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IRC log for #evergreen, 2015-03-16

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
00:52 wlayton joined #evergreen
07:34 kmlussier Happy Monday #evergreen
07:36 jboyer-isl joined #evergreen
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09:08 jeff Morning!
09:09 tsbere Coming back from a vacation today means I am not getting anything done. Too many things to catch up on. <_<
09:11 Dyrcona hmm. takes a while to index 17.9 million rows.
09:11 Dyrcona Good thing I didn't load all 347 million.
09:29 yboston joined #evergreen
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10:10 MrMayor joined #evergreen
10:11 MrMayor Hey guys (and gals). Does anyone know if it is possible to add a custom circ duration rule to an entire permission group instead of items?
10:13 bshum MrMayor: I think gsams left you a later message over the weekend explaining it is possible.
10:14 bshum http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/​evergreen/2015-03-14#i_164181
10:14 bshum That's a link back to his comment from the logs
10:15 tsbere MrMayor: For the really short answer: Yes, if your system is configured properly for it. ;)
10:20 MrMayor I see haha. But I believe everything we have has item info so I don't know how much of a solution it might be. Nothing to do but give it a shot though.
10:20 tsbere MrMayor: If your weights are set to make permission group the most important field then it will trump anything else.
10:21 MrMayor Woulnd't those weights affect everything?
10:22 tsbere Depends. Permission group is, if I recall, near the top already on default weights.
10:24 Dyrcona I think it is second-most important after the location.
10:25 Dyrcona But, my memory has been faulty lately.
10:27 MrMayor Thanks for all your help guys. I was on the right track, just wasn't changing the permission group properly. I got it working correctly
10:36 dreuther joined #evergreen
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11:13 jeff well, this just starts to taste like xulrunner and remote xul: https://code.google.com/p/chr​omium/issues/detail?id=378566 "Block sub-resource loads from the web to private networks and localhost"
11:17 Dyrcona I *love* comment #40. That' really a common use case? A remote web site wanting to refer to local daemons?
11:19 jeff Seems like Opera already does similar to this with an interstitial to bypass the block (that you might have to trigger in wacky ways since it doesn't come up for background requests by default)
11:20 Dyrcona Yeah.
11:20 Dyrcona This sounds like it might bugger the web staff client, no?
11:23 jeff It has the potential to complicate web staff client communication with a locally-running hatch instance. Currently the web client makes a wss://localhost:8443/hatch connection to talk to hatch.
11:25 jeff from the submitter elsewhere: ``We also appreciate the concerns for legacy apps, local servers, etc. That's why we plan on supporting blocking UI overrides, opt-in by the page on localhost/private (maybe via CORS headers), and permanent exceptions via the command-line and enterprise policy.''
11:26 jeff more freeform discussion here, in addition to the comments in the bug: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9210484
11:27 jeff The nice thing is that in contrast with "kill remote XUL", we seem to have much more company in the camp of "please don't do this without a good path that supports our use case". :-)
11:27 jeff statements like "Dropbox does this, Github for Mac does this (and incidentally, my own home-grown solution for reading barcode scanners does this too)."
11:39 Dyrcona Stuff like that makes me think they choose the wrong platform.
11:40 vlewis joined #evergreen
11:40 Dyrcona If you want that local connectivity, you should have written a desktop application.
11:42 * jeff plays the "which email address and username did i use here" game
11:46 jeff ah, right. dokuwiki sets list-id header, so it gets auto-filtered.
11:54 Dyrcona kmlussier: My development VM is back up and running with fresh data and fresh code.
11:54 jeff added websockets localhost issue to dev agenda.
11:57 jeff oh.
11:57 jeff nope, added to wrong agenda. :P
11:57 jeff thought that didn't look familiar.
11:59 jeff reverted and waiting on edit lock to expire before adding to agenda for today
12:01 Dyrcona Thanks for the reminder. I forgot to add it to my calendar.
12:02 Dyrcona So, where's Chromium going once cod.google.com is shut down?
