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IRC log for #evergreen, 2014-02-17

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Time Nick Message
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08:48 jl- moin
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08:57 RoganH morning
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09:17 jl- is there a good overview of data fields / control fields / leader in marcxml records
09:17 jl- number ranges that are valid
09:17 jl- etc.
09:22 senator jl-: that question is somewhat more complicated than you think, and you may want to talk with a librarian, but an easy resource that might answer most of your immediate questions is here: http://loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ecbdhome.html
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09:47 jeff senator++
09:47 jeff "cover most of your immediate questions and raise several others" :-)
09:48 jl- thx
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10:05 RoganH jl- fair warning - get five catalogers in a room to discuss how to interpret one marc field and you will get at least six opinions.
10:06 JennB hello! Im having a weird issue with Serials. I am trying to add a subscription but my screen won't load. It only says "please select an object to edit". I have been able to add a sub before.
10:17 RoganH JennB: what version of Evergreen are you running?
10:17 JennB Hi Rogan, 2.4.2
10:17 JennB And it def could be user error. Im new to serials.
10:18 RoganH I'm looking to see if I can duplicate it.  That sounds like the error on the drop down.
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10:20 JennB Rogan, It looks like all is fixed, meaning I can add subscriptions etc if I search for a different serial that I haven't used before. The problem is that I want to edit a sub that I have created before. You are right, it's not giving me the dropdown option/org units to choose from
10:21 RoganH So, to make sure I Understand, this is on the Actions drop down for a subscription, right?
10:23 JennB correct. When I click on subscriptions or actually any (item, units, distributions) they say "please select an object to edit".
10:24 RoganH Is anything showing up in the Location/Subscriptions box beneath?
10:24 jeff senator: bug 1272074 looks like a very nice feature
10:24 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1272074 in Evergreen "Enhancements to the MARC editor concerning fixed fields" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272074 - Assigned to Dan Wells (dbw2)
10:24 jeff (he says, after having been pulled into a MARC fixed fields tangent over the weekend)
10:25 senator jeff: thanks. i owe the community some reviews before i can really expect anyone else to review that, unless they find it especially exciting
10:25 JennB Rogan--no, I don't see anything there
10:26 RoganH That's the fundamental problem, those are the objects it's referring to.  It needs one selected to edit.
10:26 RoganH What is in the org unit selector above that?
10:26 RoganH Maybe it's not showing the right org unit?  Try having it show a broader scope (like your own system or consortium).
10:27 JennB A-ha, Rogan, for some reason, it's there now. I went to the org unit and reselected the same library and now it's moved on to the correct screen
10:28 JennB fingers crossed it remains but if not, ill try what you suggest- show a broader scope
10:28 JennB thank you!
10:28 RoganH glad it worked out for you
10:28 JennB my co-worker just said "mercury retrograde" ;)
10:33 paxed senator: there seems to be lots of debug dump()s in the fixed_fields_enhancements_rebase
10:35 senator paxed: ah thanks, i'd better clean that up. will dos hortly
10:36 senator *do shortly
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10:53 jeff are whitespace-only differences between baseline and upgrade schema files currently worth worrying about?
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11:10 berick jeff: i wouldn't worry about them
11:14 jeff that's good enough for me. :-)
11:15 jeff after rebasing to master and copying functions from the baseline and upgrade schema files (only three functions in this case), I must say I'm looking forward to eeevil's ideas for making all that easier.
11:19 senator paxed: fixed, thanks https://bugs.launchpad.net/eve​rgreen/+bug/1272074/comments/1
11:19 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1272074 in Evergreen "Enhancements to the MARC editor concerning fixed fields" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Dan Wells (dbw2)
11:19 jeff senator++ paxed++
11:20 jeff senator: somewhat tangental to the new feature, did you come across some fixed fields that had incorrect positions defined in FixedFields.js?
11:21 senator i did not look too deeply at that, but maybe. i do recall one head-scratching moment or two when editing a field in the fixed field editor seemed to edit a moving window in the 008, or something, each time i did it. but i didn't manage to reproducde it later, and it didn't seem to be in code that i changed (so far as i could tell)
11:23 jeff senator: got it. also, upon glancing at your branch, I see it doesn't touch FixedFields.js, so if I confirm the bug I think I found with a position or two, there's no inter-relation
11:23 berick jeff: me too (re: pg upgrades).  the whole SQL dev process is tedious and error prone
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11:39 jeff berick: and you've been doing this a lot longer than i have. :-)
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12:14 jeff drat. just a few days too late for the located-uri-visibility upgrade script to get 0856
12:14 jeff calling 0857
12:15 dbwells heh
12:17 dbwells I say switch'em, some things in life are more important than order ;)
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12:24 Wyuli Round of applause for Evergreen Indiana folks! Smoothest upgrade I've seen yet.
