| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:22 |
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| 05:54 |
* kmlussier |
yawns |
| 06:16 |
kmlussier |
Looks like bug 1350371 has had a signoff for a while if anyone feels inclined to merge it. :) |
| 06:16 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1350371 in Evergreen "ACQ improved duplicate order detection" (affected: 1, heat: 8) [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1350371 |
| 06:20 |
kmlussier |
Ooh! I missed bug 1379815 when it was first added. I'll have to add it to my testing list for today. |
| 06:20 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1379815 in Evergreen "Assign stat cats during Vandelay import/overlay of items" (affected: 1, heat: 8) [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1379815 |
| 06:48 |
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| 08:13 |
* kmlussier |
watches the VM build with the metabib-display-field branch this time to see if she can catch any errors. |
| 08:26 |
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| 08:40 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP#1350371 PO name on create w/ dupe detect - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=9802834> |
| 08:40 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP#1350371 detect dupe PO name on edit - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=87e8303> |
| 08:40 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP#1350371 display existing copies - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=74135fe> |
| 08:40 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP#1350371 ACQ dupe orders release notes - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=269cb6a> |
| 08:41 |
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| 08:41 |
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| 08:42 |
kmlussier |
eeevil / goood: I see lots of schema "xxxx" does not exist messages, so it looks like your right. I don't really know what I'm looking for, but the first sign of trouble seems to be http://pastebin.com/zCxJMGD4 |
| 08:44 |
eeevil |
kmlussier: right. do you have the output of the (I'm assuming) script that loaded the branch into the VM? there must be an SQL error somewhere... |
| 08:44 |
eeevil |
oh, I see that's part of the output |
| 08:45 |
eeevil |
ok... /me looks |
| 08:47 |
eeevil |
kmlussier: huh... interesting. did you rebase that against current master? the table (and function) creation is def out of order |
| 08:47 |
eeevil |
http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=blob;f=Open-ILS/src/sql/Pg/002.schema.config.sql;h=f8094cd7f862f33de3a6d184ab0ea8c1ea6df622;hb=refs/heads/user/miker/lp1251394-metabib-display-fields#l172 |
| 08:47 |
kmlussier |
eeevil: Rebase the branch? No, it didn't give me any merge conflicts. |
| 08:48 |
kmlussier |
eeevil: I have a great big file with all of the output if you would like me to share it with you somehow. :) |
| 08:48 |
eeevil |
heh ... well, I see the first problem, and I'll push a commit for it |
| 08:49 |
Dyrcona |
kmlussier: You're loading a database/building the schema from scratch? |
| 08:49 |
Dyrcona |
Oh, nm. |
| 08:49 |
kmlussier |
Dyrcona: I'm just running tsbere's script to build the VM with that branch. |
| 08:50 |
Dyrcona |
OK. Looks like that is where it is having problems, but also eeevil apparently has some of it figured out. |
| 08:50 |
* Dyrcona |
came late to the party as usual. :) |
| 08:52 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Kathy Lussier] lp1422555: Shorter permalink on record summary page - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=d7fd69d> |
| 08:52 |
kmlussier |
Yay! |
| 08:53 |
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| 08:55 |
eeevil |
kmlussier / Dyrcona: working/user/miker/lp1251394-metabib-display-fields updated |
| 08:55 |
kmlussier |
eeevil++ |
| 08:56 |
eeevil |
either rebasing shifted the code around and I missed it ... or, the baseline schema was never tested -- only the upgrade version was |
| 09:02 |
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| 09:23 |
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| 09:25 |
kmlussier |
eeevil: Still getting the schema does not exist messages, but the initial error is a bit different this time: |
| 09:26 |
kmlussier |
psql:002.schema.config.sql:188: ERROR: syntax error at or near "representative_field" |
| 09:26 |
kmlussier |
LINE 11: representative_field INTEGER, |
| 09:26 |
eeevil |
I'm sure I fat fingered something |
| 09:26 |
eeevil |
looking |
| 09:27 |
eeevil |
oh, it was another but, not a new fat-finger. ONE MORE PUSH COMING :) |
| 09:31 |
eeevil |
kmlussier: there you go |
| 09:31 |
kmlussier |
eeevil: Thanks! |
| 09:35 |
kmlussier |
jboyer-isl / mmorgan: If you have a moment, could you check the release notes entry in /user/kmlussier/LP1210541_Copy_Location_Deleted_Flag_signoff to make sure it accurately reflects what the code is doing? |
| 09:35 |
jboyer-isl |
kmlussier: on my way to have a look-see. (Thanks again!) |
| 09:36 |
jboyer-isl |
Looks good to me. |
| 09:36 |
kmlussier |
jboyer-isl: Thanks! |
| 09:36 |
mmorgan |
Looks good to me, too! |
| 09:37 |
mmorgan |
kmlussier++ |
| 09:38 |
kmlussier |
Thanks mmorgan! |
| 09:41 |
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| 09:43 |
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| 09:54 |
* dbs |
is starting to think a cover image generation service (for when added content fails) would be a really nice thing to have |
| 09:54 |
gmcharlt |
kmlussier: jboyer-isl: great, that settles the question of which of the two rel_note branches for that bug I should push from :) |
| 10:07 |
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| 10:07 |
Bmagic |
Is it easy to change the way bibs are matched to a metarecord? |
| 10:08 |
Bmagic |
245a+100a+008Date1 is the default method? |
| 10:09 |
eeevil |
Bmagic: from within the DB it is easy. see config.biblio_fingerprint |
| 10:09 |
eeevil |
and there's no 008 data in the fingerprint by default |
| 10:10 |
Bmagic |
eeevil: oh, it's using 100b ? |
| 10:10 |
eeevil |
no |
| 10:11 |
kmlussier |
Heh, mmorgan and I were just having a discussion re metarecord mapping yesterday, and I was going to ask in here where that was configured. Thank you Bmagic and eeevil! :) |
| 10:11 |
eeevil |
it's using the first of 700t,240a, 242a, 246a or 245a, plus the first word from the first of 700a(where t exists), 100a, 110a, 111a, or 260b |
| 10:11 |
Bmagic |
I see |
| 10:13 |
Bmagic |
there are 2 rows: title author. It uses both? |
| 10:15 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Jason Boyer] LP1366026: Add Active Date to Record Detail Page - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=45e2e05> |
| 10:15 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Kathy Lussier] LP#1366026: Adding release notes entry for display active date - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=d4af30e> |
| 10:15 |
mmorgan |
Yay! |
| 10:16 |
eeevil |
Bmagic: yes. it uses /all/ rows that you add |
| 10:17 |
Bmagic |
eeevil: [@tag="700" and ./*[@code="t"]] im not understanding. |
| 10:17 |
eeevil |
Bmagic: see the function biblio.extract_fingerprint |
| 10:18 |
eeevil |
Bmagic: that's xpath. says "tag 700 which contains a subfield with code=t" |
| 10:19 |
Bmagic |
eeevil: yeah, I assumed, however, it's written //marc:datafield[@tag="700"]/marc:subfield[@code="t"]| as well |
| 10:21 |
eeevil |
that's a separate expression |
| 10:21 |
eeevil |
that says "give me the content of subfield t from tag 700" |
| 10:21 |
eeevil |
the former is "author where there's a title in the 700", latter is "title in the 700" |
| 10:24 |
Bmagic |
i see |
| 10:27 |
Bmagic |
eeevil: So it's only matching title and author which appear in different places depending on the presence of 700t |
| 10:27 |
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| 10:30 |
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| 10:38 |
Dyrcona |
This next question is aimed at DIG and the devs, mainly. |
| 10:39 |
Dyrcona |
Does anyone object to my creating a Security directory under RELEASE_NOTES_NEXT? |
| 10:43 |
