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IRC log for #evergreen, 2015-04-30

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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03:52 * bshum generally agrees with dbs and tries to remind people about said older bugs.
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04:59 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
07:06 csharp bshum: argh - I hate launchpad
07:06 * csharp remembered that the issue had been discussed before, but didn't remember the bug and it didn't appear in search results
07:07 csharp so in the old bug I suggested the alternative of commenting out the lines in fm_IDL.xml, but I've changed my mind on that, obviously ;-)
07:13 csharp I agree with dbs's point about the newer bug masking the older one, so I marked the new one as a duplicate of the old
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09:19 mmorgan Hmm. Having trouble with webby again. I can login, but am getting blank screens. Just the menu bar. Is it just me?
09:31 kmlussier mmorgan: I don't get the home screen (just a flash and then it goes blank), but if I use the menu bar, I'm able to pull up interfaces.
09:32 kmlussier And if I click home, I get the home screen. Just not when I log in.
09:32 mmorgan OK, looks like it's behaving now. I just got the home screen.
09:33 mmorgan Someone hasn't had enough coffee. Maybe me, maybe webby, but looks good now! :)
09:34 kmlussier Whenever that happens, I always assume gmcharlt and eeevil are hard at work, bring us new stuff. :)
09:34 kmlussier @coffee webby
09:34 gmcharlt :)
09:34 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of Ethiopia Nekisse Espresso, and sends it sliding down the bar to webby
09:34 kmlussier I think pinesol_green needs a little coffee too.
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09:38 jeff oh! coffee!
09:38 jeff @who made coffee then left it sitting across the room
09:38 pinesol_green mmorgan made coffee then left it sitting across the room.
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09:43 mmorgan Hah!
09:44 * mmorgan actually for real just retrieved that exact cup!
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10:11 krvmga for copy statuses, we don't show Lost items.in the OPAC. it looks like this is having the unintended consequence of not showing a logged-in patron they have a Lost item on their account. Has anyone else experienced this?
10:12 jeff i have not.
10:12 jeff but have not checked lately.
10:12 jeff what version are you seeing that behavior on?
10:12 krvmga jeff: 2.7.4
10:13 jeff convenient for me to test!
10:13 Dyrcona Hmm. I could check right quick.
10:13 jeff krvmga: i suspect something other than the copy status is to blame, unless you've heavily tweaked your templates.
10:13 bshum I'm pretty sure I remember it displaying when we tested it.  Or rather, it displayed as a bill or something elsewhere.
10:13 bshum And basically that still showed in the same place as items out
10:13 krvmga jeff: our myopac templates are pretty vanilla.
10:16 Dyrcona Well, I just set one of my items to lost on my dev system and it doesn't show up in my list of items out in the OPAC.
10:16 jeff krvmga: tested by checking an item out to a patron and then marking it lost by patron. it is no longer visible under Items Checked Out, but is visible as a bill in the main myopac page at /eg/opac/myopac/main -- under Fines
10:17 * Dyrcona confirms it shows up under fines.
10:17 jeff I get a Title, Author, Checkout Date, Due Date, Date Returned shows (fines accruing) [er, they aren't actually] and there's a balance owed.
10:17 jeff (under Fines)
10:17 Dyrcona Same here.
10:17 jeff I do wonder if Long Overdue shows differently than Lost in the OPAC recently.
10:18 jeff since "Long Overdue" is in some cases the "correct" automatically-mark-this-gone tool now.
10:18 Dyrcona Well, the question is should lost items show in items out, or just under fines.
10:19 Dyrcona I'd be more likely to say Long Overdue should show up under items out.
10:19 Dyrcona Or more correctly, "Checked Out."
10:21 krvmga i think the issue has been reported to me incorrectly. i just looked at a test account and the Lost items show up but under Returned/Renewed it says (fines accruing) but under Balance Owed it's showing a replacement cost
10:21 krvmga i think the person who reported it might have gotten confused by "(fines accruing)"
10:22 Dyrcona Well it shouldn't say that. It is an error.
