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| 09:07 |
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| 09:07 |
RoganH |
The public hangout for the hack fest has started. |
| 09:07 |
bshum_ |
IRC is louder than this room :) |
| 09:08 |
RoganH |
shhhh we're in a library |
| 09:08 |
dbs |
Turn on clicky keys |
| 09:08 |
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| 09:08 |
jeff |
it is possible that calvin's traffic shaping penalizes common IRC ports, or even the IRC protocol itself. You may have happier luck connecting to freenode over SSL on port 6697, 7000, or 7070. |
| 09:08 |
jeff |
alternately, you can ssh to a remote host and irc from there. :-) |
| 09:09 |
senator |
don't i always :-) |
| 09:10 |
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| 09:10 |
jeff |
i'm using mosh without issue. :-) |
| 09:10 |
* rfrasur |
shall, as usual, provide background noise that has no chance of confusing development issues. |
| 09:11 |
dbs |
agenda? |
| 09:11 |
RoganH |
Can you hear OK Dan? |
| 09:13 |
bshum_ |
dbs: http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:hackfest:hackaway-2013 |
| 09:13 |
jeff |
"I'm Lebbeous Fogle-Weekley, and your arguments are irrelevant." |
| 09:13 |
csharp |
jeff++ |
| 09:14 |
rfrasur |
hah - that sounds like it should be on an EG shirt |
| 09:14 |
senator |
heh |
| 09:16 |
jeff |
:-) |
| 09:19 |
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| 09:20 |
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| 09:20 |
* eeevil |
goes to grab his table for roaming hangout |
| 09:20 |
dbs |
XML Javascript stuff also is no longer supported |
| 09:23 |
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| 09:23 |
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| 09:24 |
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| 09:26 |
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| 09:27 |
jeffdavis |
is there a public URL for the google hangout? |
| 09:27 |
dbs |
trying to take collaborative notes for the hangout: http://goo.gl/oKo5yt |
| 09:28 |
jeff |
jeffdavis: possibly https://plus.google.com/111200315491429334571/posts/2akcZtqRtSx |
| 09:28 |
jeffdavis |
thanks! |
| 09:29 |
RoganH |
general discussion right now is about the future of the staff client |
| 09:30 |
RoganH |
discussion points include bringing in expertise who are more interface experts, how to stage out a new interface (and the huge challenges that involves), and the need to move away from xulrunner |
| 09:31 |
dbs |
by the way, anyone can edit http://goo.gl/oKo5yt (and please do!) |
| 09:34 |
dbs |
AngularJS to generate Dojo interfaces! |
| 09:36 |
jeff |
anyone with working wifi can edit it... working wifi seems to be in short supply. |
| 09:36 |
csharp |
dbs++ |
| 09:36 |
jeff |
even mosh is having a hard time making it through. |
| 09:36 |
rfrasur |
The idea of integrating comp sci dpmt at college/uni is a great idea. |
| 09:46 |
|
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| 09:49 |
jcamins |
Can I ask a non-hackaway-related question? |
| 09:49 |
rfrasur |
of course |
| 09:50 |
jcamins |
Does anyone have handy a link to the page where eeevil explained the uses of floating sections in queries? |
| 09:50 |
jcamins |
My Google-fu is failing me. |
| 09:51 |
eeevil |
jcamins: the {}-marked stuff? |
| 09:51 |
rfrasur |
We also had a compromised workstation that was killing our network that messed w/ EG (of course). |
| 09:51 |
jcamins |
eeevil: yep. That's the stuff. |
| 09:52 |
jcamins |
I'm trying to figure out if there is a use case which calls for it to include a regular-ish term like author:smith. |
| 09:53 |
csharp |
relevant xkcd: http://xkcd.com/979/ |
| 09:55 |
rfrasur |
If it's a web-based client, how would offline transaction things be handled? |
| 09:55 |
eeevil |
Dyrcona: re browser-based, all true, but for staff UIs we can prioritize our support |
| 09:56 |
jcamins |
Gosh IRC spillover from an in-person conversation is confusing. |
| 09:57 |
rfrasur |
jcamins: apologies. I'll tag it as hackaway from now on. |
| 09:57 |
eeevil |
jcamins: :) |
| 09:57 |
jcamins |
rfrasur: no, not at all. :) |
| 09:57 |
jcamins |
I'm just commenting. |
| 09:57 |
jcamins |
And actually, I'm following fine. |
| 09:58 |
rfrasur |
ok |
| 09:58 |
jcamins |
And I have what might be an answer for you. |
| 09:58 |
* rfrasur |
listens |
| 09:58 |
jcamins |
Use a real web browser for the staff client (i.e. Chrome or Firefox), and cache all transactions in IndexedDB until they've been acknowledged. |
| 09:58 |
* jcamins |
has been working on adding the start of that to Koha. |
| 09:59 |
eeevil |
jcamins: it's a little more complicated than that for EG, but that's where things seem to be heading |
| 09:59 |
rfrasur |
That makes sense. |
| 09:59 |
eeevil |
for the hangout, I'll point at this again (see the bottom half of my response): http://markmail.org/message/6cdbeupqc7w2ghi6 |
| 10:05 |
jcamins |
eeevil: it's more complex in Koha too, actually, since the server computes due dates/holds/etc., but at its most basic, that's how it works. |
| 10:05 |
paxed |
eeevil: re. your point about printing, i guess formatting that could be offloaded to the server, which would return image/pdf/whatever for browser to print. |
| 10:07 |
paxed |
(although i guess that doesn't solve page margin, etc. settings?) |
| 10:07 |
eeevil |
for the hangout, from the hangout chat: |
| 10:07 |
eeevil |
the thing about xulrunner is that it is a browser, so we can start doing browser-only today, inside xulrunner, as we remove xul UIs |
| 10:07 |
eeevil |
the staff client is hundreds of interfaces |
| 10:07 |
eeevil |
there is no cheap prototyping of "the staff client" |
| 10:07 |
eeevil |
but we can cheaply prototype individual UIs, though |
| 10:07 |
eeevil |
