| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:12 |
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| 01:14 |
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ATS_JC joined #evergreen |
| 01:14 |
ATS_JC |
Hi! I just encountered a problem while logging in the admin account |
| 01:15 |
ATS_JC |
Please open a helpdesk ticket and include the following text: Mon May 05 2014 13:12:48 GMT+0800 (Malay Peninsula Standard Time) Error during login sequence. The client will logout after this dialog. { "fileName":"oils://remote/xul/rel_2_5_4/server/OpenILS/data.js", "lineNumber":591 } |
| 01:15 |
ATS_JC |
thanks for the help |
| 01:15 |
ATS_JC |
:) |
| 07:38 |
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| 07:48 |
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| 08:19 |
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| 09:33 |
kmlussier |
@coffee |
| 09:33 |
* pinesol_green |
brews and pours a cup of Nectar, and sends it sliding down the bar to kmlussier |
| 10:23 |
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| 10:54 |
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| 11:12 |
csharp |
lastlog Dyrcona |
| 11:12 |
csharp |
@seen Dyrcona |
| 11:12 |
pinesol_green |
csharp: Dyrcona was last seen in #evergreen 1 week, 3 days, 19 hours, 56 minutes, and 1 second ago: * Dyrcona assumes a list/book bag. |
| 11:13 |
kmlussier |
csharp: Dyrcona has been on vacation. |
| 11:13 |
csharp |
kmlussier: cool - just hadn't seen him in here for a while ;-) |
| 11:33 |
jeff |
vacations++ |
| 11:35 |
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| 11:51 |
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| 11:55 |
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| 12:01 |
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| 12:02 |
krvmga |
i'd say one of the biggest problems that i face with libraries is related to library staff trying to use the public catalog as if it's a staff client and vice versa. getting the staff to understand the difference and the limitations of each is a strong challenge for me. |
| 12:03 |
krvmga |
i'd be interested to hear how you all have faced this. |
| 12:03 |
krvmga |
especially if you've been successful at it :) |
| 12:04 |
csharp |
krvmga: can you elaborate? how are staff using the public OPAC as if it's the staff client and vice versa? |
| 12:05 |
krvmga |
using the public catalog as a staff tool: trying to get inventory counts through OPAC searching. |
| 12:05 |
csharp |
yowza |
| 12:06 |
krvmga |
using the staff client as public catalog: trying to place holds for patrons on materials that aren't available to them and that wouldn't have shown up in a public opac search but do show up in a staff client search |
| 12:06 |
krvmga |
then thinking the "catalog" is broken |
| 12:06 |
tsbere |
krvmga: I don't think I have ever run into that issue....though "the staff client opac somehow forgot it was in the staff client and reverted to public mode" comes up every so often. >_> |
| 12:08 |
krvmga |
library staff often don't seem to grok that the opac is the catalog and "Search Catalog" in the staff client is an inventory search rather than a catalog search. |
| 12:09 |
krvmga |
the opac shows what's available to patrons (in other words, what's in the "catalog"); the staff client shows what records are in the general inventory |
| 12:10 |
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| 12:10 |
tsbere |
krvmga: That line gets blurred a lot. :P Though a "restrict to public" mode would be nice at times in the staff client. (Note: There are ways to get the public opac to act more like the staff one, but not the other way around) |
| 12:11 |
krvmga |
tsbere: "restrict to public" would be nice sometimes. +1 |
| 12:12 |
csharp |
"restrict to trained staff" might be better :-) |
| 12:13 |
csharp |
</unnecessary_snark> |
| 12:13 |
* krvmga |
thinks that "restrict to trained staff" might leave almost no one at the library able to use it. |
| 12:14 |
csharp |
krvmga: in my experience, that kind of thing is only helped by training and documentation |
