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IRC log for #evergreen, 2014-05-02

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
04:36 serflog joined #evergreen
04:36 Topic for #evergreen is now Welcome to the #evergreen library system channel! | We are publicly logged. | Large pastes at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org
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06:02 csharp @dessert add "Lemon Chess Pie"
06:02 pinesol_green csharp: The operation succeeded.  Dessert #4 added.
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08:28 kmlussier Looks like we need to add some more desserts to the database.
08:32 kmlussier @dessert add mllewellyn's cupcakes
08:32 pinesol_green kmlussier: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
08:36 kmlussier @dessert add mllewellyn's cupcakes
08:36 pinesol_green kmlussier: The operation succeeded.  Dessert #5 added.
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08:45 kmlussier @dessert 4
08:45 * pinesol_green grabs some Lemon Chess Pie for kmlussier
08:46 kmlussier @dessert 5
08:46 * pinesol_green grabs some mllewellyn's cupcakes for kmlussier
08:46 kmlussier hmm
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08:52 bshum @dessert 5 kmlussier
08:52 * pinesol_green grabs some of mllewellyn's Cupcakes for kmlussier
08:52 kmlussier bshum++
08:55 jbfink joined #evergreen
08:56 * bshum is tackling tspindler's question about LP bugs and milestones on the dev list.
08:58 kmlussier @dessert add Supreme Brownie Sundae
08:58 pinesol_green kmlussier: The operation succeeded.  Dessert #6 added.
08:58 kmlussier @dessert add Apple Crisp
08:58 pinesol_green kmlussier: The operation succeeded.  Dessert #7 added.
08:58 kmlussier I added that last dessert for bshum because I know how much he loves apple desserts. ;)
08:59 kmlussier @dessert add Cookies and Cream ice cream
08:59 pinesol_green kmlussier: The operation succeeded.  Dessert #8 added.
09:07 tspindler bshum: thanks, I have a vague understanding about what they might mean but I don't want to assume, you know what they say about assuming
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09:10 bshum tspindler: I just sent the reply, I think I'll take some of what I said and add it to the bug wrangler wiki page for the milestone section of the page.
09:11 bshum tspindler: Thanks for asking the question, it's something I've been a bit delinquent in getting fully explained in my past roles.
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09:13 bshum tspindler: I just realized I didn't say anything specific about the one bug you linked to
09:14 bshum I note in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ever​green/+bug/1086550/comments/13 that I guess I removed the pullrequest tag off the bug because there were conflicting approaches being suggested and we hadn't reached a final conclusion over what code we were testing/reviewing.
09:14 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1086550 in Evergreen "TPAC: Not clear to patron how to deselect a facet" (affected: 5, heat: 24) [Wishlist,Confirmed]
09:14 bshum Without an active pullrequest and the unfinished discussion, I guess this one slipped through the cracks during development cycles for 2.5, etc.
09:17 bshum My recommendation is to take back the conversation and get a new pullrequest on the bug with the code that should be reviewed.
09:18 bshum And target it for 2.next with the plan to complete it during 2.7's development cycle.
09:19 bshum It's good to champion for the bugs we care about.  And anyone can do that, developers, contributors, users alike.
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09:21 bshum http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/d​oku.php?id=dev:bug_wrangler:faq
09:21 bshum Does this count as me completing my long standing task of explaining LP bugs on the list?  :D
09:21 tspindler bshum:  i am going to talk to dpearl about this, I think he was satisified with Mark Cooper's approach even though he had a separate approach.  I appreciate also the need to champion bugs.  kmlussier has pointed this out to me in different terms
09:22 bshum tspindler++ # sounds like a plan, I look forward to looking at this one anew.
09:23 kmlussier One nitpicky thing I just noticed on http://wiki.evergreen-ils.org/d​oku.php?id=dev:bug_wrangler:faq. For "Confirmed" status, it says it should be assigned an importance at the time of confirming.
09:23 kmlussier However, any Launchpad user has the ability to confirm a bug. But you need to be a bug wrangler to assign an importance.
09:24 bshum Fwiw, I'm fairly sure I do often assign an importance.
09:24 bshum Hmm
09:24 kmlussier Sure, I do now too. But before you gave me powers, I had to confirm without assigning importance.
09:25 bshum I have mixed feelings then.  I think the language as written is appropriate for bug wranglers (i.e. members of the bug team)
09:25 bshum But if you think that anyone may be expected to mark a bug as "confirmed" status, that's something we can discuss.
09:25 kmlussier I agree. But I also think it's helpful when non-bug wranglers can confirm a bug because it takes time to confirm them.
