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IRC log for #evergreen, 2014-06-10

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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05:04 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
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08:26 * jeff yawns
08:26 berick @coffee jeff
08:26 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of Kenya Thiriku Top Auction Lot, and sends it sliding down the bar to jeff
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08:47 jeff berick++
08:48 jeff even if weekend headaches have me trying coffee-less weekdays (boo)
08:50 berick wean your self with some...
08:50 berick @tea jeff
08:50 * pinesol_green brews and pours a pot of Nonpareil Taiwan Li Shan Oolong Tea, and sends it sliding down the bar to jeff (http://ratetea.com/tea/teavivre/nonpa​reil-taiwan-li-shan-oolong-tea/6832/)
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08:56 krvmga has anyone run across the problem where the whole OPAC window (including the user account information) appears in the staff client search window?
09:02 jeff yes. one common cause used to be when you had an idle TPAC tab that would log out the staff client's browser interfaces.
09:03 jeff that bug was fixed, but it's possible the change isn't in your version, or the change was not ported to your templates.
09:03 jeff (or of course, you could be running into another issue)
09:05 jeff fixed in 2.3.12, 2.4.4, and 2.5.0 according to bug 1036318
09:05 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1036318 in Evergreen 2.4 "OPAC timeout within the client" (affected: 13, heat: 68) [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1036318
09:07 jeff one line fix is in this commit: http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Ev​ergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb9de90​7e5c114b8c72acb3aa4051d592bfe4361
09:07 pinesol_green [evergreen|Jeff Godin] Don't auto-logout TPAC in staff client - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=fb9de90>
09:08 jeff and comment 17 on that bug has my (NOT one line) description of the issue, if you think you're running into this and would like to confirm: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ever​green/+bug/1036318/comments/17
09:08 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1036318 in Evergreen 2.4 "OPAC timeout within the client" (affected: 13, heat: 68) [Medium,Fix released]
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09:10 jeff as well as description of a second scenario not addressed by that bug's fix.
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09:44 krvmga jeff++
09:44 krvmga jeff: thanks very much :)
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10:03 jeff krvmga: was that the issue, or are you not sure yet?
10:04 krvmga jeff: i'm not 100% sure yet.the report i have is that the staff are not getting a log in screen but it shows staff as already logged into the OPAC.
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10:05 krvmga for instance, the OPAC login screen will display in the panel above the check out panel...
10:06 krvmga would you like to see a screenshot
10:06 krvmga ?
10:07 bshum That sounds like weird customization issues. Like your special alt patron summary?
10:07 * bshum doesn't think checkout xul would ever have TPAC bits above it....
10:08 krvmga http://www.cwmars.org/content/opac-staff-client
10:10 * bshum distances himself from that GUI
10:10 * krvmga watches bshum moving into the distance.
10:11 krvmga well, i have to say it's one of the oddest things i've seen.
10:11 bshum krvgma: Not that I know enough about that GUI (other than I have numerous issues) but I suspect jeff's hypothesis is correct about session timeouts of some sort.
10:12 * bshum refers krvmga to phasefx now.
10:13 krvmga or phasefx2 as the case may be
10:13 phasefx2 their patron summary is TT2 that lives in the TPAC area; if the session dies, you get the OPAC login page in the summary
10:14 phasefx2 or if the session is evicted in memcached
10:14 krvmga phasefx2: does that account for the strangeness in the screen shot?
10:14 jeff (which is one of the scenarios mentioned but not addressed by the earlier referenced bug)
10:15 phasefx2 krvmga: that's what I would expect to see if the session went away; but as to why the session went away (or was lost or expired), I don't know
10:15 krvmga phasefx2: and is this covered in the bug fix for 2.5 (which we're upgrading to on Sunday)
10:15 jeff krvmga: have you checked your template to see if it has the change introduced by commit fb9de90?
10:15 pinesol_green [evergreen|Jeff Godin] Don't auto-logout TPAC in staff client - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=fb9de90>
10:16 krvmga jeff: i have not and now, with the 2.5 upgrade in just a few days, i feel hesitant to tinker if it's going to be fixed anyway.
10:16 * phasefx2 doesn't have his head in this space at that the moment, so doesn't know any real answers :)
10:25 jeff krvmga: looking now could help you determine if you're running into the known (and fixed) issue, or if you are running into something else. If you're already on 2.5, you should have the fix for that bug.
