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IRC log for #evergreen, 2013-09-06

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
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07:36 eeevil @later tell csharp did I miss your thumbs-up on 2.4.2 smoke testing?
07:36 pinesol_green eeevil: The operation succeeded.
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07:48 eeevil jeffdavis: it's not backwards. given (A has_a B) the only side that can be null is the A side (you may have B rows that are not referenced by A rows).  you may want to test might_have there, if config.circ_matrix_matchpoint's column is nullable
07:49 csharp eeevil: you did miss my thumbs up, yes
07:49 eeevil csharp: ahh! good :)
07:49 csharp it was in the midst of a lot of chatter ;-)
07:49 eeevil in that case ...
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07:52 eeevil @later tell bshum would you like to do the honors of updating the downloads page for 2.4.2? the files are all in the preview dir still
07:52 pinesol_green eeevil: The operation succeeded.
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08:36 csharp @karma reports
08:36 pinesol_green csharp: Karma for "reports" has been increased 0 times and decreased 6 times for a total karma of -6.
08:37 csharp @blame reports season
08:37 pinesol_green csharp: It's all reports season's fault!
08:42 bshum eeevil: poking that momentarily.
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09:00 eeevil bshum: awesome, thanks!
09:01 bshum eeevil: Is there an updated readme file?
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09:07 pinesol_green [evergreen_website|Ben Shum] Downloads - Evergreen 2.4.2 release - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Ever​green_Website.git;a=commit;h=7908040>
09:08 * bshum waits for the inexorable install of asciidoc on my laptop
09:09 csharp bshum++
09:10 bshum Sigh, it's what I get for repeatedly wiping out my laptop for fresh reinstalls.
09:10 csharp I completely understand
09:13 rfrasur jboyer-isl: I'm going through some governance stuff for EG-IN and the lady from Cortelyou Consulting is listed as an SLA representative.  Do you know what SLA stands for?
09:14 csharp @load google
09:14 pinesol_green csharp: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
09:14 jeff first thing that comes to mind for me is the Special Libraries Association, http://www.sla.org/
09:14 csharp meh
09:15 rfrasur jeff: that's probably want it is.  TY
09:15 csharp or "service level agreement"
09:15 eeevil bshum: I don't think there was any README change... but it doesn't hurt
09:16 bshum eeevil: I just did a quick edit of the 2.4.1 version of the page to make it 2_4_2
09:16 csharp but in this context jeff is probably right ;-)
09:16 rfrasur csharp: I'm gonna go with Special Libraries.  Fewer implications.
09:16 jboyer-isl rfrsur: I think jeff is right. All I'
09:16 bshum I would re-run the file a little later, once things are done installing.
09:16 bshum But I think you're right that nothing changed
09:17 jboyer-isl m able to come up with is Softwre License Agreement, which is what non-MS companies use instead of MS's "EULA"
09:18 rfrasur :-)
09:18 collum http://indiana.sla.org/2012/07/valerie-cortelyou/
09:18 collum I'm guessing that's her.
09:19 rfrasur It is indeed (well, I've not seen her face, that I know of)
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09:25 rfrasur Hmm, kmlussier, what's a concise way to describe MassLNC?  Multi-consortia coordinating organization?
09:25 jeff superconsortium? :-)
09:26 rfrasur the one ring?
09:26 kmlussier rfrasur: Hmmm...I'm not sure I ever came up with a concise way of describing us. But I do like superconsortium.
09:26 kmlussier Makes me feel like I have superpowers.
09:27 rfrasur Okay...well, I'm putting it into an EG-IN exec email...so, you may forever more be known as a superconsortium if you don't say no in the next 30 seconds.
09:27 kmlussier Oh, wait, I have an about page that tells me what we are. a collaborative project among three Massachusetts library consortia
09:27 rfrasur hah!
09:27 kmlussier http://masslnc.cwmars.org/node/2098
09:27 * kmlussier really needs to update that about page.
09:27 * rfrasur was really looking forward to outing MassLNC as a superconsortium
09:28 jeff i think you all just like saying that word.
