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IRC log for #evergreen, 2014-04-01

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Time Nick Message
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04:57 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
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07:28 kmlussier @coffee
07:28 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of Panama Mama Cata Geisha, and sends it sliding down the bar to kmlussier
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09:34 csharp @weather 30345
09:34 pinesol_green csharp: The current temperature in Lakeside, Atlanta, Georgia is 60.6°F (9:30 AM EDT on April 01, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 47%. Dew Point: 41.0°F. Pressure: 30.17 in 1022 hPa (Rising).
09:34 csharp ahhhh that's better
09:34 kmlussier Nice!
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10:16 rfrasur So, in the reports interface, if you go to the "reports" folder and click on a list, the reports reference a template number...but then in the template folder, that number is not displayed.  So, is there a way, outside of SQL, to pair those up?
10:16 rfrasur (how many times can YOU use "reports" in a sentence?)
10:17 dbs rfrasur: mebbe you can write a report to generate the list of templates & their IDs? half-serious :)
10:17 rfrasur dbs: :-|
10:19 rfrasur I think it'd be tempting fate to attempt to write that report.
10:26 rfrasur @eightball Is there a way to determine which template was used for which report based off of the information provided in the reports interface?
10:26 pinesol_green rfrasur: One would be wise to think so.
10:29 collum Interesting  http://iii.com/polaris
10:30 rfrasur Ugh.
10:31 dbs collum: April Fools?
10:31 * rfrasur hopes so.
10:31 dbs Probably not though.
10:32 * _bott_ didn't realize they had a sense of humor
10:32 ericar joined #evergreen
10:33 rfrasur It's a very well planned joke if it's a joke.
10:33 collum I don't think so.
10:33 collum I mean.  I think it's real.
10:34 rfrasur I think you're right.
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10:50 csharp rfrasur: what's your use case for pairing the templates + ids?
10:54 rfrasur I have a recurring report that's in the report folder, but I wanted to rebuild the report based off of the original template.  The template ID for the report is 11529.  I don't, however, see any ID # in the template lists.
10:56 csharp interesting
10:58 rfrasur I think (based on no real information whatsoever) that it'd be pretty easy to match up with SQL, but I don't have access to that...and I think (again based on no real information whatsoever) that it should be a pretty simple (right?) thing to add in?
10:59 kmlussier If there is a template ID in the reports interface, then I think it would be nice if you could just click on the ID to retrieve the template.
11:00 rfrasur kmlussier++ #even better
11:00 rfrasur (rather than me going back and forth visually matching up numbers I've written down on a piece of paper)
11:03 pastebot "csharp" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "report of templates with IDs for rfrasur" (11 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/40
11:04 csharp rfrasur: just create a template following those paths, enter your barcode, boom
11:05 rfrasur o...k.  I'll give it a try.  Oh, that makes sense.  Duh.  Thank you.
11:05 rfrasur csharp++
11:06 csharp hope it works for you
11:06 rfrasur I'll let you know.
11:18 eby dbs: the joke is on the customer every day going forward
11:19 dbs eby++
11:19 rfrasur eby++
11:25 rfrasur csharp++ #it worked
11:30 kmlussier eby++
11:32 csharp rfrasur: great!
11:32 rfrasur :D
11:33 csharp you could get fancier and run off the reports source, linking to templates - that way you'd see the templates whether or not they are owned by you
11:34 csharp (as in the case of shared templates)
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11:39 rfrasur csharp: I'm not sure "fancy" and I would get along real well.  This worked...though I do like kmlussier's idea of having the ID number in the interface automatically linking to the originating template.
11:41 kmlussier rfrasur: Sometime soon (2.next?), you should have the ability to edit that report directly instead of building it again from a template. We're about to sign a contract to get that development work done.
11:41 dbs masslnc++
11:43 rfrasur masslnc++ kmlussier++
11:43 rfrasur and I like the 2.next
11:48 kmlussier I would say masslnc deserves all the karma for that project. I just do what their libraries tell me is important to them.
11:48 kmlussier And they're very good at telling me what they want, so it makes my job easy. :)
11:49 rfrasur You get karma for "want wrangling."
