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IRC log for #evergreen, 2014-05-15

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Time Nick Message
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04:50 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
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09:35 mrpeters tinkering with register.js to stick some default address values in place.  it's working, for street1, but following that register_table.tt2 doesn't load.  Is this improper syntax?
09:35 pastebot "mrpeters" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "register.js default street1" (3 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/30
09:38 mrpeters (actually doesn't matter which field i set first, post code does the same thing -- then street1 and beyond don't load)
09:43 jeff not enough context to tell. pushing a working branch is best. full register.js would be okay, too.
09:43 jeff and failing that, at least the entire function that you changed. :-)
09:44 pastebot "mrpeters" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "register.js tweaks for prepopulated address text boxes" (43 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/31
09:44 mrpeters jeff: whoops, pasted that section before i saw your message
09:44 mrpeters its a stock register.js except for what i pasted above, but i can paste the full if need be
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09:46 jeff no problem. that seems like enough. any new errors/warnings in the js console in the client when you run with this in place?
09:48 mrpeters Timestamp: 5/15/2014 9:47:01 AM
09:48 mrpeters Error: TypeError: collectExemptCBox is undefined
09:48 mrpeters Source File: oils://remote/js/ui/default/actor/user/register.js
09:48 mrpeters Line: 1233
09:48 mrpeters thats not related though
09:49 mrpeters some errors about claims returned count
09:49 mrpeters Timestamp: 5/15/2014 9:47:50 AM
09:49 mrpeters Error: ReferenceError: register is not defined
09:49 mrpeters Source File: javascript:%20register.js
09:49 mrpeters Line: 1
09:50 mrpeters doesn't seem like anything related in there
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09:52 tsbere mrpeters: You could always try putting alert statements in there to see what is or is not triggering
09:52 tsbere mrpeters: Specifically, if you alert on the current fmfield you can see as it goes through to possibly determine which change is causing issues
09:53 mrpeters yeah, ill mess with it some more for sure, i just wanted to see if i was doing anything obviously wrong
09:53 mrpeters it works perfectly, for the first default value you try to set :)
09:54 tsbere mrpeters: Basically, I recommend putting alert(row.getAttribute('fmfield')); just after the var widget = line
09:55 mrpeters hmm that throws an alert on address type, which previously was populating fine (now doesnt)
09:56 mrpeters after you click ok, it does, then the same for post code, then it just stops
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10:16 tsbere mrpeters: Having looked at the code, thought about what it is doing, considered your statement as to where it is stopping, I still have no clue....though I have another debug idea. >_>
10:19 tsbere mrpeters: Wrap the entire block of code, either the if block or the contents of it, in a try { <<orig code>> } catch(err) { alert('Defaults failed!!! ' + err.message); }
10:19 tsbere mrpeters: That should pre-empt any other error-eating code
10:29 Bmagic Did we ever come to a conclusion on getting evergreen to apply a custom group penalty when clicking the refresh button?
10:29 mrpeters tsbere: thanks, ill give that a shot
10:30 tsbere Bmagic: What do you mean custom group penalty?
10:31 Bmagic tsbere: Apparenty we have defined a custom penalty called PATRON_EXCEEDS_FINES_FOR_HOLDS (it was before my time) but I am realizing that the system is not applying the standing penalty when the patron meets the criteria
10:31 jeff Bmagic: if i recall correctly from the earlier conversation, code at either or both of the perl and sql layers would need to be written. it would be either a local customization or a new feature.
10:32 kmlussier Bmagic: I think the conclusion from bshum was that it would take additional development.
10:33 Bmagic Just to be clear: Nobody can define a standing penalty and have it auto apply?
10:34 Bmagic Also to be clear: The standing penalty that I mentioned is in fact custom (I didnt create it but someone else might have)
10:34 tsbere Bmagic: How is the system supposed to know what to do about that penalty? Someone has to add code so that the system knows what is supposed to be done with it.
10:34 Bmagic That was a question (is  PATRON_EXCEEDS_FINES_FOR_HOLDS custom?)
10:35 kmlussier Bmagic: We did have somebody who once tried creating an action/trigger using the ApplyPatronPenalty, but she was never able to get it to work. http://markmail.org/message/2mkrfpx3of7ddy3i
10:36 Bmagic tsbere: logically it would make since that the system has all of the pieces to know what to do with it. There is the definition and the block list says HOLD. And defined in "Penalty Threshold" is an associated org unit with a dollar amount..... I guess the system doesnt know that it's a dollar amount?
10:37 kmlussier Bmagic: No, it doesn't know it's a dollar amount. For some penalties, it's actually a count that is entered there.
10:37 Bmagic kmlussier: aha! It's all coming together now
10:38 Bmagic So really, the system needs one more connection, tell it what value that threshold is supposed to be compared to
10:38 kmlussier Bmagic: To answer your previous question, I don't see PATRON_EXCEEDS_FINES_FOR_HOLDS in any of our systems, so I would say it is indeed custom.
10:38 Bmagic kmlussier++
10:38 kmlussier Sorry, when you were asking about this the other day, I misunderstood and thought you created it.
10:40 Bmagic I didnt create it. And it looks pretty legit with the way it's named. Accept for 2 things: The staff client show's it database ID in black instead of red. All of the other definitions are red in the UI. It's database ID is also a larger number (102)
10:41 Bmagic tsbere++
10:41 Bmagic jeff++
10:41 Bmagic I can put this one to bed
10:53 pinesol_green [evergreen|Ben Shum] Documentation for adding OpenSearch to Firefox - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=ba0e6c0>
10:56 jboyer-isl Is anyone in here familiar with metabib.metarecord? I'm trying to find out why a record isn't appearing in searches and the mods field of that table is null for 2464334 records, and not null for 48723. That seems a little crazy.
10:57 remingtron bshum: I pushed in your OpenSearch docs. Thanks!
10:59 jboyer-isl And there are apparently 125862 more biblio.record_entries than even exist in metabib.metarecord. D:
11:02 jeff jboyer-isl: that second is not abnormal at all.
11:02 jeff jboyer-isl: compare counts of these two queries:
11:03 jeff select count(*) from metabib.metarecord_source_map;
11:03 jeff select count(*) from biblio.record_entry where not deleted;
11:04 jeff jboyer-isl: in theory, those two should match. they do in our system.
11:05 jboyer-isl jeff: given those queries mmsm has 223397 more entries than bre.
