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IRC log for #evergreen, 2013-06-10

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

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09:00 mmorgan1 Possibly not the best Monday am topic, but I'm looking for some detail on 2.3 client memory leaks related to printing. Does it matter what you print? How often? Does clearing cache help?
09:02 csharp mmorgan1: the only way I know of to clear the memory leak is to either exit the client completely and re-open it or to reboot
09:03 tspindler mmorgan1:  We have not been able to pin down exactly any sequence of events that cause it.
09:03 tspindler mmorgan1:  I think Galen and others figured it out by remotely logging into some of our member libraries pcs while the client is running
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09:05 tspindler mmorgan1:  it is clear thought that our member libraries with the highest circ activity have the biggest problems,  I know its not just running a pull list
09:05 mmorgan1 csharp: tspindler: thanks. Does it seem to affect all workstations that do any printing at all? Or do some workstations that print not seem affected?
09:06 tspindler mmorgan1:  we have seen it primarily with circ computers not cataloging like spine lable printing
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09:12 mmorgan1 tspindler: ok, interesting. Could be related to the volume of printing being done, or maybe the type of data being retrieved for printing, or maybe the type of printer.
09:12 mmorgan1 just thinking out loud
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09:22 dbs_ Could be that the receipt templates create lots of DOM nodes with dangling references that never get resolved (thus leak), versus spine labels that (maybe) get created and fully destroyed
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09:28 paxed what's the best/suggested way to upgrade a db ... can i just run the numbered upgrade sql scripts manually via psql?
09:29 Dyrcona paxed: Are you upgrading master or a tarball'd release?
09:29 paxed master
09:29 Dyrcona Then, yes, just run the numbered upgrade scripts in order.
09:29 Dyrcona I usually do it with a for loop on the command line.
09:30 paxed and if it's complaining about :eg_version?
09:30 Dyrcona -v eg_version=null
09:31 Dyrcona on your psql command
09:31 paxed ah. null. ok.
09:31 Dyrcona You could set it to anything, really. I just use null.
09:40 tspindler mmorgan1: could be correct
09:48 mmorgan1 tspindler: dbs: something related to the receipt templates makes sense. seems a likely place for a problem.
09:50 tspindler mmorgan1:dbs: Jim was also saying that it might be related to Windows and how it handles printing not releasing memory and not as much to do with Evergreen.  I'm not sure.  I don't  know enough tot say that.
09:51 tspindler pardon the emoticon, typo
09:51 paxed should perhaps rig a quick test that repeatedly calls the printing routines, and just closes the print window or something
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11:34 csharp @loves csharp
11:34 pinesol_green csharp loves supybot plugins; virtualization; lasagna; logs; clarity; all y'all; upgrades; tpac; git; this venue; google; and not being evil
11:34 Ruth you're a very loving person
11:34 csharp @hates
11:34 pinesol_green csharp hates dojo_hold_policies_interface; SIP; when libraries purchase third party products without testing and blame Evergreen for it not working; reports; the fact that the Base Filters is unnecessarily greyed out when applying an Aggregate Filter and vice versa; and evil
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11:51 Ruth @loves vacation
11:51 pinesol_green Ruth: vacation doesn't seem to love anything.
11:51 csharp Ruth: do '@love vacation'
11:51 Ruth @love vacation
11:51 pinesol_green Ruth: The operation succeeded.  Ruth loves vacation.
11:51 Ruth @loves
11:51 pinesol_green Ruth loves vacation
11:51 Ruth @love vacation a lot
11:51 pinesol_green Ruth: The operation succeeded.  Ruth loves vacation a lot.
11:52 Ruth @loves
11:52 pinesol_green Ruth loves vacation; and vacation a lot
11:52 Ruth excellent
11:52 Ruth ty
11:52 csharp :-D
11:52 Ruth @hate being a director sometimes.
11:52 pinesol_green Ruth: The operation succeeded.  Ruth hates being a director sometimes..