Dyrcona |
Hmm. We seem to only do release notes for new features. |
| 10:44 |
Dyrcona |
So changing that is a larger conversation. |
| 10:45 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Chris Sharp] LP#1419813 Fix default joins for config.rule_age_hold_protection. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=bb98f18> |
| 10:46 |
kmlussier |
Dyrcona: I would be up for a conversation of doing release notes on all changes and pushing them out for each point release. |
| 10:46 |
remingtron |
Dyrcona: were you wanting to add general security docs, rather than new feature stuff? At one point DIG discussed adding a DOCS_NEXT directory for devs who wrote their own docs |
| 10:47 |
remingtron |
so a security directory could go in a new DOCS_NEXT directory |
| 10:47 |
Dyrcona |
kmlussier remingtron: I think release notes for bugs fixed in point releases would be a good thing, particularly bugs on Launchpad. |
| 10:47 |
Dyrcona |
remingtron: Well, it isn't really a documentation sort of thing. |
| 10:48 |
eeevil |
Bmagic: no. it matches the first title (pipe-separated subexpressions return a list, we use the first in that list) and first word from the first author field |
| 10:48 |
remingtron |
ah, you want to have release notes for security related bugs? |
| 10:48 |
Dyrcona |
Well, all bugs really, but security bugs in particular. |
| 10:49 |
remingtron |
sounds reasonable |
| 10:50 |
remingtron |
Dyrcona: the downloads page would make more sense then, since the release notes link would always relate to the newest point release |
| 10:51 |
Dyrcona |
remingtron: Right. We have only done release notes for major releases so far. It's an extra burden on devs and RMs, but we should discuss changing that. |
| 10:51 |
remingtron |
good point, we have to weigh the cost |
| 10:51 |
Dyrcona |
Yep. |
| 10:51 |
remingtron |
probably more a question for the RMs than for DIG then, right? |
| 10:52 |
Bmagic |
eeevil: got it. Thanks for clearing that up. |
| 10:52 |
Dyrcona |
remingtron: Guess so, really. |
| 10:53 |
Dyrcona |
I'll just do what I was planning for this time, and we'll pick up the discussion in a more general sense later. |
| 10:53 |
dbwells |
Dyrcona: for the case in question, I'd just put it in the RELEASE_NOTES_NEXT root, which will end up by default in the "Miscellaneous" section. The release notes get heavily massaged anyway, so the RM would probably then move it up to the top "Upgrade Notes" section. |
| 10:53 |
kmlussier |
Dyrcona: The DIG release coordinator would also be willing to help out with it. |
| 10:54 |
Dyrcona |
dbwells: Good suggestion. I'll do that for now until we decide what to do about point release notes. |
| 10:54 |
kmlussier |
It could just be a matter of prettying up the change logs for each point release. |
| 10:54 |
Dyrcona |
Well, I think security fixes should get extra attention. |
| 10:57 |
kmlussier |
eeevil: Still no luck on the metabib display fields branch. Also, I don't know if the person who was planning to test it will be able to do it for tomorrow. Just wanted to let you know in case there are other things you need to do. |
| 10:57 |
kmlussier |
Latest error is: psql:002.schema.config.sql:188: ERROR: function config.metabib_representative_field_is_valid(integer, text) does not exist |
| 10:57 |
kmlussier |
HINT: No function matches the given name and argument types. You might need to add explicit type casts. |
| 10:58 |
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| 10:59 |
eeevil |
kmlussier: ah... yeah, there's more to move around. Thanks for looking at it. I won't have tuits to get back to it today, sorry. if there's a way to use the upgrade script on an existing master db, that should get you there, but I don't know if that's easy in your setup |
| 10:59 |
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| 11:00 |
kmlussier |
eeevil: OK, I'll just add that error to the LP bug then so it doesn't get lost. |
| 11:00 |
eeevil |
thanks much! |
| 11:00 |
dbwells |
I am also going to make time to test the metabib display fields before the cutoff, since I'm at least partially responsible that it's been delayed this long. Must make amends! |
| 11:03 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Steven Chan] LP#1418772: Avoid internal server error on viewing full record when copy create_date is null - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=55aaea8> |
| 11:03 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Galen Charlton] LP#1418772: (follow-up) tweak undef-edness check - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=fcaf1cc> |
| 11:12 |
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| 11:13 |
mrpeters |
is it possible to restrict an action trigger event to only perform an action if the circ_modifier of the target = a single, or list of particular circ modifers |
| 11:15 |
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| 11:16 |
mrpeters |
for example, only send an overdue notice if the circ modifier = DVD |
| 11:17 |
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| 11:20 |
mmorgan |
mrpeters: I think that should be possible if you specify those conditions in your a-t template. |
| 11:20 |
* mmorgan |
has not done this, but has conditional statements in templates for patron permission groups |
| 11:20 |
mrpeters |
well, for example -- if we mark a DVD "lost" after 3 hours -- there is no template for that AT |
| 11:21 |
mrpeters |
its just a MarkItemLost reactor (basically a clone of 90 day overdue that ships with EG) |
| 11:22 |
mmorgan |
So you're marking lost rather than sending an overdue notification? |
| 11:22 |
mrpeters |
doing both, actually |
| 11:22 |
mrpeters |
hourly overdue notices until 3 hours, then one final notice and the item is marked lost |
| 11:22 |
mrpeters |
the nasty thing that is happening (and i dont think they considered this) was that its making ALL of their overdue items get mark lost after 3 hours |
| 11:23 |
mmorgan |
That doesn't sound desirable :-( |
| 11:23 |
mrpeters |
yeah, i think on paper this made sense (it even makes sense to me) but now im seeing the consequence |
| 11:24 |
mrpeters |
it never gets to the normal 7 day, etc. notices because the xact gets stopped as lost after 3 hours overdue |
| 11:29 |
mmorgan |
so I would think that sending the hourly overdues would be doable, but don't see a solution for marking lost. Don't actually have much experience with the mark lost trigger. |
| 11:29 |
mrpeters |
yeah, i think you're right for the notices |
| 11:29 |
mrpeters |
since they have a template |
| 11:30 |
mrpeters |
as always, im sure if there is a will (or $$$$$) there is a way :P |
| 11:30 |
mrpeters |
for the mark lost stuff |
| 11:31 |
mrpeters |
do you have an example of how you're using permissions in your templates? |
| 11:31 |
mmorgan |
It sure seems like there should be a way given enough brain cells, or $$$:) |
| 11:31 |
mmorgan |
I'll grab a snippet from a template... |
| 11:32 |
mrpeters |
this may honestly just be something nobody has ever run into -- it was a bit of a new concept for me when presented |
| 11:33 |
mrpeters |
most places just mark lost after a long period of time, but you throw a wrench in there when you mark lost after a short time and inadvertently convert the transactions from circs to bills for lost items |
| 11:33 |
Dyrcona |
Yeah, hourly circs require more work from admins and maybe even some development. |
| 11:33 |
mrpeters |
Dyrcona: good to know, i thought that might be the case |
| 11:34 |
Dyrcona |
I'd think you could create a new action trigger to handle that, but I'm not an A/T expert by any means. |
| 11:34 |
mrpeters |
I think mmorgan is right that the notices can be handled easily with conditionals |
| 11:34 |
mrpeters |
but all of the examples for mark lost ive seen don't have templates -- and im not sure having a template with a condition would even work for that Reactor |
| 11:34 |
Dyrcona |
Yeah, that sounds good. |
| 11:35 |
mmorgan |
Actually, we've got permission group and org unit conditionals in some triggers. |
| 11:35 |
pastebot |
"mmorgan" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "[%- USE date -%] [%- user = ta" (15 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/35 |