see, for instance, Jason Etheridge's alternate patron summary |
| 10:07 |
eeevil |
which is html-based |
| 10:07 |
eeevil |
heh ... thanks, mysterious speaker! |
| 10:08 |
eeevil |
right |
| 10:08 |
paxed |
[there really should be irc - hangout gateway...] |
| 10:08 |
eeevil |
I meant that as an example of a (relatively) cheap prototype |
| 10:08 |
eeevil |
acq |
| 10:08 |
* jeff |
grins |
| 10:09 |
eeevil |
I bet it's more than half by count |
| 10:09 |
|
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| 10:11 |
eeevil |
well, leaks or no, old dojo should be updated |
| 10:11 |
eeevil |
because then we get to keep most of /our/ code |
| 10:12 |
eeevil |
IE was the worst |
| 10:12 |
eeevil |
then FF |
| 10:12 |
eeevil |
chrome was the most rare |
| 10:13 |
jeff |
death to ancient dojo |
| 10:14 |
eeevil |
I have a crazy idea ... |
| 10:14 |
eeevil |
desktop-local server-like shim |
| 10:15 |
eeevil |
for offline, printing and workstation reg |
| 10:15 |
bshum |
ie-- #votes no |
| 10:16 |
rfrasur |
Personally, I don't care one way or the other for browser based or offline, but as far as my staff goes - even if I hide the stupid IE, they still won't use Firefox or Chrome. |
| 10:16 |
jeff |
client-local shim for receipt printing seems unavoidable. offline could be in-browser, and workstation reg probably needs more talking -- i think it could be done in-browser but a shim might be better for some libraries' use cases. |
| 10:16 |
rfrasur |
Unfortunately, a lot of people associate IE with the internet...they think it IS the internet...no matter what you say. |
| 10:17 |
eeevil |
jeff: it could be in-browser, but it may be easier to have a shim that does /all/ the hard stuff (assuming browser-based) |
| 10:17 |
eeevil |
QT is scriptable with ecmascript |
| 10:17 |
* eeevil |
ducks |
| 10:18 |
* jeff |
laughs |
| 10:18 |
eeevil |
once a browser has a feature that /other/ browsers have, it's baked in for a LONG time |
| 10:19 |
eeevil |
n=2 is basically feature consensus in the browser maker world (unless one of those 'n's is opera...) |
| 10:22 |
RoganH |
agreed |
| 10:22 |
eeevil |
9... |
| 10:22 |
eeevil |
gah |
| 10:22 |
jeff |
eeevil: feel old yet? |
| 10:22 |
eeevil |
jeff: shut up and get off my lawn, sonny |
| 10:23 |
eeevil |
heh |
| 10:25 |
eeevil |
fwiw, if qt were as mature in the xml+scripting area 9 years ago(and had a good html canvas back then) as xul+js was, I think it's likely we might have done that... |
| 10:25 |
eeevil |
but neither of those were true |
| 10:26 |
paxed |
koha seems to manage being browser-only? |
| 10:26 |
eeevil |
well, maybe not probably would have |
| 10:26 |
* jeff |
nods |
| 10:26 |
eeevil |
but it would have been a possiblity |
| 10:26 |
jeff |
paxed: with some frustration with IE/etc |
| 10:26 |
RoganH |
I said "probably" |
| 10:27 |
eeevil |
RoganH: fair :) |
| 10:27 |
jeffdavis |
my sense has been that koha is also somewhat less feature-rich than EG, but I dunno if that's actually true |
| 10:27 |
paxed |
jeff: IE frustrates everyone. |
| 10:27 |
csharp |
@karma ie |
| 10:27 |
pinesol_green |
csharp: Karma for "ie" has been increased 0 times and decreased 31 times for a total karma of -31. |
| 10:27 |
jeffdavis |
also dunno if that is at all attributable to being browser-based |
| 10:27 |
* phasefx |
would say different features |
| 10:27 |
csharp |
ie-- |
| 10:28 |
csharp |
phasefx: are you in the hangout? |
| 10:28 |
phasefx |
at least one koha offline solution is a firefox extension IIRC |
| 10:28 |
* eeevil |
makes idea even crazier ... the shim could be a xulrunner app with no UI |
| 10:28 |
phasefx |
I am, but am tied up on a phone call at the moment, so have it muted |
| 10:28 |
csharp |
ah gotcha - thought your ears might be burning ;) |
| 10:28 |
eeevil |
that just listens on a local socket (xulrunner can do that now) |
| 10:28 |
eeevil |
jeff: zackly |
| 10:29 |
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| 10:29 |
eeevil |
and to a drawer that holds money |
| 10:30 |
eeevil |
making a WS hard to blow away on accident (cookie, etc) is important, I think |
| 10:31 |
phasefx |
could make it less easy for staff to float around workstations and tie the workstation to the staff user |
| 10:34 |
eeevil |
the plugin can be the shim |
| 10:35 |
jeff |
plugin is just another kind of shim, imo. |
| 10:36 |
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| 10:36 |
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| 10:37 |
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| 10:37 |
jeff |
another option being discussed is client-side certificates, either for workstation registration or even user auth. |
| 10:38 |
jeff |
i think if supporseted it coshould be optional, and i think we'll run into issues where browser-side certificate enrollment is not well supported save for, say, firefox. |
| 10:38 |
eeevil |
I'd still feel better about offline via shim (outside the easily destroyed html5 local data area, I mean) |
| 10:39 |
eeevil |
and printing |
| 10:39 |
eeevil |
so, if you're going that far, might as well do WS reg in the shim |
| 10:39 |
eeevil |
(all assuming this is the path...) |
| 10:41 |
csharp |
Operation Cross the Streams |
| 10:42 |
bott_otr |
deXUL++ |
| 10:42 |
* phasefx |
would want to wire up the NES Advantage joystick to the staff client |
| 10:42 |
paxed |
i'm definitely supporting xul removal. |
| 10:42 |
csharp |
phasefx++ |
| 10:42 |
jeff |
XUL: It seemed like a good idea at the time. |
| 10:42 |
phasefx |
didn't live up to its promise |
| 10:43 |
rfrasur |
well, it seems like there really isn't much of a choice as far moving away from xul |
| 10:43 |
paxed |
i wonder how much it would take to create a working alternative, with bare-bones functionality... |
| 10:45 |
phasefx |