| 12:14 |
csharp |
and site visits where staff can show you what they're doing and where you can educate them on how it's supposed to work |
| 12:14 |
kmlussier |
krvmga: I wouldn't consider a search in the staff client an inventory search either. |
| 12:15 |
kmlussier |
Reports is the most accurate way to do an inventory. |
| 12:15 |
krvmga |
kmlussier: does the staff client not search the entire bib record inventory? |
| 12:15 |
kmlussier |
My concern is that staff would then look at the count on the search results screen and consider it a real count of what they have that matches that search. |
| 12:16 |
kmlussier |
That count won't be accurate once the results hit a certain threshold. |
| 12:16 |
krvmga |
kmlussier: yes, i've already seen this numerous times. |
| 12:19 |
csharp |
reports are really the only way to do any sort of inventory process (though there are some features librarians expect in an "inventory module" that EG doesn't have) |
| 12:20 |
krvmga |
csharp: yes, this is what i tell them. |
| 12:21 |
csharp |
krvmga: for that issue, you might develop a couple of reliable inventory-related reports templates and "push" them out to the concerned staff |
| 12:21 |
csharp |
"here's your monthly inventory report - go at it" |
| 12:22 |
krvmga |
csharp: you're right and that's a good suggestion. we have produced quite a few report templates for the libraries to use. |
| 12:25 |
csharp |
krvmga: I'm pretty sure one of my colleagues here documented an inventory process in Evergreen as-is, but I'm having trouble locating it |
| 12:27 |
krvmga |
csharp++ |
| 12:28 |
krvmga |
does anyone know/remember the rationale for displaying the contents of the 856 field in the opac but not in the staff client search? (Online Access) |
| 12:30 |
krvmga |
nevermind... |
| 12:32 |
krvmga |
totally off topic: i saw capt. america winter soldier yesterday and enjoyed it |
| 12:37 |
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| 12:38 |
csharp |
krvmga++ |
| 12:41 |
csharp |
krvmga: if I get a hold of that inventory doc, I'll send it along |
| 12:43 |
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| 12:48 |
jl- |
berick: your holdings script worked quite nicely |
| 12:48 |
jl- |
thanks again |
| 12:58 |
berick |
jl-: great, glad to hear it |
| 13:10 |
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| 13:17 |
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| 13:18 |
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| 13:22 |
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| 13:32 |
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| 13:32 |
csharp |
@karma reports |
| 13:32 |
pinesol_green |
csharp: Karma for "reports" has been increased 2 times and decreased 9 times for a total karma of -7. |
| 13:53 |
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| 14:21 |
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| 15:06 |
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| 15:28 |
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| 15:36 |
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| 15:43 |
kmlussier |
So quiet in here today. |
| 15:45 |
hbrennan |
Yessum |
| 15:45 |
hbrennan |
Feels like a Friday afternoon! |
| 15:45 |
bshum |
It does feel like a Friday. |
| 15:45 |
kmlussier |
@dessert add banana split |
| 15:45 |
pinesol_green |
kmlussier: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). |
| 15:45 |
kmlussier |
Bah! |
| 15:46 |
kmlussier |
@dessert add banana split |
| 15:46 |
pinesol_green |
kmlussier: The operation succeeded. Dessert #9 added. |
| 15:46 |
hbrennan |
I'm making my first rhubarb pie of the year today |
| 15:46 |
hbrennan |
Can you add that? |
| 15:46 |
hbrennan |
I know we're already pie saturated though |
| 15:47 |
kmlussier |
hbrennan: We had strawberry rhubarb pie with the old dessert plugin, but I don't think it's been added since then. |
| 15:47 |
bshum |
@dessert add Krispy Kreme Donuts |
| 15:47 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: The operation succeeded. Dessert #10 added. |
| 15:47 |
kmlussier |
