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IRC log for #evergreen, 2014-09-29

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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05:53 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
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09:39 kmlussier csharp: On bug 1267129, don't we still have the issue where "Matches Exactly" should be wrapping the search query in quotation marks?
09:39 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1267129 in Evergreen "Matches exactly search retrieval issue for 2.5.1" (affected: 2, heat: 16) [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267129
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09:49 csharp kmlussier: I marked it incomplete because dbs asked a clarification question that didn't get answered
09:51 kmlussier Ah, I see.
09:54 kmlussier Heh, the question wasn't directed to me, but I'm tempted to answer it because we just had a discussion hear recently about why Matches Exactly requires both 245a and 245b.
09:54 kmlussier s/hear/here
09:55 csharp kmlussier: you should respond anyway IMHO :-)
09:56 csharp it sounds like it's still an issue that needs some sort of resolution
09:56 kmlussier csharp: Yup! I will when I get a chance. :)
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10:05 dbs kmlussier++
10:05 dbs csharp++
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10:30 kmlussier It's National Coffee Day! Should be a national holiday.
10:31 kmlussier @coffee [someone]
10:31 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of "Kona Sweet" 100% Kona, and sends it sliding down the bar to dreuther_
10:32 csharp @who [coffee]?
10:32 * pinesol_green yboston brews and pours a cup of Colombia Cauca, Special Micro-Lot Selection Juvenal Penna, and sends it sliding down the bar to csharp.
10:32 csharp heh
10:32 kmlussier Cool!
10:33 kmlussier @who [coffee][someone]
10:33 * pinesol_green berick brews and pours a cup of Espresso Nuevo, and sends it sliding down the bar to kmlussier sbrylander.
10:33 kmlussier OK, that didn't work out exactly as I expected.
10:34 berick heh
10:34 berick either way.. coffee
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10:37 jeff coffee++
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11:01 bshum csharp: https://shaaaaaaaaaaaaa.com/  :D
11:01 bshum jeff++
11:11 jeff that's 13 "a"s -- as the site puts it... hrm. can't find the quote now. it was just pointing out that it was a prime number.
11:18 kmlussier dbs / csharp: Added a comment to bug 1267129. However, as I was thinking it through, I came to the same conclusion I always come to when looking at the "Matches Exactly" option. It's just a terrible search option to use because the user need to know exactly how the title was added, along with any punctuation that was used.
11:18 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1267129 in Evergreen "Matches exactly search retrieval issue for 2.5.1" (affected: 2, heat: 16) [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267129
11:19 kmlussier It seems like you're more likely to have a failed search using that option than you are to have a successful search.
11:27 * kmlussier has also never been a big fan of having the Matches Exactly and Starts With searches available when "Keyword" can be selected since those searches will probably always fail.
11:34 * dbs is with kmlussier
11:35 * csharp agrees too
11:35 dbs http://coffeecode.ca/2014/i-believe-that-the-a​dvanced-search-interface-in-systems-generally
11:35 csharp dbs++
11:41 RoganH FWIW I agree as well.
11:42 kmlussier So can we rip those two search options out of the advanced search page then? Of course, after sending the suggestion along to the Evergreen general list for feedback.
11:42 RoganH I would vote yes to ripping both out.
11:43 RoganH I think there is a population that thinks they will be useful and they will be wrong and frustrated trying to use them and then they think the software doesn't work right.
11:43 kmlussier Two of our consortia have already removed them locally, and I suppose it could remain a local customization, but I think it eventually leads to bug reports because they lead to so many failed searches.
11:46 * kmlussier decides that Monday is a good day to stir the pot and will write an e-mail to the general list.
11:48 RoganH If you want a pot stirred let me write it, I seem to have a talent.  :)
11:49 kmlussier Heh. I firmly believe people need to share the responsibility of stirring the pot.
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12:06 kmlussier Hmmm...actually, the punctuation isn't as much of an issue as it used to be.
12:09 kmlussier Oh, it is an issue if the "Matches Exactly" were indeed surrounding the query in quotation marks.
12:14 Bmagic Is there a piece of glue that I am not aware of that teaches the action triggers about "marklongtermoverdue" - I am troubleshooting an action trigger to do that to items that are overdue 28 days - 29 days. I see rows in action_trigger.event with target=circ.id but the associated copy is not getting it's status changed
12:15 bshum Bmagic: I bet it's a missing param
12:15 bshum If it's anything like MarkLost
12:15 * bshum looks
12:16 bshum Yep
12:16 bshum editor
12:16 bshum Is a required event parameter
12:16 bshum That performs the action
12:16 Bmagic editor is there
12:17 Bmagic I need another?