we have a bare-bone alternative now, if it's just checkin and checkout you want to do |
| 10:45 |
paxed |
oh? |
| 10:46 |
paxed |
not much of an alternative, if i didn't know about it. |
| 10:46 |
jeff |
phasefx: are you talking about bill's prototype, or something else? |
| 10:46 |
Dyrcona |
kmlussier: My dev vm is running the latest master + the development branches and my local hack branches. |
| 10:46 |
phasefx |
right, the modification of selfcheck |
| 10:46 |
kmlussier |
Dyrcona++ Thanks! |
| 10:47 |
jeff |
paxed: berick created a proof of concept which he demonstrated to me at the vancouver conference, simple checkout of barcode1 barcode2 barcode3, etc. |
| 10:47 |
phasefx |
berick: are jeff and I thinking of the same thing? ^ |
| 10:48 |
berick |
phasefx: i'm not sure which one yr talking about, actually |
| 10:48 |
paxed |
jeff: ok, so we should start bolting stuff on to it to make it a bit more useful. (patron reg &c really needed) |
| 10:48 |
eeevil |
e4x |
| 10:48 |
eeevil |
used in the marc editor |
| 10:48 |
eeevil |
heavily |
| 10:48 |
jeffdavis |
jinx! :) |
| 10:48 |
eeevil |
:) |
| 10:49 |
phasefx |
we're not using dojo to manipulate dom in xul documents that I'm aware of |
| 10:50 |
phasefx |
but we are using the fieldmapper-dojo stuff |
| 10:50 |
eeevil |
not in xul, right |
| 10:50 |
eeevil |
heh |
| 10:50 |
phasefx |
there are some xul interfaces using PermaCrud too |
| 10:51 |
rfrasur |
jboyer-isl++ #mobile opac awesomeness |
| 10:51 |
eeevil |
phasefx: yeah, but no UI, IIRC |
| 10:52 |
phasefx |
right |
| 10:52 |
Dyrcona |
phasefx: Gonna suggest a server-side app run via telnet? |
| 10:52 |
eeevil |
jcamins: I'm not finding much beyond our initial discussion, re {{}} |
| 10:53 |
phasefx |
Dyrcona: I'd love somthing like that, but wouldn't expect serious adoption :) |
| 10:54 |
dbs |
wart-based UI! |
| 10:54 |
paxed |
it's croak |
| 10:54 |
jcamins |
eeevil: that explains why I couldn't find it either. |
| 10:54 |
paxed |
-ing |
| 10:54 |
eeevil |
and step 0: update dojo |
| 10:54 |
eeevil |
dbs++ |
| 10:55 |
rfrasur |
dexulification as a word....too awesome |
| 10:56 |
eeevil |
websockets! |
| 10:56 |
dbs |
AngularJS is really well-suited to rendering UIs with minimal network traffic; one single-page app per client interface |
| 10:56 |
dbs |
the services could be websockets to make berick happy :) |
| 10:57 |
dbs |
recent Dojo?!?! HERESY |
| 11:00 |
* dbs |
notes that AngularJS is a framework largely built by Google |
| 11:01 |
paxed |
i'm not convinced upgrading to newer xulrunner will help in the long run. |
| 11:01 |
eeevil |
dbs: and dojo is heavily supported by IBM ... /me attempts to tug at dbs' heartstrings |
| 11:01 |
dbs |
paxed: testing required for _any_ approach, obviously |
| 11:01 |
paxed |
dbs: yeap |
| 11:01 |
dbs |
eeevil: great reason to go angular :) |
| 11:02 |
jeff |
i think what's being discussed is abandoning xul, then xulrunner, but at some point along the way we may support newer xulrunner before exiting it completely. |
| 11:02 |
eeevil |
ha! |
| 11:03 |
dbs |
Dyrcona: mozmill was one way to script XUL-based apps ages ago |
| 11:03 |
phasefx |
autohotkey |
| 11:03 |
paxed |
if i get the chance i'll try to pinpoint the xulrunner bug (as i think it is a xulrunner one) that causes the js not get the locale |
| 11:03 |
eeevil |
constrictor is coming back ... VM coming soon |
| 11:03 |
phasefx |
very difficult to use as a general testing framework, but possible |
| 11:04 |
jeff |
i'm inclined to forget testing the xulrunner staff client, and focus on testing and instrumenting the new web-based experiment. |
| 11:04 |
dbs |
jeff++ # thus selenium |
| 11:04 |
Dyrcona |
+elebenty!! |
| 11:05 |
bott_otr |
AngularJS example: function BeerCounter () on homepage. What more do you need? |
| 11:05 |
* phasefx |
thinks selenium would be great for testing web-based stuff.. horrified at the notion of putting selenium into xulrunner, if anyone is thinking of that |
| 11:06 |
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| 11:06 |
jeff |
phasefx: too bad. we're hacking on putting selenium into xulrunner RIGHT NOW. |
| 11:06 |
jeff |
(no, we're not) |
| 11:07 |
rfrasur |
jeff++ |
| 11:07 |
* phasefx |
falls over |
| 11:07 |
eeevil |
some of those UI challenges are old-dojo problems (or, very very likely) |
| 11:07 |
eeevil |
same with tpac, fwiw |
| 11:07 |
jeffdavis |
kmlussier++ |
| 11:08 |
eeevil |
(see: wai-aria in tpac) |
| 11:08 |
dbs |
eeevil: yep |
| 11:11 |
jeff |
i am amused at the idea of testing a receipt printer shim by printing a few hundred receipts to a bank of printers |
| 11:12 |
* dbs |
is torn between mobile catalogue and marc export |
| 11:13 |
dbs |
marque export, to be more canadian |
| 11:14 |
rfrasur |
nice |
| 11:14 |
Dyrcona |
:) |
| 11:16 |
berick |
dbs++ |
| 11:17 |
|
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| 11:18 |
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| 11:19 |
bshum |
maybe tomorrow, we can get phasefx on the big screen to do a rundown of QA stuff :) |
| 11:19 |
bshum |
(or others) |
| 11:19 |
dbs |
dojo and angular, fwiw, each have fairly well-integrated or closely associated test frameworks (Dojo = DOH, or at least used to be; Angular = Jasmine and Karma) |
| 11:20 |
* dbs |
half-raises a hand for mopac |
| 11:20 |
* dbs |
half-raises a hand for marc export |
| 11:21 |
jeffdavis |
Dyrcona: Sitka has some MARC export tools here - http://git.sitka.bclibraries.ca/gitweb/?p=sitka/sitka-tools.git;a=tree |
| 11:21 |
jeffdavis |
I didn't write that stuff and won't be in that hackaway session, but pointing it out in case it's of interest |
| 11:21 |
* rfrasur |
would like to hang out in the mopac |
| 11:21 |
jeffdavis |
http://git.sitka.bclibraries.ca/gitweb/?p=sitka/sitka-tools.git;a=tree;f=marc_export_custom |