10:22 Dyrcona Maybe it should say "Lost" instead?
10:22 krvmga Dyrcona: is it a bug error or a configuration error on our part, do you think?
10:23 Dyrcona I'm guessing a bug.
10:23 Dyrcona I'd have to see how that is populated, but I'm guessing some combination of xact_finish and stop_fines is used.
10:23 krvmga if it's a bug, i'll report it. i just want to make sure it's not anything we're doing wrong.
10:24 Dyrcona I'd say find out from your staff what the real problem is, and then open a bug.
10:24 Dyrcona We can always set it to invalid if it turns out to be configuration. :)
10:28 krvmga staff are saying that the patron's Lost items show up under Fines (as previously mentioned) but, if a patron looks at Items Checked Out, the screen shows "You have no items checked out."
10:29 krvmga a patron's Lost item is still checked out to the patron, no?
10:30 krvmga maybe this is where not showing Lost in the OPAC is having the impact.
10:31 krvmga i'm testing by turning OPAC visibility back on for Lost for a little while
10:35 jeff i think that "(fines accruing)" is based simply on the lack of a checkin time.
10:35 jeff should be a somewhat easy fix to correct/clarify that.
10:49 jeff hah! there's actually a TODO in the template
10:50 krvmga jeff: lol
10:51 Dyrcona Not surprising. :)
11:00 krvmga ok, i have tested with showing Lost in the OPAC. Lost items are now OPAC visible in our catalog. logging out and logging in again as the test patron. Current Items Checked Out still shows "You have no items checked out". I'm guessing this means OPAC visibility of Lost status has no impact here.
11:00 Dyrcona Sounds like something else is going on.
11:10 kmlussier Although Evergreen considers lost items to still be checked out to the patron, as a patron I don't think I would expect it to show in Items Out. If it is truly lost, it's lost.
11:10 kmlussier I agree with Dyrcona that I would expect long overdue to still display there.
11:10 Dyrcona Yeah, I'm iffy on Lost.
11:14 Dyrcona To me, it kid of depends on if you're using the long overdue status or not.
11:14 Dyrcona s/kid/kind/
11:15 krvmga We are not currently using the Long Overdue status.
11:15 kmlussier Yeah. I think the problem is that, if you are not using long overdue, lost can have two different meanings. There's the case where something automatically goes to lost, in which case it might seem reasonable for it to display in Items Out.
11:16 kmlussier And then you have the case where a patron reports that the item is lost. In those cases, I think they would be annoyed if it continued to display in Items Out.
11:17 krvmga i wonder if there's an issue with Long Overdue and that's why we're not using it?
11:18 krvmga i wonder what would blow up if i turned it on?
11:19 krvmga :)
11:19 kmlussier It's fairly new. And I think there needs to be more discussion before you just turn it on. :)
11:19 krvmga yes, absolutely.
11:19 kmlussier I know it's something that has been discussed there previously.
11:20 krvmga in the meantime, i wonder if it's worthwhile to figure out how to show Lost under Items Checked Out?
11:22 kmlussier Also noting that, as of now, long overdues don't display there either. But maybe the code from bug 1440148 will address that particular issue.
11:22 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1440148 in Evergreen "Long overdue Items out TPAC OPAC display My Account" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440148
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11:56 jeff my gut instinct is to have LONGOVERDUE show in items checked out (probably ideally with a LONG OVERDUE indicator), and have a config option to have a distinct "Considered Lost" header listing lost-and-not-yet-fully-paid also
11:57 jeff and to fix the TODO on the inaccurate (fines accruing) on the Fines display.
11:57 jeff but I'd be interested in hearing what others think.
11:59 kmlussier That all sounds reasonable to me.
12:09 krvmga kmlussier: in our OPAC, under All Books, i want to exclude Large Print books (which have their own format filter). Other than adding the NOT, do you know if there's anything else we need to do to make that work?
12:09 kmlussier I wouldn't think so.