12:17 bshum If it's there, I guess it would work.  And it looks like it would log that as a failure for the A/T
12:18 * bshum hasn't worked enough with this functionality to know what else might be off.
12:19 Bmagic Rows are getting created in action_trigger.event and they are "completed" - The "target" column is referring to action.circulation.id right?
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12:22 csharp Bmagic: I'm working on getting our LongOverdue stuff going this week - I'll be happy to compare notes
12:22 csharp that feature was added for PINES, btw
12:26 wlayton has anyone tried installing fulfILLment on ubuntu-trusty yet?
12:27 bshum wlayton: I doubt it.
12:27 bshum I know I have not tried fulfillment yet.
12:28 bshum And trusty support was only just started for Evergreen 2.7
12:28 bshum So I somehow doubt all that has made its way to Fulfillment yet.
12:31 wlayton is there a URL missing from Step 3 under "Installation" on this page? http://fulfillment-ill.org/downloads.php
12:31 wlayton git clone ....?
12:32 bshum wlayton: I asked berick about that once, because it seems the fulfillment git repo is borked and not actually cloning master
12:32 bshum Or at least the last time I tried, it only cloned master of a certain point and not the whole repo
12:33 bshum That URL does clone something though, using http protocol
12:33 bshum Oh wait
12:33 bshum I see what you're saying
12:34 bshum That's probably supposed to be
12:34 bshum git://git.evergreen-ils.org/SIPServer
12:34 bshum Since they're talking about SIP
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12:53 eeevil bshum: https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1374091 updated
12:53 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1374091 in Evergreen master "unapi.bre and slow views" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,New]
12:55 bshum eeevil++
12:55 bshum I'll turn on metarecords in our test DB to look at that. We don't have them in production.
12:59 eeevil bshum: note the change to the view, as well. that was force-pushed
12:59 eeevil IOW, the first commit is different
13:00 bshum eeevil: yep, already pushed that new commit to production
13:00 eeevil ahh, good
13:21 * dbs wonders if "gone girl" (without quotes) results in the desired Gone Girl being one of the top hits out of the 208 elaine mentioned. because if it is, then i don't much care if there are 207 other hits, personally
13:22 dbs #1 hit on GA PINES
13:22 dbs (for a default keyword search). Seems fine to me
13:24 kmlussier dbs: I could probably find some other examples where the unquoted search doesn't work as well.
13:24 dbs gone girl as a title search gets five of the top ten hitting the desired novel
13:25 dbs kmlussier: oh sure, I'm just trying to keep all of the parameters in mind
13:25 * jeff proposes PerfectSearch
13:25 kmlussier dbs: Yup!
13:26 jeff "Thank you for trying the Beta of our new PerfectSearch feature! Unfortunately, an administrator has not yet configured the correct search results for the terms which you entered. Please try back later!"
13:26 * dbs tries to teach people to treat it like Google. quote stuff that you want (roughly) exactly, -prefix stuff you don't want
13:27 kmlussier I think the examples I've seen that are the hardest to find are one-word 245a titles with something else in the 245b. But I would prefer to see it improved through better relevancy.
13:27 dbs kmlussier: I hear you.
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14:01 kmlussier csharp: See what happens when you mark a bug as incomplete? ;)
14:04 csharp heh
14:04 csharp yeah, I guess I'm happy to see movement on it
14:06 wlayton sorry, a bit of a dumb question -- how to do I launch the fulfILLment client on Linux?
14:10 bshum Hmm
14:10 bshum For xul side, maybe that's something that needs compiling, if not already existing.
14:10 bshum For client, I would expect a browser URL.
14:12 * bshum imagines eeevil might know the answer to wlayton's question. Or someone else from ESI.
14:14 * RoganH_ always think of non-useful answers like "sacrifice chicken to dark gods" to questions like that.
14:15 eeevil wlayton: you mean the xul staff client? or the day-to-day web interface for staff
14:16 wlayton either/both
14:16 wlayton I just installed it and want to try out some stuff
14:18 wlayton (fulfILLment was added as something to be explored at today's Access hackfest : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MhhY5R​k73THD4gHq-0J8LknlOL0XDDkGKKzspJmOQF8/edit )
14:19 eeevil wlayton: the web UI is ... a web UI
14:19 eeevil and the xul client is the same as the evergreen one, but with some menu options stripped out
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14:39 Bmagic csharp: alright, let me know when you have a minute
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15:26 kmlussier It looks like bug 1248223 is no longer an issue because a search for "^Decade$" will successfully retrieve titles with a forward slash at the end.