| 11:22 |
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| 11:22 |
RoganH |
I'm going to sit in the staff client though I may be of minimal use |
| 11:22 |
rfrasur |
Ack, changed mind...also staff client. |
| 11:23 |
atheos_ |
. |
| 11:23 |
atheos_ |
............................................................................................................................................................................................................. |
| 11:24 |
atheos_ |
oops |
| 11:24 |
csharp |
ᗧ............................................. |
| 11:26 |
kmlussier |
Does anyone want to be in the hangout for mobile catalog? If so, I'll send you an invite. |
| 11:28 |
dbs |
kmlussier: hit me up, please |
| 11:28 |
atheos_ |
invite away |
| 11:28 |
|
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| 11:28 |
dbs |
I'll poke Dyrcona later on today to hopefully kick export ideas around :) |
| 11:28 |
bott_otr |
mobile catalog thought, via dbs: http://bit.ly/18v26yf |
| 11:29 |
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| 11:29 |
dbs |
I think my test server links are dead or at least no longer have that test CSS applied :/ |
| 11:30 |
dbs |
but I could probably get it back into shape |
| 11:31 |
bott_otr1 |
I'm pretty sure I burnt my VM with that work as well |
| 11:31 |
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| 11:31 |
eeevil |
bibtemplate! |
| 11:31 |
* eeevil |
ducks |
| 11:35 |
eeevil |
jeff: there's the fielder service |
| 11:35 |
dbs |
Mobile catalogue doc: http://goo.gl/1jCIQC |
| 11:37 |
jeff |
eeevil: thanks! every time i re-approach this kind of thing, i've missed a handful. |
| 11:41 |
dbs |
bshum / kmlussier : it's really hard to hear jason, as much as people can pour into the doc would be helpful |
| 11:42 |
jboyer-home |
EI's main mobile changes are at the bottom of http://evergreen.lib.in.us/css/skin/default/opac/style.css |
| 11:42 |
jboyer-home |
From the @media specification down |
| 11:43 |
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| 11:44 |
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| 11:45 |
eeevil |
berick: any chance of sharing your screen in the hangout? |
| 11:46 |
jeff |
eeevil: as you can probably hear, he's attempting to do that now. |
| 11:46 |
eeevil |
sorry for the derailing ... I'm just really jealous ;) |
| 11:46 |
csharp |
eeevil++ |
| 11:47 |
* phasefx |
is too :) |
| 11:47 |
rfrasur |
lol, secure permissions |
| 11:47 |
jeff |
this should get you into berick's PoC: admin/demo123 at https://dev198.esilibrary.com/ |
| 11:47 |
RoganH |
https://dev198.esilibrary.com/~berick/egstaff/circ.html |
| 11:47 |
RoganH |
that's the link |
| 11:48 |
berick |
back on |
| 11:48 |
rfrasur |
So this is the web-based staff client idea? |
| 11:48 |
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| 11:49 |
jeff |
rfrasur: this is a proof of concept that berick created back in April or so. |
| 11:49 |
rfrasur |
jeff: okay |
| 11:49 |
eeevil |
berick: does that thing use the permit/complete dance? |
| 11:49 |
berick |
eeevil: nothing does anymore. it's all .full |
| 11:50 |
berick |
rather, .full does it behind the scenes |
| 11:51 |
* phasefx |
likes the async circ notion, though there were folks who wanted the opposite early in EG's history |
| 11:51 |
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| 11:55 |
eeevil |
berick / jeff / et al: you folks need to remember to eat |
| 11:55 |
jeff |
eeevil: we were just handed lunch passes, and we are heading dining-hallward en masse in a few moments. |
| 11:56 |
eeevil |
cool |
| 11:56 |
eeevil |
RoganH: think we make this invite-only after lunch, and shut down for now? |
| 11:56 |
jeff |
lots of random-joiners to the hangout? |
| 11:56 |
jeff |
rogan's wandering the hallway on his cell phone. |
| 11:57 |
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| 11:57 |
phasefx |
my favorite was "brunswick georgia" |
| 11:57 |
eeevil |
jeff: seems so. if we'd thought ahead we shoulda created some shared circles |
| 11:57 |
eeevil |
I'm not against lurkers, but I'd rather give remote devs priority (he said selfishly) |
| 11:59 |
dbs |
eeevil: I _think_ a community manager can limit a hangout to the Evergreen G+ community (create an event, add a Hangout to it). If we get jerks from within our own community, well... :) |
| 12:00 |
eeevil |
dbs: /me joins ... s/if/when/ |
| 12:01 |
dbs |
fwiw, the mopac group was just inviting remote participants directly, which is the sanest approach for a small hangout methinks |
| 12:02 |
rfrasur |
+1 for closed groups |
| 12:21 |
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| 13:13 |
Rogan_Ni |
well, I want to start a hangout with the Evergreen community but as far as I can tell I can't, only with my circles |
| 13:14 |
rfrasur |
Can you just add people from your circles and then have anyone that's not in your circles request an invite? |
| 13:17 |
* rfrasur |
can get it going if you want |
| 13:17 |
dbs |
Rogan_Ni: are you an Evergreen community manager on the G+ community page? |
| 13:17 |
Dyrcona |
dbs: My initial plan for new marc_export: |
| 13:18 |
Dyrcona |
1. delete marc_export.in. |
| 13:18 |
Rogan_Ni |
Nope, I don't think I am. Maybe I could if I was. |
| 13:18 |
Dyrcona |
2. Add Marque.pm in support-scripts with the following subpackages in the file: |
| 13:18 |
Dyrcona |
Marque::Export |
| 13:19 |
Dyrcona |
Marque::Config |
| 13:19 |
Dyrcona |
Marque::FTP |
| 13:19 |
Dyrcona |
Marque::Email |
| 13:19 |
berick |
code for staff ui stuff i was looking at earlier -> http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/random.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/collab/berick/web-staff-ui-experiments |
| 13:19 |
dbs |