11:53 csharp I'm being asked by one of our libraries if they can get jacket images via RSS feed or similar - anyone know?
11:53 Ruth as far as I know...no.  generally, that's a vended service
11:53 Ruth I suspect someone could build something...but it'd be onerous and possibly illegal.
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11:56 csharp Ruth: you're probably right about that - my mind was on the technical without considering the legal ;-)
11:56 Ruth technically...it could absolutely be done.
11:56 * csharp halts his multiple torrent streams of pirated DVDs
11:57 Ruth I should care more about the legality of stuff.
11:57 gmcharlt http://blog.librarylaw.com/librar​ylaw/2008/08/book-jackets--.html
11:57 Ruth the only reason I don't torrent is because of virus issues
11:58 csharp gmcharlt: thanks
11:59 Ruth EG related...it looks like in the reports interface (don't throw things), the folders appear to be in order of date of origination..or something.
12:00 Ruth is there a way to have them list in alphabetical order?
12:00 csharp I believe there's an open bug on that
12:00 Ruth I'll take a lil look
12:02 Ruth I'm wondering how appropriate it'd be to offer booby prizes to patrons who make us question how much we REALLY want to work in the library.
12:03 jcamins Ruth: I think you'd use up your notions budgets within the day.
12:04 Ruth I think you're right
12:04 * Ruth stops notioning
12:06 rfrasur @hate mouthy teens
12:06 pinesol_green rfrasur: The operation succeeded.  rfrasur hates mouthy teens.
12:08 rfrasur csharp: I found the bug
12:09 rfrasur How do I add my two cents to it?
12:10 gmcharlt rfrasur: first thing, if you don't already have one, is to register an account on Launchpad; after that, you can add comments
12:11 rfrasur gmcharlt: that's all?
12:11 gmcharlt yup
12:11 rfrasur awesome
12:12 gmcharlt for you, we'll not require the usual jumping through flaming hoops trial
12:12 * paxed is still a bit singed
12:12 rfrasur hmm, ty.  dragging a little after the weekend (not the partyingest person but still throwing a party...)
12:13 * rfrasur didn't have to drink to feel like a trainwreck
12:13 rfrasur But, if need be, we can do flaming hoops next week.
12:16 gmcharlt rfrasur++ # good sport ;)
12:16 * csharp wears flameproof clothing to work
12:17 rfrasur hmm, with 2.3 in operation and 2.4 rolling out...is it worth commenting on 2.2 issues that have a low priority?
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12:21 rfrasur flameproof clothing++
12:22 csharp rfrasur: what's the bug link/number?
12:22 rfrasur https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1065581
12:22 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1065581 in Evergreen "Reporter Shared Folders Do Not Sort Logically" (affected: 2, heat: 10) [Low,Confirmed]
12:23 csharp rfrasur: I would definitely comment since there hasn't been a fix in later versions (as far as this says)
12:23 rfrasur okay - that's what I was wondering
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12:36 paxed what's ULS?
12:48 jihpringle paxed: if it's in an acquisitions context it's probably United Library Services (a Canadian book wholesaler)
12:53 paxed it seems to be in the URL verify
12:53 paxed 'Allows a user to process and verify ULSs'
12:53 paxed or is it supposed to be URLs perhaps?
13:13 kmlussier paxed: I suspect it's a typo. :)
13:13 paxed yea, i figured.
13:13 paxed i shall go an inflate my bug reporting statistics then.
13:18 mrpeters rfrasur:  that bug is probably bitesize for someone good with perl
13:20 mrpeters thoughts on adding a bitesize tag?
13:23 mrpeters http://pastie.org/8031202 might even be the code block
13:28 paxed "Allow a user may view another user's transactions"   ... that sounds a bit awkward?
13:33 akilsdonk_ kmlussier: I'm now seeing my new docs in the dev/master version documentation, but not in 2.4.  Are you seeing the same with your acq documentation?