12:02 Dyrcona code, even. :)
12:02 kmlussier Dyrcona: Thank you very much!
12:02 Dyrcona I apparently own two projects on code.google.com and completely forgot about them.
12:03 Dyrcona kmlussier: You're welcome very much!
12:10 jeff I also updated the http://wiki.evergreen-ils.o​rg/doku.php?id=dev:meetings page so that "Next meeting" correctly shows today's upcoming meeting, moved Feb to Past, etc.
12:13 Dyrcona jeff: Will you facilitate the meeting, too? ;)
12:13 Dyrcona jeff++
12:19 jeff Dyrcona: first person to admit forgetting about the meeting runs it. :-)
12:19 Dyrcona Hah.
12:19 Dyrcona +++ATH0 laghajhre9bname/r9e0tq8*(*(HKNFo98​eroenakfjeru8Y*&Y*&%&^&%$^%&*&*&(O
12:20 Dyrcona *No Carrier*
12:20 Dyrcona A little joke for jeff.
12:44 collinanderson Dyrcona: chromium and android are exceptions to code.google.com shutting down
12:45 jeff ``Google will continue to provide Git and Gerrit hosting for certain projects like Android and Chrome. We will also continue maintaining our mirrors of projects like Eclipse, kernel.org and others.''
12:47 jeff heh. if you have any issues exporting your project from google code, you are asked to open an issue at code.google.com...
12:50 Dyrcona Well, seeing as I had forgotten about the two projects I have up there, I think I'll just let 'em die.
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13:46 krvmga i'm curious why the new icons in search results aren't showing up in our test 2.7.3 installation. Did i miss some configuration bit?
13:53 kmlussier krvmga: I know there was a bit of reingesting that went along with the MVF work. Do you know if that was done on your test system?
13:53 krvmga kmlussier: i do not know. i can find out tomorrow.
13:54 krvmga kmlussier: was a full reingest needed?
13:55 Dyrcona krvmga: You upgraded from what version?
13:55 user259205087017 joined #evergreen
13:55 DPearl joined #evergreen
13:55 krvmga Dyrcona: 2.5
13:56 krvmga local thinking seems to be no reingest was done
13:56 kmlussier I don't recall what type of reingest was required; I just remember that it was long.
13:57 Dyrcona You'll need to do a metabib.reingest_record_attributes on each record to get the pictures to show up properly.
13:57 Dyrcona You might as well do a complete reingest.
13:59 krvmga Dyrcona: thanks. that's very helpful
13:59 Dyrcona I recommend using this to do it: http://git.mvlcstaff.org/?p=jason/evergreen​_utilities.git;a=blob;f=scripts/pingest.pl;​h=28cb031b23f271ad7a36667402642ed85a93dd43;​hb=5ec82e38e8465bafc56fdb19961b1b78c49f5075
13:59 krvmga kmlussier++
13:59 krvmga Dyrcona++
14:16 julialima joined #evergreen
14:21 kmlussier @coffee
14:21 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of Honduras Fernandez Farm, and sends it sliding down the bar to kmlussier
14:21 kmlussier Hello julialima!
14:22 julialima kmlussier: Hello!
14:32 Dyrcona @swill
14:33 * pinesol_green grabs a can of Sparks and sends it sliding down the bar to Dyrcona
14:38 * jboyer-isl thinks a @topshelf plugin would be a good compliment to @swill.
14:40 jihpringle joined #evergreen
14:41 jeff @whose @topshelf is another person's @swill?
14:41 pinesol_green jeff: Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
14:41 jeff boring.
14:42 Dyrcona @who stole the cookie from the cookie jar
14:42 pinesol_green substack stole the cookie from the cookie jar.
14:47 akilsdonk joined #evergreen
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14:58 Bmagic joined #evergreen
15:03 gmcharlt so, dev meeting time?
15:03 jeff agreed.