10:25 jeff krvmga: (but of course things can be missed when porting changes to custom templates)
10:26 krvmga jeff: i'm gonna take a lot right now.
10:26 * krvmga speeds off in the vague direction of the servers.
10:27 dbs @who is kind of not looking forward to upgrading from 2.4 to 2.6?
10:27 pinesol_green ningalls is kind of not looking forward to upgrading from 2.4 to 2.6.
10:27 * ningalls doesn't have to upgrade evergreen :)
10:28 bshum ningalls++
10:28 bshum :D
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10:39 Dyrcona debuggers++
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11:37 Dyrcona jeff: On the duplicate book bag entries that we were talking about yesterday.
11:37 Dyrcona jeff: The results are really strange.
11:38 Dyrcona There's like one or two entries per book bag, often with ridiculous numbers like 20, or 200+, and the rest of the entries, even from within seconds of the other entries only appear once.
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12:39 jeff for the duplicate entries, are they all within seconds/minutes of each other?
12:49 Dyrcona jeff, in the case of the duped records on my list, both sets of 20 were created within 5 seconds.
12:49 Dyrcona each set was created about 20 seconds apart.
12:52 jeff Dyrcona: i've seen "user has two holds on a bunch of items" when a user placed a hold on a list, then timed out and re-tried. this doesn't sound that similar, though.
12:52 Dyrcona Nope. I don't think I would have tried adding something 20 times before giving up.
12:53 jeff right. :-)
13:18 bshum Reminder to fill out -- http://doodle.com/bqwp3e334zpa33f8
13:18 bshum Looks like June 12 is winning though
13:30 Dyrcona That's a bit short of notice if it is tomorrow, or even Friday.
13:30 Dyrcona If it is next week, I probably won't be able to make it though.
13:31 bshum Yeah, I'm almost sure we need to have it on Thursday now.  Though kmlussier didn't call it before she left for today.
13:33 dbwells bshum: I'd say you can just make the call.  Thursday or bust.
13:34 bshum Alright, executive decision, Thursday 2 pm EST.
13:34 dbwells bshum++
13:34 bshum Be there, or we volunteer you for EVERYTHING.
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14:12 bshum eeevil: Around?  I have an MVF (maybe) question
14:12 bshum So in the past, it looks like our catalogers added an "oclc" definition in config.record_attr_definition
14:12 bshum And applied it to a single tag 001
14:12 bshum With the advent of MVF/CRA, I wonder if this custom definition is basically broken
14:13 bshum I can't seem to find any bibs in our DB with the definition anymore, so I'm guessing it's related to the changes to record_attr, but am just looking for more leads / suggestions
14:14 bshum The catalogers are understandably unhappy about having their key matchpoint for loading new records missing :\
14:14 eeevil bshum: you're sure it wasn't an identifier-class metabib field def?
14:14 bshum eeevil: You mean like a metabib.field_class entry?  (it was not)
14:15 bshum Err, config.metabib_field_class rather
14:15 bshum Sorry, jumbling my tables :\
14:17 pastebot "bshum" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "custom oclc record def pre-MVF/CRA" (5 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/61
14:20 bshum eeevil: Assuming that's no longer a valid definition (or maybe this is some weird bug?), do you have any suggestions for us to get a new record attr into play again based on the tag?
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14:39 Bmagic which directory on the app server is used to compare to the staff client version to ensure compatibility? /openils/var/web/xul/server ? What file does the staff client look at in order to determine the version that the app server is running?
14:41 bshum Bmagic: I've found the staff client will happily connect to a server as long as there's a version folder that'll match it in /openils/var/web/xul/
14:42 bshum So I tend to move our older installed versions out of the way
14:42 bshum Like I'll put retired_* in front of it when renaming the folder out of the way
14:42 Bmagic bshum: I see, even though the link is pointed to the newer version, the older staff client will connect
14:42 bshum Bmagic: That's what I saw the last time I upgraded our systems anyways.
14:43 Bmagic bshum: thanks I will try that
14:43 Bmagic bshum: I was like, wait a minute, I know my server is 2.6 and this staff client is 2.4.1 .... ummm.. it's connecting?