| 11:35 |
mrpeters |
[%- IF (target.0.target_copy.circ_lib.id == 59) -%] thats perfect right there |
| 11:36 |
mrpeters |
if target.0.target_copy_circ_modifer.id == some value from the circ modifier table i think that takes care of things |
| 11:39 |
mmorgan |
I think so, and make sure circ_modifier is in your event environment |
| 11:40 |
Dyrcona |
mmorgan++ |
| 11:41 |
mrpeters |
yes absolutely |
| 11:41 |
mrpeters |
they've heeded my advice and totally disabled this hourly stuff until we can figure out the auto mark lost stuff |
| 11:45 |
* berick |
looks at bug #1410369 |
| 11:45 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1410369 in Evergreen "Message Center for the Public Catalog" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410369 |
| 11:46 |
jboyer-isl |
mmorgan: Does the STOP command cause it to fail or simply not email the patron? It seems like doing anything at the template stage would still cause mrpeters problem to happen. |
| 11:47 |
jboyer-isl |
mrpeters: You'll probably need to write a custom validator (look at checkout.due for an example, maybe?) that looks for the circ modifiers you're interested in, that way if the event isn't valid the item isn't marked lost. |
| 11:47 |
mrpeters |
actually jason, i think it would be ok if it stops the notices |
| 11:47 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Thomas Berezansky] LP#1413624: OpenILS::WWW::AccessHandler Module - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=a19bf24> |
| 11:47 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Thomas Berezansky] LP#1413624: AccessHandler Space delimination and bugfix - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=abfa473> |
| 11:47 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Galen Charlton] LP#1413624: update doc to reflect that spaces can also delimit option lists - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=e09409f> |
| 11:47 |
mrpeters |
the concern is the mark lost |
| 11:47 |
mrpeters |
it would be ok (though a bit sloppy) if it "collected" a 3 hour overdue to send a notice, but didnt actually send one because it was invalid |
| 11:48 |
jboyer-isl |
mrpeters: but it will still be marking everything lost, that's what I mean. it would look like things are working but everything still goes lost, that's where you need the validator. |
| 11:48 |
mrpeters |
the mark lost is seperate from all of the hourly notices |
| 11:48 |
mmorgan |
Disclaimer: I didn't write the code, but have copied it liberally :) It stops the notice from being generated, I believe. |
| 11:48 |
jboyer-isl |
Oh, well in that case it you write the validator for the mark lost action it should just do the right thing. |
| 11:49 |
mrpeters |
i dont think the conditionals in the template for the MarkItemLost would solve things though |
| 11:49 |
mrpeters |
but maybe they would? im not sure. ive seen that event error out when there are environment settings and a template |
| 11:49 |
mrpeters |
err no template |
| 11:49 |
* mmorgan |
dashes out for an appt... |
| 11:53 |
mrpeters |
mmorgan++ thanks |
| 12:13 |
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| 12:27 |
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| 12:37 |
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| 12:38 |
remingtron |
Reminder: special meeting about organizing the docs starts in 20 Minutes |
| 12:50 |
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| 12:59 |
krvmga |
is the DIG meeting here at 1? |
| 13:00 |
yboston |
yes |
| 13:00 |
* krvmga |
waves at yboston. |
| 13:00 |
remingtron |
yboston: do you feel like running the meeting? |
| 13:00 |
remingtron |
no formal agenda, just the wiki page... |
| 13:00 |
remingtron |
http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-docs:reorg_2014 |
| 13:00 |
yboston |
I can run it, but I am not prepared for it |
| 13:00 |
yboston |
that has not stopped me before |
| 13:01 |
remingtron |
ha |
| 13:01 |
yboston |
hold on |
| 13:01 |
remingtron |
I'm happy to try, but I'm not prepared either |
| 13:01 |
remingtron |
:) |
| 13:01 |
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| 13:01 |
yboston |
#startmeeting DIG docs re-org discussion |
| 13:01 |
pinesol_green |
Meeting started Thu Feb 19 13:01:50 2015 US/Eastern. The chair is yboston. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 13:01 |
pinesol_green |
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. |
| 13:01 |
pinesol_green |
The meeting name has been set to 'dig_docs_re_org_discussion' |
| 13:02 |
yboston |
#topic Introductions |
| 13:02 |
yboston |
Please feel free to start introducing yourselves... |
| 13:02 |
krvmga |
#info krvmga = Jim Keenan, CWMARS |
| 13:02 |
yboston |
#info yboston is Yamil Suarez @ Berklee College of Music |
| 13:02 |
remingtron |
#info remingtron = Remington Steed, Hekman Library (Calvin College) |
| 13:03 |
yboston |
for the record, I am always prepared to lead monthly DIG meetings, I prepare my cheat sheet and have several web pagesopenw ith agend and stuff |
| 13:03 |
sandbergja |
#info sandbergja is Jane Sandberg @ Linn-Benton Community College |
| 13:03 |
jihpringle |
#info jihpringle is Jennifer Pringle, BC Libraries Cooperative (Sitka) |
| 13:03 |
yboston |
I just meant the other day someone ask me to run a meeting at the last moment, and I survived |
| 13:03 |
remingtron |
yboston: thanks for being brave |
| 13:03 |
afterl |
#info afterl = Amy Terlaga, Bibliomation |
| 13:03 |
yboston |
here is the agenda / wiki page |
| 13:04 |
akilsdonk |
#info akilsdonk is Angela Kilsdonk, ESI |
| 13:04 |
yboston |
#link http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-docs:reorg_2014 |
| 13:04 |
yboston |
#topic Ideas for Organization |
| 13:05 |
yboston |
my bad |
| 13:05 |
yboston |
#topic Use the structure of "Evergreen in Action" as the main organizing structure for the docs |
| 13:05 |
yboston |
I though I would start with this idea |
| 13:05 |
remingtron |
good place to start |
| 13:05 |
remingtron |
is everyone familiar with this book? |
| 13:05 |
krvmga |
EIA was an interesting project to participate in. |
| 13:05 |
remingtron |
#link http://en.flossmanuals.net/evergreen-in-action/ |
| 13:06 |
yboston |
#link http://en.flossmanuals.net/evergreen-in-action/ |
| 13:06 |
yboston |
ha ha |
| 13:06 |
yboston |
I'll start of by saying that I liked readign Evergreen in Action; and that the organization made sense |
| 13:06 |
yboston |
at least for a beguiner |
| 13:06 |
remingtron |
it was a special manual written for approx. Evergreen 2.2 |
| 13:07 |
krvmga |
but because it was off-the-cuff, the organization wasn't actually planned out at the start. it grew with discussion. |
| 13:07 |
krvmga |
lots of post-it notes and then discarding topics |
| 13:07 |
krvmga |
we only had a few days to write the whole book |
| 13:08 |
remingtron |
krvmga: how happy were you all with the resulting book? any gaping holes or problems you see looking back? |
| 13:08 |
krvmga |
as to work organization: we all split topics up, wrote them up, then passed our write-ups to other team members for review. |
| 13:08 |
krvmga |
as an experiment in rapid document production, i thought it was great |
| 13:08 |
krvmga |
and successful |
| 13:09 |
sandbergja |
I think one of the things that makes the Evergreen in Action manual so successful and helpful is that it has a really defined audience |
| 13:09 |
krvmga |
yes, i think that's true. |
| 13:09 |
remingtron |
great point |
| 13:09 |
sandbergja |
Folks from my consortium think that the current official docs try to be too many things to too many people |
| 13:09 |
krvmga |
i was thinking the same about the current docs -- that this was a weakness |
| 13:09 |
remingtron |
krvmga: sandbergja: do you think we should reorganize based on audience? |
| 13:10 |
krvmga |
we have a grand mass of documentation but it's not targeted |
| 13:10 |
yboston |
sandbergja: thanks, I will make a note of this opinion |
| 13:10 |
jihpringle |
+1 reorganize based on audience |
| 13:10 |
krvmga |
i have the impression libraries wish they had essentially "For Dummies" books about each topical area |