09:26 bshum Nominally, I would also take a "me too" in the comments as affirming the bug's nature.
09:26 bshum And leave the status changes and importance settings to the bug wrangler team members.
09:27 bshum That said, historically, our core group of bug wranglers have been a bit lax in this department.  :(
09:28 dbs bshum: suggestion for the "deleted record" that might make everyone happy - just add an extra @class value that sites that don't want greyed-out bibs can just override in their CSS with background-color: inherit; or whatever?
09:29 kmlussier Since LP already allows any LP user to mark it as confirmed, I expect some people will do it whether it's part of our best practices or not. And I don't think that's a bad thing. We just need to be aware that there may be a valid reason why an importance isn't set when somebody marks a bug as confirmed.
09:29 tspindler If i can chime in, i thinnk keeping the status changes to the bug wrangler team is important, i think it could really muddy things if all users could do this.  A regular user can argue in a comment section for its importance or indicate it was tested.
09:29 kmlussier +1 to dbs' suggestion.
09:29 kmlussier tspindler: I'm not advocating that all users set the importance level. But I do think it's a good thing that they can mark it as confirmed.
09:29 bshum dbs: That's a fair suggestion.  I'm not even sure how much my users will even notice or complain about its return.  I was just being grumpy yesterday :\
09:30 dbs bshum: I understand grumpy
09:30 * kmlussier can never tell when bshum is grumpy.
09:31 bshum kmlussier: Perhaps we should review the FAQ to note that bug wrangler team members should set an importance for confirmed bugs if unset.
09:31 bshum *revise
09:31 kmlussier bshum comes across as cheerful even when he's grumpy.
09:31 tspindler kmlussier: yes I think that makes sense, i have even mixed feelings about allowing that permission
09:31 kmlussier tspindler: It's already allowed.
09:31 tspindler kmlussier: understood
09:32 tspindler kmlussier: I guess there has been no abuse from any users for confirming bugs (when they have not done the work) so I assume it has never been a problem and no need to make it one
09:33 bshum Hard enough getting anyone to use LP in the first place :)
09:33 bshum I encourage them to help pitch in.
09:33 tspindler i guess it would be great then if it were a problem, more people would be contributing
09:33 kmlussier bshum: I think confirming bugs is a great way to pitch in. But I've never marked anything as confirmed based on their bug comments, so maybe I'll start doing that.
09:34 bshum kmlussier: Generally speaking, I only mark bugs as confirmed when I personally have confirmed them as well :)
09:34 bshum But that's just cause my name is attached then to the bug status change email.
09:35 bshum Otherwise, I'd just use the Triaged status to move it out of "new" status.  But these days I've been doing that less since we're trying to avoid bug churn.
09:35 bshum And also I prefer finding out whether it's really a problem.
09:35 eeevil bshum / tspindler: I just commented on https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1086550 with a (hopefully) simpler option
09:35 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1086550 in Evergreen "TPAC: Not clear to patron how to deselect a facet" (affected: 5, heat: 24) [Wishlist,Confirmed]
09:36 bshum kmlussier: "Bug wrangler team members should assign an importance, if not already set."
09:36 bshum For revised language on the FAQ
09:37 kmlussier bshum: +1
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09:41 ericar bshum: I am comfortable, as a non wrangler, confirming bug and agree that the importance should be set by wranglers. And I'd be disappointed if my ability to confirm bugs was disabled.
09:42 kmlussier ericar++
09:42 bshum ericar++
09:42 bshum If you ever feel like getting a promotion, the wrangler team is always recruiting :)
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09:51 bshum Oh come on..... IE--
09:58 * dbs wonders about the feasibility of turning the catalog into a card-based UI so that in the staff client you click on the top right corner of a record and it flips around to show the cataloging/circ actions on the back...
09:59 * dbs has obviously been looking at G+ far too much.
09:59 bshum Hehe, that'd be kind of fun
10:00 dbs Might be a way of containing all the real estate needed for the vast set of actions we expose in the staff client
10:01 jeff dbs: very trello! (though that's backbone and not angular!)
10:01 jeff (which matters little)
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10:47 RoganH I'm having one of those days where I'm trying to remember if something I remember is real or something my brain made up.
10:47 jeff been there.
10:47 jeff "did i fix that bug, or did i dream i fixed that bug?"
10:48 jeff s/fixed that bug/wrote that code/ etc
10:49 csharp @who dreams about fixing Evergreen bugs?
10:49 pinesol_green sseng dreams about fixing Evergreen bugs.
10:52 jeff a pox on "delimited" files that aren't.