11:51 mmorgan kmlussier++
11:51 mmorgan masslnc wouldn't be masslnc without kmlussier!
11:52 kmlussier Awwww shucks! Thank you mmorgan!
11:53 * rfrasur remembers to eat breakfast.
11:54 jeff knew i forgot something.
11:55 * kmlussier had to stop and think to remember whether I ate breakfast or not.
11:55 kmlussier I did.
11:55 jeff breakfast++
11:55 kmlussier @dessert rfrasur
11:55 * pinesol_green grabs a big dish of Tapioca Pudding and sends it sliding down the dessert bar to rfrasur
11:55 kmlussier rfrasur: You should have dessert for breakfast whenever you get the chance.
11:55 jeff that command is just begging for a @desert variant to poke fun at typos
11:56 kmlussier hmmmm
11:57 rfrasur I got a little cupcake too.
11:57 rfrasur and grapenuts...because grapenuts rule.
11:59 rfrasur (with raisins...of course)
12:01 kmlussier yboston: Have you made any decisions yet regarding the April DIG meeting?
12:08 gsams late to this, but masslnc++
12:12 jl- @coffee
12:12 * pinesol_green brews and pours a cup of Kenya Ndiara Full Flavor Roast, and sends it sliding down the bar to jl-
12:12 rfrasur hmm
12:12 rfrasur @lunch
12:12 pinesol_green rfrasur: Down time is a fact of business when you're a poor 501c3 corporation.
12:13 * rfrasur rolls eyes
12:13 kmlussier Heh
12:14 jeff that "down time is a fact of business" has always bugged me a bit.
12:14 jeff dunno.
12:15 jeff (pun intended)
12:15 rfrasur jeff++
12:15 jeff (because it's a @dunno entry -- and now i've explained the joke :P)
12:15 rfrasur oh, I thought you were referring to bugs causing downtime.
12:16 rfrasur triple meaning pun
12:17 jeff nope, missed that one completely!
12:17 rfrasur Oh well.   Not like it's logged or anything :D
12:18 Dyrcona @dunno
12:18 pinesol_green Dyrcona: Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
12:18 rfrasur hehe
12:20 Dyrcona kmlussier: I'll see about loading the original branch tonight. I still have it kicking around.
12:21 jl- the dude abides
12:21 rfrasur Hmm, new article in LJ under systems landscape about Open Source options.
12:26 Dyrcona LJ = Library Journal? (Could be Linux Journal.)
12:27 rfrasur Oh, I'm sorry.  Yes, Library Journal.
12:28 rfrasur <--small perspective at times.
12:28 jcamins rfrasur: should I avoid #evergreen and #koha for the next month?
12:29 rfrasur lol, no.
12:30 rfrasur It's kind of a "state of the" article.
12:32 csharp April 1 is the "ILS Review" issue
12:32 rfrasur csharp++ #yes...sorry.  Again, I also don't pay attention to covers.
12:38 Dyrcona I'm not finding the article on the web site, but I'm not surprised.
12:38 rfrasur I just got the magazine.
12:43 rfrasur Hah, good question.  Forking isn't necessarily bad, right?  Isn't that the point of OSS?  You can take something and build whatever the heck you want?
12:43 graced I think the "fork" term is used because someone at KCLS uses it to self-describe what they've done.
12:44 rfrasur If you want to continue developing in a similar direction with other entities, you necessarily have to stay closer to a master...but...yeah.
12:44 rfrasur graced: that makes sense
12:45 graced If you say you've got a fork, who am I to argue it's a spoon?
12:45 Dyrcona :)
12:45 * rfrasur prefers chopsticks.  Can we have chopsticked software?
12:45 kmlussier rfrasur++
12:46 rfrasur It'll be very gentle and follow confucian principles....and make people swear a lot.
12:46 graced Can the software pop out a fortune cookie at the end of every transaction?
12:46 rfrasur THAT....would be awesome.
12:46 * graced needs to get eeevil on that
12:46 Dyrcona graced: It could pop out a fortune rather easily.
12:46 rfrasur and it could have pinesol_green quotes in the cookies.
12:46 graced Feh.  I want the cookie. :)
12:47 dbs Forking isn't bad if the forked source is offered up.