11:05 jeff jboyer-isl: metabib.metarecord_source_map ties one or more biblio.record_entry rows to a metabib.metarecord row.
11:06 jboyer-isl Provided their fingerprints match? I guess the structure of .metarecord didn't look like it aggregated things.
11:06 jboyer-isl At least not at first glance.
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11:48 dbwells jboyer-isl: On what version are you seeing these metarecord issues?
11:52 jboyer-isl dbwells: 2.5.2
11:53 dbwells jboyer-isl: metarecords didn't get much love in 2.5 since they weren't used by TPAC yet.  That's changed in 2.6, and some bugs were fixed along the way.  See 0872 for instance.
11:54 dbwells I'm not sure if some of that would be worth backporting or not.
11:55 jboyer-isl I'll check it out, thanks
11:56 jboyer-isl dbwells++
11:56 dbwells All things considered, metarecords are fairly simple to rebuild from scratch if/when needed.
11:59 jboyer-isl Are they not tied to re/ingests? I've only just begun looking into them this morning so I'm starting from 0 on them.
12:00 dbwells Yes, but like many parts of a full reingest, they can be generated separately as well.
12:03 Dyrcona quick_metarecord_map.sql still works and is fairly quick as far as that goes.
12:03 dbwells Yes, was about to say something about that: Open-ILS/src/extras/import​/quick_metarecord_map.sql
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12:04 Dyrcona By "quick" I mean minutes, not hours.
12:04 dbwells I wasn't sure if it was up to date or not, Dyrcona++
12:05 Dyrcona It seems to be thought the first insert gives me 0 0.
12:06 dbwells I would expect that unless you had missing metarecords.
12:07 Dyrcona Yeah, I didn't worry about it.
12:07 Dyrcona "thought" should have "though" -- silly fingers.
12:08 dbwells So a true "start-over" would mean emptying those tables, then running the quick map.  I think.
12:08 dbwells I nominate jboyer-isl to try it and let us know.
12:09 dbwells ;)
12:09 jeff which is probably a good argument for any future "manual tuning" of metarecords to exist as overrides outside that table... maybe.
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12:28 jboyer-isl As luck would have it we just got a test database server large enough to handle a full dump/restore of our production data. Maybe I'll try that out sometime. As for now though, I think I will give quick_metarecord_map.sql a looking-over.
12:29 jboyer-isl Thanks!
12:32 kmlussier remingtron: A question on the 2.6 features that need documentation. For the removal of open-ils.ingest service, does the removal of a service require documentation?
12:33 kmlussier Or is there some documentation already that needs to be removed?
12:34 remingtron kmlussier: I guess the task of that feature assignment would be to answer the second question.
12:34 kmlussier remingtron: OK, then, I can sign up for that one. :)
12:35 remingtron kmlussier: and maybe to consider what that service used to do and provide a note about how that is done now
12:36 kmlussier remingtron: OK, then, I can do the investigation to get those questions answered. Thanks!
12:36 remingtron kmlussier: thank you!
12:37 dbs kmlussier: short answer: ingest is now done in the database itself, as soon as you insert a new bib or authority record
12:37 dbs kmlussier: and the removal of a service should be documented in as much as one should disable or remove the service definition from opensrf.xml / opensrf_core.xml
12:38 dbs (saves resources, possibly saves breakage)
12:39 jeffdavis Has anyone run into an issue where a MARC record can't be saved because there are too many 856 tags?
12:43 * phasefx saw one where there was a <controlfield tag=""/> that broke stuff
12:44 eeevil jeffdavis: is it timing out?
12:45 jeffdavis eeevil: That is my suspicion, but I haven't confirmed yet.
12:46 kmlussier dbs: Thanks for the additional guidance.
12:48 eeevil jeffdavis: ah ... might need an index in the uri area (search for existing uris, etc), but I didn't look just now
12:48 kmlussier So that info was documented upgrade notes area of the release notes, which seems to be a good place for it. And it needs to be added to the official docs too? Since our docs are now carried over from release to release, I'm just worried it will continue to be there in the days of Evegreen 4.5 when people don't even remember what the open-ils.ingest service was.
12:53 jeffdavis eeevil: adding indexes is a good idea, I'll play with that a bit
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13:03 dbs kmlussier: take a look at how postgresql does release notes: www.postgresql.org/docs/9.2/static/release.html -- could be a useful model
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13:34 csharp dbs++ # agreed
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13:37 kmlussier dbs: I like the way it lists all of the past release notes on one page. I also like the notes for point releases. For a brief period, wasn't Evergreen doing notes for point releases?
13:38 kmlussier I often get question on which bugs were fixed in a point release, so I think it could be useful.
13:40 kmlussier @dessert
13:41 * pinesol_green grabs some of mllewellyn's Cupcakes for kmlussier
13:41 kmlussier Ooh! Lucky me! Just what I need for the EOB meeting.
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13:51 eeevil kmlussier: I did do point release notes back in the long-long ago. we tend to list bug fixes in the announcement, which is a start, I guess
13:52 * kmlussier apparently doesn't read the announcements very closely. ;)
13:53 kmlussier It probably would be fairly easy for the DIG release coordinator to take those announcements and turn them into point release notes.
13:54 eeevil kmlussier: well ... "list" might be strong. I mentioned the areas where they occurred in the 2.4 releases.
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13:56 hbrennan Since dwells started giving out awards, I've been paying closer attention to all the notes. Since receiving an award for reporting one bug, I'm hooked. It makes it more fun.
13:56 bbqben Hi all - JFYI - EOB mtg starting here in 5 minutes
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14:03 bbqben ok, let's get this rolling / see if I can avoid botching things this time. Morning/afternoon to you all
14:03 bbqben #startmeeting Evergreen Oversight Board Meeting, 15.05.14
14:03 pinesol_green Meeting started Thu May 15 14:03:27 2014 US/Eastern.  The chair is bbqben. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:03 pinesol_green Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:03 pinesol_green The meeting name has been set to 'evergreen_oversight_board_meeting__15_05_14'
14:03 bbqben #topic introductions
14:03 bbqben EOB members, please introduce yourself with #info
14:04 kmlussier #info Kathy Lussier, MassLNC
14:04 bbqben #info bbqben = Ben Hyman, BC Libraries Co-op / Sitka
14:04 sborger #info sborger=Shauna Borger, EI
14:04 montgoc1 #info montgoc1 = Chauncey Montgomery, Consortium of Ohio Libraries
14:04 abneiman #info abneiman = Andrea Buntz Neiman, Kent County Public Library
14:04 RoganH_ #info RoganH = Rogan Hamby, SCLENDS
14:04 graced #info graced is Grace Dunbar, Equinox
14:04 yboston #info yboston - Yamil Suarez, Berklee College of Music
14:05 bbqben #topic Minutes/Actions from last meeting
14:05 bbqben #info http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2014/evergreen.2014-04-17-14.02.html
14:06 bbqben so, several pieces here; will break them down by topic
14:06 bbqben #topic Terms of Reference - Establishment of Emergency Project Fund
14:06 bbqben #info http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/​eg-oversight-board/2014-May/000785.html
14:07 bbqben one piece omitted in this draft - that the mascot might properly be the illuminated moose from our meeting room in Cambridge
14:08 bbqben all good task groups need a mascot?