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13:34 mrpeters is update_db.sh broke in master?
13:34 mrpeters postgres@egdev:/home/opensrf/Evergreen/Open-ILS/src/sql/Pg$ /home/opensrf/Evergreen/build/tools/update_db.sh localhost evergreen evergreen
13:34 mrpeters /home/opensrf/Evergreen/build/tools/update_db.sh: line 59: eg_config: command not found
13:34 mrpeters ERROR: Could not determine Evergreen version from eg_config.
13:35 mrpeters nevermind....opensrf
13:35 kmlussier akilsdonk_: I'm seeing the same thing. My acq docs aren't showing in 2.4
13:36 akilsdonk_ kmlussier:  thanks.  I'll keep looking into it.
13:36 kmlussier akilsdonk_: I think dbs found another error last week when trying to convert the asciidoc from root. He put a fix in, but I wonder if the fix made it into 2.4. Let me check.
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13:38 kmlussier akilsdonk_: This was the fix he made to master. http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=c​ommit;h=96c877ea56afaf59927859eb63ad4ddd2172d0db. I don't see it in 2.4. That might be the problem.
13:38 pinesol_green [evergreen|Dan Scott] Fix Latin-1 encoding that broke doc output - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=96c877e>
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13:39 akilsdonk_ kmlussier: ah, I see.  I don't see that in 2.4.  I'll cherry pick it and hopefully we will have all of our documentation tomorrow.
13:39 kmlussier akilsdonk_++
13:40 akilsdonk_ kmlussier: thanks for helping me figure this out (and where I need to be careful with asciidoc)!
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15:30 pinesol_green [evergreen|Angela Kilsdonk] Documentation for MARC Import Remove Fields - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=01c0600>
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16:18 pinesol_green [evergreen|Angela Kilsdonk] Documentation for Binary MARC21 Feeds and search enhancements - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=badc728>
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16:37 csharp @whocares reports
16:37 pinesol_green csharp and bshum hate reports
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16:49 bshum Callender: bug 1189617 is quite "fun"; happens for us quite a lot due to fractional slowness from using virtualized bricks instead of bare-metal.  The tiny difference means all the world when you only have 6 seconds :(
16:49 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1189617 in Evergreen "retarget.all option when checking in an item times out" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1189617
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16:58 bshum And of course also for really popular items with lots of holds.  But blah, blah I say!
17:01 bshum dbwells: I'm removing m1 as an active milestone target in Launchpad for now.  Not sure how you want to handle all the bugs quite yet.  Might have a conversation more on that later.
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17:09 dbwells bshum: Thanks.  Any more thoughts on the Launchpad "maintenance" account idea?  I'd like to move all uncommitted m1 bugs to m2, so this would be a good opportunity to use it.
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18:47 rfrasur So, a director in EG-IN brought up on the listserv a mobile app staff client as a book mobile tool.  What say y'all?
18:56 dbs I say, lots of work for something that a laptop could do (given connectivity and power, which are pretty trivial)
18:56 rfrasur dbs: that was my take as well.
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18:56 rfrasur I think they're real issue is not the ils.  It's their internet...and that's not something EG can fix.
18:57 rfrasur they want something that can run off a phone or ipad...because they think running through a laptop or desktop makes the internet slower.
18:58 jeffdavis A very simple app for checkout/checkin and a couple other basic functions wouldn't necessarily be too difficult, but I expect they'd find they want something more feature-rich pretty quickly.
18:58 rfrasur let me look at the email real quick
19:00 rfrasur it looks like they're just wanting it for check-in/check-out...but like you said, I think they'd find they wanted more than that.
19:04 rfrasur It'd be nice if it was polite to just tell everyone that they can have whatever they want if they pay for it.
19:05 rangi it isnt?
19:05 * rangi rewrites almost all his emails ever
19:05 rangi :)
19:05 rfrasur rangi++
19:05 rfrasur I still have kids in school.