12:47 graced Dyrcona: I'm imagining the complaints now re: the quality of the fortunes...
12:47 dbs It's not necessarily "bad" even if the forked source is not offered up, but it could be considered poor form.
12:48 csharp well it's not really a fork *unless* the source is offered up, strictly speaking
12:48 csharp at least not a public fork
12:48 graced dbs: Last I spoke with KCLS most of what they're doing is specific to CentOS and they honestly didn't think anyone really cared
12:48 Dyrcona CentOS--
12:49 graced And they realize they've been remiss in offering a public git repo and are planning to fix that soon-ish...
12:49 Dyrcona They could have offered to maintain CentOS build files.
12:49 graced indeed
12:49 rfrasur meh, whatever.
12:50 csharp @fortune
12:50 pinesol_green csharp: Go away, or I'll replace you with a very small shell script!
12:51 Dyrcona KCLS isn't required to share anything, though.
12:51 rfrasur Truth, Dyrcona.
12:54 csharp there are some GPL provisions that imply that source must be shared (if I understand correctly, and IANAL)
12:54 Dyrcona charp: Only if you give people binaries.
12:55 Dyrcona The GPL is lousy for web software, so the AGPL was created for that purpose.
12:55 mtcarlson just to add a little context, we made a move to pull our support in house and have really been focusing on the environment (stability) this past year. unfortunately we didn't really "staff up" for all that included. One unfortunate outcome was not being having bandwidth for better communication on what we were doing locally
12:55 * dbs wonders what the binaries would be for Template::Toolkit templates :)
12:55 rfrasur mtcarlson++
12:56 dbs stability++
12:56 Dyrcona dbs: Exactly. Most of Evergreen is "interpreted" code.
12:56 graced mtcarlson: good to see you!
12:57 Dyrcona Basically, if you distribute "binaries" you are required to make the source for those binaries available to the people to whom you distribute the binaries.
12:57 Dyrcona If you use GPL software and don't distribute it to others, you can do what you like with your modifications.
12:58 mtcarlson graced: thanks :)
12:58 Dyrcona The AGPL says, if you use modified software on your website, you have to make the modifications available to the people who use your website.
12:58 graced mtcarlson: planning to get a public repo up soon?
12:59 dbs The GPL says nothing about "binaries"
12:59 dbs executable and object code, yes.
13:00 csharp speaking of Linux Journal, my e-copy is available - yay!
13:00 Dyrcona dbs: Those were usually binaries in the day.
13:00 mtcarlson graced: someting along those lines yes, we're in process of building up our local team, with that will come more hours in the day, with more hours in the day...well you know how it goes
13:00 dbs And making HTML and JavaScript available via HTTP is arguably distribution (possibly in a medium customarily used for software interchange)
13:00 dbs Dyrcona: It's a license. Terms matter.
13:01 Dyrcona dbs: I know that terms matter. I also know that it was written in an era of mostly C code. The AGPL also exists for a reason.
13:01 rfrasur mtcarlson: As a point of curiousity and for more context, how many people/hours are hoping to be added?
13:02 Dyrcona I also admit to not being a lawyer. :)
13:03 dbs Dyrcona: Okay. I, too, am quite familiar with both the history of the GPL and the development of the AGPL.
13:04 mtcarlson rfrasur: roughly the equivalent of 1 additional FTE, not sure how that looks in the end yet, possibly a bit more at times.
13:04 dbs I'm saying that there has been some evolution in the thinking about the terms of "distribution" and "preferred form of the work for making modifications to it" that could be used even in the absence of the AGPL
13:05 graced mtcarlson: maybe you can take a vacation now?
13:05 rfrasur mtcarlson, I hope it goes well.  In house support is a big deal and I can imagine it's been pretty overwhelming.
13:05 Dyrcona I think a strong case could made that the HTML and JavaScript are not the code but the output of the code in the case of something like Evergreen.
13:05 mtcarlson vacation++
13:05 csharp mtcarlson: yeah - if I or GPLS/PINES can help in any way, just ask ;-)
13:05 Dyrcona But the result could vary widely by jurisdiction.