12:11 tsbere krvmga: I would recommend changing the label. If you exclude one type of book it is no longer "All", right? ;)
12:12 kmlussier I thought we had a "regular" books filter that was distinct from the all books filter. I guess it didn't make it into the seed data.
12:12 jeff "Some Books" should make things perfectly clear.
12:12 * kmlussier agrees with tsbere on changing the label.
12:13 kmlussier Would krvmga need to reingest too?
12:16 Dyrcona Don't think so.
12:16 kmlussier krvmga: If you look at the definition used for the book format icon, you might have a good definition for your everyday, print book that could be used as a search filter.
12:17 Dyrcona Except that in some cases, search_format and icon_format are different, i.e. come from different MARC fields.
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12:20 kmlussier Yeah, I think that's partially because an "All Books" format filter makes sense for people who just want any kind of book, but doesn't make as much sense as an icon, where you want to have a bit more granularity in what kind of book it is.
12:24 tsbere kmlussier: If you change the definition of the search formats you have to reingest. So adding a new one could be seen as just as much of a headache as changing an existing one.
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12:25 kmlussier tsbere: Thanks. krvmga: see what tsbere said above re regingest ^ ^
12:28 jeff search filter groups, on the other hand... do not require a reingest, but may not give you the same precision (not sure yet).
12:29 tsbere search_format:book -search_format:lpbook ;)
12:29 tsbere (or, if you want to go that route, you could probably just do the icon_format:book search....)
12:30 kmlussier jeff: We used to use search filter groups, and I believe they give the same precision. However, I think there may be some differences in search performance.
12:30 kmlussier It's something that we've been trying to evaluate.
12:32 kmlussier To be clear, though, the reingest required isn't a full reingest, is it?
12:34 tsbere Depending on things you can cheat the reingest, if you know what you are doing. >_>
12:34 * kmlussier thinks it just needs to be done on record attributes.
12:34 * tsbere knows enough to cheat it in this case ;)
12:34 kmlussier I know how to cheat a reingest when creating new keyword indexes. I'm not so sure how to do it with record attributes. :)
12:36 krvmga about the Lost display in the myopac Items Checked Out, it seems the answer at the moment is there's nothing i can do about it. does that sound right?
12:36 tsbere There are tricks, depending on what you are doing ;)
12:36 * tsbere doesn't know about said display issue though
12:37 krvmga kmlussier: i'm glad you said that because tim felt sure you had told him we could do stuff without a reingest for search format filters
12:37 krvmga and i had wanted to ask you
12:38 tsbere I could probably add a "nonlpbook" search_format fairly quickly/easily, all things considered, without need to do a full attribute reingest. Not sure why I would want to though. ;)
12:38 Dyrcona krvmga: On the lost not appearing in the checked out list, you are correct. It appears to be a code issue, so nothing you can easily do at this time.
12:38 krvmga Dyrcona: thanks :)
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13:01 * kmlussier learned something new from jihpringle's acq documentation today. :)
13:01 kmlussier jihpringle++
13:01 jihpringle :)
13:26 kmlussier jihpringle: Are your around to answer a question about fiscal year close out?
13:26 jihpringle sure
13:27 kmlussier I notice in the sitka docs that you have propagation listed as a separate step from doing a close-out where encumbrances or encumbrances/funds are rolled over.
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13:28 kmlussier But if the libraries have their funds configured correctly (ie rollover is selected for the ones where you want funds to rollover and not selected for the ones you just want  to proagate), that can all happen in one step. Is that right?
13:28 kmlussier Or do you find that the two do indeed need to be run separately?
13:29 jihpringle yes, it can all be done in one step but for some of our big libraries we found they had to propgate first and then run the rest or the system tied out
13:29 kmlussier Ah, I see.
13:29 kmlussier In this case, I do't think we have any libraries large enough to be a problem.
13:29 kmlussier Famous last words.
13:30 kmlussier jihpringle++ #Thanks for the clarification!