Rogan_Ni: I'll see if I can set you up. On the Community page, I just go to "Events" -> Create New -> Advanced option -> Hangout (online only) |
| 13:20 |
Dyrcona |
3. Make a link from $prefix/bin/Marque.pm to $prefix/bin/marc_export at install time. |
| 13:20 |
dbs |
and the default invitee list is "Evergreen library system" (the community) |
| 13:21 |
rfrasur |
dbs++ that's cool |
| 13:21 |
dbs |
Dyrcona: How much are you thinking of putting into the database? I think a big part of the slowness right now is calls from the client to the database to piece things together |
| 13:22 |
dbs |
Dyrcona: if we had the database doing the bulk of the work, that would / should speed things up; then we can just let the client Perl modules deal with XML vs. binary and STDOUT vs. email vs. FTP or whatever? |
| 13:23 |
Rogan_Ni |
I've set it up to start at 1:30 and invited the community |
| 13:26 |
rfrasur |
does it send out the invites at 1:30? |
| 13:26 |
kmlussier |
dbs: Let us know when you're ready for the hangout |
| 13:28 |
dbs |
kmlussier: cool, will do |
| 13:28 |
dbs |
I've added bshum, kmlussier, and Rogan_Ni as moderators of the Evergreen community; anyone else want "power"? |
| 13:28 |
dbs |
(per https://support.google.com/plus/answer/2870379?hl=en-GB ) |
| 13:29 |
* kmlussier |
already had the power as eg page admin. :) |
| 13:29 |
dbs |
kmlussier: right, I was just finding it annoying personally to have to switch to the EG page to then manage the EG community :) |
| 13:29 |
kmlussier |
agreed |
| 13:29 |
rfrasur |
... |
| 13:30 |
phasefx |
dbs: I'll take power. One day I will kill my other selves and be invincible |
| 13:30 |
rfrasur |
phasefx++ |
| 13:32 |
Rogan_Ni |
I just pulled from my personal Evergreen circle to add people. |
| 13:33 |
dbs |
kmlussier: okay, I'm alive |
| 13:33 |
rfrasur |
Rogan_Ni: nothing as of yet |
| 13:34 |
* dbs |
saw an invite from Rogan_Ni but avoided it |
| 13:34 |
eby |
is there a view only live url like youtube |
| 13:34 |
Rogan_Ni |
I see how it is, dbs doesn't love me |
| 13:34 |
rfrasur |
good |
| 13:34 |
phasefx |
I didn't see an explicit invite, but clicked on the hangouts tab and saw the session |
| 13:35 |
phasefx |
I think it went to my phone, harr :) |
| 13:35 |
eeevil |
berick: wha? |
| 13:36 |
dbs |
eby: we could set up a hangout on air, but that's in the advanced options and probably requires more knowledge of hangouts etc |
| 13:37 |
dbs |
eby: Also will be recorded, which could change participation modes. |
| 13:38 |
Rogan_Ni |
dbs: and I'd like participation to not worry about a complete recording of their language / humor |
| 13:38 |
berick |
eeevil: hm? |
| 13:38 |
|
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| 13:38 |
Rogan_Ni |
(nor a libel lawsuit from George Lucas in regards to the prequels) |
| 13:38 |
eeevil |
berick: what did you get running with dojo 1.9.1? EVERYTHINGGGGGGGGG?! |
| 13:38 |
rfrasur |
+1 |
| 13:38 |
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| 13:38 |
berick |
@quote add < Rogan_Ni> Star Wars |
| 13:38 |
pinesol_green |
berick: The operation succeeded. Quote #67 added. |
| 13:39 |
berick |
eeevil: ahh, no, i wish |
| 13:39 |
berick |
eeevil: just a slim set of fieldmapper stuff and some other test code |
| 13:40 |
eeevil |
ah. cool. so some custom module rewrapping |
| 13:40 |
tsbere |
Apparently hangouts doesn't like being logged in and active when the play store decides to auto-update it in the background. Go figure. |
| 13:42 |
eeevil |
senator: does your group have a hangout too? |
| 13:42 |
eeevil |
dbs: I can hear yours in the background of rogan's ;) |
| 13:42 |
eeevil |
but dunno where to go to see 'em |
| 13:43 |
eeevil |
Rogan_Ni: so, you're thinking about sane reflowwable layout |
| 13:43 |
Rogan_Ni |
eeevil: pretty much |
| 13:43 |
dbs |
eeevil: bshum just invited me directly |
| 13:44 |
eeevil |
dbs: gotcha |
| 13:44 |
jboyer-home |
for bshum, throw this in homesearch.tt2 (I think) |
| 13:44 |
jboyer-home |
<!-- the small-screen css hides search-wrapper on every page. This allows it to still appear on the home page --> |
| 13:44 |
jboyer-home |
<style type="text/css"> |
| 13:44 |
jboyer-home |
#search-wrapper { |
| 13:44 |
jboyer-home |
display: block !important; |
| 13:44 |
jboyer-home |
} |
| 13:44 |
senator |
eeevil: negative |
| 13:44 |
jboyer-home |
</style> |
| 13:45 |
senator |
we're working on serials, but are less focused than the other groups, participating also in mobile opac discussion and bug testing/merging for now |
| 13:45 |
berick |
eeevil: re, dojo, sort of. for the code I'm using, i had to do surprisingly little |
| 13:45 |
senator |
might lack enough cams |
| 13:45 |
berick |
i'm loading opensrf js directly (via script) and it all works find |
| 13:45 |
berick |
*fine |
| 13:46 |
eeevil |
rad |
| 13:46 |
berick |
the idl bits are a tiny subset. that's the only thing I punted on |
| 13:46 |
eeevil |
I wonder if it would be too presumptuous to talk about the websockets fixups for dojosrf so we can have streaming responses in this prototype... |
| 13:47 |
berick |
eeevil: i'd like to. my only concern is getting websockets running on the server side is non-trivial at this stage |
| 13:47 |
eeevil |
ah |
| 13:47 |
senator |
Dyrcona: your group seems real serious over there. can you ping me when you've got a second where you wouldn't mind an interruption? |
| 13:47 |
berick |
so it would limit who could test it.. |
| 13:48 |
rfrasur |
is the audio I'm hearing with regard to responsiveness the staff client discussion? or mopac? |
| 13:48 |
* dbs |
assumes Dyrcona is in a group of one :) |
| 13:48 |
phasefx |
rfrasur: I see you in the staff client one, fwiw |
| 13:48 |
jeff |
rfrasur: sounds like you're hearing us in staff client discussion |
| 13:49 |
jeff |
if there was talk of 800x600, that was us |
