| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:25 |
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| 01:14 |
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| 02:14 |
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| 08:02 |
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| 08:07 |
* csharp |
thinks we should have a channel bot renaming contest |
| 08:08 |
csharp |
"pinesol_green" has never caught my fancy |
| 08:22 |
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| 08:22 |
jboyer-isl |
Eversol_Pinehurst_Esq |
| 08:23 |
jboyer-isl |
Very distinguished. |
| 08:36 |
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| 08:40 |
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| 08:47 |
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| 08:49 |
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| 08:55 |
bshum |
Heh, happy sys admin day! |
| 09:00 |
jboyer-isl |
I got you a gift! |
| 09:00 |
jboyer-isl |
It’s a server crash! |
| 09:01 |
* mmorgan |
guesses sysadmins should be appreciated at least once a year ;-) |
| 09:04 |
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| 09:05 |
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| 09:05 |
* Dyrcona |
now has to remember how to use yaz-client to check something. |
| 09:07 |
kmlussier |
Good morning! |
| 09:07 |
kmlussier |
tspindler: Chrome Vox was never a problem with autosuggest. |
| 09:08 |
tspindler |
kmlussier: ok, is there something free we can test it with then we have it on ou a dev server |
| 09:15 |
tspindler |
@coffeee |
| 09:15 |
pinesol_green |
tspindler: Zoia knows how to make fusilli. |
| 09:15 |
kmlussier |
Heh |
| 09:16 |
kmlussier |
Shouldn't that say pinesol_green instead of zoia? |
| 09:16 |
kmlussier |
@coffee tspindler |
| 09:16 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a cup of "Kona Sweet" 100% Kona, and sends it sliding down the bar to tspindler |
| 09:16 |
mmorgan |
Can't make coffee when you haven't had coffee yet ... |
| 09:16 |
kmlussier |
It was the extra "e" |
| 09:17 |
tspindler |
kmlussier: well I gusse mmorgan is correct |
| 09:17 |
tspindler |
can't type either |
| 09:17 |
kmlussier |
LOL |
| 09:18 |
kmlussier |
I'm okay with keeping pinesol_green's the name as is. But I would like it on record that she's female. |
| 09:30 |
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| 09:32 |
krvmga |
i didn't see anything on launchpad so i thought i'd ask if anyone had received reports of Snow Leopard Safari 5.1.10 users not staying logged in the opac after they checked the Stay logged in checkbox? |
| 09:33 |
krvmga |
i was not able to duplicate the problem on Windows 7 Safari 5.1.7. |
| 09:33 |
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| 09:35 |
Dyrcona |
I swear someone filed a bug about Z39.50 and UTF8 before, but I can't find it on Launchpad. |
| 09:39 |
|
RoganH joined #evergreen |
| 09:39 |
Dyrcona |
Nor do I find what looks like a relevant email in my bugs folder, and it goes back to November of 2012. |
| 09:42 |
krvmga |
Dyrcona: i hate when stuff like that happens |
| 09:42 |
Dyrcona |
Well, I could be confused. I imagine it would have been filed by paxed or Eva (from the Czech Republic). |
| 09:42 |
Dyrcona |
Eva has filed a lot of character set related bugs. |
| 09:44 |
Dyrcona |
But, nothing about Z39.50... I swear there was a bug with a subject like "...search national library..." but I'm hallucinating. |
| 09:45 |
|
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| 09:45 |
Dyrcona |
Fix ALL THE BUGS!!! |
| 09:57 |
jeff |
</endmeeting> |
| 09:57 |
* jeff |
grins |
| 10:00 |
Dyrcona |
o.O |
| 10:20 |
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| 10:31 |
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| 10:47 |
csharp |
@praise the world's sys admins |
| 10:47 |
* pinesol_green |
the world's sys admins is one of the few who deserves to be praised |
| 10:47 |
csharp |
heh |
| 10:48 |
kmlussier |
sys_admins++ |