15:03 Bmagic I was wondering
15:04 gmcharlt #startmeeting Development meeting, 16 March 2015
15:04 pinesol_green Meeting started Mon Mar 16 15:04:23 2015 US/Eastern.  The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:04 pinesol_green Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:04 pinesol_green The meeting name has been set to 'development_meeting__16_march_2015'
15:04 gmcharlt #info Agenda is http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/dok​u.php?id=dev:meetings:2015-03-16
15:04 gmcharlt #topic Introductions
15:04 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, ESI
15:05 Bmagic #info Bmagic = Blake GH, MOBIUS
15:05 DPearl #info DPearl = Dan Pearl, C/W MARS
15:05 julialima #info julialima = Julia Lima. UI Style Guide (OPW), Argentina.
15:05 Dyrcona #info Dyrcona = Jason Stephenson, MVLC
15:05 jeff #info jeff = Jeff Godin, Traverse Area District Library (TADL)
15:05 dbwells #info dbwells = Dan Wells, Hekman Library (Calvin College)
15:05 remingtron #info remingtron = Remington Steed, Hekman Library (Calvin College)
15:06 bshum #info bshum = Ben Shum, Bibliomation
15:06 dbs #info dbs = Dan Scott, Laurentian University
15:06 dbs (land o' the flaky wireless)
15:06 gmcharlt dbs: Thanks, Harper!
15:06 kmlussier #info kmlussier is Kathy Lussier, MassLNC
15:08 gmcharlt ok, moving on
15:08 gmcharlt #topic OpenSRF release
15:08 gmcharlt not much specifically to say at the moment, beyond http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/O​penSRF.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/collab​/gmcharlt/better_osrf_control_diagnostic and websocket port standardization being on the radar
15:09 * gmcharlt notes that csharp has an update to the Fedora instructions in the working repo as well
15:09 eeevil #info eeevil = Mike Rylander, ESI
15:09 phasefx #info phasefx = Jason Etheridge, ESI
15:10 bshum Does that sort of change warrant 2.5? I'm not sure the particulars of how we decide versioning for OpenSRF.
15:11 gmcharlt bshum: it could, though I lean more towards those changes warranint just a 2.4.1
15:11 gmcharlt I don't have particularly strong feelings either way
15:11 gmcharlt what *would* warrant a 2.5 is http2 support, IMO
15:12 gmcharlt any other comments
15:12 gmcharlt ?
15:13 Dyrcona Doesn't look it warrants a 2.5 just for the diagnostic changes.
15:13 hopkinsju joined #evergreen
15:13 gmcharlt agreed
15:13 julialima joined #evergreen
15:13 gmcharlt moving on
15:14 gmcharlt #topic Evergreen release
15:14 gmcharlt berick: about?
15:15 berick omg, yes
15:15 gmcharlt :)
15:15 berick odd morning
15:15 gmcharlt welcome, berick
15:15 berick thanks ;)
15:15 berick so, we ready for an RC1?
15:15 gmcharlt (you've been volunteered to do all the things, by the way ;) )
15:15 berick heh
15:15 bshum berick++
15:16 berick i think we're ready for an RC1.  so i will cut one very soon
15:16 berick probaby tomorrow
15:16 gmcharlt berick: +1 to an RC1
15:17 gmcharlt #info berick to cut an RC1 for Evergreen 2.8.0 in the next day or so
15:17 berick i have not heard any problems w/ the beta, fwiw, apart from standard bug reports
15:17 bshum Fwiw, we're still testing up our upgraded DB to master, but the upgrade scripts didn't blow up anywhere so far for us.
15:17 bshum So far.
15:18 berick thanks, bshum
15:19 gmcharlt berick: anything else to say about 2.8 rc1?
15:19 berick nothing at the moment to add
15:20 gmcharlt ok, moving on
15:20 gmcharlt #topic Questions about Security Bugs/Process
15:21 gmcharlt #info Kathy Lussier's questions + responses - http://markmail.org/thread/fqrhegamnyej2s57
15:21 gmcharlt #info Proposal for defined process for security team membership - http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku​.php?id=dev:security#security_team
15:21 gmcharlt #info Current security team - http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=​dev:security#current_security_team_members
15:22 gmcharlt as you can see, kmlussier has joined the team (as of today)
15:22 gmcharlt kmlussier++
15:22 berick kmlussier++
15:22 bshum kmlussier++
15:22 Bmagic kmlussier++
15:23 jeff kmlussier++
15:23 * kmlussier hasn't done much yet beyond making a lot of noise. ;)
15:23 dbwells kmlussier++
15:24 gmcharlt so, at this point, the floor is open to any follow-up discussion
15:25 * kmlussier has nothing to add.