hbrennan: We actually don't have as many pies as we used to. Most of the old desserts were wiped out when bshum went all fancy on us and created a dessert database. |
| 15:47 |
hbrennan |
I wish my strawberries were producing already! |
| 15:48 |
kmlussier |
I tried to make my own rhubarb pie once. It was a disaster. |
| 15:48 |
bshum |
@dessert search pie |
| 15:48 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: 1 found: #4: "Lemon Chess Pie" |
| 15:48 |
bshum |
We have exactly one pie right now. |
| 15:48 |
bshum |
So, more the merrier. |
| 15:48 |
hbrennan |
What the heck is a Lemon Chess? |
| 15:48 |
kmlussier |
That's a shame. |
| 15:48 |
kmlussier |
Ask csharp |
| 15:48 |
hbrennan |
ah, some Southern thing, eh? |
| 15:49 |
bshum |
Hehe |
| 15:50 |
kmlussier |
@dessert |
| 15:50 |
* pinesol_green |
grabs some banana split for kmlussier |
| 15:50 |
hbrennan |
@dessert add rhubarb pie |
| 15:50 |
pinesol_green |
hbrennan: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). |
| 15:50 |
hbrennan |
ah boo |
| 15:51 |
bshum |
hbrennan: You can message pinesol_green directly and register yourself and identify so that pinesol_green learns who you are. |
| 15:52 |
bshum |
@register |
| 15:52 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: Error: That operation cannot be done in a channel. |
| 15:52 |
bshum |
See, it's smart ;) |
| 15:52 |
hbrennan |
Oh that register |
| 15:52 |
hbrennan |
gotcha |
| 15:52 |
hbrennan |
Let's see if I can do that |
| 15:53 |
kmlussier |
@dessert add coffee frappes |
| 15:53 |
pinesol_green |
kmlussier: The operation succeeded. Dessert #11 added. |
| 15:54 |
hbrennan |
@dessert add wild alaskan rhubarb pie |
| 15:54 |
pinesol_green |
hbrennan: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). |
| 15:54 |
hbrennan |
haha |
| 15:55 |
hbrennan |
dang it |
| 15:55 |
bshum |
@dessert add Vanilla Frosted Donuts with Sprinkles |
| 15:55 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: The operation succeeded. Dessert #12 added. |
| 15:56 |
hbrennan |
@dessert wild Alaskan rhubarb pie |
| 15:56 |
* pinesol_green |
grabs some Lemon Chess Pie for wild Alaskan rhubarb pie |
| 15:56 |
hbrennan |
woops |
| 15:56 |
hbrennan |
@dessert add wild Alaskan rhubarb pie |
| 15:56 |
pinesol_green |
hbrennan: The operation succeeded. Dessert #13 added. |
| 15:56 |
kmlussier |
hbrennan: After you registered, did you identify with pinesol_green? |
| 15:56 |
bshum |
That sounds like it might be fun. |
| 15:56 |
bshum |
hbrennan++ |
| 15:56 |
hbrennan |
Success! |
| 15:56 |
kmlussier |
hbrennan++ |
| 15:56 |
mmorgan |
Wow, a Lemon Chess Wild Alaskan Rhubarb pie! |
| 15:57 |
hbrennan |
I hate that all my tries are publicly logged, but hey I did it |
| 15:57 |
hbrennan |
Took enough effort that I needed to personalize my pie |
| 15:57 |
kmlussier |
hbrennan: No worries! I'm pretty sure the same thing happened to me the first time. |
| 15:57 |
kmlussier |
And I still always forget to identify. |
| 15:57 |
hbrennan |
Well the register instructions have () around them, but that doesn't work |
| 15:57 |
bshum |
hbrennan: The secret trick is messaging the bot privately with commands to learn the best one. Sometimes I do that when I want to know. |
| 15:57 |
hbrennan |
So it's trying to trick me |
| 15:57 |
hbrennan |
That's a great idea |
| 15:58 |
kmlussier |
Probably something we should add to one of those IRC help pages. |
| 15:58 |
bshum |
@whoami is a good one before you start engaging with the bot too. Just to see if it knows you. |
| 15:58 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: (whoami takes no arguments) -- Returns the name of the user calling the command. |
| 15:58 |
bshum |
Yes, yes, we know :) |
| 15:58 |
kmlussier |
@whoami |
| 15:58 |
pinesol_green |
kmlussier: kmlussier |
| 15:58 |
kmlussier |
Well, that's helpful |
| 16:02 |
* berick |
can't tell if kmlussier is being sarcastic |
| 16:03 |
kmlussier |
berick: Just a little sarcastic. |
| 16:04 |
jeff |
if you aren't logged in, @whoami will indicate that. |
| 16:04 |
kmlussier |