| 13:49 |
rfrasur |
well, that's where I am...but I just wanted to make sure that what's coming through the mic is the right thing...excellent. |
| 13:49 |
* tsbere |
broke his hangouts on his phone, but is interested in staff client stuff in some respects |
| 13:50 |
rfrasur |
tsbere: I'm not smart enough to relate what's going on. just pulling in bits and pieces. |
| 13:51 |
tsbere |
I am rebooting my phone, maybe that will fix it, but I don't know if I got any invitations to that one |
| 13:51 |
rfrasur |
when you're ready, let us know...we'll get you reinvited. |
| 13:52 |
jeffdavis |
http://foundation.zurb.com/ <- mentioned by jeff |
| 13:53 |
tsbere |
Woo, hangouts logged in again |
| 13:53 |
dbs |
Apparently I am going to spend this afternoon figuring out why new OpenSRF doesn't want to start on my laptop :/ |
| 13:54 |
dbs |
jeffdavis: foundation, bootstrap, yada yada :) |
| 13:54 |
eeevil |
re mobile-specific stuff, he says beating the horse some more, there's https://dojotoolkit.org/reference-guide/1.9/dojox/mobile.html |
| 13:55 |
dbs |
or not build in yet more dependencies on external projects when a few lines of CSS and shifting some HTML around keeps things nice and simple |
| 13:55 |
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| 13:56 |
jeff |
fwiw, foundation was first mentioned by dbwells. they used it on library.calvin.edu. |
| 13:57 |
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| 13:58 |
dbs |
Oh, ejabberd won't start. Not opensrf's fault. Bah. |
| 13:59 |
* phasefx |
lost audio to the staff client hangout :-/ |
| 13:59 |
* rfrasur |
did as well. logging back in to see if that fixes it. |
| 13:59 |
* dbs |
gets ejabberd running via "systemctl reset-failed ejabberd; systemctl start ejabberd" -- whee systemd! |
| 14:00 |
rfrasur |
nope |
| 14:00 |
jeffdavis |
RoganH: ^ ? |
| 14:00 |
RoganH |
eh? |
| 14:00 |
jeffdavis |
no audio on our hangout |
| 14:00 |
rfrasur |
we've got no sound. |
| 14:00 |
jeffdavis |
anything to be done on your end? |
| 14:00 |
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| 14:00 |
RoganH |
somehow it muted |
| 14:00 |
phasefx |
yay |
| 14:00 |
rfrasur |
all betta now |
| 14:01 |
dbs |
Hangouts mute themselves on whatever side they hear keyboard typing |
| 14:01 |
RoganH |
I was probably typing too much |
| 14:01 |
dbs |
Usually a helpful feature, but occasionally annoying :) |
| 14:02 |
eeevil |
dbs: I agree on less JS where css3 will do |
| 14:02 |
* tsbere |
apparently can log in, but not join hangouts, the latter due to a routing failure. BAH! |
| 14:04 |
eeevil |
I wish I could zoom in on just a portion of the feed from RoganH's laptop |
| 14:04 |
rfrasur |
woah |
| 14:04 |
eeevil |
RoganH: heh ... exactly... but it's washed out ... thanks, though! |
| 14:05 |
csharp |
cross_cut_editing++ |
| 14:05 |
eeevil |
csharp++ |
| 14:05 |
rfrasur |
Thanks for the attempt though |
| 14:07 |
eeevil |
berick / jeff: shall I do a little websocket server survey? |
| 14:07 |
eeevil |
berick: IO::Multiplex! |
| 14:07 |
* eeevil |
ducks |
| 14:09 |
eeevil |
jeff: I threw a pile of IO::MP at berick recently ;) |
| 14:09 |
jeff |
ah, then he should have been the one to duck. :-) |
| 14:09 |
dbs |
http://theory.biblio.org/eg/opac/record/97 |
| 14:09 |
berick |
eeevil: all options on the table :) |
| 14:11 |
jeff |
go wifi go! |
| 14:11 |
jeff |
wifi failing... coffee gone. tell our loved ones we loved them. |
| 14:11 |
rfrasur |
jeff: will do |
| 14:13 |
eeevil |
berick / jeff: interestingly, QT's implementation seems recently active and has the most green boxes on the wikipedia implementation-comparison page |
| 14:13 |
eeevil |
of websockets, that is |
| 14:24 |
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| 14:36 |
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| 14:44 |
phasefx |
jeff: mosh.mit.edu? |
| 14:45 |
jeff |
phasefx: correct |
| 14:45 |
phasefx |
cool |
| 14:52 |
* senator |
claims 0832 for queen and country |
| 14:53 |
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| 14:53 |
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| 14:54 |
krvmga |
has anyone tried to customize their snowball at all? |
| 14:55 |
krvmga |
add or remove things? |
| 14:55 |
krvmga |
for instance, i don't want "mandie" to get stemmed to "mand" |
| 14:56 |
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| 14:56 |
dbs |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNOBOL |
| 14:56 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Dan Wells] Serials: alert notes when receiving - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=471bb8b> |
| 14:56 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Remington Steed] Release notes for Serial alert notes - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=7b104fe> |
| 14:56 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Lebbeous Fogle-Weekley] Number upgrade script for serial alert notes - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=0165ac3> |
| 14:57 |
krvmga |
dbs: :) |
| 14:58 |
* phasefx |
remembers reading about SNOBOL, but never used it. Did use Icon |
| 14:58 |
* krvmga |
's first language was COBOL; at least it rhymes. |
| 14:59 |
eeevil |
jeff: eavesdropped on your mosh explanation ... juicessh for android makes it ever moar bettar |
| 15:00 |
krvmga |
anyway, i was going to make a change to the stemmer but i thought i'd ask if anyone else had done it and, uh, "gained experience" |
| 15:00 |
jeffdavis |
would there be an advantage to using dojo mobile if we are looking to upgrade to a newer dojo for other parts of EG anyway? |
| 15:01 |
jeff |
eeevil: nice. "Official Mosh support" |
| 15:02 |
eeevil |
and "via" ... for chaining connections |
| 15:02 |
jeffdavis |
I mean, if we want to get to the point of using dojo version X where X is the latest version... |