15:28 gmcharlt I propose that we carry on any further discussion on the ML, then
15:28 gmcharlt moving on in 15 seconds
15:28 bshum It seems like it'll be good to see how the new policy and members work out for awhile and then see what else needs adjustment.
15:29 dbwells I agree
15:29 gmcharlt ok
15:29 gmcharlt #topic Style Guide Project
15:29 gmcharlt #info OPW project finsihed on 3/9
15:30 gmcharlt #info Project blog is at http://lima-julia.tumblr.com/
15:30 gmcharlt #info Project branch is at https://github.com/JuliaLima/Everg​reen/tree/patch-1/docs/style_guide
15:30 gmcharlt julialima: you have the floor
15:31 dbwells julialima has agreed to join us today for at least one more time (hopefully more again, someday :)
15:32 dbwells I took the opportunity to post some public gists to the agenda to perhaps encourage more review of what has been accomplished so far.
15:32 dbwells The guide is much more interesting and entertaining with all the pictures in place.
15:33 dbwells Finally, the "Next Steps" is my interpretation of some of julialima's recommendations in her last blog post.
15:33 dbwells Basically, how do we get this to a point where it is in full use?
15:33 gmcharlt julialima: I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts
15:35 julialima Well, I know it is not easy the implementation of the UI style guide, so I try to think in the starting points about how to implement it (that is what I wrote in my blog post)
15:36 julialima And I think dbwells understand what I mean in his proposal. I really hope it can be achieve
15:37 gmcharlt julialima: thanks, that helps :)
15:39 gmcharlt so, I think there are some details to digest
15:39 gmcharlt do folks have any immediate feedback?
15:39 kmlussier I would like to see the full style guide posted somewhere on the Evergreen web site. Maybe as an appendix to the docs?
15:39 Bmagic julialima++
15:39 hopkinsju julialima++
15:41 gmcharlt julialima++
15:41 dbwells It seems like engagement here is pretty light today, so it probably makes sense to extend the "next steps" proposal discussion to the list as well?  I want to be clear that this proposal as written is my own, just so there is no confusion about it.
15:42 gmcharlt yeah, I think moving the discussion onto open-ils-dev is the next step
15:42 gmcharlt any other comments before we move on to the next agenda item?
15:42 dbwells will do.  Does anyone have any immediate feedback on the idea of a new team?
15:43 dbwells I'd like to address any concerns if possible when I email the list.
15:43 remingtron I like the idea of a new team to help facilitate adoption of the guide
15:43 * kmlussier agrees
15:43 gmcharlt -1 unless a reason can be articulated why a discussion cannot be held on open-ils-general and open-ils-dev
15:44 kmlussier I don't see why discussion can't happen in our normal communication channels.
15:45 dbwells I am thinking meetings would happen in #evergreen, certainly.  It is really more about commitment than anything else.
15:45 dbs Let's start with the regular mailing lists and see what develops
15:46 kmlussier I'm mostly interested in the commitment factor too. I actually wouldn't want to see too much more expansion happen with the style guide at this point. I would rather focus on starting to incorporate what's already there.
15:47 dbs A big part of this is just building out the basic pieces that have been laid out
15:47 dbs and we'll rename the .txt files to .adoc to get fancy highlighting in github :)
15:47 dbwells +1 to that :)
15:50 gmcharlt ok
15:50 julialima Once more, I want to thank you all. It was an awesome experience for me. I am willing to help in whatever (opinions in general or questions about my work). I will try to be aware of the project and say hi once in a while. It was a real pleasure :)
15:50 gmcharlt thanks, julialima!
