15:20 kmlussier Oops. Accidentally made the payment note display by default. Not as useful.
15:28 jlitrell joined #evergreen
15:59 * csharp decides to stop letting end users use software
16:00 jlitrell +1
16:03 kmlussier Well, I guess there would be no point to the software then. We can all go home!
16:07 csharp I've spent much of this week cleaning up messes, so I'm just grumpy :-/
16:10 kmlussier csharp: Sorry to hear that. :(
16:11 kmlussier On a more positive note, weekend is almost here.
16:13 mmorgan @dessert csharp
16:13 * pinesol_green grabs some of kmlussier's cookies for csharp
16:13 kmlussier Did I know my cookies had made into the dessert plugin?
16:13 kmlussier Y'all can have those for real if you go to the hack-a-way.
16:15 * mmorgan likes the ones made with saltines, butter, and chocolate.
16:15 mmorgan Though technically, I guess, those aren't really cookies.
16:16 kmlussier I should find something to bring that csharp could eat.
16:16 kmlussier mmorgan: They count. I'm bringing them.
16:16 kmlussier I couldn't bring them to Hood River because you need to keep them cold.
16:17 kmlussier mmorgan: I was surprised we hadn't filed that Located URI bug before. I remember having a conversation about it ages ago.
16:19 mmorgan Yeah. We've discussed it before, but it never made it to launchpad.
16:20 mmorgan I was just looking at the call number table today. We have 3.7 million deleted URI call numbers and 1.5 million undeleted URI call numbers.
16:20 mmorgan and the numbers keep going up because we keep loading records.
16:30 kmlussier Ouch!
16:47 kmlussier Heading out for the week. Have a nice week everyone!
16:48 mmorgan Have a great vacation!
16:49 kmlussier left #evergreen
17:07 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
17:08 mmorgan left #evergreen
17:17 mrpeters left #evergreen
18:09 rlefaive joined #evergreen
18:57 jlitrell joined #evergreen
20:36 jboyer-isl joined #evergreen

| Channels | #evergreen index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary | Join Webchat