| 10:48 |
kmlussier |
y'all make my life easier. :) |
| 10:53 |
krvmga |
re TPAC: one of the things that has always puzzled me is why the div code containing homesearch.tt2 is in home.tt2. it seems to work just as well if you put the code in homsearch.tt2 instead and just let home.tt2 be a container. |
| 10:55 |
bshum |
krvmga: That's been an ongoing restructuring that's happened as people play with the tt2 code. I know I did some of that when we were poking at some of the elements for mobile catalog. If we can move (or remove) divs, etc. to be in their proper places, I'm +1 to that. |
| 10:56 |
* bshum |
hasn't looked at that one in particular though |
| 10:56 |
bshum |
Submit a patch, maybe that'll be the future ;) |
| 10:57 |
|
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| 10:58 |
krvmga |
my home.tt2 is only this now: |
| 10:58 |
krvmga |
[% PROCESS "opac/parts/header.tt2"; |
| 10:58 |
krvmga |
WRAPPER "opac/parts/base.tt2"; |
| 10:58 |
krvmga |
INCLUDE "opac/parts/topnav.tt2"; |
| 10:58 |
krvmga |
ctx.page_title = l("Home") %] |
| 10:58 |
krvmga |
[% INCLUDE "opac/parts/searchbar.tt2" %] |
| 10:58 |
krvmga |
[% INCLUDE "opac/parts/homesearch.tt2" %] |
| 10:58 |
krvmga |
[% END %] |
| 10:59 |
krvmga |
i'll submit a patch for home.tt2 and homesearch.tt2 then |
| 11:01 |
jboyer-isl |
I’d even vote to just put the contents of homesearch.tt2 into home.tt2 and just have the 1 file. homesearch.tt2 is not referenced anywhere else. (that a grep -r homesearch.t2 * can see.) |
| 11:01 |
jboyer-isl |
It also has nothing to do with searching, per se. (because searchbar.tt2...) |
| 11:05 |
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| 11:06 |
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| 11:11 |
krvmga |
jboyer-isl: i could make an argument for that. i think my bias is toward a lego brick approach: a plain base that you can blocks on. |
| 11:11 |
krvmga |
put your blocks on |
| 11:12 |
jboyer-isl |
I suppose so. I guess I just like to see at least one “block” in each file. :) |
| 11:13 |
jboyer-isl |
(meaning actual content, now I don’t know if the blocks are the html or the INCLUDEs in this metaphor. :) ) |
| 11:13 |
krvmga |
jboyer-isl: :) |
| 11:14 |
krvmga |
periodically, people come to me with "why don't you put buttons for some canned searches in the white space?" or "why don't you have a carousel that highlights what our libraries are doing?" and other things. |
| 11:16 |
krvmga |
homesearch.tt2, after all, is just a name for a file defining the white space. it could just as well be our-glourious-library-carousel.tt2 |
| 11:17 |
* krvmga |
has spelling influenced by quentin tarantino obviously |
| 11:17 |
kmlussier |
I like what jeff's library does with the whitespace http://catalog.tadl.org/eg/opac/home |
| 11:17 |
|
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| 11:18 |
krvmga |
kmlussier: yes, a good example of what i meant. |
| 11:24 |
jeff |
two other approaches that we have been experimenting with can be seen here: https://dev.tadl.org/responsive-web/ and here: http://dev.kalkaskalibrary.org/books/ |
| 11:27 |
jeff |
both of those are very much experiments and/or work-in-progress, hopefully as hinted at by the "dev" hostnames, robots.txt, and content like: "* just testing some things" :-) |
| 11:28 |
krvmga |
jeff: i particularly like the responsive-web one. |
| 11:29 |
krvmga |
jeff: do you have many academic libraries in your consortium? |
| 11:31 |
jeff |
krvmga: no academic libraries in our catalog. we're also not a "consortium", per se. we are a district library, plus we're contracting with a neighboring county library to provide ILS/website/etc services (going live in Aug). |
| 11:35 |
krvmga |
jeff: what are you using to build the responsive-web one? or are you doing it from scratch? |
| 11:38 |
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| 11:42 |
krvmga |
i'll be back later. |
| 11:45 |
jeff |