13:06 dbs Dyrcona: yep
13:06 graced mtcarlson: ditto what csharp said
13:06 mtcarlson rfrasur: thanks
13:06 * dbs can help with git wrangling, if mtcarlson needs it
13:06 csharp dbs++
13:07 mtcarlson csharp: graced: thank you both dbs: will let you know, thanks
13:08 kmlussier dbwells: I know we don't have old client code on the server, but I'm not sure how I would be able to tell if I have old client code on my PC. I could always reinstall the client from scratch if that helps.
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13:17 dbwells kmlussier: I am reinstalling right now to check it out again.  It's been almost a month already since I last looked at this, and a busy month at that.  It's possible that a commit is missing from my public branch.
13:18 kmlussier dbwells: OK, I'll hold off then. Thanks!
13:37 dbwells kmlussier: ok, tried to recreate the $3.99 lost billing case, here is what I got: http://screencast.com/t/urv1F0q6
13:38 kmlussier dbwells: That's what I had hoped to see. :)
13:38 kmlussier So the good news is we're on the same page. The bad news is I have to figure out why I'm seeing something different.
13:38 dbwells yeah :)
13:40 dbwells I only changed two setting for this test.  "Void list item billing when returned" is true for CONS, "Prohibit negative balance on bills (DEFAULT)" is true for CONS.
13:40 dbwells Set item price to $3.99, marked lost, paid $1.99, returned item
13:40 kmlussier Yes, that's what I have. Well, the negative balance setting isn't for the consortium in my case. It's for the branch.
13:41 * kmlussier will need to focus on working with some other issues with Dyrcona and return to this question shortly.
13:42 dbwells I can try that, but it seems unlikely.  Your display is strange enough that it seems likely to be code from two different branches mixing in a bad way.
13:53 dbwells kmlussier: good news, I did recreate the bug by putting the setting on the branch rather than CONS.  Now to figure out why...
13:54 kmlussier dbwells: Oh good! It's not just me then.
13:55 rfrasur graced++
13:58 * graced looks confused
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14:01 rfrasur email...got it.
14:02 graced rfrasur: Ah, good!  I hope it was helpful.
14:02 rfrasur tis
14:02 graced Then I feel as if I have accomplished something worthwhile today.
14:02 rfrasur ;), more than one thing I'm sure
14:04 graced Well, maybe two...
14:04 rfrasur Maybe.
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14:09 rjackson-isl Anyone supporting a library that still prints spine labels through the staff client - specifically using 2.5.x and the printer mentioned in the dated documentation: OKI Microline 320 Turbo printer?
14:10 rjackson-isl Documentation is: http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.ph​p?id=evergreen-user:printing_spine_labels
14:11 rjackson-isl Library indicates not printing since upgrade and they have followed the documentation at link
14:13 yboston MY library is on 2.5, but we use simple Dymo printers and I did not follow that wiki page, though some steps might be similar.
14:14 rjackson-isl it is hard to provide assistance when you can't duplicate the environment! (IE: no printer...)
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14:20 rfrasur (woohoo...new Overdrive circ record!)
14:20 krvmga rfrasur: what is it?
14:20 rfrasur Hah!  212
14:21 * krvmga notes that cwmars has hit (little finger to side of mouth) one million overdrive circs.
14:21 rfrasur Oh, n/m.  It's not a record.  We had 260 in January.
14:21 rfrasur ;), we're not really a big deal.  But we're cute.  Right?
14:22 krvmga rfrasur++
14:22 rfrasur But, we've had 3 straight months of 200+ circulations...so there's that.  Which is kind of a big deal for us...since it's almost a trend.
14:33 rfrasur And our wireless uses more than doubled since we upped the number of IPs that were available (and I turned off the P2P filter...:p)
14:38 krvmga rfrasur: you can increase your wireless use (or at least the potential for it) by shortening the TTL of the IP assignments.
14:39 krvmga sometimes these are set to one day by default!
14:39 rfrasur I dunno what that means.  You mean how long between when new leases are sent out?
14:40 jihpringle rjackson-isl: we had some libraries using the OLKI Microline when we upgraded to 2.4 and the end result was they had to buy new spine label printer
14:40 krvmga yes, the length of time that an IP address will remain assigned.