14:08 bbqben any discussion on that or the actual draft?
14:08 kmlussier bbqben: +1
14:09 kmlussier bbqben: I just thought of something that I hadn't thought of on my first read. Should we be identifying the scope of what the Emergency Fund might be used for?
14:10 graced kmlussier: good point, that might be useful in focusing the process
14:10 bbqben kmlussier: yes, perhaps as a recommendation at the end? In other words - we may discover that the scope is pre-determined along the way
14:12 kmlussier Sure. I don't have much opinion on where in the process it falls. But if we don't define what might constitute an emergency, the funds may just sit there doing nothing or they might be used for frivolous things like purchasing a big illuminated moose for the conference.
14:12 bbqben ok, so with that amendment (to revise the scope of recommendations to include commentary on the fund's purpose), lets see if I can whip up a vote for us unless anyone has further comment
14:13 bbqben kmlussier: illuminated moose is not frivolous!
14:13 kmlussier bbqben: I agree that it can be useful to encourage brainstorming.
14:13 * gmcharlt has an idea for a debate panel at the next conference
14:14 RoganH_ http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs​/illuminated-faux-taxidermy-moose.jpeg
14:14 graced and by debate panel, gmcharlt means "bar"
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14:14 kmlussier bbqben: I'm prepared to vote in favor.
14:14 bbqben #startvote Adopt the Terms of Reference for the investigation into the establishment of an Emergency Fund for the Evergreen Project, as amended Yes, No, Abstain
14:14 pinesol_green Unable to parse vote topic and options.
14:14 bbqben blech. syntax help pls
14:15 graced bbqben: are you missing a "?" again?
14:15 gmcharlt yep
14:15 bbqben punctuation is so 1990's
14:15 bbqben #startvote Adopt the Terms of Reference for the investigation into the establishment of an Emergency Fund for the Evergreen Project, as amended? Yes, No, Abstain
14:15 pinesol_green Begin voting on: Adopt the Terms of Reference for the investigation into the establishment of an Emergency Fund for the Evergreen Project, as amended? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
14:15 pinesol_green Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:16 kmlussier Yes
14:16 kmlussier #vote Yes
14:16 sborger #vote Yes
14:16 montgoc1 #vote Yes
14:16 graced #vote Yes
14:16 RoganH_ #vote Yes
14:16 yboston #vote yes
14:16 abneiman #vote yes
14:16 bbqben #vote yes
14:17 bbqben #endvote
14:17 pinesol_green Voted on "Adopt the Terms of Reference for the investigation into the establishment of an Emergency Fund for the Evergreen Project, as amended?" Results are
14:17 pinesol_green Yes (8): kmlussier, yboston, bbqben, graced, montgoc1, RoganH_, sborger, abneiman
14:17 * kmlussier makes a note to add voting to the Evergreen wiki page with Meetbot commands
14:17 bbqben #topic Conference Photography Proposal (Kathy)
14:17 bbqben #info thread at http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/​eg-oversight-board/2014-May/000748.html
14:18 bbqben kmlussier: care to open?
14:18 kmlussier I don't think there has been much disagreement on the text of the policy. Most of the questions have revolved around implementation and whether a speaker should be covered under the policy.
14:20 RoganH_ My question at this point is what enforcement will the policy have?
14:20 kmlussier Well, I guess the first question is whether willfully violating this policy would be considered a violation of the code of conduct. In some cases, it might be, but maybe not all.
14:21 bbqben suggesting some discretion on the part of the organizing committee perhaps
14:22 RoganH_ I don't have a strong objection to allowing speakers to opt in but I think violation is inevitable whether accidental or willingly and I think we have to know how we're going to handle it and outline it in the policy.
14:22 kmlussier Do we need to add something that says, when there is a violation, a request will be made to take the photograph down. If the photograph isn't taken down, then more repercussions (banning from the conference) might be considered?
14:22 kmlussier RoganH_: I think that type of scenario could happen with both speakers and attendees.
14:23 graced Well, if the offense is caught on-site, then the person should be deleting the photograph from the device, too.
14:23 RoganH_ kmlussier: I agree.
14:23 bbqben agreement ++ ;)
14:23 kmlussier graced: I agree.
14:24 RoganH_ There needs to be an outline of escalation.  Asking to delete, explaining policy and moving up to removal and/or ban from future events.
14:24 graced I think that's a fair outline.
14:24 montgoc1 That sounds good.
14:24 RoganH_ That also helps protect us legally by outlining consequences.
14:25 kmlussier OK, I can add that.
14:25 graced And we should probably consider putting a slide up between presentations outlining the policy as a reminder.
14:25 kmlussier I also haven't run this by the SFC other than including them in the original e-mail. I probably should get some feedback from them before it's approved.
14:25 kmlussier graced: That's a good idea.
14:25 yboston grace beat me to it, should we send a message to those in the next conference planning committee (and the proposed "standing" comittee) to ensure that the harrasment policy and photography policy be mentioned or posted in a clear way at the start of the ocnference or during registration. that way to better educate our community, and to help cut down on misunderstandings
14:26 yboston *conference
14:26 bbqben #action: kmlussier to discuss amended draft policy with SFC for next meeting
14:26 kmlussier yboston: I've already spoken to the next conference planning group about getting the word out widely about the new policies.
14:26 yboston kmlussier: excelent
14:26 gmcharlt the proposal for a standing conference committee dovetails nicely with the possibility of having to enforce bans in the future
14:27 bbqben Good convo - thanks everyone. More chance to discuss next meeting pending SFC feedback
14:27 gmcharlt (unless the EOB choose not to delegate that particular responsiblity)
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14:27 bbqben #topic Reinstating Community IRC meetings (Kathy)
14:28 kmlussier At the last meeting, there seemed to be a lot of support for reinstating the meetings.