| 13:11 |
krvmga |
so they could give tech services the "Evergreen Cataloging" book, the circ desk "Evergreen Circulation", etc. |
| 13:11 |
yboston |
these are all great feedback |
| 13:11 |
krvmga |
and each "book" tailored to the end user at the desk rather than to an admin user. |
| 13:11 |
krvmga |
these are things i've heard from people. |
| 13:12 |
remingtron |
krvmga: right, with all the admin stuff in a separate book |
| 13:12 |
jihpringle |
but we also want a "book" tailored to the admin user in the staff client |
| 13:12 |
krvmga |
remingtron: yes |
| 13:12 |
krvmga |
jihpringle: yes |
| 13:13 |
remingtron |
It seems like this kind of change would be more about new presentation |
| 13:13 |
krvmga |
we might start at the point of defining the audiences we want to address and then begin to consider books from there. |
| 13:13 |
sandbergja |
Folks I talked to thought 3 "books": one for a really in-depth consortium-level admin with access to the shell on the server; one for a local admin type working with the staff client; one for circ/cat/acq staff who are just using eg on a daily basis |
| 13:14 |
krvmga |
i was amazed at the number of people who wanted dead tree versions of EIA. |
| 13:14 |
krvmga |
i could imagine people wanting "desk copies" of manuals |
| 13:15 |
sandbergja |
krvmga: I agree about desk copies option, especially for staff new to evergreen |
| 13:16 |
afterl |
sandbergja: I like the three book division |
| 13:16 |
remingtron |
sandbergja: I like the 3 book idea also |
| 13:16 |
krvmga |
i have a concern that the staff user book might end up being too thick of a brick. |
| 13:17 |
yboston |
I think the 3 book devision sounds fine, but in practice I suspect a 2 book division would be easier to maintain in the short term (front line vesrsu admin staff) |
| 13:17 |
afterl |
kvmga: with reports in there too, eh? |
| 13:17 |
krvmga |
maybe split out circ, cat, serials/acq |
| 13:17 |
remingtron |
krvmga: you could separate by "module" or workflow or such |
| 13:17 |
remingtron |
krvmga: right, that |
| 13:17 |
jihpringle |
if staff really want to print it they can print the relevant sections |
| 13:18 |
remingtron |
jihpringle: we would need to improve the PDF to make it nice to print |
| 13:18 |
remingtron |
but that is probably doable |
| 13:19 |
|
buzzy joined #evergreen |
| 13:19 |
krvmga |
remingtron: i'm sure it would be doable. |
| 13:19 |
yboston |
one technical concern is that I like usiing "jump links/see also" link between sections in the HTML version, would those links go away if we have multiple manuals? |
| 13:19 |
krvmga |
yboston: that's an interesting question. |
| 13:20 |
remingtron |
yboston: I'm sure we could preserve that functionality |
| 13:20 |
yboston |
my previous ILS had manuals brken down by module and also you had circ staff versus circ admin/set up |
| 13:20 |
krvmga |
there could be a couple of different ways to handle it so that we didn't lose that. |
| 13:21 |
yboston |
I had to grab multiple manuals at a time to figure out stuff becuase content only appeard in one of those two (for circ) |
| 13:21 |
krvmga |
with dead tree versions, you're always going to have that but electronic versions can do this much better. |
| 13:21 |
yboston |
I just want to be the devil's advocate that there will be a burden (and benefits) to having multiple manuals |
| 13:22 |
remingtron |
yboston: good concern |
| 13:22 |
krvmga |
yboston: were we not thinking that all these would be combined into an aggregate online? |
| 13:22 |
yboston |
krvmga: I want to have an automated solution to the crosslinking of manuals that does not depend on a human to create the cross links for the HTML version |
| 13:23 |
yboston |
krvmga: I don't know what you mean by aggregate? |
| 13:23 |
krvmga |
yboston: one giant mass of document |
| 13:23 |
remingtron |
the current docs have a nice custom Google search engine |
| 13:23 |
remingtron |
krvmga: I think we should separate them in how we present them |
| 13:23 |
remingtron |
but provide cross-search ability |
| 13:24 |
krvmga |
yboston: i'm sure we're not the first people to face this problem in the business world. i don't know if there's an open source solution for it. (requires some looking) |
| 13:24 |
remingtron |
so you don't have to use the admin search box, then the circ search box, etc. |
| 13:24 |
yboston |
krvmga: I was assuming that we would have differnt documents online too, though we might be able to do some AsciiDoc /Docbook magic to combine or seperate the output after being written |
| 13:24 |
krvmga |
yboston: i was kind of thinking in that direction. |
| 13:26 |
yboston |
I think this is a good start to have all these comments in one place |
| 13:26 |
yboston |
aas we approach the 30 minute mark |
| 13:26 |
krvmga |
yboston: i agree |
| 13:26 |
yboston |
we might want to focus on some areas |
| 13:27 |
yboston |
like should we start picking our most important flaws of the current docs or |
| 13:27 |
yboston |
what we think the audience should be |
| 13:27 |
yboston |
what should be the overall goals and "values/requirements" of the new re-organized docs |
| 13:28 |
krvmga |
i'm guessing everyone knows the story of the little red hen who wanted to bake a cake? |
| 13:28 |
yboston |
I don't |
| 13:28 |
krvmga |
the hen asks various animals for help getting ingredients for the cake. they all have excuses for not helping. the hen does all the work. the various animals all show up to eat the cake at the end. |
| 13:29 |
krvmga |
i'd like to assume everyone here is going to be a helper. :) |
| 13:30 |
krvmga |
in the hen story, the animals who come later don't get to eat the cake; only the hen and her chicks :) |
| 13:30 |
yboston |
BTW, at some point we shuold ask opinions fromt he whole community |
| 13:31 |
yboston |
but for example that can be done after we have had a secodn meeting to talk about re-orgs |
| 13:31 |
krvmga |
yboston: in that same line, i think, at some point, we should "play test" the docs with our expected end users. |
| 13:31 |
remingtron |
yboston: might be good to have a proposed outline to get feedback on |
| 13:31 |
sandbergja |
yboston: I like the sound of that -- I think we would get more feedback if we send out something concrete |
| 13:32 |
yboston |
I prefer to first have a clear list of things that we want to adress in the re-org and the minimun requirements for the re-org. Though both can be revised with time |
| 13:33 |
yboston |
since I think we probalvy do not agree 100% on how we want the re-org to be , I would liek to start finding what we do agree on |
| 13:33 |
krvmga |
yboston: it seems we agree on dividing the docs into some functional areas. |
| 13:34 |
jihpringle |
I'm assuming we're planning on reorganizing going forward so would it start with 2.8? |
| 13:34 |
remingtron |
jihpringle: not that soon |
| 13:34 |
yboston |
yboston: I am concerned that we might not be ready to support seperated docs yet |
| 13:34 |
remingtron |
this is just a brainstorming meeting, so it may take a while to slowly change |
| 13:35 |
yboston |
I would like to run some tests to make sure we have the correct automated worlflow first |
| 13:35 |
krvmga |
yboston: that sounds good |
| 13:35 |
remingtron |
yboston: right, it would require changes to the docs building process on the server |
| 13:36 |
|
Arlene joined #evergreen |
| 13:36 |
yboston |
I do agree that we should explore seperating the docs, both drafting some content and also starting to experiment with the processign side of it |
| 13:36 |
remingtron |
Just a note, we need to conclude before 2pm, since there's another meeting on this channel at 2pm |
| 13:36 |
krvmga |
part of the aim with EIA was to publish the docs through flossmanuals; are we thinking this at all? |
| 13:37 |
remingtron |
krvmga: we would need an automated way to publish small changes |
| 13:37 |
yboston |
I don't know enough about flossmanuals to answer that |
| 13:37 |
krvmga |
remingtron: yes, this was an ongoing issue with the process. |
| 13:38 |
krvmga |
we also made the books available through lulu |
| 13:38 |
|
kbutler joined #evergreen |
| 13:38 |
yboston |