| 15:02 |
jeff |
excellent. i do that heavily with netcat currently. |
| 15:02 |
jeffdavis |
...then don't we sort of get dojo mobile for free once we're at that point? |
| 15:03 |
jeff |
jeffdavis: i've no idea/opinion on dojo mobile. simply haven't looked at it. |
| 15:04 |
RoganH |
@quote random |
| 15:04 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Quote #33: "< eeevil> `Twas brillig, and the slithy toves / Did gyre and gimble in pg_locks" (added by csharp at 02:05 PM, October 02, 2012) |
| 15:04 |
jeff |
i just installed juicessh on my nexus 7, which is still sitting in my backpack. truly, we are living in the future. |
| 15:06 |
eeevil |
heh |
| 15:16 |
jeff |
berick: pushed markup skeleton to collab/berick/web-staff-ui-experiments |
| 15:17 |
jeff |
berick: let me know if i'm way off base. it has no css styling and all divs are visible by default (even though the intent is for only certain ones to be visible at a time) |
| 15:17 |
jeff |
this feels very jspac-y, but i think we've acknowledged that already. |
| 15:19 |
bshum |
phasefx: Your commits from the future are freaking me out man :) |
| 15:19 |
phasefx |
haha |
| 15:19 |
dbs |
bshum: working/user/dbs/mobile_facets_down has a proof-of-concept commit at the tip |
| 15:22 |
phasefx |
bshum: alright, I should be in the same time stream now |
| 15:29 |
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| 15:30 |
RoganH |
I was probably typing too much |
| 15:30 |
RoganH |
@quote random |
| 15:30 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Quote #24: "<denials> when git doesn't kill you, it makes you smarter" (added by gmcharlt at 03:58 PM, May 03, 2012) |
| 15:30 |
rfrasur |
nice |
| 15:31 |
RoganH |
ignore me, I should probably go through quote by quote and will probably spam IRC doing so ... unless Anoop or Ben wants to get me an output from the server of all of them |
| 15:32 |
rfrasur |
doesn't bother me in the least |
| 15:32 |
RoganH |
let's see, I don't do the quotes much so syntax ... |
| 15:32 |
RoganH |
@quote 1 |
| 15:32 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Have you tried turning it off and back on again? |
| 15:32 |
RoganH |
@quote 2 |
| 15:32 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Down time is a fact of business when you're a poor 501c3 corporation. |
| 15:34 |
RoganH |
@quote get 3 |
| 15:34 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Quote #3: "<berick> doh" (added by Dyrcona at 11:24 AM, February 17, 2011) |
| 15:34 |
RoganH |
@quote get 1 |
| 15:34 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Quote #1: "<senator> much as a cancer would develop from chewing on uranium rocks ... but the tooth decay is lovely!" (added by gmcharlt at 11:22 AM, February 17, 2011) |
| 15:34 |
RoganH |
@quote get 2 |
| 15:34 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Quote #2: "<tsbere> We need more quotes" (added by berick at 11:24 AM, February 17, 2011) |
| 15:34 |
RoganH |
@quote get 3 |
| 15:34 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Quote #3: "<berick> doh" (added by Dyrcona at 11:24 AM, February 17, 2011) |
| 15:35 |
RoganH |
@quote get 4 |
| 15:35 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Error: There is no Quote with id #4 in my database for #. |
| 15:35 |
RoganH |
@quote get 5 |
| 15:35 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Quote #5: "<senator> the armenian regression sounds like a spy novel" (added by bshum at 03:44 PM, February 22, 2011) |
| 15:35 |
RoganH |
@quote get 6 |
| 15:35 |
pinesol_green |
RoganH: Quote #6: "<jeff> i meant to use that quote in my talk :)" (added by gmcharlt at 07:24 PM, April 29, 2011) |
| 15:35 |
jeffdavis |
RoganH: you can do the same thing via /msg pinesol_green |
| 15:35 |
bshum |
RoganH: Don't talk to pinesol too much, cause it'll begin to ignore you |
| 15:35 |
jeffdavis |
if you want to avoid spamming the channel |
| 15:36 |
rfrasur |
it's kinda entertaining |
| 15:36 |
RoganH |
that's why I grabbed a handful now, I'll grab more at another time |
| 15:36 |
RoganH |
bshum: exactly |
| 15:36 |
tsbere |
RoganH: For fun, leave the @ off when doing it in a PM. You get what amounts to complaints about being clueless, followed by the quote. ;) |
| 15:37 |
RoganH |
lol, right now there's an actual constructive reason for my gathering them but that's a tale for later |
| 15:37 |
* tsbere |
forgets what it is clueless about, and thinks it has changed recently, but still finds it amusing |
| 15:37 |
bshum |
RoganH: I can get you the flat DB file |
| 15:37 |
bshum |
For all quotes |
| 15:37 |
RoganH |
bshum: sounds good, I wanted to grab some samples to show what it would look like. once I get the file from you I can let folks vote on all of them. |
| 15:39 |
jeff |
http://dojotoolkit.org/documentation/tutorials/1.9/templated/ makes me a little frowny. |
| 15:40 |
jeff |
not least of which because it seems that each template is expected to be a distinct file |
| 15:43 |
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| 15:53 |
jeff |
berick: http://dojotoolkit.org/reference-guide/1.9/dojo/_base/lang.html#dojo-base-lang-replace |
| 15:56 |
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| 15:57 |
kmlussier |
esi++ #great hack-a-way spread |
| 16:01 |
rfrasur |
Can you send snacks through Google? |
| 16:02 |
rfrasur |
3D printing w/ EZ cheese or something. |
| 16:07 |
eeevil |
jeff: the way you spell attach points has changed, but the basics seem to be the same as before ... and we have some templateString stuff going on already, IIRC |
| 16:07 |
eeevil |
jeff: the idea, I believe, is that dojo will intern strings like templates when one builds a bundle |
| 16:08 |
jeff |
okay, i wondered -- and hadn't confirmed. |
| 16:09 |
eeevil |