But I'm wondering if I was supposed to do something fancier the first time I registered. Like give the bot my real name. |
| 16:04 |
jeff |
@help whoami |
| 16:04 |
pinesol_green |
jeff: (whoami takes no arguments) -- Returns the name of the user calling the command. |
| 16:04 |
berick |
jeff: i know, it just looks funny.. "whoami? You are you!" |
| 16:04 |
jeff |
or, if not registered AND currently identified to the bot... |
| 16:05 |
Guest86793 |
@whoami |
| 16:05 |
pinesol_green |
Guest86793: I don't recognize you. |
| 16:05 |
bshum |
@later tell gsams Looking back at what you asked over the weekend, I think maybe the reason we haven't noticed any issues with the back button and call number SMS texting retaining the entries is because we set the library setting requiring users to log in to send texts. |
| 16:05 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: The operation succeeded. |
| 16:05 |
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| 16:05 |
kmlussier |
bshum: We don't have that requirement. So I was able to confirm his bug. |
| 16:06 |
bshum |
kmlussier: To me, I think we enabled requiring it because we didn't want to deal with people using our system to send unnecessary texts to any number they wanted to. |
| 16:06 |
bshum |
But yeah |
| 16:07 |
bshum |
That did lead to different behaviors. Looking at the original no-cache bug, it seems to only apply to when you're logged in. Not just looking at various pages. |
| 16:07 |
kmlussier |
bshum: Sure. I understand why some sites like to require authentication, but we have some consortia that prefer not to make authentication a requirement. |
| 16:08 |
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| 16:12 |
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| 16:17 |
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collum joined #evergreen |
| 16:20 |
mmorgan |
Does anyone give library staff members permission to delete non-ideal status items? |
| 16:21 |
hbrennan |
I have that permission |
| 16:23 |
mmorgan |
hbrennan: Have you ever run into any problems when something in a restricted status was deleted? |
| 16:23 |
hbrennan |
Nope, but we've only been with EG for a year |
| 16:23 |
hbrennan |
I've used it a handful of times with items in Lost status |
| 16:24 |
hbrennan |
but they were truly lost, or missing |
| 16:25 |
mmorgan |
We've had a few instances when libraries wanted to delete long in transit items, but that's restricted. |
| 16:25 |
mmorgan |
Seems reasonable that they should be able to do that. They could abort first, I suppose. |
| 16:26 |
hbrennan |
Hmm. We're a solo library, so I have no opinions on in transit |
| 16:26 |
hbrennan |
I suppose if that person was in charge of tracking down long overdue transit items, and they knew there was no hope of it returning, it would make sense to give that permission |
| 16:27 |
mmorgan |
Ah. Right. The other situation is when something is long overdue, and is deleted. Then it wanders back into the library and can't be checked in. |
| 16:27 |
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| 16:27 |
hbrennan |
We have one staff person at our library for Lost items |
| 16:27 |
hbrennan |
if anything comes back with that status, the item goes to her |
| 16:28 |
hbrennan |
so she can keep track of what's returned, paid for, who to refund (if they bring it back in a reasonable amount of time) |
| 16:28 |
hbrennan |
It's very helpful that way |
| 16:28 |
hbrennan |
She can also use her experience to forgive certain cases and break the rules a bit |
| 16:29 |
jihpringle |
our libraries have run into that problem on occasion (deleted items being returned) once we track down in the database who the item was originally checked out to the item can be checked in through the patron's account |
| 16:30 |
bshum |
We don't allow anyone that permission to delete bad copy status items. Primarily to avoid folks deleting lost/missing stuff |
| 16:30 |
bshum |
Especially lost. While the items are still checked out. |
| 16:31 |
bshum |
Because someone was a bit too eager... |
| 16:31 |
RoganH |