09:28 rfrasur duh :D
09:30 eeevil rfrasur: not that it really matters for your purposes, but "superconsortium" is a coined term (I coined it to talk about different ways that Evergreen and FulfILLment could be used) ... it's not in common use, of course (obviously), but let me find where ESI posted about that on the blog
09:32 rfrasur eeevil: I'd be interested to read more about FulfILLment anyway.
09:32 eeevil rfrasur: http://evergreen-ils.org/blog/the-everg​reen-superconsortium-the-next-stage-in-​the-evolution-of-evergreen-consortia/
09:32 eeevil rfrasur: bob molyneux talked about it a good bit
09:32 rfrasur cools, thanks.
09:33 eeevil http://www.web2learning.net/2​010/04/22/state-of-evergreen/
09:34 bshum superconsortium++
09:34 jboyer-isl Wile-E-Coyote, Super-Consort-Ium.
09:37 rfrasur kmlussier: The Mike in the email is Mike Rylander from Equinox, correct?
09:39 rfrasur eeevil: is that you?
09:40 kmlussier rfrasur: Yes, it is.
09:40 rfrasur rock on
09:41 kmlussier eeevil: Is that term trademarked? ;)
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09:44 dbs Preexisting use in the field of astronomy: "a superconsortium of astronomers" (2006) http://www.sciencemag.org/content/311/5760/453.1
09:47 * rfrasur is going to go do some work with a drill and a level now.
09:47 dbs Also apparently used in the library field back in 2001 if the citation from http://eprints.rclis.org/9321/1/KIRLI​DOG-BAYIR-FINAL-INTERNET-VERSION.pdf is correct
09:47 * kmlussier thinks it would be very cool to be part of a superconsortium of astronomers.
09:47 rfrasur <insert Tim Allen grunt>
09:49 paxed thanks for the email, kmlussier. i'll forward the email to others here... and i'll have to read eeevil's mail with some thought... but all that can wait for next week. :P
09:51 kmlussier paxed: Sounds good to me! :)
09:53 collum Also used as a word in 'China Review' 1921 http://bit.ly/18HR2IU
09:54 * collum wants to check the OED, but doesn't have a login.
10:00 dbs collum++
10:08 dbs collum: OED has no knowledge of superconsortium; looks like we can make a significant contribution! :)
10:13 collum dbs: I never actually thought of how a word becomes part of the OED, until now.  Something to look up later.
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10:16 dbs First you have to be a lunatic, second you have to live in an asylum...
10:17 kmlussier joined #evergreen
10:20 jeff_ ...and have shot a man?
10:20 jeff_ :-)
10:24 collum Ah!  The legacy of Samuel Johnson.  I don't think he was ever committed for his violence and lunacy.
10:25 senator nope. he lived pretty meanly until after his dictionary was published though.
10:27 jeff ah. i was making reference to Dr. W.C. Minor.
10:27 jeff which is who i thought dbs was referring to.
10:27 jeff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.C._Minor
10:28 collum gotcha
10:34 * csharp highly recommends "The Professor and the Madman" (known in the UK as "The Surgeon of Crowthorne")
10:35 csharp I understand there were efforts to make it into a TV miniseries
10:36 csharp collum: also, "The Meaning of Everything" by the same author
10:37 * collum has placed them both on hold. I had completely forgot about Minor. I'm claiming a finite brain that only holds so much information.
10:37 * eeevil reappears
10:38 eeevil dbs++ # you librarians and your research skills...
10:39 eeevil rfrasur: re "Mike in the email" ... I guess it is, but I'm not shur what email you're referring to
10:50 * rfrasur did not die on the rickety 8 foot wooden ladder though it was close.
10:50 rfrasur eeevil: regarding the icon project
10:52 eeevil rfrasur: ah, gotcha. thanks
10:53 rfrasur no worries.  I assume people can read my mind (since the NSA can read the whole internet...bah dum dum).