10:54 csharp RoganH++ # wrangling the Hack-A-Way once again ;-)
10:57 RoganH Something I didn't mention in the email is that if a / group of organizations wanted to just sponsor it I'd take care of arrangements and save them them the hassle.
10:58 RoganH them = them - them  (apologies for multiplying thems)
11:00 kmlussier @praise RoganH
11:00 * pinesol_green RoganH can run a report without assistance
11:01 kmlussier How many praises do we have?
11:05 bshum @praise search
11:05 pinesol_green bshum: 4 found: #1: "$who is the very model of a modern major hacker", #2: "$who is kind and patient to newbies", #3: "$who can run a report without assistance", and #4: "the upgrade came off brilliantly, and it's all..."
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11:05 bshum Not that many I guess.
11:06 pinesol_green [opensrf|Bill Erickson] LP#1306044 Debian Jessie Makefile.install target - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p​=OpenSRF.git;a=commit;h=a53e387>
11:06 pinesol_green [opensrf|Bill Erickson] LP#1306044 Removing deprecated jabber register script - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p​=OpenSRF.git;a=commit;h=0d2c6d7>
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11:15 dbs @praise add $who is one of the few who deserve to be praised
11:15 pinesol_green dbs: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
11:16 dbs fine
11:16 dbs joined #evergreen
11:16 dbs @praise add $who is one of the few who deserve to be praised
11:16 pinesol_green dbs: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
11:22 kmlussier dbs: Shouln't it be "deserves"?
11:23 dbs kmlussier: mebbe. dang antecedents or whatever
11:23 kmlussier @praise add $who is one of the few who deserves to be praised
11:23 pinesol_green kmlussier: The operation succeeded.  Praise #5 added.
11:24 dbs Of course out of context that's going to seem weird, because _many_ people deserve praise in this community
11:25 dbs it was mostly about how few @praises we had.
11:26 kmlussier Funny. @dessert already has more responses and it's less than 24 hours old.
11:26 kmlussier It's easier to think up tasty desserts than to think of a good way to praise people.
11:27 mmorgan perhaps some would prefer dessert over praise ;-)
11:28 kmlussier mmorgan: I generally prefer dessert over most things.
11:28 mmorgan me too!
11:29 dbs @praise [dessert]
11:29 * pinesol_green grabs some of mllewellyn's Cupcakes is the very model of a modern major hacker for dbs
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11:29 kmlussier Well, that was interesting.
11:31 dreuther joined #evergreen
11:32 bshum Heh
11:34 bshum ericar++ # joining our intrepid bug wrangler force
11:34 bshum Welcome to the team!  :)
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11:44 bshum gmcharlt: berick: What version of automake does Jessie use at the moment?  Wondering if you guys encountered or dealt with similar issues like csharp and I noted in https://bugs.launchpad.net/opensrf/+bug/1272937
11:44 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1272937 in OpenSRF "OpenSRF configure.am showing deprecation warnings with autoreconf -i step" (affected: 2, heat: 10) [Undecided,New]
11:45 gmcharlt bshum: yep, I've seen that
11:45 gmcharlt doesn't prevent installation, although obviously it's annoying and should be cleaned up
11:45 kmlussier ericar++ indeed
11:49 bshum gmcharlt: Yeah that's what I found as well.  I was just checking.
11:49 bshum gmcharlt: Thanks.
11:50 bshum The error at line 30 is actually simple to repair on face value.  It's the INCLUDES vs. AM_CPPFLAGS part that looks like it'll be slightly more complex.
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11:58 krvmga i think i don't understand how the library list in Show More Details works. take a look at this URL http://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/results?​query=davinci%20code%20brown;qtype=keyw​ord;locg=1;detail_record_view=1;page=0 For number 5, why does the second, checked out item show up? i thought checked out items wouldn't show in this view.
11:59 bshum krvmga: It's only one of 2 copies.  I would assume the others have more copies with more relevant statuses.
12:00 kmlussier krvmga: It shows, it's just ranked lower.
12:00 kmlussier For a title with a lot of copies, it might not show at all since this page only displays a certain number of copies (5?).
12:01 bshum That seems different than it ought to be.  Customized?
12:01 kmlussier Different in what way?
12:02 krvmga kmlussier: i think the page is only supposed to show 5 (although it sometimes shows 6)
12:03 bshum Ah okay I get it now
12:03 bshum It's five unique lines of Library + Shelving Location + Call Number.
12:03 bshum If there happen to be more copies for that given set, it'll display up to five of those as well.