19:06 rfrasur When they're out, I'll whatever I want
19:06 rangi :)
19:06 rfrasur hmm...I'll ___ whatever I want?
19:06 rfrasur freudian slip
19:16 jcamins rfrasur: I'm writing an offline circ mode for Koha that will work on a tablet.
19:17 rfrasur jcamins: I was just wondering if that's something that couldn't help them.  My only concern would be checking acct status.  I've not worked on a bookmobile, but I have to imagine it's a smallish and regular patronage.
19:18 rfrasur so could possibly be checked before going to the field.  I dunno.
19:18 jeffdavis We have (or had) at least one bookmobile that was using offline circ in that way.
19:18 rfrasur jeffdavis: Was it successful?
19:19 jeffdavis It seemed to work for them.
19:19 jeffdavis We were generating nightly blocked patron lists which I imagine helped somewhat. I don't think we ever got much feedback from them either way.
19:19 rfrasur well...no news and all that
19:20 rfrasur the nightly blocked patron list is a good idea
19:21 jcamins rfrasur: the idea is that any items that you are checking out from a bookmobile have to be *in* the bookmobile, so that takes care of item availability, and presumably offline circ has some sort of patron account information.
19:22 jeffdavis /openils/bin/offline-blocked-list.pl
19:22 rfrasur it doesn't for EG.  It just captures their barcode number (for good or ill)
19:23 jcamins Oh, one of Koha's offline circ methods is like that.
19:23 jeffdavis ^ I'm not actually sure how the output of that script gets used by offline circ though.
19:23 rfrasur it'd be a nice thing for EG.  As it is, once we upload offline transactions, we have to then go through the failed transactions and figure out what's what.
19:24 rfrasur jeffdavis: I'm not sure how to use that.
19:27 jeffdavis rfrasur: We have a nightly cronjob that runs that script, and then a second cronjob that copies the output file from our util server to our servers that run Apache.
19:28 jeffdavis Ctrl-F "blocked patrons" on this page for an example: http://www.open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku​.php?id=evergreen-admin:cron_services
19:28 * rfrasur is merely a librarian.
19:29 rfrasur I only understand the end product...and that's a tenuous understanding.
19:30 rfrasur But, I'll take your word that it works...and I suspect it could be run from the reports interface manually (or perhaps recurring).
19:31 jeffdavis Sorry, that was overly jargon-y. It's not actually a report so I don't think you could run it from the reports interface.
19:32 rfrasur no worries.  no...but I think a report could be built that'd essentially do the same thing.
19:32 rfrasur not as elegantly perhaps...but messy is alright so long as it's accurate
19:33 jcamins The trick is how you use it if it's not automated.
19:33 rfrasur lol, you write it on a post-it note and promise yourself to look at the post-it note and obey the post-it note.
19:33 * rfrasur complies with post-it notes
19:34 jcamins I meant, how do you use the account information?
19:35 rfrasur I suspect you'd have to carry around the spreadsheet in an encrypted format and manually refer to it.
19:35 rfrasur the spreadsheet...being the output of the report.
19:37 rfrasur of course, I'm envisioning just explaining this process to my employees.
19:37 * rfrasur is thankful to not have a bookmobile at this moment.
19:38 jeffdavis An advantage of the cronjob-based approach is that you can just do Admin > Download Offline Patron List in the client when you have an internet connection, and any blocked patrons will be prevented from checking stuff out when you scan their barcode in the offline circ interface (I think).
19:38 jeffdavis So more complicated setup, but easier to use than a spreadsheet.
19:40 rfrasur jeffdavis: It must have worked, and definitely easier than a spreadsheet (or a pad of paper...or...yeah), but that highlights another issue in Indiana (and everywhere).