14:28 kmlussier I think the action item was for everyone to think of what might be covered at the meetings.
14:29 kmlussier We had talked about how the old meetings ended up devolving into a one-hour timeframe where the different community groups delivered reports.
14:29 kmlussier I would like to offer those community groups the opportunity to discuss or show something at the meeting, but perhaps not make it a standing agenda item for every group to report.
14:30 kmlussier Did anyone else have some other ideas?
14:31 montgoc1 I liked the idea that reports would be posted prior to the meeting.
14:31 yboston montgoc1 +1
14:31 montgoc1 Then there could be discussion at the meeting.
14:31 bbqben kmlussier; correct re: action items. One of the concerns was the devolution you reference - is there a way to sync the theme of the meetings with broader strategic initiatives underway (e.g. in a post-emergency fund established type world)
14:31 yboston we can alwats ask the community if there are topics that poeple want to dicsuss
14:32 sborger Not sure how this would actually work but it would be really valuable to talk about the most current Evergreen hot topics and then ask participants to give their local updates with regards to those topics.
14:32 sborger Example: Acquisitions. Then we can ask participants to talk a bit about what they are currently doing with acquisitions.
14:32 sborger yboston +1
14:33 abneiman sborger +1
14:33 kmlussier So this goes along with the theme idea that was mentioned at the last meeting?
14:33 abneiman like how we have the interest groups at the conference -- what are you doing, what are your questions, but more than once a year
14:33 sborger Yes, the theme idea is a good one.
14:34 yboston we can suggest a few topics to the community and get votes to see which ones to cover at the first couple of meetings
14:34 sborger abnieman Yes, that's exactly right. We get a lot out of sharing that information so let's try to do it more often.
14:34 kmlussier But maybe the themes could be a little broader than a specific interest group area?
14:34 bbqben I've lost the thread - were we thinking quarterly? or?
14:35 kmlussier Because I'm thinking there are already interest groups meeting (well, one interest group) between conferences outside the context of community meetings.
14:35 kmlussier I personally was thinkning quarterly. Monthly seems like it would be difficult.
14:35 graced +1 to quarterly
14:35 montgoc1 I think attendance would be better if it were quarterly.
14:35 yboston on a related note, I was really enjoying the monthly EG newsletter. Perhpas we can promote that the interest group try to feed their reports more directly to those that are creating the newsletter
14:36 abneiman I was under the impression that we were considered quarterly.  And I'm certainly not opposed to broader topics.
14:36 abneiman considering, rather
14:36 montgoc1 yboston +1
14:36 bbqben quarterly, with pre-set themes for the year would enable cross promotion in the newsletter & maximum procrastination time too
14:38 bbqben ok, so I'll invent an action here
14:39 bbqben #action kmlussier et al to generate four themes / discuss by email before next eob meeting
14:39 bbqben #topic Financial Report
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14:39 bbqben #info http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/​eg-oversight-board/2014-May/000772.html
14:39 bbqben gmcharlt +1
14:40 krvmga here's a search http://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/results?qu​ery=moby+dick&amp;fg%3Aformat_filters=6&a​mp;qtype=keyword&amp;locg=153&amp;sort=
14:40 krvmga i don't understand why the children's stuff shows up first
14:40 kmlussier krvmga: We're in the middle of a meeting right now, but we'll be wrapping up in about 20 minutes.
14:40 * krvmga apologizes
14:40 bbqben JFYI - kmlussier has initiated her own access to ledger via SFC
14:41 bbqben & thanks to gmcharlt for offering mind meld session / getting scheduling underway
14:41 bbqben any q's / observations about the finances?
14:41 bbqben kmlussier - books closed on the 2014 conference?
14:42 kmlussier bbqben: I think so, but let me check on that. I'll let you know.
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14:42 sborger I assume the graphic design expenses are to do with designing conference materials. Or are they design expenses for the t-shirts?
14:43 RoganH_ The Zazzle tshirts?
14:44 kmlussier sborger: If they included printing in there, that looks along the lines of what we did for the conference.
14:45 abneiman Stupid question, but I've always wondered.  Why are liabilities listed positive, and assets listed negative?
14:45 gmcharlt abneiman: just the accounting convention that the ledger users
14:45 gmcharlt *uses
14:46 abneiman OK, thanks.
14:46 bbqben abneiman: reverse accounting psychology
14:46 bbqben ok, moving on
14:46 bbqben #topic Evergreen 2.7 Release Manager's Report
14:47 kmlussier bshum is in London.
14:47 bbqben mmm ... bhsum away, IIRC
14:47 bbqben London ++
14:48 bbqben sorry, heavily caffeinated today. anyone else care to comment on 2.7 or shall we move on?
14:49 bbqben fair enough - we'll catch up on this next time
14:49 bbqben #Topic Evergreen Conference Report(s)
14:49 bbqben How are Buzzy and gang doing in Oregon?
14:50 kmlussier Amy and I had a call with Buzzy a couple of weeks ago to hand things off. I'm pulling together lots of documents to send to him.
14:50 kmlussier I think I forgot to mention that there are conference committee reports at the EOB meetings.
14:51 bbqben Glad to hear the hand off has begun. kmlussier reminds me that I skipped a relevant topic so let's go there now
14:51 bbqben #Topic Standing Conference Planning Committee Proposal
14:52 bbqben #info http://list.evergreen-ils.org/pipermail/​eg-oversight-board/2014-May/000787.html
14:52 bbqben kmlussier, over to you
14:52 mrpeters left #evergreen
14:52 kmlussier The proposal's in the e-mail. Does it look good to everyone?
14:52 yboston yes
14:53 montgoc1 Yes
14:53 graced yes
14:53 bbqben marvelous
14:53 abneiman yes
14:54 sborger kmlussier +1
14:54 bbqben fair if we write up a terms of reference
14:54 bbqben if not an insane idea, will make that an action
14:54 sborger I think this will make a huge different for ease of local planning and consistancy between conferences.
14:55 kmlussier A terms of reference might be good. But, if possible, can we begin recruiting for the standing committee now so that we can begin working with Buzzy and his crew as soon as possible?
14:55 sborger bbqben What do you mean by terms of reference?
14:56 bbqben kmlussier: works for me
14:56 bbqben sborger: outlining the scope of the standing committee just to keep things clear for all parties, including the SFC
14:56 sborger Thanks, sounds good.