lets delay the issue of flossmanuals since we are runing out of time |
| 13:39 |
yboston |
krvmga: can I assign an action item that has you ask us this question again at the next meeting? |
| 13:39 |
krvmga |
yboston: i accept that action item. |
| 13:40 |
yboston |
#action krvmga will follow up with DIG to see if the community wants to publish the docs through flossmanuals |
| 13:40 |
yboston |
what action items can we agree on to start researching and experimenting with seperating part of the docs ? |
| 13:41 |
yboston |
and who would like to work on that? |
| 13:41 |
jihpringle |
brainstorm on wiki intended audiences? |
| 13:41 |
remingtron |
I will try arranging the existing chapters into separate books as discussed |
| 13:41 |
remingtron |
jihpringle: good idea |
| 13:41 |
yboston |
also, we need to pick abother time to meet on this topic; either on IRC or by email |
| 13:41 |
sandbergja |
remingtron: I can help with that, if you'd like |
| 13:42 |
yboston |
#action remingtron & sandbergja will try arranging the existing chapters into separate books as discussed |
| 13:42 |
remingtron |
sandbergja: great! I'll make it a wiki page |
| 13:42 |
remingtron |
yboston: let's do another Doodle poll / reply-by-email-if-desired |
| 13:43 |
yboston |
remingtron: do mind doing another poll? |
| 13:43 |
yboston |
jihpringle: can assign to you that work on the audience? |
| 13:43 |
jihpringle |
yboston: sure |
| 13:43 |
|
Sato joined #evergreen |
| 13:43 |
remingtron |
yboston: sure, I'll send out the doodle again |
| 13:44 |
jihpringle |
I'll create a wiki page and link it back to the reorg page |
| 13:44 |
gmcharlt |
berick: around? |
| 13:44 |
yboston |
#action jihpringle will brainstorm on wiki intended audiences? |
| 13:44 |
gmcharlt |
(whoops, sorry) |
| 13:45 |
remingtron |
gmcharlt: no worries |
| 13:45 |
yboston |
jihpringle: would you mind sumaririzing the docs comments and complians in this chat too? |
| 13:46 |
|
abneiman joined #evergreen |
| 13:46 |
jihpringle |
yboston: no problem, I can do that |
| 13:46 |
yboston |
I was thinking of emailing kmlussier and Robert Souliere to warn them about our desire to split the docs, so we can start brainstorimin gthe techincal side |
| 13:46 |
* kmlussier |
is hear, but hasn't been paying close attention. |
| 13:46 |
kmlussier |
s/hear/here |
| 13:46 |
krvmga |
yboston: i think that's a good idea. dan scott, too, maybe. |
| 13:46 |
yboston |
#action jihpringle will sumaririze the docs comments and compliants in this chat log on the wiki |
| 13:47 |
yboston |
should I do it on the mail DIG list too? though it might start a big thread of comments and complaints, but I am OK with that too :) |
| 13:47 |
krvmga |
yboston: i'm okay with that. |
| 13:48 |
berick |
gmcharlt: for just a few minutes |
| 13:48 |
yboston |
#action yboston will send an email to the DIG list with to anounce that we want to research the techical side of processign a multi manual approach to the docs |
| 13:49 |
yboston |
we have ten minutes, but there is another meeting starting at 2 PM EST |
| 13:49 |
yboston |
when should we meet to discuss this topic again? btw, I think having a single topic discsion was helpfuk |
| 13:49 |
yboston |
*helpful |
| 13:50 |
remingtron |
I agree, very helpful |
| 13:50 |
yboston |
sorry, forfot that remingtron would find that out |
| 13:50 |
remingtron |
yes |
| 13:50 |
yboston |
any last comments, specially fromt hose that have not said anything yet, if they want to |
| 13:51 |
|
bbqben joined #evergreen |
| 13:51 |
afterl |
Just that I'm willing to help where it would make sense for a newbie to |
| 13:51 |
yboston |
do you want to help jihpringle summarize the complaints and comments? |
| 13:52 |
afterl |
Sure, will go to jhpringle for instruction |
| 13:52 |
yboston |
you can then add your own and your libraries's too |
| 13:52 |
remingtron |
afterl: do you have a wiki account? you can help on any of the wiki pages we're starting |
| 13:52 |
jihpringle |
we should probably add to that page as well as people comment/complain via the list |
| 13:52 |
yboston |
(sorry for my bad grammar when I type fast) |
| 13:52 |
afterl |
remingtron: I do have a wiki account |
| 13:53 |
remingtron |
afterl: great, jump in wherever you like! |
| 13:53 |
afterl |
Okay! |
| 13:53 |
|
montgoc1 joined #evergreen |
| 13:53 |
yboston |
seven minues left until the Evergreen Board meeting starts |
| 13:54 |
yboston |
* minutes |
| 13:54 |
yboston |
any final thoughts? |
| 13:54 |
krvmga |
i'm very happy everyone showed up. this is wonderful. |
| 13:54 |
|
montgoc_1 joined #evergreen |
| 13:54 |
remingtron |
yes, thanks all for your thoughts! |
| 13:54 |
yboston |
krvmga: BTW, I will send you a private message ina few moments |
| 13:55 |
krvmga |
yboston: okey doke |
| 13:55 |
yboston |
OK then, I think I will end the meeting now |
| 13:55 |
yboston |
thank you all very much |
| 13:55 |
krvmga |
yboston++ |
| 13:55 |
yboston |
#endmeeting |
| 13:55 |
pinesol_green |
Meeting ended Thu Feb 19 13:55:19 2015 US/Eastern. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 13:55 |
pinesol_green |
Minutes: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2015/evergreen.2015-02-19-13.01.html |
| 13:55 |
pinesol_green |
Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2015/evergreen.2015-02-19-13.01.txt |
| 13:55 |
pinesol_green |
Log: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2015/evergreen.2015-02-19-13.01.log.html |
| 13:55 |
sandbergja |
yboston++ |
| 13:55 |
remingtron |
yboston++ |
| 13:55 |
sandbergja |
krvmga++ |
| 13:55 |
yboston |
krvmga++ |
| 13:57 |
jihpringle |
afterl: I've created the comments/complaints wiki page (nothing on it yet) http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=evergreen-docs:reorg_2014:comments |
| 13:59 |
bbqben |
Hi all - EOB mtg starting here in a couple of minutes. cheers! |
| 13:59 |
kmlussier |
remingtron: I quick question before the next meeting starts. |
| 14:00 |
kmlussier |
Or maybe dbwells is the best person to answer it. |
| 14:00 |
kmlussier |
I'm going to test bug 1379815 |
| 14:00 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1379815 in Evergreen "Assign stat cats during Vandelay import/overlay of items" (affected: 1, heat: 8) [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1379815 |
| 14:00 |
dbwells |
yay :) |
| 14:00 |
|
buzzy joined #evergreen |
| 14:00 |
|
krvmga left #evergreen |
| 14:00 |
dbs |
kmlussier: I have a suggested additional commit for 1422555 |
| 14:00 |
kmlussier |
When adding the stat cat to my subfield, will I want to add the id or label. |
| 14:01 |
dbwells |
It is label based. I think we thought that would be easier for catalogers. |
| 14:01 |
kmlussier |
dbs: Sure! Anything good? |
| 14:01 |
kmlussier |
dbwells: OK, thanks! :) |
| 14:01 |
* kmlussier |
assumes it is good if it's coming from dbs |
| 14:02 |
dbs |
kmlussier: it's super-minor, just making the permalink icon itself part of the link |
| 14:02 |
dbs |
http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=b5e73ab2eb123d00124575a1ea856b480ed17c7f |
| 14:03 |
kmlussier |
dbs++ |
| 14:03 |
csharp |
bbqben: FYI, I'm here, but I'll need to buzz out at around 14:45 EST to go pick up my son ;-) |
| 14:04 |
bbqben |
csharp 10-4 |
| 14:04 |
bbqben |
ok, let's get rolling |
| 14:04 |
bbqben |
#startmeeting Evergreen Oversight Board Meeting, 19.02.15 |
| 14:04 |
pinesol_green |
Meeting started Thu Feb 19 14:04:10 2015 US/Eastern. The chair is bbqben. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:04 |
pinesol_green |
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. |
| 14:04 |
pinesol_green |
The meeting name has been set to 'evergreen_oversight_board_meeting__19_02_15' |
| 14:04 |
bbqben |
#topic introductions |
| 14:04 |
bbqben |
EOB members, please introduce yourself with #info |
| 14:04 |
csharp |
#info csharp is Chris Sharp, GPLS |
| 14:04 |
graced |
#info graced is Grace Dunbar, ESI |
| 14:04 |
julialima_ |
#info julialima_ = Julia Lima. UI Style Guide (OPW), Argentina. |
| 14:04 |
bshum |
#info bshum is Benjamin Shum, Bibliomation |
| 14:04 |
montgoc_1 |
#info montgoc1 = Chauncey Montgomery, Consortium of Ohio Libraries |
| 14:04 |