12:24 jeff EI++
12:25 rfrasur That's no lie.  Unbelievably smooth.
12:25 rfrasur EI++
12:26 rfrasur And ready to go before we opened....and server mishaps.
12:26 rfrasur no server mishaps
12:26 Wyuli Indeed!
12:28 Wyuli Working out remaining SIP stuff on our end here (Greensburg), but otherwise, nothing was exploded or on fire when I came in.
12:29 Wyuli That's actually a better average than normal days, now that I think about it...
12:29 rfrasur Thankfully, we only have Overdrive to contend with right now (and probably some legacy Ebsco stuff that I don't care about and we no longer pay for).
12:30 rfrasur and everything will be ironed out nicely when we go live with hoopla on the 3rd.
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12:30 rfrasur in Hagerstown, that is.
12:34 rfrasur seeing_another_EI_library_in_IRC++
12:39 pinesol_green Showing latest 5 of 7 commits to Evergreen...
12:39 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Global flag for setting Located URI behavioral mode - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=b11cd78>
12:39 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Upgrade script - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=3f6d29e>
12:39 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Teach evergreen.located_uris() about the new URI visiblity flag - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=169805f>
12:39 pinesol_green [evergreen|Mike Rylander] Release notes - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=e4cbe67>
12:39 pinesol_green [evergreen|Jeff Godin] Stamping 0857 for located uri visibility changes - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=be5803f>
12:40 Wyuli :)
12:41 Wyuli #Anything_expressed_in_IRC_is_person​al_opinion_and_not_the_official_stan​ce_of_the_Greensburg_Public_Library
12:41 rfrasur lol, of course.
12:42 rfrasur (you should hear some of the crap I say in here...there's no way my library would sanction it)
12:45 Wyuli Most excellent.
12:45 Wyuli Networking++
12:45 Wyuli Productivity--
12:45 rfrasur ;)
12:48 Wyuli Apparently my receipt printers are not printing text on receipts correctly.
12:48 Wyuli Except for sometimes, when they do.
12:50 rfrasur I think that's the nature of receipt printers.  I haven't heard any complaints from the circ desk yet...but that means next to nothing.  They'll probably tell me a week from now that it's been doing it for a week.
12:51 rfrasur (like the back door that wouldn't open...or the clogged toilet...or the circ computer that was blue screening repeatedly)
12:51 Wyuli Those things are supposed to fix themselves if you pretend like they don't exist.
12:52 rfrasur yes...so long as my stash of pixie dust is full
12:52 * rfrasur forgot to order pixie dust from Gaylord.
12:53 rfrasur But, all is well because we are now on 2.5.2 and it's pretty fantastic.
13:11 Wyuli Any other Evergreen Indiana libraries having issues logging into Overdrive?
13:12 Wyuli On phone with Overdrive support, apparently it's a known issue they're looking at?
13:13 rjackson-isl jboyer and mrpeters deserve a standing ovation for this upgrade. unbelievable to me at least the amount of changes made to both hardware and software with almost no issues!
13:13 rfrasur I haven't checked with OD yet.  Suspect that'd be a good idea right about now.
13:14 * Wyuli concurs with rjackson-isl
13:14 Wyuli Is there a place we can send congratulatory pizza to?
13:14 rfrasur Wyuli - yes, it's not logging in for me either.  Did they give you an indication of why it's not working?
13:15 rjackson-isl in fact... the outstanding issues are almost all the result of ongoing ingests ni the db - these are expected and unavoidable!
13:15 rfrasur Hmm (speak of the devil), appears it's SIP related.
13:15 Wyuli rfrasur: On phone with them at the moment, it's a known issue and they're working on it, waiting to hear where they're at in the process.
13:15 rfrasur okie.
13:20 Wyuli Sounds like Overdrive needs to manually update some settings for every EI library in the EIDC network.