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11:05 ElliotFriend Hey, All! I'm looking at the "Local Administration -> Patrons with Negative Balances" screen, and nobody shows up. I know I have (at least a couple) patrons with overdue fines. Is there something to configure that I've overlooked?
11:06 rfrasur I think negative balances refers to people showing a credit in their account.
11:07 ElliotFriend rfrasur: the people that the library owes money to?
11:07 rfrasur well...maybe.  but yes.
11:07 ElliotFriend rfrasur: gotcha. That clears things up. Thanks!
11:07 rfrasur It can sometimes be a break down in process...so I wouldn't necessarily just start handing money out.
11:08 ElliotFriend rfrasur: fortunately, I won't be the one dealing with the patrons lol
11:08 tsbere At least one library I know of puts "forgive" money on volunteer cards for paying overdues with later.
11:08 rfrasur ElliotFriend :D
11:08 tsbere Or, for that matter, renting DVDs later if they accumulate enough
11:08 rfrasur tsbere: wow
11:09 * rfrasur would not want to deal with that....and how is that volunteering?
11:09 rfrasur I'm pretty sure our SBOA would lose their accounting minds.
11:09 tsbere Well, it isn't like they can get actual cash out of the deal. They just get waived fees as a "thank you" for volunteering their time.
11:10 tsbere "forgive" payments generate "you can't refund money they didn't pay!" warnings in the staff client ;)
11:10 ElliotFriend In light of my newfound understanding of "negative" balances, is there a quick/easy way to look at users with "positive" balances? like, patrons with overdue fines?
11:11 ElliotFriend I know I can get a report for that, but I'm just curious
11:11 rfrasur It's a gray area here.  As a person, I think that's awesome.  As a librarian beholden to state taxing stuff, I cringe.  We're not technically allowed to waive fines for board members, etc.
11:11 ElliotFriend rfrasur+
11:11 rfrasur ElliotFriend: "There's a report for that." I'm assuming that doesn't count, right?
11:11 * rfrasur chuckles
11:11 rfrasur @whocares reports
11:11 pinesol_green csharp, bshum and rfrasur hate reports
11:11 rfrasur wow, that's it?
11:12 ElliotFriend It does for me, my librarian similarly hates reports haha
11:12 tsbere rfrasur: For fun, fines aren't "state library" in this library. Fines are "nonprofit organization called the friends group" officially....
11:13 rfrasur tsbere: ahhhh...gotcha.  Here, they're revenue that's counted in our operating budget (so many things wrong with that...but yeah)
11:13 jeff wait, so are the fines tax deductible? :-)
11:13 rfrasur ElliotFriend: Seriously, I think you have to run a report for that.
11:14 ElliotFriend rfrasur: that's what I was figuring. Thanks!
11:14 tsbere jeff: That is an interesting way of looking at it.
11:14 rfrasur jeff: I can see it now - People purposefully racking up fines in November/December.
11:15 jeff please donate. it's simpler. :P
11:15 tsbere rfrasur: For added fun, I know of another library where the fine revenue is considered part of the *city's* budget. When fines went down the city demanded the library "fix" it because their budget depended on the fine revenue for other departments. >_>
11:15 eeevil hehe ... and then "finding" the books after they file their taxes
11:15 jeff (and doesn't tie up materials that others are waiting for)
11:15 jeff eeevil: evil.
11:15 rfrasur eeevil: exactly :D
11:15 rfrasur tsbere: that's WAY wrong.
11:16 eeevil tsbere: need an analog of red-light cameras...
11:22 collum tsbere: I'm just curious.  Is it just fines that go to the friends group, or is it fines, cost of lost items, etc.?
11:23 tsbere collum: Never asked. Fines yes. DVD rentals yes. Everything else no clue.
11:30 * rfrasur finally reads about superconsortia
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11:36 tony_ Would someone happen to know why ejabberd is not connecting?