14:57 bbqben great, ok 2 actions then...
14:57 bbqben #action kmlussier and graced to draft a Terms of Reference for a Standing Confernce Planning Committee
14:57 bbqben #action call for volunteers for standing conference planning committee
14:58 bbqben kmlussier: were you wanting to call for volunteers like _now_?
14:58 krvmga i'm willing to volunteer.
14:59 kmlussier Now, as in this IRC room? No. But I can send out an e-mail.
14:59 kmlussier Maybe tomororw?
14:59 bbqben kmlussier - ok. krvmga - thanks!
15:00 bbqben conscious of time - yboston ok if we carry on the thread re: oclc records via mail?
15:00 yboston sure
15:00 bbqben yboston: thank you sir!
15:01 Elizabeth joined #evergreen
15:01 bbqben #topic Research if EG community can use OCLC records
15:01 bbqben #action  carry on conversation via mail
15:01 bbqben #topic Next meeting
15:02 bbqben I wondered whether we might like to meet by phone perhaps at the next (or the one after) regular meeting.
15:02 bbqben I'll get a survey out next week to see what you think
15:02 kmlussier bbqben: Out of curiousity, why by phone?
15:03 bbqben kmlussier: thought you'd never ask!
15:04 bbqben Came to my attention at the conference that some folks feel a little je ne sais quoi about IRC - just wanting to test the waters on that especially around strategic discussions, e.g.
15:05 bbqben Obviously IRC provides a very full record of the conversation, and is totally inclusive - not wanting to sacrifice that, but perhaps go after some of the tonal qualities
15:05 bbqben e.g. a recorded teleconference once / twice a year
15:05 bbqben anyways, you asked. I'll survey :)
15:05 krvmga and there could be a transcript anyway
15:06 bbqben ok, unless there's no other business (in 10 seconds...)
15:07 bbqben our next meeting is 19.06.14 @ 11 Pacific
15:07 bbqben thanks all for coming out / have a great Thursday & here's hoping you maybe get Monday off
15:07 bbqben #endmeeting
15:08 pinesol_green Meeting ended Thu May 15 15:07:59 2014 US/Eastern.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
15:08 pinesol_green Minutes:        http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2014/evergreen.2014-05-15-14.03.html
15:08 pinesol_green Minutes (text): http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergr​een/2014/evergreen.2014-05-15-14.03.txt
15:08 pinesol_green Log:            http://evergreen-ils.org/meetings/evergree​n/2014/evergreen.2014-05-15-14.03.log.html
15:08 graced bbqben++
15:08 kmlussier bbqben: Do you get Monday off?
15:08 kmlussier bbqben++
15:09 bbqben kmlussier; "off" - technically, it is a civic holiday here, but we're in the middle of our 13/14 audit, so ... how about you?
15:09 kmlussier No holiday on this side of the border. :(
15:09 kmlussier We get one the week after.
15:10 RoganH_ Every day is a holiday for me.  (not really)
15:11 kmlussier RoganH_: Sure, I get that "always on a holiday" vibe from you.
15:11 * RoganH_ starts looking for cerveza.
15:12 bbqben RoganH_ ++
15:12 kmlussier A question for the devs in the room who didn't fall asleep during the EOB meeing. Do you think it would be a problem to change the dev meeting from Monday to Tuesday at the same time?
15:13 Dyrcona I can't guarantee that I can make a Tuesday meeting.
15:13 kmlussier I chose Monday because it was the best day when all of the core commiters could attend. But it turns out one core commiter couldn't make the Monday meeting, so I was thinking of switching to a day that worked for more people.
15:13 Dyrcona We have executive and membership annual meetings that day.
15:14 kmlussier Dyrcona: Ok, then I'll stick with Monday since you are a core commiter too.
15:15 RoganH_ I'll throw out that if someone is thinking about hosting the Hack-A-Way I encourage them to come forth.  I have one tentative offer and while the locale is great it may be a way off for a lot of folks.
15:19 csharp one does not simply host the Hack-A-Way
15:19 csharp RoganH_: how far away? (or is that secret at the moment?)
15:20 RoganH_ It's not public knowledge since it's a tentative offer.  It's a great place and great folks but a long trip for many.
15:25 krvmga ok, back to my question. why do the children's materials show up first in this search of our catalog http://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/results?qu​ery=moby+dick&amp;fg%3Aformat_filters=6&a​mp;qtype=keyword&amp;locg=153&amp;sort=
15:25 krvmga i can't figure it out
15:25 krvmga it's a search for moby dick
15:25 kmlussier krvmga: The bib records look small.
15:26 kmlussier krvmga: http://markmail.org/message/ykzdejpb735t33t2
15:27 krvmga kmlussier: i see the question has not been answered for over two years.
15:27 kmlussier krvmga: The question was answered.
15:27 krvmga whoops! sorry missed that.
15:28 kmlussier krvmga: I don't know the best way to address that issue, but I don't advise changing those CD_modifiers settings. We did it on your system for a brief period, and it resulted in terrible relevance ranking for most of your searches.
15:29 * kmlussier can give you more details if you want to walk over to her desk. :)
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15:39 jboyer-isl Speaking of mysteries; Re: my earlier metabib.metarecord strangeness from this morning, it seems that this record simply will not populate metabib.record_attr no matter what: https://evergreen.lib.in.us/eg/opac/re​cord/20155257?expand=marchtml#marchtml
15:41 jboyer-isl I've changed the reingest_on_same_marc (or similar) flag and triggered it by hand, edited it in the staff client, etc. nothing works. The annoying result is that in the client you can select Search, Title by TCN and pull it up, but TCN searching in the OPAC is a no-go.
15:41 jeff jboyer-isl: is there no row for that bib in mra?
15:42 jboyer-isl jeff: Nope.
15:42 jeff jboyer-isl: i believe if you've gotten into a situation where the bib exists but the mra row has somehow been deleted, it will not be re-created (only updated if it already exists)
15:43 kmlussier phasefx: You raise an interesting question. Would the patron have to see "PATRON_EXCEEDS_FINES" or could it be offered in more user friendly language?
15:43 jboyer-isl So I could insert a bogus set of attrs and then save the record, perhaps?