15:50 gmcharlt julialima++
15:50 dbs julialima++
15:50 jboyer-isl julialima++
15:51 dbwells julialima++
15:51 remingtron julialima++
15:51 jeff julialima++ thank you!
15:52 gmcharlt #topic Potential upcoming localhost WebSockets restrictions
15:52 gmcharlt #info Link to discussion of Chromium potentially blocking localhost websockets access https://code.google.com/p/chr​omium/issues/detail?id=378566
15:54 jeff I added this -- there's not much in stone yet, but I wanted to ensure that as wide an audience was aware of the issue (and how it could potentially affect Evergreen).
15:55 gmcharlt jeff++ # thanks for the heads-up
15:56 kmlussier Monday must be a bad day for meetings.
15:56 jeff We do not seem to be alone in having a use case for localhost WebSockets connections from Chrome, which is good.
15:56 gmcharlt yeah, but we should add our voice to the chorus
15:56 gmcharlt berick: are you up for that/
15:56 gmcharlt ?
15:56 jeff kmlussier: I'm just glad I didn't #startmeeting -- i'm presently out on the floor tag-teaming a recalcitrant microfilm scanner. :-)
15:57 kmlussier heh
15:57 * dbs needs to split for kids
15:57 * Bmagic is glad dbs is not splitting kids
15:58 gmcharlt ok, I"m going to assign an action anyway
15:58 gmcharlt #action berick, gmcharlt, and eeevil will add a response to the chromium localhost ws bug
15:58 gmcharlt and finally, very briefly
15:59 gmcharlt #topic Feedback for new features under development
15:59 gmcharlt does anybody have new stuff in the works they want to mention?
16:00 jeff equally briefly: we're looking at adding some things to Missing Pieces with regard to default circ duration after marking missing, etc. If others are interested, let me know or look for a launchpad wishlist bug in the near future.
16:00 gmcharlt sounds intriguing
16:00 gmcharlt thanks, jeff!
16:01 gmcharlt and as it is 16:01 here...
16:01 gmcharlt #endmeeting
16:01 pinesol_green Meeting ended Mon Mar 16 16:01:16 2015 US/Eastern.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
16:01 pinesol_green Minutes:        http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2015/evergreen.2015-03-16-15.04.html
16:01 pinesol_green Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2015/evergreen.2015-03-16-15.04.txt
16:01 pinesol_green Log:            http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergree​n/2015/evergreen.2015-03-16-15.04.log.html
16:01 jeff gmcharlt++
16:01 jboyer-isl appologies for the partial attention, I was trying to get up to speed on the websockets issue.
16:01 eeevil I'll mention here that there is a broad status update coming RSN for the sprint 1 web staff client bug hunting.  tl;dr: of 137 bugs opened, 7 remain unresolved (or undeferred)
16:01 eeevil ha! I missed the end of the meeting with that. oops
16:02 jboyer-isl I must not have been successful, because from what I'm reading it sounds like it's already too late for Firefox?
16:03 DPearl left #evergreen
16:03 berick gmcharlt: re: websocket, yes, thanks
16:03 berick .. for adding the action
16:05 dbwells gmcharlt++ # running the meeting
16:06 kmlussier gmcharlt++
16:23 kmlussier @karma
16:23 pinesol_green kmlussier: Highest karma: "dbs" (978), "bshum" (945), and "tsbere" (659).  Lowest karma: "ie" (-62), "^" (-29), and "marc" (-28).  You (kmlussier) are ranked 6 out of 2459.
16:24 julialima left #evergreen
16:25 Dyrcona ^-- # just because.
16:26 dbwells can't stand that character.  So uppity.
16:28 Dyrcona heh
16:29 * kmlussier chuckles
16:39 kmlussier v++
16:50 kmlussier If a 14-year-old were getting started in programming, what language would be a good one to start them off in?
16:50 Dyrcona Python or HTML/Javascript, but only the good parts of JavaScript.
16:51 Dyrcona You can get instant gratification in both languages and getting to the fun stuff is not very hard.