11:38 tony_ I give the command osrf_ctl.sh -l -a stop all and I get the following error:::::::  Exception: OpenSRF::EX::Jabber 2013-09-06T15:34:32 OpenSRF::Transport::SlimJabber::Client /usr/local/share/perl/5.14.2/OpenSRF​/Transport/SlimJabber/Client.pm:150 Jabber Exception: Could not open TCP socket to Jabber server: IO::Socket::INET: connect: Connection refused
11:38 tony_ Do I have something wrong with my configuration?
11:42 jeff_ "connection refused" indicates that the jabber server is not running, or you have an incorrect hostname/port in your configuration.
11:43 rfrasur eeevil: That article did answer my question about whether a superconsortium, in terms of Evergreen, would be a fix or fluid entity.  The article describes a fluid entity.  I guess MassLNC could be a superduperconsortium.
11:43 eeevil rfrasur: yeah, in the "cooperating to get stuff done outside an ILS instance" sense, yep
11:44 eeevil I agree
11:44 eeevil (I wasn't trying to say, earlier, that your use was "wrong", just pointing out that the term's been used ... and, apparently, used for what you want to use it! :) )
11:44 rfrasur It's a good term.
11:45 rfrasur oh, no...I got that.  I like concise.
11:46 * rfrasur also doesn't mind being wrong....generally.  It's a good way to learn faster.
11:48 tsbere All three masslnc consortia are also part of a resource sharing group (that includes more than just the masslnc members, granted...)
11:50 rfrasur right, that's not unusual.  We have statewide reciprocal borrowing agreements as well as Indiana Share.  Probably similar, I'd imagine.
11:54 tony_ Jeff thanks for coming back to me... I've check my opensrf_core.xml a number time to ensure I was correct.  Is there another conf I should be concerned with
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12:02 rfrasur Holy Gmail spam filters, Batman!
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12:08 csharp tony_: what is the output of 'ps aux | grep ejabberd'?
12:10 tony_ Hi csharp I got: ejabberd  1392  0.0  0.0   7416   320 ?        S    11:53   0:00 /usr/lib/erlang/erts-5.8.5/bin/epmd -daemon root     15256  0.0  0.0   8108   920 pts/0    S+   16:09   0:00 grep --color=auto ejabberd
12:11 csharp tony_: when I run that command on a running test server, I get this: http://pastebin.com/2ZaajJnV
12:12 csharp so it's possible ejabberd is not fully up and running
12:12 csharp you could try restarting ejabberd?
12:12 tony_ I tryied that and get the error that I first posted and I get the error when trying to shut it down as well
12:13 tony_ I give the command osrf_ctl.sh -l -a stop all and I get the following error:::::::  Exception: OpenSRF::EX::Jabber 2013-09-06T15:34:32 OpenSRF::Transport::SlimJabber::Client /usr/local/share/perl/5.14.2/OpenSRF​/Transport/SlimJabber/Client.pm:150 Jabber Exception: Could not open TCP socket to Jabber server: IO::Socket::INET: connect: Connection refused
12:19 csharp tony_: what is the output of '/etc/init.d/ejabberd restart'?
12:19 csharp (as root)
12:20 tony_ csharp     Restarting jabber server: ejabberd is not running. Starting ejabberd.
12:20 tony_ as root
12:32 tsbere tony_: What hostnames are you using, and what does dig/ping return for those hostnames? Your host file may be incorrect, or if pulling from DNS may not be pointing at your server...