19:41 rfrasur We have a lot of SMALL libraries w/ little to no technology staff in the majority.  Larger libraries are overwhelmed by their own tech needs...and why should they do something for a lib that's not paying them?  I dunno how to get the right people where they need to be at the right time doing the right thing.
19:42 rfrasur I mean, even if you're talking about a library with enough resources to have a bookmobile, odds are it's flying (driving) by the seat of its pants, and is staffed by regular library personnel...and yeah.
19:43 rfrasur odds are they don't have a jeffdavis on staff
19:44 rfrasur or jcamins
19:45 jcamins rfrasur: that's why I'm working on the offline circ and not someone at the library with the bookmobile.
19:45 rfrasur jcamins++
19:45 * rfrasur will find out more tomorrow in Indianpolis.
19:46 rfrasur or Indianapolis...whichever
19:47 jeffdavis rfrasur: my employer (BC Libraries Coop) has an IT assessment project underway, where we're compiling IT best practices for our libraries (which are mostly small rural public libraries) and sending some staff around to help implement them.
19:49 jeffdavis No public documentation of the project yet, but yeah, that is a real issue for sure.
19:49 rfrasur jeffdavis: I've heard some very good things about BCLC.  I'm not sure why it seems like we're lumbering along when comparable (or seemingly comparable) groups are moving ahead.
19:50 rfrasur I hope there'll be some documentation at some point.
19:50 rfrasur of the public variety
19:50 jeffdavis It sounds like there should be, but that project is not my bailiwick. Feel free to bug my boss about it! ;)
19:51 rfrasur no way.  If the project is moving forward, there's no way I'd throw any type of wrench in it.
19:51 * rfrasur will wait.
19:52 rfrasur and I'm wondering if I might be overly concerned about EG-IN.  Again, I'll find out tomorrow.
19:52 * rfrasur is going to meet with people that know stuff re: EG-IN
19:55 rfrasur are Koha and Evergreen related in any way?
19:56 jcamins rfrasur: they're two open source ILS projects.
19:57 jcamins And they share a few bits of code.
19:57 rfrasur lol, that I know.  But beyond that...was any of the code for Evergreen based off....
19:57 rfrasur that's what I was getting at.
19:58 jcamins There's shared code in the QueryParser and SIP.
19:58 rfrasur I'm assuming that's a pretty small amt. tho, right?
19:59 jcamins Yeah.
19:59 jcamins And there's some overlap in people.
19:59 jcamins gmcharlt is currently RM for Koha.
20:00 rfrasur yeah
20:00 jcamins And I'm #evergreen's principle showtune quoter, I think.
20:00 rfrasur showtunes++
20:02 rfrasur how's your translating coming along?
20:03 jcamins Are you talking about the Russian posters? If so, it's going well enough. I don't translate Koha or EG though. Not really that fluent.
20:03 jcamins (and I'm a Koha developer not EG developer, in case I hadn't made that clear)
20:03 rfrasur ohh, I thought it was you that was.  must be paxed
20:04 jcamins Yup.
20:04 jcamins :)
20:04 rfrasur nope...wasn't clear...but now it is.  Good to know.
20:04 rfrasur In that case, it's coming along very well, I'm sure.
20:04 jcamins I was RM for Koha 3.12.
20:04 rfrasur What version is it on now?
20:05 gmcharlt 3.12 was released in May
20:05 gmcharlt 3.14, to be released in November, is what's being worked on now
20:05 rfrasur :-)
20:06 rfrasur and yeah, I'm the person that asks the question THEN goes to the easy-to-find website that explains it all.
20:08 rfrasur I'm wondering why there isn't a bigger discussion about these kind of things in library school.  I mean, they're tools that only libraries use (as far as I know), but it was only touched on in the briefest way...and Evergreen mostly because I happened to work in an EG library at the same time as I was in the class.
20:08 jcamins There's really not a whole lot of knowledge about FOSS software in the library world.
20:09 jcamins And what there is tends to be rather alarmist.