@later tell krvmga the responsive-web one is pretty much from scratch (with some jQuery). if we decide to continue down that path we might incorporate angularjs. I'm also interested in eliminating/reducing the role/need of the Rails app that currently works as a JSON<->TPAC screen scraping gateway. |
| 11:45 |
pinesol_green |
jeff: The operation succeeded. |
| 11:46 |
jeff |
Since they're experiments, there are a lot of things in there where we've done it, but learned enough to know that we would want to do it differently next time. :-) |
| 12:18 |
Dyrcona |
@marc 505 |
| 12:18 |
pinesol_green |
Dyrcona: The titles of separate works or parts of an item or the table of contents. The field may also contain statements of responsibility and volume numbers or other sequential designations. (Repeatable) [a,g,r,t,u,6,8] |
| 12:25 |
Dyrcona |
Perl code like this always looks "wrong" to me, even when it is in my own code: substr($_, 26, 1) = 'i'; |
| 12:44 |
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| 12:48 |
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| 13:06 |
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| 13:21 |
krvmga |
jeff: back to my question from before: for the responsive-web example, what are you using to build it? or are you doing it from scratch? |
| 13:26 |
jeff |
krvmga: hopefully you got my @later from pinesol_green just now. let me know if you need me to repeat. |
| 13:26 |
jeff |
krvmga: something i didn't include in the @later, so you probably didn't see: |
| 13:26 |
jeff |
Since they're experiments, there are a lot of things in there where we've done it, but learned enough to know that we would want to do it differently next time. :-) |
| 13:27 |
krvmga |
jeff: thanks, i missed that. |
| 13:27 |
krvmga |
jeff++ |
| 13:27 |
jeff |
krvmga: you saw the bit pinesol_green relayed with mention of jQuery/angular/Rails/etc? |
| 13:29 |
krvmga |
jeff: yes, i saw it now. |
| 13:31 |
jeff |
great! |
| 13:52 |
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| 14:02 |
gmcharlt |
eeevil: bug 1348731 |
| 14:02 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1348731 in Evergreen "add optional nonce to permit distinguishing multiple simultaneous auth using the same username" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1348731 |
| 14:03 |
eeevil |
gmcharlt++ |
| 14:08 |
jeffdavis |
re: the mention of carousels earlier, I found this to be useful reading: http://cynng.wordpress.com/2014/01/30/death-to-the-website-carousel/ (the post title comes on stronger than the post itself does) |
| 14:19 |
jeff |
jeffdavis: at this point, i'm not sure which to call a "slider" and which to call a "carousel" |
| 14:21 |
jeff |
jeffdavis: we've been using "carousel" to refer to "multiple book jackets with titles beneath that when clicked lead to the catalog record page for that title, optionally scrolling/touch-drag-whatever to see more items" |
| 14:33 |
kmlussier |
Ha ha. I was on vacation when bug 1339190 was submitted and didn't see that bug title. |
| 14:33 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1339190 in SIPServer "SIPServer is heavy, not my brother" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1339190 |
| 14:33 |
kmlussier |
eeevil++ |
| 14:34 |
krvmga |
jeffdavis: just read death-to-the-website-carousel , interesting read |
| 14:34 |
krvmga |
jeffdavis++ |
| 14:35 |
eeevil |
kmlussier: :) ... I have a followup to that that's in testing ... I'll pull the pullrequest for the ... nonce (that'll be funnier later) |
| 14:36 |
jeffdavis |
krvmga: glad you found it worthwhile! |
| 14:37 |
jeffdavis |
it seems that TADL's carousels/sliders/whatever avoid a lot of the accessibility issues that article raises, which is cool |
| 14:37 |
jeff |
jeffdavis: my intent wasn't to defend them, just to comment on how i've used slider/carousel to mean different things over time. :-) |
| 14:38 |
jeff |
and our main site still maintains a "big image that changes automatically" element, which is what's being critiqued as bad :-) |