12:32 csharp okay - so ejabberd wasn't running
12:33 * tsbere finds that sometimes ejabberd won't start with the hostnames wrong
12:33 tsbere Or rather
12:33 tsbere It *will* start
12:34 tsbere But then stops about 10 seconds later
12:34 tony_ 127.0.1.2       public.localhost        public 127.0.1.3       private.localhost       private
12:34 tony_ also 127.0.0.1
12:35 tony_ This server is behind a firewall
12:44 tony_ Here is everything I get when I run the command:
12:44 tony_ opensrf@evergreen:/$ osrf_ctl.sh -l -a start_all OpenSRF Router not started, but PID file exists, removing file and starting Starting OpenSRF Perl Exception: OpenSRF::EX::Jabber 2013-09-06T16:43:39 OpenSRF::Transport::SlimJabber::Client /usr/local/share/perl/5.14.2/OpenSRF​/Transport/SlimJabber/Client.pm:150 Jabber Exception: Could not open TCP socket to Jabber server: IO::Socket::INET: connect: Connection refused
12:45 csharp tony_: if ejabber's not running, there's no point in trying to start opensrf, so I would suspect there's something amiss in /etc/ejabberd/ejabberd.cfg
12:45 csharp if so, you would probably see errors in the ejabberd logs too
12:46 tony_ csharp: I understand but it doesn't happen with I just ask for service ejabberd start  it only starts happening when I give the command for opensrf
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12:51 jeff tony_: has the hostname (as reported by "hostname" from the command line) changed since you installed and initially started ejabberd?
12:52 tony_ that could have changed because I'm doing this remote and my boss is onsite but he is away from the office right now
12:55 tony_ jeff: is it possible that the port could be wrong for loclhost: <servers>                     <server>127.0.0.1:11211</server>                 </servers>
12:55 jeff that appears to be your memcached port.
12:55 jeff unrelated to ejabberd.
12:56 tony_ trying anything at this point
12:56 jeff ejabberd is intolerant of hostname changes, unless you configure ERLANG_NODE in /etc/default/ejabberd before initially starting ejabberd.
12:56 jeff so if your hostname has changed, that's likely the cause of your ejabberd issues.
12:57 tony_ hmmmmm  let me look at that file and see what it is showing
12:59 tony_ jeff: this is what I got #ERLANG_NODE=ejabberd  ERLANG_NODE=ejabberd@localhost ERLANG_NODE=ejabberd@localhost ERLANG_NODE=ejabberd@localhost ERLANG_NODE=ejabberd@localhost ERLANG_NODE=ejabberd@localhost ERLANG_NODE=ejabberd@localhost
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13:02 bshum RoganH: I'm thinking for Kermit, he's a vendor looking to connect with a system and glean the shortnames off the system
13:02 bshum Rather than someone with access to the behind the scenes to see things out of the DB
13:03 RoganH I was wondering about that.
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13:16 csharp Kermit's probably confused as hell by now ;-)
13:16 csharp short answer: ask the library and have *them* ask us if they don't know
13:16 bshum csharp: That's more or less what we told him when he came asking us for shortname info for all our libs.
13:17 bshum To have the library working with them contact us.
13:17 csharp yeah
13:18 csharp in PINES, libraries all know their own and others' shortnames, but that's because of the way our courier services work
13:18 rfrasur that's similar to IN...other than we sometimes have to refer to the list since it's a long list to memorize.
13:20 RoganH bshum: pick a number between one and five
13:20 RoganH bshum: including one and five as possible values
13:22 csharp @dice 1d5
13:22 pinesol_green csharp: 4
13:22 RoganH 4 it is!
13:25 bshum Heh
13:25 bshum I stepped away to go chat with folks
13:30 eeevil aou is field_safe=true, so they could get the data programmatically
13:30 eeevil re Kermit
13:47 RoganH This is really unfair but when I see Kermit having problems I just want to sing "it's not easy being green"
13:47 bshum Hehe
13:48 rfrasur RoganH++
13:50 collum Now I have that going through my head.  I might have to combat it with   "It's a small world"
13:56 eeevil collum: you don't want to have any friends, do you?
13:56 eeevil must ... find ... antidote ... to ... small world
13:57 senator i thought i'd turn eeevil's comment from earlier into a practical example of how to use fielder, and may have exposed a bug
13:57 senator compare:
13:57 senator http://demo.evergreencatalog.com/gat​eway?service=open-ils.fielder&amp;me​thod=open-ils.fielder.cmf&amp;param={%22query%22:{%22id%22:{%22!=%22:null}}}
13:57 senator vs.