13:20 Wyuli They're putting in some temporary rule-checking of some sort so users will be able to login while they make the fix.
13:20 rfrasur hmm, okay.
13:22 Wyuli Looks like we're able to login OK, anyone else confirm/deny?
13:22 jeff interesting.
13:23 rfrasur I'm still having issues.  Are they manually inputing the fix now?
13:24 rfrasur It doesn't make sense to me that they have to do a library by library fix.  Whatever the prob is, it should be able to fixed as a consortium...I'd think.
13:24 Wyuli From the sound of it, they applied the band-aid, but the surgery is ongoing.
13:24 Wyuli That was my thought.
13:25 rfrasur Hmm, I'll continue dissecting this Amazon bill and give them some time before what little cool I have is lost.
13:25 Wyuli I figured it would just be a one-line change to the SIP address of the EI server, but maybe not?
13:25 * rfrasur isn't very cool.
13:25 rfrasur Wyuli - my thinking as well.
13:26 RoganH rfrasur: I am far too scared to go back and see what this conversation is about but you have my sympathies whatever it is.  SIP--
13:27 rfrasur RoganH: I'm not even smart enough to understand why SIP is bad...though I'm learning and it doesn't make me feel very good at all.
13:27 rfrasur "smart enough"?  perhaps "knowledgeable enough" is more accurate.
13:27 * rfrasur is smart enough to be very annoyed right now.
13:28 RoganH rfrasur: The short version is that SIP is a mess.  It's a standard that isn't really standard.
13:28 RoganH rfrasur: And it's not an ideal technology but it's a lingua franca of the realm so it's prevalent and we have to live with it's ... not faults, but short comings.
13:29 RoganH rfrasur: On it's own SIP is not ideal.  Once you add technology limitations it has shortcomings.  Once you had vendors it's a hot mess.
13:30 rfrasur That's what I'm thinking that...that it's a system that was built with failure as the only realistic outcome.
13:30 rfrasur You can't have ambiguity in a standard and then add people.
13:31 rfrasur (You can't have ambiguity in ANYTHING and then add people and expect it to NOT fall apart)
13:32 Wyuli I'm pretty sure people fall apart pretty well even if you don't add in technology...
13:33 rfrasur Exactly.
13:33 RoganH I'll give you an example of a conversation I've had with an actual vendor.  Names removed to protect the guilty.
13:33 rfrasur Wait....let me take a deep breath first.
13:33 Wyuli Does the vendor's name rhyme with "Centec?"
13:33 rfrasur okay.
13:34 RoganH Me: "Why doesn't this work?"  Vendor: "Because Evergreen doesn't follow the SIP protocol."  Me: "Yes, it does."  Vendor: "No, it doesn't."
13:34 * rfrasur laughs
13:34 RoganH Vendor: "It's a standard, it's documented, here is the document, Evergreen doesn't follow it."
13:34 Wyuli lolol
13:34 RoganH I then look at the standard and look at my error logs and duplicate their problem.
13:35 RoganH Me: "Your request here is not standard.  It's formatted like this one that is but you're expecting a response field not standard for this exchange pair.  That's what's breaking."
13:35 RoganH Vendor: "That's the standard."
13:35 RoganH Me: "That's not in the standard."
13:35 RoganH Vendor: "Well, that's still the standard."
13:35 jeff Which field and message pair?
13:36 RoganH Me: "Your standard?  Where is it documented?"  Vendor: "That's proprietary."
13:36 jcamins jeff: DWIM 123456
13:36 * rfrasur laughs again
13:37 RoganH jeff:  I can't even remember off the top of my head.  It's now in Evergreen's SIP though.  I would have to share the story of how it got in off a publicly documented channel though.
13:37 rfrasur Have they forgotten that WE are the customer?
13:38 * rfrasur asks rhetorically
13:38 jcamins rfrasur: of course not. If they had, they'd be using DWIW not DWIM.
13:39 rfrasur I dunno what that is.
13:39 rfrasur "do what I want?"
13:39 rfrasur (cuz that'd be nice)
13:43 jcamins Yeah, I did that by analogy with DWIM.
13:43 rfrasur that's what i didn't understand...but I figured it out ;)
13:44 jcamins rfrasur: important lesson in programming: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20011121
13:46 * rfrasur chuckles
13:49 jcamins (also, gosh, that was more than twelve years ago)
13:53 rfrasur but still relevant
13:53 jcamins rfrasur: does your library have a microscope?