13:30 jihpringle np
13:31 jihpringle one thing to watch for is when you do dry runs, if your libraries do, the encumbrances amounts moved forward are not included in the dry run summary
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14:52 * bshum returns from meeting hell
14:52 bshum Or is it meetings hell?
14:52 bshum Or hell of meetings?
14:53 eeevil bshum: however you label it, it's the 7th circle
14:54 bshum jeff: So csharp wanted to get your opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1446860 prior to merging.  Any last words before I push it along?
14:54 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1446860 in Evergreen "staff users can edit their own accounts" (affected: 3, heat: 14) [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Chris Sharp (chrissharp123)
14:54 bshum Personally I'm on the side of begone crazy, so if you want to block it for your reasons noted, then we ought to put some real feedback down and push it off to the next review time
14:54 jeff bshum: ah, i had missed the comment from the bug.
14:57 Dyrcona Web browsers suck.
15:00 * dbs wonders how well Dojo 1.3 supports Microsoft Edge
15:02 * jeff is uncertain how best to describe the sound that he just involuntarily made in response to that comment
15:02 berick jeff++ same here
15:02 jeff we'll go with *snerk*
15:03 bshum "chortle"
15:03 jeff a *guffawful*
15:06 csharp I enter meetings hell tomorrow, but mine's worse cuz it's in COLUMBUS, GA
15:06 * csharp apologizes to all who have ties to that fair city
15:07 berick hah
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15:16 bshum Anyone have any strong opinions or eyeballs for https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1205061 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1125270
15:16 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1205061 in Evergreen "Need more "IF EXISTS" clauses in 2.3-2.4.0-upgrade-db.sql" (affected: 1, heat: 8) [Medium,Triaged]
15:16 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1125270 in Evergreen "Error updating function in 2.0-2.1-upgrade-db.sql for 2.3" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Low,Triaged]
15:16 bshum I wrote some minor patches to fix those two and even though I sure hope nobody is still on 2.0 or 2.3, it'd be nice to close out those bugs.
15:17 * bshum would have probably just pushed those already, but just checking real quick one last time.
15:30 csharp bshum: so to test bug 1125270, one would need to install 2.0 and run the 2.0 to 2.1 upgrade script?
15:30 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1125270 in Evergreen "Error updating function in 2.0-2.1-upgrade-db.sql for 2.3" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1125270
15:30 bshum csharp: If you were being thorough, I suppose yes.
15:30 csharp I mean, it's probably fine to push as-is
15:30 bshum But yeah, it looks good to my eye.  :)
15:30 csharp both branches look good to me as far as what my eyes see too
15:32 berick kmlussier: you mentioned recently something about 2.8.1 release notes.. do you have a branch for that somewhere?
15:32 kmlussier Yes, but it's only up to date as of Tuesday night.
15:33 berick kmlussier: that's fine, i'm mostly curious about the structure
15:33 kmlussier http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=workin​g/Evergreen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/head​s/user/kmlussier/2-8-1-release-notes
15:33 berick oh, pff, should have just looked ;)
15:33 kmlussier berick: Let me know if you have thoughts on improving the structure.
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15:34 kmlussier I did find a file in the git repository for 2.2.1 point release notes, and I used some language that was used there.
15:34 kmlussier I don't think they ever made it to the official documentation.
15:35 berick structure looks great to me.
15:35 berick i'd like to merge this before we cut the 2.8.1 release if possible
15:36 kmlussier OK, I think you pushed a commit yesterday that should be added.
15:48 kmlussier berick: All set
15:48 berick kmlussier++
15:48 berick i'll review and merge
15:49 pinesol_green [evergreen|Kathy Lussier] Add 2.8.1 release notes to the 2.8 release note file. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=01f89cf>
15:49 berick oh sweet, you merged.  nevermind :)
15:50 kmlussier berick: Sorry, I have a tendency to do that with doc commits.
15:50 berick +1 to that
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16:22 Dyrcona @karma security_team
16:22 pinesol_green Dyrcona: Karma for "security_team" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
16:22 Dyrcona security_team++
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