15:43 phasefx kmlussier: if the age protected item wasn't there, Patron A would have seen "Patron has reached the maximum fine amount"
15:44 phasefx kmlussier: but the other error message is trumping that error message
15:44 jeff jboyer-isl: yes, or even a null value in the attrs column (can't remember if it can be null)
15:44 jboyer-isl Trying it out as we type. (''::HSTORE also works)
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15:45 kmlussier It's an interesting question to ponder. My knee jerk reaction was that patrons don't want to see a big list of reasons, but I'm reconsidering.
15:46 * csharp thinks end users get confused if you get too specific about reasons
15:46 jboyer-isl jeff: ah-ha. That does allow it to populate. Now to see if it helps searching at all.
15:46 phasefx maybe we can come up with a simple hierarchy of errors, or some heuristic for emphasizing one over another
15:46 csharp (despite the innate librarian urge to communicate via signs, etc.)
15:47 phasefx but that might be a rabbit hole
15:47 kmlussier phasefx: In that world, it seems like age hold protected messages should come last in the hierarchy.
15:47 phasefx yet this whole set of functionality was a reaction to folks not liking the "hold failed, go see a librarian" thing
15:47 eeevil jboyer-isl: sounds like you might be missing a fix ... I thought I added some protection against re-vivicated records losing their record_attr row
15:47 kmlussier csharp / phasefx: I think staff would find it useful to see a list of reasons.
15:48 phasefx kmlussier: or non-item specific failures should come first
15:48 kmlussier phasefx: Yes, I agree.
15:48 * csharp wonders if a "for details click here" link would be appropriate
15:48 jeff eeevil: ah. i couldn't remember if there was a fix, or even a bug on it.
15:48 eeevil (or, if not, you can make sure all have one pretty easily)
15:48 phasefx kmlussier: in the case of the age protect failure, that failure was just on one item, and didn't apply to other items.  And since the hold was a title hold, and not an item hold, it's very misleading
15:49 eeevil jeff: it may not have hit LP, actually. just rolled into a larger fix
15:49 * jeff nods
15:49 jboyer-isl eeevil: depends on where it fell in the upgrade scripts. I recently had to add 6 or 7 in the 084X range recently.
15:49 jboyer-isl And I've apparently graduated from the department of redundancy department.
15:50 eeevil jboyer-isl: oh, it's much earlier than that ... if I'm not mis-remembering
15:51 kmlussier phasefx: So if age protect failure came last, it wouldn't show in that particular situation because the old would go through?
15:51 kmlussier Unless there was another reason to block the hold, which would have come first.
15:52 jboyer-isl eeevil: Not all of our upgrade patches over the years have been applied 100% in order... :/
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15:53 jboyer-isl It's been frustrating to determine what is and isn't a problem vs. our problem.
15:53 phasefx kmlussier: I'm not sure if the reason the age failure is showing over the fines failure is due to order of the results, or the "kind" of result in the error message map file.  Patron B, when placing the hold, ultimately succeeded, even though Item A resulted in a age failure, Item B was fine.  But Patron B, couldn't get either Item A or Item B, and all the failure reasons got pooled together
15:53 * Dyrcona sympathizes with jboyer-isl.
15:53 phasefx kmlussier: sorry, Patron A, couldn't get either, I mean
15:54 * Dyrcona just figured out one of those "a problem vs. our problem" things.
15:54 eeevil kmlussier: I looked into this earlier, and it seems order is less important than "type" ... IOW, some things are dealt with in the DB, some in the ML , and some just reported by the UI
15:54 Dyrcona It was our problem.
15:54 phasefx kmlussier: for Patron A, we have Item A -> age failure, fine failure, Item B -> fine failure.   entire hold placement attempt was a failure, and all reasons were returned, but the UI only showed the age failure
15:54 mmorgan phasefx: kmlussier: Trying to catch up on the scrollback. I think it's useful for patrons to know why their hold failed, but I'm not sure they would want to see a long list of reasons.
15:54 phasefx kmlussier: for Patron B, we have Item A -> age failure, Item B -> success.  entire hold placement attempt was a success
15:55 jboyer-isl Dyrcona: I was curious about how that would end up. How was it fixed?
15:55 Dyrcona jboyer-isl: This is something else. :)
15:55 jboyer-isl (Or is this not the maketext thing?)
15:55 jboyer-isl Ah.
15:55 Dyrcona The maketext thing seems resolved by berick's code.
15:56 Dyrcona I just figured out and fixed why our manage authorities screen looked like this: https://jason.mvlcstaff.org/manage_authorities.png
15:56 * kmlussier likes the idea of a hierarchy of errors.
15:56 Bmagic Off the top of your head, does anyone know the table in the database that contains "Library Settings"
15:57 mmorgan So with a hierarchy of errors, would the patron see only one?
15:57 kmlussier If that were a plausible option, I would vote for that one. If not, then maybe csharp's "more details" link might work?
15:57 berick Bmagic: actor.org_unit_setting has the values
15:57 Dyrcona Bmagic: actor.org_unit_setting and config.org_unti_setting_type
15:57 * Dyrcona prefers a confederacy of dunces. :)
15:58 berick Dyrcona++ maketext testing
15:58 Bmagic berick++ Dyrcona++
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15:59 kmlussier Did the ESI quassel server just crash?
15:59 yboston Dyrcona: I am late to the gane, what was it that fixed the issue?
16:00 Dyrcona yboston: I didn't say. :)
16:00 jboyer-isl It was an impressive error, I must say.
16:00 Dyrcona We had some lines in Apache config that we didn't need any longer and it was affecting /eg/cat/authority.
16:00 phasefx2 kmlussier: mmorgan: before losing internet, I was saying maybe we need to emphasize the errors held in common across all items testef
16:00 Dyrcona yboston: You saw the screenshot above?
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16:01 yboston Dyrcona: yes, and it the issue was shown in the authoriites meeting
16:01 Dyrcona yboston: I don't think anyone else had seen that on their systems though.
16:02 kmlussier phasefx2: And it would still just show one error, right?
16:02 yboston Dyrcona: then again, not a lot of people are using authoritites
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16:02 Dyrcona yboston: I don't think anyone else will see it. It was something that was not working at one point, so we added some apache config to "fix" that.
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16:03 yboston Dyrcona: good to knoe
16:03 yboston know
16:03 Dyrcona yboston: Later, when the problem was resolved, the apache config made the view come out scrambled.
16:03 yboston Dyrcona: I see
16:03 mmorgan phasefx2: trying to understand. If there are a number of age protected items, and only one patron exceeds fines, and we were emphasizing common errors, would it be the age protection that shows?