jeff: I think the semi-magical "Translate" button uses templates pre-interned ... well, "uses" ... that is a messy widget |
| 16:09 |
rfrasur |
Okay all - hope you have a productive and fun evening. |
| 16:15 |
berick |
remingtron_: http://dev198.esilibrary.com/~berick/egstaff/index.html |
| 16:19 |
pinesol_green |
[evergreen|Chris Sharp] Fix typo in Makefile.ubuntu-precise. - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=96f23b7> |
| 16:31 |
jeff |
huh. |
| 16:31 |
jeff |
something seems to be blocking my mosh session to my irc host. |
| 16:31 |
jeff |
that's annoying. |
| 16:32 |
phasefx |
hangout gone? |
| 16:32 |
RoganH |
network just flaked out on me |
| 16:32 |
RoganH |
trying to reconnect |
| 16:33 |
phasefx |
you guys filled some NAT table somewhere :) |
| 16:34 |
RoganH |
up again |
| 16:35 |
jeff |
in my case, turns out it was someone on the host itself making a firewall change. :-) |
| 16:36 |
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| 16:40 |
phasefx |
hrmm, not sure how to get back on.. I don't like the "Calling 38 people..." dialog :) |
| 16:41 |
bshum |
Eh, just pick on someone specifically. |
| 16:41 |
RoganH |
Well, that's my evergreen circle I used to keep Elbonian scam artists out |
| 16:41 |
RoganH |
And that strange fellow hitting on Ruth earlier. He was very insistent she add him to her circles. |
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| 17:46 |
jeff |
Access to the guest network has been granted until 2013-09-18 17:46:10. Thank you for registering! |
| 17:50 |
atheos_ |
I've copied and edited a file into a templates_local destination, but my changes are not being recognized. any advice? |
| 17:51 |
atheos_ |
nevermind |
| 17:51 |
jeff |
atheos_: template toolkit? do you have a template dir defined in your apache config? |
| 17:51 |
jeff |
atheos_: neverminding! |
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| 18:13 |
bshum |
@later tell dbs Going to start merging various branches (lots of folks poking at things) tomorrow. Heading out to dinner now. |
| 18:13 |
pinesol_green |
bshum: The operation succeeded. |
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| 21:13 |
dbs |
bshum: I see your branch. Okay. One note: using a full column for the might-not-be-there cover image is pretty foolish going forward, so let's fix the search results markup. |
| 21:19 |
dbs |
That is, if we're going to offer up the option of including more details--including copie--in the results in the mobile version. |
| 21:20 |
dbs |
One could argue that "show the record page" == "more details" |
| 21:22 |
dbs |
Oh, bad nypl.bibliocommons.com - they do browser sniffing, so Firefox (either on desktop in "mobile" mode, or on Android) doesn't get mobile UI, but Chrome on Android does. |
| 21:24 |
dbs |
OTOH, I like that they just use text instead of icons for formats. No guessing (or bad icons) required |
| 21:28 |
jcamins |
dbs: it also fails on Opera Mobile emulator. |
| 21:29 |
jcamins |
It works on my iPhone emulator, but it has what looks like dummy data. |
| 21:32 |
* dbs |
looks at EG search results, which has one <tr> per hit... except if there are chilifresh reviews, in which case there are additional <tr> for each review, and thinks "that's not a very accessible design" :/ |
| 21:39 |
* jeff |
dusts off 1065378 |
| 21:39 |
jeff |
bug 1065378, even |
| 21:39 |
pinesol_green |
Launchpad bug 1065378 in Evergreen "Added content by record ID" (affected: 2, heat: 16) [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065378 - Assigned to Jeff Godin (jgodin) |
| 21:42 |
bshum |
dbs: Yeah, I was arguing with kmlussier about the "more details" button in the search results. |
| 21:42 |
bshum |
And maybe its' a good time to change all that. |
| 21:53 |
dbs |
I like the idea of stuffing "Limit to available" into the facet column. REFINE ALL THE THINGS. |
| 21:59 |
bshum |
dbs: That could be interesting. |
| 22:00 |
dbs |
Mmm. And maybe the facet block gets a <a name="refine_results"> anchor and a "Refine these results" button is just a simple <a href="#refine_results"> that jumps to the bottom in mobile mode, and is not displayed otherwise. |
| 22:01 |
dbs |
And then the width of the facets doesn't have to be so constrained |
| 22:02 |
bshum |
Sounds positive. |
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| 22:56 |
dbs |
bshum: pushed another commit onto working/user/dbs/mobile_facets_down that works more or less how I was thinking for facets -> refine this |
| 22:56 |
dbs |
I'll try rebasing it on top of your branch |
| 23:00 |
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| 23:18 |
dbs |
bshum: okay, pushed an additional commit onto the collab branch |
| 23:19 |
bshum |
dbs: Oh cool deal. |
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| 23:27 |
* bshum |
wanders off to bed for now. More tomorrow! |
| 23:27 |
dbs |
Have to say I find the change to font-size: 12pt pretty jarring in the transition if one is just resizing the browser. Particularly as we don't use pt units elsewhere |
| 23:27 |
dbs |
gnite |
| 23:31 |
bshum |
dbs: Yeah there's still hardcoded values in the css that I want to see changed over to variables. And then also in-line CSS that's in some of the places we've been working that need to be moved out and about. |
| 23:31 |
* bshum |
really leaves now :) |
| 23:32 |
jeff |
heh |
| 23:36 |
* dbs |
suspects the desire to have the mobile opac at 12pt is the same one that led to conifer setting the regular opac to 15px (pretty much the same as 12pt): 12px is just too small. |
| 23:40 |
dbs |
and bibliomation went with 14px, so there's that :) |
| 23:49 |
jeff |
hrm. grocery store in the morning or grocery store at midnight. not sure. |
| 23:49 |
jeff |
now would probably be better traffic-wise. |