13:58 senator http://demo.evergreencatalog.com/gat​eway?service=open-ils.fielder&amp;me​thod=open-ils.fielder.aou&amp;param={%22query%22:{%22id%22:{%22!=%22:null}}}
13:58 senator (cmf vs aou)
14:04 jeffdavis jeff: do you have plans to keep working on that RESTful API project?
14:04 jeff_ i do.
14:04 jeff i do.
14:04 jeff but that's only one of us.
14:10 eeevil senator: huh... that's weird ...
14:10 senator hrm, .atomic variants of those methods both work
14:10 senator for the gateway, as opposed to the translator, there's no session for a request, right?
14:10 senator must be that. not sure whether that's a bug or just a... subtlety
14:11 rfrasur (600 library card sign up forms folded, sorted and on their way to be put in elementary school Friday folders...time for granola)
14:11 eeevil there's always a session, it my just not be persistent
14:11 eeevil or, ... huh
14:12 eeevil arg ... THE RABBIT HOLES
14:13 pinesol_green [evergreen|Ben Shum] Fix some bad break syntax - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=a9ea03b>
14:19 phasefx I didn't think we were still using that almost-JSON-with-comments thing anymore
14:20 phasefx just the old gateway/ producing it?
14:23 phasefx yeap, osrf-gateway-v1 does the __c:__p thing
14:26 jeff_ correct.
14:39 rfrasur kmlussier and yboston - is the focus of the DIG hackaway documentation for 2.4?
14:39 rfrasur and if I put "Boston area" as the location, is that accurate enough?
14:40 yboston to be honest I had not thought about it. By November EG 2.5 five should be out
14:40 yboston so we will want to focus on 2.5
14:41 yboston rfrasur: I just realized why I had to be the one to propose dates last time, because I was hosting people at Berklee, and I had to check the availability of my conference room
14:42 yboston rfrasur: you might want to run by me the dates that work for you, so I can cross check with my conference room, if I am to again host folks on my campus
14:42 yboston rfrasur:  we can continue talking by email
14:43 rfrasur okay, sounds good.
14:43 kmlussier yboston, rfrasur: If the Berklee conference room isn't available, I know C/W MARS is willing to offer meeting space. I suppose that could qualify as Boston area too.
14:44 rfrasur alright, for the time being, I'll just put Boston area.  That can be refined a little later.
14:45 yboston kmlussier: good to know
14:46 eeevil senator: re your examples above, osrf-gateway-v1 works for the failing request ... weird but true :)
14:49 senator interesting
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15:58 rfrasur ah yeah.  30 minutes and this director will be vacating
15:59 kmlussier rfrasur: Have a great vacation!
16:00 rfrasur Thanks :D.  It's gonna be a chill at home vacation...which pleases me well good.
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17:28 bshum @later tell kmlussier Did anyone ever test having the 246 alternate title show up as part of browse search?  Apparently this doesn't seem to be a presently indexed entry.
17:28 pinesol_green bshum: The operation succeeded.
17:28 bshum My guess is just tossing it in as another custom index, like variant title or whatnot would do the trick.
17:29 bshum @marc 246
17:29 pinesol_green bshum: A form of the title appearing on different parts of an item or a portion of the title proper, or an alternative form of the title when the form differs significantly from the title contained in field 245. (Repeatable) [a,b,f,g,h,i,n,p,5,6,8]
17:30 bshum Course it makes me wonder what metabib index 4 is for title:alternative
17:30 bshum mods32, sigh
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22:53 pinesol_green [evergreen|Chris Sharp] The ILS User reports source branches to an All Hold Requests linked source - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=31b58d1>
23:07 pinesol_green [evergreen|Steven Chan] LP1183553 - Default filter option for configuration screens - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=c06c262>
23:07 pinesol_green [evergreen|Pasi Kallinen] LP1183553 (continued) - Fix applied filters - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=160d864>
23:19 bshum Calling 0825
23:23 pinesol_green [evergreen|Jason Etheridge] reset title variable when looping with biblio A/T - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=8562d2c>
23:23 pinesol_green [evergreen|Ben Shum] Stamping upgrade script for biblio A/T title variable fix - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=46a7817>

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