14:43 pastebot "Dyrcona" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "Bmagick: See here" (5 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/62
14:43 Dyrcona The client will look for a folder with its stamp version.
14:43 jeff i suspect that a transfer of a hold from one title to another will result in that hold being retargeted, regardless if that hold was ready for pickup or not.
14:44 jeff suspect because that's what these log entries seem to indicate.
14:51 eeevil bshum: so, where are they trying to use the oclc number?
14:52 bshum eeevil: I believe their intent was to use it as a matchpoint for matching up bibs during loading
14:52 jeff code confirms. we should probably have more of a safety on that.
14:52 bshum Or at least, that's how it used to work previously
14:53 jeff I wonder if transferring a copy will break the already-captured hold.
14:53 eeevil should still be possible. I mean, the data's still being extracted
14:56 bshum Hmm
14:59 bshum eeevil: If it was still being extracted per the definition, wouldn't I find some trace of it with something like SELECT * FROM metabib.record_attr_flat WHERE attr = 'oclc'; ?
15:00 jboyer-isl jeff: Maybe I should have been more descriptive in bug 1312824, it breaks things whether the hold is on the shelf or in transit. Good times.
15:00 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1312824 in Evergreen "open-ils.circ.hold.change_title(.specific_holds) APIs cause havoc when used" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1312824
15:00 bshum Or am I not understanding the link between record_attr_definition?
15:00 jboyer-isl More descriptive in the title, that is.
15:01 eeevil bshum: nope ... it wouldn't be there. it's in the uncontrolled values table ... there's another view that includes that, akin to record_attr_flat. perhaps vandelay needs to look there instead
15:01 bshum eeevil: Hmm, the uncontrolled table has nothing in there either
15:02 bshum metabib.uncontrolled_record_attr_value
15:02 bshum Assuming that's the one you mean
15:03 jeff jboyer-isl: i was about to ask you something starting with "in your testing", but then i saw your comment. :-)
15:03 bshum eeevil: Hmm, might it be that because "multi" is still set to TRUE for that definition, that's a potential issue?
15:05 jeff jboyer-isl: i like your approach of "don't let these API calls transfer captured holds at all"
15:05 jeff jboyer-isl: it gets around the issue of inconsistent ahcm when opting not to retarget (but still transferring) the captured holds
15:06 eeevil bshum: shouldn't be ... it's that it's uncontrolled, I believe
15:06 jeff jboyer-isl: i do wonder if the captured holds break when their copies have been moved to another bib (in the case where copies were transferred to a new bib and then the holds transferred there)
15:06 jboyer-isl jeff: Definitely. There's no coordination between libraries Re: transferring title holds, so we would have libs saying "why are the items on our holds shelf trying to fill the wrong holds?"
15:06 eeevil but, mutli should probably be false for that anyway
15:06 eeevil (there'll only be on 001)
15:07 jeff I don't recall what is done with holds in the case of a bib merge.
15:07 * jeff looks
15:07 bshum eeevil: I think it's only set TRUE because it's default TRUE in the table definition.
15:07 bshum eeevil: As for the metabib.uncontrolled_record_attr_value, I only have 2710 rows in there, and none of them are attr 'oclc'
15:07 eeevil bshum: of course, if you have EG controlling your 001/003 ...
15:07 jboyer-isl jeff: Yeah, I haven't looked into that case either. I suspect the targeted copy does get dropped.
15:07 bshum eeevil: Yeah, I know :)
15:08 bshum Wasn't up to me, that's how the catalogers wanted it
15:09 eeevil bshum: honestly, without looking directly, I can't help much more ATM ... sorry.  you might want to switch from tag to xpath
15:10 jeff Hrm. Looks like in the case of merges title holds are untouched.
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15:13 bshum eeevil: Alrighty, well I can give that a try, though I don't see any xpath examples in the stock data, so I'll have to do some digging to figure out how that gets defined.
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15:14 bshum That said, I'm nervous now about folks who are upgrading to 2.6 and who might have their own record_attr definitions that weren't accounted for.