16:51 kmlussier Ha ha. I just turned to my Twitter feed, and floating to the top was a tweet that said "Which programming language is best for beginners? "
16:52 kmlussier My son was just looking through the local hs course catalog, and he said "the one elective I know I want to take is programming." Warmed my heart.
16:53 kmlussier But then I looked at the description for their intro to programming...Visual Basic
16:54 Dyrcona Well, it makes sense given how Microsoft has turned "computer science" in public High Schools into a "learn MS products" curriculum.
16:55 kmlussier Sigh
16:55 eeevil kmlussier: perl! (not kidding)
16:55 phasefx kmlussier: PyLogo might be fun
16:56 Dyrcona eeevil: You just earned your nick. ;)
16:56 Dyrcona ...but only the good parts of Perl! ;)
16:57 kmlussier eeevil: I was thinking perl might be something to pursue later. After getting started in something like python. No?
16:57 Dyrcona kmlussier: I made that remark about JavaScript earlier, because there is a book entitled JavaScript: The Good Parts.
16:57 _bott_ Perl's regex handling has ruined me for all others
16:57 Dyrcona _bott_: libpcre, you can take it with you. :)
16:58 Dyrcona Well, most of it, anyway.
16:58 jonadab Eww, visualbasic--
16:58 eeevil kmlussier: python's no easier or harder than any other language ... in reality, learning /any/ language but PHP will teach you a LOT
16:58 eeevil IMNSHO
16:58 Dyrcona PHP will teach a lot. Mostly how *not* to do things.
16:58 jonadab Any of the major VHLLs would be fine -- Perl, Python, Ruby.
16:58 eeevil Dyrcona: point
16:58 jonadab And yes, avoid PHP.
16:58 Dyrcona Actually, I've seen good PHP code.
16:59 eeevil and also IMNSHO, the camel book is one of the best "learn to think like a programmer" books ever
16:59 tsbere I think PHP teaches you how to do things better than VB. <_<
16:59 jonadab PHP is actually much, MUCH better than it used to be.
16:59 jonadab But that's relative.
16:59 Dyrcona Well, I picked up VB late. I started back when computers booted to a BASIC prompt.
16:59 jonadab Inform6 is also a decent choice, albeit with a very limited application domain.
17:00 eeevil (and by that I mean it teaches you what happens as you interact with the computer through the language, not just "here's the syntax")
17:00 _bott_ I don't trust languages I can't write with vi
17:00 Dyrcona Nothing like programming in C on Mac System 7 for learning discipline.
17:00 Dyrcona But, anyway, time to go.
17:01 kmlussier Dyrcona: I started on BASIC too
17:01 phasefx jonadab: xyzzy!
17:01 jonadab Dyrcona: I've been learning C by studing the NetHack codebase.  Really.
17:01 jonadab And yes, that's every bit as crazy as it sounds.
17:01 kmlussier The plan was to move on to Cobol and Pascal, but then my high school replaced all of the TRS-80's with these new things called Macs.
17:01 kmlussier I haven't used a Mac since.
17:01 kmlussier Well, not willingly. :)
17:01 jonadab phasefx: Yes.
17:01 * phasefx has an Inform5 manual in the next room
17:02 jonadab phasefx: Yeah, I have a print copy of the DM4.
17:02 jonadab Which is a really well-written book.
17:02 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
17:03 kmlussier Thanks for the tips! Have a nice night everyone!
17:03 Bmagic kmlussier: HTML, QBASIC, Java, C#, PERL in that order
17:03 phasefx jonadab: cool deal. I just looked at the date on this thing.  Oy :)
17:03 jonadab Heh.
17:04 phasefx kmlussier: you missed a good humble bundle recently that had programming books for young people
17:05 kmlussier phasefx: Really? Do they do those often?
17:06 phasefx kmlussier: I haven't seen a repeat on the books, but some games have repeated.  Might be useful as a reading list if nothing else
17:06 kmlussier phasefx: OK, thanks!
17:07 phasefx it was called the Humble Brainiac Book Bundle
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