bbqben |
#info bbqben = Ben Hyman, BC Libraries Co-op |
| 14:04 |
kmlussier |
#info kmlussier is Kathy Lussier, MassLNC |
| 14:04 |
dbwells |
#info dbwells = Dan Wells, Hekman Library |
| 14:05 |
abneiman |
#info abneiman = Andrea Buntz Neiman, Kent County Public Library |
| 14:05 |
bbqben |
Hi all! |
| 14:05 |
bbqben |
#topic Minutes/Actions from last meeting (15.01.15) |
| 14:05 |
bbqben |
#info http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/doku.php?id=governance:minutes |
| 14:06 |
bbqben |
Looks like actions are covered in today's agenda, mostly. So, moving on... |
| 14:06 |
bbqben |
#topic OPW project update |
| 14:07 |
yboston |
#info yboston is Yamil Suarez @ Berklee College of Music |
| 14:07 |
dbwells |
Good afternoon everyone. The OPW group gave a brief progress report at the dev meeting a couple days ago, and we were invited to do the same for the EOB, and perhaps answer any questions you might have. Our intern julialima_ has joined us today to give the update. |
| 14:07 |
julialima_ |
Good afternoon! We have been working very hard and we have made a lot of progress. |
| 14:07 |
julialima_ |
We are focused, mainly, in ensuring consistency and providing the best user experience we can. Of course it is a working progress, we are still testing some ideas and thinking new solutions for different situations. We still have 3 weeks until my internship is finished so we have a lot of time to try new things. |
| 14:07 |
julialima_ |
You can find the UI style guide in https://github.com/JuliaLima/Evergreen/tree/patch-1/docs/style_guide, remember that we are working on it, so nothing is definitive; and also you can check my blog for updates about our progress: http://lima-julia.tumblr.com/EG-style-guide. |
| 14:08 |
julialima_ |
Feel free to contact us and give your opinion and ideas, we need your feedback in order to improve our work, it is very important for us. |
| 14:08 |
dbwells |
julialima_ also posted a similar update to the mailing list a few days ago, so that might be the best overall venue for feedback at this point. |
| 14:09 |
kmlussier |
julialima++ dbwells++ |
| 14:09 |
bbqben |
julialima++ dbwells++ |
| 14:09 |
bbqben |
any q's from the EOB at this point that can't be directed to the list? |
| 14:10 |
yboston |
julialima++ dbwells++ |
| 14:10 |
bbqben |
Ok then, thanks for your time today julialima & dbwells |
| 14:11 |
dbwells |
One last thing... |
| 14:11 |
bbqben |
doh - that's julialima_++ |
| 14:11 |
bbqben |
moving on ... |
| 14:11 |
dbwells |
We've also been trying to have weekly conversations in this channel, and the next should be tomorrow at 10:00am (or so). |
| 14:11 |
dbwells |
Thanks, all |
| 14:11 |
bbqben |
dbwells ++ |
| 14:12 |
bbqben |
#topic EG2015 Conference Report |
| 14:12 |
bbqben |
Buzzy sends his regrets but will follow up with a note later on |
| 14:13 |
bbqben |
He did ask that I raise the conference shuttle topic. Seems arranging a shuttle may come in ~$1500 over budget but budget has tolerance as other areas are coming down |
| 14:13 |
bbqben |
I asked that he update us when final number is known and we can amend budget as necessary then |
| 14:13 |
kmlussier |
Sounds good |
| 14:13 |
bshum |
+1 |
| 14:14 |
montgoc_1 |
+1 |
| 14:14 |
bbqben |
Meantime, wondering if conference committee can indicate on the conference site that shuttle arrangements are being explored (unless I missed something already there)? |
| 14:14 |
kmlussier |
bbqben: That should be doable. I can add it now. |
| 14:14 |
bbqben |
kmlussier++ |
| 14:14 |
kmlussier |
If it's not there |
| 14:14 |
abneiman |
also for the conference site -- Amtrak & Greyhound available between Portland and Hood River, for those of us on weirdly-timed flights |
| 14:15 |
csharp |
abneiman++ # I was just wondering about alternatives |
| 14:15 |
bbqben |
abneiman++ |
| 14:15 |
montgoc_1 |
Is the shuttle free for riders or will there be a charge? |
| 14:15 |
kmlussier |
OK, I think I'll reach out to the local planners then since they would be more familiar with those details. :) |
| 14:15 |
bbqben |
I have visions of y'all hitch hiking ;) |
| 14:15 |
kmlussier |
montgoc_1: It will be free for riders. |
| 14:16 |
kmlussier |
It's one of the opportunities for sponsorship. |
| 14:16 |
|
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| 14:16 |
bbqben |
kmlussier "sponsor a hitchhiker" ? |
| 14:16 |
montgoc_1 |
OK. Just wondering if we could charge a small fee if it goes over budget? |
| 14:16 |
yboston |
+1 |
| 14:17 |
bbqben |
ok, moving on |
| 14:17 |
csharp |
we have a very good track record for conferences not exceeding budgets, so I'm not concerned |
| 14:17 |
abneiman |
+1 with a small fee for shuttle, if it means keeping in budget |
| 14:17 |
kmlussier |
I agree with csharp. I don't have any concerns with the budget so far. buzzy built in a lot of padding in other places. |
| 14:17 |
csharp |
(having said that, I'm cool with a fee too) |
| 14:18 |
graced |
+1 to a fee it if it's communicated clearly in advance. |
| 14:18 |
bbqben |
#action pending final EG15 shuttle costing, amend budget/consider nominal shuttle fee |
| 14:18 |
bbqben |
#topic Financial Report |
| 14:19 |
bbqben |
#info http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2015-February/000954.html |
| 14:19 |
bbqben |
bshum ++ |
| 14:19 |
bbqben |
Good to see registration $ trickling in |
| 14:20 |
bbqben |
#action - all - register for EG15 and get the word out |
| 14:20 |
kmlussier |
An action item I've already accomplished! Yay! :) |
| 14:20 |
bbqben |
Any q's / concerns re: finances? |
| 14:20 |
yboston |
me too |
| 14:21 |
bbqben |
Ok, moving on in 10.... |
| 14:21 |
bbqben |
#Topic Evergreen 2.8 Release Manager's Report |
| 14:22 |
bbqben |
berick or bshum out there? |
| 14:23 |
graced |
Didn't berick say this conflicted with another meeting he has? |
| 14:23 |
* bshum |
is not release manager, so crawls back under his rock |
| 14:23 |
bshum |
But that said. |
| 14:23 |
bshum |
The deadline for 2.8 beta new features merge is tomorrow. |
| 14:23 |
bshum |
And berick says he's going to cut 2.8 beta next week. |
| 14:23 |
bshum |
I'm sure he'll send out some summary information to the lists. |
| 14:24 |
bbqben |
bhsum++ minutes from last said "bhsum will coordinate with berick pre EOB mtgs for pithy update" - you've just succeeded :) |
| 14:25 |
bbqben |
any q's for berick via bshum that can't be handled via the list(s)? |
| 14:26 |
bbqben |
Hearing none, we're moving on ... |
| 14:26 |
bbqben |
#Topic 2015 EOB Elections |
| 14:26 |
bbqben |
#Info http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2015-February/000950.html |
| 14:26 |
|
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| 14:27 |
kmlussier |
I'm in favor of keeping the Board size to 9 members. |
| 14:27 |
bbqben |
So, the gist: Its with us to consider whether we keep the EOB at 9 member or reduce to 7. |
| 14:28 |
kmlussier |
I think it's worked well in the past year. |
| 14:28 |
bshum |
+1 to keeping to 9 and doing 3 election seats per year. |
| 14:28 |
csharp |
+1 |
| 14:28 |
abneiman |
+1 |
| 14:28 |
montgoc_1 |
+1 |
| 14:29 |
yboston |
+1 |
| 14:29 |
bbqben |
graced ? |
| 14:29 |
graced |
I'm actually in favor of a smaller board - but I'm clearly outvoted. :-) |
| 14:30 |
bbqben |
:) |
| 14:30 |
kmlussier |
graced: Any particular reasons that we may be missing? Maybe we can be swayed. |
| 14:31 |
graced |
I think we can represent most (or all) of the Evergreen community with 7. |
| 14:32 |
graced |
And I wonder if involvement/discourse would increase wiht a smaller board. |
| 14:32 |
graced |
but it's probably not worth it just for the experiment - it would be better if I had something empirical to back it up. |
| 14:33 |
graced |
I'm more curious as to why everyone else is completely set on 9. |
| 14:33 |
kmlussier |
I will say that in some elections, it was difficult to find candidates, which was one conern for me. |
| 14:33 |
montgoc_1 |
In general I think smaller boards are more active, agile, and move faster. However, this group now seems to work well with 9. |
| 14:34 |
kmlussier |
But we didn't seem to have that problem last year. I think if we started to struggle with candidates again, I might want to reconsider. |