14:40 rfrasur krvmga: I did change that, and that's probably part of it as well.  It was set at 12 hours.  I changed it to 1 hour.
14:40 krvmga if your library has a time constraint on how long a patron can be on an internet machine, you might just want to set the wireless to be the same.
14:40 rfrasur Which was a little agressive...but...that's how I roll.
14:40 krvmga at ours it was three.
14:41 rjackson-isl jihpringle: that would make sense as we jumped from 2.2 to 2.5
14:41 rfrasur krvmga: If I start getting complaints, I'll dial it back.  As it is, I haven't yet.
14:42 krvmga rfrasur: the worst that will happen at one hour is that the patron will be disconnected and have to re-connect.
14:42 rfrasur Right.  And I'm okay with that for the most part.
14:42 krvmga this is mainly a hassle for people who are watching movies
14:42 krvmga but i actually don't care about them
14:43 krvmga i don't want them hogging
14:43 jihpringle rjackson-isl: one of our libraries gave us their old printer and with the printer we couldn't get it to work properly.  Our libraries are now using the Dymo printers
14:43 rfrasur We don't actually get a lot of them anyway.  More just YouTube stuff...plus they have to borrow headphones that other people have worn...
14:44 krvmga rfrasur: yukk!! i got a deal from the same company that sold us playaways where they just sold us boxes of ear buds. we then sold them to patrons at a buck a pop. paid for itself.
14:44 rjackson-isl jihpringle++ that was our next step to get the thing delivered and play with it...
14:44 rfrasur We get people watching stuff on tablets and phones, but it doesn't drag the network as much....and they're usually only here for their lunch or whatever.
14:45 krvmga we got the friends of the library to come up with the seed money for the ear buds and after that it was self sustaining.
14:45 rfrasur krvmga: We did the exact same thing at the library where I was before.  Right now, we're in the process of evaluating whether we want to go down the playaway rabbit hole at this library or not.
14:45 krvmga you can skip the playaways and just get the ear buds :)
14:46 rfrasur lol, I kinda like having the gross headphones.  The smart patrons know which ones to ask for specifically (never accept the top two pair) >:-)
14:46 krvmga rofl
14:47 rfrasur (I also have a pair in my office that I'll loan out on special request to certain individuals...generally only teens)
14:47 krvmga when you consider that the public workstation keyboards are dirtier than toilets, i hate to think of the ear phones.
14:47 rfrasur They're clean...and get cleaned.  The others?  No guarantees.
14:47 * rfrasur shudders
14:48 rfrasur Our janitor is pretty meticulous about the keyboards...but I'm not sure it matters.
14:48 rfrasur Things happen there...bad things.
14:48 krvmga lol
14:49 rfrasur I also enjoyed mucking horse stalls though...and babies.  Public librarianship bears some striking similarities at times.
14:52 krvmga i notice that earbud prices have risen slightly in the past two years. you'd have to sell them for $1.25 now.
14:52 rfrasur Are they still orange?  Hmm, n/m.  I think only the promotional ones were orange.
14:53 krvmga we just got black.
14:54 rfrasur I think that's what we had as well.  It's been a handful of years.  Still $1.25 is a pretty good deal.
14:56 krvmga rfrasur: you only pay, maybe, $1.16/ea. but sell them for $1.25. This is a good reason to do this through the friends since the library isn't allowed to engage in this kind of commerce.
14:56 rfrasur Of course.
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15:03 rfrasur Okay, this day of work has been called complete.  Peace to y'all.
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16:34 kmlussier Looks like it's time to schedule a dev meeting. I have a Doodle poll at http://doodle.com/ze47agcsia9mdhdb
16:37 kmlussier @dessert Dyrcona
16:37 * pinesol_green grabs a slice of Pecan Pie and sends it sliding down the dessert bar to Dyrcona
16:37 kmlussier That's for being the first person to fill out the meeting poll.
16:38 * Dyrcona blushes. ;)
16:38 bshum Heh
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17:30 pinesol_green Incoming from qatests: Test Success - http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html <http://testing.evergreen-ils.org/~live/test.html>
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