15:26 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1248223 in Evergreen "Exact title search doesn't find the title as shown in the search results screen" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248223
15:27 kmlussier But maybe it can be changed into a more general bug regarding normalization of punctuation in anchored searches?
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16:31 jeff hrm. 2.5.1 client at a busy circ desk seems to reliably "freeze" around the same time every day. connecting just now, staff client was using somewhere between 1 and 2 gigabytes of memory, and was hovering at about 50% CPU (may have been pegging a core)
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16:46 dbs webby webby webby webby
16:47 kmlussier webby++
16:49 jeff yeah.
16:49 jeff and in the meantime, perhaps a pinned taskbar icon/shortcut to kill the client. :P
16:50 kmlussier jeff: Last I checked with NOBLE, I heard that they still hear some reports of high memory use at their busier libraries. But I haven't checked in a while.
16:51 RoganH Yeah, I have the same experience as you jeff.  We await webby with bated breath.
16:51 jeff oh, and look! i'm demonstrating webby at an upcoming user group meeting. timely!
16:51 * jeff grins
16:52 kmlussier That reminds me of a question I had about webby last week. I know it's available in preview mode for 2.7. Is it the hope/plan to have webby circ available for production use in 2.next?
16:54 RoganH We chatted about that a bit last week.  I think there was hesitation to call it "production ready" in 2.next as that might imply certain things for certain users.
16:55 RoganH With that said I'm going to put it into production and see what we see.
16:55 jeff this agenda item says it'll be the default when 2.8 is released! [kidding! not official fact!]
16:55 * jeff ducks
16:55 RoganH Succeed or fail I'd rather learn from it while folks can fall back on the xul client.
16:56 kmlussier The thing is, until people start using it at a live circ desk, we won't really know what all the bugs are, no matter how well we test it.
16:56 bshum kmlussier: I'd be reluctant to call webby production ready till we've got more modules done for inter-related workflows.
16:56 bshum Basic circ, sure. But people need to often do more.
16:57 kmlussier bshum: Sure, but I can think of many libraries that have workstations that are primarily circ only.
16:57 bshum People can decide to try and use what they can get. I'm sure we will too.
16:57 RoganH kmlussier: precisely, my front desk circ machines I think will be able to use it.  Back room no but that's ok.
16:57 kmlussier And those tend to be the circ workstations that are also very busy and likely to freeze.
16:58 bshum And we did talk about back porting bug fixes through to 2.7 for circ as needed.
16:58 RoganH bshum: but not further than 2.7, right?
16:59 bshum As 2.7 maintainer, that's on my watch.
16:59 kmlussier bshum: Well, I don't think we'll be using webby in production for 2.7 anyway, so that's a good thing.
16:59 bshum Correct, nothing prior to 2.7. And we won't backport cataloging to 2.7
17:00 bshum kmlussier: do you really expect the circ client to change *that* much between 2.7 and 2.8 other than us removing the "preview" warning from the notes though?
17:01 bshum Seems to me we are more likely to just see more incremental fixes on the existing structure.
17:01 kmlussier bshum: The circ web client? Based on the bug reports I'm submitting, I expect to see a big difference in fixes from 2.7.0 to 2.8.0
17:01 bshum So why wouldn't 2.7's circ module be usable in that sense for a circ-only world? Kll
17:01 kmlussier Obviously, it will get better as we move along in 2.7
17:01 * bshum shrugs
17:02 bshum Bug reports = stuff for backport.
17:02 bshum So maybe 2.7.0 isn't production ready.
17:03 bshum Oh well, anyways
17:04 bshum Maybe we should just call it a perpetual beta and just go with it. :)
17:08 * bshum goes back to poking at his house of cards that he calls servers...
17:32 jeffdavis jeff: FWIW, we still see staff client memory issues with the 2.6 client.
17:34 jeffdavis I wrote up a survey last week to try and narrow down which usage patterns cause the biggest problems.
17:35 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
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18:35 csharp jeff: we have some libraries reporting the same thing about freezes/high RAM usage
18:36 csharp but other libraries *never* see the problem, so we don't know how to track it
18:37 csharp jeffdavis: I'll be very interested in the results of your survey
19:15 jeff since the report is "always around the same time", i'm guessing that a periodic restart of the client will be a useful preventative measure.
19:15 jeff but we shall see.
19:23 jeffdavis That's the advice we give our sites too, and it helps.
19:24 jeffdavis We've also had a few sites claim it happens "randomly" to them though.
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