| 14:40 |
jeffdavis |
jeff: until recently my preferred term was "you know, that thingie that lets you scroll through cover images for a dozen or so different books" ;) |
| 14:41 |
jeffdavis |
<- feral web developer |
| 14:41 |
* jeff |
laughs |
| 15:24 |
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| 15:39 |
kmlussier |
@love spell check |
| 15:39 |
pinesol_green |
kmlussier: The operation succeeded. kmlussier loves spell check. |
| 15:40 |
bshum |
Ugh |
| 15:40 |
bshum |
mceraso++ # found an error in the postgres install for the alpha build |
| 15:40 |
bshum |
Looks like a duplicate key issue of some kind.... |
| 15:41 |
bshum |
Breaks fresh installs :( |
| 15:41 |
kmlussier |
mceraso++ |
| 15:42 |
bshum |
That's weird |
| 15:42 |
bshum |
INSERT INTO config.upgrade_log (version, applied_to) VALUES ('2.7.0-alpha1', :eg_version); |
| 15:42 |
bshum |
Ended up in the 002.schema.config.sql file twice |
| 15:42 |
bshum |
Sigh |
| 15:44 |
bshum |
Not sure what happened there |
| 15:49 |
Dyrcona |
bshum was it once around line 94 and again around line 920? |
| 15:49 |
bshum |
It was around 95/96 |
| 15:49 |
bshum |
NOt sure about again |
| 15:49 |
bshum |
I can check further |
| 15:50 |
bshum |
Nothing I can see further down in the script |
| 15:50 |
Dyrcona |
The second one is in a function definition and it uses variables. |
| 15:50 |
Dyrcona |
I was just thinking if the make release script messes with that file it might have duped it some how. |
| 15:51 |
Dyrcona |
I also wanted to check it didn't get unnecessarily doubled in master. |
| 15:51 |
bshum |
There isn't an entry in master for the version like that. |
| 15:52 |
bshum |
Or at least not one I could see |
| 15:53 |
bshum |
That is so weird... |
| 15:53 |
bshum |
The branch I used to make the tarball has the upgrade script in it |
| 15:53 |
bshum |
But not the actual tarball itself |
| 15:54 |
bshum |
So that too is apparently missing from the alpha tarball |
| 15:56 |
Dyrcona |
right. I thought maybe the make release script would scan the file for the existing insert and modify it. |
| 15:56 |
Dyrcona |
I don't know if I've ever used make release, and if I did it was quite some time ago. |
| 16:03 |
bshum |
Yeah |
| 16:03 |
bshum |
I guess it's a quirk from running make_release more than once |
| 16:03 |
bshum |
It keeps adding another line |
| 16:03 |
bshum |
That must be what happened to me |
| 16:03 |
bshum |
I'm resetting my branch and making a new build |
| 16:03 |
bshum |
2.7.0-alpha2! I suppose. |
| 16:04 |
dbwells |
I'd probably stick with alpha1, but it doesn't matter too much. |
| 16:05 |
bshum |
Yeah I could just reload it again |
| 16:05 |
dbwells |
Assuming we're just redoing the build, and not adding more stuff in. |
| 16:05 |
bshum |
Nothing new has been committed yet, so it's basically the same thing |
| 16:05 |
bshum |
Just with the proper scripts this time |
| 16:07 |
bshum |
Can just push a new alpha1 up to the web server once this dance is done. |
| 16:13 |
mmorgan |
just reading about clustering in postgres |
| 16:13 |
mmorgan |
anyone using this on (just as a random example) permission.grp_tree to sort permission groups in the patron registration/edit form? |
| 16:14 |
mmorgan |
did it on our training server and it worked like a charm |
| 16:17 |
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| 16:18 |
phasefx |
mmorgan: hrmm..how are things sorting without that? I would expect ascibetically at each level in the hiearchy |
| 16:18 |
phasefx |
hierarchy, even |
| 16:19 |
mmorgan |
seem to sort in the same order they are in the database, which is affected when rows are edited |
| 16:20 |
mmorgan |
for reference, lp 816615 |
| 16:20 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 816615 in Evergreen "patron profile permission group sort order" (affected: 4, heat: 30) [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816615 |
| 16:21 |
gmcharlt |