| 14:34 |
kmlussier |
But I won't be on the Board by then. :) |
| 14:34 |
graced |
lame duck! :) |
| 14:34 |
kmlussier |
:) |
| 14:35 |
bbqben |
Noting that I didn't actually call a vote (oops), shall we do that or are we essentially at consensus here? |
| 14:35 |
kmlussier |
graced: I can't say I have a particular reason other than what montgoc_1 said about it seeming to work well this year. I also like the idea of doing elections for the same # of seats each year. |
| 14:37 |
graced |
kmlussier: well, there's consensus and I have no compelling reason to sway anyone so, I think it's good to stay where we are if everyone is happy. |
| 14:38 |
bbqben |
ok then - thanks for the discussion - let the minutes reflect that #Action Maintain EOB composition at 9 members, with 3 election seats per year |
| 14:38 |
bbqben |
and this leaves some of the work from last meeting still: #Action bbqben abneiman and graced to draft amendment to rules if we don't want to use STV; nominations language; get the vote out materials |
| 14:39 |
abneiman |
I was going to ask about that -- did we want to talk about SVT vs other options as part of today's discussion? |
| 14:41 |
bbqben |
abneiman - sure could. IIRC STV is the solution that SFC can provide for us. Now that we know we're looking at 3 seats, if we explain how STV works to the community in advance, are we ok using it? Else, we'll need to find a differenmt solution. |
| 14:41 |
csharp |
I think we need a different solution |
| 14:41 |
csharp |
I found SVT to be confusing and without a clear benefit |
| 14:42 |
graced |
Well it certainly was confusing! |
| 14:42 |
abneiman |
I don't oppose STV per se, as long as it's clearly explained to the community -- I just wonder if it isn't too complicated for what we're going for. |
| 14:42 |
graced |
Agreed, it wasn't explained well and may be overkill for our community. |
| 14:42 |
montgoc_1 |
abneiman: agreed |
| 14:42 |
csharp |
and informal conversations about it with others bore out my impressions about it |
| 14:43 |
bbqben |
csharp - any suggested solutions? Don't think we'd need anything too terribly robust, but the solution should guard against vote stacking (i.e. one entry per IP address) |
| 14:43 |
bbqben |
oh, and no dimpled ballots either |
| 14:43 |
csharp |
I think there are many many possibilities out to accommodate a straight count vote |
| 14:43 |
kmlussier |
One entry per IP address? Would that cause issues for two people from the same organization voting? |
| 14:44 |
abneiman |
Frankly, SurveyMonkey did fine for the first two years -- I'm pretty sure you can set it to one entry per computer. |
| 14:44 |
csharp |
surveymonkey is definitely a contender in my mind, and yes you can limit responses per IP |
| 14:44 |
abneiman |
Of course a committed fraudster could still go around that -- but I don't know that is a huge concern with us. I'm more concerned about making voting easy & accessible. |
| 14:44 |
csharp |
however, crafty vote stackers would get around that too (though I don't think that's really a concern |
| 14:44 |
csharp |
) |
| 14:45 |
csharp |
abneiman: jinx! |
| 14:45 |
abneiman |
LOL @ csharp, clearly we're the criminal minds here |
| 14:45 |
csharp |
and with that, I need to buzz out and go pick up my kid from school |
| 14:45 |
csharp |
laterz |
| 14:45 |
bbqben |
#info http://help.surveymonkey.com/articles/en_US/kb/What-settings-allow-multiple-responses-from-one-computer |
| 14:45 |
bbqben |
csharp++ |
| 14:46 |
Dyrcona |
I just want to point out that one vote per IP would prevent different people from voting if they're behind a NAT'd firewall/router. |
| 14:46 |
eeevil |
there's also this: https://github.com/code4lib/diebold-o-tron |
| 14:47 |
eeevil |
(how code4lib votes on program and hosting proposals) |
| 14:47 |
abneiman |
"Email invitation collector" on SurveyMonkey would avoid that IP issue |
| 14:48 |
bbqben |
Cool - graced abneiman - should we bundle a quick review of surveymonley & github options (possibly others) with our todo list? |
| 14:48 |
graced |
+1 to that |
| 14:48 |
abneiman |
sure |
| 14:49 |
bbqben |
Drycona++ eeevil++ |
| 14:49 |
bbqben |
#action bbqben graced abneiman review EOB voting platforms including github, surveymonkey |
| 14:49 |
eeevil |
FTR, diebold-o-tron uses oauth2, so we should be able to wire it up to facebook/google/twitter ;) |
| 14:50 |
abneiman |
eeevil: and it has that confidence-inspiring name.... |
| 14:50 |
* graced |
makes a note to get eeevil to ghost write that portion |
| 14:50 |
bbqben |
Giggling here |
| 14:51 |
bbqben |
Moving on .... |
| 14:51 |
bbqben |
#Topic Increasing Evergreen's visibility in the larger library community |
| 14:51 |
bbqben |
#Info http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/eg-oversight-board/2015-February/000951.html |
| 14:51 |
bbqben |
Over to you kmlussier |
| 14:51 |
kmlussier |
I don't have anything to add to my email. I just would like to hear what everyone thinks about the proposal. |
| 14:52 |
bshum |
+1 to kmlussier's proposal |
| 14:52 |
bshum |
I only wish I was going to ALA to help :) |
| 14:52 |
montgoc_1 |
+1 |
| 14:52 |
yboston |
+1 |
| 14:52 |
kmlussier |
And, if you like the idea behind it, would it be okay for the MassLNC partners to line something up for San Francisco? |
| 14:52 |
abneiman |
I think it's a great idea! |
| 14:52 |
graced |
I think it's a good experiment. +1 |
| 14:54 |
bbqben |
Kudos to MassLNC partners and kmlussier for their leadership on this |
| 14:54 |
graced |
kmlussier++ |
| 14:54 |
bbqben |
kmlussier++ |
| 14:54 |
kmlussier |
To start things off, I think we would need to put out a call for volunteers to serve on the committee and contact the SFC regarding a good way to do targeted fundraising. |
| 14:54 |
montgoc_1 |
kmlussier++ |
| 14:55 |
abneiman |
kmlussier++ |
| 14:55 |
graced |
As someone who knows a lot about setting up booths at ALA I volunteer to serve. |
| 14:55 |
bbqben |
The proposal calls for the establishment of a fund and that a PR committee be struck by the EOB....before calling a vote on these two items ... |
| 14:57 |
bbqben |
wondering if we want to put parentheses around the scope - e.g. pilot the initiative through Dec 2016 with a designated list of events/conferences. Mainly to frame expectations and such. Thoughts? |
| 14:57 |
kmlussier |
bbqben: I like that idea |
| 14:58 |
graced |
I think that's a good time frame |
| 14:59 |
bbqben |
ok, maybe best if that scope get written into the committee's terms of reference |
| 14:59 |
abneiman |
Other than ALA what conferences did you have in mind for this year? |
| 15:00 |
kmlussier |
abneiman: Beyond ALA, I was thinking it would be good for the committee to nail those down. |
| 15:00 |
abneiman |
Right on |
| 15:00 |
kmlussier |
PLA is one that crossed my mind. I'm not sure about MidWinter. The Canadian Library Association seemed like it might be another good venue. |
| 15:00 |
graced |
next year PLA for sure... |
| 15:01 |
kmlussier |
I think the important thing is it has to be places that Evergreen community members are already attending. |
| 15:01 |
bbqben |
For Canada, the Ontario "SuperConference" is about 4 times the size of CLA - might be a better fit. |
| 15:01 |
abneiman |
Computers in Libraries is a smaller, but more focused one to keep in mind. This year's is the end of April, which is probably too short notice (but I may be attending). |
| 15:01 |
bbqben |
Internet Librarian? |
| 15:02 |
kmlussier |
bbqben: Ah, that's good to know re SuperConference |
| 15:02 |
graced |
Special Libraries Association would be good, too. |
| 15:02 |
graced |
And it's in Boston in June this year. |
| 15:02 |
* graced |
looks at kmlussier |
| 15:03 |
kmlussier |
graced: It depends if I still have to drive through mounds of snow to get there. |
| 15:03 |
bbqben |
So, thinking about the sequence of all of this, and hearing that folks like the proposal ... |
| 15:03 |
kmlussier |
I think we near to be fairly targeted to start with. |
| 15:03 |
graced |
Fair. I'll give you a pass if there's still snow in June. |
| 15:04 |
bbqben |