15:15 bshum (not sure how common or not that might be, but it makes me queasy when something like this slips)
15:17 * jeff eyes OpenILS::Application::Cat::Merge::merge_records as potentially dead code
15:18 jeff jboyer-isl: what methods have you used to clean up after this -- as you described it -- "havoc"? :-)
15:20 jboyer-isl Since we don't know about it until after it's happened, usually the staff have already either checked the item out to someone or placed a new hold. We haven't yet gone to great lengths to correct anything. I think it was only reported a couple of times between our figuring out what was going on and my applying that basic patch.
15:24 jeff neither old-school merge nor in-db merge seem to have paid any attention to title holds (though i didn't go digging too far back to confirm on the old-school method)
15:30 jeff jboyer-isl: and the staff client appears to be the only thing calling open-ils.circ.hold.change_title[.specific_holds], and i don't see any references to OpenILS::Application::Circ::Holds::ch​ange_hold_title[_for_specific_holds] so i think that answering the question of "what's the impact when these holds are left on the old bib but their copies are moved" and "add a join to skip copies with in-transit holds also" followed by some testing should help bring
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15:39 jeff I can see two scenarios where Transfer Title Holds can be used. In one, there are no planned changes to copies or bibs, we're just moving the hold or holds. In the other, we've transferred (possibly as part of a merge) or are about to transfer copies to another bib.
15:40 bshum Doh, array_to_string(array_agg()) crept in again over string_agg()
15:40 bshum Just saw it part of function metabib.reingest_record_attributes()
15:42 jeff In the second, I don't know that we care if the already-captured holds stay behind on the old title record unless a) it will break fulfillment / transit completion -> available -> fulfillment or b) the hold gets out of its captured status for some reason, in which case it'll likely end up being an unfillable hold
15:49 jboyer-isl jeff: In the second scenario, would it not be sufficient to change the target id of a hold to the new record as the merge is performed, and not change any other fields? (Volume holds may present an issue, and copy holds are "immune" to this issue)
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15:54 jeff jboyer-isl: possibly. there might still be potential for unexpected behavior if its target is changed but it isn't reset. perhaps we need a way to "soft-reset" a hold -- leave current_copy alone, but zero out the ahcm.
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15:55 jeff jboyer-isl: there's also the potential odd scenario where you have a hold targeting Book about Trees but has a copy of "Book about Cars" captured. I don't know if it's worth doing a "if this hold's current_copy is present on the transfer destination, transfer the hold -- if not, don't"
15:56 jeff tricky to anticipate expected behavior and to avoid violating least surprise? yup. :-)
15:58 jboyer-isl jeff: That may be a concern for the "transfer specific holds" version of the API, but if you're transferring every hold from a car book to a tree book, you've just made a lot of people grumpy. I can't see a valid use for the "all holds" transfer outside of merge prep, in which case that should just be a part of the merge process, not a separate step.
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15:59 jboyer-isl This is the kind of thing that would be much easier to hash out at a hackaway. :/
15:59 kmlussier bshum++ #Follow-through on dev meeting
16:00 jeff jboyer-isl: not enough end users at a hackaway for some things. :-)
16:00 kmlussier bshum, eeevil: I think we may have at least one site using the 001 field as a matchpoint as bshum described.
16:00 jboyer-isl jeff: That's true.
16:00 kmlussier And I'm fairly sure one of the other development partners for our Vandelay project was doing the same. So if that doesn't work anymore, I think it's going to disrupt things for a lot of sites when they upgrade.
16:01 jeff arguably title hold transfer could/should be part of record merge, but i can also see benefit for it being available as an explicit option outside of record merging.
16:01 * RoganH suddenly remembers he had meant to send out an email last week about the hack-a-way
16:02 bshum RoganH: I wasn't going to pry but I'm super curious :D
16:02 * kmlussier is curious too.
16:03 RoganH bshum: I'm going to send out a poll to get feedback from potential attendees just as I always have.  Right now the options are (maybe) British Columbia, (maybe) Atlanta area and Rock Hill, SC.
16:03 RoganH With some still up in the air I'll have to count a vote for ATL as a vote for SC if ATL falls through for some reason.
16:04 RoganH On the plus side if we end up having to do SC I'll supply really good BBQ.
16:06 jeff jboyer-isl: right now i think it's between "don't even try to transfer" and "transfer but do not reset captured holds" -- i think whichever doesn't break [transit->]holdshelf->checkout will work. If both don't break, then I'm leaning toward "transfer but do not reset", possibly with "add a hold note stating that the transfer took place" (maybe only for captured holds?)