mmorgan: the cluster command is really meant just to improve query perfomance if you know that the primary mode of access for rows in table is in order by a particular index |
| 16:22 |
gmcharlt |
but it really shouldn't be counted on to preserve sort order for use by an application that's not using an 'order by' clause in an underlying SQL query |
| 16:22 |
gmcharlt |
IOW, a better and permanent fix for 816615 would be to update the code to request the permission groups sorted by name |
| 16:23 |
* phasefx |
is with gmcharlt. Treat order as undefined if there is no order by |
| 16:23 |
gmcharlt |
(or to do a sort after the staff interface retrieves the list) |
| 16:24 |
mmorgan |
gmcharlt: I get that certainly, and would be thrilled with a permanent fix, but in a pinch, is there a downside to clustering that table? It certainly gives us a better list than we have now. |
| 16:24 |
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| 16:25 |
mmorgan |
we don't edit that table often, but whenever we do, the order changes, and to our users it sure appears random now. |
| 16:25 |
gmcharlt |
mmorgan: no particular downside, though since cluster takes an exclusive access lock on the table, the cluster command should be run (or re-run, if you add or edt pgt) after hours |
| 16:29 |
mmorgan |
I would plan on running it only after an edit, which is rare, and thanks for the caution about the exclusive access lock. |
| 16:30 |
eeevil |
mmorgan: the reason they're not sorted right now, btw, is that because it's a tree, name-sort adjacency doesn't imply proper ordering ... the display code should be sorting them at each "level" of the tree |
| 16:32 |
eeevil |
if the code isn't doing that, but a sorted list has the side-effect of proper sorting in tree mode, that's fine ... but there's not guarantee that every JS implementation, say, will display that same side effect |
| 16:32 |
eeevil |
so, once we move to the browser client, some browsers may not have that side effect you want ... just as a warning |
| 16:33 |
eeevil |
(or they all may, or the code may be preserving enough order that it's more than a side effect, but I haven't looked to be certain) |
| 16:34 |
eeevil |
point is... with SQL, an order-by is the only sure way to get a specific ordering (or: what gmcharlt said :) ) |
| 16:36 |
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| 16:37 |
mmorgan |
... and I get that, certainly, but it doesn't do it now, and if there's something we can do locally to make it better for our users without causing any additional side effects, it works for me in the short term. |
| 16:40 |
phasefx |
mmorgan: I think we're just slightly horrified but there's really no short-term harm :) I used to be a huge fan of quick & dirty |
| 16:40 |
mmorgan |
I'm not going to do it on Friday afternoon before going home for the weekend, though ;-) |
| 16:40 |
phasefx |
mmorgan++ |
| 16:42 |
eeevil |
mmorgan: to be certain, I'm not saying don't cluster ... just want to make sure the caveats are clear. |
| 16:43 |
eeevil |
(and I'm being verbose for the logs as much as anything) |
| 16:43 |
mmorgan |
phasefx: why is it slightly horrifying? Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems minor. Not mucking around in the software, or much in the database either, just clustering one small table when we make an edit. |
| 16:44 |
mmorgan |
yes, I certainly agree that all the caveats should be stated clearly. |
| 16:44 |
eeevil |
mmorgan: I think phasefx means "horrified that the front end doesn't sort the names" :) |
| 16:44 |
phasefx |
mmorgan: because it's a kludge, relying on undefined implementation specific behavior |
| 16:44 |
paxed |
Dyrcona: i doubt it was me, i don't think we had any finnish z39.50 servers in use at that time. |
| 16:44 |
mmorgan |
eeevil: Ah. Yes, we had that in week one after going live :) |
| 16:45 |
phasefx |
unless clustering (which I'm not really familiar with) is supposed to define order.. and then it's still not ideal because the UI should be doing it out of the box |