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16:03 mmorgan Because that's misleading to the patron.
16:03 kmlussier phasefx2: Or are you saying it would provide a list, but just show the errors that are across all items?
16:04 phasefx2 Phone typing = painful :)
16:04 mmorgan Ouch!
16:04 Dyrcona phasefx2: Indeed!
16:04 kmlussier mmorgan: No, I don't think he said we are emphasizing common errors. We would emphasize the ones that apply to all copies. Like exceeding max fines.
16:05 mmorgan Ok, makes sense.
16:05 * kmlussier is trying to speak for phasefx2 so that he doesn't have to type on the phone.
16:05 phasefx2 Right now, age protect failure reason trumps fine failure reason for display
16:06 phasefx joined #evergreen
16:06 kmlussier phasefx: Welcome back!
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16:06 phasefx we could hard-code some exception to that, so that fine exception displays over age exception, but it's not elegant, and wouldn't cover any other cases in the same vein that might crop up
16:07 phasefx thanks :)
16:07 mmorgan Actually, this is more complicated. In our situation, age protect shouldn't be a failure at all.
16:07 phasefx and, I'm not familiar with that code at all, so don't know how hairy it might really be
16:08 kmlussier mmorgan: Because you have the auto-override setting set to True?
16:08 phasefx mmorgan: yeah, it's really the fines reason that failed the entire hold for your test patron
16:08 mmorgan kmlussier: Yes
16:08 phasefx but the way it works now, is that all the failure reasons come across the wire, if the hold fails altogether
16:08 phasefx and the UI picks one over another
16:09 phasefx so one thought is that maybe the only failure reasons we should send over the wire are the ones held in common across all the items that were tested for the hold
16:09 phasefx so in the example, only the fines one would get sent
16:10 phasefx but let's say it was fines and long overdue...  the UI as written today will still pick only one to display
16:10 phasefx but, at least either would make sense
16:11 phasefx it's only the failures that happen for a subset of the items tested that don't make sense
16:11 mmorgan phasefex: Right.
16:12 kmlussier phasefx: So let's say you only send reasons that are held in common across all items. What happens in a case where a patron is trying to place a hold on a title where all of the items are in a copy location, like reference, that doesn't allow holds? They have no other problems on their record that would prevent the hold.
16:12 kmlussier Would they get a reason for the hold failing?
16:12 phasefx yes
16:12 phasefx well
16:12 phasefx I see what you did there
16:13 phasefx let's say all items fail, but for different reasons
16:13 phasefx that's a situation that breaks my idea
16:13 kmlussier Yes, they are all copy-specific reasons.
16:13 phasefx it's like we'd need a meta-event to handle that one
16:13 phasefx No Eligible Items
16:16 kmlussier I hate to throw another monkey wrench in to it, but then you have those age-protected items where patrons are allowed to override the hold block, but the system may not have that auto-override setting set. If all of the items on the record are age-protected, and that's the only issue with the hold, would they still get the option to override?
16:16 phasefx so back to the hierarchy notion.. some events would get precedence over others for being displayed.  how workable that is, I don't know
16:17 kmlussier Holds make my head hurt. Along with authorities and billing.
16:17 mmorgan I'm thinking about displaying more than one failure reason for a hold, or making them all available in a link. I don't think that's a bad idea.
16:17 phasefx kmlussier: I'm not proposing any changes to how overrides work.  You're asking about current behavior?
16:18 mmorgan If you only display one, then the patron (and staff) may think that's the only thing they need to resolve.
16:18 phasefx that's always been an issue
16:18 phasefx say, in the staff client for other actions
16:19 kmlussier phasefx: No, I'm not asking about current behavior. I'm just wondering if the picking which reasons to send down the wire approach would change that behavior.
16:19 phasefx and related, you end overriding everything if you have permission too, and you may not be aware of all the conditions you're overriding
16:20 phasefx kmlussier: yeah, I'm not sure how it works exactly currently, so I don't know how some of these ideas might affect things
16:20 phasefx one reason why I thought it might be a thorny problem
16:20 mmorgan OK, so if you have multiple failure reasons, and have permission to override one but not another, you get the "You have permission...", then hit the override, and nothing happens.
16:21 phasefx is that what happens?  ughers
16:21 * mmorgan has seen this behavior, and wonders if this is why
16:22 * mmorgan 's head hurts, too.
16:22 kmlussier @dessert mmorgan
16:22 * pinesol_green grabs some Lemon Chess Pie for mmorgan
16:22 csharp mmmm pie
16:23 csharp @dessert
16:23 * pinesol_green grabs some Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream for csharp
16:23 mmorgan kmlussier: Thank you!
16:24 mmorgan dessert cures many ills :)
16:24 kmlussier csharp: So should I be adding Lemon Chess Pie to my list of things to try the next time I visit Atlanta? Along with fried chicken and waffles, which I missed out on during my last trip.
16:24 csharp kmlussier: Chess Pie of any variety, yes.  I actually prefer straight-up Chess Pie myself ;-)
16:24 phasefx kmlussier: mmorgan: so right now, all failure events are trumping the PATRON_EXCEEDS_FINE event for display.  We could reverse the order of that test, and let exceeds fine trump everything else :)
16:25 phasefx that looks relatively simple
16:25 csharp America's Test Kitchen's home cookbook has a great recipe for it, btw - it's very easy (as pie baking goes)
16:25 phasefx well, almost all.  if something isn't coded for in the error map, I'm not sure what happens to it
16:25 kmlussier But what about events like exceeding overdue count or others that apply to all copies?
16:26 mmorgan Seems like failures due to blocks on the patron should be more important, and trump failures due to items
16:26 phasefx I don't think there's an explicit friendly message for any of the other standing penalties
16:26 phasefx so that would be a hierarchy
16:26 csharp kmlussier: http://www.takingonmagazines.com/lemon-ch​ess-pie-from-cooks-country-aprilmay-2010/ is pretty close to what I've made before
16:27 kmlussier csharp: ooh! That looks tasty.
16:27 phasefx but maybe not so trivially implemented.  some of the patron based events are coming from the hold matrix, and others are coming from penalties
16:28 phasefx if a hold matrix rule causes a failure, it's not apparent what in the rule caused it
16:29 hbrennan csharp++ for sharing recipes
16:29 phasefx could be item related, org related, patron related.. combination
16:29 mmorgan So holds can fail because the patron is blocked, because of a hold matrix rule, and because of some characteristic of the item.