bshum: Another dark tale from granting permissions. :) |
| 16:31 |
mmorgan |
bshum: so do the checked out items just stay in the database? |
| 16:31 |
hbrennan |
bshum: So you never deleted lost status items? |
| 16:33 |
Dyrcona |
mmorgan: We, MVLC, don't permit the deletion of "bad" status items, either. |
| 16:33 |
bshum |
mmorgan: hbrennan: Yes, until they check in the items and then delete them. |
| 16:34 |
Dyrcona |
hbrennan: It causes a lot of staff confusion in a consortium, particularly when libraries re-use the barcodes of deleted copies. |
| 16:34 |
hbrennan |
bshum: Check it in, even though it's not really in? |
| 16:34 |
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tspindler left #evergreen |
| 16:34 |
Dyrcona |
hbrennan: Deleted things are not really deleted. |
| 16:34 |
hbrennan |
Dyrcona: Oh, that makes sense. We never reuse barcodes... that would make things very confusing |
| 16:34 |
bshum |
hbrennan: Yeah, it's safer that way. Especially like what Dyrcona says. |
| 16:35 |
hbrennan |
Dyrcona: That's the mantra I've learned this year! |
| 16:35 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 16:35 |
hbrennan |
That's why I thought it would be better to keep the status it is truly in |
| 16:35 |
hbrennan |
So if someone was to look back, they'd see it as lost rather than checked in |
| 16:36 |
Dyrcona |
The re-used barcode scenario leads to questions about why do two patrons have the same barcode/copy checked out? |
| 16:36 |
Dyrcona |
Barcodes are only unique for copies that are not flagged deleted. |
| 16:36 |
hbrennan |
Evergreen lets that happen? |
| 16:36 |
hbrennan |
Ohhh |
| 16:38 |
Dyrcona |
So, because of that we added the code to make it so things in certain statuses could not be deleted. |
| 16:39 |
Dyrcona |
You can allow them to be deleted if that's your policy, but that way lies madness in a consortium. |
| 16:39 |
hbrennan |
So I'm not ruining everything by deleting things in these statues, really? |
| 16:39 |
hbrennan |
There is no policy :) |
| 16:39 |
mmorgan |
Oftentime staff don't realize they are "re-using" a barcode, because they can't see that it's been flagged deleted. They can't retrieve it by barcode, so they add it. |
| 16:40 |
Dyrcona |
hbrennan: The copies are still in the database so the integrity of the universe is not affected. |
| 16:40 |
hbrennan |
Dyrcona: Oh good. Thanks. :) |
| 16:40 |
bshum |
I think the problem for us was people deleting a lost copy while it was still out and on a patron's record. |
| 16:41 |
Dyrcona |
The hard part is getting staff to understand that "deleted" does not mean deleted in the case of copies, call number, bibs, and usually patrons. |
| 16:41 |
bshum |
Then when the item came back it wouldn't go off the record. |
| 16:41 |
bshum |
It would just trigger as barcode mis-scans |
| 16:42 |
bshum |
Or they would reuse the barcode and not know which copy was which. |
| 16:42 |
Dyrcona |
Yep, silly software....Can't keep up with wily humans. |
| 16:43 |
mmorgan |
So if a patron still has something checked out, or has lost it and not paid for it, it stays in the database, even if it was due several years ago? |
| 16:43 |
bshum |
It'll stay there until you do something about it. |
| 16:43 |
Dyrcona |
mmorgan: Any deleted copy, regardless of status, stays in the database, no matter how long ago it was deleted. |
| 16:43 |
|
RoganH left #evergreen |
| 16:44 |
bshum |
Or you ignore it with the scope of your reports. |
| 16:44 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona: By "stay there", I mean be visible in the staff client. I know they're there forever ;-) |
| 16:44 |
Dyrcona |
Like I said earlier, "Deleted things are not really deleted." |
| 16:45 |
Dyrcona |
Well, they are visible in the staff client, if you know how to search. |
| 16:45 |
Dyrcona |
The barcodes won't come up if you scan them, but you can still find the copies. |
| 16:45 |
mmorgan |
Dyrcona: How can you find them? |
| 16:46 |
* tsbere |
points out that deleted bibs being searchable requires local config changes and deleted copies can end up with no staff client accessible ways of getting at them if there are no bills related to them |