12:04 bshum http://acorn.biblio.org/eg/opac/results?q​uery=da+vinci+dan+brown&amp;qtype=keyword​&amp;fi%3Aitem_type=&amp;locg=1&amp;sort= (our number 5, for example)
12:05 bshum The first two groups have 3 copies each, but same lib + shelving + call number
12:05 bshum But then the next three lines are same lib, different shelving and call numbers
12:05 bshum So that's how it adds up to 5.
12:05 krvmga what i think i'm seeing is that the checked out item is always the last one in the library list.
12:05 bshum That's what I would expect.
12:05 bshum The available copy matters most to me.
12:07 krvmga for instance http://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/results?q​uery=hunt%20for%20red%20october;qtype=ke​yword;locg=1;detail_record_view=1;page=0 numbers 1, 15, and 33. the last library in the list, the item is checked out
12:07 bshum For 1, it's the only library with a copy?  So that's "normal" :)
12:07 krvmga 1 and 15, it's the only item in the list
12:07 bshum Same for 2
12:07 kmlussier krvmga: And to give a little background, that's something MassLNC requested way back when we were working with dbs on some TPAC development. Previously, a library's checked out copy might appear on the search results page when there was an available copy that didn't display. The patron might not click in to get more information.
12:07 bshum Err, 15
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12:08 krvmga kmlussier: are you saying this is a feature then?
12:08 bshum And for 33, there's only 3 copies at all.
12:08 bshum Why is this a bad thing?
12:08 kmlussier krvmga: It was for us. Do you want checked out copies to display ahead of available ones?
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12:08 krvmga bshum: i'm not saying it's a bad thing. i'm just trying to be able to explain the behavior coherently to library directors who are asking me about it.
12:09 krvmga kmlussier: in 33, for instance, the checked out item is also the last library in alphabetical order
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12:10 krvmga kmlussier: i found an example where it works the way you described it.
12:11 kmlussier Yeah, 33 doesn't look right to me.
12:11 krvmga kmlussier: this search http://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/results​?query=guns%20of%20navarone;qtype=keyw​ord;locg=1;detail_record_view=1;page=1 number 19
12:11 krvmga kmlussier: the last library is not in alphabetical order
12:11 kmlussier I have another thought. Hold on, let me look up the bug number...
12:12 kmlussier I know https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1234845 was loaded on your test server a while back, and we talked about loading it in production because it looked good under my testing.
12:12 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1234845 in Evergreen "possible optimization for evergreen.ranked_volumes database function" (affected: 2, heat: 12) [Medium,Triaged]
12:13 kmlussier Do you know if it ever was loaded in production? Because, if so and if my testing didn't catch something, that's where you would see the problem.
12:14 krvmga kmlussier: i do not know if it was. i'll see if i can find out.
12:14 kmlussier Nice. I actually listed what the expected ranking behavior was in my testing notes. It should be preferred library -> search library name ->call number label -> availability.
12:17 jeff asking because it just came up in conversation: does anyone have an example of where you might use a copy's "reference" attribute vs the copy's "circulate" attribute (or perhaps more commonly, the copy's location's "circulate" attribute)?
12:18 jeff i.e., is there a situation where "reference" wouldn't just be an inverse of "circulate"?
12:19 gmcharlt jeff: to explain why it doesn't circulate, particulary for reference books that are interfiled with circulating material
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12:21 mmorgan jeff: "reference" is a flag that can be used as a circ matrix matchpoint. We have some libraries that circulate some reference materials with a shorter loan period and higher fine than other materials.
12:21 jeff gmcharlt: does reference display in the staff or public view of the catalog, and/or does an attempt to check out the item throw a different message to staff?
12:21 * jeff looks
12:21 jeff mmorgan: okay, that was one example that i had wondered about -- good to know.
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12:52 bshum omg, 8 days, 8 hours for auth to bib linking?
12:52 * bshum dies a little inside
12:53 * RoganH buys bshum a mint shake.
12:54 * bshum admires ktomita_'s patience.
12:55 bshum I don't think I would survive that long.
12:55 ktomita_ bshum: I just started it and walked away.
12:56 bshum Heh
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12:59 RoganH ktomita_: SSDs?
13:00 bshum I wonder if other activity on the same server would slow things down.
13:00 bshum Like any bib changes, acq loading, item deletions.
13:00 bshum I don't have any experience, just pondering
13:00 RoganH bshum: btw, forget SSDs, pure PCIe flash storage
13:01 bshum RoganH: I really wanted PCIe storage, but I couldn't sell it to the higher ups this round
13:01 bshum I needed to do more research too on if that allows for good RAID options.