16:30 mmorgan And the failure reasons come through in what order? Is it random?
16:30 phasefx maybe in part, where it loops over items
16:32 phasefx and there are two maps in hold_error_messages.tt2, FAIL_PART_MSG_MAP and EVENT_MSG_MAP.  The first gets precedence over the second (and the second is where PATRON_EXCEEDS_FINES is defined/translated)
16:32 mmorgan If a patron is blocked, and can't place a hold at all, does it still loop over all the items? Sounds like it does.
16:33 phasefx let's say something is handled by FAIL_PART_MSG_MAP.. I'm not sure if it's the first event or the last event in the list of failure events that get returned
16:33 phasefx mmorgan: I think that's a true statement
16:34 phasefx and then if you override, it's looping through all the events, and testing for related .override permissions on each one
16:35 mmorgan Doesn't seem very efficient ;-)
16:35 phasefx this stuff evolves :)  the tests used to be javascript, and it was efficient enough for a while
16:36 phasefx then the move to in-db circ; much faster, but maybe room for improvement still
16:36 kmlussier Patron Exceeds Fines is the only event in EVENT_MSG_MAP? Am I reading that right?
16:36 phasefx of course, if we could get rid of all the flexibility, we could make it very efficient :D
16:37 phasefx kmlussier: yeap
16:37 phasefx so you'd have to add entries for other standing penalties to get them translated.  I'm not sure what happens if an event not listed is returned
16:38 phasefx looks like it'll eventually just return the raw fail_part or event textcode
16:38 mmorgan Where is EVENT_MSG_MAP?
16:38 phasefx so, if PATRON_EXCEEDS_FINE wasn't listed there, you'd actually see "PATRON_EXCEEDS_FINES"
16:38 kmlussier phasefx: That's what I was thinking. But it should be easy enough for one of us to test.
16:39 kmlussier You can see it in the hold_error_messages.tt2 file. I'm looking at it here: http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen​.git;a=blob;f=Open-ILS/src/templates/opac​/parts/hold_error_messages.tt2;h=50a0ebff​941e408770ce5b9f970ca61d6266563f;hb=HEAD
16:39 phasefx would probably be an improvement to show the event's native description rather than the textcode at that point
16:39 mmorgan Oh, ok, it's in the .tt2 file. Duh.
16:40 phasefx place_hold_result.tt2 is where hold_error_messages.tt2 actually gets used
16:40 phasefx search for Problem: in that file
16:42 kmlussier phasefx: Is improving the language just a matter of adding PATRON_EXCEEDS_LOST_COUNT  => l("Patron has reached the maximum number of lost items") to that tt2 file? Or is it more complicated than that?
16:42 phasefx kmlussier: that should do it
16:43 phasefx kmlussier: with a comma between entries
16:43 kmlussier Wow! That's something even I could handle. But it strays from the original question. :)
16:43 phasefx kmlussier: and, of course, you should edit a copy of that file in a custom template folder
16:43 mmorgan I would love to change the "Patron has..." parts of those messages.
16:44 mmorgan Seems like an easily maintainable customization that would mean a big improvement in placing holds.
16:45 kmlussier Well, I was thinking some standard, stock penalties could be added there and contributed to core. It seems like something others might benefit from.
16:45 mmorgan Yes, that too!
16:46 kmlussier phasefx: I think it makes sense for the EVENT_MSG_MAP failures to come first.
16:46 kmlussier Well, currently, I guess it would be failure, but maybe we can add some more to make it a little more useful.
16:47 eeevil kmlussier / mmorgan: (almost got to send this before the internet outage at the office...) this is all related to what I was mentioning yesterday, about a bigger project to rework all the circ and hold failure reporting so that all layers of the stack could react appropriately (and it would be easier to, say, add new failure reasons, a la Bmagic's standing penalty thing from earlier)
16:48 eeevil there's no simple change that will please all in every situation, AFAICT ... with the current mapping of events
16:49 kmlussier eeevil: Yes, but I'm guessing that's a much larger project. I would like to see it, but maybe this could improve things a little bit in the meantime.
16:50 eeevil kmlussier: likely, sure. maybe moving things between maps would be enough for the short term (though, I'm not sure there wouldn't be other implications)
16:56 kmlussier @hate scheduling meetings
16:56 pinesol_green kmlussier: The operation succeeded.  kmlussier hates scheduling meetings.
16:56 mmorgan @dessert kmlussier
16:57 * pinesol_green grabs some banana split for kmlussier
16:58 * mmorgan has acquired some knowlege today!
16:58 mmorgan kmlussier++ phasefx++
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17:24 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
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20:11 hbrennan Arg. Who knows what permission is needed to edit Library Settings? I can't find it...
20:19 hbrennan I feel like I'm close, but this is perplexing ....
20:19 hbrennan UPDATE_ORG_SETTING.  Allow a user to update an organization unit setting
20:19 hbrennan vs
20:19 hbrennan UPDATE_ORG_UNIT.  Allow a user to change the settings for an organization unit
20:20 hbrennan Settings for an org unit vs. org unit setting....
20:28 eeevil hbrennan: you want the former. the latter is for changing the name, can_have_users, etc
20:29 * eeevil disappears in a puff of smoke
20:29 hbrennan Gracias, eeevil.
20:29 hbrennan :)
20:29 hbrennan eeevil++ # for acting like a superhero
21:39 jeff reading the "acting like a superhero" comment first, I then read hbrennan's "Who knows what" line a la "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows..."
21:39 hbrennan Haha
21:39 hbrennan I often read IRC backwards and find fun things
21:40 jeff I still hear people's voices in my head as I read their words in IRC. It's stronger just after seeing people in person or talking to them on the phone, but is seeming to become a permanent thing.
21:41 hbrennan I love conferences for that reason
21:41 hbrennan So much easier to keep track of who's who
21:42 hbrennan Though there are a few people who are so much more outgoing on here, you'd never put their real self with their IRC personality
21:44 * jeff nods
21:44 jeff and the reverse -- many people at the conference never make an appearance on irc, or rarely say anything if/when they do.
21:45 jeff nothing wrong in either case, of course.
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21:51 jeff dbwells++ pullrequests against iNCIPit
21:53 hbrennan oh, that reminds me dbwells++ for coming up with not one but TWO solutions on how to get around my serials bug
21:56 hbrennan Welp, my arm is burning hot from the sun so it must be 6!
21:56 hbrennan Until tomorrow everyone
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