looks like we need volunteers first - noting that graced has already - others? |
| 15:04 |
kmlussier |
I don't think it just needs to be EOB members to volunteer. |
| 15:04 |
kmlussier |
Oh, but I volunteer. If it wasn't clear. |
| 15:04 |
bbqben |
kmlussier good point |
| 15:05 |
bbqben |
kmlussier & graced willing to pull together a pithy terms of reference? Following which we can do a call for interest and establish budget, then setup the account? |
| 15:05 |
kmlussier |
I see it as something similar to the Merchandising Committee. |
| 15:06 |
graced |
I am willing (and hopefully able) |
| 15:06 |
kmlussier |
bbqben: You're looking for a terms of reference more detailed than what was in the proposal? |
| 15:06 |
bbqben |
kmlussier - just to include the 2016 scope and maybe a proposed budget too |
| 15:07 |
* dbs |
as an OLA board member perks up at the mention of SuperConference |
| 15:07 |
bbqben |
dbs++ |
| 15:07 |
dbs |
CLA is not a good venue, it has a very uncertain future |
| 15:08 |
kmlussier |
bbqben: OK. |
| 15:08 |
kmlussier |
Is there any problem with starting the process of getting the ALA booth in the meantime? Since we already have a few organizations already committed to funding it? |
| 15:09 |
bbqben |
#Action kmlussier and graced refine PUBLIC RELATIONS PROPOSAL to include 2016 scope and proposed budget |
| 15:09 |
bbqben |
kmlussier I don't see a problem with that at all |
| 15:09 |
* bshum |
agrees, go ahead and get this year's ALA booth in motion. |
| 15:10 |
kmlussier |
It might be good to have a Canadian rep on the committee. |
| 15:10 |
bshum |
+1 Canada |
| 15:10 |
bbqben |
We can vote to establish the project fund at the next meeting |
| 15:11 |
kmlussier |
Also, we were thinking it would be good to get some meeting space at the conference (only about $80) so that we can have a general meeting among Evergreen users. Or interested Evergreen users. |
| 15:11 |
bbqben |
kmlussier - will talk it up here for sure! |
| 15:11 |
graced |
I'd love to see Evergreen users take over the unconference space for a meeting though - make it more visible. |
| 15:12 |
kmlussier |
graced: Yes, absolutely. |
| 15:12 |
graced |
so, both! |
| 15:14 |
bbqben |
thanks again for bringing this proposal forward kmlussier++ |
| 15:14 |
graced |
kmlussier++ |
| 15:14 |
bbqben |
and your support of it graced++ |
| 15:14 |
kmlussier |
Kudos really go to Ron Gagnon at NOBLE who was the inspiration for this idea. |
| 15:15 |
gmcharlt |
(and who, BTW, is slated to speak at a session at ALA re managers & open source) |
| 15:15 |
kmlussier |
gmcharlt: Yes, that's right. |
| 15:15 |
bbqben |
We need a Ron Gagnon mascot for the booth then |
| 15:15 |
bbqben |
#Topic New Business |
| 15:15 |
bbqben |
Anyone? |
| 15:16 |
kmlussier |
And kudos should also go to Tim Spindler, C/W MARS, and Eric Graham, MVLC, for supporting it very quickly and pledging funds (along with Ron.) |
| 15:16 |
graced |
All those people++ |
| 15:16 |
bbqben |
that's a more complex mascot |
| 15:16 |
kmlussier |
It would require photoshop |
| 15:16 |
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| 15:16 |
yboston |
did we ever hear back fromt he SFC or OCLC about sharing MARC records? |
| 15:16 |
* kmlussier |
waves to RoganH |
| 15:17 |
bbqben |
kmlussier please do relay our thanks to All those people |
| 15:17 |
kmlussier |
yboston: No |
| 15:17 |
yboston |
thanks |
| 15:17 |
RoganH |
sorry, day has been chaos with people calling in sick like crazy |
| 15:18 |
bbqben |
RoganH no worries |
| 15:18 |
bbqben |
#Topic Next Meeting |
| 15:18 |
bbqben |
Looks like we meet 19.03.15 @ 11 Pacific |
| 15:19 |
bbqben |
And unless anyone has other topics - thanks all for your time today - chat with you in a month or less. |
| 15:19 |
bbqben |
#endmeeting |
| 15:19 |
pinesol_green |
Meeting ended Thu Feb 19 15:19:30 2015 US/Eastern. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 15:19 |
pinesol_green |
Minutes: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2015/evergreen.2015-02-19-14.04.html |
| 15:19 |
pinesol_green |
Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2015/evergreen.2015-02-19-14.04.txt |
| 15:19 |
pinesol_green |
Log: http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergreen/2015/evergreen.2015-02-19-14.04.log.html |
| 15:19 |
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| 15:19 |
graced |
just in time - gotta go pickup the twins! |
| 15:19 |
graced |
bbqben++ |
| 15:19 |
kmlussier |
bbqben++ |
| 15:19 |
graced |
bye everyone |
| 15:20 |
montgoc_1 |
bbqben++ |
| 15:20 |
abneiman |
bbqben++ |
| 15:20 |
bshum |
bbqben++ |
| 15:20 |
yboston |
bbqben++ |
| 15:39 |
* Dyrcona |
waits on a marc_export....and waits. |
| 15:41 |
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| 15:41 |
bshum |
FYI, kmlussier and I are poking at the GSOC application. |
| 15:43 |
Dyrcona |
MARCXML files can be ridiculously huge. Just an observation. |
| 15:47 |
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| 15:52 |
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| 16:04 |
kmlussier |
dbs: I signed off on your commit if you want to merge it. http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/user/kmlussier/lp1422555_link_permalink_image |
| 16:04 |
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| 16:21 |
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| 16:22 |
* bshum |
pushes it along for kmlussier/dbs |
| 16:23 |
dbs |
aw, sweet, thanks bshum + kmlussier |
| 16:24 |
jboyer-isl |
A fun (nee lame) mystery solved: Running Icinga on a 4 core VM with 370 checks will boost the load on the host by at least 14, while the load on the vm doesn't top 3. Good, good times figuring that one out. |
| 16:24 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Dan Scott] lp1422555: Link permalink icon on record summary - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=4b30fb8> |
| 16:25 |
bshum |
jboyer-isl: That sounds... "special" |
| 16:25 |
bshum |
dbs++ kmlussier++ |
| 16:27 |
kmlussier |
Hmmm...is bug 1287370 considered new feature or bug fix? I just want to know if I should worry about testing it by tomorrow or not. |
| 16:27 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1287370 in Evergreen "Funds Go Back Option Takes User Back to the First Fund Screen" (affected: 5, heat: 26) [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287370 |
| 16:28 |
dbs |
bug 1423585 is a nice, lightweight feature :) |
| 16:28 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1423585 in Evergreen "TPAC discoverability: include Open Graph Protocol markup for bonus points" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423585 |
| 16:30 |
bshum |
kmlussier: That's a hard one to say. As reported, it's defined like a bug. But as written, the new Autogrid stuff looks more new featurish to me. |
| 16:30 |
bshum |
That said, if it backports cleanly, I'd be tempted to make it a bug fix then. |
| 16:30 |
dbs |
I need to talk with my friends at U of Toronto to find out how they're generating covers like http://cover.library.utoronto.ca/index.php/2390072/200 |
| 16:31 |
bshum |
dbs: That sounds fancy. |
| 16:31 |
dbs |
I say it's a bug fix |
| 16:31 |
bshum |
So let it be done. |
| 16:32 |
kmlussier |
OK, well if I have time I'll test it anyway because our people would like to see it. And who knows when I'll get back to testing. |
| 16:32 |
kmlussier |
But there is always bug squashing day. :) |
| 16:54 |
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| 16:54 |
jonadab |
dbs: That _looks_ like it could just be a static background image with text added. Probably could be done with imagemagick. |
| 16:55 |
jonadab |
That's a guess, though. |
| 16:56 |
tsbere |
Rig addedcontent to say "oh, hey, the provider gave us didlysquat, lets make one and jam it into memcache"? ;) |
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pinesol_green |
Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html> |
| 17:28 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Galen Charlton] LP#1378169: make context OU selector on funds page sticky - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=8e8c2a8> |
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