20:09 rfrasur but, I'd think that libraries should be the ones on the forefront of it.
20:09 jcamins You would think that.
20:10 * phasefx doesn't even know if they talk about FOSS in computer science classes these days
20:10 rfrasur It just makes no sense to me.  Shouldn't the people who are supposedly the best at handling information (because, that's our job, yes?) be looking at all the ways to do it?
20:10 jcamins Yes.
20:10 rfrasur phasefx: that just blows my mind
20:11 phasefx well, it's been forever and a decade since I last went
20:11 rfrasur Even if someone is going to work for a proprietary software development company...FOSS is the best way to practice and create something useable and useful.
20:11 rfrasur jcamins: yes...there's that as all.
20:11 jcamins It is indeed.
20:11 phasefx choirboy here
20:11 rfrasur as well
20:12 * rfrasur is thoroughly unimpressed
20:12 rfrasur well, I'm impressed with y'all
20:12 gmcharlt to be fair, some library schools do use Koha in coursework
20:12 rfrasur but that's about it
20:12 gmcharlt and maybe one (?) has used Evergreen
20:12 rfrasur gmcharlt: do you know which offhand?
20:12 jcamins gmcharlt: that is true, but as a profession...
20:13 gmcharlt jcamins: yeah, don't get me started :)
20:13 * gmcharlt joins the choir
20:13 jcamins Palmer, Mizzou, and others who I don't work with.
20:14 gmcharlt rfrasur: UBC, I believe
20:14 rfrasur I'll take a look at them.  I know that IU generally doesn't, and I have to wonder if it isn't because of their own systems...and how to you put any type of stock in OSS if you're shelling out millions for proprietary stuff
20:14 gmcharlt (that is, using Evergreen)
20:14 rfrasur gmcharlt++
20:15 gmcharlt UIUC used/uses Greenstone (F/OSS digital repository software) in coursework
20:15 rfrasur of course, I should have known THAT w/o asking.
20:16 rfrasur I've worked very briefly w/ Greenstone (at IU, even).
20:16 jeffdavis gmcharlt is correct about UBC using EG in library school classes.  Some library tech programs in the Vancouver area have also done so.
20:17 rfrasur meh.  If everyone could just get along and not worry about the bills and all that...
20:17 gmcharlt jeffdavis: I thought that would get your attention! ;)
20:17 jeffdavis :)
20:17 jcamins Oh, there's one somewhere in western Canada that uses Koha.
20:18 rangi shirley lew used both Koha and Evergreen in one of her classes, i forget the uni she works at
20:18 rangi it cost me chocolate tho
20:18 rangi :)
20:19 rfrasur rangi: Shirley Lew is just generally cool, and paying in chocolate is just nice.
20:19 * rfrasur looks around for developers who prefer payment in chocolate.
20:19 jcamins She's the one I was thinking of.
20:19 jcamins She's in BC, isn't she?
20:19 rfrasur yeah
20:20 rfrasur I think she works w/ Tara
20:20 rfrasur or at least close
20:20 rangi same city
20:20 rangi but not the same place
20:20 rfrasur right
20:20 rfrasur jcamins: who do you work for?
20:20 jcamins rfrasur: myself.
20:20 * rfrasur laughs
20:21 rfrasur I was honestly hoping you'd say that
20:21 jcamins C & P Bibliography Services provides Koha and cataloging services.
20:21 rfrasur (impertinent questions deserve whatever answer is forthcoming)
20:21 rfrasur hmm, that's pretty legit cool
20:24 jcamins Yep. The cataloging is the most fun, of course.
20:24 rfrasur I used to like cataloging before administering got in the way.
20:25 rfrasur It's too hard to concentrate anymore.
20:25 rfrasur but it's pretty relaxing when the opportunity presents itself.
20:29 rfrasur free trials to databases just remind me how much awesome stuff is out there that we can't afford.
20:30 rfrasur (but maybe we CAN)
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