16:06 jeff not sure on the note, though. :P
16:06 bshum RoganH: "Really good BBQ" seems like a slam dunk to me.  But very cool!
16:06 jeff anyway, jboyer-isl++
16:06 bshum RoganH++ # looking forward to seeing more details
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16:12 eeevil kmlussier / bshum: vandelay can match against random tag data without record attrs being involved (see: isbn), so ISTM there should be a way without involving the existing attr defs
16:13 RoganH bshum: short email sent to dev list.  We'll see where the discussion goes.  :)
16:13 kmlussier eeevil: The record attrs was what was recommended to me by an ESI developer back when we were testing the Vandelay development because the standard Vandelay matchpoints required that a subfield be used.
16:15 eeevil kmlussier: gotcha. this is a solvable issue, probably very simply
16:17 eeevil bshum: looking at the code, record_attr_flat /does/ include uncontrolled values
16:17 eeevil so, I was wrong up there -^
16:18 eeevil and it's simply a matter of getting the 001 into the uncontrolled values table.  my main suggestion remains using xpath instead of tag at this point
16:18 bshum eeevil: I'm still adding raise notice to metabib.reingest_record_attribute, but I can't find where it decides to insert a tag defined SVF into the table yet.
16:18 bshum Just learning how it works
16:19 bshum I can definitely see it parse and find the tag defined SVF, but it never seems to add it to the uncontrolled table anywhere
16:21 eeevil bshum: next to this comment: tag+sf attrs only support SVF
16:21 eeevil oh, nm
16:23 eeevil bshum: see: Create unknown uncontrolled values and find the IDs of the values
16:23 eeevil bshum: you need to set filter=true on the def
16:24 bshum eeevil: That'll do it.
16:25 eeevil bshum: as a side effect, that'll give you a "oclc(0123912340924)" filter syntax for searching. so ... you're welcome? ;)
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16:44 bshum eeevil: Yep, so running reingest I can see now that it's going to the uncontrolled table, and in turn getting picked up now with record_attr, etc.
16:44 bshum Presumably, something like SELECT metabib.reingest_record_attributes(id, '{oclc}'::text[], marc, FALSE) FROM biblio.record_entry WHERE deleted = FALSE; ought to go forth and reingest to get that one record attr going right?
16:52 eeevil bshum: yes, but you might want to generate a script using the IDs directly, instead of one huge transaction
16:53 bshum eeevil: Yep, that's what I'm doing now actually :)
16:53 bshum eeevil++ # thanks for the eyes on this
16:53 eeevil np
16:54 eeevil I'm glad when it's all configuration. it's not free, but it's not code, either ;)
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17:47 jeff phew. resolved mess from Transfer Title Holds being used on Ready for Pickup holds
17:48 jeff everything back where it belongs. some patrons get another set of notification(s) and more time to pick up their holds. nobody goes home unhappy.
17:51 jeff and bug 1312824 exists to perhaps disable that foot cannon. :-)
17:51 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1312824 in Evergreen "open-ils.circ.hold.change_title(.specific_holds) APIs cause havoc when used" (affected: 2, heat: 10) [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1312824 - Assigned to Jeff Godin (jgodin)
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20:47 hbrennan_away Helllooo ....elooo....eloo..ello...
20:47 hbrennan just doing a sound check
20:47 dcook hehe
20:48 hbrennan If anyone is here though, is there an easy or quick way to verify that we are not missing overdue reports?
20:48 hbrennan Haven't had any produced for two days
20:48 hbrennan and that's odd
20:49 hbrennan I don't mean overdue reports, so much as I mean NOTICES.. the pdfs that we print and mail
20:50 * dcook goes back to lurking as he doesn't actually use egils
20:50 hbrennan hehe, thanks for the explanation, since your snicker gave you away as being here
20:51 hbrennan Just a fan?
21:02 dcook Koha dev. Figure it doesn't hurt to hear what you folk are up to :)
21:03 dcook I'm originally from Canada as well, so curious about developments that can affect folk back home
21:24 hbrennan Ah, of course. :)
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23:43 hbrennan To answer my own question above, the notices are sitting in openils/var/data/overdue .... and the missing days are there, just with no overdue data.... Success!

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