13:56 rfrasur Nope.  Not yet.
13:57 rfrasur Hopefully we will for this summer though.
13:59 jcamins I was thinking that a microscope seemed like something your library would have.
13:59 * jcamins discovered last night that we live in the future. For $125 you can get a microscope with 1000x magnification that plugs into a *computer*.
14:00 rfrasur We're going to have a small enrichment area (because everything is small here) as soon as I can get the rest of the juvenile nonfiction weeded and then turn the bookcases.
14:01 rfrasur It's much more involved moving library furniture than home furniture...generally.
14:01 rfrasur It's on the short list.  Hmm, I like the idea of it having a computer interface, though I like the nice analog ones as well.
14:01 paxed enrichment area? next up: companion cubes and cake!
14:01 * rfrasur got a microscope for Christmas one year.
14:02 rfrasur I say yes to the cake and MIGHT say yes to the companion cubes so long as they're not creepy.
14:02 jcamins rfrasur: I'm not sure, but it's possible that the computer-connected one can be converted to a non-computer-connected one for the price of an eyepiece.
14:03 rfrasur I suspect so.
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14:03 * rfrasur googles companion cubes
14:03 jcamins Not that I can justify getting myself a microscope, but if I could, I'd really like it to be both analog and digital.
14:05 rfrasur paxed: That is beyond me.  I can barely deal with the known universe, let along a Portal universe.
14:06 rfrasur There will be no companion cubes in this library unless I get a REALLY good vacation at some point before their inclusion.
14:06 paxed rfrasur: it's an excellent puzzle game.
14:06 rfrasur They look like cubelets
14:07 rfrasur https://www.modrobotics.com/cubelets
14:10 rfrasur (at least a companion cube won't threaten to stab you...so there's that)
14:16 rfrasur paxed: are you still working with koha?
14:17 paxed rfrasur: so far, yes. although it looks like i may leave the project soonish.
14:22 berick eeevil++  # per-attribute re-ingest
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14:41 eeevil dbwells: related to our discussion in Dec, re "list of ||'d isbns blows stuff up" ... this might interest you: http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/E​vergreen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/user​/miker/optimize_adjacent_like-class_bools
14:41 eeevil dbwells: I'll LP it soon
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15:31 dbwells eeevil: thanks for the update!  I look forward to looking it over in some week which isn't this one :)
15:33 eeevil dbwells: heh... cool. https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1281280 ... I'm going to force-push with amended commit messages (to include the LP bug number ... gmcharlt ;) )
15:33 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1281280 in Evergreen "Optimize adjacent same-boolean-op searches" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Low,New]
15:34 gmcharlt eeevil++
15:34 gmcharlt cross-indexers everywhere are very happy
15:35 eeevil pushed
15:52 pinesol_green [evergreen|Ben Shum] LP1125471 - Use label instead of id in recording in-house use prompt - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=ddbf7fc>
15:56 pinesol_green [evergreen|Jeff Godin] LP#1187034 Remove obsolete collections code - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=60ee958>
16:02 jeff berick++ thanks for the good eye, as well as for being (a little!) forgiving :-)
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17:02 berick jeff++ # i love the smell of cleanup in the morning
17:02 jeff bug 1187029 is ready for anyone interested in killing open-ils.ingest and removing a few hundred lines of cruft. :-)
17:02 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1187029 in Evergreen "Remove open-ils.ingest service and related code" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187029
17:02 * berick takes a look
17:03 berick tis a thing of beauty
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17:34 pinesol_green [evergreen|Jeff Godin] LP#1187029 Remove unused open-ils.ingest service - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=bc07351>
17:34 pinesol_green [evergreen|Bill Erickson] LP#1187029 release notes typo repair for ingest cleanup - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=a380379>
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17:56 davidcandlestick hi everyone
17:57 davidcandlestick I have a few noob questions
17:57 davidcandlestick hello?
18:02 bshum davidcandlestick: Hi there, feel free to ask your questions. Though bear in mind this channel is most active during work hours EST.
18:03 bshum You can also join and email the general mailing list.
18:03 * bshum is here for a few minutes, waiting on connection flights.
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18:59 * bshum disappears onto his next plane towards home.
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20:37 jeff berick: eesh. thanks for the typo catch.
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23:31 jeff bshum: welcome back to winter

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