13:01 ktomita_ this was just done on a single box with an SSD.  Nothing else was run on the server
13:01 RoganH bshum: I got it in my new laptop and I cry with joy a little every time I run a VM.
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13:08 bshum Mini break at BiblioHQ for mllewellyn cake (island style for the last day of our intern working on Islandora)
13:08 * bshum comes back with a slice
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13:58 mceraso mllewellyn++  #delicious cake!
13:59 jeff aha!
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14:00 jeff force checkin of a copy (let's pretend it isn't needed for a hold/etc) at a location other than that copy's circ_lib (let's pretend the copy isn't floating) results in 1) a transit being created to send the copy to its circ_lib followed by a changing of the copy's status to Reshelving instead of in-transit.
14:01 jeff er, forgot to number the second step as 2)
14:01 jeff but anyway, bug identified!
14:04 dbs kmlussier++ # we should get that sorting behaviour into the catalogue docs
14:04 jeff in the words of the G.I. Joe character "Launchpad", "identification isn't even half the battle!"
14:06 kmlussier dbs: Agreed
14:07 kmlussier krvmga: Those public catalog docs you shared yesterday, are those targeted for end users (i.e. library patrons) or library staff?
14:07 * kmlussier hasn't had a chance to look at them.
14:10 * dbs hasn't had time yet either
14:10 * dbs takes off again
14:11 jeff seems like expecting non-staff users to read documentation to use your library catalog is unrealistic.
14:14 kmlussier jeff: I generally was thinking the same thing. In looking at what we now have for public catalog documentation (the little we have), it also looks like we have a mish mash of material. Some more end user type "how to do a browse search" mixed with configuration options to make things behave differently.
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14:15 kmlussier Adding things like how the holdings information information is more along the lines of explaining to staff why things display the way they do, which is useful for staff, sys admins, etc. but I don't think the end user typically thinks about it.
14:16 kmlussier I'm just grappling with the best way to present all of this information in an organized fashion.
14:18 dbs jeff: I don't think non-staff users are going to read it. But staff need a place with answers for when patrons or other staff are asking "What the heck is going on?"
14:18 * dbs _really_ takes off
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14:33 pinesol_green [opensrf|Galen Charlton] LP#1234816: improve const-correctness of osrfCachePutString and osrfCachePutObject - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p​=OpenSRF.git;a=commit;h=8a8b4cb>
14:33 pinesol_green [opensrf|Galen Charlton] LP#1285915: document that perl2JSON doesn't order hash keys - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p​=OpenSRF.git;a=commit;h=8fb4405>
14:33 pinesol_green [opensrf|Galen Charlton] LP#1286248: remove osrf_ctl.sh - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p​=OpenSRF.git;a=commit;h=339ac28>
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16:41 bshum csharp: Hmm, you know, I can't seem to find an open bug for adding Trusty support for OpenSRF
16:42 * bshum creates one so that he can merge csharp's branch
16:45 bshum gmcharlt: Any issue if I were to merge csharp's Ubuntu 14.04 branch to OpenSRF master for 2.4.0-alpha target?
16:46 bshum Happy to let it sit another weekend in case it needs more eyes, but so far, so good I think.
16:46 gmcharlt I want to look at it
16:46 gmcharlt also, I'm not seeing the bug #
16:47 gmcharlt ah, there it is
16:47 gmcharlt bshum: on second thought, go ahead
16:48 bshum gmcharlt: Actually what I should do is take csharp's work and add the README updates as another commit.
16:48 bshum Then give it to you for a quick glance and merge ;)
16:48 gmcharlt ok
16:55 bshum gmcharlt: Bug updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/opensrf/+bug/1315525
16:55 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1315525 in OpenSRF "Add Ubuntu 14.04 makefile target for OpenSRF" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Medium,Confirmed]
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17:17 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
17:30 pinesol_green [opensrf|Chris Sharp] LP#1315525: Updating Makefile.install for Ubuntu 14.04. Removing lucid support. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p​=OpenSRF.git;a=commit;h=be5c3d8>
17:30 pinesol_green [opensrf|Ben Shum] LP#1315525: Add trusty target and remove lucid from README - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p​=OpenSRF.git;a=commit;h=65ce998>
17:41 bshum Thanks gmcharlt! Now the fun part, getting Evergreen squared away....
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18:09 bmills https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1315552
18:09 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1315552 in Evergreen "Duplicate initial search results where copy circ lib/call number owning lib are different" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,New]
18:30 bshum bmills: Well, that looks.... lovely
18:30 bshum :\
22:14 * jeff yawns
22:33 afterl1 joined #evergreen

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