| 16:45 |
Dyrcona |
paxed: I hallucinated the ticket that I was looking for. It doesn't exist. |
| 16:45 |
paxed |
Dyrcona: ah, ok. |
| 16:45 |
* bshum |
waves at paxed |
| 16:45 |
kmlussier |
Good morning paxed! |
| 16:46 |
kmlussier |
Oh, wait, it's not morning there yet, is it? |
| 16:46 |
eeevil |
phasefx: it physically orders the contents of the table based on an index, so that similar rows land on the same or nearby pages, and there's less seeking in the heap file |
| 16:46 |
paxed |
kmlussier: late evening |
| 16:46 |
* paxed |
is at a 'con right now. |
| 16:47 |
phasefx |
eeevil: but the SQL standard itself doesn't specify what order rows are returned in without an order by, right? |
| 16:47 |
eeevil |
phasefx: correct |
| 16:47 |
phasefx |
it's just an implementation quirk of postgres that could change |
| 16:47 |
eeevil |
cluster is about access speed |
| 16:47 |
eeevil |
and it's pg specific |
| 16:47 |
mmorgan |
phasefx: but it does seem to be a fairly benign kludge, compared to some others... |
| 16:47 |
phasefx |
mmorgan: I agree :) |
| 16:47 |
eeevil |
mmorgan: indeed |
| 16:48 |
phasefx |
thus the "slgihtly" :) |
| 16:48 |
phasefx |
hrmm. I'll blame encrypted synergy for that typo :D |
| 16:48 |
eeevil |
phasefx: but, yeah, in SQL, a relation is a "bag" (or a "set" if it has a pkey), not a list, which implies order |
| 16:49 |
phasefx |
eeevil: makes sense to me |
| 16:49 |
gmcharlt |
it would be interesting... for certain definitions of that word... to add a switch to Pg to randomize the order of rows returned by a query that doesn't specify an explicit order |
| 16:49 |
Dyrcona |
sybase has the notion of clustered indexes, which sounds similar in purpose, but possibly different in implementation. |
| 16:50 |
eeevil |
gmcharlt: I think I saw that proposed, actually, to remove side-channel info leakage |
| 16:50 |
phasefx |
gmcharlt: we can go ahead and use cluster on the QA server to put everything in backwards orders |
| 16:50 |
mmorgan |
In our experience on Evergreen thus far, the permission group list in the edit screen has been badly sorted, and pretty consistently so from day one. If clustering can sort it better even for a short time, it's a win for us :) |
| 16:50 |
eeevil |
back when all the selinux extensions were first being designed |
| 16:50 |
phasefx |
gmcharlt: well, s/QA/demo/ or manual test server |
| 16:51 |
phasefx |
not quite the same, but partway there for finding bad assumptions in the code |
| 16:52 |
eeevil |
Dyrcona: that's, IIRC, index organized tables, where the heap tuples live on the leaf pages of the index ... yes, similare purpose, but not possible in pg in the broadest sense |
| 16:52 |
eeevil |
Dyrcona: however, for stable dataset and a covering index, you can get an index-only scan |
| 16:52 |
Dyrcona |
yep. |
| 17:06 |
pinesol_green |
Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html> |
| 17:11 |
mmorgan |
good weekend all! don't have nightmares about clustering... |
| 17:11 |
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| 17:11 |
kmlussier |
mmorgan: Have a nice weekend! |
| 17:11 |
kmlussier |
Ah, too late! |
| 17:17 |
* jeff |
stops pulling at puppet's strings and heads home |
| 17:32 |
* kmlussier |
really shouldn't write e-mails on a Friday afternoon. |
| 17:35 |
bshum |
kmlussier++ |
| 17:35 |
bshum |
cookies++ |
| 17:35 |
kmlussier |
I'm wondering if I can get custom-made cookie boxes with the MassLNC logo. |
| 17:35 |
* kmlussier |
checks |
| 17:50 |
gmcharlt |
kmlussier++ |
| 17:50 |
* gmcharlt |
makes note to self: kmlussier & jcamins cookie bake-off whenever there's a joint EG/Koha conference |
| 17:51 |
kmlussier |
I'm looking forward to it! |
| 17:51 |
kmlussier |
I still haven't figure out the whole packing cookies thing, but I figured I could consult with jcamins when the time comes. |
| 19:05 |
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