| 16:46 |
|
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| 16:46 |
Dyrcona |
Well, what tsbere said. I always forget it requires configuration. |
| 16:46 |
Dyrcona |
Guess 'cause we have it turned on. |
| 16:47 |
mmorgan |
So if you can't see deleted bibs, then you can't find the deleted items? |
| 16:48 |
Dyrcona |
Well, I am mistaken about the deleted copies. As tsbere hints, pretty much only those with bills are visible. |
| 16:48 |
Dyrcona |
Or those that are checked out, etc. |
| 16:48 |
tsbere |
And any that were still in copy buckets when they were deleted, I think |
| 16:48 |
mmorgan |
OK, thought I had missed something (wished I had missed something) |
| 16:49 |
Dyrcona |
Deleted copies were more fun on Horizon.... |
| 16:49 |
Dyrcona |
Certain statuses would cause the program that was run to delete them to crash. |
| 16:49 |
mmorgan |
So if all I have is a book in my hand with a barcode, and it's been deleted, there isn't any way I can find that out in the client. True? |
| 16:49 |
Dyrcona |
Copies could be deleted when lost or whatever and leave dangling bills on a patron's account. |
| 16:49 |
hbrennan |
In Sirsi it was terrible.. I was the "deleter" and it wouldn't let you delete anything with fines! |
| 16:49 |
Dyrcona |
"You owe us $20." |
| 16:50 |
Dyrcona |
"What for?" |
| 16:50 |
Dyrcona |
"Don't know, but it says you owe us $20." |
| 16:50 |
tsbere |
mmorgan: You are correct. for added fun, there can be 0 or more deleted copies with that barcode. :P |
| 16:50 |
Dyrcona |
hbrennan: Well, it shouldn't let you delete anything with fines, unless the fines are also deleted. |
| 16:52 |
mmorgan |
tsbere: Ok, I keep hoping there's something I'm missing, but seems not. |
| 16:53 |
mmorgan |
at least in regards to this :) |
| 16:53 |
tsbere |
mmorgan: Why do you want to find deleted copies again? They were deleted, hopefully with good reason. :P |
| 16:55 |
mmorgan |
An example - we'd rather not have way overdue items showing up in all our searches, attracting holds, etc. |
| 16:55 |
hbrennan |
You can make Long Overdue not visible, right? |
| 16:55 |
Dyrcona |
Cool! We have 33 copies with the barcode "1234" |
| 16:55 |
tsbere |
mmorgan: None of that explains finding deleted items. At best that is explaining why you are deleting them. |
| 16:55 |
mmorgan |
hbrennan: Yes, but I think they would still be visible for staff, right? |
| 16:56 |
hbrennan |
mmorgan: Ah, yes |
| 16:56 |
mmorgan |
tsbere: the finding part comes when the long overdue deleted item is returned and the library staff member only has the book with its barcode to go on. |
| 16:57 |
tsbere |
mmorgan: So you want your long overdue items to no longer exist, but you want to find them later. I think you need to decide which it is. ;) |
| 16:57 |
hbrennan |
haha |
| 16:59 |
mmorgan |
tsbere: Unfortunately, It's not my decision :-( |
| 17:00 |
tsbere |
mmorgan: Well, from a normal staff point of view either they exist and can be found by barcode, or they don't exist and can't. If they exist they can come up in search results, but holds can be negated by making them longoverdue or lost and making those statuses not holdable. |
| 17:00 |
mmorgan |
Anyway - so much for a quiet afternoon in the channel! Thanks, all for the input :) |
| 17:01 |
hbrennan |
We can go back to adding desserts whenever you're done working |
| 17:01 |
hbrennan |
:) |
| 17:01 |
mmorgan |
Yes, desserts please! |
| 17:06 |
hbrennan |
@dessert mmorgan |
| 17:06 |
* pinesol_green |
grabs some Vanilla Frosted Donuts with Sprinkles for mmorgan |
| 17:06 |
hbrennan |
Ha, that was my first gifting |
| 17:07 |
mmorgan |
Perfect! |
| 17:14 |
pinesol_green |
Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html> |
| 17:25 |
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| 20:26 |
csharp |
@dessert add Coconut Cream Cake |
| 20:26 |
pinesol_green |
csharp: The operation succeeded. Dessert #14 added. |
| 22:29 |
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